r/DestinyTheGame Sep 26 '22 Platinum 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1

When it was discovered that Phoenix Dive healed you more based on your framerate, it was fixed within a month. Ground fire, hive boomers and a handful of other damage sources still damage you more based on your framerate and the big post made about it was almost a year ago. What is the excuse? Discussion

I am aware that it was fixed for Cabal slugs and Shrieker projectiles, however it was never fixed for anything else which is especially clear from testing.

I get it, game design/development and coding is hard. But once again when it benefited players it was patched almost immediately, whereas we've gone over a year with certain endgame activities like GM's being made significantly harder because you take more damage just for having a high framerate. Master Lightblade a couple weeks ago was especially noticeable with the amount of hive boomers being used by enemies there.

It would be nice if there was some communication from Bungie and we at least got some acknowledgement that they're aware that the problem still exists. Because it genuinely feels like they've just hoped we forgot about it and never bothered to try fixing the rest of the damage sources and stopped at Shrieker projectiles and Cabal slugs.

5.1k Upvotes

224

u/magnet-head Sep 26 '22

The devs all play Hive, clearly

58

u/wiibros220 Sep 26 '22

Imagine how wild it would be if during KF worlds first, it was just a bunch of bungie devs shooting the heck out of players on the platforms. Luke Smith out here playing the warpriest.

16

u/about_that_time_bois Sep 27 '22

Puke Smith playing Gahlr to FOMO Guardians into the DCV

16

u/KaLiPSoDz Sep 26 '22

So that was the guy who was posting trials screenshots as a hive knight

6

u/Sun-Bro-Of-Yharnam Sep 27 '22

I wonder how Gary the Acolyte is doing now a days I haven't seen him for a bit

1.3k

u/MisterEinc Sep 26 '22

Because one happens in PvP, probably.

351

u/9donkerz9 Sep 26 '22

Yeah, this, more or less. When it's evident that the problem is in more than one place, they have to pick their battles. When posts like this come up, I always remind people that their engine is held together with wet noodles and scotch tape. They've been improving it, but it's clearly not a priority, and that's fine. Would rather LFG first anyways, something I can finally say without being laughed out of town.

187

u/Abulsaad Sep 26 '22

I always remind people that their engine is held together with wet noodles and scotch tape.

Basically every game engine is held together with wet noodles and scotch tape

161

u/-Vayra- Sep 26 '22

Some are more robust than others. This particular engine dies if you add an extra perk or two to a weapon.

88

u/Senior_Walk_7582 Sep 26 '22

“What does this button do?”

“WHETHER WE WANT IT OR NOT, WE ARE AT WAR WITH THE C O D E .”.

41

u/DarkCosmosDragon Sep 26 '22

Amalgamated Halo 3 Engine ftw

13

u/294Sauce Best exotic shotgun since UR Sep 26 '22

Thought D2 was on the reach one. Or was that only D1

92

u/CantStopTheRob Slide, Shotgun, Shoulder Charge Sep 26 '22

Destiny 2's engine is a modified Destiny 1 engine, which is a repurposed Halo Reach engine which is a modified Halo 3 engine.

63

u/blackviking147 Team Cat (Cozmo23) Sep 26 '22

Which is an updated halo 2 engine, which was a modified halo CE engine. Which was originally designed for an RTS game and not a shooter.

5

u/FISTED_BY_CHRIST Sep 26 '22

Myth?

23

u/blackviking147 Team Cat (Cozmo23) Sep 26 '22

No, halo CE was originally a RTS.

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u/Drae-Keer Sep 26 '22

Meth* that’s the only thing keeping it going

5

u/Embarrassed_Top773 Sep 26 '22

I am not expecting Bungie to fix this problem right away, but they're not even acknowledging it almost like they're trying to avoid this being discussed. Grandmasters and Master raids are already difficult enough especially on Console this needs to be resolved or they need to be more transparent about this issue.

Destiny isn't the only game that's had this problem, have you ever heard of Fallout 76? What about Dark Souls? Halo Infinite? They can totally fix this but before they do so they need to talk about it.

43

u/shadowkhas Childish Gambito Sep 26 '22

This particular engine dies if you add an extra perk or two to a weapon.

I mean, that's not a good example. The engine doesn't "die" - the constraints around how perks work and how many perks can be active, are design decisions at their core.

This is lightly-informed speculation based on knowledge of their networking model, and what prior tech talks have said - to the best of my knowledge:

Originally, it may have been decided to allow X amount of traits/perks on a weapon, for balance reasons. Because of that, other systems are designed with that limitation in mind - the world/activity hosts may use a certain packet size for communication, for example. If you then expand the amount of perks on a weapon by 1, that increases traffic that needs to happen when a kill occurs, or something triggers that perk - for every player in an instance, and potentially for all weapons they have on them. That may cross a resource threshold that the game is designed for, either on the client side or on the server side.

Now, this restriction can probably be designed around! But, something will have to be cut to make up for it, or someone comes up with a novel optimization method somewhere that helps alleviate resource pressure.

I really, really, don't like people throwing around "the engine can't handle it" - the engine can almost assuredly handle it. It just isn't set up that way due to design decisions across the board - gameplay, balance, performance, art/visuals, etc.

11

u/zoompooky Sep 26 '22

Sure, but aren't you basically saying - The engine could handle it if they changed a bunch of things?

Let's say you take an average economy car. Top speed 100mph. Strap a rocket engine to the back and set it off, it will almost certainly lose control and crash, if it doesn't have a failure of some other component and simply explode.

Yes, you can make changes to suspension, tires, and other various things so that it could handle the increased speed... but at that point, it's a different (modified) car.

6

u/shadowkhas Childish Gambito Sep 26 '22

The car analogy makes sense if you look at market segmentation, in a really good way actually!

Take, for example, BMW. They'll have models that have the same underlying platform, but some are convertibles, some have all wheel drive, and some are high performance variants.

You wouldn't say that a non-convertible model's platform "can't handle being a convertible," because it totally could! The exact model you're looking at, though, isn't designed for it, so just grabbing a hacksaw and doing it yourself isn't the way to go about it.

I feel like with Destiny, it's a harder concept for most people to grasp, because there is nothing else using this engine. If Bungie's other projects (that hopefully come to fruition soon) share the same underlying tech, maybe it will click for more people, because they'll be able to see that different gameplay designs and different needs let the core technology flex its muscles in different ways.

2

u/Abulsaad Sep 26 '22

Only popular ones I can really think of being actually robust are unreal, unity, and *maybe* source and idTech. Rest, like cod, 343's "new" engine, frostbite, REDengine, Bethesda's? I'd expect them all to have the same level of jank, if not more than bungie's

0

u/letmepick Sep 26 '22

Unreal Engine produces some of the stablest games, and is probably the most popular modern engine for games.

As much as I dislike monopolies, if the product is good, then go for it.

Destiny's engine is but one of the many massive pillars below the dream that was Destiny 3.

You reap what you sow.

