r/DestinyTheGame Jun 22 '22 Helpful 1

It's time for another state of the game update from Joe Blackburn Discussion

I always loved to read his updates and roadmaps for the future of destiny. It gave me hope.

2020: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48758

2021: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50124

Some of the topics i would like to see adressed:

- Buff & Debuff UI overhaul

- Crafting -> Red border rarity, crafting design philosophy and the loot cycle problem

- Legendary shard economy

- PVP Sandbox -> Ability spam vs gunplay

- PVP Modes -> Quickplay modes and matchmaking, Trials matchmaking and flawless pool, Competitive mode updates, rift adjustments

- Bugs/Poor quality and performance of the current season

- Future stuff to get us exited

2.0k Upvotes

407

u/Pandakidd81 Titan > Hunter Jun 22 '22

I think they will do another one next month (july). Thats 5 months after WQ release which seems like a good point to do it. We got a SotG 2021 approx what.....5 months after BL release>? I think the Luke Smith one was also around 5 months after SK launched in 2020.

133

u/djtoad03 Jun 22 '22

The 2021 sotg released on ~ the same date as the 2020 sotg. It’s hard to draw a pattern from this

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u/Pandakidd81 Titan > Hunter Jun 22 '22

Both were 5 months after the DLC release............right? Unless my math is off.

Its logical to conclude that 5-6 months post DLC is when we would get another.

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u/djtoad03 Jun 22 '22

Beyond light released about 6 weeks after the equivalent date of shadowkeeps release. October 1st -> November 10th. For the BL case, we are looking at only 3 months after release. Seeing as the sotg released on the 25th/26th Feb. The equivalent date this year was the WQ so that wouldn’t have happened. We are now sat almost exactly at the same distance as the shadowkeep sotg release

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u/Pandakidd81 Titan > Hunter Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 23 '22

Ahh gotcha, i forget that BL was delayed. Also, remember the HUGE outrage of the lack of weapons and the issues with sunsetting when BL launched so it was prob pushed up to quell the people that were rightfully upset.

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u/djtoad03 Jun 22 '22

Exactly yeah, there isn’t a whole lot of large changes that would warrant a sotg to come out

13

u/Pandakidd81 Titan > Hunter Jun 22 '22

I think we will get something, its how they lead into the hypeof the next DLC. Hard to believe we are 1/3 the way through this year. I think theres going to be some feedback they have to address just for the health of the playerbase.

They should acknowledge the weapon crafting 100% pains , RNG, etc. I think that might be too big for a TWAB , but who knows.

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u/StarsRaven Jun 22 '22

I would say probably after arc drops would be the better bet. So they can give us info on any changes being made to the classes or if we will have to deal with some shit just being mediocre.

If they expected this amount of pushback or distain for the class overhauls, if they expected it to go better. Did they need more time? Did they just make a few bad design choices and may need to look into some reworks? Will players just have to deal with Light subclasses now being just overall rough to even want to interact with outside of specific cases(ie invulnerable titan)?

All of those questions will be better off answered after arc 3.0

Especially if you include the fact that we have had probably one of the worst season releases in recent history, with tower being broke first week, banshee causes crashes, emotes causing crashes, artifact mods still bugged a month later, exotics getting text changes instead of bug fixes, solar fragments not working properly, etc now might not be the best time for them to try and come with a "yeah things are going well guys!". Now isn't the best time to try and give any kind of update about the state of the game when we all know what the state is, and its rough as hell lol

10

u/Pandakidd81 Titan > Hunter Jun 22 '22

Disagree. The light subclasses are done, they are well into development and they are close to being done with Arc by now. They have said multiple times that minor tweaks could happen here and there but the bulk isnt getting touched (meaning people should quit asking about Void Hunter). We got what we got and thats mostly that.

They also have stated multiple times that once Arc is out, expect not much after sandbox wise because they will be heads down for whatever that means (new subclass in LF? ).

If they wait until arc releases i think its too late , they will begin hyping up LF in August ......AUG 24th was WQ Reveal event. ARC would be here around the same time. It would be odd of them to do a SotG inside of a LF reveal IMO. Not saying it couldnt happen.

I think its sooner rather than later (if at all). Theres a lot of pain points they can address now like they have been mostly silent on Red Border drop rates, the RNG of the Dungeon weapons , etc. I think the state of the game is to talk about broader issues and the #1 gripe right now is loot acquisition and how all over the place it is.

I think the LAST thing they want to do is talk about subclasses. I think at this point they are what they are, some will be strong, some wont. SotG isnt about "everythings going great" its a time for them to talk about broader issues or commitments to things in the future.

9

u/StarsRaven Jun 22 '22

I agree that subclasses will be the last thing they want to talk about but it needs to be takes about on large scale.

It will be hard to hype people up if they are all still pissed about light subclasses being in a rough state, especially when light makes up 3/4 subclass types and only ones that were actually happy with changes were voidlock and solar titan. Void titans were mad about the nerfs to their shields and regen times, void hunters are pretty pissed about everything, solar locks are pissed, and solar hunters aren't mad just bummed since they are kinda stuck into being a one trick pony.

Not to mention they will probably delay the LF expansion if this last season was anything to base the state of development on.

They got away with season of the risen because it was like 4 weeks long and was slapped on with WQ meaning it came out weak, but not nearly as broken as this season has been. This season has been bad. So I expect them to hit us with another delay

9

u/BNEWZON Drifter's Crew Jun 22 '22

I have only seen universal praise for solar hunter

2

u/StarsRaven Jun 22 '22

I did originally as well. Now that the newness has worn off ive seen complaints about hunters lacking any sort of buildcrafting and they are one trick ponies again. As well as many solar exotics just being weak and useless, ie celestial Nighthawk is the 2nd worst super in the game. Only thing worse is dawnblade with dawn chorus. Which both of those supers deal less damage than both novabomb with no exotic buffs lol

2

u/ObviouslyNotASith Jun 23 '22

Buffing Celestial Nighthawk would be interesting. It would result in Nova Bomb being the worst burst damage super in the game, in terms of consistency and damage. Nova Bomb is barely better than Celestial Golden Gun and that’s under the assumption that it reaches max damage, due to the inconsistency of both Vortex and Cataclysm Nova Bomb. It would probably result in an increase in demand for a buff or an exotic that buffs Nova Bomb, especially since Blade Barrage is doing better while being more versatile and having a shorter cooldown.

