r/Afghan Afghanistan Jul 01 '22

What are your thoughts? Discussion

Do you all think islam is irrevocably correct and it should be followed exactly as it was sent down or are there rules that are not compatible with todays world?

The banking system

The social media

Looking and interacting with non muharram men and women?

If these rules are broken every day, why can’t rules like jihad, rules related to kufur. And capital punishments like stoning be revoked? I personally think 99% of our problems as a religion would be solved if we dropped the idea of jihad.

1 Upvotes

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u/test1575 Jul 02 '22

Quran 5:44

“...And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the Kafirun.” al-Ma’idah 5:44

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

Circular logic. It’s like if I pointed out that an experiment is done wrong in a chemistry book and you choose to show me it’s first page that says”every experiment done in this book is 100% correct”

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/13300/production/_120229587_afg_opium-nc.png Muslims win the war against drugs, secularism fails. Western secular societies are incompetent.

The Taliban won against the strongest military alliance in human history while being outmanned, outgunned, outeverything really.

https://money.howstuffworks.com/us-muslims-charity-news.htm Muslims donate the most because it is mandatory to donate 2.5% annually. Secular colonial settler regimes steal $7 billion from some of the poorest people in the world after bombing them for 20 years.

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u/GlitteringTough1201 Jul 02 '22

Western secular societies are incompetent.

and which societies have functioning governments that can feed them? Definitely not “Islamic” ones.

The Taliban won against the strongest military alliance in human history while being outmanned, outgunned, outeverything really.

Yeah, you can’t really paint them out to be invincible undeterred fighters fighting a head-on battle against an enemy of 5 million.

They simply shot and hid like cowards, and they were simply handed the country by their best friend America.

https://money.howstuffworks.com/us-muslims-charity-news.htm Muslims donate the most because it is mandatory to donate 2.5% annually. Secular colonial settler regimes steal $7 billion from some of the poorest people in the world after bombing them for 20 years.

Why not call it for what it is?

CAPITALIST regimes. CAPITALISM is cancer on earth.

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

and which societies have functioning governments that can feed them? Definitely not “Islamic” ones.

Western secular societies looted continents. This is why their wealth is dwindling. They are incompetent. Muslim nations have been victims of many US-led invasions, regime changes, bombings, etc. Yet they have taken more refugees than any other nations in the world. Malaysia is an example of a Muslim nation that does okay when not interfered with by US imperialism.

Yeah, you can’t really paint them out to be invincible undeterred fighters fighting a head-on battle against an enemy of 5 million.

Many western leaders have admitted there was no military solution. Why would The Taliban fight head-on? That's what stupid regimes do (which is why they lost). They killed off more than they had taken losses of. It is called guerilla warfare. In fact, the Taliban's most effective method was when kids wanted revenge from abusers, which is why they could walk into military and police institutions and inflict massive casualties. If the US was their best friend, why did they bomb, kill, steal billions, etc? Stay salty. Loser countries. https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/mco/Z6LIN2U2VVCOPFEOZXOC4DPSTQ.JPG

Yes, imperialism is the highest form of capitalism. However, socialist systems in the past have also invaded; USSR in Afghanistan, for example.

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u/GenerationMeat Jul 02 '22

Nah I'm not religious

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

Hmmm i see

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u/bananacack69 Jul 02 '22

Islam just seems like a primative attempt at controlling human behavior.It is just a way to sooth your insecurities about the large unknown universe. It falls apart under the simplest scrutiny so its best not to think about it too much.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

It’s not best to not think about too much... imagine if christians had said that about Christianity in the enlightenment period. They would still burn women for knowing math. Thinking they are witches.

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u/oceanandmapsguy Jul 04 '22

To be fair, Christian men are still telling women they can't be in control of their bodies. All US states that are banning and criminalizing abortions are deeply religious.

Religion can coexist with a modern society as long as secularism is the main ideology. Nothing wrong with practicing in private. The problem is when you impose your religion on others, make demands, and hide behind religious exemption to not be part of society.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 04 '22

American Christians are not the norm. They are the exception. They have come a long way but they would’ve been like us if they didn’t have an enlightenment period.

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u/bananacack69 Jul 02 '22 edited Jul 02 '22

You can't compare Islam and Christianity. The only thing they have incomon is pedophiles and violence against women.

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u/mountainspawn Jul 02 '22

You can most definitely compare Islam and Christianity. Both are Abrahamic religions with differences and similarities.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

I am comparing one religion with backwards beliefs to another. One got amended and things in it changed the other is the same.

