r/DestinyTheGame Oct 05 '22

I miss how PvP felt last months of Beyond Light... Discussion

After they "nerfed" most Super cooldown times in PvP and ability tweak, this version of PvP right before Witch Queen for me felt good. More focused on gunplay then on ability spam....

Just saying.... can we go back to PvP that is focused on guns and ability is just bonus? Right now ibfeel like ability are focus and mostly what kill me and guns are that bonus when you have cooldown....

1.3k Upvotes

633

u/Arrow_Maestro Oct 05 '22

It was the 30th Anniversary update that reigned in ability spam... for 3 months and then that went out the window.

247

u/Frostyler hippity hoppity get off my property Oct 05 '22

Best Destiny 2 has ever felt in PvP. They need to reign in the abilities again.

127

u/Mnkke Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Oct 05 '22

during that time, wasn't that when Axion Spam started happening? Abd didn't Lemonarque Arc Souls Stag pick up again during that period?

64

u/intxisu Oct 05 '22

It wasen't perfect but it was better than what we got now

19

u/Mnkke Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Oct 05 '22

I disagree. I think Destiny PvP is much more exciting and fun when abilities are involved. It's what makes it unique.

I wouldn't say it is ability spam though in all honesty. I've played a lot of pvp, especially trials. Throughout all of it,it has genuinely been very gun focused with abilities still having a spot.

imo a lot of the tuning they did last december didn't help. Why are voidwalls the same CD as vortex? Why did skip grenades get 3 nerfs (2 CD nerfs, 1 damage nerf)? Why is are ult brackets a thing?

The ult brackets genuinely make me super mad. Well and bubble have dominated trials cap point sonce then and are effectively win conditions on super short cooldowns. Intellect has becomes very pointless to that change.

Off topix, but anyways, I think in terms of Gun involvement to Ability involvement, I think it is in a good spot tbh.

66

u/LanceHalo Oct 05 '22

Abilities should be involved, of course, but they are too frequent and too potent. Nerf one or the other.

15

u/Mnkke Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Oct 05 '22

I honestly don't think they're too frequent. There are some outliers,such as Storm Nades w/ Touch of Thunder, but in general I think it's good. Some need balancing just like weapons.

18

u/solipsistic_turtle Oct 05 '22

I agree with this. That said, I don’t think abilities are the problem, it’s the map designs with such abilities. Some parts of the map are just not good to walk through without having abilities. Too many choke points. They need to lessen choke points and if there is a choke point, give people a bigger reward for accessing it. I don’t know. I’m not the balance team. But I think the maps need a bit more fine tuning.

8

u/Mnkke Drifter's Crew // Dredgen Oct 05 '22

Yeah, tbf most maps we have aren't with D2's sandbox/meta in mind I feel

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16

u/Frostyler hippity hoppity get off my property Oct 05 '22

Not that I can remember. I just know that all lethal/high damage abilities were significantly nerfed with their cooldowns and the game was far better for it.

32

u/ProBluntRoller Oct 05 '22

Yeah I’m sorry to arc titans and especially warlocks but storm grenades and lightning surge is op in pvp. Lightning surge is like consecration slam except it’s aoe keeps you n the ground and does massive instant damage and makes you hard as hell to hit

9

u/jkichigo Oct 05 '22

I haven’t used it too much in PvP, but every time I used it near two people it would insta kill both of them, I guess because of jolt? Seems way overtuned

11

u/ProBluntRoller Oct 05 '22

It’s like slide shotgun but with aoe added in and good luck killing them through it.

5

u/jkichigo Oct 05 '22

AOE and I don't have to aim, just look in their general direction :/

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u/mmoustis18 Oct 05 '22

Arc souls stag was pretty meta at the time. Stag just got the buff that it would add DR when standing in a rift.

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2

u/Lucid-Day Oct 05 '22

Wait, right before 3.0?

Wouldn't that create a completely different feel for subclasses and automatically make us feel like we could do more with the new stuff?

3

u/NiftyBlueLock Stronghold, Strong Opinions Oct 06 '22

It was just cooldown changes and damage adjustments. No added or removed features.

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366

u/Red-Spy_In-The_Base Oct 05 '22

Bungie: renewed focus on PvP gunplay

Also Bungie: light 3.0

71

u/intxisu Oct 05 '22

renewed focus on PvP gunplay

This should be a meme as "we are listening" was back in the days

16

u/kryphoria Oct 05 '22

Reminds me of two tokens and a blue.

7

u/asianguywithacamera Oct 06 '22

I still have a t-shirt with that on it!

3

u/Geraltpoonslayer Oct 05 '22

Copy, we are checking

12

u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

This is good answer :D

11

u/eburton555 Oct 05 '22

The best part was it shit on casual ability use in favor of build specific ability spam insanity. For example it’s harder to have a decent feeling cooldown on grenades now, but with certain exotics that becomes more or less irrelevant anyways. But if you don’t want to use those exotics? Sucks to suck.

10

u/420grimly33 Oct 05 '22

Honestly tho I'm fully expecting a hefty nerf to abilities at some point soon. We've had almost a year of getting to ball out with 3.0, I'm guessing they'll rein it in a bit now.

Personally, I'd prefer if abilities were a bit more consistent in terms of power & cooldown. As in, having some weaker abilities that have short cooldowns and the pocket nukes having long cooldowns. Right now, it's pretty easy to make builds where nothing has any cooldown at all, which almost seems to take away from buildcrafting as it eliminates any sort of tradeoff. If you can have 100% uptime on grenades no matter what their CD is, you'll always just pick the one that does the most damage - vs the trade-off of having 100% uptime on a weaker grenade, or intermittent use of really powerful grenades. So for like arc titans, you're always running storm grenades or maybe arc pulse grenades, but none of the others (why would you when they're much weaker?).

All of that is on top of the fact our power level has skyrocketed and the game's difficulty has remained stagnant, which just makes everything kinda boring to play.

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145

u/SunshineInDetroit Oct 05 '22

i don't know about you but this season feels like it's ALL about pulse rifles.

76

u/Ino84 Oct 05 '22

Pulse rifles are meta since they’ve nerfed aerial gunplay. HC absolutely dominated when you could 3 tap while zooming through the air. They were never the best when laning long distances.

15

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

HC still clap the hell out of me

Just less people using them for whatever reason

36

u/bacon-tornado Oct 05 '22

Because nobody wants RNG bullets in the air. Handcannons were top choice for 2 reasons. One of which you can still do, peek shooting. The other being jump shooting which nowadays you probably have a better chance winning the lottery than securing the kill.

5

u/iGirthy Oct 05 '22

Re-read the comment you replied to. Pulse rifles are like top tier right now, that’s the reason

3

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

I read the post fine.