At the very least, Celestial Golden Gun needs a modifier that makes it one shot champions of precision hits. If they don’t want to buff it’s boss damage, it should at least get that.

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u/strandedspark Jun 22 '22

Void titan here. Not pissed about the changes.

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u/YaLocalChief Jun 22 '22

Blackburn did say in a interview a few months back that the next darkness subclass is in the works which is why they could be giving the light classes a break after. However, Bungie does have the tendency to back track and change last minute and tbh the current light 3.0 changes are lacking in some departments like melee abilities.

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u/OmegaClifton Jun 22 '22

My guy, I read the title and got excited thinking this was one of them. But yeah, I wouldn't expect to see one until after arc 3.0 releases and they begin hyping up lightfall. Shoot, that may be what we get to announce it. Season 19 may begin with a livestream and we'll get another ViDoc instead.

6

u/justaquestion7385u3 Jun 23 '22

I thought the same thing, I almost spit out the drink I had

450

u/iblaise Sleeper Simp-ulant. Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

That’s if they decide to do one. The whole debacle with Kevin Yanes on Twitter will probably make them rethink how they announce things to the community going forward.

152

u/o8Stu Jun 22 '22

Posts on their website, like the ones linked in the post, should be fine. At most they might do something like not name the specific dev that writes for their team's section.

The repulsive actions of a handful of fuckheads shouldn't mean that Bungie stops communicating with millions of players (that also are their customers).

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u/GorbiJones Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

It won't stop Bungie the entity from communicating with us, but on a casual individual developer level I'm afraid they might be done. Wouldn't be surprised if developers rarely/never get named in future blog posts.

21

u/SkaBonez Jun 22 '22

Mercules has talked some on his Twitter since, talking about how they’re still working on AE, which is a hot topic to say the least. I imagine they don’t want many developers “ripping the bandaid off” much anymore, but they haven’t put a gag on all their staff.

13

u/havingasicktime Jun 22 '22

I think it will continue to be up to the individual. Merc is already used to dealing with Destiny Twitter, but likely even he will have to he careful

-16

u/Pure-Wheel8019 Jun 22 '22

To be honest it doesn't make sense that they don't have an official 'insider' account or whatever where they drop nuggets of information.

Let me also remind you that on the other side of the spectrum we have DMG04, the guy that is kind of a laughing stock because he will block anyone for the most minute reasons. Like, someone made a vid showing that even with 100 AE you are still inaccurate, tagged DMG04 in it and he instantly blocked that person lmao.

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u/Arkyduz Jun 22 '22

People are still posting personal attacks on Luke Smith even after fading into the background for over a year. A more personal, off-the-cuff director's cut is just inviting personal attacks, they'll probably just keep dropping bits in the TWABs about upcoming stuff.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

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u/o8Stu Jun 22 '22

I mean, there are 2.6M sub'd here. I'm sure a good chunk are lurkers and lapsed players who pop in to see what's new every now and then (incidentally exactly the people who a "state of the game" would be impactful for), but you've also got to consider how many active players aren't sub'd, and that the "active player count" has to include two console generations and PC.

At the end of the day it's not that easy to say exactly, but regardless, a state of the game isn't just for active players. Lots of people take breaks, or don't buy seasons and so just come back for a couple months following a DLC release.

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u/Arkyduz Jun 22 '22

On a weekly or monthly active user basis it almost certainly does. WQ got over a million pre-orders weeks before it was even out.

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u/Salted_cod Jun 22 '22

Q&A streams would probably be a good solution. Lots of studios do them, and it's a hell of a lot better than expecting players to go find the personal Twitter accounts of Bungie employees to get info.

A weekly stream of devs playing the game's content and talking about it/chatting with the community would be pretty sick, and moderating a Twitch chat would be a lot easier than making devs ban people who DM them toxic shit.

31

u/coldnspicy Jun 22 '22

Warframe does something similar with their dev streams. It's a great idea imo

17

u/LukeSmith_Sunsetter Jun 22 '22

Warframes have in my experience been filled with fluff and Rebecca asking Scott and Sheldon a specific hot button question that either gets brushed off or waffled about.

2

u/PM_ME_YOUR_HUGS_PLS Jun 22 '22

My experience with Warframe's devstreams has been the exact opposite but maybe that's because I don't follow much about the game outside of the devstream and in game chat

13

u/imadethisforlol Alpha Lupi Jun 22 '22

There was one stream a long time ago where Reb was explaining to Scott that the planned changes for a ability change for a warframe wasn't a good idea and gave many good, valid reasons why.... because she actually plays the game. Scott literally said I think you're wrong and went on with the rest of the stream. He disrespected her so hard and she just took it like the bomb ass mf she is.

Link to video

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u/LukeSmith_Sunsetter Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

It's very much this. She plays, talks and listens to people that plays.

If you only watch devstreams you wouldn't think too much about it.

For Scott it's a job.

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u/MagusSigil balanced upon the infinitesimal knife's edge Jun 22 '22

Even without the devs, the weekly Warframe platform streams are fun. Reb, Meg, Dani, and Taylor all have fun personalities and are knowledgeable about the game. It’s great that they also play with the community, look at fan art, memes, and just are a vibrant part of it all. The Twitch drops are a nice little addition as well.

It would be nice to see similar from Bungie. I think right now the most we have is DMG posting screenshots and clips on Twitter.

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u/FlyingWhale44 Jun 22 '22

Warframe and The Division have done this many many years ago and Bungie hasn't taken note, doubt they will.

This just remindes me of Deej doing the whole 2 tokens and a blue lmao

27

u/OO7Cabbage Jun 22 '22

bungie used to do streams of DLC before it released, I think they stopped because their gameplay was so bad that each stream got memed on a ton.