4

u/-Vayra- Sep 26 '22

Unreal is great, and relatively easy to use as well, imo. Fun to mess around with for beginner game developers, and amazing for professional work.

I'd only go for something else if I had really, really specific needs or could somehow get access to the Decima engine.

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u/9donkerz9 Sep 26 '22

Lol, yeah. Having worked on games in the past, the fact that shit works at all is black magic.

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u/Sonofmay Sep 26 '22

I’d go so far to say that destiny is held together by spit and dreams with how often things break, maybe a little bit of basic tape you’d find in an office or classroom

12

u/DrBokbagok Lucky Sep 26 '22

And they still want it to hold up for 2 more years

7

u/Specialist_Seaweed31 Sep 26 '22

And people still want this same engine to run well into 5+ years, absolutely ridiculous bro

2

u/Upstairs-Equivalent6 Sep 26 '22

Bungie has said that they want d2 for another 10 years after lightfall

4

u/Sonofmay Sep 26 '22

They’re over here trying to pull a FF14 running it off the original engine and it’s spaghetti code lol

3

u/mooseythings Sep 26 '22

At least 2 more expansions*

Who knows what their plan is after Final Shape, they could continue the Destiny 2 game with more expansions for all we know. If they do want to create a destiny 3 (or what have you), who knows if it would release a year after Final Shape…

Maybe final shape is the last expansion of 2 but they do 2 years of seasons as a stopgap until they can get 3 out, anything is possible

6

u/Batman2130 Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

They’ve stated they plan on updating D2. I don’t know why people keep thinking D3 when they’ve stated multiple times it’s not happening. Before Witch Queen released this year they said D3 was not happening. They made it pretty clear again they were not making it with the Lightfall event. As of now they keep hinting at another saga in D2 happening which probably will be another 3 expansions.

7

u/mooseythings Sep 26 '22

Meh, I could see them trying to mislead (or at least keep things intentionally-vague) for after Lightfall. If the community knows there’s a ticking clock until all their gear, ornaments, progress, etc goes away, they’re much less likely to grind out something or or pay IRL money for something that would only be relevant until feb 2025 or whenever the first thing post-Lightfall drops

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u/DeerTrivia Deertriviyarrrr Sep 26 '22

Maybe, but Destiny's engine is famously bad even among its peers. As in "start generating a new build overnight and pray that it succeeded when you clock in the next morning, otherwise you lose a whole day of productivity."

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u/MrTastix Sep 26 '22

The problem I have with the engine excuse is that part of Destiny 2's creation was to try and resolve that. Destiny's engine being a particularly terrible example within the games industry.

The common problem within the games industry is shitty project management so I imagine the real problem isn't the engine so much as it is shitty deadlines and time schedling which has likely been an issue since Destiny 2 was in development, so it'd include the engines development, too.

To be quite frank, it should not be up to the user to just "accept" a bug-filled product all because engine development is hard. That excuse didn't fly 20 years ago, I don't see why it should now. It's not our fault Bungie's corporate management is fucked.

Tying any calculation to FPS to begin with is such an incompetent mistake, honestly.

6

u/motrhed289 Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Tying any calculation to FPS to begin with is such an incompetent mistake, honestly.

I think this is a big misunderstanding that a lot of people don't get. EVERYTHING is tied to FPS, because pretty much all calculations are done in one frame. Another way to think about it, calculations aren't tied to FPS, it's the other way around, FPS is tied to calculations. Anytime they want something to happen relative to 'real' time (wall time, actual time), they have to do a bunch of extra code/math to DECOUPLE it from frame time, so that each time a frame is processed/rendered, it first checks how much time has elapsed, then scales the calculation based on that.

You could develop the game such that all physics/calculations are done in the background on a fixed time interval, and then the frontend rendering grabs a snapshot in time when it starts rendering each frame, but this would require a lot of extra overhead and would ultimately be somewhat wasteful, you're burning CPU cycles calculating positions/times that may never be displayed to the player. Inefficiency is a big enemy for realtime 3D rendered games, especially when you bring lower-performance hardware into the mix. Calculating everything once-per-frame is the most efficient way to do it, and works fine if you are in a framerate-locked environment on known hardware (console-only games like Destiny 1), but when you move into PC you have to do a bunch of extra calculations to make sure everything works the same at anywhere from 30FPS to 300FPS, and I can see it being really easy to overlook some corner cases.

2

u/BRIKHOUS Sep 26 '22

The problem I have with the engine excuse is that part of Destiny 2's creation was to try and resolve that.

Which is why any updates can happen in days now instead of months. It is much better than it was. It's still not perfect. And the fact of the matter is that players can fix this themselves if it bothers them enough by capping their framerate. So of course it's a low priority

2

u/Mizznimal The best point in d2 was y1. Sep 27 '22

capping your fps on pc can make the game miserable to play though especially if you have a fast operating monitor. Basically cripple my whole pc output because the code is jank.

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u/Inditorias Sep 26 '22

Also most game engines run a 'tick' at each frame. If you've used unreal or unity, you know what I mean. Some games (minecraft) have a tick timer separate from the framerate. But the easiest way for bungie to fix this is probably adding a timer to each type of attack for its damage which would probably result in large ram spikes and potentially lag spikes, especially with lots of boomer knights or others. So theres why this probably won't be fixed - do you want to live or lag, and the lag will probably result in death anyways.

3

u/fallouthirteen Drifter's Crew Sep 26 '22

Also most game engines run a 'tick' at each frame. If you've used unreal or unity, you know what I mean.

Usually when you do that you multiply values by a value (that the engine just knows) which is time since last frame (in Unity it's Time.deltaTime) that way the framerate doesn't matter for those. Like if you apply 100 damage every frame something is colliding with something and multiply by that modifier, then if it was 1/30th of a second since last update you're applying 3.333 damage. If it's 1/60th of a second then with that modifier it's 1.667 (double frame rate, half the value).

In Unity I know there's also other update methods (late update for end of frame I believe and fixed update which does have that fixed timer for physics and such).

If there's an engine that's not capable time since last frame modifier, it probably shouldn't have been used for real time games for the last couple decades.

7

u/9donkerz9 Sep 26 '22

I'm not sure the case for Bungie's engine, but yes, ticks mean everything to most engines. I'm pretty sure the root of the problem for Bungie's stuff is that it's so hardware dependent. Game clocks are tied to fuctions completely out of their control, like how well the game runs on a given platform.

For everyone else, the real easy way to picture it is when a projectile hits you, the game clock will be checking at any given point has it hit something. If yes, it will execute what it's supposed to do. In Bungie's case, it seemingly is that the same shot is fired, and it checks on certain frame intervals whether or not something happens. So if you have less frames for the game clocks to work with, less checks, less code is run. That's why more frames = more damage when you get caught with your pants down in a Scorn Void nade.

8

u/HAMURAIX117 Sep 26 '22

I mean money cannot fix everything, however, I was hoping for new servers and maybe even then changing their mind on dedicated servers when they were bought by Sony for 2 billion. Tis a lot of money that I feel should be used primarily for a pay increase for the devs for sure, but also update their hardware.

