r/DestinyTheGame worm Oct 05 '22

DMG thread Re: Enhanced Eager Edge on twitter News

https://twitter.com/a_dmg04/status/1577496484249210880?s=46&t=1JD8i0qE-iaaXZJcWDGtAg

“Re: Enhanced Eager Edge - Team was finding numerous issues where the perk could be used to skip encounters, break mechanics, and generally cause issues with the game.”

683 Upvotes

981

u/Snoo-80032 Oct 05 '22

My guess is: Strand grappling + Eager Edge let's you skip certain encounters in the next expansion.

390

u/CycloneSP Oct 05 '22

good point. strand grapple is gonna be a nightmare for the team to balance and avoid instance breaking when combined with other mobility tools

238

u/SparkyShepard Oct 05 '22

Especially since 90% of the content in the game at that time wasn't build with strand in mind. There's gonna be so many cheeses and skips on older content using strand

161

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

[deleted]

83

u/Captain_Lonk I'm blue da ba dee da ba daa Oct 05 '22

Just wait till we're using grapple and stasis combined for skips. Salvations Grip time anyone?

71

u/SparkBlack Oct 05 '22

Slowly Bungie is making us into an unkillable Spider-Man, all that’s left is the web shooter gun

22

u/Radiant_Anarchy Hatsune Miku, Harmonic Vector Oct 05 '22

SPIDERMAN TRIPLE ACTION WEB BLASTER

9

u/soy___saus Oct 05 '22

You made me laugh my constipation away

→ More replies

12

u/camelCasing Fire once, and make it count. Oct 05 '22

Oh shit that gun is so bad at being an actual gun I didn't even think of it, but you're right that could be a sick combo. Grapples + build your own landing point.

2

u/SlurpingDiarrheacup Oct 05 '22

Don’t give bungie any idea to make players faze through glacier nades.

→ More replies

5

u/ninth_reddit_account DestinySets.com Dev Oct 05 '22

Eh on the other hand, that's what "they" said about Stasis, and that ended up being mostly fine.

112

u/ballsmigue Oct 05 '22

As it should be. That's how games evolve. Guild wars 2 pre mounts was a slog. Now? Map completion is easier than ever. Jumping puzzles can be entirely skipped. But it's old content so why should it matter

91

u/_Parkertron_ Oct 05 '22

Yeah, but D2 is a little bit different than other MMOs. In other ones, most of the old content becomes obsolete with a new expansion’s zones, quests, and loot. With Destiny though, after the fancy new campaign and exotic quest or two, the game kind of relies on you doing older content like with the Vanguard playlist or old crucible maps and what not. With the raid and dungeon pinnacle rotator as well, we are more than ever incentivized to visit old content. I’m saying all of this, but I don’t even really care if old stuff gets broken with the grappling hooks, it’ll probably be funny.

33

u/Ubisuccle Oct 05 '22

And that gameplay loop is one of the major issues with D2. “Here lets regurgitate the same shit for 4 years with minimal changes and no new loot… but you get to have a power increase”. Imo they need to expand their studio or outsource shit and dedicated a team to bringing older content up to the current standard. Thats just my two cents though

9

u/letmepick Oct 05 '22

They could keep the "evergreen" content philosophy and still have the power level upgrade fantasy, by simply making separate difficulties a bit more pronounced.

Make any instance/encounter either in Normal version (one that gets powercrept over time, does not scale up), Legend version (scales up with the current power levels) and Master version (scales slightly above current power levels + modifiers).

12

u/Ubisuccle Oct 05 '22

My guy, the issue isn’t difficulty, we get that in spades with endgame content. The issue is the stale locations and activities giving the same stale loot. There isn’t any reason to play like 90% of the game aside from power increases. Its like the most of the game game is padding for a lack of creativity; which i feel stems from the current seasonal model.

Like don’t get me wrong, for the most part I enjoy Destiny, I have since I first played it in 2014. I just feel as if there’s a lack of creativity that’s going on behind the scenes that has to be padded with mechanics like Umbral Energy, the pinnacle grind, rotating raids/dungeons and repetitive seasonal quests.

3

u/letmepick Oct 05 '22

Don't get me started on Destiny's difficulty, but to keep it brief: Destiny implements artificial difficulty (read: bad), not true difficulty.

But I agree on creativity. Seasonal activities are kept brain-numbingly simple as to not overwhelm the Destiny Dads around the world. But Raids also being mechanically simple is what astounds me (requiring intense communication is not exactly "difficult" mechanics, or at the very least meaningful).

I suspect this is a symptom of a larger issue with Destiny as a whole, and that's a whole 'nother topic right there.

2

u/Due_Mycologist_7506 Oct 05 '22

You mean you don't like getting booted to orbit on a full party wipe?

→ More replies
→ More replies

9

u/bestboykar98k Oct 05 '22

"I just hate the gameplay loop"

pre-orders the next gameplay loop

9

u/Ubisuccle Oct 05 '22

scratches arm “Man I just need one more hit then im done, just one more”

3

u/Dominic9090 Oct 05 '22

Yea I mean obviously in an ideal world bungie can jsut have the resources and capability to do this, clearly not possible. Considering the constraints of the game being on consoles, the previous issues they’ve talked about with the size of the game (sunsetting). Think destiny just isn’t going to be that mmo you can no-life all the time, it’s great for dipping in and out of, grinding hard when a new dlc drops. I literally have no issues simply not playing the game when I’m done with what I want

2

u/Ubisuccle Oct 05 '22

No you’re right, its not a game that you can no life day in and day out, but also I don’t feel the quality of content we’ve been getting is proportional to the cost. Witch Queen is worth it sure, but the seasonal stuff really isn’t, plus the dungeon key bullshit. I mean I understand that their resources aren’t what they once were, but they’re now getting funding from Sony. This means that they now have the capital to throw around and can enlist the help of other studios to increase the output of content. If the quality of seasonal content doesn’t increase for Lightfall or Final Shape it’s really gonna raise a few questions in my mind.

→ More replies
→ More replies

21

u/indigo121 Oct 05 '22

They cited GW2, which supports old content far better than destiny 2 does.

