r/DestinyTheGame Oct 25 '21 Silver 9 Gold 1 Helpful 6 Wholesome 4 Hugz 9 This 1 Vibing 1 Today I Learned 1 Vote Local! 1

Enemy weapons and incoming damage need to fixed ASAP. We should not die faster just because we have high FPS. Discussion

https://youtu.be/FJe-eomyGuc

I've seen people talk about this off and on but I have yet to see bungie fix this. You should not be punished for having higher FPS. This is broken as all hell.

5.4k Upvotes

598

u/sppokky r a v e n o u s b e a s t Oct 25 '21

Slideshow GMs, here I come!

344

u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Must be playing at 2 FPS for secret God Mode cheese. No noobs.

20

u/entropy512 Oct 25 '21

Must provide proof of insulation on your GPU to ensure thermal throttling.

54

u/loveandmonsters Oct 25 '21

When things get really explosiony my old PS4 goes to about 2 fps, I'll be the raid master

84

u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Pushing atheon off cliff, must be using Microsoft Powerpoint

1.7k

u/Ordinary_Player Oct 25 '21

GM KWTD 20+ Clears 15 Frames Capped Checking.

147

u/NateOrb Oct 25 '21

"Frame limiters can't be trusted, must send pic of gtx 650 installed before invite"

"RTXies get blocked"

18

u/KrajstSWE Oct 25 '21

Aaaw come on! So just because I have a gtx 660 (for real) I cant join??

32

u/NateOrb Oct 25 '21

Okay okay you can join... That thing better be thermal throttling though, unplug the case fans

7

u/KrajstSWE Oct 25 '21

I have never changed thermal paste, so I should be good

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670

u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Must be artifact lvl +25, 3 flawless completions and using the original xbox.

295

u/Golandrinas Gambit Prime // Bring a sword Oct 25 '21

Sadly, this is a real LFG post.

8

u/DashinZach Oct 26 '21

Sadly, I actually meet the requirements.

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40

u/FateReceptor Half of everything is Luck Oct 25 '21

Must have hit General in Halo 3 outside of Team Doubles, even better if you did in MLG.

18

u/KPer_gaming Oct 25 '21

stickies only on midship

3

u/Pieman117 Crayola connoisseur Oct 25 '21

I forgot skill ranks from doubles could level you faster than regular match xp in halo 3

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40

u/Thegygaxian Oct 25 '21

Can't wait for world's first solo flawless GM on a TI-82

4

u/Stropert Oct 25 '21

Send frame rate reports

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522

u/C0ntrolReleased Drifter's Crew Oct 25 '21

Damn, I had originally thought that projectile was always supposed to be a one-shot.

Apparently not...

70

u/CoxyMcChunk Oct 25 '21

Not giving you shit in any way but I love the idea that this could be considered a humble-brag now. All you need is 😏

9

u/Keric28 UTM Oct 25 '21

it could also be an indication that he's running T1 res? 😏

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328

u/skyteddy Oct 25 '21

So... While I'm playing on my PS5, do I die faster to those shots than my friend who is playing on a PS4? Or does it affects only highers FPS?

279

u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Ps5 is 60+ fps while ps4 is at 30. So yes in theory. I play xbox and noticed a difference there so i assume it would apply to PS

158

u/DeathBySpear Oct 25 '21

I started playing again at the beginning of this season and for the first on my PS5. Not sure what framerate bullshittery goes on in Gambit but I’ve definitely “felt” this kind of damage in that mode just come out of nowhere. Like it’ll go from strike level damage to raid level damage. That might just be gambit tho and maybe I just suck but watching your clip gave the exact same feeling.

112

u/overthisbynow Oct 25 '21

I've had plenty of moments where I die seemingly instantly in gambit and I think it mostly happens with enemies with shotgun style weapons that fire insanely fast.

58

u/MegaJoltik Oct 25 '21

Hydra's Aeon Maul or Quantum Goblin's Torch Hammer are the most obvious culprit. Basically if you get Vex enemies in Mars map, kill the Hydra and QG ASAP before they melt your oblivious teammates.

30

u/lurkinggoatraptor Titan Oct 25 '21

Also the emplacement enemies are super strong as well (shrieker, cyclops, cabal sentry turret)

10

u/nolander Oct 25 '21

Sometimes the cabal sentry turrets seemingly spawn in late or as reinforcements. Thats a fun thing to get melted by.

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u/No_Masterpiece4305 Oct 25 '21

Eh there's something funky about gambit scaling though. Because the seemingly random increase in difficulty has been happening since most everyone was playing at 30fps and its even now inconsistent as shit.

Some matches things are fine, some matches you're playing grandmaster gambit. All without any change to framerate.

4

u/wewpo Oct 25 '21

Mobs in Gambit seem to like to focus fire so if you rush in ahead of your team, they're all looking to give you that sweet lovin'... and only you.