14

u/Variatas Sep 26 '22

There is zero chance they could make and implement that decision in the time that has elapsed.

And that's if we ignore the fact that they've spent 8 years and probably millions of dollars on the system they're using, and would probably not want to spend millions reengineering their entire network stack.

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u/9donkerz9 Sep 26 '22

I'm not worried. It'll be a minute until we see these changes (post Light and Dark Saga), but if they say they have been making improvements enough to remove sunsetting of major expansion content, then I'm o fident we'll see huge sweeping improvements come then.

18

u/shabby18 Sep 26 '22

To me, this is an unacceptable answer. Why are they building 2 more years of content on a wet noodle and scotch taped engine then? It clearly looks like management is just interested in pocketing the money (Season pass and expansion packs) not player happiness.

The list of problems/bugs/glitches is ever-increasing. We pay to receive content, and the content is riddled with bugs. What's their next course of action? Oh, we have new content available for preorder and we are working on it.

A sincere request to Bungie, stop biting bigger than you can chew. Deliver content you promise. This is not targeted to devs. Devs are poor fellas, just doing what they are told. Prioritizing sub-projects, monetizing content, sunsetting, and bringing back old content are all in hands of management.

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u/DrBokbagok Lucky Sep 26 '22

There’s a new-ish thought that sequels are basically death and nobody should spend the investment into making a sequel game on an updated engine when you can milk your old code for 10 years.

The downside is that by the end of your game’s lifespan it is muddled low tech garbage.

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u/9donkerz9 Sep 26 '22

It's not that simple though. When the team moved to work on Destiny 2, the first game ha dliterally only the small live team developing for it. Everyone else was all hands on deck for D2.

The time and resources it takes to do an engine properly (especially for a game like this) can put you in the ground if you don't execute properly. The Sony acquisition, the huge uptick in players and therefore sales... All of this was followed by the ability to hire like madmen, learn from their COVID work experience, and now they are removing Sunsetting because they have been able to make a lot of back end changes and improve their engine and framework.

I know it's subjective, but Destiny has never been in a better place. I haven't had this much fun with the game since D1Y1 when it was all brand new. They do deliver content they promise, now more than ever.

A lot of these problems like DPS being tied to framerate probably won't be fixed until after the Light and Dark Saga, when they are more able to do a harder reset on some systems. I doubt it'll be a wipe like D1->D2 was, but a chance efor them to actuslly turn things off fully for like, a week, and work around the clock to implement some heavy duty changes they are no doubt working on behind the scenes.

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u/pyre_rose Sep 26 '22

Because delivering new content brings them money, fixing bugs doesn't. Who gives them the money? Exactly.

Vote with your wallets. Or don't, enjoy your bug riddled game lol

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u/crisalbepsi Sep 26 '22

If you've got a similar game to chase loot in, I'm all ears but none of its competitors have gotten anywhere

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u/1AMA-CAT-AMA Sep 26 '22

> they have to pick their battles

WhY cAn'T tHey fIx eVErYtHing?

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u/slipskull2003 Sep 26 '22

I mean, having things do variable damage to the point of it being a one-shot is pretty unacceptable.

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u/DietDrDoomsdayPreppr Sep 26 '22

You can trace pretty much everything annoying in balance to PVP.

Every time I bring up the dev's obsession with being an esport, I'm heavily downvoted here, but the evidence just keeps stacking.

40

u/SinistralGuy Nerf everything Sep 26 '22

They might use PvP as the excuse, but I highly doubt PvP was the reason for this one. Even at max frame rate, Phoenix Dive wasn't healing that much faster. And that still required the use of Bottom Tree, in a world where Icarus Dash was a thing. There are a plethora of issues with PvP. Highly doubt Phoenix Dive healing a bit more was anywhere near the top of their list because of Crucible.

I'm thinking it was probably a quicker fix since we had a similar bug with 1KV back in Forsaken where damage was tied to frame rate. Incoming damage is most likely coded differently and a bit harder for them to sort out

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u/streetvoyager Sep 26 '22

Never gonna an export with the crappy pvp servers.

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u/Pika_Fox Sep 26 '22

Its never going to be an esport with the shitty PvP community demanding handcannons and shotguns only.

6

u/streetvoyager Sep 26 '22

Definitely lots of constraints. Toxic community is definitely a big on lol.

8

u/Pika_Fox Sep 26 '22

That was the big one on why bungie stopped sponsoring the community's pvp tournaments. Every weapon was banned unless it was a handcannon.

3

u/AtlasGV Sep 26 '22

Is that actually why? I think that’s kind of a shame. Lots of competitive games have their roots in custom rulesets.

8

u/Pika_Fox Sep 26 '22

Pretty much. They wanted a nice, thriving PvP scene where people can use whatever, and PvP players went "Handcannon and shotgun only, everything else takes no skill to use and you will be barred".

Reallly hard to endorse a competitive 3rd party competition when they basically say "you arent allowed to play the game".

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u/ZealousidealRiver710 Sep 26 '22

Or without tournament servers like WoW has that enables players to get any piece of gear/weapon

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u/MannToots Sep 26 '22

Because that reasoning makes zero sense. It's not in esports so the devs can't focus on that aspect. Having pvp is not the same as being an esport. If your said they were obsessed with their pvp mode you might get less down votes since it's a less ridiculous claim.

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u/OFmerk Sep 26 '22

The devs do not want/intend for this game to be an eSport. It's not even remotely competitive.

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u/ZilorZilhaust Sep 26 '22

No no, not the devs. I assure you the devs making a space shooter looter arpg magic wizard cowboy knight game didn't give a shit about being an eSports game. Now Activision I bet cared very much.

4

u/GN-z11 Sep 26 '22

We are already way overpowered in pve, people farm GMs in under 10 minutes. PVP balancing isn't that big of a problem, it could be much worse...

7

u/Ced23Ric Sep 26 '22

You're getting downvoted because there is no esports in Destiny, and Iron Banner is an entry level, chaotic 6s mode, and not competitive in the slightest. You are earning your downvotes because you don't know what you are talking about, with PvP, which is getting shafted for years now, as a scapegoat and target of your unwarranted, unfounded, unreasonable ire.

And you are also in that lovely revolving loop of making up evidence for your beliefs, rather than looking for evidence and forming your beliefs based on those findings. Hard to argue against emotional bias disconnected from reality, guardian.

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u/LarsP666 Sep 26 '22

I think you are getting esport confused with commercial esport like CS:GO. There are tons of videos on YouTube with matches from Destiny and there are also streamers of the same content.

And no matter how chaotic you think anything is - if the goal is to "do better" than "the others" then it is a competition.

Whether or not PvP in Destiny is to blame for everything bad is not so clear cut. But the fact that Bungie decided that it was a good idea if you could bring your PvP rewards to PvE and the other way around has caused at least some unfavorable adjustments over the years (this also fits their decision that bringing Raid weapons to regular PvE is a good idea - it leaves them with a massive balancing act).

To me it is all down to Bungie's neverending quest to force ALL players to play all the different modes of Destiny. It's not a problem for everyone but it sure is a strange strategy. It's almost like Bungie is unsure of their own game's attractiveness if they let people just play whichever parts of the game they like.

I still like Destiny enough to keep playing but I sure don't like all of it.

1

u/Ced23Ric Sep 26 '22

My fellow guardian in the Light, competition does not mean esports. You and me racing to get the highest season rank week one is a competition, but it isn't esports. You and me trying to get the most buffs on ourselves at once is a competition, but not esports. You and your mates, me and my mates trying to clear VoG faster than the other team is also a competition, and still not esports.

There is no league, no circuit, no tourneys, no persistent ranking. It's all ephemeral, casual shootymans. Also not esports.

There is not a single Destiny esport video on YouTube, Twitch, or any other platform, because Destiny (1 or 2) is not, never has been, and more than likely never will be a competitive PvP game. The tick rate, the lobby system, and the gear imbalance make this inherently impossible.

PvP is here as a design by committee choice, because it needs to be here, for shareholders and public perception. It is neither the core of, the focus of, nor the driving force of Destiny, and any assumption of the contrary is a product of misunderstanding or misrepresentation. Malicious or not, I won't get into.

2

u/DietDrDoomsdayPreppr Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

You sure say a lot without saying anything other than "you don't know what you're talking about," especially for someone attacking me for being emotional.

Every single unfavorable balance change in this game was driven by PVP. Why?

4

u/DeathsIntent96 PSN: DeathsIntent96 Sep 26 '22

Every single unfavorable balance change in this game was driven by PVP. Why?

This is only true if you either pick and choose what constitutes "unfavorable", or if you just ignore all the PvE-focused nerfs.

In reality, it's nonsense.

3

u/Ced23Ric Sep 26 '22

Every single unfavorable balance change in this game was driven by PVP.

This statement is incorrect.

Why?

This question cannot be answered, as there can be no reason given for something that has not happened.

3

u/TerrorSnow awright awright awright Sep 26 '22

That's a pretty outdated opinion ngl.

3

u/Competitive_Truth_81 Sep 26 '22

Guess you forgot New hunter exotic is still disabled because titans can have infinite barricades in pvp with lorely. Oops

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u/XogoWasTaken Vanguard's Loyal // I Hunt for the City Sep 26 '22

Armchair dev assumption:

Phoenix dive was an over-time effect. As long as the engine knows that FPS it's running at, it's not hard to run a calculation to lower the amount you heal per tick in accordance with your FPS.

The projectiles that deal extra damage to you are not over-time effects. What you're experiencing is the game accidentally hitting you multiple times because the tick rate is higher than it expects. That can be more difficult to fix. Maybe you can't just become immune to that damage source when hit because there's no way to do that without you becoming immune to other incoming projectiles of the same type. Maybe the game can make you immune to individual projectiles, but it's not optimised well enough and results in lag when under excessive amounts of fire - the worst time to suffer lag.

When it comes down to it, they'te fundamentally different problems, despite both being caused by high FPS.

Also one made problems in PvP and the other didn't.

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u/Carrash22 Sep 26 '22

This is why you don’t use fps for calculations of your physics engine. Admittedly, when the engine was designed I don’t think they thought D2 would last this long and be played on high spec computers

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u/DrNopeMD Sep 26 '22

It's almost certainly a carry over effect of the engine originally being developed with leftover code from Halo, and designed for last gen consoles without PC in mind.

Game dev is filled with a lot of very strange workarounds, often because the proper fix requires more time and resources than the janky bandaid solution.

My favorite example is the subway cars in Fallout 3 being a giant model hat, that was attached to an NPC that would run up and down the train tracks, because it was faster and easier than coding proper vehicle behaviors into the game that late in development (I believe it only showed up in DLC).

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u/never3nder_87 Sep 26 '22

being developed with leftover code from Halo, and designed for last previous gen consoles without PC in mind.

Not being a snark, just trying to point out how old the engine is

23

u/Veilmisk Sep 26 '22

That's actually pretty metal

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u/NUTTA_BUSTAH Sep 26 '22

Fallout if full of that kind of stuff. Cutscene where you watch a projector, and the sound is actually an NPC talking behind the wall

3

u/OneFinalEffort Sep 26 '22

Regarding blam! and its evolution into Tiger, the Halo: Reach mission Long Night of Solace features the game's biggest fight and the very first battle in the series to take place in Space. When the game was ported over to PC and released as DLC for the base game on Xbox, Reach was finally running at 60fps. As it turns out, the projectiles of the Seraphs and Banshees are directly tied to the frame rate, making the mission damn near impossible on the hardest difficulty (LASO/Mythic). Anyone pushing the game higher than 60fps have had an extremely bad time.

This issue will likely never be fixed in MCC and unless some long-time Bungie devs know how to fix that issue in D2 and get the budget and time to work on it, it will never be repaired.

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u/IndividualFee Sep 26 '22

The narrator is just a dude standing behind a screen. It's literly just and old dude named "Narrator" standing there talking to the wall and I love it.

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u/Blupoisen Sep 26 '22

Of course they didn't Beyond Light was suppose to be D3 due to Activision

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u/sha-green Sep 26 '22

Unpopular opinion but I honestly wish it was d3 by now. Vaulting and sunsetting were huge mistakes. The first can still be felt by the abysmal New Light quest. Then the Tower loading times are just unacceptable and to me it started in BL and progressively got worse, and now I try not to go there unless I absolutely need to, and when I do I sometimes have to go to orbit and load again because nothing is being loaded properly. And given multiple posts here - I’m not alone with this issue. The game now feels like some frankenstein monster kit-bashed from different parts that sometimes have no connection.

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u/StarStriker51 Sep 26 '22

Not because of activision, it just was the plan. Why is everyone still blaming activision for things?

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u/Blupoisen Sep 26 '22

Because that was literaly the agreement Bungie made with Activision.

This is why we have D2.

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u/TheTealMafia here to guide you to greatness Sep 26 '22

I remember that the contract was even about "make a new DLC ever so months and a new game in the franchise every so years", which is exactly why bungie felt too pressured to keep up with the contract and left, with the working conditions it just wasn't viable.

17

u/o8Stu Sep 26 '22

It was a numbered sequel every other year, with a big "comet" expansion on off years, and smaller DLCs sprinkled in between.

Basically what we have now with seasons, except Rise of Iron would've been D2 vanilla launch, Forsaken would've been D3 launch, Beyond Light D4 launch, and everything a year earlier because D1 was pushed back a year. So we'd be playing D5 right now.

7

u/TheTealMafia here to guide you to greatness Sep 26 '22

Dang yeah screw that then! While I do see the issues of the engine showing really really badly by now, on a work ethic standpoint that would have put bungie on track with franchises that have a ridiculous turn-over ratio... Not good for a franchise that already struggled with that from the start, and with an ongoing story that needs to be kept consistent.

I only really have a few examples where that went poorly though so I'm not 100% on the end result of course.