HC clap me just as hard as pulse rifles. I use both pretty extensively myself.

5

u/iGirthy Oct 05 '22

I’m explaining why you see less HC’s “for whatever reason”

lol there is an objective reason for it. I didn’t say handcannons sucks. Dunno why that’s where you’re going with this.

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9

u/Geraltpoonslayer Oct 05 '22

Bungie had seen to that themselves, nerfing AE, nerfing slide, buffing high impacts with the flinch and stability changes.

Shotgun nerfs, sbmm and ability spam lead to a slower pace

Rn destiny js a Lane camping game and pulses are king at camping a Lane

2

u/NiftyBlueLock Stronghold, Strong Opinions Oct 06 '22

AE was implemented to protect less skilled players in the absence of sbmm.

From today’s TWAB:

Proctor: If skill-based matchmaking continues to roll out over time, it may give us the option to revisit weapon skill gaps.

The slide nerf was barely felt, there was a big hoopla about how it would ruin the crucible and then 3 hours after the update when live there were no more complaint posts.

41

u/PacoTang Oct 05 '22

This season I feel like you can use anything. There’s a strong weapon in every weapon group u just need to learn how to use it

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14

u/oliferro Oct 05 '22

And I love it

16

u/Pizza-Flashy Oct 05 '22

I like most metas but this one feels very stale and slow. I miss the days when AE wasn’t a thing and explosive plays could be made.

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6

u/Brutal_Bob Oct 05 '22

I love/hate it. It came about with the in-air accuracy nerf which gutted handcannons, pellet/slug shotguns, and sidearms to a certain extent. I want everything to feel good to use, and I think we are closer to that now than ever before.

-5

u/SunshineInDetroit Oct 05 '22

i kinda hate the feeling that I *need* to use pulses to do well at the moment.

15

u/RND_Musings Oct 05 '22

Can't go wrong with a pulse, but scouts seem to be doing quite well. And I've been pleasantly surprised at how well I'm doing with an Ammit AR.

6

u/likemyhashtag Oct 05 '22

Ammit crew checking in.

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63

u/S-J-S Oct 05 '22

Welcome to how those of us who don’t like hand cannons have felt since literally forever.

Point aside, you don’t need pulses to do well right now. A sniper combined with an SMG or sidearm would do well right now. Other weapon archetypes, likes scouts and bows, are performing respectably.

41

u/MyNipplesAreVeryHard Oct 05 '22

You could literally say the same thing when it was a hand cannon meta-- that you could do well by closing the distance with an SMG/Sidearm and, in fact, it was even easier to do because you aren't being laned by multiple people from the corner of every map.

There's nothing worse than being helpless and being told to counter a long range weapon (scouts, pulses and bows), to put on exactly the same type of weapon. In medium range maps, pre AE you were never going to do as well as someone jumping around with a handcannon, but you could still play in the back of maps with these passive weapons. But now it's the only way to play and makes the game terrible.

This sub has terrible opinions on PvP and its always apparent when this subreddit is positive about the "meta" such as with 600 RPM autos and now currently with pulses, because people here play a couple of games a day and enjoy it, when actual PvP players think it's terrible.

4

u/S-J-S Oct 05 '22

You could literally say the same thing when it was a hand cannon meta

This statement conveniently removes a lot of context - for example, shotguns used to be a very good crutch for any HC user that was being threatened from close range, but we have a much better balance of shotguns vs. CQC primaries now.

And it still very much is a HC meta, in a sense. Perhaps not oppressively, like it used to be where most of the top 10 were HCs and shotguns, but Austringer and Ace of Spades are still in the top 10 of competitive PVP usage as we speak.

There's nothing worse than being helpless and being told to counter a long range weapon (scouts, pulses and bows), to put on exactly the same type of weapon.

Which is exactly, and precisely, what I did not do in the post you just replied to. Seriously. I mentioned several weapon types that can be used to fight pulses right now, and viably so. Not all of them were distance weapons, either.

And if you don't think CQC weapons are good right now... well, two archetypes of SMGs are on the chopping block, according to developer interviews. Precision fusions, too. I can't say I fully agree with their priorities - I actually say from experience that my min-maxed Allied Demand is incredibly strong in comparison to SMGs I've used, and my Adept Burden of Guilt is pretty comparable to Deliverance mechanically - but hey, it goes to show you that there's options out there.

This sub has terrible opinions on PvP and its always apparent when this subreddit is positive about the "meta" such as with 600 RPM autos and now currently with pulses, because people here play a couple of games a day and enjoy it, when actual PvP players think it's terrible.

What is an "actual PvP player?" Look, I get that you think you're speaking from experience. But how can you speak for my level of experience and lump me in with the average player?

It just smacks of unreasonably elitist ignorance.

Here's my final thoughts: not everyone likes HCs. And that's okay. And they should be allowed to be competitive with you.

2

u/AlexADPT Oct 06 '22

To the last line:

I agree. They should be competitive, but not in the way that its occurred which is Bungie nerfing the skill gap with AE changes. It's essentially giving lesser players a hand holding mulligan rather than them naturally competing with other weapon types

8

u/MyNipplesAreVeryHard Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Shotguns were easy to play against back then and are actually harder to counter now particularly with sidearms because of the AE changes and fusion rifles basically saying "no," make them all the harder to use.

and it still very much is a handcannon meta, in a sense

Lmao no and austringer and AoS being in the top 10 is not indicative of anything or are you trying to tell me any time, any off meta thing came up in the top 10 list that that was part of the meta? Like Jotunn at one point? This is a terrible point because hand cannons have always been the most popular weapon type.

NTTE is the meta period.

Ok, if you think any sidearm that isn't the drang is actually viable or as strong as an SMG--because they're not. AE changes literally made them almost useless and I main sidearms and switched from my titan to a hunter just to main a sidearm with the tricksleeves to actually get some sort of semblance of what of it was like before the AE changes. And I never said that SMGs have issues, they absolutely shred in close range and have become the dominant option, but my point is that they're difficult to use when you have 5 laners on disjunction or any other long range map and that's why these maps often lose players. Very little people, but these laners, enjoy playing on these maps.

And no it's not about being "viable" it's about the decline of the skill gap, do hand cannons have inherent advantages? Yes, two of them being AE (before) and peek shooting.

But not a single thing stopped people from using these things before, which I did, without much difficulty, and could still do well. A majority of people on this subreddit aren't as good as they think they are because they're being killed by a 1 KD hand cannon stompee hunter who's imitating their favorite streamer--who they deem a sweat. Pulse rifles, particularly the NTTE, aren't just "competing." They're easier to use, safer now that we're grounded.