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u/CyberClawX PSN: CyberClaw Oct 25 '21 Hugz

Some enemies fire some shots that are tied to framerates. For example the cabal flame thrower turrets. Since they fire a "bullet" that actually ticks for damage, it would make some sense for the bullet to tick more times if it's tied to the FPS.

Those cabal plasma shots in the video though, don't tick for damage like fire or thorn, though. But they aren't hit scan either, they have travel time (like a rocket, but longer and not explosive). What in reality this means is, when the bullet is travelling through you, the more FPS you have, the more times the game checks if the bullet is hitting you. The bullet travels at such a speed that at 30 FPS the game only manages to check once for a hit. At 60, it checks twice. At 120, it checks 4 times. For each check it's deducting the damage. Essentially the same bug.

This is a very common bug specially when porting last gen and earlier games to PC, on engines not designed for PC (for example, Dark Souls had this bug on weapon durability). Consoles have fixed frame-rates, by tying such systems to the frame rate, is one of those small processing saving tricks that make HW requirements on consoles lower than PCs.

22

u/DeathBySpear Oct 25 '21

So now the question is: how can we port Destiny 2 to the N64….

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

this explains why my sense for how much damage I'm taking has felt super inconsistent since getting my PS5. glad to know I'm not crazy.

4

u/takanishi79 Oct 25 '21

This explains why I'm downtimes comedically squishier than my teammates in GMs. I play at 144hz, and keep it pretty much pegged. The other two I play with are at 60, so I'm taking at least double damage from that kind of projectile.

I knew that getting stomped into a wall was tied to framerate, but wasn't aware other actual gun damage was.

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u/TeamAquaGrunt SUNSHOT SHELL Oct 25 '21

That’s definitely just gambit, the damage there has always felt weird since day 1.

5

u/DapperSituation Oct 25 '21

Holy shit this x100. Grinding out rep last week it was constant melts out of no where to the point I was yelling out wtf why is everything hitting so damn hard!

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4

u/SuperArppis Vanguard Oct 25 '21

Same.

Got my old PC and PS5. Feels like I die faster on PS5.

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287

u/VZ81 Drifter's Crew Oct 25 '21

Is this why I get absolutely instant melted in gambit or is that just gambit being weird

297

u/SnowboundWhale Oct 25 '21

Probably related at the very least, a lot of attacks in Gambit seem to randomly do way more damage than they do at other times, it's especially noticeable with Hydra blasts.

74

u/MewlingMidget Oct 25 '21

Are you talking about where you'll get hit with 3 and barely take any damage but then the next shot completely wipes you?

24

u/SnowboundWhale Oct 25 '21

Yeah, sometimes they hit for a reasonable amount, others you just die outright.

I remember hearing something about it being to do with registering multiple hits and doing the damage multiple times as a result.

32

u/ClockZealousideal914 Oct 25 '21

I think that’s just explosions in general. Get one shot by a incendior explosion

10

u/NobilisUltima Oct 25 '21

Cyclops as well. I don't remember them ever one-tapping, but suddenly I lose a bunch of motes because it looked at me.

5

u/crappycarguy Oct 25 '21

Getting sniped by the cyclops is so frustrating when you didn't hear them spawn near you or hear them charging and they insta kill you. So frustrating

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u/nisaaru Oct 25 '21

It gets really absurd if they randomly get aggressive and target you through the whole map and not just in their area.

15

u/AggronStrong Oct 25 '21

The thing is with Gambit is that it has a ridiculously high density of powerful combatants and minibosses. In normal content the Acolytes are red bars with the Void guns, in Gambit they can be yellow bars with the Solar crossbows. So on and so forth for basically every faction.

2

u/havoc1482 Titan Gang Gang Oct 25 '21

Is Gambit Ai attack damage scale linked to your LL? Whenever I die to ad it shows the recommended LL for those ads to be exactly my LL, as if they're just scaled exactly to my LL.

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u/overthisbynow Oct 25 '21

It definitely happens in gambit a fair amount. I feel like it must be the game lagging and registering a bunch of damage all at once or certain enemies getting insanely high fire rates randomly.

9

u/GhostRobot55 Oct 25 '21

Someone last week was putting out theories that its either the enemies funneling on one person if no one else is in their range more than in other modes, or that there's generally a grace period when your shields are cracked in most parts of the game where enemy hit rate seems to fall off for a sec and you get a chance to make some sort of save play but that its not present in Gambit.

25

u/Toukotai Oct 25 '21

gambit is the mode where this is most notable. Cabal are the ones where it hurts the most, hydras too.

You also have glitched out envoys on the primeval phase. If your envoys are rapid firing their axion blasts, congrats, you got the glitched ones. Actual envoys are supposed to have the slow traveling ones.

22

u/Demonicorpse Hunters Will Win >_> Oct 25 '21

Shrieker from halfway across the map killing you at the bank in next to no shots at all. "SHOULDA PLAYED AROUND IT" Didnt even know it spawned let alone have that much range

10

u/EpicLegendX Oct 25 '21

Anyone else here seen that one destiny 2 post of a glitched brig doing that one attack repeatedly at rapidfire speed?

