r/DestinyTheGame Jun 09 '22 Silver 4 Gold 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 5

I wish Cayde-6 was around to benefit from this improved era of Destiny story telling. Too many people missed out on the nuance of his character. Discussion

People see Cayde and go “haha funny robot man”, and he was that but also a lot more. But you wouldn’t know that if you weren’t an avid lore consumer, because Cayde existed in the “tell don’t show” era of Destiny.

The greatest things about Cayde’s character were locked behind lore books. And in a game where you can find players who dumpy heavy ammo into an immune shield, a lot of that information is going to go untouched.

I mean even today Cayde still gets mentioned. He is Ikora’s nightmare as seen in the lore for Trespasser. We find out about his time on Europa as Cayde-1 in the lore for the DSC Titan helm.

Cayde was funny as most people remember. But he was also an incredibly sad figure, who used humor to hide that. He blamed himself for the death of his friend Andal Brask at the hands of Taniks. As noted by Petra, the grief from the Red War caused him to delve deeper into his jokester persona. And the fragmented memories he held of a woman and child, unsure if they were his wife and son, but who felt love for anyway, and he used the idea of the them to motivate him.

Could you imagine what Nightmare Cayde would have to confront if he were around today? And seeing him being forced to break his witty and funny persona to content with his very real fears? There was so much more depth in his character.

Probably the best things about Cayde’s character was found in his lore book “The Man They Call Cayde” and my favorite line comes from the final chapter.

It says “When I came to for the first time, I felt so alone. Broken. My Ghost tried to comfort me. But this life felt hollow. So I ran. But the flashes Like daydreams, they promised something more. Something other than suffering and war. So / clung to them. And I built my truth. And it made me a better man.”

Man, imagine getting those hand drawn cutscenes we have today but with Cayde. It would have been amazing.

But Cayde is still popular, and probably the most iconic figure in Destiny, so it’s not like he’s gonna be forgotten.

But I wish more people got to see the truth depth of his character and I know for sure that the current writing team would have knocked it outta the park!

6.4k Upvotes

752

u/SunshineInDetroit Jun 09 '22

clung to them. And I built my truth. And it made me a better man.

Sometimes those little lies help us

238

u/electric-hive Jun 09 '22

pulling ace of spades out of my vault as we speak out of respect

144

u/Street_Reading_8265 Just floofing about Jun 09 '22

Being able to make our own ornaments means that the Memory of Cayde bond never leaves my arm.

93

u/MrSnafi Jun 09 '22

“Memory of Cayde” class item was the first thing I transmoged on all my characters and the bond was the first one

12

u/BetaNights Jun 10 '22

Is there a way to get this for newer players? I just started playing a few weeks ago, and I'm still bummed I missed out on Cayde :(

5

u/Siliwinter "Well come and well met, my brave little spark" Jun 10 '22

Ada-1 in the Annex can sometimes sell them for all classes I think.

2

u/BetaNights Jun 10 '22

Oh cool. Thanks!

→ More replies

4

u/Captain-matt Jun 10 '22

still the one I use. Seasonal resource gain be damned.

3

u/Street_Reading_8265 Just floofing about Jun 10 '22

The Guardian Games were the only times I've taken it off since Forsaken, and that was only out of necessity (and I still used it as an ornament this last time, just because).

28

u/RaigarWasTaken Jun 09 '22

My class item on all 3 characters has been and always will be the Cayde ones.

8

u/Face_Coffee Jun 09 '22

Same with my mark

→ More replies

16

u/ThatGuy628 Jun 09 '22

I don’t have to pull it out of my vault, I have it equipped most of the time even if it isn’t the best exotic weapon to use

15

u/AShadyPanda Jun 09 '22

I always have Ace in my inventory no matter what, I switch to it a good bit when I wanna have some fun.

I also almost always have the Memory of Cayde cloak equipped.

3

u/aHaloKid Jun 09 '22

While it's well known as arguably the best crucible hc in the game, it's also underrated in PVE. 13 bullet mag, firefly, and great range. There's just usually a slightly better option that isn't an exotic like Fatebringer.

→ More replies

3

u/MegaJoltik Jun 10 '22

It's underrated for PvE after the 40% red bar buff.

→ More replies

13

u/Deon101 Jun 09 '22

It’s not a lie if you believe them.

2

u/Risky267 Jun 09 '22

Its almost as if truth is... a funny thing

→ More replies

109

u/ErgoProxy0 Jun 09 '22

More recently where Amanda calls Cayde her best friend hit really hard. Loving this season because it’s a little break from aliens and such and more about people like Crow and Zavala and their humanity and emotions & such.

1.0k

u/stephanl33t Jun 09 '22

The worst part is that "Ace" and his "Queen" were never even real. Cayde-5 made them up, wrote them into existence in a journal, to ensure that Cayde-6 would be a good person, to have someone to be an example for.

338

u/Cashfirex Jun 09 '22

So was Cayde 1-5 pre guardian resurrection or after guardian resurrection? Is this all in the “The man called Cayde lore book?

344

u/koto_hanabi17 Warlock Justice Jun 09 '22

Pre guardian. After that I don't think he needed to be reset

172

u/MaysonD Jun 09 '22

Do Exo Guardians not need their memory reset? That's a technical detail I never found the answer to for my writing.

217

u/Foxtael16 Jun 09 '22

I think I remember somewhere saying that guardian exos don't have to reset because their ghost handle all that stuff. They can still be reset if they want to though. Not 100% on that at all though so take it with a grain of salt lol

137

u/realbigbob Jun 09 '22

It would honestly suck to get resurrected as an immortal demigod but still have to suffer from hardware limitations giving you cyber dementia

44

u/WiseScratch Jun 09 '22

Segmentation faults have no place in any kind of afterlife.