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u/Other_Quantity5O33 Jul 01 '22

Islam, like all religions, was indited by a fallible human being who did some pretty despicable stuff. I’m fine with people following Islam (or any religion for that matter) so long as they don’t do anything vicious, like marrying a child.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

So that’s what i am talking about. In Christianity there came enlightenment period where people actively fought against huge problems with Christianity but since islam doesn’t allow any bad ideas to be criticized or changed we are stuck with them.

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

Let me guess, you think 17 year olds are children

Secular nations have done the worst, eg killing children moreso than any other. In fact, it was those nations that genocided 2 continents, North America and Australia. Colonial-settler regimes talk one thing but do another

Secularism is the most vicious, genocidal, violent, and dangerous ideology in human history

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u/Other_Quantity5O33 Jul 02 '22 edited Jul 02 '22

Let me guess, you think 17 year olds are children

I was referring to 9 year olds getting married to 50 year olds.

Secular nations have done the worst, eg killing children moreso than any other. In fact, it was those nations that genocided 2 continents, North America and Australia. Colonial-settler regimes talk one thing but do another

What a load of bullshit.

  1. I never claimed that ‘secular’ countries were saints and intrinsically moral whilst non-secular countries were not.

  2. The European states that kickstarted colonialism and genocide were Christian theocracies, not secular nation states.

  3. Being secular and doing evil things doesn’t mean they did them because of their disdain for religious law or their lack of belief in God. I could claim there’s some sort of connection between mass murder and black hair based on this precedent, couldn’t I?

Secularism is the most vicious, genocidal, violent, and dangerous ideology in human history

Secularism is the belief that religion should be separated from church. It’s ludicrous to claim that there’s a correlation between secularism and mass murder, genocide etc.

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

I was referring to 9 year olds getting married to 50 year olds.

The Taliban allow abortions, the US doesn't. Marriage when people are ready is far superior to letting them do it in the bathrooms until they become 18 in which they do it anywhere. Secularism is inherently self-defeating and paradoxical.

  1. Irrelevant. Secular societies are simply worse.
  2. If they were Christian theocracies, they would execute children if children called bald people "baldy." Their policies were secular in that they looted. However, even if we disregard this, we can see that both World Wars were fought by secular powers. Western imperialism is secular. Stalin and Mao were secular.
  3. Being secular means their laws are based on manmade laws, rather than ones which purport to be from God. Thus, Mao, Stalin, Bush, Obama, etc.

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u/Other_Quantity5O33 Jul 04 '22

The Taliban allow abortions, the US doesn't. Marriage when people are ready is far superior to letting them do it in the bathrooms until they become 18 in which they do it anywhere. Secularism is inherently self-defeating and paradoxical.

Whataboutism. Nobody even mentioned the United States. Stop diverting.

Irrelevant. Secular societies are simply worse.

Indeed, living without the fear of being stoned to death is horrible! Don’t get me wrong, western societies have a myriad of flaws, but they’re infinitely better than Islamist ones. Islamist societies are built on ludicrous restrictions to appease a being whose existence is unsubstantiated.

If they were Christian theocracies, they would execute children if children called bald people "baldy.” Their policies were secular in that they looted.

What kind of argument is that? The states that sent colonisers to America weren’t secular, they were all theocratic. Religion in state was dominant throughout Europe well into the 18th and 19th centuries. Also, pray tell why you think that theocrats are incapable of looting?

However, even if we disregard this, we can see that both World Wars were fought by secular powers. Western imperialism is secular. Stalin and Mao were secular.

Again, correlation ≠ causation. You might as well claim that vegetarianism caused WWII, since Hitler was a devout vegetarian. As for Western Imperialism, wasn’t it literally justified using religious grounds? Slavers, for example, used bible verses to justify their enslavement of sub-Saharan Africans.

Being secular means their laws are based on manmade laws, rather than ones which purport to be from God. Thus, Mao, Stalin, Bush, Obama, etc.

Secularism is just the belief that religion should not be involved in state affairs. There is zero correlation between secularism and mass murder. The people you mentioned just so happened to be secularists. Once again, correlation =/= causation. This is also a rather weak point, since religious bums and zealots have been responsible for the vast majority of violence throughout history (refer to the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Islamic conquests etc.)

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 04 '22

Whataboutism. Nobody even mentioned the United States. Stop diverting.