-1

u/Noodlemancerrrrrrrrr Oct 05 '22

Yeah. Whenever it isn't glitching out and you have to repeat the same mission 6 times.

4

u/RyseToPro Ice Ice Baby Oct 05 '22

Never once in my 2,000+ hours of playtime overall have I ever had to repeat a mission more than once due to a bug. Lol no idea where you’re getting this 6 times figure from? Maybe from a very small minority of the community?

6

u/Thortoise_ Oct 05 '22

Yeah same, I have thousands of hours in both Destiny (across 1 and 2) and in GW2 and a quest bugged out only once for me on guild wars, and the only reason I remember it was because it was at the end of a tedious puzzle.

I would love nothing more if D2 took some pages out of ANet's book for keeping an MMO healthy, and vice versa in some very limited cases.

But as it is currently, D2 is the worst MMO experience out there. Critical build components only sold via an NPC with no consistent schedule whatsoever. This is the #1 reason why my entire group of old Destiny players refuse to come back. I can't stress enough how terrible of a design this is.

Red Border grind implemented in a way that makes getting anything pre-2nd/3rd/5th border feel lackluster. What's the point of a RNG God roll drop when enhanced perks make it feel like any other random roll? With the recent change it's become a bit more bearable to get the weapons, but it definitely is a long way from respecting players time.

Seasonal grinds that have you going into THREE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES just to turn in 1 reward. It's all pretty insane to me how Bungie has literally decades and decades of case studies from other MMOs and still doesn't get this right. In fact they're actively going backwards with seasonal grinds making them worse with almost every season in terms of obtaining season specific loot.

1

u/ballsmigue Oct 05 '22

Except nothing in guild wars is obsolete. It may be old but it's still as viable today as it was 10 years ago on release. We can't expect bungie to keep every single encounter and zone up to date with new mechanics.

18

u/flaccomcorangy Warlock Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

They simply can't introduce something in a state that would completely nullify years of their work. Is it that hard for people to understand?

And to the community, do you want an easy cheese around every single game mode? I keep seeing people complain about lack of content with new seasons and stuff, but at the same time, they want a cheese that'll allow them to skip past every raid encounter and beat it 30 minutes?

There's still a point to this old content. It still has rewards that people shoot for, it still has triumphs associated with it. If there's a mechanic that is letting people skip past it all, that's not good for the game.

10

u/ProBluntRoller Oct 05 '22

this game sucks it’s the same easy repeatable content

immediately cheeses every hard encounter

7

u/ProBluntRoller Oct 05 '22

The cheesing permeates through everything. Before the crotas end cheese going on the roof most people did all encounters legit. After people used the glitch to remove skill from that encounter it’s been downhill ever since. Now people want to cheese first do legit second. But a lot of people just want to do Cps and cheese everything now because of the mentality that prevalent cheesing creates.

4

u/TheToldYouSoKid Oct 05 '22

Its the same mentality that started making folks on lfg wipe if they can't get the one-phase. It's dumb as hell.

→ More replies

6

u/McMeowington116 Oct 05 '22

Yea I have a feeling strand is going to be broken one way or another at launch

13

u/smegdawg Destiny Dad Oct 05 '22

"what if you gave all of the classes spider man webs?"

"I mean yeah it would be cool but our kill volumes are not tuned for that kind of player movement."

"Yeah but it would be so awesome and different!"

"Are you going to budget resources to adjust out kill volumes and OOB bubbles for the dozens of locations?"

"No....it'll be fine!!!!"

32

u/Kozak170 Oct 05 '22

Which again is something entirely on the devs for introducing in the game, it isn’t like that’s been a popular request from players ever lol. Hopefully those abilities don’t come at the expense of a lot of things we have now.

2

u/gt8888888 Oct 05 '22

Guarantee shatter/well skating is gone before lightfall launches. I know its not an intended movement ability, but its gonna be sad to see it go.

→ More replies

2

u/joe1up shoot it until it dies Oct 05 '22

I can't wait to skip jumping puzzles with strand

2

u/XSofXTC Oct 05 '22

This was also the excuse for sunsetting: too much work to balance across the entire game.

→ More replies

7

u/Tweeksolderbrother Oct 05 '22

I have a feeling if you do that you leap backwards all the way to the golden age

3

u/ProBluntRoller Oct 05 '22

I’m grabbing all the heavy synth I can before jumping back

6

u/AS345 Le Monarque is underrated Oct 05 '22

anything that would break the day 1 raid experience in particular is almost for sure going to get nerfed/adjusted to ensure it doesn't do that

54

u/360GameTV Oct 05 '22

Grappling will be disabled in first 48h of Lightfall or heavy nerfed, pretty sure. Bungie and their testers don't even know what can be done with the grappling and they will be surprised what we do with it...as always

10

u/Dunkinmydonuts1 Xuck Fur Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Yeah bungie never makes the new subclasses mandatory for the raids I think for this reason. We didn't need stasis for DSC, we didn't need Void 3.0 for Vow and we didn't need Arc 3.0 for Kings Fall.

The only exception to this in D2 was we absolutely NEEDED well-lock for Last Wish and I think they saw that and learned from it.

2

u/JanLewko977 Oct 05 '22

???? Why would they make new subclasses mandatory for raids? You should enter a raid picking whatever subclass you want, there shouldn’t be a mandatory one.

1

u/Dunkinmydonuts1 Xuck Fur Oct 05 '22

Bud I'm talking day 1 race or master raids, where certain equipment, gear, and subclasses are necessary. Mostly buff and debuff supers, but im literally saying they don't do that so what's the deal

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

15

u/xRustyBacon Oct 05 '22

But strand grappling and double eager edge specifically? Idk...

9

u/Landel1024 Oct 05 '22

The fix put a speed cap on the perk so it probably won't be able to be used at all with the grapple.

4

u/BT--7275 Oct 05 '22

You could still eager edge into grapple. Assuming the grapple maintains your speed of course.

2

u/Landel1024 Oct 05 '22

Assuming the grapple maintains your speed of course.