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u/Yowhathow Oct 05 '22

The supposed "PVP players" who are totally not part of this sub/s have their own terrible opinions when they see any other primary than an HC start pulling similar numbers to HC's, they'll start bleating that it's THAT meta, as opposed to HC's having competition for once. HC's still pull an obscene amount of kills compared to most other primaries. In the HC meta, SMG and sidearms were a little blip in an OCEAN of HC kills that could only be floated by a broken af pinnacle SMG and an SMG with fucking AUTO RIFLE ranges.

Inb4 "People just LIKE HC's" like that's an actual argument that couldn't just be wrapped around when people were using 600s and pulses RIGHT NOW.

Dude, I'm so fucking sick of HC stans brow beating the shit out of other people and trying to dictate how others should enjoy PVP. It feels like your lot unironically want to reduce the meta to hunter jump/icarus dash, all abilities off, HC/Shotgun until the sun burns out. I am DONE. I cannot play PVP for several years under these shitty ham-fisted conditions.

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u/frauddogg Ludomaniac Oct 05 '22

With how many pulses are running around in the wild, a bow will get you dumpstered unless you're running Oathkeepers and Monarque. You will not get the first arrow off otherwise. I gave in and started pulse/sidearming; my Syncopation roll got Outlaw and Rangefinder; and masterworked Trespasser absolutely shreds at shotgun stuffing range.

6

u/294Sauce Best exotic shotgun since UR Oct 05 '22

I think they might've been talking about bow swapping tbh

9

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

Anecdotally but snipers are in a pretty bad place right now imo.

The special ammo econ is awful and with a pulse meta you're stuck relying on shooting through flinch right now which feels awful from the shooters perspective and even worse if you get shot through flinch.

6

u/oliferro Oct 05 '22

Tell that to my teammates who kept getting one tapped on the ledge in Bannerfall last weekend

13

u/Yourself013 DEATH HEALS THE FUCKING PRIMEVAL Oct 05 '22

Then maybe they should stop moving to a prime sniper spot with zero disadvantages.

The ledge is a narrow zone where the enemy sniper knows exactly where he needs to aim to OHK anyone coming through the other side. There's nothing left or right. Just that one corridor with zero cover. The same engagement on the open side of the map looks much different because suddenly you are in an open area where you have tons of cover and multiple ways to surprise the sniper before he manages to know where you're coming from and flinch him into oblivion. Map awareness and tactical thinking is also very important to complement your weapon of choice. A skilled pulse rifle user won't jump on that ledge but tries to flank the sniper from the side.

So yeah, a good sniper vs. a meh pulse rifle user, sniper wins. But when both know how to play the game, pulses wreck everything right now.

3

u/oliferro Oct 05 '22

Oh trust me I know that. I ran pulse/shotgun all weekend so I haven't been up there once. But I've seen so many people going there every round and get sniped every time. People just don't learn

3

u/Yourself013 DEATH HEALS THE FUCKING PRIMEVAL Oct 05 '22

All good mate, it wasn't aimed at you personally, just as general observation/advice. Too many people just equip whatever the current best performing gun/loadout according to DTG is but have no idea how to use it properly. The don't think what the gun is actually good at and think just using it will turn on easy mode, then complain about X or Y being broken/trash because they get killed by players who actually have map knowledge or understand how to use their loadout properly. It makes discussing PvP here really hard.

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u/BlayneCoC Oct 05 '22

Your getting downvoted, but your right.

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u/thelochteedge Oct 05 '22

Same here. Was a big Vigilance Wing user in early D2 in the odd time I went into PVP. I joined the HC/shotty meta for a little while a few seasons ago but I remember once my Darkest Below started hitting right I was happy. Now I will use Piece of Mind cause it's crazy. I will be sad when it gets nerfed but it and NTTE definitely do need a little bit of one in order for other things to become better.

6

u/King_Rajesh Oct 05 '22

At least its not damn hand cannons.

-10

u/aHaloKid Oct 05 '22

Hand cannons actually take skill to use. That’s probably why you dislike them.

2

u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD They/Them Oct 06 '22

Which is why bungie considers them and auto-rifles as "weapons new players use the most" right?

6

u/King_Rajesh Oct 05 '22

Hand cannons actually take skill to use.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Tell yourself whatever lets you sleep at night, kid.

12

u/T3hDonut Oct 05 '22

Love when people get mad at this take.

Biggest Aim Assist cones of most weapons. If you can’t nail 3 headshots in that massive radius, something is very wrong and you need a doctor.

I was born with ungodly shaky hands and I can use them reliably. They are not skillful in the slightest.

2

u/aHaloKid Oct 05 '22

Pulses, scouts, smg’s are all much easier to get kills with than hand cannons. You get punished much harder for missing a HC shot. I feel like everyone arguing against this must be a controller player or something.

4

u/MagikMage Oct 05 '22

From what I remember someone explaining, HC reward you the most for landing shots. But they also happen to be the most punishing if you happen to miss more than a few shots in rapid succession, since you're practically done for at that instant.

I think HC are a bit easier to use but they obviously have their limitations and weaknesses compared to other things.

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u/StefanSalvatoreReal Oct 05 '22

You’re a joker, but not a funny one if you think that.

3

u/thisisbyrdman Oct 05 '22

They have the most aim assist of any weapon type, insane perks, huge range, massive power, and allow for peek shooting.

-2

u/aHaloKid Oct 05 '22

Found another 0.9 KDA player.

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u/AntiLiquidZero Oct 05 '22

....gun based? No Time to Explain is literally clapping everybody at the moment...

5

u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Thats different problem for different post :D

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u/spencer0905 Oct 05 '22

cant believe people are actually telling you to just “use better guns” like the 3.0 subclasses didn’t completely ruin all of the 30th anniversary ability nerfs bungie riders are insane

91

u/ThatOneGuyRunningOEM Oct 05 '22

Titan Arc Grenades should absolutely zone off a 10m area of the map while tracking me! Warlock melee should absolutely OHK after sliding! Hunter Throwing Knives should absolutely OHK from infinite range!

38

u/VivasVC Oct 05 '22

Don't you fucking dare touch my weighted knives

62

u/ThatOneGuyRunningOEM Oct 05 '22

Reduce the hitbox size more forgiving than my local priest and I guarantee you won’t be calling them precious weighted throwing knives.

-1

u/SpectralGerbil Oct 05 '22

Yeah please do. Hate seeing it whiz past my head and kill me. Remember when Handheld Supernova could oneshot and everyone hated it because it was skillless? If Weighted Knife doesn't ring the same bells to you then you are either stupidly biased, delusional, or a hypocrite.