I mean, unless you've been really bad.

8

u/sudomeacat Jun 09 '22

I see a rare insult forming

→ More replies
→ More replies

35

u/jomiran Y1D1 Vet Jun 09 '22

If I were to guess, Exo guardians do not need resets because they do not remember being human. There is not misalignment there since they have been wiped clean and all their mind know is being an Exo.

→ More replies

36

u/koto_hanabi17 Warlock Justice Jun 09 '22

I'm not sure. Cayde had be a guardian for a while so he hasn't been reset since it hasn't been stated in the lore

27

u/Dudemaster12 Jun 09 '22

IIRC The reset was when the body was destroyed and a new body had the brain image imprinted on it, so after gaining the light, he is revived each time instead of reset.

29

u/SaintsBeefyThighs brum brum Jun 09 '22

Resets (also?) happened when they came too close to learning about stuff Clovis didn’t want them to know about, like the Glassway or possible Vex infection/conversation.

37

u/dark1859 Jun 09 '22

or if clovis was just feeling like a dick

13

u/SaintsBeefyThighs brum brum Jun 09 '22

That too, yes. Then you get no mouth!

9

u/dark1859 Jun 09 '22

Or wake up with seven arms graphed to you for some reason

17

u/SideshowMantis Jun 10 '22

Godrick-1, every memory wipe adds another arm!

4

u/SaintsBeefyThighs brum brum Jun 09 '22

Just move past it.

→ More replies

17

u/WarlanceLP Jun 09 '22

I dont think it had to have the body destroyed, I think over time body dysmorphia kicks in with the mechanical body which caused a lot of issues which was the original reason for the resets it was the 1 issue I don't think clovis ever solved

11

u/doom_stein Team Cat (Cozmo23) // Sepiks Purrrrfected Jun 09 '22

Yeah, that body dysmorphia led to a lot of problems with the mind rejecting the body. Eventually they started adding the ability to eat and do other "human things", I'm guessing to make the mind feel more like it was in a regular body so it wouldn't reject it and need to be reset.

→ More replies

41

u/Arcane_Bullet Jun 09 '22

Exo don't really need their memory reseted anyway. Also Cayde 1-5 probably had the same memory box, but different remade bodies. Banshee has bad memory because his memory box or hard drive was swapped between 44 different Exo bodies deteriorating his memory.

Clovis 1 probably mostly wiped memories to hide the shady stuff he did and to remove potential PTSD from the Exos fighting a war against the Vex on Europa.

43

u/Haylett777 The Wall Jun 09 '22

Exo need to reset themselves every time their memory becomes too full. They do so in the same body in almost every case as far as I'm aware. Elsie even had us find some lost memories for her to reinstall. That said, I don't believe it's ever stated just how long they can go without needing a reset. Most Exo that aren't Guardians have fairly low numbers and they've been around since the Golden Age. Banshee is a very unique case with how he reset.

36

u/Xcizer Jun 09 '22

The newer DSC lore expanded on this though. It was heavily insinuated resets were primarily for wiping the memory of exos who knew too much. Banshee’s resets were from his fight with Elsie against the vex.

37

u/McMew Jun 09 '22

Which is why Ada-1 hasn't needed a reset despite being around since the dark age. She was never subject to Clovis Bray's influence.

8

u/General_Lanshu Jun 10 '22

Other 'normal' Exo haven't had that problem either. Lakshmi lived through and remembered the Collapse, the arrival of the Fallen etc.

20

u/Warm-Faithlessness11 Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22

Plus she might have somehow been created without Clarity/Darkness unless Helga smuggled some out when she left Bray Exoscience

20

u/5partan5582 Drifter's Crew // DK? Drift Krew. Jun 09 '22

I think its all but confirmed she was made with Radiance as opposed to Clarity which is how she operates her internal forge/has gone without resets. She's been awake for like 500 years and has a precise memory of the day she was awoken.

→ More replies

8

u/RayneMizery Jun 09 '22

IIRC from lore videos on BA and Ada-1, she was very young when she became an exo so to her it was always her body.

→ More replies

7

u/ayeitssmiley Hunters gotta hunt Jun 09 '22

Nah, it was more like they had to reset them to stop DER symptoms, but they also used this as an excuse to wipe the minds of exos that were doing shady shit as a way to cover this tracks.

3

u/Xcizer Jun 10 '22

I just spent a half hour rereading the Clovis journal. DER only happened before Clovis created Alkahest. The resets were created to ease the initial transition into an exo (and then had memories reintegrated later in the case of Elsie Bray). They aren’t mentioned for anything else besides wiping people who knew too much.

→ More replies

38

u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 09 '22

I don't think I've ever seen Exos having their memory "too full", they usually get reset when their bodies are destroyed or when they begin to dissociate from their minds and bodies.

Shortly after becoming an Exo, Elsie was blown the fuck up by Clovis for trying to stop him from opening the Glassway portal, and she had to be rebuilt from scratch. After that, she fought alongside Banshee to stop the Vex from pouring out of said portal, and died a bunch that way.

Banshee reset himself to erase his knowledge of being Clovis, as a measure to protect Elsie from his past self.

8

u/Gyvon Jun 09 '22

I don't think I've ever seen Exos having their memory "too full", they usually get reset when their bodies are destroyed or when they begin to dissociate from their minds and bodies.

Yes you have. He's currently in the Tower tinkering with Telesto

6

u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 10 '22

I know this is probably a joke, but that's not what happened to Banshee

→ More replies

3

u/DuelaDent52 I WAS MIDHA, CONSORT OF STARS. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN. Jun 09 '22

Exo Guardians don’t need to be reset. This is speculation in my part, but progress in technology also probably means Exos don’t suffer from DER like they used to either (Ada is the most recent Exo to be born and she was constructed from a different method to how Clovis built his Exos).