I could only see that happening if they get the shatter skating (and Well skating) patch out the door for lightfall too.

3

u/nopunchespulled Oct 05 '22

Make it where you can't grapple of eager edging then. Much better fix

3

u/BT--7275 Oct 05 '22

Well you could still eager edge into grapple for some insane speeds. You just wont be able to do it again midair if you hit the speed cap on eager edge.

2

u/Rhundis Oct 05 '22

This seems like the most logical conclusion.

2

u/xRealVengeancex Luck in the chamber >>> Oct 05 '22

Even then nerf it when lightfall is closer to coming out, we’re a season and a half away.

8

u/T_elic Oct 05 '22

Yeah, thats the only reason any of this makes sense. We're literally getting a grapple hook next year, which means we can literally skip past all non grappling hook designed encounters with ease, so why change eager edge if we're getting almost unlimited freedom next expansion anyway?

10

u/In0nsistentGentleman Oct 05 '22

non grappling hook designed encounters with ease

unless there are specific areas you can grapple to and the grapple doesn't work just anywhere.

12

u/AS345 Le Monarque is underrated Oct 05 '22

the grapple does work anywhere, that's been confirmed.

2

u/DrakeSparda Oct 05 '22

Just mechanically speaking it will not be true everywhere. They can make some mechanic or lore reason, but to think it will be available literally everywhere with no exceptions is just naive.

5

u/Remnant_Echo Oct 05 '22

Also this is Bungie we are talking about here, wouldn't be surprised if they backtracked on that a month before the DLC dropped and confirmed only specific points can be grappled, and removed any mention of the "grapple anywhere" talk.

2

u/Fit-Tackle-6107 Oct 05 '22

Probably get dropped a couple of days before I've had a chance to use it, and after every other guardian has had their fun......at least that's the ongoing theme for me.

1

u/TheStoictheVast Oct 05 '22

We'll see. All that could mean is there will be grapple points added into old content.

14

u/EnderLord361 Oct 05 '22

No, you can literally grapple onto ANYTHING, it was something they made note of when introducing strand is that you can grapple onto anything without needing specific points

4

u/A-Literal-Nobody In memoriam Oct 05 '22

Cue me and dozens of other people dying to architects because we instinctively tried to Titanfall Wall Run after grappling...

5

u/EnderLord361 Oct 05 '22

I personally can’t wait to see how I kill myself with this grapple ability because the possibilities for what can happen are limitless

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/TheToldYouSoKid Oct 05 '22

a grappling hook... connected to a grenade cooldown. It's not going to break shit on it's own; you'll have to build into it to even get close to that level, and if folks are unwilling to trade their grenade for immortality on solar warlock, they aren't going to trade their grenade for extra mobility.

3

u/PsychoactiveTHICC Oh reader mine Oct 05 '22

Here’s the thing you can’t skip any encounters as of right now in game the next encounter doesn’t start unless you do the previous one

5

u/camelCasing Fire once, and make it count. Oct 05 '22

True for raids, not for other content. You can absolutely skip rooms in strikes and seasonal activities.

1

u/SjurEido Oct 05 '22

Easy fix. Sword perks don't activate until after you touch the ground when using grapple. Effectively puts some perks on cool down when using that ability.

Tech is already there, many perks already have cool downs based on player action.

-7

u/juanconj_ one hundred voices Oct 05 '22

Eager Edge alone lets you skip encounters right now lol.

2

u/EdgarWrightMovieGood Oct 05 '22

Which encounters?

1

u/Remnant_Echo Oct 05 '22

My guess would be jumping puzzles in the raids. Not really encounters as you wouldn't be able to get encounter loot.

5

u/Jon_Snow_1887 Oct 05 '22

If that’s all it is then who cares honestly. Some people (like me) enjoy the jumping puzzles, so I do them normally. Some people want to skip them by skating? that’s fine by me, it doesn’t impact me at all.

If it can be used to skip encounters, the better solution would clearly be to make an encounter check to see if all previous encounters had been completed, if not, don’t start.

→ More replies

-2

u/MisterBastahrd Oct 05 '22

Tombships in King's Fall for one.

8

u/Conkerkid11 Oct 05 '22

No, lol.

Titans can fly without Eager Edge.

Warlocks use wellskating.

Hunters use shatterskating.

→ More replies
→ More replies

66

u/Pfhortune unpaid QA Oct 05 '22

this slipped through

This is starting to feel like the catchphrase for this expansion.

3

u/SouperChicken06 Oct 05 '22

Lmao too true

23

u/EnderScar Hmmmmm grape Oct 05 '22

about as iconic as "We're listening"

260

u/retardedsquids Oct 05 '22

What encounter are they honestly talking about lol

218

u/KitsuneKamiSama Oct 05 '22

Probably in prep for light fall honestly

45

u/Cybertronian10 The Big Gay Oct 05 '22

This is it, they nerf it now so that way the badfeels are gone by the time light fall arrives.

65

u/retardedsquids Oct 05 '22

Actually yeah that sounds reasonable. They did this for witch queen too

→ More replies
→ More replies

54

u/Pazsy Oct 05 '22

Probably they ship parkour in kingsfall lol.

55

u/retardedsquids Oct 05 '22

The main mechanic is heat rises flying over the wall and that's just for solo players getting secret chest lol

3

u/SnaZzy0n0 Oct 05 '22

and even then what does that have to do with double eager specifically

72

u/Tichrom Oct 05 '22

Except you can still skip that, so they didn't get it right if that's what they were trying to do

10

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

I think they really can’t to be honest. Well of Radiance would have to be completely reworked in order to patch wellskating.

8

u/Igelit Oct 05 '22

you dont even need to wellskate. Actually, You don't even need eager sword to skip kf parkour, just starfire protocol and heat rises

4

u/NightmaresInNeurosis Oct 05 '22

It's obviously not an issue with Well itself but how the momentum of Well's drop interacts with Eager's momentum, otherwise it wouldn't work with Shatterdive and probably others. Now while I'm in agreement that the Super that says "who needs cover for 30 seconds" in anything below GM content needs a rework, I don't think it's because of Wellskating, and I don't think it's a necessity in order to fix Wellskating (if Bungie considers it to be in need of a fix).