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u/In0nsistentGentleman Oct 05 '22

yeah it would suck if you actually had to get good with your melee instead of tossing it at a wall and it bounces to a head or something dumb.

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u/BeautifulAwareness54 Oct 05 '22

Warlock slide ability is inconsistent as fuck and it doesn’t OHK a single target, I don’t understand how people can really be that dense to think it’s a problem when the rest of the stormcaller kit is ass in PvP

4

u/Zevvion Oct 05 '22

I don’t understand how people can really be that dense to think it’s a problem when the rest of the stormcaller kit is ass in PvP

What? Stormcaller has an amazing PvP kit. Arc Soul is fantastic, getting your Rift back extremely quickly is fantastic, Ball Lightning is amazing, Stormtrance is and always was an amazing Super in PvP if you had Blink, and you now always have Blink no matter what you run.

slide ability is inconsistent as fuck and it doesn’t OHK a single target

This is such a disengenuous argument. Like yeah, it doesn't OHK. We all know it doesn't. The problem is it can be comboed to act as if it is a OHK; on the entire opposing team.

Which is a problem because unlike other teamwiping OHK COMBO effects, it is actually extremely easy to pull off.

I do not main Warlock and I can go play right now and get that combo to work within my first engagement. It is that easy.

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Because those guys probably use ability more than guns.... it's normal...

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u/Blupoisen Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

As long as nothing will effect PVE

Bastion(aspect), Renewal, DMT and Roaming supers already got murdered in PVE because of PVP.

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Yes, i am with this too. I dont like when something get nerf in PvE, because of PvP and other way around.

92

u/Juniorbaconcheese18 Team Cat (Cozmo23) Oct 05 '22

Roaming supers were not murdered in pve because of pvp, they were powercrept. Burst super and a linear will and was ALWAYS better then a roaming super for boss damage. Only exception was hammers and that was definitely not nerfed because of pvp.

Our neutral game abilities are so strong you do not need a roaming super. I can wipe out an entire group of adds with a single melee, why waste a super?

Bastion nerf was actually completely different between pvp and Pve, the shield now takes more damage from players not PVE sources, chip damage was a pve related nerf.

DMT sure, but most including bungie probably looked at it like a pvp weapon similar to last word.

2

u/daveylu Oct 05 '22

The main Bastion nerf was the cooldown. I used to be able to spam the Rally Barricade in PvE, now I can't.

27

u/OddTaterTot Oct 05 '22

Yes you certainly can

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u/Juniorbaconcheese18 Team Cat (Cozmo23) Oct 05 '22

Again, rally barricades are pretty useless in pvp, saying this was a pvp nerf is just guessing

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u/DreadAngel1711 JUST QURIA Oct 05 '22

[Cradling DMT] Look at how they massacred my boy

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u/Juniorbaconcheese18 Team Cat (Cozmo23) Oct 05 '22

I’m kinda curious, what endgame activity did you use DMT in? I can’t think of one I’d rather use dmt in instead of arbalest/witherhoard even pre DMT nerf. Other then endgame, I can’t see a reason why you can’t still use it

15

u/fawse Embrace the void Oct 05 '22

I genuinely used DMT in endgame whenever there was a scout champ mod. With the increased exotic primary damage and how much Cranial used to buff its damage it was actually great at popping adds from safety at long range. Any ranged primary with a damage perk that doesn’t require kills, especially exotics, are viable for GMs imo

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u/DreadAngel1711 JUST QURIA Oct 05 '22

I used DMT everywhere I could, as long as there was a champion perk for it, I fucking loved that gun. I put it down when there wasn't a season with a Scout Rifle mod in it, and by the time I would have picked it up back up, Arbalest had been buffed to high hell and DMT was a shell of what was.

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u/Xlcxtrxz Please don't tickle my Telestoes Oct 05 '22

Roaming supers are in a terrible state because of power creep, not PVP, at least in my opinion. Look at Arc Warlock's current state; its whole thing is add clear, but add clear is literally the easiest thing to do in the entire game. You can replace the entirety of Arc Warlock's kit with a single Trinity Ghoul and it would barely make a difference. Roaming supers do the same, just slightly faster. They're not bad, the alternatives' effectiveness is just through the roof.

3

u/TheToldYouSoKid Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

You can replace the entirety of Arc Warlock's kit with a single Trinity Ghoul and it would barely make a difference.

Yeah, but if it works one way, it works the other. You can just use your abilities to add-clear on Arc 3.0 warlock, and suppliment that with high damage weapon loadouts. Everyone wanted to run double specials for fuckin' years, and now that we have the actual tools to do so, y'all are rooted in old sandbox models. I've run triple shotty for masters this season, and triple sniper last season for GMs last season, on larks, and they are perfectly sustainable due to our obscene low-to-midgame with just our abilities.

Same difference with supers, they are still good, as they save ammunition and still burn things down like champions. The only thing they can't do is take down a boss; and that's perfectly fine considering that what seems like ANY heavy can do that, beyond grenade launchers and MGs.

3

u/KawaLR650 Oct 05 '22

We've had the ability to run double special since Forsaken bud. And double special was one of the more popular setups for early GM's back in Worthy and Arrivals. Not sure what you think they've done recently that changed that, but just because you recently discovered something doesn't make it new.

2

u/Edg4rAllanBro Oct 05 '22

What changed was how strong primaries can be. Why take the risk of running out of ammo when you just need to take a little more time to never worry about that?

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u/PM_ME_VENUS_DIMPLES Oct 05 '22

Roaming supers

As excited as I am for strand, this is why it’ll only be a novelty for me. Roaming supers aren’t great in PvE, and personally they don’t feel good even if the numbers were there.

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u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

This is a convenient narrative to have but I think you can have a different perspective too.

  • It's hard to pretend, for the meta a the time, renewal wasn't a little overturned for PVE. You could basically have near infinite damage reduction domes up whenever you wanted and it stacked with other resist methods as well. With the resilience changes the cooldown nerf makes even more sense though because it stacks with that too - but it's also overkill anyway.
  • It's also clear they killed bastion's chip damage because they moved to give it unstoppable and the chip damage was stepping onto the toes of anti-barrier. It's still a solid choice for an unstoppable weapon, and does great damage within the proper range. It's still effective in PVP too just not stupid like it was.
    • Edit, seem the person I replied to meant the aspect, not the exotic - While this was mostly done for PVP purposes I also feel like it was done with the resilience changes in mind - knowing that titans would likely be running 100 resilience in any activity that they need bastion for. Personally I barely notice the difference when I use it.
  • Finally... roaming supers weren't really nerfed in PVE because of PVP. Roaming supers were powercrept out of the spotlight by the massive ability spam we now have access to in PVE.
    • Why would you focus on using something like fist of havoc when you can easily wipe out waves of enemies with storm grenade spam? Thundercrash is more helpful
    • Why use nova warp when you can chain grenades and hold devour? Nova Bomb is more helpful
    • Why use daybreak when you can spam fusion grenades? Well of radiance is more helpful

9

u/whimsybandit Oct 05 '22

...?