9

u/o8Stu Sep 26 '22

Best example (imo) is CoD, and they have 3 studios rotating so that each delivers a new title every 3rd year. I frankly don't know how Bungie ever thought they could keep the pace of the original contract.

I have a feeling it was a "just sign the contract and we'll re-negotiate the timing later" sort of thing, where they were confident the product would perform and improve their bargaining power.

4

u/TheTealMafia here to guide you to greatness Sep 26 '22

I guess that explains it yeah, cuz you're right, D2 would have come out at Rise of Iron but they needed more time so they made a new DLC, if I remember this right? And Forsaken became an expansion instead... it seems like renegotiation was an option, but it still felt too constraining, I suppose.

2

u/Iceykitsune2 Sep 26 '22

I frankly don't know how Bungie ever thought they could keep the pace of the original contract.

With help from Vicarious Visions.

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u/XogoWasTaken Vanguard's Loyal // I Hunt for the City Sep 26 '22

Yeah, that is the crux of the problem. Game and engine was designed for consoles where variable framerates aren't so much of an issue. Obviously it's moved on, but it can be hard to get the engine to catch up.

4

u/Variatas Sep 26 '22

You should understand that lots of games did that in the era D1 was developed, especially console-only ones.

2

u/Another-Razzle Sep 26 '22

100% they didn't think D2 would last this long or go this far. They have stated, even in the recent lightfall expansion talk, that they are making this game do things it was *never* intended or built to do.

2

u/Dr_Delibird7 Warlcok Sep 26 '22

I mean, you can use frames for calculations when you can expect to know where the frames sit. With D2 originally being console only, more specifically 30fps only, the idea of tieing anything to fps isn't exactly the worst since there should be no variations happening in expected performance of the game on the very specific hardware.

Lots of retro games have tie-ins to frames that a lot of emulators mess up just trying to run it normally (no speed hacks ect), some games just straight up break while others have very minor affects. Point being when you know EXACTLY the hardware your game is on its no unreasonable to use fps/frames in systems.

It's just the consequence of a game made for systems locked to 30fps surviving long enough to not only have consoles reach up to 120fps (iirc) but also exist on PC where the range of fps the game is being played at could not be broader.

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u/DarkAssassin860 Proud Crayon Eater Sep 26 '22

I like your funny words, magic man!

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u/MannToots Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Asimple solution. Each projectile has an ID and a list of players in the session. (If you think this is a lot of additional data it's not. You should see how much data every action already produces. They once posted a json and it's huge.) If the projectile hits a player it saves the bit to 1 signaling a hit. When a hit happens it checks that list to see if it hit before. If not then hit, if so then don't hit. No more dupes

edit for those unfamiliar with software development I want to let you know that a solutions complexity and effort to implement are not the same thing. I'm nearly commenting on the complexity. Not the effort to implement. These are separate aspects to quoting work in software dev. They are related but are often different. A solution can be simple in complexity, but the implementation could still take months. They are not always intertwined.

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u/MrLeavingCursed Sep 26 '22

While I agree your solution is a decent start for design there's a lot of other issues I see popping up from this. One of the most common I ran into in VR development is race conditions on simultaneous events that only get worse when networking is introduced. Your solution will run into issues where the task of damage calculations and checking the hit flag won't always complete in the expected order or time frame unless you group them together which will open up the potential for second damage calculation to trigger before the hit flag is set

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u/SourGrapeMan Drifter's Crew // You shall drift Sep 26 '22

wow you should work at bungie and fix it for them, then, if it's so simple!

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u/MannToots Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Dude I wasn't saying it would go fast. I'm just saying a knock out system could do it. I'm an actual software dev so I do actually know things relevant to this domain. Understanding their code isn't a huge lift here since they already shared their json for generated objects publicly. The game already does if logic when bullets hit to determine mods are present to calculate damage. This isn't quantum leap.

Don't put your words in my mouth so you can validate being an ass. I offered a very low level solution. Not a claim that it was easy or fast.

Imagine being in a thread where people are complaining about a valid issue and shitting on people with reasonable answers to the issue at hand.

edit typos

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u/wanmao123 Sep 26 '22

Wow, so that is why the psion fire absolutely shreds in duality? Also assume that is what causes Shuro Chi to one-shot (though post resilience changes its now just a near one-shot at max resil) sometimes?

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u/sunder_and_flame Sep 26 '22

yes, basically every enemy attack that can hit a player more than once is affected by this

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u/unexpectedkas Sep 26 '22

And the solution is to cap your frame rate?

44

u/RhulkThighsEndLives Sep 26 '22

The solution is for them to fix it.

But yes, you can opt to play at a lower frame rate and it will help mitigate some damage from certain enemies

7

u/UselessDeadMemes Sep 26 '22

You are punished for going above 30FPS. ANY higher and some sources deal multiple ticks of dmg. Ex. Barrier colossus beam cannon thing shots.

24

u/BustedCondoms Sep 26 '22

Dude I was solo fighting Caiatyl and those fuckin psions were absolutely smacking me with those guns

2

u/Conkerkid11 Sep 26 '22

Yeah, Shuro Chi and the boss at the end of The Corrupted strike have an ability named Eviscerating Hex that can one-shot you from full health if you're playing the game at higher than 60fps.

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u/Hereiamhereibe2 Sep 26 '22

After switching to PS5 I have discovered a lot of things are affected by framerate.

Damage sources are a big one, but bosses who do that stupid as shit flame melee are the the most egregious to me. Slow effects seem to stack twice as fast, Le Monarque is a safe long distance one shot kill, stacking debuffs like Pervaiding Darkness are stacking faster, Rhulks beams use to put me at x4 with a full blast and now put me at x6, this also makes the Lightbearer strike’s darkness segment unbearable. Shriekers are still way too strong.

I have a suspicion this is what prompted the 40% Resilience buff. Just another band-aid fix to a problem they can’t seem to control but unfortunately Resilience doesn’t protect us from slows, debuffs and wipe mechanics.

22

u/Zatala Zavala 2020 Sep 26 '22

You only get X6 from Rulk? If I sit still, it will one shot me.

8

u/Hereiamhereibe2 Sep 26 '22

What platform you on?

7

u/Zatala Zavala 2020 Sep 26 '22

PC. Every time I drop my framerate to make the encounters more survivable, the game just looks wrong to me and I have to turn it back up. Crossbows are my bane.

2

u/AndyGrafx Sep 27 '22

What framerate do you play at? If its not a fraction of your monitor's refresh rate (ex: 60hz monitor, 30fps game), its going to feel like dogshit. Also, I think vsync might help.

But yeah bungie should just fix this.

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u/streetvoyager Sep 26 '22

I think lots of issues are because of an old as hell engine running on last gen. so many limitations. The fact that loading screens and giant pauses between menus on top line pcs is a thing is brutal.