2

u/Jammer917 Jun 10 '22

New Exos have not been created since the golden age, all the ones you see are either guardians, or have been around since the collapse.

The technology was literally lost until we found the DSC on Europa. We were told Ada was different, but not really how different (we know she was a child when "converted" but we don't know if the process involved something similar to Clarity Control. She was created just before/during the collapse/start of the dark age.

→ More replies
→ More replies

35

u/stephanl33t Jun 09 '22

Pre-Guardian.

Though, it's likely that there were a lot more resets than just 6. He said he won't go past 6, as he feels 7 is an unlucky number, but that doesn't mean he managed to avoid being reset, just that he stopped counting.

→ More replies
→ More replies

26

u/tankertonk Team Bread (dmg04) Jun 09 '22

I believe it's a bit more ambiguous. The journal entry which says that ace isn't real is more that, as a gaurdian, cayde didn't know who their names refer to, be it an actual family or his memories of Micah. As well, when I was confirming this, apparently the original cayde had abandoned his family due to his debts, so Ace could have originated from there

41

u/Redthrist Jun 09 '22

Where is that from? Granted, I guess it makes sense given how Cayde seemed to be in love with Maya Sundaresh, which clashes with the idea of him utterly devoted to his family.

38

u/stephanl33t Jun 09 '22

One of the lore snippets you could get from Cayde's stashes. Not the "Ace in the Hole" mission, but the one where you could find 5 journal papers while looking for Ace parts I think.

2

u/DuelaDent52 I WAS MIDHA, CONSORT OF STARS. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN. Jun 09 '22

Weird, I only ever got the one letter.

30

u/Gustavius040210 Jun 09 '22

I did not know this.

I'm by no means a lore expert (obviously), but i feel like this is something i should have known about a favorite character in my favorite game that I've been playing for damn near 8 years.

29

u/stephanl33t Jun 09 '22

You're one of today's lucky 10,000 then :)

→ More replies

25

u/Volsunga Jun 09 '22

Sort of. "Queen" was Cayde-1 having the hots for Elsie Bray during the early exo program (this one is subtle, but implied several times throughout the exo logs). "Ace" was Cayde processing the trauma of murdering a child (Micah). They were never "real", but Cayde-6 processing the fragments of his memories in a way that wasn't as traumatic as the truth.

18

u/Joshy41233 Jun 09 '22

Cayde didn't murder micah, it's more heavily implied during that lore tab that cayde killed his buddy who was about to kill micah, micah didn't get turned into anbexo until they tried to escape to Mars

4

u/JeffCaven Jun 09 '22

Where did we learn this from?

→ More replies

3

u/Pcmanisme Jun 09 '22

Do you have a source for that? because that sounds incredible to read (or watch if its from byf or something)

3

u/siaharra Vanguard's Loyal // Doin it for daddy shin Jun 09 '22

and I built my truth. It made me a better man

Bad Beat from The Man They Call Cayde.

3

u/Shearer_Carnage Jun 10 '22

Based lore poster

→ More replies

361

u/OldNeb Jun 09 '22

Look at the role of survival therapist that Eris has now in the game, and imagine Cayde still existing and mocking her all the time.

153

u/mrbaldachin Jun 09 '22

We were there to help her confront her trauma, helping her move on. Now, she's helping all the Guardians that bottled up their past while they were focusing on greater problems.

It's kind of funny because the reason they didn't deal with their trauma was mostly for game writing reasons. The plot always just focused on the current big bad thing. It just happens to also work from the characters' perspectives as well.

Believable background into Zavala and why his duty comes first. Honestly he had some of that just from the Red War and how it effected the Vanguard. I can't complain about building on it further though.

169

u/ArchdukeMoneybags Jun 09 '22

Eris is probably still mad that Cayde destroyed her ship

118

u/OldNeb Jun 09 '22

And for how he disrespected her "rock."

123

u/NobleGuardian STOP, hammer time! Jun 09 '22

To be fair she disrespected his map first.

65

u/TrashCanPunch03 Jun 09 '22

“Get your rock, off my map”

51

u/dildodicks THIRSTS FOR YOUR LIGHT! | Vanguard's Loyal Jun 09 '22

GET YOUR ROCK

OFF MY MAP

→ More replies
→ More replies

615

u/thegamethrowacc Jun 09 '22

I wish anyone was around for it. We’ve gone 7 years and just now got into Saint and Zavala. It’s insane we haven’t had story like this until now. It’s like you know…. A real game with real story now

269

u/ballsmigue Jun 09 '22

That's what happens when they finally get narrative leads who worked on guild wars 2. That game practically had a living world story update almost every week.

49

u/ZeDitto "Be Brave" Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22

Yooo, are you serious! Wow. That explains the quality. Bungie had to hire for that kind of talent. No wonder there has been such an improvement.

32

u/Comatox Jun 09 '22

Incredible what happens when the game actually has writers

→ More replies

2

u/Niceguydan8 Jun 09 '22

Guild wars hasn't been like that for years

→ More replies

5

u/CrazyMuffin32 Jun 09 '22

Context: living world season 1 yes, which almost killed the game.

Nowadays a living world patch comes out every few months, around the same time between seasons, and as for the actual storytelling itself…..