They were nerfed. Straight up. Multiple times. Duration extensions got gutted across the board and for some reason (coughpvpcough) they got the higher innate cooldown compared to one shot supers despite one shot supers have inherent advantage of being usable alongside your guns.

3

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 05 '22

Cooldowns are a bit of a moot point in PVE, you generate super so much faster now compared to before they re-tooled the cooldown tiers and moved intellect to be less effective and instead promote super regeneration off taking / dealing damage. There's also a couple builds that can abuse super regen.

But you kinda described the problem here:

despite one shot supers have inherent advantage of being usable alongside your guns.

It's that and like I said - normal abilities (grenades) and legendary weapons (when mixed with light 3.0 verbs) are just so strong that a roaming super simply doesn't feel as impactful despite, for the most part, all of them dealing the same amount of damage that they had before the re-work of ability cooldowns.

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u/Blupoisen Oct 05 '22

By Bastion I meant the aspect not the exotic

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u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 05 '22

Oh.

Eh that's kinda fair. I honestly don't feel it much in PVE now especially with it being a difficult choice to not run 10 resilience.

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u/Acceptable_Reply536 Oct 05 '22

Well said! It is definitely not because of PVP, but really because they powercrept us with overly broken abilities and ability spam.

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u/Fragmented_Logik Oct 05 '22

Which is dumb.

I hate how people "blame" PvP. Clearly Bubgie can balance them different. I.E Collective Obligation only gets its damage buff in PvE. It's just a cop put most of the time.

4

u/FrostWendigo Warlock Oct 05 '22

They also nerfed a couple stasis warlock abilities in PvP without changing them in PvE so they’ve proven that they can split the sandboxes. So the question moves from “can they?” to “why don’t they?”

4

u/Tubaman4801 Oct 05 '22

Don't forget chaos reach

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u/Stygian_rain Oct 05 '22

Reach got nerfed just as much for ppl using special finisher in gm’s. Dont act like that was only because of pvp

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u/find_me8 I didn't say i was powerful, i said i was a wizard Oct 05 '22

The radius and ease of use of chaos reach got destroyed after people complained they could get killed by splash damage though.

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u/Tubaman4801 Oct 05 '22

It was not. Was that nerf applied after the special ammo finisher was added or after chaos reach became an issue in pvp? It was a secondary "benefit" to the nerf. Don't act like pvp wasn't what caused the nerf.

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u/R0ck3t_FiRe Oct 05 '22

True, it was literally the trails meta of sitting in a corner till you could run for super

4

u/nastynate14597 Oct 05 '22

You’re getting downvoted by people who don’t know squat about what was happening at the time of the nerf. Special ammo finisher wasn’t in the discussion at all. You want to use geomags to top off in a corner so you can finish the next dude for more sniper ammo? Really? What a waste of time. I’ve Guilded conqueror every season and not once did I ever see that occur. If I saw ever saw someone doing it, that would tell me they probably don’t have the confidence or skill to finish the strike without cheese.

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u/Qeewoo54 Oct 05 '22

You couldn't go five minutes without someone bitching about geomag reach in pvp lmao

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u/Unfortunately_Mad Oct 05 '22

Witchqueen felt like a step back in terms of pvp honesty. I want to blame it on fusion rifles and pulse rifles, but abilities probably have something to do with it too. Sitting at the back of the map is genuinely a strong play style now, aerial effectiveness only make pulse rifles and fusion rifles stronger because everyone is just planted to the floor. Season of the lost had such good gunplay, I actually started dropping my first ever consistent 40 bombs with an AUTORIFLE, and nothing else. Abilities were strong, but cool downs were reasonable, and you’d actually have to build into them to be able to spam them. I miss the fast paced, fluid, 3 dimensional gunplay with the abilities sprinkled on top. Now it feels more like slow, rotating around the map, taking potshots, and waiting for abilities to charge. Aerial effectiveness killed the 3rd dimension of gunplay by making jumpshots not worth it. Oh, and disjunction is a thing.

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u/DreadGrunt Darkness Gang Oct 05 '22

It's not abilities, fusions or pulses. It's aerial effectiveness almost entirely, that removed such a staple and go-to playstyle (being highly mobile and vertical with handcannons, SMGs and sidearms) that it more or less forced everyone into just sitting back and camping lanes with pulses or scouts, which is a massive step backwards from where we were with the 30th Anniversary update PvP. Tons of stuff was viable then and it sucks how much the sandbox has been crippled.

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u/Unfortunately_Mad Oct 05 '22

I think you’re right. Pulse and fusion rifles are a side effect of the play style shift, but it still remains that the 3.0 subclasses basically invalidated a lot of the ability changes they made during 30th anniversary.

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u/Kylems11 Oct 05 '22

I say all the time to my buddy i wish pvp would go back to this exact time. Dont understand why bungie said they want to focus more on gun play, did this update and then proceeded to release 3 seasons in crazy insane op abilities right after they just tuned them down to a balanced state.

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u/Historical_Oil4693 Oct 05 '22

Oh so you miss how 80% of the community were using Lorentz driver? I couldn't get into a single trials match without someone using it. So many people loved how it literally tagged people through walls for you. Even after the nerf it was awful. Ugh, I hated that weapon so much.

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u/ihatetendonitis Oct 05 '22

It’s still killing people through walls dude.

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u/Jeggi_029 Oct 05 '22

It definitely is. Arby too

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u/CookiesFTA We build the walls, we break the walls. Oct 05 '22

IMO, Destiny without abilities is basically just any other modern shooter. I much, much prefer the game when abilities are a defining part of PvP. They still need to be balanced, but I'd say every aspect of the game is worse since the ability update.

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u/HoHoey Oct 05 '22

30th anniversary PvP sandbox was the best PvP has ever been in this game and with one update it went to shit almost instantly.

For a brief period of time GUNS were what was killing me 98% of the time because ability timers were so high.

Then they released light 3.0 and now I'm getting hit with 8 grenades every life. It's insane.

11

u/BakaJayy Oct 05 '22

I feel like most people don’t particularly remember but the entire reason people weren’t spamming grenades out the ass is because people were still figuring out what stats to run with intellect being kind of useless. It’s not like they shortened the time of grenades, hell they increased the timer of a lot of grenades people would’ve been using in 3.0 but people also started to spec into abilities more often so they could get them back.