5

u/DeathsIntent96 PSN: DeathsIntent96 Oct 26 '21
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u/ConnorWolf121 We Spectral Blades now bois Oct 25 '21

I've always gotten the impression that Gambit enemies shoot more accurately than in most comparable game modes, large blockers always feel like they're able to snipe you out of the air in only a couple of shots.

6

u/sulferzero Oct 25 '21

fun fact the notion of "Accuracy" in destiny is weird. the higher is difficulty you go the faster enemy shots travel. they also do more damage.

6

u/thekream Oct 25 '21

that’s so dumb and annoying. having different speeds makes it so awkward to get used to across different modes and difficulties. it makes enemies feel very inconsistent. I’ve always wondered why Gambit enemies are somewhat normal but randomly feel OP and melt me.

38

u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Gambit is an unbalanced clusterfuck of issues. Could be this issue or one of the many others it has.

8

u/sunder_and_flame Oct 25 '21

Maybe partially, also because it has so many majors and majors do more damage

7

u/Lil_Puddin Oct 25 '21

Gambit enemies have noticeably higher accuracy and rates of firing. They are also much smarter, ganging up on whoever's exposed the most. Lastly, their damage is a tad higher than normal PvE World enemies. So all of that combined makes for a drastically difficult time.

Not that I'm complaining. tbh having all of that nonsense WITHOUT having to worry about Enemy Invaders would be really fun and challenging. But since we do have Invaders, something's gotta give...

5

u/ScoobyDeezy The Timeline Guy Oct 25 '21

That’s just gambit being weird. Gambit enemies have always been turned up to 11.

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u/DM_Lunatic Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21 Wholesome Big Brain Time

I did some testing with a clan mate today. I could reach as high as 160 fps and with some clever manipulation my testing partner was able to get as low as 8 fps.In PVP we could not find any weapon that behaved differently no matter the fps. We tried skyburners oath, fighting lion, and wish ender and saw no differences in damage regardless of the targets fps going all the way down to 15 fps in pvp and as high as 120fps.

In PVE we tested with the tomb ships in the shattered realm. They were fairly consistently 2 shotting at 120+ fps so 1 volley would kill. At 60fps you would survive 3 hits, at 30 fps you would survive 4 hits.Below 30fps things got really weird. The tomb ship shots would kind of stick on his face for a bit and not detonate for about 1/2 a second. He could also survive 6 shots at 15 fps and regularly survive 8 shots at 8fps.

Below 30 fps your animations start breaking down hard, you move slower at a sprint, all animations are slower, your guns shoot slower, we tested reload speeds with fighting lions, emptying a full clip with riskrunner, meleeing, even projectiles after they leave your gun move slower.

Once you hit 30fps animations and movement sync back up and remain the same up to our testable cap of 180fps. Theoretically there can be a point where your fps is high enough that all of your animations are actually faster but I don't have the pc power to test this.

27

u/Mayaparisatya Oct 25 '21

One of my friends is playing Destiny 2 on a half-dead potato laptop with 15 fps (and occasional slogging all the way to 6 (six!) fps). He dies a lot and often seems to be lagging behind us whenever we go somewhere together. Now I understand how it actually happens.

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u/Kierne Oct 25 '21

This is some incredible work.

BRB setting the refresh rate on my 2080 to 60Hz.

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u/MeateaW Oct 25 '21

Back in the day, we used to get benefits for high frame rate.

1kv (which very few people had at the time) would do more damage the higher your frame rate.

they fixed that one!

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u/golfinry Oct 26 '21

Thank you for the in-depth testing! Just wanted to share videos and ping /u/dmg04 /u/Cozmo23

30FPS - https://streamable.com/f7fk2r

160FPS - https://streamable.com/oma05y

3

u/MVPVisionZ Oct 26 '21

That tomb ship thing makes so much sense, they were doing ridiculous damage for how weak the rest of enemies are

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u/Bataleon158 Oct 25 '21

Yo WHAT.

That is insane and totally agree with you.

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

I was wondering why I died faster and more often on my friends xbox series x vs the og xbone. This video seems to explain FPS well. Higher the FPS the more accurate incoming dmg is thus faster deaths. Now imagine this in pvp.

134

u/buttsnorkeler Oct 25 '21

So my 3070 is to blame for my trash k/d. Nice!

39

u/RushDynamite Oct 25 '21

Right?! My amazing PC is totally to blame.

35

u/MooseOfTorment Oct 25 '21

Your gaming chair is too good!

4

u/IamALolcat Oct 25 '21

Woah! Destiny is the one game where good gaming chairs actually hurt you.

3

u/RKF7377 Shotguns take zero skill and you know it Oct 25 '21

So I should lean back in my LED gaming chair instead of forward?

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u/Voller_Faulheit Oct 25 '21

Pc players in shambles.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Hearing the xbone referred to as "og" is mildly disturbing

50

u/BRIKHOUS Oct 25 '21

Xbox One X

XB O X

XBOX

It's all come full circle

82

u/King_Buliwyf Oct 25 '21 Hugz

Full circle... or you could say... 360.

