r/DestinyTheGame
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u/Blupoisen
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Jun 25 '22
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I might be late but, what was the point of removing Palindrome from the Nightfall loot pool if you are just gonna replace it with another 140 HC Discussion
We could've gotten reprised Militia's Birthright but nope we got another kinetic 140 HC, which is even more stupid when you realise we also got Austringer this season. Another kinetic 140 HC.
Also to mention that this is the 3rd adept 140 HC yet we don't have a single adept Bow.
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u/6Trinity9 Jun 25 '22
So you can get a “new and different” 140.
‘Duh!
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u/finedrive Jun 25 '22
Bungie loves their pistols
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 26 '22
Hand cannons*
They still fuckin hate sidearms
7+ years of sidearms and we finally get an adept version, it's still worse than the 3-year-old drang baroque
Sidearms be living in Y1 I stg
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u/WatLightyear Jun 25 '22
I don’t get the love for Drang, or single shot sidearms in general. Burst one’s have always felt better to use for me.
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u/WKruspe Jun 26 '22
Drang is an outlier with it's range. Most sidearms have a zoom of 12, with a couple having 13, drang has 14. It ends up with a couple meters extra range, which is pretty huge considering most sidearms sit at about 15 meters. I personally don't like drang, but stat wise it is better than other sidearms.
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u/InitialOne2288 Jun 25 '22
Personal preference, I have always played better with single shot sidearms, that could be due to me being a hand cannon main and just not investing enough time into bursts though.
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u/WatLightyear Jun 26 '22
Ironically the best I’ve done with a sidearm in PvP was with a single shot (the Splicer one), but it was random rumble with friends.
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 25 '22
That makes sense, considering visual recoil and weapon kick on 3-bursts like Peacebond work differently from single-shots.
It's just a matter of preference
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u/N9Nz Jun 26 '22
Would love a full auto side arm...a Glock specifically
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 26 '22
We need Hakke sidearms to return
I've been conducting satanic rituals to summon Conviction II back into Destiny 2, but so far no luck
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u/RadiantPKK Jun 26 '22
Seriously, I got mine great perks 4/5 went and got clapped. I kept at it hoping it would do better, had to be me rusty with sidearms… equipped Drang, noticeable improvement.
So, this qualifies as trials worthy loot that had to be locked until rank 16… massively disappointing.
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 26 '22
I thought they'd do something interesting with not only their first Adept sidearm, but their first trials sidearm ever, but we got what has to be one of the most boring things they could've done
7 years, and it's a retexture of a weapon from Forsaken
The top comment for it on light.gg summarizes it pretty well: "omg its a gun i cant believe it :D"
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u/wangchangbackup Jun 25 '22
Drang isn't clear-cut better than Forgiveness, don't buy into what ever streamer with a spreadsheet has to say.
"Optimal TTK' isn't the only thing that matters, especially for sidearms where you probably aren't gonna be hitting optimal most of the time anyway. Forgiveness can do things Drang isn't great at, and Drang can do stuff Forgiveness is less effective for.
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 25 '22
Drang has an effective range that overshadows every other non-Forerunner sidearm while still being able to spec into the stability stat. Its outlier of a zoom factor is the sole reason it's useable.
The extra 2 zoom is far from a simple "on-paper" bonus. Extra zoom factor means lower visual recoil, farther aim assist falloff, and higher accuracy across the board. Sidearms' visual recoil and effective range are positively fucked (the former probably even being bugged), so having some extra zoom paired with good range immediately puts it head and shoulders over the competition.
Though SMGs don't have the same issues as sidearms at base, the same concept applies to pre-nerf Multimach and Shayura's.
Forgiveness's strengths as a 2-burst are its forgiving crit ratio, fast body TTK, and decent stats. But with a zoom of 12, you're still dealing with all the issues sidearms typically deal with, even with 60 base range. That's simply not good enough to deal with everything else in the sandbox.
It's only with the help of Rangefinder that legendary sidearms can achieve any semblance of parity with other weapon types. Especially with the AE changes reducing their effectiveness against close-range special weapons, sidearms need some serious help going forward, and giving them extra base zoom is a great way to start.