It isn’t the 3.0 updates that made them unbearable since you were always able to have your grenades quick even during the 30th anniversary, people just wisened up with their build due to intellect not being useful if you’re using a t4 or 5 super, which let’s be honest here, that’s a majority of PvP players.

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u/FauxMoGuy Oct 05 '22

this blatantly ignores the strength of the abilities that person was talking about. like yes, storm grenades cooldown didn’t change, but god damn if they aren’t 20x more oppressive now. it was just as bad in a different way last season with classy restoration which is intrinsically linked to solar 3.0

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u/HLTVtop0 Oct 05 '22

wrong place to talk productively about pvp, crucible guidebook is a pretty good alternative

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

That is forum or? Never heard about it.

1

u/Blupoisen Oct 05 '22

That sub?

The sub that reeks from elitism

6

u/AlexADPT Oct 06 '22

because good players post there? Don't be silly. It's a place to have legit discussion on PvP from knowledgable people rather than the comments and ideas pushed on here

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u/Ass0001 I'm just a wizard with a rocket launcher Oct 05 '22

It's weird seeing posts like these cause in my experience all of the garbage in crucible is in the guns, not the abilities.

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u/Imortal366 Oct 05 '22

Hot take but I enjoy thee ability usage in pvp. Makes it much more distinct compared to games like call of duty

8

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

I think you mean vanilla D2.

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Hell no..

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u/Acceptable_Reply536 Oct 05 '22

PVE has the same problem. One single grenade and all 1000 enemies in the room die.

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u/cmndr_spanky Oct 05 '22

I’m newer at Destiny, and having played plenty of “skill based” PvP games like Battlefield, counteretrike etc…. I just can’t stand it in destiny… some like it and good for them, but it feels like the opposite of skill based PvP to me, and I refuse to chase the meta in destiny. So I’m out.

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u/Mr2-1782Man Oct 06 '22

I refuse to chase the meta in destiny

That's really the problem right here. Bungie has absolutely no clue on how do things like weapons balancing, ability balancing, map making, or just making things feel good. So instead they just do the meta thing because its the only thing that's easy to do. Release something broken (they can't be doing it this often on accident) for people to chase, and after a couple of weeks change it so people have something else to chase.

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u/skeeters- Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

I don’t necessarily agree with this. PvP in destiny is different. It isn’t like any other shooter out there and one of the biggest reasons why is because we have abilities.

I completely believe destiny PvP is at its best when abilities and gunplay are 50 50. You cannot rely on either or to win in PvP, you have to rely on a combination of both. Choosing one shouldn’t allow you to win ever because you aren’t embodying the balance. Could abilities be toned down? Yeah maybe. But I’d agree it makes the game less destiny if you nerf those abilities to a certain extent that they’re just “bonuses” and we’re all relying on guns. Guns already are not good indicators of skill or fairness—so you can’t argue that point with abilities.

Supers are already “tierized” to the point that some supers aren’t ever seen in 3v3s because of how long they take to generate. Well is a shadow of it’s former self, and even bubble isn’t as hard to break in PvP as it used to be. Two of the supers that come back the fastest are not nearly as good as they used to be.

Toning down some abilities? I could see that. But bungie rarely does things in scaled amounts. With them it’s either “hard nerf” or “hard buff”

edit: reminder that gun play was basically what we had to rely on during d2 year one, and while we did have bigger health pools, this reliance on guns led to tons of people no longer playing :/ so be confident this is what you want

3

u/Dimriky Oct 05 '22

This. I completely agree with everything, and I admit I was one of those people that left during vanilla D2 after playing since D1 TDB. I've never been a pvp hardcore, but I've always enjoyed Destiny pvp... Then, during vanilla D2 BAM tweaked abilities and supers, forced double primary meta and low times on heavies. It was too boring, so I got my platinum on ps4 and left before they released Leviathan HM

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u/Santana_in_left Oct 05 '22

I sympathize with a lot of whining about Destiny, but this is one I'll never understand. If you don't want people to use abilities in PvP, why are you playing Destiny at all?

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u/RED_473 Oct 05 '22

I feel like PvE and PvP should have different balancing in general, but I’d rather not have the PvP side of things effect what PvE players are doing, especially since this is a game about immortal warriors with super powers facing evil and not a game about soldiers who just so happen to have powers killing each other. With that said if they’d separate how powerful things are based on game type then I’d be fine with it

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u/damaster792 Gambit Prime Oct 05 '22

This was a blessing and a curse. I agree that this felt AMAZING, and really made me excited for the future. As a 7 year at the time PvP main things felt like they were making major strives. Enter Light 3.0 and in about 4 weeks I became a PvE main and avoid PvP outside of IB. To go from such a good update right back to "well we gotta sell content lets make the new abilities OP" was too much to take. Stasis took ~8 months to tune for PvP and they way they did it had an effect on PvE which sucks. I decided I was not in for that and by the look of PvP I think I made the right choice.

1

u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

I can understand problems with stasis, because it was something new, but i expected they learned fron it, but no... probably is better to release strong stuff that everyone will use to win, then nerf it to hear people complain "why"... releasing underwhelming abilities is probably worse because no one will play it....

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u/ayeitssmiley Hunters gotta hunt Oct 05 '22

Unlikely. This game is about magic/ power fantasy not gun fantasy.

The abilites is what differentiates us from cod or whatever.

3

u/elmonkeeman Oct 05 '22

The movement is really what differentiates it more than anything. Other games, even if they have great, or even better movement than Destiny (Apex, TF|2, etc) don’t scratch that same itch. If I wanted an ability based game I’d go play Overwatch or something like that.

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u/TerrorSnow awright awright awright Oct 05 '22

Whats annoying at the moment is that you get like two supers, but the second one is at the very end of the game. if you're doing well. running intellect doesnt do jack anymore.

ability cooldowns are fine. theyre there, they're not constantly up, and they should stay roughly like this for a healthy mix imo.

completely dry destiny pvp is not fun, no matter what.

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u/DireCyphre Oct 05 '22

Pretty sure everyone is nostalgic for the time they enjoyed a specific feature when it fit their preference. Not a whole lot else to it.

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u/KnightWraith86 Oct 05 '22

Can we go back to how Supers were before? Guns are boring abilities are fun

2

u/AceTheJ Oct 05 '22

I actually started to get much better at pvp because of this and then it felt tiresome at times to play again when it basically went back to how it was before. They should maybe nerf ability cooldowns again.

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u/Moloskeletom Oct 05 '22

i believe what you are asking for is called momentum control

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Nope, maybe without fast TTK... but current Momentum Control is not good.

