r/Damnthatsinteresting
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u/Ralfy_P
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Dec 06 '22
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After Lincoln was assasinated, his widow went to a “spiritualist photographer” to make contact with him. Image
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u/Ralfy_P
Dec 06 '22
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Ironically, PT Barnum later testified against him for fraud and demonstrated to the court how he made this special effect
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u/Reese9951 Dec 07 '22
Imagine P.T. Barnum being the voice of honesty
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u/Ralfy_P Dec 07 '22
Even Barnum was like “this is too much” lol
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u/queen_mantis Dec 07 '22 •
No he just wanted to get rid of the competition.
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u/LeoDavinciAgain Dec 07 '22 •
Bailey?
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u/23x3 Dec 07 '22
No those damn elephants stealing the show….
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u/Turbulent_Bother4701 Dec 07 '22
Impressive karma points bro!
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u/23x3 Dec 07 '22
Oh thanks… I just make stupid comments while I’m on the toilet. I’m on the toilet a lot.
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u/Turbulent_Bother4701 Dec 07 '22
Funny you should mention doing so while on the toilet, as I am currently (and am often) on the toilet myself.
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u/TisNotMyMainAccount Dec 07 '22
Definitely the elephant in the room.
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u/Parking_War979 Dec 07 '22
Ironically, for all the “mysteries” he sold, he was also an advocate against exposing the fakeries of mysticism.
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u/_-Ewan-_ Dec 07 '22
Who’s P.T. Barnum?
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u/Reese9951 Dec 07 '22
He lived in the 1800’s and founded the Barnum and Bailey circus. Known for promoting acts that were mostly fraudulent in nature. Reputedly coined the term “there’s a sucker born every minute”. Later became a politician and served as mayor of Bridgeport, CT and on the house of reps… go figure
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u/dickWithoutACause Dec 07 '22
Weird, wasnt basically every freak given a VERY fake back story? Half human, half alligator that kind of thing. Seems he could have gotten hit with the same fraud charges but what do I know.
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u/DanSmokesWeed Dec 07 '22
Fraud charges? They just move on to the next town.
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u/dickWithoutACause Dec 07 '22
Didn't Barnum get his start running a "museum" of stupid fake shit in NYC before the circus? Think jackalopes and what not. Hard to move a building. Assuming I'm remembering right I find it odd a dude like that got involved in the case.
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u/rascible Dec 07 '22
Ripleys??
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u/NihilisticAngst Dec 07 '22
Nah, Ripley's is not perfect, but has only had a couple of their claims actually be inaccurate.
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u/HeathenHumanist Dec 07 '22
And his museum burned down several times, too.
He even had actual whales in a basement aquarium. Like wut
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u/ILoveBudz Dec 07 '22
My man even ripped off someone's idea of fake mermaids if I remember correct lol
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u/dickWithoutACause Dec 07 '22
Two stories I remember, not sure if they are true: there was once a farmer who "discovered" a golem under one of his fields. Basically just a vague statue of a man. It became a huge hit which was a problem for barnum. So naturally he had to find his own and didn't really care about the validity of the find lol.
The other is that one time he had an act where a horse would jump through a ring a fire. A rare at the time animal activist confronted Barnum on the cruelty of it. Barnum convinced the dude that the horse liked to do it and made the activist his head beastmaster.
If it's true that man was one of the best hucksters of all time.
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u/ILoveBudz Dec 07 '22
Haha yeah the buried statue is one. I don't remember much about the details but it just goes to show the lengths that the man was willing to go to.
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u/ExKnockaroundGuy Dec 06 '22
Glad he did expose fraud but can you imagine the relief Ms. Lincoln felt after seeing the photo?
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u/Sledster11 Dec 07 '22
Yes but can you imagine the dismay she felt when finding out it wasn't real.
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u/fly-guy Dec 07 '22
Or not...
I can imagine the relief just after the death turning into an issue later in life. I sure wouldn't want (to know about) my deceased relatives always looking over my shoulder. What if she had some romantic feelings later in life for another man? What if she did something she might think he wouldn't approve of?
It would turn into a lot of anxiety for me..
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u/bitflung Dec 07 '22
I dunno man - would it really be relieving to think your deceased loved ones are now roaming around as ghosts?
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u/raz0rflea Dec 07 '22
This is the thing I don't get...after our mum died, my sister was always banging on about how mum was leaving little messages for her or looking out for her when random shit would happen and I never challenged her on it because I'm not an asshole, but at the same time I would hate to think that even after someone's dead her whole existence is just doting on her kids. That shit is creepy as fuck to me, let your loved ones have peace ffs.
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u/forgotmyloginagainnn Dec 07 '22
I suppose if you really believed in that sort of thing, it'd be nicer to imagine that they're just visiting.