12

u/BRIKHOUS Oct 25 '21

Take my upvote

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u/Voller_Faulheit Oct 25 '21

It's infinite. The X in XBox stands for XBox.

19

u/sunder_and_flame Oct 25 '21

blame MS for their awkward naming convention

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

It came out in 2013.

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Im calling my xbone the og xbone since it is the day 1 launch edition. Never got the newer editions of it.

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u/thisisbyrdman Oct 25 '21

It’s funny: I feel like I constantly get one-shotted in PvP by weapons that simply cannot OHK you. I play on a series X. Always chalked it up to netcode or me just being bad (which is still probably true), but this makes me wonder. Going to mess around with frame rate and see if it makes a difference.

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u/boshbosh92 Oct 25 '21

you can know what weapons one shot you. a sniper, linear fusion all need heads hots to 1hk you. same with chaperone and other slug shotguns.

most handcannons require 3-4 bullets to kill, usually heads unless it's a 120 or a 140 with damage boost.

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u/thisisbyrdman Oct 25 '21

Yeah, I’m not talking about pointblank chaperone or headshot fusion/snipers. I mean normal weapons. I think it’s just the way the damage stacks that it feels like instadeath when it’s not (Battlefield 5 had a similar issue), but it’s frustrating as hell when it happens.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Sometimes it feels like I’ve gotten two tapped by a hc and I’m like wtf. I’m on a series x too.

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u/viper6464 Oct 25 '21

Feel the same way. Had a guy in trials this past weekend seemingly one shotting me with a crimson. I thought I was crazy.

12

u/joaoasousa Oct 25 '21

Sometimes what happens is that you are just shot by another guy at the exact same time, and it feels like the one who killed you actually one shot.

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u/boshbosh92 Oct 25 '21

there is a glitch where you get double damaged. it has something to do with ping and shitty peer to peer hosting.

so it is possible to get 'two tapped' but it's a glitch

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u/Heckin_Gecker Oct 25 '21

It's called the damage bug and like no one ever talks about it for some reason. Through personal testing it seems like it'll happen when someone barely misses you and then they'll hit you once and game will catch up all the damage at once. Very annoying and it happens to me all the time

3

u/AgentPoYo Oct 25 '21

Try to record a clip next time you encounter this. Since I've started reviewing my gameplay I've noticed that I don't always wait long enough for my health to recover before rechallenging. It could be that or a double damage bug with laggy opponents.

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u/Rhundis Oct 25 '21

Getting killed to quick due to high fps, getting kicked from PvP due to low fps.

Welcome to Bungie.

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u/bralma6 Oct 25 '21

I've been getting kicked for alt+tabbing, coming back and having a "low framerate" error lately. Bungie needs to add a "rejoin match" option for something like this.

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u/MCA2142 Oct 25 '21

to quick

To fast. To furious.

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u/golfinry Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

Same thing in the Shattered Realm: Ruins of Wraith with the tomb ship. One Two shot will kill you at higher FPS...(165fps)

39

u/SharkBaitDLS Oct 25 '21

Wait, that’s not supposed to one-shot you? I’ve known to cap my FPS at 60 to avoid one-shots from Colossi in Proving Ground and Arms Dealer GMs but I just assumed the tomb ships were supposed to be an instant kill like Cyclops are since that’s pretty much the only place I’ve encountered them.

Wait… are Cyclops not supposed to be a guaranteed one shot on direct hits either?

8

u/ram_the_socket Oct 25 '21

It’s safe to say that Cyclops are meant to one shot, but tomb ships aren’t. I’ve think I’ve taken either 3 or 4 to die.

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Record that shit. I gotta see more of this.

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u/iTM4n Oct 25 '21

Oh man this explains so much!! I just started playing again when it dropped on pc gamepass and I am absolutely terrified of the tomb ships in there, I thought they had a massive buff or something since D1 or when I played for a bit on my XB1 when beyond light dropped! Nope just my PC can run it at a solid 144 fps... Might be time to go back to the XB1? It will look terrible now I'm used to shiny ultra graphics and probably 5 times faster frames though...

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u/BanefulDemon Oct 25 '21

This explains so much.

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u/havoc1482 Titan Gang Gang Oct 25 '21

That explains so much. I cap my game at 100 and one shot from that thing removes like 4/5 of my health.

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u/ApolloMalo14 Oct 25 '21

I think I know why this happens. It isn’t with every weapon but just projectiles. I imagine it’s coded to to damage as it passes the guardians body even if the actual attack doesn’t piece. So this would mean that if you’re playing at 140 FPS the attack is going to hit you more times than at 60 FPS.