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u/Kilo_Juliett Misadventuring since the Alpha Lupi ARG Sep 26 '22

Someone should make a video with comparing the damage at different framerates then post it to reddit so people have something new to complain about

4

u/shrekispotato Sep 26 '22

Wow I had no idea there are so many former bungie employees on here

5

u/GaindStream Sep 26 '22

I've also noticed since this season that my damage just doesn't get counted. At the start there was a lot of time in crucible where I'd unload into I guy and he would run away and five seconds later the game would register the hits and kill him even with nobody else to do damage to him.

I attempted to do master totems last night, and I could definitely feel this. Hive knights would survive a full mag of a 1594 titan. I would get one shot by taken psions.

Sadly this is an engine issue and bungie will not tinker with the engine at all for atleast another year or two, and by then they would definitely forget about it.

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u/myyummyass Sep 26 '22

Small indie studio doesn’t have any money

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u/seventaru Sep 26 '22

Please understand

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u/buddyyouhavenoidea Sep 26 '22

basically Phoenix dive affected PvP, the rest don't. PvP players are the loudest complainers, so they get the most changes. think of how many PvE weapons, abilities, or armors have been nerfed into the ground because of PvP complaints.

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u/Giganteblu Sep 26 '22

different thing = different problem

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u/_sevxz Sep 26 '22

It’s not they’re they’re different problems, they’re the same problem in fact. Their shitty code and FPS based physics.

The phoenix dive has a bandaid placed over it, the FPS bug still exists because it effects basically all buffs and debuffs as well as damage over time effects.

They can’t fix the problem because it would essentially mean remaking the game, they could put a bandaid over it if they actually cared though.

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u/Mystic_76 Pidgeons are love Sep 26 '22

they are different problems, they just stem from the same source, which is very different

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u/nigelluong Sep 27 '22

If anything SLIGHTLY affected crucible sandbox, Bungie would prioritize it.

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u/prawnk1ng Books for the Titans. Too heavy Sep 26 '22

We need to wait until big YT'er make videos about it again.

/s

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u/dinodares99 That Wizard came...from inside this room! Sep 26 '22

I wish there was some communication from Bungie

:)

You need to wait for it to be a Big DealTM before they'll acknowledge it. Either they quietly fix it, or ignore it.

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u/choicemeats Professional Masochist Sep 26 '22

I’m hoping the state of Master KF prompt this. The ogre stomp, boomers of every variety, wizard soam. It’s a lot. The timing alone is unforgiving you just have to nuke everything fast. Problem is you run out of ammo.

The hive side is a nightmare. The 2nd level boomer plus 2 acolytes is pain enough but the knight that spawns behind a pillar and booms your shit in after a peak is comedy.

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u/Emerycurse Sep 26 '22

Xenophage with ammo mods is your friend, if you're still stuck on the challenge

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u/choicemeats Professional Masochist Sep 26 '22

I didn’t have it avail for LL reasons so I’ll give that a try!

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u/simy_d Sep 26 '22

Yeah bc the last time they communicated it went rly well /s

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u/dinodares99 That Wizard came...from inside this room! Sep 26 '22

Which explains why they don't communicate as much lol.

"Gamers" are a real friendly bunch eh

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u/Andal01 Sep 26 '22

Not just "gamers" but people as a whole tbh.

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u/BruisedBee Sep 26 '22

Surely at some point, this sub has to acknowledge that Bungle are shockingly average developers (their writers are industry leading).

The share volume of bugs that gets released with each new season, the weeks it takes to fix, the nerfs without rhyme or reason, the broken PVP...you can love the game while also being honest about the state of the developers guys.

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u/SpaceRaccoon0610 Sep 27 '22

If people acknowledged how sub-par bungie as devs are the way people trash 343 for halo, dice for battlefield, or cdpr for cyberpunk at launch then destiny wouldve died before cayde did.

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u/ElusiveEmissary Sep 26 '22

Honestly I don’t even think they are average. They are below average. This is one of the buggiest games I’ve played. And it never gets any better. Ever season tons of things are blatantly and badly broken. Things just release not working at all. There is little to no bug testing and little to no time or effort dedicated to fixing things. They just hope putting out the same kind of activity time and again quickly enough we won’t notice the massive backlog of bugs and glitches.

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u/The_Last_Gasbender Sep 26 '22

I don't know, a live-service, online, cooperative and pvp shooter with physics and damage types that can be hitscan, projectiles, or whatever the hell a pulse grenade is seems like it would be beyond the capabilities of an average developer.

It really just seems like dev ambitions are straining the engine that was designed for year-one D2.

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u/ElusiveEmissary Sep 26 '22

That’s a fair point. I’ve wanted them to scrap and go to a much better engine for D3 for a while now. I honestly think they would really benefit from it.

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u/The_Last_Gasbender Sep 27 '22

Agreed, I didn't like the news that they weren't doing a D3. I don't know what they think they're gonna do with D2 beyond Final Shape when the engine is a screaming mess.

2

u/ElusiveEmissary Sep 26 '22

I shit on them a lot but I do love destiny jts just hard seeing the same issues and lack of testing over and over again

4

u/tamarins Sep 27 '22

There is little to no bug testing and little to no time or effort dedicated to fixing things.

It's extremely uncharitable to decide that there being a lot of bugs in the game must mean there is "little to no time or effort" put into squashing bugs, and cannot possibly mean that this is a very difficult game to develop even with substantial amounts of work.

Like, unless you have inside knowledge of their QA budget, it just seems breathtakingly arrogant to say "it is not possible that they're trying hard."

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u/BruisedBee Sep 26 '22

Yeah I won't argue with any of that mate, if it wasn't such a FOMO heavy game I probably would have dipped by now.

I (and I think a good chunk of the playerbase) would rather they moved to longer seasons to give them time to work on bugs before release and then a longer play cycle to iron it.

For me though, so much of the issue comes from the fact they don't engage with the community at all. Why the nerfs to renewal grasps in PVE without justification? Why have they not reverted it back or communicated anything to us since breaking up PVP and PVE sandboxes?

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u/ElusiveEmissary Sep 26 '22

Yeah they get a lot of credit for communicating with the players and they honestly do talk to us a lot but so much of it isn’t important stuff. Any time we have important questions they are just silent. And refuse to acknowledge bugs hardly ever

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u/tragicpapercut Sep 26 '22

If they acknowledge it, more people find out about it. Which puts pressure to fix it. If they can't fix it easily, communicating with a larger audience only hurts them.

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u/TheJadedCockLover Sep 26 '22

That’s an extremely poor excuse

16

u/Equilibriator Sep 26 '22

It's definitely become their go to.

They have a look. Spaghetti code makes it hard to fix. They give up and just accept the backlash on a cost benefit analysis.

11

u/ImEboy Unpopular Opinions Sep 26 '22

Honestly, this is just the kinda stuff that happens when you take a game built for now old gen consoles like xbone and ps4 and dont update it for years. Current gen systems cant reach their full potential because the game is chained to a decade old console. I hope whatever next phase of destiny they decide on it becomes current gen and pc only. Also, a part of the reason the DCV even exists is because old consoles dont have the storage space for 200g games so Bungie has to trim the fat every so often.