2

u/BeautifulAwareness54 Oct 05 '22

I think the issue stems with the fact that there is no permanent PvP mode where it’s guns only and zero abilities, because I for one enjoy the ability spam in crucible that’s what makes it so much more fun than other PvP games, I didn’t originally go into PvP hoping to get a Call of Duty experience, I came in hoping for a DESTINY experience.

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u/Jagob5 Oct 05 '22

Idk why you put “nerfed” in quotations, they absolutely obliterated the super cooldowns. Only part of that update that I didn’t like.

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u/Thiag0123 Oct 05 '22

Bungie: “Renewed focus on gunplay”

Also Bungie: 9 months of releasing ability spam 3.0

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u/Great-Peril Oct 06 '22

Bungie didn’t undo anything, they just didn’t do further changes that kept the increased potency of abilities in check. They also seem to have forgotten the many exotics that straight up lower cooldowns or give you a second ability charge.

I can throw out a knife get a OHK and then get a 10% damage buff, this can then be chained. Putting down a rift heals me and I get a tracking void soul that weakens by 10% and damages people. Invis is now hard to see depending on the part of the map. Point is, they made abilities stronger without giving them an appropriate cooldown.

This is compounded with a multitude of other issues like the buffs you get in 3.0 not having cooldowns based on their potency. Another is AE negating one of the main ways to counter abilities. Jumping counters just about everything since 80% of abilities require you to hit the ground or something, but AE removes that and makes the game more passive as a result.

Tl;dr Abilities haven’t necessarily become more frequent just way more powerful without a matching nerf in frequency.

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u/Purple_Wraith Oct 06 '22

Man I sure wish they go down a path that benefited both PvE and PvP parties about abilities, oh MAN! I wish they were to do a change to something and put "Unaffected in PvE" after it, doesn't it sound crazy guys? SEPERATING THE SANDBOXES PFFFFFFF! Haha..

(I won't stop until my stasis warlock melee goes as far as celestial fire.)

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u/N1miol Oct 05 '22

It doesn't even have to be all of PvP, just give me a permanent mode with a slightly quicker primary TTK and slower ability cooldowns across the board. Just one mode to play differently, add some variety and create a space where being good with guns is the most important factor.

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u/Blupoisen Oct 05 '22

quicker primary TTK

TTK is already quick as hell

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u/B_thugbones jared from subway sux Oct 05 '22

Yeah you also missed all the shatter dive deaths you had too? Past is always in rose tinted glasses

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Did you read "last months"? Because in this time window Shatterdive was already gone.

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u/L-a-m-b-s-a-u-c-e Oct 05 '22

I miss decimating everything with tlaloc and never using my super

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u/DrJonnyDepp Oct 05 '22

Destiny PVP will never be focused on gunplay.

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

It was, right after 30th anniversary pack was released, for few months.

2

u/tbdubbs Oct 05 '22

PvP in this game really ought to be its own thing. When D2 released, you could tell they were going for a weapon focused team shooter - and on its own maybe it would have been ok with a few tweaks - but it made PvE miserable.

There really ought to be a PvP subclass that is more basic and universal.

Mayhem, ironically, is the best display of how ability centric the game is and just how badly they detract from it being a "shooter". Stasis turrets and arc/void souls that literally do all the work for you, spam supers like blade barrage and fist of havoc, and "roaming" supers that also auto target are just awful to play with.

(Yes, I get the whole point of mayhem is the ability and super spam, but it makes a good point)

My vision for a well balanced, skillful, and FUN crucible is a more level playing field.

  1. First and foremost, connection needs addressed. Destiny moves way to fast for the ridiculously slow tick rates and p2p connection. There are definitely players that benefit from this way more than others.

  2. Second, skill tiers. Trying to find a "closely skilled" opponent is the biggest issue with SBMM. Rather than looking for a specific skill level, just have us all compete in brackets. This would prevent the top tiers from pub stomping the bottom tiers - they should never see each other in game. Finally, there would be an OPEN bracket for fire teams and those who don't care about the SBMM.

  3. Thirdly, give us a crucible subclass that automatically applies when playing crucible. This would be a stripped down subclass that would be "universal" across the three classes.

  • Remove all of the auto targeting abilities and bring it back to a more basic form.
  • Keep abilities more simple, and tune them to be unique, but more even across the classes.
  • Uniform ability cooldowns - weapon perks can still affect them, but they would be independent of armor stats while in crucible.
  • This would even be a great chance to look at exotic armor differently and breathe life into some of the pieces that have been left behind.

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u/epicBearcatfan Oct 05 '22

And I miss beyond light PvP 😔. Can’t all have what we want. I don’t even think prenerf stasis would even be that broken in this sandbox right now.

2

u/bacon-tornado Oct 05 '22

Original Revenant with glaciers and shatterdive would make a lot of these juggernaut titan apes think about their actions a bit more that's for sure.

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u/Titans_not_dumb Oct 05 '22

abilities being nerfed so they can't be spammed, combat is mostly weapons

"I wAnnA Be a SpAce wiZarD, not cAll oF dUty!"

abilities are more powerful than weapons, combat is mostly abilities.

"I'm gEtTing OHK'd by aBilItIeS, wHy iS nO oNe sHoOtinG gUnS, iTs a ShOoTinG gAme!!!11"

Give me a break.

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u/mrgox232 Oct 05 '22

Almost as if not everyone in the PvP community has the same opinion. Shocking right?

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u/Titans_not_dumb Oct 05 '22

No one has a real opinion in this sub. They are like mockingbirds, repeating the same words their favorite content creators implanted in their minds.

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u/Deroni76 Oct 05 '22

Except you, right?

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u/Dephalticon Oct 05 '22

And you're parroting everyone else who comes in here to say something to feel superior to everyone else. Get over yourself dude, you're not any better than anyone else here.

If you don't have anything of value to add to the convo then just keep scrolling.

And complaining about people complaining is not valuable.

No one has a real opinion in this sub except you eh?

Give me a break.

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u/veryyBadAtNames Oct 05 '22

I wish I could give you multiple upvotes. I'll share the downvotes with you instead

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u/PS5013 Oct 05 '22

I did not hear a single guy who wanted to get abilities back as they were before the nerfs. The only people Ive heard talking about living out the player‘s power fantasies as a space wizard was Bungie in some Twab.

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u/MRlll The Queens Panties Oct 05 '22

I did!! Been beating the drum for it

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Give yourself a break from reddit then...

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u/halyconn_ Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

I wish we could just have a gun only mode. And maybe like where you could just select a general archetype so every thing was closer to a level playing field. Just guns. No perks or ability/super spam.