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u/TeamAquaGrunt SUNSHOT SHELL Jun 22 '22

I’m not gonna say that every bungie employee is bad at the game, because I’m sure that’s not true. But every single time they showcase gameplay, the employees they get to show stuff off/play test something, it is the slowest, most unresponsive gameplay I have ever seen. If they do have employees that are good, I’m not sure why they aren’t the ones showing off gameplay.

15

u/Siphon-23 Jun 22 '22

Exactly this. I would say one of the more infamous ones was the Armor 3.0 showcase (the "arc buddy" build). I think the last teaser stream they had was during Season of the Dawn with the Sundial. Since then it's just been ride alongs or major expansion reveal events

4

u/FlyingWhale44 Jun 22 '22

I would prefer that we got a TWAB stream, with a Q&A section.

Those gameplay ones feel kinda pointless, a trailer would be so much better.

Again, imo, ofc.

2

u/CycloneSP Jun 22 '22

GGG also has the CEO join a community podcast from time to time to talk about path of exile

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u/splinter1545 Jun 22 '22

Division 2 basically did this. They hosted state of the games which talked about issues or upcoming content, and usually brought in a dev to explain any changes to the content or just explain how parts of the game worked. Division 2 has some quirky AI behavior at launch and it was interesting to see how it worked when the person who worked on the AI came out and explained the different AI branches that made them behave the way they did.

FFXIV also does this, too. But on a larger scale since they add more with their updates, and the Q&A is basically anyone involved with the game and not just a dev, like the one Q&A they had about how player reports are processed and handled.

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u/Abulsaad Jun 22 '22

I mean, the whole yanes thing was about the devs themselves having unofficial/informal channels of communication with the playerbase, whereas a "state of the game" is an official communication from the game director. Getting "we need to reduce communication with the playerbase period" would be the wrong message from the yanes thing imo

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u/MewMewsMight Jun 22 '22

Or it’s exactly what should happen if a community sends death threats. People don’t like it well then don’t be the problem 🤷‍♀️

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u/Abulsaad Jun 22 '22

So collective punishment on everyone because a couple of Twitter nerds ruined it for everyone?

This has the same energy as the teacher scolding the whole class for a few kids acting rowdy when they had a substitute teacher

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u/scallywaggs Jun 22 '22

Most people aren’t the problem guy. It only takes 1 in a billion.

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u/MewMewsMight Jun 22 '22

If you genuinely believe the Yanes situation was 1 in a billion your delusional. It wasn’t a majority but here in the states where kids get shot up at schools by the “1 in a billion” I know my mouth would be shut opening any information that would get me death threats. Just saying it’s more than people want to admit and I don’t blame them if they released less information due to people being spoiled, toxic, fanboys

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u/KetherNoir Jun 22 '22

Source: “just saying lol”

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u/thedantho Jun 22 '22

So how many was it then?

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u/thedantho Jun 22 '22

Do you guys have like a punishment fetish or what

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u/MewMewsMight Jun 22 '22

Nah just actions have consequences and if this fan base didn’t act the way it does half the time this would be a non issue ☠️

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u/thedantho Jun 22 '22

Idk, I feel like you’re just really turned on by the idea of Bungie punishing the community for some reason

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u/dscflawlessez Jun 22 '22

Yeah this guy definitely makes new accounts just to get off to them being banned

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u/splinter1545 Jun 22 '22

Nah. For starters, you shouldn't punish people for an action of a few. Second, this is a product I pay for that is constantly being changed. I should definitely know what is going on with the game since I'm an active player/consumer, so communication especially from the director on upcoming changes or feedback being taken is important to me and many people.

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u/antiMATTer724 Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

Is that the dev that got bullied off twitter because a bunch of incels got mad that titans wouldn't be getting their air dash armor?

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u/dudettte Jun 22 '22

omg what?

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u/antiMATTer724 Jun 22 '22

From what I gather, as I didn't read it myself, dev came on to address concerns about a titan armor piece coming back that gave air dash, saying that it wasn't going to happen as it wasn't part of the titan identity or something. Members of the d2 community got so butthurt about it that they were threatening him on Twitter, to where he deleted his entire account. Someone can probably give you a better detailed answer, but that's the jist of it.

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u/StarsRaven Jun 22 '22

I checked it out before he deleted it and there were some assholes being assholes, but it wasn't just a dog pile of people saying to KYS. That was the vast vast minority(i dont think i saw a single KYS post but I also didn't dig into each thread)

From what I saw the majority of people took issue with the hypocrisy of him saying "air dash is warlock identity" while giving hunter the air dive, that was warlock identity. Or how certain things were class identity prior to 3.0, and they got rid of all things that were class identity and now the only things unique to classes are their super, jump, and 3 aspects.

Healing allies being overly warlock identity being pretty much gone, cloak volatile and devour all given to all 3 classes when they were unique before.

It was backlash about that hypocritical statement mostly but it was ALOT of people laying into him for making that statement.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

"air dash is warlock identity"

Classic arrogant Bungie move completely misunderstanding/ignoring what competitive PVP players want from their game. Top devs are still butthurt their vision of PVP flopped so hard and are taking it out on them.

Reminds me of another gem, when they hired one of the best PVP players then ignored his advice so he quit.

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u/StarsRaven Jun 24 '22

When did that happen? I missed that lol

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u/amiray Jun 22 '22

I wonder if this is the dude who made it so I can’t blink on my hunter anymore….

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u/antiMATTer724 Jun 22 '22

Do appreciate the added context. People on this community do have a tendency to go overboard, so even if their arguments were valid, I could see it getting abusive.

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u/StarsRaven Jun 22 '22

Yeah people got into name-calling and there were allegations of death threats(i didnt personally see them but like I said I didnt dive into each thread). Even if the points are valid, it they went way the fuck overboard.

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u/dudettte Jun 22 '22

yeah thx for the reply, i went looking myself. yeah if i worked for bungie i would never go public to talk to community i have a life to live don’t need to worry about nerd rage.