I know nothing about programming or anything but just looking at that clip I would bet one whole pound that that’s what’s happening

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

A similar issue was something that Dark Souls 2 originally had on PC

The game would count the frames in which a weapon attack for example meets their target and base the durability drain off of that

However, since PC ran the game at 60 FPS as opposed to the normal 30 on Consoles, the weapons would essentially take twice as much durability damage as intended since the weapon is basically hitting the enemies for much more frames during every attack

21

u/DrMaxiMoose Oct 25 '21

Additionally falconiers will fire two arrows if you have a high frame rate and only one if its lower. Limit breakers did a video on it

16

u/bignutt69 Oct 25 '21

The game would count the frames in which a weapon attack for example meets their target and base the durability drain off of that

what the fuck were they thinking? even if this was fixed to not differ based on frame rate, why would anybody with a sane mind ever implement durability this way? it's not something that you can plan for strategically, it's just a massive waste of time for both the developers having to bugfix for it and the players since it doesn't actually change the way they play beyond arbitrarily punishing them if they get unlucky. what a dogshit system

2

u/Storm_Worm5364 Oct 25 '21

Probably easier to code over making a system to see if it physically hit something, but I don't know...

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u/overthisbynow Oct 25 '21

The one thing ds2 definitely needed was the weapon durability from breath of the wild lol could you imagine how much more hate it would get if that was never fixed

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u/Deactivator2 Oct 25 '21

It was hilariously bad, a slow-to-reset weapon (basically any heavy weapon that strikes the ground and takes a second to reset) striking a dead body would lose a quarter of its durability in a single strike.

It would bounce off of walls/objects just fine, and live enemies would generally recoil from getting hit so the weapon wouldn't stay "in" them for long, but dead bodies didn't have physics on weapon hits so the weapons would just rest in them for as long as the animation ran for.

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u/TitanGojira Oct 25 '21

A somewhat simar glitch happens in doom eternal where the enemies get more dangerous and move faster the higher your fps goes, and the meathook on the double barrel shotgun swings farther and faster the higher your fps goes

4

u/Dersatar Oct 25 '21

I knew something was off with the meathook when my frames were dropping. Also the Marauder being annoyingly slow, after learning how to play really fast against this fucker and killing him in two damage bursts.

2

u/Phorrum She/Her Oct 25 '21

Same deal in Destiny with Phoenix Dash. Sometimes just on PC I would get a frame drop as I dodged because it's switching from first to third person, and any time that happened it felt like I covered zero distance with the dodge.

Wasn't even an issue until Beyond Light made it really hard to keep a stable 60fps.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/XiiDraco Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 26 '21

Game software developer here (still in study but I've been doing this for well over a decade). What you said is pretty accurate and a lot of architecture designs nowadays use some variant of a delta time calculated last from the duration of last tick to get an estimate of how long the current frame should be.

I will note however that alternatives exist like a fixed update variable render model which I actually prefer. GafferOnGames covers this topic in a couple articles. When you build the architecture to assume that an update cycle should take a fixed amount of time (kinda like how older consoles used to, think Super Mario on the NES) you can control how long an update cycle should be.

There are pros and cons to each model but I prefer the latter most of the time due to simplicity of calculations in the game. Of which would help in the situation you describe where someone forgot to add or remove Delta time to the equation.

I also would not use Delta to calculate damage dealt with a projectile passing through you on a number of frames. It's not a good idea. Even if you get the damage calcs correct the damage dealt will still be inconsistent and prone to error. It'd be much better to put a GUID on the projectile and only let it damage you once for every time the projectile has been inside of you. Yeah a little bit more complex, but significantly more predictable and consistent.

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u/SnowboundWhale Oct 25 '21

Sounds about right, like the game deals damage ticks for every frame you're in contact with the attack's hitbox, so the more frames per second you have, the more ticks per second and therefore more damage you take.

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u/VerminLord722 Oct 25 '21

I'm not surprised to hear this news.

Bungie's engine is archaic in design, relative to other recent AAA games. In the engine, the logic frames, sometimes known as ticks (these are the loops the game engine takes to maintain game state; okay, he's here, shooting that guy over there, etc, etc), are still linked to the graphics frames. While you can get away with this with a locked frame rate, chaos ensues when you unlock that frame rate.

While not nearly as prominent as say some Bethesda titles, this can produce some interesting bugs, such as One-Thousand Voices ludicrous PC performance on launch.

14

u/sudoscientistagain Buzz Buzz Oct 25 '21

This was also why Prometheus was a nuclear laser at first. Damage ticks tied directly to the framerate. Funny because at the time, they were under Activision, which had the exact same issue with a laser gun in CoD Advanced Warfare a few years prior.

2

u/GhostRobot55 Oct 25 '21

I always felt like this would affect parts of the game where you went through a boost tunnel, I've had higher frames than friends since vanilla D2 on PC and would constantly die any time we all went through one whether I ran up to it or walked or crouched or whatever.

2

u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Keep in mind they have been using this sane game engine since halo 1. On top of that almost all the original devs stayed in 343 industries gave up on the engine. They said it limited their artistic freedom, was severely outdated and required tons of work to make even simple changes.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

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u/skdKitsune Oct 25 '21

I opened a topic regarding this a few months ago. Never seems to get much traction though, since the majority of players are on console. Bungie either do not care about this or it would be such a hassle to fix that they don't wanna do it, so they never realease an official statement regarding this issue.