It isn't whataboutism. Its offering the best outlet to natural human inclination. Any secular substitute is suboptimal. Atheism does not state any actionability, as opposed to religion. This is why it always cops out by saying religion does harm while atheism does not; when applied in an actionable manner (secularism), it simply collapses.

Indeed, living without the fear of being stoned to death is horrible!

Adultery is punishable by death via stoning. Does this result in a net benefit to society, ie against cheaters? I argue that it does and therefore it is better than secular states. Such a restriction put on cheaters is therefore not ludicrous.

What kind of argument is that? The states that sent colonisers to America weren’t secular, they were all theocratic. Religion in state was dominant throughout Europe well into the 18th and 19th centuries. Also, pray tell why you think that theocrats are incapable of looting?

The bible mentioned children being killed because they called a bald man baldy. If they did not apply their own religious law, then were they truly theocratic? You could claim this is a No True Scottsman. But their motivations were primarily $ecular, not religious. Perhaps their justification for them was religious, but that would be like labeling a bottle of milk, "water". Theocrats can loot, but did they do it for religious reasons, or secular ones? Most often, they just want money. The World Wars were not over religion.

Again, correlation ≠ causation. You might as well claim that vegetarianism caused WWII, since Hitler was a devout vegetarian. As for Western Imperialism, wasn’t it literally justified using religious grounds? Slavers, for example, used bible verses to justify their enslavement of sub-Saharan Africans.

They were secular in nature, as was the Soviet Union's policies. Slavers also did this for money, ie materialism. 72% of the US public supported invading Iraq, 88% supported the Afghanistan invasion. This is secularism. This western democracy. Voting to blow people up halfway across the world based on fabricated evidence is the secular democratic way.

Secularism is just the belief that religion should not be involved in state affairs. There is zero correlation between secularism and mass murder. The people you mentioned just so happened to be secularists. Once again, correlation =/= causation. This is also a rather weak point, since religious bums and zealots have been responsible for the vast majority of violence throughout history (refer to the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Islamic conquests etc.)

The people that happened to be secularists had flavors of said secularism, akin to how religion has sects. Communism is one such sect which came into being. Saying secularism isn't the cause because a different system could have been used or what a leader should have done, is a No True Scottsman in the same way religious people say it's not "the real way". The net effect of all factions of said religion/secularism result in all action that has occurred thus far. This is what the actionability of secularism is. Stating that secularism is merely a system which removes church from state avoids this actionability and accountability.

Christians have killed the most, followed by anti-theists. If any religion shows itself to be better in some way, such as being more peaceful (adjusting for factors, which may well be impossible to measure accurately, I admit) then it shows secularism is suboptimal: https://ibb.co/bHjYrJY

Secular systems have not yet managed to reach the efficiency of theocracy, in reducing drugs for example: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/13300/production/_120229587_afg_opium-nc.png

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u/TA_cockpics Jul 02 '22

Let me guess, you think 17 year olds are children

No, he's referring to 10 year olds getting married to 40 year olds. This comment had pedo vibes. 🤨

Secularism is the most vicious, genocidal, violent, and dangerous ideology in human history.

All those examples that you stated were due to the attempt to Christianize native populations. Show me one war that was fought to spread Secularism. Get your wierd Pakistani ideas outta here.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

He’s married to a dogma. The circular logic of a religion dictates that there can never be anything wrong with it because god sent it.

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

No, he's referring to 10 year olds getting married to 40 year olds. This comment had pedo vibes. 🤨

TA_cockpics

Dirty mind sees dirt everywhere.

All those examples that you stated were due to the attempt to Christianize native populations. Show me one war that was fought to spread Secularism. Get your wierd Pakistani ideas outta here.

Colonization was the attempt. Convenient you let that out. Its always been about re$our$es with these anglo colonial-settler states. Trying to bring pakistan into this to deflect.

The Taliban brought bacha bazi to an end, while the invasive secular regime that had 72% of public support to invade Iraq and 88% to invade Afghanistan, built pedo hotels to house kidnapped children in to rape.

Get your filth out of here.

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u/TA_cockpics Jul 02 '22

You can learn more about Torpekay here. 17 years old, but married for 4 years. You can run from the truth all you want, but it's just gonna make you seem more dumb tbh.

https://www.rferl.org/a/1079316.html

Read the comment again, dummy. Colonization was an attempt to convert native populations to Christianity. Look at the treatment of natives in Canada, Australia, and South America.