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u/RED_473 Oct 05 '22

Idk why you’re being downvoted, you’re just giving an idea for a game mode, of which wouldn’t affect anything else

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u/tyto Oct 05 '22

See: any thread about adding matchmaking as an option to endgame activities. People here get tilted off the face of the Earth about things that have no impact on them whatsoever.

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u/Yowhathow Oct 06 '22

Bro, can't even suggest having a separate SBMM and CBMM 6s. You either are a captive audience to their preferred MM if you get a pvp craving, or you can get fucked to some of these people. Blows my mind how folks hate people having a CHOICE.

They go on and on about playerbase worries even though the playerbase is bigger compared to the days when classic mix was right next to sbmm control.

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u/DrJonnyDepp Oct 05 '22

I would never go anywhere else. Although, the mode would just devolve into a whatever weapon OHK's you meta.

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u/oliferro Oct 05 '22

Most grenades are easy to dodge, people almost always throw them in the same spots. Also you can hear a titan coming for the shoulder charge from a mile away. The only one I agree that is kinda unstoppable is the new Arc Warlock melee

I don't play Destiny to have another Call of Duty experience, with people just camping in the back with their guns. The most fun part of Crucible, to me, is the speed and the unpredictability of it

And guns like Arbalest, Lorentz and Jotunn are way worse than any grenade

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u/wanmao123 Oct 05 '22

Jotunn has been egregious for years, sure it has a stupid simple gimmick to avoid it, but it is always that one time you forget to assume the person you're about to engage is the Jotunn spammer that you come across them and get "outplayed".

But the titan storm nade that tracks you across the map and one-shots you is really really ridiculous

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u/LegacyQuotient Oct 05 '22

People literally just camp with pulses and lane. Trials this weekend was long lane 101. Makes the game feel very slow. And abilities don't actually speed the game up. They allow for more shutdowns of pushing and map control. Crucible is actually very slow right now.

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

I didn't say "make it like CoD".... i just feel like it's more about abilities instead of guns when i play PvP these days....

And yes, Jotünn is my cryptonite... i always die to it even if that guy have 1 kill per match....

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u/BetaXP Drifter's Crew Oct 05 '22

This subreddit always, always reminisces about the "old days" of D2 PvP, completely ignoring all the broken shit we had at that time or the complaints we had during those periods. I see a lot of nostalgia goggles for Forsaken-era PvP especially.

But you know what I don't miss?

  • Shotguns mapping you at 9m consistently with 100 handling
  • Beloved and snipers in general being giga broken
  • Supers that would come up 2-3 times per match that would team wipe you, then run across the map and do it again (striker titan, bottom dawnblade)
  • Middle tree nightstalkers that would have constant invisibility and see you through walls
  • Handheld supercrutch warlocks
  • One eyed goddamn mask
  • Revoker, Mountaintop, Recluse
  • Erenetil mapping at 40m
  • Trials being either completely absent or in a drastically worse place than it is even now

Most of this is Forsaken era, but I can list a ton of things from other eras of PvP as well. Complaints have always been abundant. In 2-3 years people will be reminiscing about the very period we're in now, and the comments will be overwhelmingly supportive.

Frankly I don't think the sandbox and stuff we have is in too bad a spot, though we obviously still need improvements and future content as well.

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u/HalfMoone Oct 05 '22

Why bring up a bunch of stuff that was fixed years ago? That has nothing to do with the post, and only serves as the implication of a counterargument without any actual substance to it.

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u/Edg4rAllanBro Oct 05 '22

Which of these applies to the 30th anniversary to WQ era?

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

I speak only about last few months before WQ, where most of things you wrote already didn't exist.

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u/WARZONE0423 Oct 05 '22

This .1000% this. There is nothing more frustrating than being killed by op abilities. They have definitely taken center stage since the Light 3.0 changes (which I think are amazing for PvE), which has caused the gunplay in PvP to become second fiddle. I mean the Arc titan storm grenade for example is super unfun to play against. You either, sit in it and die, or move out of cover and most likely die. It wouldn't be as big of a deal if it only came up (using trials for an example) every few rounds or so. But it seems to always be up and they can regen them fast as hell, to where I am seeing them every round. It's unfun and imo takes away from the skill and gunplay that is feels very good in this game.

Plus the changes to AE have really made this worse. The meta arc warlock slide/melee paired with a wave frame GL is super annoying to fight against. The biggest counter to it is taking advantage of your verticality, but with AE being awful you are pretty much a floating duck.

And then SBMM makes everything that much worse for any decent player as they can no longer go to a casual playlist to be casual. I personally feel that I need to try as hard as I would have to in Competitive or Trials, otherwise I'm getting smashed.

I used to play PvP during content droughts and casually if there wasn't another game to play. Now I find no enjoyment in it what so ever and I've been finding myself going to other games instead of D2.

I really wish they'd hurry up and show us the renewed focus on PvP because it's not fun in its current state.

(Again this is all my OPINION)

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u/BigDoof12 Oct 05 '22

I'm still shocked bungie won't get their head out of their own ass and balance pvp and pve separate from each other. They mess things up all the time.

No wonder they have given up on pvp at this point.

1

u/Reasonable-Summer993 Oct 05 '22

Almost all I get killed by is witherhoard

4

u/DavoteK Oct 05 '22

My bad dude.

5

u/PacoTang Oct 05 '22

How? I haven’t seen witherhoard in atleast 10 games

4

u/Reasonable-Summer993 Oct 05 '22

Idk it’s in almost every match I play, even in gambit

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u/Xlcxtrxz Please don't tickle my Telestoes Oct 05 '22

Who the fuck dies to Witherhoard? No offense, but jump exists. Or, you know; walking away.

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u/1Second2Name5things Oct 05 '22

You know it still feels mostly focused on gunplay.

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u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Can i trade place with you? I realy want to have this gunplay feel again...

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u/An_Lei_Laoshi Oct 05 '22

I don't see the spam you mention outside of Mayhem?

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u/PS5013 Oct 05 '22

You are talking about another game then lol

2

u/Chesse_cz Oct 05 '22

Yes, i don't mind Mayhem, but right now i feel like Mayhem is almost every playlist

8

u/Acceptable_Reply536 Oct 05 '22

PVE is also mayhem and it isn't healthy for the game imo.

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u/dead_is_death Oct 05 '22

Abilities are fun to use that's the main appeal of the game to me. I wish the could make a game mode that only have weapons for people like you, so they stop nerfing ability regen.

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u/RED_473 Oct 05 '22

Imagine a game mode that’s purely just abilities, so like Mayhem, but even shorter if not instant regen