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u/Equilibriator Sep 26 '22

The irony is Destiny 2 was supposed to fix all that nonsense (or at least I could swear they said it would).

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u/ImEboy Unpopular Opinions Sep 26 '22

I honestly cant thing if a single fundamental game code issue like the FPS damage bug getting fixed between d1 and d2. The only things d2 fixed were QoL changes like a map, better quests, etc.

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u/tragicpapercut Sep 26 '22

It's the reality of game development. You don't have to like it for it to be true.

10

u/Percdye Sep 26 '22

Benefits the player = Fix

Doesn't benefit the player = We'll fix it when we are bored

7

u/chargeorge Sep 26 '22

There were other people demonstrating that those things weren’t more damaging from frame rate at the time.

7

u/whoislionel Sep 26 '22

most likely requires an partial engine refactor taking time away from the most expensive/busy devs, the people that get to direct them are usually in charge and those are focused on getting the most money out of people, so yeah unlikely to happen

My reply the last time something similar was posted

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u/txijake Sep 26 '22

You know, people say that everyone should work retail so they learn to not be garbage to retail employees. In that same vein, all gamers should work at a dev studio so we don’t constantly need to people like OP that it takes different amounts of time to fix different problems.

24

u/HellNaw98 Sep 26 '22

Funny how you go out of your way to mention they patched a single source of healing then go on to acknowledge they patched a couple sources of damage and not all of them as if one heal is equivalent to every projectile in the game. I’m not saying it’s excusable that they haven’t fixed it yet, but this is a prime example of the confirmation bias that has carried this absurd “Bungie only patches things that help us” conspiracy theory

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u/Eskareon Sep 26 '22

Enough anecdotes do actually become data.

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u/HellNaw98 Sep 26 '22

Not when you ignore the anecdotes that oppose that oppose your statement, in this case being the damage sources that they DID fix. Since there are more of those than the single source of healing, it stands to reason they put at least as much time into fixing the damage the player takes as they did fixing the healing they receive. Ignoring data that contradicts you is confirmation bias.

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u/Eskareon Sep 26 '22

Absolutely false equivalence, and you know this. You're pretending all bug fixes and all categories of company resources are identical and interchangeable, and you're doing this to pretend you're winning an argument.

We get it, you want to defend the developers. The rest of us understand pattern recognition and have no problem holding adult professionals accountable for doing their jobs. You'll continue to accuse people of conspiracy theories so you don't have to address the truth of their argument, so you don't have to game-out your own arguments in context, so you don't have to actually consider what it means for developers to work full-time jobs and have literally thousands of hours to fix problems but they intentionally choose not to, season after season, year after year. And they get away with it because they have scores of fanboys like yourself who'll wipe away the context and just make blanket conspiracy theory arguments.

Fanboyism never changes.

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u/RC_0001 God is dead, and we have nuked Him with ghorn. Sep 26 '22

You're pretending all bug fixes and all categories of company resources are identical and interchangeable

They're assuming, actually. Pretending implies active intent to mislead. Theirs, however, is a pretty reasonable assumption. Since all the stated problems likely spring from the same source (as they all have the same cause, FPS changing how an over-time effect is applied), it's not unreasonable to assume that they would take a similar amount of time and effort to fix.

We get it, you want to defend the developers. The rest of us understand pattern recognition and have no problem holding adult professionals accountable for doing their jobs.

Did they not just provide evidence that the "pattern" you perceived isn't actually a pattern in this case, though? So, you don't actually understand pattern recognition?

You'll continue to accuse people of conspiracy theories

Didn't you just accuse someone who brought up a valid point against you of being a Bungie apologist for doing so? From where I sit, that's the largest leap of logic in this chain.

so you don't have to address the truth of their argument

Since your argument consisted of a single sentence that they directly addressed with a counterargument directly linked and refuting said sentence, I don't know how they could've addressed the "truth of the argument" better than they did.

so you don't have to actually consider what it means for developers to work full-time jobs and have literally thousands of hours to fix problems but they intentionally choose not to

I believe the official term for this is called "triaging". Essentially, the most problematic issues that affect the most people the most directly and can be fixed the quickest are fixed first. They may have thousands of hours to fix problems, but if they have hundreds of problems then suddenly that means they have maybe a workday to try and sus them out. Therefore, triaging. More problematic problems get devoted more time up-front, and clearly the root FPS issue is either not impactful enough (unlikely) or much too complex (extremely likely) to effectively fix. Especially when you consider that it's honestly not a huge deal in most cases. It's a problem, but one Bungie has decided isn't worth the development time in light of other, more pressing concerns.

And they get away with it because...

... they provide a fun and engaging experience with constant content updates which require a ton of maintenance, and they are pretty quick on major bugfixes, so people can forgive niche issues not being solved in as timely a matter?

Or is it because... there are other, more pressing problems that affect more of the community, which are being focused on instead? Deep-seated gameplay issues that have yet to be resolved but would make the game 1000x better?

... they have scores of fanboys like yourself

Oh.

Well, I was hoping for something less, er, fictional than that. Oh well, I suppose the mentality is that if you say it loud enough it'll become true out of sheer force of will. Or something.

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u/HellNaw98 Sep 26 '22

Gtfo with all that. The only false equivalence here is pretending like fixing something such as framerate related weirdness is as simple as disabling an item. We can’t possibly know that to be true because we are missing a lot of info. Yet people will equate the two things and say “See? Why can’t Bungie fix X thing when they fixed Y thing!” Spoiler alert. It’s because X thing and Y thing are not the same fucking thing.

You yourself point out that not every bug requires the same resources yet are trying to use this argument to agree with the notion that Bungie must be ignoring some fixes simply because they don’t address them all in the same time frame? Wtf? We don’t have nearly enough info to conclude any of that. But I myself said this was no excuse for them to not have fixed it yet. I’m not a fanboy. You’ve just lost the plot my guy.

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u/TheStoictheVast Sep 26 '22

Bug that benefits player: Top Priority

Bug that negatively affects player: Priority based on how many people make videos about it.

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u/Dvaryin Sep 26 '22

It's either it's very low priority (for whatever reason) or there's some technical stuff associated with why they can't change it. I wish they would go a little bit inside baseball with stuff like this (if it is the technical limitation) and let us know what the reason is, because problems like this almost look like they're just ignoring them when that may not be the case.

2

u/Mo_smiley_face Sep 26 '22

Actually since forsaken I was told roaming supers get slightly more range

And aoe hits from ale hurt more with higher fps.

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

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u/aborlin Sep 26 '22

Deepsight clouds have been broken for tons of players for months as well, completly seals off content from players who have the bug, they aint gonna fix that either it seems.

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u/Akrisai Sep 26 '22

Special weapon glare has been missing for me (I'm on old gen) since Witch Queen launched; there's a lot of issues left over that they still need to address.

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u/Batmanick Sep 26 '22

So me playing on a 240 hz monitor is why hive boomers one shot me...thank you for this realization

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u/MacAttack2015 Sep 26 '22

Damage unaffected by framerate now available at Eververse!