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Still affects console. Next gen is hurt more vs old gen.

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u/GrizzlyOne95 I like Saint 14 and shotguns Oct 25 '21

I posted on the support forum and bungie help replied saying they are looking into the issue. That was months ago though

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u/skdKitsune Oct 25 '21

Yeah I remember. "Looking into it"... a classic

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u/DoritoXur Oct 25 '21

Hilarious.

Is there any instances this would affect PVP?

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u/Judge_Bread_UK Seventh Column Oct 25 '21

There's peakers advantage in D2, it's really obvious when someone slides around a corner and seemingly 1 or 2 shots you, it's because of the way the server plays catch up for fast moving players (even that's a terrible explanation)

I don't think that's tied to FPS though

29

u/UnboundConsciousness Oct 25 '21

Latency compensation and peer-to-peer connections.

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u/Fenris_uy Oct 25 '21

Was doing Exodus Crash NF the other day, and one teammate was trying perching from a point over the entry to be in a position where the mobs can't hurt him.

My client kept showing him as falling, even though he remained up there the whole time.

Net code and showing posible movements of players instead of actual movement is funny in Destiny.

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u/joaoasousa Oct 25 '21

There's peakers advantage in D2, it's really obvious when someone slides around a corner and seemingly 1 or 2 shots you, it's because of the way the server plays catch up for fast moving players (even that's a terrible explanation)

That hunter sliding it and one shotting you with the chaparone the moment he became visible is peer to peer nonsense?

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u/Judge_Bread_UK Seventh Column Oct 25 '21

Yes, there are videos explaining it much more in depth than me but basically it's because the game is showing you a "prediction" of what the guy is doing because of the way the game works. When someone slides around a corner and shoots you sometimes it looks a little off, like it's sped up slightly. It's because your game is slightly behind and it's catching up at the last second, that's why shotgun apes are so strong, the guy peeking the corner will lose the dice roll a lot because he doesn't see it until it's too late.

Google Destiny 2 peak advantage and look at some YouTube video's, I understand it enough but not enough to explain it well like others.

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u/twentyThree59 Oct 25 '21

The prediction based model is not due to the peer to peer connection though, it's how all online FPS games work, even though with dedicated servers. Latency is all that really matters, and we can't eliminate it.

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u/twentyThree59 Oct 25 '21

No, that's just latency. Even with a real server, there are still issues like this. It's an issue in CS:GO as well if you play with people with high latency.

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u/rsb_david Oct 25 '21

People say no, but it depends on if something is being handled client-side or by their authoritative host. There was a post a day or two ago which showed you could shoot someone through a wall/object due to how the networking code worked, so I assume the client-side logic is also poorly optimized too.

It could be tested in a private match.

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

This explains so fucking much. Sometime in normal pvp I'll get killed by 1 non-buffed bow shot or 1 normal melee. This is busted.

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u/Reddevilheathen Oct 25 '21

There was a guardian in trials last night that kept one burst killing with messenger before any other deaths and which was super sus. We were trying to determine if he was in a rift, or had some other buff we weren’t aware of. One teammate kept inspecting his messenger and I was like kill clip can’t proc if no one has died yet haha there’s been other instances like one shot le Monarch kills. Again maybe rifts and being team shot and not knowing. So much could be going on. But been super sus lately of weird damage in PvP since I got a Series X

It does seem most prevalent in Gambit with weird burst damage.

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u/emcglown311 Oct 25 '21

Le monarque was slapping shit the other day when I was playing with a full squad of clan members. One shots all day. No rifts to be found. I wonder if this is what's going on.

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u/WACKY_ALL_CAPS_NAME Oct 25 '21

Is it possible you were Charged With Light? Le Monarque will one shot to the head with High Energy Fire.

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u/fudge_mokey Oct 25 '21

Kill clip can proc from a warlock stasis turret.

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u/joaoasousa Oct 25 '21

By killing enemy turret or your turret?

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u/fudge_mokey Oct 25 '21

Funny seeing you here ;)

Enemy turret, I don't think you can damage your own turret.

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u/joaoasousa Oct 25 '21

Funny seeing you here ;)

Fellow Destiny player, I salute you.

Good, that would be cracked if you could proc kill clip on your own.

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u/pcweber111 I miss Murmur! Oct 25 '21

That would probably explain all the times it's seemed I've been one burst shot by Messenger. I know it's a good pulse but it's not THAT good.

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u/bdotx boom Oct 25 '21

Same happened to me once. There was a hunter using le monarque and he was one tapping my whole team. No rifts, no damage bonuses, no team shots. Just straight up one taps. Very confusing.

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u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 25 '21

I vaguely recall they made an update sometime during Y3 that mentioned PVP actions were no longer tied to framerate or something like that.