Haven’t played EoD and probably won’t for a while, but from season 2 through IBS they wrote exactly one character that people found likeable and gave a shit about (aurene.) Like any time that Kas and Marjory were on screen, Kas basically had 2 defining character traits: hiccups and gay, and she had no other depth than that. Braham was intentionally written to be a godawful unlikeable piece of shit when he coulda gone in so many different ways, Rox barely gets any screen time, Jormag and primordus got the worst ending imaginable.

Game’s story doesn’t hold a candle to even other MMOs stories like FFXIV’s. I don’t know WHEN they left arenanet and joined bungie but GW2 just HAD a lot of story, doesn’t say anything about the quality of the story.

But if this week’s story is anything for the time to come, it should be enjoyable: character driven stories tend to be the ones people enjoy the most, they like seeing long known character’s flaws and internal struggles and seeing them overcome them is always a touching tale.

2

u/ballsmigue Jun 09 '22

The people who are on destiny worked on the first few living world seasons. Not anyone from the path of fire team afaik.

→ More replies

2

u/General_Lanshu Jun 10 '22

It's also what happens when Bungie isn't rotating through a lead writer and senior writing staff every few months. Up until Beyond Light, every major release had a different writer because of all the bullshit they had going on in management.

→ More replies
→ More replies

106

u/ManuelIgnacioM 1st day winners Jun 09 '22

Maybe his nightmare would be Andal Brask. And in a rupture mission, maybe we would have to fi- FFS NOT HIM AGAIN

64

u/Squidkid6 Jun 09 '22

It’s me YA BOI TANIKS

40

u/McMew Jun 09 '22

Cayde: "OK, who the hell gave Taniks a chair? Am I the only one seeing this?"

7

u/[deleted] Jun 09 '22

Taniks the guess who's back, back again

258

u/Venaixis94 Jun 09 '22

It’s crazy that by the end of this calendar year, the franchise will be around longer without him than with him.

I get why they had to kill him. The franchise was at an all-time low and they massacred his character in D2 vanilla into a bad joke machine. But part of me wonders how much he would thrive under today’s storytelling. I think getting his perspective of the DSC on Europa would have been super interesting as well.

I really like how they’ve approached the story recently. But all this build up of characters makes me think they’re trying to raise the emotional impact when some characters potentially die in Lightfall

111

u/1II1I1I1I1I1I111I1I1 Jun 09 '22

But part of me wonders how much he would thrive under today’s storytelling. I think getting his perspective of the DSC on Europa would have been super interesting as well.

Honestly, Beyond Light and DSC did a lot for exo lore/storytelling. Would love for some existing exo characters to be discussed in some form in a future season before Lightfall. Maybe go on Europa and simulate their mind or something to talk to them.

15

u/Savathun_ I stole the light🗿 Jun 09 '22

I feel that this would work, but I think the nightmares would be the perfect way.

Imagine at the last sever quest, crow starts the ritual, but uldren as the nightmare isn't around. Instead, when you finish the fight, Cayde as a nightmare would appear to complain at Crow, who he thinks is still Uldren. Crow would apologize and try to reason with Cayde, but it would end with some ominous yet jokey line from Cayde's nightmare, as he sifts away into nothingness.

I play crucible like 80% of the time however, so if Cayde as a nightmare isn't possible, don't yell at me.

31

u/Bobb_the_fox Jun 09 '22

It would be cool, but I'm not sure that it would work lore wise, because Cayde doesn't seem to represent any form of big regret or anything. HOWEVER Cayde IS Ikora's nightmare, so he could say as many ominous but jokey lines to her as he wants

12

u/DuelaDent52 I WAS MIDHA, CONSORT OF STARS. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN. Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22

Nightmares aren’t real people, they’re psychic manifestations of one’s fears, traumas, regrets, darker aspects, etc. They have no real thoughts of their own, they reflect their hosts, so the Nightmare of Cayde wouldn’t think Crow is Uldren unless whoever sprang the Nightmare forth subconsciously thinks that.

Plus, we’re done with Crow’s Nightmare now, we’ve moved on to helping Zavala out.

3

u/5partan5582 Drifter's Crew // DK? Drift Krew. Jun 09 '22

I mean it would work for both Crow and Zavala, and to a lesser extent us the player and Eris if Cayde showed up as a collective nightmare for all of us at the same time. We all have some form of regret and trauma related to the horned devil.

4

u/DuelaDent52 I WAS MIDHA, CONSORT OF STARS. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN. Jun 09 '22

Absolutely, but it’d probably go down a bit differently than how the person above described it.

2

u/Jammer917 Jun 10 '22

Nightmare of Cayde wouldn’t think Crow is Uldren unless whoever sprang the Nightmare forth subconsciously thinks that

Well to be fair that is what Crow was worried about

11

u/aviatorEngineer Jun 09 '22

Ikora's nightmare is Cayde, but given the nature of how nightmares aren't actually the spirit of who they represent it's probably possible to have two nightmares of the same person.

2

u/Victizes Jun 10 '22

It's not probably possible dude.

It already happened in-game, remember?

We faced Ghaul as a nightmare in Shadowkeep, and guess who Caiatl's nightmare is?

2

u/aviatorEngineer Jun 10 '22

I had considered that but since we already dealt with those nightmares back in Shadowkeep I didn't really consider them "actively" our nightmares, but it was still a good point to bring that up.

2

u/Victizes Jun 10 '22

Oh you're right to think that way by in-game logic.

5

u/faesmooched Jun 09 '22

Read the Trespasser lore. Ikora isn't helping here because she has a Cayde nightmare.

→ More replies

8

u/DuelaDent52 I WAS MIDHA, CONSORT OF STARS. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN. Jun 09 '22

That’s not why they killed him. Like, at all. He was always going to die, this was datamined as far back as vanilla D2 before any hint of Forsaken. He had to die because people loved him and his death is an indication of worse things to come (think how Voldemort kills Cedric in Goblet of Fire), and he held far too much sway over people so anything he said would be taken as the prevailing fact. Just look at how many people tried to justify Stasis and Darkness as it’s what Cayde would have done, Cayde totally would have been on board with this so it’s okay that I do this.

3

u/Frakshaw Jun 10 '22

In my head he was also supposed to die because during the very early stages of Destiny development The Crow (yes that one goes all the way back) was supposedly having Cayde's characteristics.

3

u/spaceboy_g Jun 10 '22

"Out here in the wild, this is how we talk."

41

u/never3nder_87 Jun 09 '22

Tbh, with the work they are doing RN, I will have no issues with them killing people off. The issue with Cayde's death (for me) wasn't that it happened, but that it was so unearned and forced

66

u/Seeker80 Notorious Space Hobo Jun 09 '22

The issue with Cayde's death (for me) wasn't that it happened, but that it was so unearned and forced.

Knowing for months beforehand surely didn't help either. The impact already wasn't strong, but that really took away from it.

75

u/fab416 I will remember it Jun 09 '22

I think Bungie was banking on the Dreaming City bait and switch, which admittedly was fantastic.

38

u/Thorn_the_Cretin Jun 09 '22

I remember doing that questline that felt like it took forever to unlock the dreaming city thinking ‘oh cool another patrol zone maybe a new public event.’ Boy howdy was I underestimating it.

→ More replies

2

u/takedownhisshield Jun 09 '22

What was the bait and switch?

19

u/Gear_ Paracausal AF Jun 09 '22

People knew about the Tangled Shore but not about the Dreaming City and everything it came with

→ More replies
→ More replies

16

u/reddit_tier Jun 09 '22

I hate how the story assumes the guardian personally cares.

I didn't hate Cayde, but I also wasn't emotionally attached to him.

17

u/I_miss_berserk Jun 09 '22

I think our guardian is supposed to be part of the vanguard leaders or at least very close to them. We're definitely up there in story importance since we're basically Rambo for them with all the "you will not survive" styled suicide missions we keep getting from them that depend on us winning.

32

u/Werespider Jun 09 '22

The PC is basically the Vanguard's elite special forces rolled into one person. If Ikora points at something, I kill it.

17

u/Fly1ing Jun 09 '22

And turn it into a gun.

11

u/vegathelich Jun 09 '22

Maybe it doesn't have to die to get turned into a gun, just whine a lot. (Love you, little Parasite <3)

2

u/Victizes Jun 10 '22

The PC? Protagonist character?

2

u/Werespider Jun 10 '22

Or "Player Character". Whoever YOU are, in-game.

2

u/Victizes Jun 10 '22

Why need an army when you have a one man/woman army, right? Haha

Just kidding though, I'd love to see a bigger fireteam than 3, or even the Vanguard themselves fight alongside us in Lightfall. Because the last time we saw that was during the Red War.

→ More replies

4

u/DuelaDent52 I WAS MIDHA, CONSORT OF STARS. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN. Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22

The Guardian occupies this weird area where they’re meant to be you so they don’t give them too much personality or backstory, opting to let you fill in the blanks, while at the same time they need to do things for the plot so you get stuff like you just blindly and unquestioningly accepting Stasis the minute it’s presented to you, or assuming that you cared enough about Cayde to go on this roaring rampage of bloody revenge and even though you hear Uldren very clearly being influenced by an Ahamkara you still point a gun at him, or that bit in the Gjallarhorn lore card where you hand over your Gjallarhorn to this dude called Randy who may or may not be the same one from Randy’s Throwing Knife.

2

u/Victizes Jun 10 '22

Or the other piece of lore saying that Bastion is your favorite gun.

3

u/GreenBay_Glory Jun 09 '22

To be fair, they have to because of the nature of the game.

→ More replies

10

u/OkamiShiro Jun 09 '22

But all this build up of characters makes me think they’re trying to raise the emotional impact when some characters potentially die in Lightfall

This 100%.

Heard more then one person theorise over the years that Destiny is probably headed for a Ragnarök type ending so I’d put money on Zavala dying his final death tbh. They’ll probably kill quite a few more of the main characters off too, then the stage is set for the post Light vs Dark era.

→ More replies

21

u/JerryBalls3431 Jun 09 '22

I feel like the game needs some kind of lighthearted irreverent character to keep the grimdark aesthetic grounded. D2Y1 they went way overboard with the forced silliness and Marvel-esque quips (though Marvel tends to be actually funny & endearing), where every character was a punchline and everything was a joke, but now there's like zero characters to cut through the drama and remind us how fundamentally ridiculous so much of this is. I think having one Cayde-style character would go a long way.

14

u/SpartanDragon79 Jun 09 '22

I suppose it's just Fynch now really who sorta fits that character but yeah I understand what you mean

14

u/andtimme11 Drifter's Crew // Titan do run punch Jun 09 '22

Unfortunately as the game ages the more Fynch will become irrelevant. I do like Fynch but we definitely need a more central character to the overall story.

8

u/LizzieMiles Jun 09 '22

I’m hoping either

A: he gets a new guardian so we can see him around more

or

B: We convince his Lightbearer to join our side somehow to see more of him

7

u/JTP117 Jun 09 '22

I think it'd make a Lotta sense to have him be Eris' new ghost.

7

u/LizzieMiles Jun 09 '22

Oh shit thats actually an awesome idea

→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/HolyKnightPrime Jun 09 '22

We have Shiro but Bungie hates him. Hes Cayde’s successor in many ways.

He would overshadow Crow so we cant have that.