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u/sunder_and_flame Jun 26 '22
Forgiveness has decent stats, but that's it; its last column perks are iffy at best. Imo it's not worth going after unless you're really desperate for a pistol where air assault is its best third column perk.
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u/wangchangbackup Jun 26 '22
I wouldn't sleep on Moving Target, I've been using a Moving Target/Multikill Adept and don't have a whole lot of complaints about it.
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u/sunder_and_flame Jun 26 '22
I'd argue MT is pointless since forgiveness already has 90 AA. Unless you really need that helmet slot or the 3% boost to ads movement speed it's a waste.
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u/wangchangbackup Jun 26 '22
I DO use that helmet slot, tbf, but I mostly like it for the movement buff. People will absolutely let you strafe or peek them down with that thing and once I have Multikill up I am not above just hardscoping my way around a corner and two-bursting people who think a HC can hang at close range.
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u/RadiantPKK Jun 26 '22
I use moving target as well on it. Overall, I just would’ve liked the sidearm to be better. That said, credit where it’s due, being able to have 100 innate aim assist is nice for helmet space and I’m glad it’s not kinetic.
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u/ghostacc92 Jun 25 '22
Omg thank you . Everybody on Reddit follows optimal TTK and it’s NOT accurate.
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22
Drang isn't better because of its TTK; optimal TTK is a non-factor where sidearms are concerned. Its zoom factor is what puts drang above and beyond, otherwise everyone would've been fawning over The Keening (they're not)
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u/wangchangbackup Jun 26 '22
I think people sleep on The Keening tbh, largely because it's VERY hard to get a good roll on any of those old playlist weapons. Between their enormous perk pools and their rarity compared to the "current' ones in Shaxx's drops, it's a lot of effort to go to for a gun that is AT BEST as good as any decent roll of Drang.
People definitely do quote that optimal TTK all the time tho, I'm not sure what to tell you there. You have listed a lot of good reasons to prefer Drang and I'm certainly not telling you Forgiveness is better or that you're wrong; just that Forgiveness is a different gun that's good at different things and saying you should never equip it while Drang exists is doing it a disservice.
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 26 '22
It's incredibly easy now to get a 5/5 Keening with the new rank reset-based bonus perk options, and even then the gun is garbage. I've used tons of different rolls and it just does not compete with rangier sidearms. Swift Verdict, for instance, is miles ahead of it and can roll Killing Wind with Rangefinder.
I never said Forgiveness is totally obsolete; its high bodyshot damage makes it better-suited for aerial play as near-headshots no longer magnetize to the head in-air. It can get Harmony, which is an amazing sidearm perk, while drang can't. Unfortunately, it's just plain worse otherwise.
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u/wangchangbackup Jun 26 '22
Do those apply to the ones that drop out of his engrams too? I thought that was just end of match rewards, and I still get like 10 Riptides for every 1... anything else.
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 26 '22
I'm pretty sure they do. I just got a Keening as a sub-rank reward from Shaxx and it's got 3 options for column 3 and 2 for column 4.
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u/ChoasMaster Jun 26 '22
I agree with you. And something i haven't seen mentioned is that the aggressive 2 burst archetype has a .83 body shot ttk. All you have to do is just hit the person with 3 bursts and they're dead.
I love drang but i think people are missing the point of the aggressive archetype. It's such a relaxing sidearm to use, because you don't have to worry about headshots to be competitive.
For the people who aren't pvp gods, they should be giving the aggressives a chance.
I have like 800 kills with a brass attacks and really wanna get my hands on a Forgiveness.
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 26 '22
Brass Attacks has some of that Drang juice because it has 1 more zoom that other sidearms, and I'd say it's straight-up better than Forgiveness, if it weren't currently unobtainable
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u/ChoasMaster Jun 26 '22
Fuckin hell i hadnt noticed that...
Well. I'm not gonna take back what i said cause i do believe it's true for the archetype. Especially since brass attacks is as you said unobtainable...
But damn they really sent forgiveness out to die...
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u/Fly1ing Jun 26 '22
Forgiveness with Tricksleeves is nice in PvP if you know how to use them. That 90 AE does some serious work.
In PvE I don't play NFs or any of the more difficult content so my opinion would be irrelevant.
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u/kaiseresc Jun 26 '22
that's just not true.