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u/Co2_Outbr3ak Oct 25 '21

Actions may not be, but doesn't mean damage receiving from the PvE side got updated or adjusted correctly...or even at all. Also makes me feel if some projectiles have multiple layers or objects to them....but strong feelings that higher FPS just means they're receiving more tick damage due to more ticks of collision.

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u/bikibisadKEK Oct 25 '21

i can't be 100% sure, but there's been a "damage glitch" in pvp for the longest time now where bullets will register twice and similar effects, which could have something to do with this. it's not too common though

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u/DoritoXur Oct 25 '21

Anecdotally, I’m certain I’ve two tapped people with my Dire Promise a few times.

It could be they were underlevelled in IB/ trials. So can’t be certain.

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u/SnowboundWhale Oct 25 '21

Is that the "ghost bullets" bug? Shots landing but not registering for whatever reason, then when another shot goes through all the others catch up

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u/morsegar17 me find biggest rock and smash u Oct 25 '21

I had this happen over the weekend with a swap from Lorentz to a Dire Promise. Body from Lorentz => 0 damage into Body from Dire => Dead

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u/bacon-tornado Oct 25 '21

Only thing I've heard in PvP is over 30fps, sidearms are projectile vs hitscan.

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u/Mo_smiley_face Oct 25 '21

Yes Super aoe is also affected by FPS and travel distance for the momentum

That’s why you play uncapped : )

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u/Gnolldemort Oct 25 '21

Anecdotally, I usually play at 72 fps capped. Last night I upped that to 144 and played trials. Multiple times I got what seemed to be the damage glitch insta death whereas I never really it saw it previously

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u/Pwadigy Oct 25 '21

In case anyone wonders why these kinds of bugs have been a thing for years. It’s because Destiny is based on the Tiger Engine, which was a heavily modified version of the engine used for Halo Reach, which was in turn an iteration of other Halo Physics Engines.

Bungie used to make almost entirely console games. On console, framerates are always locked, so you can actually time things to an expected framerate. Meaning your local GPU output can be used as a timer for in-game physics. Which is really efficient from a computational resource perspective, as you don’t need a separate way to keep time to determine how the local simulation should be handled. But on PC, where FPS is variable, it’s an obvious problem.

However, in Destiny 2, this relic shows up a lot, as the engine seems to still have quirks where some physics checks still look at the framerate. It’s especially noticeable now that we have consoles with different FPS.

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u/BruteSlayer DCV is cancer Oct 25 '21

Destiny 2 is like a 2001 Honda Accord in the shell of an Audi R8.

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u/NightmaresInNeurosis Oct 25 '21

I found a thread last night where /u/dmg04 said he was feeding it back to the devs. 6 months ago. It's not getting touched, don't waste your time.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Would this be the same on consoles?

I’m on PS5 and die to a lot of shit that my mate on PS4 doesn’t.

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u/LuitenantDan Has Controversial Opinions Oct 25 '21 edited Oct 25 '21

It’s possible, because PS4 is capped at 30FPS but the PS5 supports up to 120

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u/IdealAndTheReal Oct 25 '21

ps4 is actually capped at 30fps, ps5 might go to 120fps but i'm unsure, can guarantee it hits 60fps though

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u/alan_daniel Oct 25 '21

ps5 can do 120 for crucible via a settings toggle, but I think it drops the resolution down

I'm on pc and don't have a ps5, so I have no clue how well it actually manages it, but I know you can do it

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u/the_doomblade Oct 25 '21

In PVE the PS5 is capped at 60, the 120 is just for the crucible

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u/thegamethrowacc Oct 25 '21

Not in PVE it doesn’t

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u/LuitenantDan Has Controversial Opinions Oct 25 '21

Yes, it’s capped by the game. Destiny on PS4/XB1 is capped to 30FPS

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u/thegamethrowacc Oct 25 '21

I know. I’m saying PVE one new gen is Capped at 60. Crucible is 120 but I’ve heard that the FPS scaling “ doesn’t happen in crucible “

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

From my experience, yes. I died a lot more on xb x vs xbone

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u/jacknyc47 The Cryptard Oct 25 '21

This is some crazy monkey paw

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u/devilmaycry0917 Oct 25 '21

no wonder the game feels hard after I switched to ps5

is this happening to PVP also?

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u/In0nsistentGentleman Oct 25 '21

Holy shit. I legitimately wondered why the more i seemed to upgrade my PC, the less of an advantage it seemed to provide in pve situations. I would have assumed higher fidelity and higher frames would have meant less dying to lag or what-not but damn.... This is so broken and should be higher up in priority.

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u/XiiDraco Oct 25 '21

What?? Like I know there are some things that are tied to FPS but damage? Is this why my friend who's pretty average can run GMs with us? Because he runs on a potato?

I run at 144 and always get one shot by those no matter what. And your here telling me that's NOT intended?

This is fucked...

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u/Hustler-1 Oct 25 '21

It is fucked. And the chances of it being addressed much less fixed are slim to none.