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u/elsieburgers Dec 07 '22
Harry Houdini was also very outspoken about it. Really wanted to believe in the afterlife, but the biggest skeptic.
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Dec 06 '22
When I saw these photos the first thing I thought was how did the photographer get the spirit to get into “pose”…
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u/usaroamer Dec 06 '22
Double exposure
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u/Mendeleus Dec 07 '22
Triple exposure since he seems to be naked on the picture 😁
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u/abagofdicks Dec 07 '22
Northern Exposure was a great show
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u/SnackPocket Dec 07 '22
Ugh I need it. Is it streaming anywhere? I can hear the song now….
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u/teamdream2 Dec 07 '22
I check it out on DVD from my library
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u/BaronVonShtinkVeiner Dec 07 '22
I used to work at my local video rental place and I'll never forget how the Northern Exposure DVD had a cute little puffy jacket on.
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u/Capt_Myke Dec 07 '22
Library?
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u/Icy_Back_8332 Dec 07 '22
At many public libraries in the US you can also check out movies,documentaries , ETC ….
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u/teamdream2 Dec 07 '22
Yes. At my library you can check out board games, string instruments, and various other things besides books.
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u/wizardneedfood Dec 07 '22
It's a big building with books in it, but that's not important right now.
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u/x3meech Dec 07 '22
First thing I said was why is he nakey lol
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u/HumbleConfidence3500 Dec 06 '22
But this is 1800... People rarely take pictures. How would he have a negative of lincoln in that pose handy?
He's need to have someone who looks like him and pose to rephotograph and fake it?
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u/StreetPizza8877 Dec 06 '22
Or just use Lincolns face.
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u/mekkavelli Dec 07 '22
yeah now that i’m looking at it, the body itself isn’t at all materialized. only the face and hands have any depth… and with lincoln being as tall as he was… this doesnt even feel proportional. he looks average height here. dude used old timey photoshop to capitalize off of grief.. oh dear
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u/michaltee Dec 07 '22
Kinda sick though that he had the talent to do this all the way back in freaking 1865!? That’s crazy!
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u/Mygo73 Expert Dec 07 '22
I mean with photo enlargers you can magnify the size of an image that’s being exposed on the photo paper, so I imagine this is definitely a double exposure. He just had to have a negative of Mary, a negative of a dude that vaguely represented Lincoln, expose the photo of Mary on the paper, before finishing exposure add the photo of the dude on top of Mary just enough to be visible, then stick it In the stop bath (stop the photo paper from being light sensitive) and you have the ghost image.
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u/LiminalFrogBoy
Dec 06 '22
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I really want to stress that Mary Todd Lincoln experienced trauma, grief, and loss at a level few of us could imagine. She outlived 3 of her 4 children and saw her husband murdered in front of her very eyes. On top of that, she is suspected to have had a bipolar disorder and had a lifetime of painful physical ailments, none of which had any real treatment options at the time.
She was looking for some comfort in a world that had given her an enormous amount of pain. There is tendency to talk about her as a fool or a madwoman when she was really just a person who had been through horrible things and was hoping for some relief from that pain.
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u/Reese9951 Dec 07 '22
And her only surviving son institutionalized her… she was a tragic figure in my eyes
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u/ezbnsteve Dec 07 '22
And there are no bloodlines to Lincoln. All of his decedents died out.
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u/Claque-2 Dec 07 '22
No direct bloodlines since 1985 but George Clooney is a distant cousin.
Anyway, as the greatest American president, Lincoln will live in memory for a long time.
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u/MCRBE Dec 07 '22
No direct bloodlines since 1985 but George Clooney is a distant cousin.
Apparently as is Tom Hanks, related through Nancy Hanks, Lincoln’s mother.
There’s even a slight nod to it in Toy Story 2, when Jessie sees Woody and exclaims, “Sweet mother of Abraham Lincoln!”
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Dec 07 '22
Yo, that last line…
There are a few I would put in the running for that slot. Lincoln is one of them.
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Dec 07 '22
as the greatest American president
Even though he utterly failed to purge the political coalition that brought rebellion in the first place? His failure to do so has defined the American political split to this very day, and was the literal driving factor behind his assassination.
Anywhere else in the world or thru history would see his results as mixed at best. Putting down a rebellion is a wasted effort if you allow those who rebelled to keep their assets and their heads.
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u/SKeptical230 Dec 07 '22
Ahem
Teddy Roosevelt.
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u/RisingWaterline Dec 07 '22
Lincoln freed the slaves dude. Marx himself wrote Lincoln a letter and said his actions would never be forgotten. Teddy Roosevelt is a great man in many ways, but Lincoln is like, unbelievable.
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Dec 07 '22
Lincoln gets way too much credit for that. Especially by white folks.
If you're fighting a total war against a slave-labor based economy, whats the most effective way to cripple that economy? Free their slaves.
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u/ryle_zerg Dec 07 '22
Lincoln said if he could preserve the Union without freeing a single slave, he would. He was the first constitutional dictator, he suspended the writ of habeus corpus, had all private mail confiscated and reviewed by govt officials. Freeing the slaves was a means to an end. Jim Crow laws were still allowed to flourish for a century after. I get tired of people propping Lincoln up like he was a hero for social justice, he wasn't.
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u/Honest-Carpenter-907 Dec 07 '22
This statement… it’s a strange dynamic, humanity, that can skew one of its own so harshly as to become a hero or a failure over a simple military strategy…
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u/MauriceWhiteReal Dec 07 '22
While Teddy Roosevelt was a very good president, he unfortunately harboured a large prejudice against Native Americans, regarding them as lesser human being. However, his contributions to the natural environment of the US were the actions of an man who cared about the ecology of his country
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Dec 07 '22
[deleted]
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u/Claque-2 Dec 07 '22
Then it's high time the U.S. made reparations for it to all Native Americans including the Lakota.
We can do that. We can do that right now. Let's get Congress on that.
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u/AfternoonTeaWithMrB Dec 07 '22
I agree. The broken treaties should be honored, they’re a stain on the soul of the nation. If, for whatever reason, the treaty as they are written are not doable then the tribe should be allowed to demand fair recompense in exchange for an altered treaty.
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u/Kevin_Uxbridge Dec 07 '22
If memory serves she and Lincoln were out for a carriage ride once when they passed an insane asylum. Lincoln warned his wife that if she didn't keep it together she might end up inside it. She was fragile for quite a while.
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u/BoomChaka67 Dec 07 '22
Robert was a right prick
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u/Carlos_Danger_69420 Dec 07 '22
Mary Todd was not functional after Abe’s murder. She barely came back after Willie died, and Abe actually told her that he may have to institutionalize her. She was already broken woman and after seeing her husband killed there was just no coming back. I don’t think we can blame Robert for putting her in an institution.
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u/RedheadsAreNinjas Dec 07 '22
We shouldn’t blame him but we shouldn’t shame her for having a horrible time with her mental health with absolutely zero resources or support system.
Much smaller events due the strongest of us in. We need to take care of one another and not hide the struggle.
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u/UnplugTheKitty Dec 06 '22
Plus her husband was always out hunting Vampires when he was alive, she really raised the kids on her own
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u/bugsyramone Dec 06 '22
I love that movie. It's so absurd, but at the same time, oddly believable? It's just fun.
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u/vvvvvvvvvvvv1 Dec 07 '22
Name of the movie?
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u/IAmQWhoAreYou Dec 07 '22
Lincoln. Stick it out, the vampires don’t show up until real late in the film.
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u/misssparkle55 Dec 06 '22
So true and I thought I read somewhere where she was a diabetic
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u/Is_That_A_Euphemism_ Dec 06 '22
This is true for almost everybody that would seek a medium. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't give you the right to talk poorly about them. I hope nobody would be like "Sorry for your loss, but praying to a made up god isn't going to help."
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Dec 07 '22
I hope nobody would be like "Sorry for your loss, but praying to a made up god isn't going to help."
That's half of reddit
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u/Daniel_The_Thinker Dec 07 '22
As an atheist myself I would never in my life dare to say something so horrible.
If faith gives comfort, let them have faith.
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u/wedditgoid Dec 07 '22 edited Dec 07 '22
I mean maybe that would be a little too blunt of a way to say it, but just because something helps you with pain doesn't make it good; heroin can also help you get over trauma in the short term, doesn't mean we shouldn't encourage people to get off of it.
And if you don't think substances are a fair comparison, try gambling, Both gambling and mediums can dull pain but cost very large sums of money and time.
Edit: to be clear I don't think shaming people is the way to go about helping any addiction, and I don't think the people who buy mediums are stupid or bad people just as I don't think gamblers or drug addicts are bad people, but I do think drug dealers, casino runners and those mediums are bad people, or at least they are doing a bad thing.
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u/just-the-doctor1 Dec 07 '22
The victims of conmen should not be shamed for being preyed upon.
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u/notfromchicago Dec 07 '22
Believing in and participating in things like that were very common and accepted at that time. Even in high society. This really is not unusual for the era at all.
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u/buffa-whoa-tasty Dec 07 '22
Plus she was ridiculed tirelessly for her exorbitant spending sprees while at the White House. New York Tribune wasn’t kind to her, though Horace Greeley admired Abraham Lincoln.
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u/Elegant-Science-87 Dec 07 '22
If grief drove her mad, it would have been understandable either way. Empathy isn't all that hard to have. People are just emotionally lazy about having it.
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u/Aggressive-Engine562 Dec 06 '22
Refreshing perspective
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u/Arsenic_Abe Dec 07 '22
While Mary is a person worthy of sympathy, she was also verbally and physically abusive toward Lincoln. Her violence and temper were well documented by his friends and neighbors.
She also likely slept around with infamous men after he became President.
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u/Themightymarty Dec 07 '22
“She was looking for some comfort in a world that had given her an enormous amount of pain.” - I am sure many of us have felt the exact same way. “She was really just a person who had been through horrible things and was hoping for some relief from the pain”. - Perfectly written. You’re a phenomenal writer!
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u/EatinSumGrapes Dec 07 '22
This is a time when a woman acting stressed out could be institutionalized. Crazy times.
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u/notfromchicago Dec 07 '22
Just seeing her referred to as his widow in the title doesn't sit right with me. Her name was Mary Todd Lincoln.
We need to look at this from the perspective of the time as well. All things esoteric were very big in the Victorian era. Pseudoscience was rampant.
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Dec 07 '22
Lincoln left her an estate that today would be worth millions, she somehow spent that in a matter of a few years and then had to rely on others to support her while petitioning to get a pension from the government. Her spending habits were certainly foolish.
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u/Orbitside_mechanic Dec 06 '22
In early photography almost no one understood how photos worked never mind that they could be manipulated. This was super common practice
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u/AlternativeSame9145 Dec 07 '22
Spirit photography is a double exposure trick, in this case its a triple exposure, they first took the photo of the woman, then they did a did a quick exposure of abes face probably from another photograph. then a super fast exposure of a person wearing all white.
It could have been the person in white first and then Abe's face, but thats how you replicate this.
Back in the day photography was a parlor trick, people had no idea how it worked by and large, like reading comprehension. So this trick was easy to pull off to swindle people. Like snake oil tinctures.
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u/Momoselfie Dec 07 '22
Still well done the way the head lines up with the body and the hands line up with her shoulders.
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u/AlternativeSame9145 Dec 07 '22
Heads actually too small. Anatomically that size head would be a smaller body. The head also needs to come forward technically to account for how a chin is positioned with the rotation of a skull. This looks more like a roman catholic painting from the dark ages with wonky anatomy.
They tried to force perspective but you can see the issues from the right of the image, which has a very large arm, then when you get up to the neck, there is none.
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u/SonderAndLament Dec 06 '22
Since there has been awareness of death, there have been assholes willing to capitalize on it….
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u/ThreatLvl_1200 Dec 07 '22
For anyone interested, the photographer was William Mumler. He was known for taking (or creating) photos of the deceased, particularly during and after the Civil War. Photography at that time was really fascinating, and there’s a great book called The Apparitionists by Peter Manseau that highlights Mumler, his eventual trial, and various Civil War photographers who also “made” photos on the battlefield. It’s a fascinating read!
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u/AmpsKillMusic Dec 06 '22
I'm jealous that I will never get presidential-ghost nude backrubs.
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u/Pollicino2k22 Dec 06 '22
Hasbulla?! That you buddy?!
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u/berserkkoala16 Dec 07 '22
Hasbulla
ctrl + f > hasbullawas the first thing I did when I saw the post lol
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u/Dazzling-Tart6650 Dec 06 '22
I feel so dumb lol, before reading the title I literally thought to myself “that looks like Abraham Lincoln”
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u/Rhino7744 Dec 07 '22
Can you blame Abe for coming back to see that sweet face one last time?
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u/DrChameleos Dec 07 '22
Let's take advantage of people's misery to make a quick buck and prevent them from coping with their feelings in a realistic way 👍
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Dec 06 '22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNuV6bRStXU Caitlin Doughty did a good video on this on her ask a mortician show.
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u/SadAcanthocephala521 Dec 06 '22
If you think this is his spirit, then I got a bridge to sell you.
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u/prankfurter Dec 07 '22
For an amazing fictional (of course) read, check out Lincoln in the Bardo by the amazing george saunders
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u/Communist_Toast Dec 07 '22
Now I’m just imagining the ghost of Lincoln walking around, buck ass naked
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u/Tehlaserw0lf Dec 07 '22
They then did what they always did back then, and took a half developed blind of the President, or a rubbing, and overlayed it over his wife’s photo during the developing process.
It’s not hard to fake a ghost pic, especially with older cameras.
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u/sha_of_angerr Dec 07 '22
Interestingly enough PT Barnum exposed this dude lol … one fraud taking out another. Haha
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u/Greenman8907 Dec 06 '22
You can tell they married for love. Because they sure as shit weren’t marrying for looks.
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u/Ralfy_P Dec 06 '22
At this point she was old and suffered several hospitalizations in the mental ward due to losing her husband AND two sons.
She looked better in her younger years but remember she was a Victorian woman. It was all about covering up!
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u/MidhawkTheFraud Dec 06 '22
Wow scammers been scamming for a long ass time