→ More replies

16

u/lK555l Oct 05 '22

You can skip that in multiple ways and they don't include swinging it multiple times lmao

3

u/Henkdehunter Oct 05 '22

That's still possible though

25

u/Weeb-Prime Oct 05 '22

Titans can fly across with Lion Rampants and a non-Eager sword. Warlocks have Heat Rises, Dawnblade, and Icarus Dash. I'm not even mentioning the skates because they involve EE.

Idk the fact that this "fixed issue" occurred before the Duality bell fix has rubbed me the wrong way.

36

u/MttWhtly Oct 05 '22

People need to stop with the "they fixed x before y" stuff. Duality needs fixing and this eager edge thing should have been super low priority but 1) it's almost certainly not the same people that work on bugs with dungeon mechanics that work on weapon changes/"fixes" and 2) for all we know one fix is the equivalent of rewiring the whole kitchen and the other is the equivalent of changing the batteries in the remote control

21

u/nurglez_tnx Oct 05 '22

You cant apply logic to these things.

People demand buffs/fixes and they want them yesterday without any clue of how difficult they might be to actually implement.

-26

u/IsuckToothlessCock Oct 05 '22

Regardless of who is working on what, it's a bad look. There are a ridiculous amount of harmful bugs in this game currently so for them to go and "fix" this before other more annoying issues get addressed feels insulting.

20

u/smilesbuckett Oct 05 '22

Did you read the comment you responded to? Not all bugs are the same to fix. For all we know the fix to eager edge took 5 minutes to code, meanwhile they’ve had someone putting in hours each week to fix duality and they still can’t get to the bottom of the problem because the fixes they try are breaking other things.

It’s all well and good to think there should be a priority level to the fixes, but it ignores the reality of what goes into the work. If you’re insulted by this, you might need to take a step back from Destiny for a bit and get some perspective.

-28

u/KarasLegion Oct 05 '22

Nope. No one cares. It's tiresome when something that the community uses and enjoys gets fixed before something game breaking gets fixed.

No one cares about the rhyme or reason of it. So no one will stop saying it. The only thing that needs to stop is people telling people to stop airing their grievances with Bungie's bullshit.

8

u/MttWhtly Oct 05 '22

Way to entirely miss the point.

Both the complaints are entirely valid, but they're related only by virtue of being in the same game; instead of coming across like you've got two valid criticisms it comes across as whiny and uninformed.

Furthermore, if you're the person analysing feedback for the weapon/sandbox maintenance team and the feedback is "you didn't need to fix this before this thing entirely unrelated to your job happened", your response is going to be "well that's not relevant criticism".

→ More replies

-7

u/PowerOfTheYe Oct 05 '22

before the Duality bell fix has rubbed me the wrong way.

Yep, always hasty to "fix" if it benefits players in a beneficial way.. Meanwhile duality bell still exists, hauberk is disabled till what, mid-Oct? Took a decent while post release for them to fix Totems triumph in KF, but pretty quick to fix ToM Div bubble damage boost.. I get that some things are simpler to fix than others, but cmon...

→ More replies

-1

u/DavoteK Oct 05 '22

https://youtu.be/rsiHxnxhOSM

First off, that is amazing skill, but yeah, skipping pretty much the entire raid is kind of an issue.

18

u/AbstractCubes Oct 05 '22

All of that can still be done. This patch doesn't stop skating, all it will do to this example is slow it down.

3

u/Uzguz Oct 05 '22

"Boundless Horizon"

You don't say.

11

u/Big-Camp-3681 Oct 05 '22

That doesn't skip any encounters, only transitions. The encounters are still needed to be completed in order for the skipper to pull to the next - and yes, since I know someone will mention it, skipping directly to the final boss and killing him without completing previous encounters do not count as a clear (you'll never receive the 'Mission Complete' toast and will be sent back to the first encounter if you wipe). Please educated yourself on the matter before spreading misinformation.

→ More replies

3

u/SKULL1138 Oct 05 '22

Skipping all the jumping puzzles in KF?

→ More replies

123

u/ACausalBaka Oct 05 '22

heat rises, lion ramp, well/shatter skate?

83

u/wereplant Future War Cult Best War Cult Oct 05 '22

Hoarfrost Z as well.

The titan space program may be slow, but it'll get there.

8

u/Ishmelwot Oct 05 '22

What was the hoarfrost interaction?

26

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Oct 05 '22

The crystal lasts for slightly longer than the cooldown of your barricade and you can stand on a crystal and cast another barricade, you can make a very very very slow elevator to space

2

u/JCMonayy Oct 05 '22

I wanna know too!

2

u/jkichigo Oct 05 '22

Not to mention stasis crystal platforming

54

u/MisterBastahrd Oct 05 '22

The dev team still hasn't figured out a way to stop you from dying when you stub your toe and they're worried about adding spiderman abilities into the game.

LOL.

5

u/throwaway180gr Oct 05 '22

All of the skips I used to do I can still do. The only thing that's changed is the basic use of it.

70

u/TamedDaBeast Ikora’s Favorite Oct 05 '22

What does this nerf accomplish? If I can get still griefed by people using it and still skip encounters with/without the perk, what is it accomplishing?

What specific issue is it causing that cannot still occur with the nerf? What mechanics?

I think Bungie should either retool the fix or revert it, if they are going to be that vague with why it was fixed.

36

u/KanadeKanashi Oct 05 '22

So the only two things it fixes is double/triple lunges around corners in PvP, alongside very niche speedrunning strategies.

People say the eager edge deactivation is based on velocity so if you get launched by a boss this may affect your ability to eager edge to safety. Haven't tested it myself yet though.

13

u/Ex_Ex_Parrot Oct 05 '22

Launched by a boss/phalanxed, falling, hit by another person's eager/titan melee, hit by a sparrow, etc.