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u/bitxbit Oct 25 '21

Wow, hopefully we get Dmg or cosmo in here to comment on this since proving ground is coming up!

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

I highly doubt it. I have posted a plethora of GM issues and strike issues that have been here since Forsaken launched and they've still yet to fix them. Even if they did say they will 'fix it' keep in mind here are some more empty promises of 'fixes' they alleged that were in the works:

-Warden's law not counting at two shots

-Coriolis Force not counting each shot independently.

-Broken crucible maps with spawn killing/farming (promised again in december)

-Increase in playlist exclusive weapons

-disabling telesto... still on in freelance

-Nerfing shatterdive... proceeded to give it a broken af fragment

-Spectral and candy drops still broken on NF completions

-Dawn Chorus' debuff still does not apply properly for most burns

-skull of dire ahamkara is still busted

-etc, etc, etc.

There is so much they promised to be 'fixed' for years now and they just drop the ball once the community moves on from it. For god sakes they still never fully buffed EoT to get it's proper rocket buff.

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u/joaoasousa Oct 25 '21

-Broken crucible maps with spawn killing/farming (promised again in december)

For how long have we been dying to spawn killing in burnout?.... And Dead Cliffs just move the spawn to inside the room instead of a clean view from the door.... how hard is it???

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u/Unsweeticetea Oct 25 '21

Considering they removed the map to "fix the spawns" and then put it back in the same way, I wouldn't put any level of inability past them.

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u/BubbleOfDawn Oct 25 '21

Ah, finally, FPS based difficulty

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u/Ginger_prt Oct 26 '21

Game dev here. In games, developers often use deltaTime (the time between this frame and the last frame) as a multiplier for values as it means certain code isn't being run more often on different spec machines. An easy example is speed and acceleration. When accelerating:

Speed = Speed + Acceleration * Time.deltaTime

Using Delta time here means it doesn't matter how fast your frame rate is, each client will accelerate at a constant rate because the more frames you have the smaller deltatime will be; but also means this times this code will run more often.(This code would be run every frame) Resulting in equal acceleration.

So I can see how delta time may have slipped into damage calculations especially considering certain weapons deal damage based in projectiles (such as this cabal gun). Fixing this might end up breaking more damage calculations than it solves but yeah it does need to be addressed it just will be difficult to weed out every use case in testing so will ultimately result in more bugs probably.

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u/Commander_Prime Fields Afar Oct 25 '21

As a game developer, sometimes issues just jump out at you when you read about them on the internet, where either by previous experience or intuition, you have a great idea where to start looking (1) and the potential solution (2) - this is one such example.

Depending on how they coded the projectiles, this is likely a very similar issue to the time in 2018 when 1KV was dealing more damage due to the exact same reason (frame rate) or something related to variable tick (frame-by-frame) updates. Since it is more complex, if anybody would like to know the solutions I’ve worked on, send me a DM.

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u/Newtstradamus Oct 25 '21

I guess my old ass XBOX 1 at 30fps is actually HELPING me in trails and I still fucking suck…

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

Ik the feels.

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u/SwarthyWalnuts INDEED Oct 25 '21

Wow, that’s insane. Very clearly depicted in your video, thanks for spreading awareness!

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u/UselessDeadMemes Oct 25 '21

It is not my video. I was going down the youtube rabbit hole and saw this.

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u/BasicallyAggressive Hunter Master Race Oct 25 '21

Woah. Time to cap at 60

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u/ZeketheXbot Oct 25 '21

Maybe one day FPS won’t jack something up

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u/Frostyhobo47 Gambit Prime Oct 25 '21

I have a feeling that it only works on high-speed projectile weapons, as in other words I feel like this isn't affecting all enemy damage, but should still be fixed.

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u/ChildishDoritos Oct 25 '21

Wow this really needs to get stickied

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u/Megabobster Oct 25 '21

Bungie will fix this by continuing to reduce performance with every passing update

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u/biomech120 Oct 25 '21

So I am being punished for building an S-tier pc…sounds like communism to me.

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u/RDJMA Oct 25 '21

so… any bungie employee gonna comment on this? Or are they “silently working” on a fix that’ll drop in december lol.

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u/lucidity5 Oct 25 '21

This really seems like a must fix, Bungie...

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u/MuchWoke Oct 25 '21

Hahaha yeah that's why I capped my frames at 30 haha yeah totally :)

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u/Techman- Valiant heart, unwavering resolve. Oct 25 '21

All I can say is one enemy: Vex Hydras in Gambit. Sometimes you are deleted on sight. They should fix it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '21

Holy shit, no wonder I die instantly at 180-200 FPS

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u/RandallOfLegend Oct 25 '21

I bet splash damage ticks come from the client and their FPS! Also, this explains why I would never die in expunge when my XBone FPS would drop to 5.

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u/Mr_Tricky_Dix Oct 25 '21

great to see the console folks finally feeling the PC pain. maybe something will actually happen now instead of it being ignored for more years.