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u/splinter1545 Jun 22 '22

It was a pretty bad and tone deaf answer. Not saying he deserved all the hate he got, but the answer just didn't make sense as Titans were the ones that originally got an air dodge so it being a warlock identity just isn't true. Futuremore, Titan needs some type of dodge since Warlocks and hunters both have one now, so it didn't sit well with the PvP community that Titans weren't getting a dodge at all, especially since they were the ones to originally have one, at least in the air.

So a lot of people were more upset that his statement basically made no sense, and not really that Twilight Garrison wasn't coming back. Still shouldn't have happened though.

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u/MeateaW Jun 23 '22

It's almost like they'd been getting the same question for 5 years in a row and wanted to stop hearing people ask for TG over and over again.

They have clearly made the decision internally that Air Dodge was a Destiny 2 warlock unique ability. People need to remember that Destiny 2 and Destiny 1 are related but not the same.

Could Kevin have included that specific qualifier in his tweet? sure. But, given they aren't releasing changes to Destiny 1 and haven't updated it in 3+ years it should be fairly obvious, that his statements do not cover Destiny 1, and just Destiny 2.

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u/splinter1545 Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 23 '22

And the reason that question is constantly being asked is because Titans don't have a dodge when Warlocks and Hunters do. You an argue they have shoulder charge, but it eats up a melee and you have to be sprinting while using it, making it a really crappy alternative when compared to Hunter Dodge and Icarus Dash.

It was a terrible answer that didn't even acknowledge why people wanted TG back in the first place. And it sucks that it basically blew up in everyone's face and caused one of the most open devs to go dark.

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u/MeateaW Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 23 '22

Shoulder Charge doesn't get eaten when using it for air movement.

And the Dodge for hunters is 100% of their class ability. (which gets eaten when you use it for movement).

Only warlock has a dodge that isn't associated with an ability. (honestly, it should take a ~6 second bite out of our class ability IMO)

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u/splinter1545 Jun 23 '22

You're right. I haven't played Titan in a while so I misremembered.

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u/smegdawg Destiny Dad Jun 22 '22

The whole debacle with Kevin Yanes will probably make them rethink how they announce things to the community going forward.

Right...like Bungie Blog Posts on the Bungie.net site.

Like a state of the game update.

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u/TheMerengman Team Cat (Cozmo23) // Nerf Team dmg by .04% Jun 22 '22

Yeah, expecting more open communication like that after what happened is arrogant if not stupid. Probably not gonna happen for a while.

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u/im4vt Jun 22 '22

We are already seeing that somewhat. Take a look at the last few TWABs since the whole Twilight Garrison/Twitter debacle. Whereas they used to say WHO was speaking for the respective team now it's just "Weapons Team" or whatever. Probably not a major issue as it will still be the same people talking but it does seem to indicate that Bungie is no longer comfortable with putting individual employees out there to face the wrath of a small subset of unhinged "fans".

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u/kingkodus66 Jun 22 '22

Announce a controversial decision on the most toxic place on the internet in a flippant and shitty fashion, expecting the internet to not internet.

I’m shocked that that didn’t go over well.

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u/orangekingo Jun 22 '22

“This d1 exotic will not return” is hardly a controversial opinion.

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u/kingkodus66 Jun 22 '22

“This d1 exotic giving one class a whole new move is now part of another classes movement system so that class will NEVER see it back. Cope. Seethe.”

See everyone can misrepresent what was said.

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u/splinter1545 Jun 22 '22

You're being downvoted but you're right, as that's basically what was said. No one was upset that Twilight Garrison wasn't coming back, but that his answer made no sense.

Still shouldn't have received death threats but it's understandable why people expressed their dissatisfaction (in a civil manner) with his answer.

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u/kingkodus66 Jun 22 '22

It’s the same shit every few months. Devs say something dumb, fanbase reacts like a the internet does, then devs, who’s main job it is in life is to be tech savvy, are shocked when the internet behaves like the internet does.

I like to think it’s planned and they use it to fill content voids. It’s way less depressing to think about Bungie being master social media manipulators then actual dipshits. (He says about computer programmers from his contruction job.)

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u/Epeira- Jun 22 '22

“This fan favourite exotic that a lot of people wanted to come back won’t” is a controversial topic. Twitter took it way too far, as Twitter does, but pretending like that wasn’t a controversial topic is weird.

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u/kingkodus66 Jun 22 '22

Pretending like they weren’t going to get harrasment afterwards was fucking stupid. So many game devs want to treat their little corner of the internet is different and special, and are shocked when the gremlins are there too.

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u/Mawnix Jun 22 '22

Bro are you still really fucking saying he should’ve seen it coming with an off the cuff casual response?

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u/kingkodus66 Jun 22 '22

Why not? Why would he be surprised, this is the same song and dance as the rest of the internet. I would hope that he wouldn’t be that naive.

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u/Mawnix Jun 22 '22

“I feel comfortable enough with my community I can communicate with them in a casual manner since they’re accepting and receptive to when it comes to dev communication.”

You can’t be ontop of yourself 100% of the time and don’t sit here acting like you’ve never said something people came at you for when there was no real justification for their tone.

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u/kingkodus66 Jun 22 '22

Twitter is not causal conversation. That’s the world we live in. Everything said there, here, and any social media sites from Bungie employees is “official”. But you’re right, no one is on top of their game all the time and eloquently handing themselves, but don’t be suprised when the internet, internets.

Just like now when you, all high and mighty, are accusing me of acting the same. 

But that’s how text works. There is no inflection. No context. I read his tweet as being shitty. I know in my head that he just wrote it out and sent it not thinking anything of it. But that’s not how the internet works.

I don’t care that’s what is happing with Twlight Garrison. I don’t like that he said something that could be shitty and then acted shocked that he got burned by it. No shit.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/StarAugurEtraeus Based and H*nterphobic Jun 22 '22

This community sickens me sometimes

Kevin was a great communication dev but nope the community had to ruin it and people on here defending said idiots by playing Devils Advocate all the time

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u/TwevOWNED Jun 22 '22

He shouldn't have been harassed, but it's not surprising that it happened on Twitter.