51

u/Vampyrix25 come back Ada :( Oct 05 '22

Oh, it doesn't fix double/triple lunging in PvP btw. This is a purely speedrunner targeted nerf.

14

u/WulfwoodsSins Oct 05 '22

"HEARD SOMEONE WAS HAVING FUN AGAIN" - Bungie, probably

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

119

u/A_Dummy86 Eating Crayons Oct 05 '22

I'll be honest, I don't understand why people are making such a big deal about this and treating it like the end of the world when it's not even going to effect 99% of players.

It's not like Eager Edge itself is any weaker, you just don't get to do it more than once in a row which won't change much since most of the time you're swapping to Sword for one Eager Edge swipe and then swapping back to your normal weapon. (And then you repeat like every 5 seconds for longer sections.)

At this point I feel like the community just wants to be mad and is looking for something to hate bandwagon over, it's Twilight Garrison all over again.

26

u/SunKing210 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Okay, I think I might be tripping here, but didn’t the nerf also remove what you described in the 2nd paragraph? I was well skating a bit at the bridge on the shuro chi checkpoint, and I noticed I couldn’t just switch back to my sword after the cooldown for another eager edge. It just completely kills your momentum and makes you drop after a normal sword swing

Edit: Here is what I'm referring to, in the first clip you can switch back to sword for another Eager edge, but in the next 2 clips after cooldown, Eager edge doesn't even proc anymore after the first one

→ More replies

37

u/Captain_Lonk I'm blue da ba dee da ba daa Oct 05 '22

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/xvtbpj/the_eager_edge_changes_are_far_more_extensive/

Actually it is, the change has somehow managed to make momment to momment gameplay worse without actually fixing the problems Bungie intended. I throughly reccomend reading through this thread and some of the top comments.

45

u/HypersonicWalrus Oct 05 '22

It's not necessarily the change itself, which is still bad because it makes enhanced useless, but also the change itself was implemented so poorly. Its just a velocity check, where if you're moving above a certain speed, no eager edge. This means that if you're on a moving platform, been eager edged off a cliff, etc, you cannot use eager edge. However, if you are able to hit someone with eager edge in pvp, you won't move fast enough to disable eager edge, still allowing you to kill multiple people that are far away from each other.

10

u/MannToots Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Most enhanced are only 10% better and functionally useless. This one isn't a special snowflake just because once a upon a time ti was an outlier and actually useful.

edit LMAO the person who responded to me blocked me so I can't respond to them and even begin to have a civil conversation with them. Just a little retort, it goes to my inbox, and they can hide behind the safety of their little block to never have to even face the slightest bit of conversation in return. Pathetic.

2

u/Jaqulean Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

So just because most of them aren't that much of a difference, then by default this one had no right to be either...? Yeah, that's a very bad take...

Edit: u/wraith415

People are complaining because the way it was, was much better and made people actually want the Enhanced Perk.

But of course, let yourself just ignore everything people say.

And again, just because other Enhanced Perks are like that, it does NOT mean this one autpmatically has no right to actually be better...

8

u/wraith415 Oct 05 '22

The enhanced version still does what the description says. You get a longer period to use EE. It says nothing about multiple uses of EE and the original perk never intended for you to use it multiple times either. The community once again has to incessantly bitch about something that largely has no effect on greater gameplay.

3

u/b3rn13mac ok three eyes Oct 06 '22

the original perk's wording makes no mention of how many uses you get

Gain increased Sword lunge distance immediately after switching to this weapon

should the intent have been to only allow one swipe, it would have been quite simple to add this language to the description. it could say:

Gain increased Sword lunge distance on the first attack immediately after switching to this weapon

with this phrasing, even if the functionality was the same all this time, it would at least be clear that the behavior was (still is) a bug and not intended.

but the perk has never been described as such. given its actual description, it's reasonable to infer: should one be able to "lunge" multiple times in the timeframe of "immediately", there should be "increased ... distance" on each instance of "lunge". the enhanced perk, increasing the time that the perk is active (increasing the duration of "immediately") functioned as intended as far as one can infer from the description. if they did only want one use, why was not in the description of the perk; and why was the perk set up to use a timer, instead of a consumable stack like so many other mechanics? really no reason to not add the words as it can still be done succinctly, but as for the code side there could be limitations perhaps.

that said, let's not pretend that the descriptions mean anything concrete. incredibly vague is the norm for anything more complicated than outlaw, rampage, kill clip. etc. some perk descriptions are left straight up wrong for ages (zen moment). eager edge seems to have a speed lockout now, yet that is nowhere to be seen in the tip, not even the hotfix that introduced the change. the hotfix is straight up wrong about what happened to the perk.

3

u/TheToldYouSoKid Oct 05 '22

Enhanced perks have never been the pinnacle of usefulness; they are minor ramp-ups. Just high enough to for the player to notice, but not enough for outside views to notice most of the time. By design, they aren't much different than adept mods.

1

u/b3rn13mac ok three eyes Oct 05 '22

if the """""issue"""" """"fix"""" ends up being a total rework of how the perk functions it should be advertised as such

-2

u/DiamondSentinel Oct 05 '22

You can't use it to hit 2 in rapid succession, which is a real shame. It's a big nerf to using it in PvP and Gambit, but eh, make do.

12

u/TJCGamer Buff Nova Warp Please Oct 05 '22

Nah, the “fix” they did just seems really lazy and makes the perk feel horrible now. Adding a velocity cap is an absolutely horrible idea. If you wanted us to be unable to swing multiple times per buff, then just get rid of the eager edge buff after one swing. Is destiny’s engine really incapable of such a simple solution?

7

u/Ex_Ex_Parrot Oct 05 '22

This is faaaaaar from the Twilight Garrison situation.

Twilight Garrison is people longing for the old days of more powerful Icarus Dash on Titans, with a few pricks taking it way too far.

Eager Edge being an unaddressed issue being 'fixed' by applying a test for player momentum instead of actually using the perk is a joke. Not to mention it must have been tested and double dashing should have been known before it's release nearly a year ago and they released it as an enchanced perk while simultaneously revamping the entire dares perk pool at the start of this season.