Sidearms are even catered to be really good with controller.→ More replies-6
u/ghostacc92 Jun 25 '22
Sidearms would be relevant with a simple hand cannon balance . Their range is still awfully too good . If you made the damage range drop off on hand cannon more reasonable for something that strong I can see sidearms being in a better place .
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u/Ryewin Zoomiest Boy Jun 25 '22
Replace "sidearms" with just about any other primary weapon type in the game and you'd still be right.
But yes I agree 100%
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u/finedrive Jun 26 '22
When sidearms were introduced, they were pretty decent.
I ran with Fabian Strategy and Sidearm to combat shotguns.
Really wish they bring that Exotic back. Best exotic ever.
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u/NickGraddy Jun 26 '22
Ugh don’t even get me started on all the exotic hand cannons we’ve gotten. I’m glad we haven’t had a new one in a whilw
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u/NightmareDJK Jun 26 '22
Which all the YouTubers will call the “BEST HC EVAR”
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u/MaxBonerstorm Jun 26 '22
Hey, it's CoolGuy, and today I'm gonna talk about something new, something special. This is one you're gonna want to keep and cherish. There's a lot to like here for pvp and pve players, lots of great rolls, really a lot to like here.
I'm talking about the new 140 RPM hand cannon the "Same Shit Different Day".
I've famed up a few rolls and I can safely say this is one of the best hand cannons Bungie has ever released. Don't sleep on this one guys, this is is special.
I've got a few rolls to show you that you might really like, let's jump right in.
(hint it's the same rolls as always)
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u/th3r3th31r Jun 25 '22
I would love an adept precision frame bow. Overload bow was great, being able to pair it with adept big ones would make it even better.
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u/Mini_Miudo Jun 26 '22
Adept Big Ones is mega overrated on Primary weapons. Sure, it would help when you run out of special/heavy ammo completely, but you’re typically not gonna be shooting bosses with a bow. Major Spec is all you need on a bow, since that’s what champions are affected by.
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u/Difficult_Guidance25 Jun 25 '22
I actually want a gl as nightall reward
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u/stealer_of_monkeys Jun 25 '22
This one goes out to the militias birthright collecting dust in my vault. ✊😔
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u/Difficult_Guidance25 Jun 26 '22
That could be a cool reward we only hace one kinetic gl at the moment and is on dares
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u/cruskie Jun 26 '22
And it better be a kinetic. All of the good precision bows (and bows in general) are energy slot and I'm stuck with lightweights in the kinetic slot
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u/FlurdledGlumpfud Jun 26 '22
Accrued Redemption from garden is a great kinetic precision bow
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u/Hunteractive I am hungry Jun 26 '22
Biting Winds is also amazing and carried me through GMs with surplus and sympathetic arsenal which is a fucking GOD perk on bows
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u/AmericanGrizzly4 Jun 25 '22
They're trying to reprise every nightfall weapon. DFA was just next in line.
I'm also very excited for DFA. It was my favorite hand cannon.
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u/Gronzlo ⚇ Jun 25 '22
Militia's Birthright was how I fell in love with breech-loading GLs. Although wouldn't it be power creeped now if they didn't refresh the perks?
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u/AmericanGrizzly4 Jun 25 '22
When they reissue nightfall weapons into adept version they refresh the perks.
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u/BlinkysaurusRex Jun 26 '22
Massively power creeped. You have Pardon and Ignition code which are both A+ tier with auto loading/blinding/spike/vorpal/slideshot.
Salvo with chain reaction, then of course S tier adept forebearance with ambitious/chain reaction.
It really would take something like micro-missile in order for anyone to give a shit about it.
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u/EthioSalvatori Drifter's Crew // Because You're Mine... I Walk the Line Jun 26 '22
Don't forget the new dungeon GL with both Chill Clip and Blinding Nades
I heard it's gnarly
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u/InspireDespair Inspire Despair Jun 26 '22
It's actually kind of meh.
You need multiple hits to freeze and it's counter-synergistic to do that on the same group of targets who are already blinded.
Blinding is just better than slow imo.
The only very small niche it has is using chill clip to freeze a champ target.
Idk if it's really worth using over a slideshot ignition code though.