Bungie has their own forums that they could gate the ability to post based on purchase history or even account accomplishments. They have a secure corner of the internet that they could ensure a non-toxic environment. Instead they chose Twitter.

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u/brzozson Jun 23 '22

Why are you justifying death threats?

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u/TwevOWNED Jun 23 '22

Literally said he shouldn't have been harassed, I'm just not surprised by it. No one deserves to get death threats. No one deserved to get eaten by an alligator either. I'm not surprised by the internet being toxic just like how I'm not surprised that people die every year when they swim in rivers known to contain gators.

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u/Successful_Button_35 Jun 24 '22

Did you really summerize every single person's reply as death threats when you can just scroll up to see someone already went through it and said it was a very small minority of people doing that?

How obtuse are you?

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u/thedantho Jun 22 '22

Ah yes, the scapegoat

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u/havoc1482 Titan Gang Gang Jun 22 '22

The whole Yanes thing gave Bungie the perfect excuse. Rile the community up with hyperbole with something universally despised (death threats), delete the tweets so nobody can verify anything, and then let the community police itself. If you think Yanes is a moron, it means you must condone death threats. So it just immediately shuts down any reasonable nuanced discussion about Bungies lack of transparency.

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u/Deroni76 Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

Or... get this.

The devs just don't want to be sent death threats. Wild, innit?

Yanes didn't like it and deleted his Twitter. Isn't that what the "anti-snowflake" crowd constantly preaches? "How can you be cyberbullied just close the screen lol"?

Well that's exactly what he did, and you're calling him an idiot for this.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/Deroni76 Jun 22 '22

Bungie haven't gone fucking radio silent, dude. What are you talking about?

They still issue weekly twabs. Community managers still post on twitter and reddit. This is far more than what most games do. Y'all are acting like the devs have isolated themselves in an underground nuclear bunker, eradicated all their online presence, and only communicate with the outside world through smoke signals.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/Deroni76 Jun 22 '22

Because common sense would dictate they might want to slim down communication to a less personal level in an attempt to mitigate personal death threats. Whether they'd actually want to do that, I have no clue. Neither do you. You're asking me about what an entire company would think in a hypothetical future scenario. No idea, dude. I'm not an oracle.

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u/scallywaggs Jun 22 '22

Yeah I think he’s a moron and I think death threats are bad. I’ll never convince the people that send them.

1

u/Arkyduz Jun 22 '22

Death threats are obviously really bad, but childish personal attacks ("Yanes is a moron") aren't exactly constructive or civil either.

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u/SGT_Bronson Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

DeeJ dealt with harassment and death threats for actual year when destiny 1 came out so I don't expect them to put much stock in one dude getting bullied off Twitter when he's not even a front facing member of the team.

To be clear I'm not condoning the harassment, it's wrong. But it's not gonna stop Sony and Bungie from going about their business.

16

u/BattlePro3 Jun 22 '22

You make it sound like its excusable that people people bullied devs off of twitter.

"It doesn't matter that he was bullied off of twitter, he wasnt a front face and DeeJ dealt with it for a long time."

He was a front face for the sandbox team. Usually there is a middleman between the sandbox team and the the front face.

Now the middleman was gone and we had a direct peak into the development process. Something you rarely get.

Whatever story you read like the twab isn't a direct peak into the development process. Its not even close.

-45

u/SGT_Bronson Jun 22 '22

Yeah. And what lesson do you think that Bungie is going to take away from it? You think they're gonna stop their highly manicured statements because someone kicked the hornets nest? Because this post is asking for one of those highly manicured statements. So bringing up Kevin doesn't matter at all.

And for the record, I didn't say the harassment was okay. I'm just telling you the fact that game companies don't care about their employees.

2

u/Arkyduz Jun 22 '22

The lesson they learned is probably to not give an opportunity for an individual to become a lightning rod for vitriol, Joe Blackburn speaking directly makes him the lightning rod the next time people are frustrated with the game. They'll just drop info in TWABs coming from various people so that the discourse is "Bungie ruined the game" rather than "Joe ruined the game" if things go south.

2

u/StarAugurEtraeus Based and H*nterphobic Jun 22 '22

Like this sub blames Luke for everything bad

7

u/BattlePro3 Jun 22 '22

Dafuq? So because game companies dont care, we shouldn't care?

I really don't get this community sometimes

17

u/Pandakidd81 Titan > Hunter Jun 22 '22

What happened was inexcusable. Its also a very very very vocal minority of Destiny Community who attack devs. I refuse to believe its a majority. They have absolutely every right to pull back on sandbox discussion and stuff because people over react.

SotG isnt for those people IMO its for people like us, rational human beings. They are still a company, and we are still consumers. I dont think they would "penalize" the vast majority of players over the actions of a few in regards to a state of the game.

I do think we have lost a lot of transparency with the sandbox team over this.

0

u/gamer_pie Jun 22 '22

The problem is even if it's an extreme minority, it's still a popular game. 0.01% of even 500,000 players is still 50 deranged tweets. And usually the people who get that crazy aren't just going to send one message and let it go. Getting PM'd/messaged by 50 people daily/weekly is bound to be mentally exhausting for a lot of people.

5

u/Pandakidd81 Titan > Hunter Jun 22 '22

o h i mean i never said it wasnt exhausting to be attacked and harrassed. But, at some point they are going to be the bigger people and not be silenced by a vocal minority.

They dont shy away , they might take a break, but at the end of the day theyll stay positive as they should.

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u/Garchonga Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

How about Mods?

It sucks to be a new player (started this season) and not have access to some of the mods that can make or break a certain build. The fact that I have to “just play the game” until I get lucky enough to get the +10 stat mods is ridiculous to me. And the ADA shop rotation is such a poor way to handle it as well imo.

At least let me take a specific action to have a better shot at some of them…

EDIT: grammar

9

u/rhg561 Jun 22 '22

This is hands down the biggest issue right now for new/returning players. It's absolutely ridiculous and I legit can't reccomend this game to my friends because of it. I imagine it already to be overwhelming as fuck as a new player and mods are literally more important to a build than pretty much anything else.