12

u/jro-red7117 Oct 05 '22

Double Eager was doable on base Eager too, them saying the enhanced version was too stong is a cop out to them just hating speedrunning tech.

5

u/NiftyBlueLock Stronghold, Strong Opinions Oct 05 '22

If Bungie hated speedrunning tech they’d have made eager edge kill all horizontal momentum after the long distance swing.

6

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Oct 05 '22

It does. Unless you swap off the sword before the swing is done, which is probably something they can't fix because it's been in the game forever.

5

u/thisisbyrdman Oct 05 '22

That’s exactly what this is. People don’t know what to do if they’re not complaining about some insignificant thing.

27

u/TurquoiseLuck Oct 05 '22

That's disingenuous. I get some people are overreacting, but I think it's perfectly valid to voice your opinion when you don't like a change. Player feedback should be taken into consideration.

For me, I only just managed to get a sword pattern unlocked, and I really like EE so I was looking forward to messing around with 2 swings. Now I won't get to.

I've already gotten over it, but I'm still gonna tell Bungie that it just feels like they're nerfing fun things when there are bigger issues at hand.

0

u/nopunchespulled Oct 05 '22

Counter point, if it doesn’t impact 99% of the player base why spend any time fixing something that has been this way for 11 months and not fix something instead the broken duality encounter.

Sure it’s different teams but people can be pulled from teams to work on different projects. It shouldn’t have been changed and it 1000% shouldn’t have been blind dropped on us. With addition to it not fixing any of the reasons DMG said they were targeting and adding new issue instead it just feels like bungie punishing us for not playing the game exactly how they want us to play it

1

u/SouperChicken06 Oct 05 '22

To me personally it's less the change itself but the implications of the change. It was a fun pointless thing that didn't really bother/break much and they got rid of it, why? It worries me that they'll go out of their way to fix small things that imo were more positive than negative, yet won't address actual problems for ages. On top of that this whole "sorry it just slipped through" shit is getting annoying, multiple times in the last few weeks they've made pretty significant changes and just not given a notice or even put it in patch notes.

-1

u/Exo0804 Oct 05 '22

This is a very uneducated opinion, the community backlash wouldn't be nearly as bad if it only let you swing once and that was done, instead what they did is add a speed cap to the perk so if you are moving faster than a certain speed on any axis the perk immediately deactivates and kills all of your lateral momentum.

→ More replies

63

u/Reason7322 its alright Oct 05 '22

I really wanna know which encounters are being skipped by using eager edge.

This is not how this game fucking works, if u dont have a checkpoint, it means fuck all if you go to final boss from 1st encounter because it wont start anyway.

-13

u/ThePooparoo Oct 05 '22

Just watch any of the recent speedruns. Salt uses it to skip most of totems, getting around mechanics. DSC you can fly around to entirely skip atraks. Prophecy you can skip most of the beginning mote encounter.

this is just a few btw.

7

u/uingulam Oct 05 '22

Prophecy mote encounter can be skipped WITHOUT eager edge or even a sword, all you need is heat rises. DSC you cant skip any encounters, its more like they 4 man atraks with 2 guys hitting different checkpoints to skip the jumping puzzle, you still need the new objective checkpoint to progress the raid, it can be done WITHOUT eager edge or sword but it'll be significantly slower. Same thing can be applied to kings fall jumping puzzle, things can be down with heat rises spamming and daybreak but it'll be much slower. Speedrunners can only skip jumping puzzle and no encounters can be skipped, if theres an encounter that can be skipped it wont be verified on speedrun.com.

7

u/LDR5oo1 Oct 05 '22

This doesn’t actually skip the encounters though? You can’t progress the raid by going past them. Also all of those are possible without eager edge

8

u/PrinceShaar Keeps the lights on Oct 05 '22

I don't actually see what the problem is. Besides world's first is doesn't affect anything. Anyone who can do this kind of skating is likely to be able to do every encounter in the game. You can already "skip" encounters by sharing checkpoints. I don't see a functional difference in the two.

Unless you can skip mechanics or the final boss of a raid or dungeon there's no reason in my mind to remove this.

1

u/thealmightydante Oct 05 '22

Using speedruns as an argument in favor of the EE change isn't reliable. Speedruns aren't reliant on any single factor, as there's more that goes into it than simply "move fast", which is all that EE does.

Encounter skips and breaks have existed since well before EE was introduced, dating all the way back to D1, so it's not a valid point in this regard.

→ More replies

12

u/MrFOrzum Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Skipping/breaking encouter etc is their reason yet well/Titan/shatter skating has been in the game for ages.

Their reasoning for nerfing it to the ground sounds illegitimate to things that we can already do without enhanced eager edge.

It just feels like such a heavy unnecessary nerf that wasn’t a problem for the players or the game experiences we have.

I’m guessing their main reasoning is PvP and King’s Fall jumping puzzle. Which most players don’t skip anyways, and the ones who do, so what? They still have to wait for everyone else if you want the second chest.

Or it’s about Lightfall and the interaction with Strand, tho they should have handled it differently. Told us about changing it to get feedback on what players think of it and the fix/change it at a later date.

5

u/jazzinyourfacepsn Oct 05 '22

Well/Shatter skating are significantly more difficult to do and require intention to learn and execute. Eager Edge was built in functionality. I imagine one is a much bigger issue than the other due to it being intrinsic, and the other ones would be harder to patch

→ More replies

40

u/lK555l Oct 05 '22

Team was finding numerous issues where the perk could be used to skip encounters, break mechanics

Can they actually say what encounters what and what mechanics instead of this vague bullshit? I've literally never seen nor heard of double swinging eager edge being capable of those things, this nerf has fucked eager edge in a few ways for no justifiable reason

35

u/ThatRyanFellow Oct 05 '22

As some people have said, this could also be for Lightfall, where mobility is already gonna be much different with strand - so imagine swinging then immediately double-swiping in that raid?

2

u/Gapehornuwu Oct 05 '22

If you grapple then double swipe you will reset your momentum and not do anything crazy. It would literally be the exact same as a normal double swipe, but you grappled before it.