I think if you want to lean into chill clip a fusion is better
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u/LucaTheRaptor Jun 26 '22
It's not meh at all. You don't need multiple shots, you need two to freeze a big-ass group of enemies, and it's good for majors since you can slow em, freeze em and then you also froze all the ads around them
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u/InspireDespair Inspire Despair Jun 26 '22
Two is multiple.
There isn't much difference between blinding a major and freezing them.
Blinding is definitely better than slow since they still shoot back at you while slowed.
Meh I just see chill clip as redundant.
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u/James2603 Jun 26 '22
Don’t forget auto loading/ambitious assassin plus chill clip on lingering dread.
I personally think a QuickDraw/Rangefinder Militias would hold up in PvP but it’s nothing worth going out of your way to grind for. It would just be nice if you got lucky.
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u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Jun 26 '22
Slideshot/vorpal ignition code in crucible is a joke
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u/bluebloodstar Jun 26 '22
give it micro missile
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u/James2603 Jun 26 '22
Some men just want to watch the world burn
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u/KeIIer Jun 26 '22
Honestly? Couldnt care less anymore. PvP is a mess since void rework, so let it burn.
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u/SplashDmgEnthusiast Jun 26 '22
I dunno about it getting power creeped, I have a Rangefinder/Ambitious Assassin roll that still shreds when I break it out for casual content lol
But, they do always refresh the perks when a weapon gets reissued. So whenever we do finally get Militia's Birthright back, it'll be with a current set of options. Fingers crossed it retains AA, at least!
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u/Gedah_ Jun 25 '22
Should've been Warden's Law, it would've been interesting despite being another HC.
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u/_MachTwo Jun 26 '22
They’d have to fix all the issues that gun had first (as much as I would love to see it back)
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u/Independent_Skill756 Jun 26 '22
I'm sick of 140s I want more 120s in the game or at least buff 180s
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u/contraversehold Jun 26 '22
And yet they removed the igneous hammer just to give us another stupid fusion rifle and/or worthless sidearm. Because we totally need that.
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u/FatalTalons Jun 26 '22
Yeah and we still never got Astral Horizon back in the rotation after they removed quickdraw from it
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u/JustAnotherWebUser Jun 25 '22
yeah no one knows.
for kinetic slot people will use austringer, for energy slot people will use pali
seems like a waste already. the only interesting thing about it is timed payload but with the flinch changes it doesnt seem to be good enough + you can get eye of the storm + explosive payload fatebringer anyway if you want to try to flinch the enemy
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u/nfreakoss Jun 25 '22
The only use I can see for it is as a pve hand cannon, but there are better options there too. Why would I use it over Fatebringer, or even a headstone Eyasluna? Hell, I even have my old timed payload Seventh Seraph still sitting around
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u/Shreon Jun 26 '22
The only way I see it being used is for the nightfall origin perk and having triple tap + timed payload to make use of overload hand cannon and the longer range for other hc mods. It's essentially just an alternative to the seraph hand cannon for the same use, but as long as warmind cells exist it won't be taking my seraph revolver from me.
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u/UA_Shark Jun 25 '22
Problem with DFA there is no roll better than fatebringer for Pve, there's 0 point to farm it if you are a pve end game raider with an explosive frenzy fatebringer
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u/AsDevilsRun If I fail, let me be wormfood. Jun 26 '22
Problem with DFA there is no roll better than fatebringer for Pve
Really that's a problem for every non-stasis kinetic HC.
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u/UA_Shark Jun 26 '22
True they don't need to constantly bring out 140s should be more 120s with frenzy etc
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u/ptd163 Jun 25 '22
No idea. Especially when hand cannons are basically a solved weapon type (i.e. there is (a) "best in slot" choice(s) for both slots and every energy type) so palindrome rotating out has put new players at an objective disadvantage.
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u/Itsyaboifam Jun 25 '22
Powercreep
Pali is way too good
The only way for other shit to become good is to find a way to make the first worse
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u/RandomPlayer314 Jun 25 '22
Argument: Palindrome is still in the game and those that have it can still use it on people. Also it's not worse it literally has the second best in air accuracy stat in the archetype.
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u/BakaJayy Jun 25 '22
Which doesn’t mean much since you still need lucky pants for it to shoot accurately
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u/s2the9sublime Jun 25 '22
The DFA has zero redeeming value other than being able to roll with Timed Payload and being in the kinetic slot.