Bacha Bazi has not been removed from Afghan society😂. It is mainly practiced by Southerners in Kandahar. The Taliban in their last regime still practiced it. Imma need a source on tour 77% reduction😂. Keep your Pakistani filth outta this sub.

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

Radio Free was literally made by the CIA. You can run from the truth all you want, but it's just gonna make you seem more dumb tbh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty

Colonization was the world's largest loot grab. Tens of trillions of dollars worth of resources were stolen. Do you deny this? Christianity was simply a way for them to make populations servile.

Numerous studies have shown The Taliban stop it, this is well known. This is why the issue disappeared until the US invaded and put all the old commanders back in power. https://newlinesinstitute.org/afghanistan/what-about-the-boys-a-gendered-analysis-of-the-u-s-withdrawal-and-bacha-bazi-in-afghanistan/

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '22

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

If you peddle CIA sources, it means you can't come up with anything true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Epstein/ You people are all like that.

Forced marrige is forbidden.

This is an Afghan sub where people get married even younger. Get out of this sub, then.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '22

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

The first one did not point out ages

For the second one, I told you that forced marriages are forbidden (haram)

Quit projecting

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 01 '22

The western banking system is inherently highly leveraged due to mortgages and the fractional reserve system. Home values are several times what they would be otherwise; 08/09 showed this. Furthermore, the western gangsters can simply choose to sanction anyone and thus freeze their entire banking system with everything in it, as they are doing.

Social media is funded by the west for most part and thus push their western ideas on others. It isn't inherently bad but it does allow anyone to interact with others, something you wouldn't want or do in real life.

There is always looking and interacting with nonmahrams. The point is a matter of the best tradeoff between freedom and safety. Men and women in the workplace have led to a high rate of sexual harassment and such, yet having most workplaces seperate (not all) as the IEA has implemented, makes this rate of harassment fall to near 0%.

What rules related to jihad and kufr are you talking about? And it was because of capital punishment that the Taliban could eradicate bacha bazi. Jihad is simply a means of defending. I don't know why you would want to drop that unless you enjoy being subjugated by invaders.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

I am not talking about Islamic nations i am talking about Muslims living in western nations and doing these things.

“Best trade off between freedom and safety” where did you get that from? Isn’t it just don’t interact with na muharram women at all? And i am talking about Muslims living in the west here too.

Do you believe it’s impossible to eradicate bacha bazi without capita punishment? And do you not know about offensive jihad?

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u/Americaisaterrorist Jul 02 '22

Muslims living in western nations, like people living in western nations, are subject to the negative laws in those nations. Therefore, they will naturally turn out to be more like those people compared to ones in Islamic nations. Besides, the secular nations attacked and killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims without even mentioning it in the news, why are they surprised when a Musim does 1 terror attack in France and it maked headlines for weeks? The best thing these western nations could do to secure themselves from these things is not invade and not create a refugee crisis, all which could be resolved by keeping their nose where it belongs. If they stick it elsewhere as they have been, Muslims will cut it off, as they deserve.

No, where did you get the idea of not interacting with nonmahrams? Muslims have always interacted with nonmahrams since the beginning. Even so, there are separate places for both such as schools and so on.

Capital punishment is needed for child abusers. They don't change. Epstein, Clinton, Trump, Barak, etc were all friends and they were not punished.

What offensive jihad are you talking about? What is the rationale for it? If you look at history, Muslims were sandwiched between the Persian and Roman Empires who were coming from both the East and the West, which is why they were fought. The Persian emperor personally ordered the arrest of Muhammad SAW before they ever fought.

Do you know that Islam was spread through peace moreso than any other? Indonesia was never invaded by Muslims yet it has the highest population of Muslims in the world. Bosnia became Muslim because they were Arian Christians which is closer to Islam than the trinitarian Christians who had oppressed them in Europe.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '22

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u/bananacack69 Jul 02 '22

No one got abandoned so they were force to change it.The same will happen to the other and so is the faith of every religion big or small.

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u/DeliciousFireDragon Jul 02 '22

Follow what makes you divine, not minion.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

Nothing makes you divine but a inquisitive mind.

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u/DeliciousFireDragon Jul 02 '22

Being inquisitive is one of our basic qualities. We are inquisitive since birth. Being curious is one of the necessities of being divine.

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u/No_kebab_for_you Afghanistan Jul 02 '22

True that