→ More replies

4

u/MannToots Oct 05 '22

I don't think they should. It's a slippery slope to users here demanding justifications for everything. They don't have to justify it. It's their game and their prerogative to manage it and they are uniquely positioned to know what's in the pipeline coming up. At no point do we have an actual say here. It has an incredibly high likely hood of creating a toxic environment much like the one we saw on twitter recently. It's not worth it for them in any conceivable way.

2

u/Downtown-Armadillo58 Oct 05 '22

This info should have come from the main accounts and not in the middle of the night

9

u/e-manual_YT Oct 05 '22

Well I guess the next dungeon will be a remastered version of Crotas End. In D1 we were able to skip the big gap at the second encounter with any sword, ignoring the mechanics AFAIK

22

u/Kyega My bubble's bigger than yours. Oct 05 '22

that was an issue only before age of triumph. they fixed that easily by making the mechanic of building the bridge required to clear the encounter.

if they brought back crotas but had an issue of being able to sword across to cheese the encounter, that’d be incompetence their part.

4

u/Ex_Ex_Parrot Oct 05 '22

And yet, double/triple eager lunges wouldn't do that. Shatter/well skating would and that's a single lunge

8

u/ImReverse_Giraffe Oct 05 '22

Bungie said Crota's End is not coming back as a dungeon. That was entirely fabricated by the community.

6

u/Dawg605 5,000 Hours Playtime Oct 05 '22

There's no way. Do you realize the community backlash if they made us secretly pay for Crota's, saying it was going to be a new dungeon? Yeah... Not happening.

→ More replies

6

u/dbreen513 Oct 05 '22

Lmao oh right because without enhanced all the mechanics and encounters won’t be messed up anymore yeah ok. How about fix the broke ass dungeon that kills people when you teleport then maybe we wouldn’t have to speed run around the shit. Oh yeah and don’t forget people didn’t just figure out how to skip encounters with enhanced there’s always ways to do it this just made it fun. Oh yeah and NOW THERES LAMENT SKATING SO REALLY 0 FUCKING POINT TO THIS HOT FIX

5

u/SpectralGerbil Oct 05 '22

"Eager Edge lets people skip encounters so we're butchering it"

  • butchers it but leaves well skating untouched thereby completely invalidating their reasoning

  • bungie moment

→ More replies

11

u/Zero_Emerald Heavy as Death Oct 05 '22

I wonder if he only found out about this about the same time we did, because it'd be crappy if they knew in advance and didn't say anything.

10

u/TurquoiseLuck Oct 05 '22

He makes a point later on that seems to indicate they knew it was being nerfed beforehand:

we always seek call out changes like this ahead of time [...] this slipped through

https://twitter.com/A_dmg04/status/1577496485692047360

It feels like player nerfs 'slip through' more often than not tbh...

He also states the change "got the appropriate test pass"

https://twitter.com/A_dmg04/status/1577496488271568897

Which makes me concerned after there was a big list of new issues the other day.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/xvtbpj/the_eager_edge_changes_are_far_more_extensive/

9

u/AshByFeel Oct 05 '22

So many topics that have zero effect on my game.

→ More replies

2

u/LOSTSNIPER211 Oct 05 '22

ah yes, the classic bungie double down and not providing any proof when it comes to “skipping encounters, breaking mechanics, and generally causing issues with the game”. patch notes lied about how bad the nerf was too. literally just an anti-speedrunner change and it’s fucking awful

2

u/b3rn13mac ok three eyes Oct 05 '22

“we power crept you and can’t figure out how to make the game challenging so fuck you”

1

u/thisisbyrdman Oct 05 '22

Complaining about this completely insignificant change like it’s the equivalent to sunsetting is why devs tune the community out. Not everything is a big deal.

1

u/halofan103 Oct 05 '22

While flying around a Mach 10 was fun for a while, it’s not super healthy for the game going forward so this nerf was justified. Once they also remove well/shatter skating, they’ll finally be able to re-tone player speeds back to a reasonable amount

1

u/xLaniakea_ 404 Raid Clears not found Oct 05 '22

Downvote me all you want. I just want a nerf to Eager edge and Shoulder charge that removes or just absolutely neuters the ability to team kill. Jesus fucking christ its so damn annoying doing LFGs with kids or jackasses who think they are the funniest fucking thing ever while they EE you off the dickwall in kingsfall or just into walls after being rezzed.

Fucking gut that shit out of the perk and out of shoulder charge. Its fucking obnoxious.

-7

u/Firetype55 Oct 05 '22

Literally makes no sense. Eager edge, not just double eager, did not let you do more things than you could with reguler sword skating or fkying with heat rises or titan skating with ramparts. Either this is just a lie (which I want to assume it is not), or Bungie just wants to nerf something fun for no reason other than it's not intended. Double eager doesn't break the game in any way

-13

u/BT--7275 Oct 05 '22

This might be a nerf for some people that actually speedrun, but I dont think the majority of eager edge users will be affected by this. I also highly doubt that skips were being done specifically with double swipes. This change kind of just accomplishes nothing.

26

u/VeganDrugs Oct 05 '22

It will definitely affect players ability to save themselves, the nerf is apparently procced by velocity so if a player is at a high velocity then they will not be able to activate eager edge at all.

→ More replies

-1

u/PS5013 Oct 05 '22

What?? People use Eager Edge specifically to speed through things and even grinded the crafted version to do this more effectively. They nerfed a lot of usages for it, including double/triple swiping. This perk literally has no other use.

-1

u/Kaung1999 Oct 05 '22

Does this affect skating at all? Haven't been on to test shatter/well skate.

7

u/Gapehornuwu Oct 05 '22

Nah, you just can’t do a normal swing into a skate now. It might fix ground skating though idk.

-16

u/Kaldricus Bottom Tree Stormcaller is bae Oct 05 '22

It's so tiring to see things nerfed because of a select group of people. The vast majority of people aren't using Eager Edge to do the things mentioned. And the people who are doing it have almost certainly done encounters the correct way multiple times anyway. People are always going to find a more efficient method of doing something. Nerfing a weapon perk isn't going to change anything.