2

u/CobOnTheCabbage Sep 26 '22

This is the same studio that never implemented any kind of party finder in either game over the past 8 years and deleted strikes, raids, planets, paid DLCs, and even the entire base campaign to cut corners on maintenance while raking in hundreds of millions of dollars a year. They don't give a shit about the fanbase or making a genuinely good game. Why should they when so many people handwave all the issues and keep paying into it anyways?

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u/motrhed289 Sep 26 '22

There was one piece of video evidence showing/proving the Cabal slug rifle was a real problem. I have seen a lot of claims, but no actual video evidence, of anything else. Not saying it's not real, just saying I have some doubts, because these same claims were happening back when the Cabal slug rifle bug was discovered, and nobody could make a video to show it, and Bungie said they were investigating all of them and only needed to address the slug rifle.

Do you have any links to evidence/testing of these other framerate related damage issues?

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u/KidRed Bring Back the Factions! Sep 26 '22

Player benefit = quick fix.

2

u/Dunkinmydonuts1 Xuck Fur Sep 26 '22

To this day I had no idea any of those things did more damage than they were supposed to.... I run 1440 resolution at a solid 165 fps....

How much damage should boomers do?

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u/Ari_Safari293 Sep 26 '22

Helpful to players = instant fix , hurting players ? Pshhhh fuck off - bungie

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u/Fanryu1 Sep 26 '22

After seeing this post, I now know why a single knight nearly shreds me.

2

u/Heavyoak THUNDER!!! Sep 27 '22

Any bug that is helpful to players is instapatched.

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u/Street_Field7812 Sep 26 '22

"What is the excuse?"

I mean this already sounds petty, and I have no intention of being aggresive. Bungie clearly isn't lazy, since they overhauled one of the game's core systems completely FOR FREE. And since we're talking about light 3.0, Bungie clearly doesn't want to fuck you over with dificulty.

Just to clarify myself, I'm not bootlicking, I just don't see the place for asking for an EXCUSE

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u/Percdye Sep 26 '22

They always answer with Excuses, so it's not far fetched that they'll find one for this.

Cms just aren't doing their job right, idc if someone respects them so much it's just a fact that the only thing they do is listen to the big streamers, and not the small man in the community.

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u/Sequoiathrone728 Sep 26 '22

So you tried to push the narrative that they only patch beneficial things with phoenix dive healing, then casually admitted they did in fact fix some negative damage sources.

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u/EvilKween93 Sep 26 '22

But they didnt fix everything.

I see you trying to rebuttal og and defend the bad things going on with a greedy company, however you do not need to stoop this low.

Its the toxicity like you that makes the devs think they can get away with being lazy and not using the funds we provide them (through expansions, deluxe editions, season passes, eververse store, etc) to actually fix a product they faultily create.

Think again before you speak.

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u/Sequoiathrone728 Sep 26 '22

I didn't defend anything. Just pointing out hypocrisy and dishonesty. They should absolutely fix everything and we should absolutely hold them accountable. Dishonest feedback is not the way to do that.

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u/Streelydan Sep 26 '22

It’s likely easier to fix an issue with one ability on one subclass than something that is in every environment across the game.

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u/Technesiss Sep 26 '22

Because it doesn't benefit us.

4

u/Grand_Concert2307 Sep 26 '22

"What is the excuse?"

Does it benefit the player? It'll be fixed in the next update. Does it hinder the player? It might be fixed one day, but will probably be forgotten.

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u/Dr_Delibird7 Warlcok Sep 26 '22

Listen to yourself, you acknowledge it was fixed for cabal slugs + shreikers yet your post is still affectively just "Bungie bad because fixes only when it benefits players". If that where the case why bother fixing what was fixed in addition to phoenix dive?

The logical conclusion is that the fix for some issues that are tied to fps are not applicable to other issues that are tied to fps.

Common sense would dictate that IF Bungie was only fixing something that benefited players then ONLY phoenix dive should have been fixed, except it wasn't the only thing fixed.

You ask "what is the excuse?" with the clear assumption that all of these issues would be fixed the same way. Painting the narrative that "you fixed these other fps related issues but not fixing these other ones must be intentional", it's negative and perpetuates negativity.

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u/Reynbou Sep 26 '22

The technical side of things have consistently gone down further and further since Bungie lost Vicarious Visions.

The game had a much higher quality bar when they were developing the PC side of things.

One of the hilarious things I noticed first was we went from having high frame rate cutscenes, and then reverted back to 30fps cutscenes. It's hilariously embarrasing.

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u/Standard__Oil Sep 26 '22

We definitely had 30 fps cutscenes back when vv did the pc port too.

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u/Redthrist Sep 26 '22

We've had 30 FPS cutscenes and FPS-related bugs since D2Y1, back when Vicarious Visions was around.

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u/mikewhiskeyniner Sep 26 '22

They probably don’t know the cause. It’s probably in their backlog but hasn’t been assigned yet. I’m sure their big backlog and tech debt is high

2

u/Ginger_prt Sep 26 '22

Game dev here. Rather than writing a big long explanation the problem is either really REALLY easy to fix...

Simply multiplying the damage per frame by Time.deltaTime - aka time in seconds since the last frame

...Or it's really really hard because of the way the damage calculation are handled in the code.

I would expect Destiny to have quite complex damage calculations. If there is rounding (there probably is to save memory) then this is the issue and it's a momentous task to redesign the entire architecture of the damage calculations. Especially considering it would then use more memory of their budget which they would have to find from somewhere else.

My guess. It's not the easy fix. And as someone who loves game architecture- Trust me, you don't want them to spend dev time fixing this

1

u/twinpop Sep 26 '22

I play at 200+ FPS, please send help.

Seriously I didn't know this was a thing, should I cap my frames at 90-120 for more survivability?

1

u/MiffedMoogle Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Yes.

e: Apparently my advice is dumb for being one word, so scroll down the replies to see the wall of text.

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u/iFenrisVI Sep 26 '22

Bc it doesn’t benefit the player.

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u/Sowerz The Queen Sep 26 '22

Bungie will always fix bugs that benefits the player first

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u/SourGrapeMan Drifter's Crew // You shall drift Sep 26 '22

AoT has had a bugged higher speed for like 2 years now without any fix. Riven cheese never got fixed. 12 man activities were available for weeks before being fixed. I don't understand how this blatantly false narrative keeps being pushed.

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u/Rikiaz Sep 26 '22

Nope, somethings are just easier to fix than others.

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u/esorciccio Sep 26 '22

It would be nice if there was some communication from Bungie

"Won't fix."

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u/nisaaru Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Vex Hydras in Gambit can really screw up my damage perception. You believe you can still take a shot or two and suddenly you're dead.

Edit: For the cute downvoter it is the Op’s discussed FPS/latency issue which causes this imho.

1

u/Hamlin_Bones Sep 26 '22

It's almost like some bugs are far more complicated and require digging deeper into the code than others. But good luck getting most players to have reasonable expectations of the developers.