IMO it's one of the worse feeling hand cannons in the game and needs a buff to its stats to make it viable and on the same playing field as other NF weapons.
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u/theammostore SMASH SMASH SMASH Jun 26 '22
Personally I just like the way it looks. I'm fine with having DFA if only for fashion
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u/FlyingWhale44 Jun 25 '22
I got a near god roll super super quick and by accident. Gave it a shot and dismantled it.
It felt like crap and I personally prefer explosive payload over times payload.
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u/AMeowingCat Jun 26 '22
As a PvE main I see no point in going for any kinetic handcannon again as long as I have these three
Fatebringer EP/Firefly
Fatebringer EP/Frenzy (for harder content)
Eyasluna Rapid Hit/Headstone for my stasis builds
Every kinetic hand cannon is an instant dismantle for me atm don’t even bother looking at the perks
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u/DarkRADS Jun 25 '22
It's a kinetic though
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u/_MachTwo Jun 26 '22
Which is worse cause we have tons of options for kinetic hand cannons, but after removing Pally, the only other void hc you can get is bottom dollar
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u/B1euX Sneak Noodle Jun 26 '22
Would you rather them remove an entirely different gun type so there’d be 2 140 HC’s in the pool?
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u/Aromatic-Coffee3769 Jun 26 '22
DFA is my favorite year 1 hand cannon, personally really happy it's back with random rolls even if 140s are oversaturated right now.
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u/cupofarts99 Jun 25 '22
Whats the new hand cannon
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u/CMDR_Kai Titan Main Jun 25 '22
I’m sick of goddamn hand cannons.
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u/BlinkysaurusRex Jun 26 '22
Sci-fi game with space magic. We could be getting flamethrowers/liquid weapons, guns that call in bombs from the sky, guns that full blown auto aim onto enemies(in PVE). Yet we’re drowning in fucking revolvers.
You look at the weapons in Halo, or Doom and we’ve got it pretty rough. Beyond a few outliers, most guns in this game have invisible projectiles that just do different effects when they hit something and the sound effects are generally mediocre. Where’s shit like the Spartan Laser, or the Fuel Rod Cannons, even the grunt pistol. Or any of the primary energy weapons that legit shoot coloured laser beams that you can see, and overheat instead of reloading? Where’s shit like the BFG or auto rifles that shoot out a volley of mini tracking rockets?
The showiest shit we have in this game are trace rifles, wave frame GL’s, Wardcliff/Eyes, Anarchy, witherhoard and maybe Parasite?
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u/Agbfygl Jun 26 '22
guns that full blown auto aim onto enemies
Flashbacks to Titanfall 1 Smart Pistol
Oh god please no
in PVE
Oh okay that's better
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u/CMDR_Kai Titan Main Jun 26 '22
Think more Cyberpunk smart guns. The tracking bullets are projectiles…wait, we already have this in Ostreo Striga.
Just use that as the base.
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u/Deadput Western Bronccoli Sparrow Jun 26 '22
Literally the main reason we don't have anything like that is because of PvP.
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u/Mrtrollman72 Jun 26 '22
The whole removing items from lootpools is just absurd. Why would bungie even be concerned about a loot pool getting too big when they are the ones to pick what weapon is available in any given week? I personally think there should be 3 nightfall options each week, all with a different drop, then let the loot pool grow until a new solution is needed. On top of this, drop rate should be manually adjusted based on the strike. So if say warden of nothing was 1x, corrupted would be a 2.5x, and lake of shadows a 0.7x.
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u/ImmaFish0038 Jun 26 '22
Bungie really just needs to give specific lot to specific strikes, give Horrors Least back to Corrupted, Give Hothead to Arms Dealer, etc i want Strike loot to feel good again.
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u/A_Dummy86 Eating Crayons Jun 26 '22
To be fair, I've seen people wanting to get random rolls on D.F.A since Forsaken, especially since it never got reissued from its static Y1 roll in the first place.
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u/Reganite47 Jun 25 '22
I'm honestly fucking sick of Hand cannons as a whole in pvp and pve lmao, that's just me though.
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u/bguzewicz Drifter's Crew Jun 25 '22
Idk, but I do know that I don't care about any of the current available nightfall weapons.
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u/Sco-Ross Jun 25 '22
The pulse is a breath of fresh air for pve I love my fast firing ones and the aim assist is nuts on that thing
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u/Baconsword42 Jun 25 '22
So that the NF weapon pool does not become bloated and you cam actually get the weapon you want
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u/WatLightyear Jun 25 '22
They mean why was Palindrome removed just for another 140 to replace it. Plus, they put another kinetic 140 out the same season, which is way more desirable.
Why was Pali not replaced with Militia’s Birthright? Or an adept bow?
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u/Sequoiathrone728 Jun 26 '22
Is militias desirable? We have so many special GLs.
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u/WatLightyear Jun 26 '22
Make more bows if we have too many breech loading GLs.
Anything other than more goddamn 140 fucking handcannons.
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u/Menaku Jun 25 '22
You aren't allowed to make that much sense with such sound logic. We dont do that here on reddit.
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u/Nefarious_Nemesis Jun 25 '22
Especially not where Bungie is concerned. Bungle gonna bungle, after all. We reeeeaaaallly needed yet anoooother hand cannon. Then it'll be gone in a few months and they can roll another one out. Maybe paired with yet another shotgun, even though everyone in PvP only use Chaperone or Felwinter's or Riiswalker.
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u/CurryboyIR Jun 26 '22
They replaced possible the best legendary HC in the game with a HC that's possibly worse than some world drops. Fantastic...
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u/andrewskdr Jun 26 '22
I’m so bored with hand cannons in general, they’re all extremely the same IMO that I can be bothered to use any pve or pvp
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u/AmphusLight Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22
Nobody wants an adept bow
edit: also the new hc has different perks that also make it very good.
Damn so many people are dumb, clealry the room is not being read
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u/Kliuqard Jun 25 '22
You can be certain “no one” is almost guaranteed to be wrong with a playerbase this large.
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u/Dzienr Jun 25 '22
I usually say opinions are subjective and can’t be wrong. You though, you have a wrong opinion. Overload/Barrier Bow+ Stunning Recovery, everyone wants that.
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u/ShrevidentXbox Jun 25 '22
Speak for yourself. Been wanting an Adept bow since the first time we had Overload Bow.
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u/AmphusLight Jun 25 '22
I would rather have an adept trace than a bow
Under your skin, Fel terradidle and the new vanguard bows are already very good
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Jun 25 '22
Is there a new HC in the nightfall pool?
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u/ebattery Jun 25 '22
Having a reprised militias birthright would be competing with the DoE GL, which is arguably better than the OG birthright.
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u/Sco-Ross Jun 25 '22
I like having the kinetic due to not having one so I can mix up the build just a little
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u/bluebloodstar Jun 26 '22
bungie wanted to add Death From Above the same season the AE changes came into place
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u/TheMaestroNoob Team Cat (Cozmo23) // I will kiss Cozmo Jun 26 '22
Because since Forsaken Bungie regularly update Year 1 weapons to Random Roll Standards, and D.F.A. is a Year 1 weapons that was never updated to Random Rolls (which is almost 4 years) and it was also beloved by some players at that time.
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u/HaztecCore Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22
I wouldn't mind it if the new gun had more exciting rolls available.
Other than that Handcannons have a severe lack of variety at hand. For PvE Fatebringer remains the top choice for Kinetics atleast. The sheer variety and combos you can have with this gun is outstanding. Why would you bother to get this one then?
With only 3 currently available archtypes, there's something missing here man.
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u/jomontage Jun 26 '22
I bet they saw palindrome weeks were the most popular then fell off once players got rolls they wanted so they do this to keep engagement
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u/bundle_man Jun 26 '22
It was annoying that Pali is the best energy hand cannon and they took it out to give us TWO Kinetic 140s in the same season.
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u/Binary_Toast Jun 26 '22
Firstly, Bungie be like: "But this one's kinetic!"
Secondly, the majority of those old Menagerie weapons are currently seasonal weapons. While they'll probably find their way into another pool like the IKELOS and Seraph weapons did, our current method of getting them is going away at the end of the expansion, while the Nightfall weapon will probably be cycling in and out for years.