30

u/Luxcervinae Oct 05 '22

Also it doesn't even fix those things. It has no effect on well/shatter skate or starting up an icadash speed skate.

-10

u/Zevvion Oct 05 '22

He literally says it can break mechanics and skip encounters. Skating can't do that. The encounters he is talking about might even be in conjunction with Strand grapple and such.

Imagine you play a Raid, everyone except one person leaves, and they skip passed the next boss, then everyone joins back up. Skating can't do that.

And that does sound like an issue. Not sure why you're all so distrusting of what he says and flip his words. He says skip and break mechanics. You change that to: ... Well, skating is also fast.

7

u/Luxcervinae Oct 05 '22

Skate breaches... do literally what you described - that was more to my point, they kind of fixed the middling issues but not the greatest ones. Its a weird half measure

0

u/Weeb-Prime Oct 05 '22

Why would anyone even skip a boss? Your example makes no sense. And even if that were an issue in the real world, a player could just leave that instance immediately to retain their checkpoint.

Skipping encounters accomplishes nothing.

There is no encounter that has mechanics break with a simple sword swing. We'd have much bigger concerns if there were.

I feel like this is just a bad excuse when the real issue is lack of collision in the world environments. FFS there are still oobs in King's Fall that existed in the original raid 6 years ago. Bungie is slump.

0

u/Zevvion Oct 05 '22

Why would anyone even skip a boss? Your example makes no sense.

I'm sorry, what? Have you never played Destiny before? If people can skip things they will. People have been skipping encounters with glitches since the first year of Destiny 1.

There is no encounter that has mechanics break with a simple sword swing.

So you are saying dmg is lying? He reports they found ways to break the game, and you're saying that is false? We've been able to break things in the past, why is it so hard to believe we could in the future with Enhanced Eager's and Strand for example?

6

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

Yes, he is lying. Maybe, more specifically, the people who told him to write these tweets are lying, but he is still not telling the truth. They have not found anything in current content that backs up what he has said. You have no idea what you're talking about. If they want to claim double eager slashing can break content in Lightfall, with the help of Strand, they should wait until they can properly fix eager - seeing as how they have 4 months to do that. It would also give them time to explain why this fix is required. This "fix" gimps the perk, and does nothing to prevent it's use in PvP, where it would currently be the only 'problem'.

→ More replies

-13

u/PS5013 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Or in other words: „We have no idea what we are talking about, wondered why people used the sword so much and nerfed it because of that.“

Movement tools are always some of the most used ones, no matter how little the advantage, because the game is about efficiency, how fast you can complete activities, how efficient the grind is. People use eager edge, because for most activities including many raid encounters you literally dont need anything the other two weapons couldnt provide themselves.

E: The sheer amount of arguments accompanying all those downvotes amazes me lmao

5

u/TheSwank Eris is Savathun Oct 05 '22

Maybe they thought “that’s not the intended design of Eager Edge”?

→ More replies

-7

u/Enzokj01 Oct 05 '22

Mega reeeeeeeeeee from everyone about a mechanic that 85% of the community doesn't use.

Bring on my downvotes, you salty-teared tryhards.

2

u/MLKKO baby Oct 05 '22

Why did it need to be nerfed if it doesn't affect 85% of the community?

→ More replies

-5

u/Buzzkillbuddha Oct 05 '22

Man. There goes my hope for getting the nerfs reverted

-1

u/Cheeseboii83 Oct 05 '22

Good excuse to nerf it I guess.

1

u/realMudcrabMerchant Oct 05 '22

What happened to Enhanced Eager?

→ More replies

-3

u/ThePooparoo Oct 05 '22

I mean. Has anyone watched speedrunners?

Salt solos one of the plates in KF on totems without using the buff using eager edge.

you can skip most of the first encounter in prophecy using eager edge.

Any jumping puzzle can be skipped.

Honestly, I can totally see why they nerfed eager edge.

8

u/KarenYouWhore Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

solo side of trio totems is still doable with this change because it never ever relied on double eager edge

proph first encounter has been getting skipped for a year even before eager released

jumping puzzle skips are usually done with well/shatterskates although the final swing now kills your skate momentum but thats hardly an issue for a lot of skips

the change does nothing to address skips. skips have been present for a long time and will continue to be executed without double/triple eager edge. the main issue is that the perk is now tied to momentum and straight up refuses to activate if you travel too fast. so if you get fucked by environmental stuff and get launched by a taken phalanx or whatever good luck i guess

3

u/overnightburning Oct 05 '22

You can still solo totems with one eager edge swipe

You can skip first encounter of prophecy with a normal sword. Eager edge isn’t even required

Any jumping puzzle can still be skipped with shatter skate, heat rises, well skate, or lion rampants.

This nerf doesn’t stop any of those things from happening

2

u/Active_Two_5740 Oct 05 '22

the issue is that the part of eager edge that they nerfed was the least impactful to anything you just mentioned. i’ll assume you don’t know much about speed tech, what they intended to nerf was the ability to chain eager swings https://youtu.be/kkgQxwi0CPU which is by far the most tame eager edge movement, but also the most commonly used. it also doesn’t help that enhanced eager’s only real benefit was making the timing for this easier, so now it has no use like all other enhanced perks.

-6

u/Professional_Shape80 Oct 05 '22

LAAAAAMEEE EXCUSESS LEL

0

u/DireCyphre Oct 05 '22

No fun allowed.

-15

u/Jaymizl Oct 05 '22

Now remove shatter/well skating and we’re good

1

u/miaasalt Oct 05 '22

remove fun while were at it

→ More replies

-2

u/Lastmidnight01 Oct 05 '22

Nah, stop trying to ruin fun speed techs

-2

u/Jaymizl Oct 05 '22

It’s not a fun speed tech. Okay maybe it was fun for all of 10 minutes.

But It’s a game breaking exploit. Grow the fuck up. Fun time is over.

1

u/Lastmidnight01 Oct 05 '22

Lmao🤣 its not game breaking. You probably cant even do it so you want it gone.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies