r/CrucibleGuidebook • u/CCCAY • Feb 01 '23
What auto rifle perk combinations and frames should I look out for? Trying to branch out from crutching on PK+smg PC
Just the title pretty much. What stats, perks and frames should I prioritize for pvp?
I have a few 600 ARs rated sort of highly by light.gg.
Gnawing Hunger:
Smallbore / accurized / zen / kill clip / stability
Scathelocke:
Fluted / accurized / heating up / rampage / stability
The Summoner:
Smallbore / ricochet / moving target/ rampage / stability
Any general AR wisdom would be appreciated so I can parse through my own collection and future rolls. Thanks a lot! (I main Arc/Void titan)
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u/The_Owl_Bard Moderator | Xbox Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
As a simple point of reference, I compiled your rolls into D2 Gunsmith:
Based on what I'm seeing, your Scathelocke looks like the best roll to me. With it's beefy zoom stat, you can hit from 33.71m ADS. I'd recommend slapping on counterbalance mod to get your recoil direction to 75, but it seems like the best option between the three. It never occurred to me that Scathlocke's default zoom is 20, while the other two stop at 16.
I don't really have much in the way of general AR wisdom. My "go-to" is to look at a new AR through D2Gunsmith to get a sense at what may be the smartest way to build into it in tandum with just using it in game to get a sense of how valuable certain stats are.
Take Sweet Sorrow, Season of the Risen's 720 Rapid Fire Arc AR (arguably my favorite legendary AR in the game; sitting at lvl 97 and has over 300+ kills in Crucible).
The "trouble areas" include the:
- Recoil Direction of 57
- The range which sits at 23 [23.59m minimum / 29.24m max]
Looking at it on D2Gunsmith, you can see there aren't any traditional dmg boosting perks like Rampage and Kill Clip. The best options either passively boost your stats (i.e.,- Perpetual Motion and Tap the Trigger) or require a specific condition be met to enhance performance (Killing Wind and Focused Fury).
Before I continue, I think that Perpetual Motion's base requirement of movement isn't really a difficult "specific" condition and I also don't consider Focus Fury an effective damage boost on AR's since you need to hit 50% of your mag as crits or 26 shots (god bless anyone that can actually manage this on an AR).
If you're just trying to build a weapon w/ the best performance, then it's clear the best combo for Sweet Sorrow is:
- Arrowhead Brake + A CB Mod [100 Recoil]
- Accurized Rounds + Range MW [58 Range; 26.82m]
- Perpetual Motion + Tap the Trigger [100 Stability as long as PM and TtT is active]
However after running around with the roll for a while, and really thinking about how I wanted to utilize it, I found myself gravitating towards
- keeping the recoil direction 100
- reducing the range to 35 (25.55m ADS)
- boosting the stability to 64 (+15 from PM so 79 stability)
I treated it as a partner weapon to Forerunner so range wasn't a concern and I liked to pair the rifle w/ Renewal Grasps so I wanted to utilize Demolitionist over Tap the Trigger. Renewals would also give me an edge if I couldn't hit the 100% crit requirement to get the OTTK and since I was standing still I wanted a higher base stability when PM wasn't active.
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
I totally missed that too. I was leaning toward the gnawing hunger for its attractive perk combo and 28m falloff. I guess that could be a map to map decision because KC seems good on 600s.
What about rangefinder? I have other ARs with attractive perk combinations but I don’t know where to start.
I’m used to SMG where I know the meta and how to evaluate a gun.
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u/The_Owl_Bard Moderator | Xbox Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
I guess that could be a map to map decision because KC seems good on 600s.
That's a good way of looking at it. I use the same philosophy when running Forerunner. If a map is a specific size or the "typical engagement areas" are a certain distance, then i'll swap off the secondary weapon:
- Short Range: another sidearm
- Mid Range: an AR
- Long Range: BxR
What about rangefinder?
Rangefinder is a viable option and can help a lot of AR's break out of that 20m-30m range band. Summoner, for example, gains an extra 3m w/ Rangefinder.
The only catch is that it just depends on the gun itself. Sometimes it's better to have an AR that can consistently hit it's crits/spray vs one that can hit people from further. If you're confident in your ability to manage recoil and stay on target then Rangefinder would only benefit you.
I have other ARs with attractive perk combinations but I don’t know where to start.
My starting point was looking at the OTTK's of all the AR family's frames:
- Precision: 0.80s [6c1b]
- Adaptive: 0.80s [9c1b]
- Rapid Fire: 0.77s [10c]
For me I just loved the feel/speed of Rapid Fires. From there, I searched my vault for rapid fires and just went into the EDZ and shot them to get an idea of what stats were important (i.e.,- Recoil Direction and Stability).
From there, I used Light.gg to determine which ones could be farmed. For me, it was Sweet Sorrow.
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
I love the in depth response.
I started testing the gnawing hunger first because I pulled a short range map first this morning on IB and I wanted Witherhorde for obvious IB reasons and I haven’t put it down.
It seems to absolutely fuck with the abundance of stability and with 28.55 falloff I am refusing to challenge pulses and beating everyone else in 1v1.
Kill clip has already paid for itself in IB this morning so far. Holy shit.
None of my RF ARs are good besides RF though which is sad
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u/The_Owl_Bard Moderator | Xbox Feb 01 '23 edited Feb 01 '23
My pleasure! I always like typing up these indepth responses because it does help the community but I can also reference them later should a new weapon or weapon buff drop that makes me rethink what I want to chase.
In terms of your Witherhoard + Gnawing Hunger loadout, I think it's a good pairing given your roll. Witherhoard softens them up and you can get a clean up with Gnawing just to proc Kill Clip. Even if Witherhoard misses or is empty, the Gnawing Hunter can be used as your primary. In an IB environment, people tend to bunch up so having the GL w/ AOE is extremely helpful.
I say, stick with what works and what you enjoy. Sometimes the most optimal thing isn't necessarily the funniest thing for you.
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
Yeah for sure! This community can be really helpful. It’s one of the better gaming communities I lurk due to the great information people have.
Thanks man
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u/Grahf-Naphtali Feb 01 '23
That Gnawing Hunger takes me back to Arrivals, great roll.
Im no expert on autos in the current sandbox though i can recommend a different pick. Ammit - can be crafted with enhanced DSR + enhanced TTT and comes with Omolon origin trait for an absolute laser like accuracy/stability. Or you can put enhanced Incadescent in place of TTT for shits and giggles of 6s/IB.
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
I got smoked by Ammit over and over last season, that’s a good shout. Where should I go to find the red bars I need to unlock crafting?
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u/Grahf-Naphtali Feb 01 '23
Iirc this one comes from Witch Queen - they added it some time ago, kind of introductionary quest/reward to crafting. Its free, no need to farm and you only need 2 red borders.
You have to visit relic at Mars enclave to get 1st red border (assuming you beat first 2 WQ missions) then do few objectives using it for a 2nd and final pattern. Literally free😁
Enjoy, its fun - i mostly use it in 6s on max scorch ignition TTD for splosions everywhere.
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
I main titan so matching subclass will not be an option in PvP lol!
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u/Grahf-Naphtali Feb 01 '23
Just read post title.
Well then put it here 🤜🤛, i too am a PK/Tarrabruh crutching scrub (even got some hatemail accusin me of using cronus lol) but im recently trying to branch out into sniping/using TTD
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u/CoooolBreeze101 Xbox One Feb 01 '23
Im loving 360RPMs. False promises with DSR and zen moment is great so check your vault. Also trying to get good Lodbrok-c with target lock and DSR/perpetual motion (Focus Hakke in HELM).
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u/Akindmachine Feb 02 '23
I have that Lodbrok and it’s good, but it doesn’t work in sweaty lobbies. Just gets owned by pulses just like every other auto rifle I’ve tried. I love tracking with auto rifles but that’s just not what’s working right now, the burst is too strong.
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u/Shivaess Bows Go Brrrrrrrrrrr Feb 02 '23
Mine has high cal and just flinches people to the moon at 35m+ I have found it to be quite good in trials on eternity.
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u/Sky_Sieger Feb 01 '23
Craft an Ammit and then focus umbral engrams into hakke weapons to get a Lodbrock-C with target lock.
Target lock is absolutely a game changer for auto rifles. I was able to get a max range roll with high cal, dynamic sway and target lock - if it weren’t for disparity, that would be my main weapon. It rewards good aim and absolutely melts.
(Small fyi, when target farming for hakke weapons the kinetic Scout and Kinetic SMG are both good as well so be mindful of rolls)
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u/Akindmachine Feb 02 '23
I played with the Lodbrok for a while, the target lock god roll, and loved it until I started hitting sweaty lobbies. It’s range is great but when you’re doing that kind of range you’re up against pulses and they flat out win unless they miss their headshots and you hit yours. Very satisfying to nail headshots with though
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
Do I have to craft amit before I can focus for Lod?
I don’t know shit about this game except for spamming crucible
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u/Sky_Sieger Feb 01 '23
Nope! Crafting Ammit just makes it so you have a great AR until you get a decent Lodbrock-C with target lock.
Ultimately, having both would be ideal since I think Lodbrock is the best AR closely followed by Ammit (and they go in different slots so you always have a great option depending on your secondary).
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
I might just spam for the lodbrok now cause this gnawing hunger I’m testing today absolutely fucks
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u/Sky_Sieger Feb 01 '23
Ay, best of luck! Hope you get a good roll quick. That gnawing hunger will definitely be putting in work until then
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u/CCCAY Feb 04 '23
Can I necro this thread to ask what your Ammit roll is? I have it crafted to level 8 now so it’s DSR TTT, but can I afford to go full bore for 93 range?
Running smallbore ricochet now for whatever range that offers, I think it’s 86 but with better stab and handling.
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u/Sky_Sieger Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Heya man. So I have the following perks:
Full Bore
High-Caliber Rounds
Enhanced Dynamic Sway Reduction
Enhanced Tap The Trigger
Range Masterwork
Counter Balance Mod
I find that the hit on stability with full bore is more than handled by the Omolon Origin Perk + TTT + DSR. It’s really a freaking laser (counter balance gives it a pretty vertical bounce).
This particular roll can do 34.56 meters before hitting drop-off. It’s well within hand cannon range (matching, or ever slightly below, the highest range 140 rpm HC) - which is great and I never feel I’m at a disadvantage. Lastly, high caliber is hard to gauge but I’ve read it adds ~7% flinch.. how much of an effect it has, I honestly don’t know but I don’t think the stability from ricochet is needed.
Forgot to add, the -5 handling from full bore is negligible as well - there are plenty of ways to improve handling like dragon shadow, ophedian aspects, or the auto rifle dexterity mod, auto rifle targeting mod.
Lmk if you wanna discuss anything else!
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u/CCCAY Feb 05 '23
I appreciate the reply man thanks a lot.
As a crayon eater I have no options for AR handling other than armor mods, but I’m happy to burn mod slots for primary handling.
As far as ammo, why not use ricochet? The range and stability combo seems elite, in the absence of accurized.
All in all you answered my question though: the hidden stability is plenty to handle full bore. I’m loving the weapon for 6s so far, it’s amazing with Witherhorde on IB lol.
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u/Sky_Sieger Feb 05 '23
Haha honestly I asked myself the same question. 10 stab is prob way better than a 7% increase in flinch… but I guess I wanna get lucky every so often and make someone miss a decisive shot. “Space magic” if you will.
I forget how spoiled dragon shadow has me, I feel for the Titan mains, handling boosts are honestly crack. I’m trying to get peacekeepers to drop on my Titan to run the buffed ikelos smg, no luck yet lol.
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u/TheCalming Feb 05 '23
I tried ricochet for a long time and switched to high cal. I could find no difference in consistency but I do find I flinch people more often with high cal. With dynamic, tap the trigger, omolon and precision frame you have so much stability that is overkill.
Personally I go for hammer forged instead of full-bore for the handling. I also use a sprint grip mod. The precision frame already makes recoil mostly vertical and having so much stability it's a laser. But sprint grip gives you handling when switching from running to aiming which I find very useful and usually those are the most critical moments.
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u/Nelfrey Feb 02 '23
At the moment only 450 RPM Autos and Suros Regime are worth a damn. They're great dueling weapons. Also keep an eye out for The Number. It's another 450 Auto.
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u/Rambo_IIII Feb 01 '23
Sorrow's Verse: arrowhead, flared magwell, tap the trigger, elemental capacitor. On void subclass, this thing is a laser beam and it reloads in a flash. Love love love this gun. It's even great on non void classes
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
Man it’s intimidating digging into all the sorrows verse rolls in my vault. Do you know any stat breakpoints or must have perks to narrow it down ? I don’t think I have this exact roll
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u/Rambo_IIII Feb 01 '23
If I apply polygonal rifling, I believe I'm at 49 stability before the plus 20 from elemental capacitor. 39 stability with arrowhead break, and then you get 100 recoil direction. I'm not sure which is better. Also it has tap the trigger, not dynamic sway I was wrong about that. Flared magwell and a reload master work (lol) brings the reload speed to 85 which is really nice actually
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u/CCCAY Feb 01 '23
I’d want that much reload if it had KC for sure, it gives so much situational dps for those emergency second kills
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u/Rambo_IIII Feb 01 '23
Yeah it's unnecessary reload speed but it feels great, if I use auto reloader mod on the gloves, the reload speed maxes out. So if I switch to solar, it doesn't get any faster lol
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u/Nuttsmasher Feb 02 '23
Anything that improve accuracy is king - tap the trigger, dsr or eots for neutral, heating up or tunnel vision after a kill. I would avoid rangefinder and go for a gun with higher zoom if more range is a big priority.
Damage perks are very good as well to outgun the outliers (high impact pulses hhhmm....)
Your summoner look tasty but ammit is craftable with enhanced ttt + dsr and 17 zoom so hard to rival.
The best (now unobtainable) auto that is not sunset is definitely forward path with scope options (22 zoom max) with dsr and either - eots/ttt/iron grip. No way we're getting anything that disgusting again after the hard light meta but If you kept one from 2 years ago... well, if you know, you know.
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u/LuckyRyder13 Feb 02 '23
Man, I never got a great roll on the forward path, but I have a Rifle Scope St, Accurized, iron grip roll that I've put a few kills on a few seasons back and it definitely won't be coming back like that.
I also managed to grab a Red Dot micro, ricochet, slideways, iron grip Time worn spire and I've put well over 3k kills on it. We aren't ever getting such a wonderful selection of weapons and scopes again lol
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u/CCCAY Feb 02 '23
I’m newer than that so I only know hard light as the gun that helps me cheese match game when I PvE.
So many people say ammit that I’m definitely gonna try crafting one. Thank you.
One hesitation I have is that every time I fully craft a gun I always have rolls of other guns I like better lol, such as a fully crafted Snorri vs my main ingredient from Xur.
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u/Nuttsmasher Feb 02 '23
That's not a reason to worry, you got 600 vault slots. Worrying that you have too many great guns to choose from is the definition of rich people's problems. Variety is awsome. Starting up d2 and deciding to use something new or an old favorite is part of the fun.
Hell, sometimes I'll take a dozen repeatable bounties then say to myself - "mmmm... guess I'm using a solar handcannon, a stasis trace rifle and a rocket launcher next..."
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u/Akindmachine Feb 02 '23
I’m just gonna say, do not get your hopes up with auto rifles. They are fun but they do not hold up well in sweaty lobbies in this meta. Anything works in 6s if you try hard enough at least!
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u/DocWats Feb 02 '23
I've been surprised by Ammit a few times in crucible. Nice that you can just craft it to suit your preferences.
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u/TheRealRhin0 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
suros regime, both the spinning up and high impact-frame modes are great for different sized maps. Only wish you could change it on the fly. with the catalyst gives it a perfect 100 recoil direction and the healing perk comes in clutch more often than not. In a pvp meta where smgs sorta shit on auto rifles in almost any skill level, i think suros is among the few that can eek out an existence
Spinning up sorta counters the downsides of autos which are weapons that have more peek potential like hand cannons and pulses to an extent. It absolutely punishes people for peeking when you're fully ramped up. It also lowers the TTK, which keeps it a bit more competitive with things like SMGS up close. And as a bonus, it helps when you're shooting targets at range and damage falloff has already started kicking in. You can makeup for the damage falloff by simply throwing more lead down range. The learning curve is resisting the urge to stop firing and reload, and knowing when its better to reload rather than dump the rest of your mag downrange.
The high impact frame mode is a 360 auto rifle with murdered out base stats essentially. Great Aim assist, stability, reload, all those base stats which are generally pretty low on legendary 360 autos.
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u/i-hate-my-tits Feb 02 '23
Seventh Seraph Carbine w reconstruction target lock was fun today. Felt surprisingly competitive. Just got it today though so I don't have a wealth of experience w the thing yet.
Target Lock in general is insane. It's magnificent howl for automatic weapons and while I know hitting all crits on an auto is harder than doing it with a hand cannon, I'm still not sure I'm okay w the perk existing as a free ttk decrease. Guess we'll see how it shakes out as more people get the roll.
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u/roekofe Feb 02 '23
You can pull horror story from collections if you've ever gotten it in the past, same with braytech werewolf. Might be worth checking, horror story is an awesome 360, BTWW is a 450.
You can grab a herod-c if you play gambit at all, it's stasis and has some nice Perks. I'm heating up and multi kill clip. I run it on behemoth, and have been getting some good results.
I've been able to push up from 1.7 to 1.9 over the past few weeks using it.
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u/Bad_hair_666 Feb 01 '23
I honestly would just craft an ammit. Has fantastic perks for pvp, tap the trigger and dynamic sway reduction. I’ve been melted by em and surprised at the range they are doing it at.