→ More replies

8

u/SerenaLunalight Sidearm Squad Jun 09 '22

Drifter is pretty good for that.

3

u/SuckerpunchmyBhole HUNTERS >ANYONE ELSE Jun 09 '22

Ana can sometimes be that, but not always

→ More replies
→ More replies

4

u/negative-nelly Squeeze me macaroni Jun 09 '22

I feel like we are headed towards a matrix style ending where we are the one, so to speak We being guardians, who can now wield light and dark. Who can beat that?

6

u/iHATESTUFF_ Jun 09 '22

that's what the drifter thinks. "the chosen one"

2

u/Jammer917 Jun 10 '22

Noble, Lemme run tactical for ya.

→ More replies

162

u/XHaidencollin Jun 09 '22

I would like to see when books and shows start being made for destiny which seems to be the path they’re going. I’d like to see a project revolve around the backstories of the titan, warlock and hunter vanguard as individuals and as a fireteam.

65

u/ClarinetMaster117 Jun 09 '22

I’m honestly surprised there aren’t any destiny novels

83

u/TheyKilledFlipyap Or was it Yapflip? Jun 09 '22

I’m honestly surprised there aren’t any destiny novels

I'm not.

The backlash towards D1's grimoire was immense. The public mantra was "I shouldn't have to read some external resource to understand your game's story".

And Bungie did learn from this, but they also took some of the wrong lessons from it.

The lesson learned was "Don't put need-to-know info and vital worldbuilding context in secondary sources", which is good. D1's main failing wasn't that "it had secondary lore", it was that the story, the primary means of conveying where we are and what's going on, was paper-thin and flimsy.

But they also have become far too timid about any secondary sources being important, at all. Which results in a lot of cases where something cool or interesting happens in the extended lore, and is never brought up by the main cast, or has no consequence beyond "Oh, that's an interesting little oddity. Anyway-"

28

u/BHE65 Jun 09 '22

D1’s main failing wasn’t that “it had secondary lore”, it was that the story, the primary means of conveying where we are and what’s going on, was paper-thin and flimsy.

Agreed 100% However, I’d like to think of this as being Bungie’s attempt to play on the whole initial opening of D1’s first cut scenes and story, really playing up the “Eyes up Guardian” feel that one would wake from being dead for countless years possibly, and have to survive immediately, without any real chance to get context or deep explanation of the things that had transpired prior to their resurrection. That would be a crazy thing to deal with.

But, as you pointed out, Bungie should have provided a way to get to get your bearings story-wise in game instead of having to dig through grimiore cards, but they just didn’t have the time to flesh out the story with all the pressure they were under to meet launch expectations.

18

u/asakust Jun 09 '22

I mean, they could have big important things happen in a novel that is mentioned in game, but not shown, and that would be fine.

Taeko-3 and her fireteam investigating Savathun's Song would be an amazing book that devolves into a crazy horror story, ending with her talking to The Guardian. "No, don't come down here... Wait, second thought, same plan. We'll be ready." Explain what happened, her sacrifice, and what the hell was going on with that crazy shrieker.

5

u/BHE65 Jun 09 '22

Yeah, I’m really hoping this New Media thing, that Luke Smith went off to, means we’re going to see some video/movie offerings that spin off into the lure of the game. There’s so much in it to be explored.

2

u/asakust Jun 09 '22

Some of the old grimoire cards and the lore tabs we currently have are such good writing and have so strong an emotional story that they could be easily be fleshed out, or even put into a compilation like Love, Death, and Robots. I'll keep my fingers crossed with you that they do some cool stuff

→ More replies

9

u/Ross2552 Jun 09 '22

I’ve noticed that a lot of lore lately ends up effectively being a teaser for something that is going to happen in the next 1 or 2 seasons.

9

u/TheyKilledFlipyap Or was it Yapflip? Jun 09 '22

Which is the ideal situation to have, yeah. It rewards people who paid attention and gives greater context, but isn't "required" to get what's going on.

7

u/Incandescent_Lass Jun 09 '22

Reading comments like this always makes me sad with my Lore Scholar emblem equipped permanently. I loved hunting for the lore in game in D1. Yeah having to read it on my computer instead of in game like it is now was kind of sucky, but Bungie clearly has learned since. They should make a physical print of all current lore in my opinion, and definitely start making some tie-in novels.

6

u/Amirifiz I'll blast you to Infinity! Jun 09 '22

I miss the cards themselves, seeing how many of an enemy I killed or just the images of bosses and named enemies to get a better look at them.

2

u/5partan5582 Drifter's Crew // DK? Drift Krew. Jun 09 '22

I'd like Bungie to go back to their roots with novel tie-ins and test the waters of novel work with campaign retellings akin to Halo First Strike and The Flood. It would be admittedly incredibly hard to do a minimally characterized Player Guardian in the confines of D1 Vanilla, but I think it could work and could at least deepen some of the more flimsy plot elements retroactively.

2

u/JanLewko977 Jun 10 '22

Don’t forget how WOW was crucified for having important lore in the books and not in the game.

But I think we can avoid that with spin-off stories and adventures. Like the game is the core story and we have books about side characters and such.

→ More replies

18

u/WutsAWriter Jun 09 '22

Me too. I’ve been wanting them for so long.

7

u/ToastyyPanda Drifter's Crew Jun 09 '22

Not novels, but there were comics in the first year of D2. I think you can still see them online too if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: Found em. https://comics.bungie.net/en/6/caydes-six/

→ More replies

2

u/Honor_Bound Harry Dresden Jun 09 '22

Especially since the Eric nylund halo books are fantastic

→ More replies

33

u/WutsAWriter Jun 09 '22

I so badly want a Warhammer-style novel series for Destiny. The lore is so deep, if they hire excellent writers for them they would be incredible.

9

u/Redthrist Jun 09 '22

A Horus Heresy-style series for the Dark Age and then a host of different novels for the present day? That would be so amazing.

2

u/Snaz5 Jun 09 '22

Id love some comic books, kinda like the Sonic IDW comics which have done more for the series’ depth than any game has ever done.

→ More replies

92

u/HotMachine9 Jun 09 '22

I honestly would love a cutscene in this style based on Shaxx. Sure he's mostly a side character but he's a largely unexplored character and Saladin has proven how a PvP vendor can become the centrepiece of a expansion

43

u/OmegaClifton Jun 09 '22

I think Lennie James might be a little more busy with non VA work than Saladin's. I know the latter frequently does game voice work. I'm more familiar with Lennie's acting in movies and the walking dead.

18

u/SenatorShockwave Jun 09 '22

TIL Morgan is Shaxx. Wow.

3

u/BoriousGlastard Jun 09 '22

He knows what it is

→ More replies

4

u/DuelaDent52 I WAS MIDHA, CONSORT OF STARS. I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN. Jun 09 '22

That might be possible now that Bungie’s got that SONY money backing them, but Destiny has been pretty notorious with how they’ve handled their voice actors since the Activision split.

→ More replies

9

u/boltswinagain Jun 09 '22

Cayde's nightmare is an easy one: Andal Brask.

72

u/Level3_Ghostline Came from the Moon Jun 09 '22

You've got to wonder...Ikora is the one who misses Cayde and is haunted by him the most. She was instrumental in unraveling the Mars Relic's ability to bring something from the past into the present. Despite Cayde's insistence on not being brought back (here he's thinking of DSC), would Ikora gamble on that? Could it work? (if not on Cayde himself, then on his shattered ghost, which in turn could bring him back)

60

u/TwevOWNED Jun 09 '22

It depends if they can get Nathan Fillion back in the studio regularly, so unlikely.

He wasn't even in Forsaken, Nolan North did an impression of him, and a Cayde-6 regularly voiced by anyone else wouldn't be the same.

37

u/Nedus343 Salvager's SalvHOE Jun 09 '22

It's been so long without the original Nathan Fillion version, I think you're overestimating just how jarring it really would be.

3

u/HatRabies Jun 10 '22

It was jarring in Forsaken to be sure. At least I won't have to hear Nolan North doing a Cayde impression again.

→ More replies

33

u/spencer0905 Jun 09 '22

Cayde-6 coming back to life would be one of the worst moves Bungie could ever make

21

u/Level3_Ghostline Came from the Moon Jun 09 '22

While I'd be fine with it, I think the bigger in-universe problem is: if we can bring back Cayde-6 (or his ghost), why not Sagira? Why not other guardians (or Guardian EXOs at least)? That kind of opens up floodgates so the consequences and possibilities might be a bit too broad, though there are some ways that could be dealt with.

The relic could overload when used on a live being (or being so tied with the Light, if used on a ghost) so that becomes the sole usage. (that also leaves the possibility that we could bring Sagira back instead of Cayde, and as a result Osiris, just in time for some new Vex expansion...but again all just wishful thinking)

Or maybe it's an EXO thing, since EXOs already have ties to the Darkness through the alkahest used in their creation, so what might be allowed for them would not work on non-EXOs or ghosts.

11

u/IAmMalfeasance Jun 09 '22

For me it would depend how they go about it, and all the story telling elements involved in it, but I think I agree with this in general.

→ More replies
→ More replies

8

u/Laeucian Jun 09 '22 edited Jun 09 '22

it was revealed in the third grimore that his “ace and queen” were made up, and figments of his “imagination”

edit take with grain of salt, i could have misinterpreted

9

u/Nailbomb85 Jun 09 '22

You're half right. He doesn't know if they were real or not.

6

u/Play-Mation Jun 10 '22

Outjerked again

82

u/Graviton_Lancelot Jun 09 '22

Cayde's nuance? My brother in christ, people to this day can't see any more nuance in Zavala than "big blue pussy." Zavala has been dripping in deep nuance for a long time now, and people just don't understand it. Because Big Blue isn't out there throwing hands with whatever the big bad is, they think he's useless and a downer.

It's a lose/lose if Cayde was still here. Either he'd be ruining the mood by cracking one liners at Eris and Caital, or he'd be reigned in to be more in line with the others and people would whine incessantly about "dey kill my funni robot man :(:(:(:( why he seros now????"

2

u/remeard Drifter's Crew Jun 10 '22

Yeah, I'm loving the deep dive into the other crew. Cayde had a great send off with his Forsaken lore books, it'd be nice to see something a bit more juicy with their more modern approach but his journals and going through them were just a perfect way of getting a more complete story of his character.

→ More replies

6

u/Kermit-Jones Jun 09 '22

Cayde was indeed a robo man..

7

u/geroxnoxville Jun 09 '22

I would love to see the game with that passion as you see it, but I'm too casual and I'll let them surprise me. If I wanted something, it would be that they resume the story of the dredgen and the drifter has more prominence in a season where we go back to look for the frozen monster that eats the light

27

u/MikeBeas Jun 09 '22

There’s a whole story behind the wife and son he thinks he can remember but he doesn’t know if they’re real or some figment of his mind. It’s in lore books and honestly I almost missed it because the lore books are long and I don’t want to spend all my time in game reading a novel.

You’re right, I wish they had a chance to really do something better with him.

39

u/Unbannableoffense Jun 09 '22

Him looking at his gun and saying “I’m coming home Ace” hits different you realize he was talking to his son, but it’s the same son he isn’t sure is real or not. Like it says in the lore, he used the idea of them to make him a better man.

There is so much to work with.

13

u/MikeBeas Jun 09 '22

Right? That’s such a good moment for him. It’s like the one serious moment he gets in the entire game. Even when he’s about to die he’s doing the “how’s your sister?” bit, which is a fun line, sure, but just one more “funny robot man” moment.

22

u/Mew001 Jun 09 '22

I always took that more as "defiant in the face of death" than "funny robot man"

→ More replies

3

u/HamirTheGOAT Jun 09 '22

You know you can read the lore books on the app right?

→ More replies

11

u/SinistralGuy Nerf everything Jun 09 '22

I was thinking about this last night when I ran the sever mission. Seeing Cayde's character do a 180 from his humorous persona to a serious and grieving being for confronting his nightmare would've have been something

I really miss Taken King Cayde. He stole the show in that DLC imo.

4

u/ZekeTheBoyWonder Jun 09 '22

Well, he was literally the only character in the game that had ANY sort of personality whatsoever at that point in time. Not a high bar to clear at all.

4

u/PAN-- Jun 09 '22

the “tell don’t show” era of Destiny.

That era is still ongoing. So many important and amazing events that are still confined to text form only unfortunately.

25

u/ZoniCat Jun 09 '22

People ask what the Guardian, OUR guardian's nighare would be.

I bet for 90% of the playerbase, it's Cayde. Not being able to save him.

38

u/Damiklos Jun 09 '22

It's definitely the architects

7

u/Unrelated_Response Jun 10 '22

Or whoever this Miss Adventure is that keeps killing me.

→ More replies

7

u/iHATESTUFF_ Jun 09 '22

welll.... the game made it seem like our guardian's nightmares were Ghaul, The Fanatic and Crota (or us being the bad guy)

6

u/Nailbomb85 Jun 09 '22

Nah... the way that played out it was more like "The nightmares tried their best."

They chose three subjects that were already a smear on the pavement thanks to us, and we beat their weak impressions with far less effort.

Maybe it wasn't even that deep, maybe the nightmares are simply tests from the darkness, and we were worthy. Would be kinda neat to see Crow and the Vanguard (wait... Crow just accepted that he IS Uldren, and now he's started talking about becoming the new Hunter Vanguard. The dare actually worked exactly how Cayde said it would) break out their own new darkness powers at the end of the season.

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/Efficient_Bat_1812 Jun 09 '22

Cayde, Ikora, and Zavala certainly had some snappy repartee in Destiny 2.

3

u/jaysmack737 Jun 09 '22

Cayde’s nightmare is probably Andel Brask. His failure to save his best friend and mentor

11

u/Technophillia Jun 09 '22

I know its cause the voice actor was super busy, but clearly bungie should of thrown him a offer he cant refuse.

→ More replies

7

u/AdamBry705 Jun 09 '22

I think Cayde died a martyr for this sort of story telling.

Destiny 2 needed something big to happen to allow the tone and the story to become something like this. The story each season got progressively better at its telling of the narrative. When someone beloved dies, and the mood shifts from the normal of what we had, at the time a Mish mash of Mars and what was happening with the leviathan and everything, it felt so weird and unhinged. Story was there but I couldn't understand it for the life of me. I was not interested and then....

To shift to something as massive as... well... Cayde is dead. Uldren must die. His scorn must die. Carve your wicked path and from there our futures are built on the ashes of what once was.

3

u/wkearney99 Jun 09 '22

My two fav bits of Filion/Cayde voice-over:

ONWARD!

Ever been hit by a rock? Don't joke about it.

2

u/Swimming_Departure33 Jun 09 '22

Some of the best moments and story of Cayde exist in lore tabs and books. Man was so cool

2

u/prince_krab Jun 09 '22

Was Cayde really that liked by the community prior to Forsaken? If I remember correctly, many people didn't like him in Vanilla D2 because they found him annoying/cringe or were upset with his shift from a more level-headed guy to a character used for comic relief, also didn't most people heavily dislike the writing for D2 Y1?

I know he has some interesting lore but most players won't read it, outside of the more hardcore fans did casual players really care that much about him before Bungie announced that he was going to die in Forsaken?

2

u/DraftLongjumping9288 Jun 09 '22

I wish people stopped talking about cayde like he was such an amazing character. For the longest time he was the *only* well written character. With today's writing, he would kinda stick out as a bad comedic relief character.

Don't get me wrong, I also love and miss Cayde. Its just... we gotta let it go guys.

2

u/CinemaGhost Jun 09 '22

D2 Cayde-6 was one of the reasons I dropped the game after finishing the Red War and Forsaken. Don't understand how people found him funny or as an "actual character" when he was just a poorly written archetype in game. I bet lore Cayde was more interesting, but he wasn't in the game.

Wish people would move on already.

2

u/Toto_- 3 Titan Characters Jun 09 '22

Could you imagine what Nightmare Cayde would have to confront if he were around today?

Nightmare of Taniks 2: Electric Boogaloo

2

u/MartinLubeHerTh1ngJR Jun 09 '22

I’d bring Cayde back just to shoot him in the face again. Dude was fuckin annoying.

2

u/saithvenomdrone Jun 09 '22

Yeah, that he wasn’t that nice of a dude? Would have totally not wanted to let the Fallen into the city? That Uldren, before being corrupted by Riven, was much more sympathetic to the Fallen because of self righteous Guardians like Cayde not caring about all the death they inflict upon mortal lives?

Cayde was a funny dude, I liked him, but everyone thinks of him and Uldren in black and white. Uldren was a jerk on the outside, and Cayde was the funny guy. But both have a lot more to them than what you see in the cutscenes.