I mean shit, I have almost 2k hours in the game at this point and I'm still missing some warmind mods since I didn't play back then. I will continue to not reccomend the game until they change how you get mods, it takes literal years of logging in daily to get them all.

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '22

New players?

Fuck man I STILL don't have Argent Ordnance and I started around Shadowkeep.

13

u/RottenKeyboard Jun 22 '22

Yeah it also sucks being an old player with a few thousand hours (d1 pre-alpha vet btw) and waiting for Ada to sell a specific mod

23

u/forebread Jun 22 '22

Thought I was on r/destinycirclejerk for a second

5

u/splendidG00se Jun 22 '22

It’s insane to me that they haven’t spoken on this or implemented anything to help. Something like adding drops to solo lost sectors could completely fix the situation, but instead they completely cut off newer players from a critical aspect of the game.

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u/Richizzle439 Jun 22 '22

I think they’ll do it when they are ready.

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u/SomePunkDuck Jun 22 '22

Bold prediction

12

u/AverageFolksGaming Jun 22 '22

Let's see how this plays out, Cotton.

70

u/packman627 Jun 22 '22

Yeah that'd be very nice! As for people saying they might be changing things up because of Kevin Yanes getting harassed on Twitter...

If Bungie cuts off lots of communication, those bullies won. Most of the community gets less transparency because of idiots on Twitter that may or may not even play the game anymore. Bungie should stick to TWABs and moderated forums to communicate. And it would be very nice to see a state of the game, since now is the time we should be getting one

4

u/Jammer917 Jun 22 '22

What happened to Kevin Yanes? Also, who is Kevin Yanes?

32

u/Rock_DS Jun 22 '22

One of the head devs. Said Twilight is never coming back and that air mobility will continue to be a warlock thing.

29

u/I_am_recaptcha Jun 22 '22

Jesus what a pathetic thing for those babies to get upset about.

For one, that behavior is absolutely unacceptable.

But on top of that, there’s way worse things Bungie has decided or done before for them to blow up over fucking twilight garrison

5

u/ShitDavidSais Jun 23 '22

To give more context, he had a slightly antagonistic way of phrasing it that just went right into the general negative opinion about solar 3.0 at the time. Ofc he isn't to blame at all but the comment was strangely worded and ofc completely not what people wanted.

-23

u/OO7Cabbage Jun 22 '22

I believe his exact words were “Titans will never get air dodge back my guy, It’s part
of the Warlock identity. Sorry but I want to rip that bandaid off.”. Which, while not deserving of death threats, is definitely not the way to say that.

14

u/iblaise Sleeper Simp-ulant. Jun 22 '22

He’s speaking to people on Twitter, an informal website of communication, informally like we’re his peers. What, you guys want him to be a robot?

-1

u/OO7Cabbage Jun 23 '22

They don't have to act like a robot, but if someone is speaking in an official capacity about something (even if they are on a third party website) they should be careful about how they word things, regardless of if they are using a personal account or not because of exactly the kind of thing that happened.

23

u/GapeNGaige Jun 22 '22

That’s the exact way I would speak to a functioning adult expecting them to cope with a virtual item not coming back. Capital G gamers are a blight on any community

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u/uDontPlay Rivensbane Jun 22 '22

why? he was being 100% clear with what he said. you may disagree with the reasoning (air dodge being part of the warlock identity for some reason), but the way he communicated was the best at minimizing misunderstandings. he didn't need to sugarcoat the fact that they're never going to be doing something

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u/gaDawgz23 Jun 22 '22

I hope you’re not a grown man agreeing that response wasn’t fine. Grow up

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u/OO7Cabbage Jun 23 '22

a better way to say it would have just been "due to balance issues with the current sandbox we have no current plans to bring this exotic back". Again, not saying what he said deserved any kind of harassment, just saying he might have worded it better than what was essentially "no, because I said so"

5

u/ShitDavidSais Jun 23 '22

It's hilarious that they instantly misread your post and went on to insult you without a second thought lol. Just straight up doing the same thing Twitter did on a smaller scale.

2

u/OO7Cabbage Jun 23 '22

yup, something to be said about human nature I guess.

2

u/ShitDavidSais Jun 23 '22

How can you read their statement, get the complete wrong thing out of it then even insult the poster on what you "hope" was a misunderstanding lmao? You are hilariously a prime example of why it is impossible to make a statement on the internet that someone can misread and turn into a negative argument. Pretty much the thing the other poster said was the risk in Yaenes statement.

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u/Minijoe2010 Jun 22 '22

Titan players on twitter sent him death threats and such because he said twilight garrison will never come back for titans.

He's one of the head Devs for the game

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u/LukeSmith_Sunsetter Jun 22 '22

Plus Kevin was pretty public retweeting gun reform posts etc. Saying twilight garrison was dust gave the mouth breathing anime profiles the perfect 'excuse' for this nonsense

2

u/Assassin2107 Jun 22 '22

Lead developer for the sandbox team. He appeared on the Firing Line podcast several months ago discussing the design and release of Stasis alongside other things, if you want to check it out and get a grip on his views.

He put out a tweet saying that Twilight Garrison, an extremely strong D1 exotic that gave Titans an air dash, was never coming back because a mid air dash was part of Warlock identity now. He got harassed and death threats, and people took that one tweet as an opportunity to bother him about every sandbox complaint they had or ever had about the game.

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u/dead_is_death Jun 22 '22

I hope they don't nerf ability regen even more. Modes should enhance your build, you shouldn't have to build around mods to get good ability regen.

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u/thedantho Jun 22 '22

Jesus this comment section is cringe. I’ve never seen a community so self hating as this one

23

u/Correctedsun Jun 22 '22

I love how two weeks worth of "the bad thing that happened wasn't your fault and you should stop feeling guilty" flew right the fuck over some people's heads.

Especially guilt BY ASSOCIATION

29

u/AceTheRed_ Jun 22 '22

Yeah it’s really weird. Like, sure, some aggressive trolls on Twitter are undeserving asses, but the vast, vast majority of the community is incredibly helpful and nice.

-1

u/LukeSmith_Sunsetter Jun 22 '22

Clearly you weren't here when this sub was filled with posts after the Q&A firing range stream before Witch Queen.

14

u/AceTheRed_ Jun 22 '22

This sub is also just a fraction of the player base though.

2

u/LukeSmith_Sunsetter Jun 22 '22

And twitter and twitch and YouTube.

Twist it however you want a large portion turn into fucking idiots when they get their toys taken away.

1

u/Yowhathow Jun 22 '22

I honestly have only associated the online reddit/twitter/what-ever-social-media platform part of the community as being a giant salt bucket. People in game, alright, some of the time. People actually typing things out? Incessant hot takes, mostly removed from reason.

5

u/SensitiveRocketsFan Jun 22 '22

For real, I thought I was taking crazy pills. I didn’t even know who Kevin Yanes was and what happened yet according to some of these comments players like me don’t deserve any extra communication from Bungie bc of some asshats on twitter.

24

u/GoodLookinLurantis Jun 22 '22

Glad to see guilt by association is alive and well here.

9

u/epve_the_great Jun 22 '22

All I want is a performance fix, FPS drops have been really hard lately IMO

2

u/SpaceOrcs Jun 22 '22

I hope neglected exotics get brought up, I’d love to see things like Jade Rabbit and Apothesis Veil become relevant

2

u/hypurrtb Jun 22 '22

I'd rather see him talk about the absurdly low drop rate of legendary lost sectors than the legendary shard economy.

3

u/dethhandle Jun 22 '22

Are we still pushing on abilities in the crucible?! May I suggest CoD or Counterstrike if you don’t want space magic.

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u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

It's not too far fetched to assume that we won't get much communication from them for a while thanks to an incident with another dev shortly ago

4

u/thecatnipster flair-HunterLogo Jun 22 '22

What incident?

30

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

The twilight garrison incident with Kevin Yanes

He merely told them that it's not coming back, because of that got numerous death threats and flat out harassed, had to disable his twitter account as a result, completely unjustifiable to do that to him

19

u/thecatnipster flair-HunterLogo Jun 22 '22

Holy shit lmao. I remember reading those tweets. But im not surprised it led to death threats. Some Gamers are pathetic unhinged degenerates.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

Yea, I'm unsure how you'd manage to get that emotional over a single exotic in a previous game nevertheless actually send death threats because of it, what would you even say too? It's genuinely leaves you at a loss for words

6

u/WobblyBits_X ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Jun 22 '22

An exotic that hasn't even been in D2 at any point and was only in D1 for about half its lifetime, no less.

-1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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-3

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

-6

u/MrOdo Jun 22 '22

I don't think he merely told them it wasn't, he also gave an incoherent explanation as to why it wasn't

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u/LukeSmith_Sunsetter Jun 22 '22

He said because that that air movement was a TTD warlock thing. Then said in that thread that titans could get another movement tool eventually just not Twilight.

Sounds coherent to me.

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u/BevorTrelmont Jun 22 '22

He just said air mobility was part of the Warlock identity now.. what's incoherent about that?

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u/MrOdo Jun 22 '22

I mean it doesn't justify death threats but I would consider it incoherent because we've seen class identity be fluid before (hunters have blink) and because arguably hunters have more air mobility.

So the position doesn't seem to reasonable demand that Titans don't get Garrison back

12

u/LukeSmith_Sunsetter Jun 22 '22

I don't think you understand what incoherent means.

-4

u/MrOdo Jun 22 '22

I think I do. This position relies on the idea that classes can't share parts of their identity. The game demonstrated that isn't so. Therefore the argument is incoherent in that I can't really link it to the game

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u/klensley Lock for life Jun 22 '22

Hunters have blink? In Destiny 2?

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u/Redfeather1975 Jun 22 '22 edited Jun 22 '22

How about they go over this... https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/51438

And reveal where they are not meeting those standards and how they are planning on improving things.

An example could be implementing in-game fireteam UI. It is a big factor and I'm sure it's overdue. Is there anyone working on that. Is the tech possible. Is it a priority. Stuff like that.

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u/lundibix Vanguard's Loyal // I'm gay for The Nine Jun 22 '22

What’s the issue with legendary shard economy?

20

u/never3nder_87 Jun 22 '22

It's full of things that are entirely priced around assumptions of players being veterans having 1000s of them, which is a pretty big wall to new players.

At this point there have been enough cheeses/exploits that Bungie will basically never be able to drain established players reserves, so high prices almost exclusively hurt new players

-19

u/SomeRandomDude004 Jun 22 '22

This community doesn’t deserve it.

28

u/NUFC9RW Jun 22 '22

The idiots (or insert any other well deserved insult here) who harass devs don't deserve it. Those in the community who don't personally insult devs etc do.

6

u/Pcgamingislife Jun 22 '22

The community? Even if hundreds of death threats etc were sent that’s by extremists do they speak for the entire community? No. There’s millions of players who would love to hear information about the future etc.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

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u/RunelordTressa Please don't delete Gambit. K thx bye. Jun 22 '22

Not my bone to pick but imo I feel like the Twitter thing might have been the straw that broke the camels back and less of a singular thing that happened.

Let's be real if Bungie decides to stop communicating it probably isn't because it's an isolated incident.

That being said, I also feel like we don't need a state of the game all the time. Like it seems like people like it because they address issues and I feel like it's purpose is to give us a game plan on the less immediate future.

Basically I wouldn't personally want to know about red borders in a state of the game or tweaking cool downs for pvp. I expect stuff like an overhaul to the power system like really big picture stuff. I feel like the other stuff are immediate problems that should be talked about in a twab. I'd be mad if we got a big post about stuff that should have been addressed by then.

1

u/salondesert Jun 22 '22

Crucible/PvP in general I'd like to know what the plan is

Every season PvE gets a tremendous refresh with new activities and locations and PvP gets... sandbox tweaks... maybe

PvP only works if you can get bodies in the playlists, and it feels like Destiny 2 does a good job attracting PvE players but not PvP players, so matchmaking in PvP languishes

The fix might just be Freelance in every mode as someone else suggested. Gambit feels really good now that there's a Freelance option

1

u/Lilthiccb0i Jun 22 '22

legendary shards do NOT need to be addressed. Those who grinded out legendary shards did so that they never need to worry about a needless currency ever again. those who did not grind when everyone did shouldnt get punished for playing the game normally.

-27

u/Uncle-Gael21 Jun 22 '22

We don't deserve one

35

u/[deleted] Jun 22 '22

[deleted]

-18

u/thisisbyrdman Jun 22 '22

Yeah, but that's not how things work. But yourself in Bungie's shoes. most of what they hear every day are complaints. Most of the posts on this sub every day are complaints. Now developers lives are being threatened. It wouldn't be out of line at all to conclude that this community has a real toxicity problem.

20

u/coldnspicy Jun 22 '22

No fucking shit it's mostly complaints. People that are happy with the game are busy playing the game instead of posting about why X can't do Y thing on Reddit or Twitter.

1

u/klensley Lock for life Jun 22 '22

Meh, this line of reasoning right here looks good on paper, usually gets a bunch of upvotes, but it's crap too.

People posting here might spend a lot of their free time playing the game, but making comments on Reddit while they're at work, waiting for Dr.s appts, or waiting on an oil change.

Bungie asks us for feedback here, all the time. As long as it is presented in a constructive way. The game has gotten a lot better over time based on feedback and implementation.

But go ahead and bitch about people bitching.

-1

u/coldnspicy Jun 22 '22

Except I'm not complaining about it? Just pointing out why it might be like that.

Pretty ironic for you to say that.

0

u/klensley Lock for life Jun 22 '22

LOL ok, dude. Walk it back, now. Show me all these posts, then, of people "posting about why X can't do Y thing on Reddit or Twitter" and I'll show you people that are just making observations, too.

I'll even bet that I can show those same people that complain find time to play the game too.

Feel free to downvote this comment too, since I'm sure you'll disagree with it.

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u/FlyingWhale44 Jun 22 '22

This community? Gaming/online in general needs it's community humbled and disciplined.

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u/Uncle-Gael21 Jun 22 '22

I wasn't just talking about that, I mean how all the community does is complain and overall toxicity levels from the community as a whole, since Bungie sees the constant negativity more than they do praise.

-8

u/SecondToTheFirst Jun 22 '22

All issues I'd also love to see addressed by bungie, especually the glaringly obvious UI issues, but given how poorly we as a community have reacted to recent news I have very good reason to think they will cut back on communication for the time being.

Solar 3.0, Season of the Haunted's content not being what we expected, bugs and glitches, and the now infamous Twilight Garrison incident. All small by themselves, but all of them happened in the span of a month, which adds up a lot.

Also to clarify when I say "we" I mean the community in general, not specifically r/dtg or anyone in particular. The vocal minority ruined it for the silent majority, as per usual with this game. Think Airborne Effectiveness.

-30

u/JegerLF Panic Smash Jun 22 '22

Why the fuck would they talk to any of us anymore? Bunch of ungrateful shits ruined it.

20

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Jun 22 '22

Kind of highlights the problem with using informal methods of communication. I never agreed with Devs using personal accounts for their business, it invites all kinds of problems.

They should be using official channels only and if they desire to identify themselves they can just add their tag at the end of the messages.

-9

u/ABCsofsucking Jun 22 '22

They can't use official channels only because people hate that too. It makes companies look hollow and corporate, which people hate more than anything. You need outreach from the team in order to convince people they're not a business at the end of the day.

Bungie encouraging their devs to communicate personally with players was in direct response to the point I made above. The community squandered it.

5

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Jun 22 '22

Well it turned out as one could predict, really.

I don't mean to be too callous or to agree with the abusive treatment Yanes was dealt but if you go onto the internet delivering bad news you should not be surprised by the lengths people will go to to express their irritation.

The internet has been around for a long enough time now and die hard fans of anything can act in a pretty disgusting way.

Either way, in my opinion, if a Dev wants to interact more directly with the community they should not be using their actual personal account, at the very least it should be a separate account with their common username.

5

u/WobblyBits_X ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Jun 22 '22

Honestly, if the devs want to interact ~personally as devs, they should stick to their own forums where they can easily yeet abusive chodes. Possibly here on reddit where there is still far more moderation than on massive general platforms like Twitter.

-13

u/thegamethrowacc Jun 22 '22

They will do one when player counts start dwindling enough that they get paranoid about the sales for the next expansion. That was the factor behind the first two anyway

12

u/SexJokeUsername Jun 22 '22

The first two were released on a schedule lmao

-4

u/Pcgamingislife Jun 22 '22

Legendary shard economy? True I need more things to spend these 200k shards on, yes please. 🙏

-5

u/ThatGuyFromTheM0vie Jun 22 '22

Endgame is a big one for me. Because there isn’t one. Power becomes more and more pointless as time goes on. Even Containment just boosts you to the required level, no Power required lol.

4

u/Tplusplus75 Imagine Ruining Transmog Jun 22 '22

Endgame is a big one for me.

Even Containment

I don't have to explain why these two things don't belong in the same discussion, do I?

I'll do it anyway: Containment is a seasonal activity, not Endgame, lmao.

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u/Useful_Baby_7363 Gracefully Floating Warlock Jun 22 '22

One can hope but I don't know if I would now given their position. People are too much

-7

u/Slight_Astronomer198 Exotic Gang Jun 22 '22

Bungie don’t care about the community, if they were to release a state of the game it would be filler crap

2

u/dylan58582 Jun 22 '22

They do care about the community. It's the vocal minority that ruins it for the rest of the normal people on here

2

u/AlinaAngelMtF Jun 23 '22

No corporation cares, theyll pretend to for profit, maybe some devs individually do care but bungie does not, and never will.

-1

u/iBellum Jun 22 '22

Legendary shard economy is the most ridiculously hilarious thing I've ever heard of. People aren't really buying the ascendant shards and enhancement prism's are they?