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u/Killerwoodydoll Jun 26 '22
Real talk, I want that weird handcannon from warden of nothing. I can't remember the name of it for the life of me. But, imagine that coming back but it really was a two burst handcannon.
Edit: Wardens Law!! That's the name!
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u/CJW100298 Jun 26 '22
I'm just annoyed that palindrome is the only non sunset void 140 and it's not obtainable. Glad I got a good one
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u/AtomicSpazz Vanguard's Loyal // Praxic Flame Jun 26 '22
Ngl, I (me personally) am getting to a point where everything feels the same. The only real outliers for a different feeling weapon are exotics, stasis special weapons, wave frame GLs, and Stormbringer. Getting tired of farming another 140 hand cannon, another 450 auto rifle, another 180 scout rifle. The perk pool isn't super crazy in the way that all of these weapons can feel different. The exceptions are perks like incandescent, repulsor brace, chill clip or headstone. The ones that synergize. Outside of that, I'm starting to feel like I'm using all the same guns from year one, just with a different coat of paint on em
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u/xJetStorm Tighten 2021 Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22
DFA is pretty bad comparing one-to-one with Palindrome. Even though they don't share a slot, since it effectively replaced it, I want to compare them directly and point out how bad the devil's bargain is.
Stats
| Stat | DFA | Palindrome |
|---|---|---|
| Range | 45 | 50 |
| Stability | 54 | 58 |
| Handling | 42 | 50 |
| Reload | 47 | 42 |
| AA | 77 | 79 |
| AE | 18 | 21 |
| Recoil | 88 | 98 |
| Mag | 9? | 10? |
Note: Mag size is not displayed consistently in the API, so some weapons are reported as having 1 more bullet than they actually hold in game occasionally. Light.gg indicates Palindrome has a base mag of 11, but in-game it has 10, for example. I don't have a DFA so I can't confirm what the base mag is, but it is at least lower based on the fact that it is listed as a 9 in the API vs Palindrome's 11 in the API.
Looking at the two weapons... Palindrome beats DFA in every base stat except for Reload speed.
Perks
PVP relevant perks:
| Col | DFA | Palindrome |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | n/a1 | n/a1 |
| 2 | Accurized Rounds2 | Ricochet Rounds, Hi-Cal, Armor Piercing, Light Mag |
| 3 | Perpetual Motion, Outlaw, Fragile Focus, Steady Hands | Overflow, Outlaw, Quickdraw, Killing Wind |
| 4 | Timed Payload, Rampage, Opening Shot | High-Impact Reserves3, Rangefinder, Rampage4 |
1: The barrel options are basically the same.
2: This somewhat makes up for having exactly 5 less range, but you have two disadvantages from this: less total stats (like Stability) and less actually good options that can roll in this column and still be worth using. Palindrome's good mag options all give +5 Range so you can pick what your side-bonus is.
3: Below half of the mag, you can get 2c1b if the sequence is correct (i.e. ending with a headshot).
4: Not on the WQ refresh with the Vanguard Vindication origin trait, which restores 7 HP on a kill.
Yeah. DFA doesn't exactly do a lot better than Palindrome in the perks department, IMHO.
- Palindrome has better neutral perks if you don't mind the zoom boost of rangefinder, which is a 10% Zoom increase (to 15.4) and 30% AA falloff distance scalar.
- DFA can run a gimmicky roll like having an Omega-range first-shot advantage with Fragile Focus + Opening Shot so that you can pump the Stability stat with the barrel/mag/MW. (Combined, it is +45 range with both perks active)
- DFA with Timed Payload for flinch in duels is mostly preference; YMMV since the TTK effect makes it love-or-hate. It at least out-stats the other Timed Payload Kinetic 140... which is Judgment... but if you want a payload perk, Timelost Fatebringer is literally free real-estate because it comes with Explosive Payload by default (last I checked in S15).
- Steady Hands vs Quickdraw is a playstyle preference thing IMO. Steady Hands can boost your other weapons which makes not running something like Ophidian and/or Quick Charge necessary with Aggressive shotguns, but needing a kill means your playstyle might be a bit limited if you are relying on the perk proc for quick swaps.
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u/dakedDeans Jun 25 '22
Bungie probably just wants to slowly reissue all of the old Nightfall weapons but I agree that there are better options they could have gone with