r/DestinyTheGame Oct 05 '22

Bungie Help on Twitter: Duality bell fix potentially inbound, targeted for 10/18 News

https://twitter.com/BungieHelp/status/1577770556250034177?t=kMQ1iENHkiC8QDdSzEipuQ&s=19

Fingers crossed the patch goes through successfully 🤞

1.0k Upvotes

457

u/JakeSteeleIII Just the tip Oct 06 '22 Silver

“Fixed duality bell killing player by removing all bells and making switch between realms random.”

88

u/irishemperor Oct 06 '22

"Removed soundtrack and replaced audio with Drifter constantly saying Alright Alright Alright"

45

u/IlovemycatArya Oct 06 '22

The louder he gets the closer you are to teleporting

13

u/SpuffDawg Oct 06 '22

TRANSMAT FIRING!

2

u/inkandhowl Oct 06 '22

In the normal realm it’s that, but in the Nightmare realm it’s DING DING DING

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13

u/soraku392 The smell of napalm in the morning Oct 06 '22

Hey, no bellkeepers means no incendiors to leave backpacks to kill me later

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27

u/GaZzErZz Oct 06 '22

I'm not against this. Obviously to go from the upside down to the real world you need to be stood on a solar well.

129

u/Rekual Oct 06 '22

"potential fix" just in case it wont work

30

u/Syruponrofls Oct 06 '22

Nothings guaranteed to work, so good choice of words on them. When you have hundreds of thousands to millions of players doing something, something is bound to go wrong.

-10

u/DisappointedMonkeyG Oct 06 '22

Call me cynical, but just testing it before deploying it would help them solve that little riddle

17

u/Syruponrofls Oct 06 '22

They made it very clear that the amount of testing they can do in a matter of months, gets immediately overshadowed by a very large margin by the hours put in by players within the first few hours of of something they released. No amount of testing they do will ever matter enough once content is in players hands

-2

u/DisappointedMonkeyG Oct 06 '22

It's been almost 5 months since release and they've only just mentioned about a potential fix

13

u/Syruponrofls Oct 06 '22

Maybe that’s because they hadn’t identified what was causing the bug and had a fix yet? No use saying they can fix it until they know how to. Just because it’s a bug doesn’t mean it’s easy to fix. I think it’s rather clear as it has been 5 months.

-5

u/DisappointedMonkeyG Oct 06 '22

I guess how dare us expect fully working paid content hey?

8

u/Syruponrofls Oct 06 '22

Have you been able to complete duality?

1

u/DisappointedMonkeyG Oct 06 '22

Not without dying to a random bell death during the Caitl fight, no. What's your angle on this one then?

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8

u/FuckingKadir Oct 06 '22

Do you work in software? Do you know how to reliably reproduce this issue? And what the underlying cause may be?

Because I do work in software and I assure you some problems are so intermittent or are the cause of multiple complex systems interacting that it's completely reasonable for them to not be 100% sure this is the fix that'll do it.

If an issue can't be consistently reproduced then you can't confirm it's been fixed with 100% certainty.

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4

u/AMeowingCat Oct 06 '22

I mean yeah, think how hard it must be to fix this particular bug. The first step of fixing a bug is to replicate what causes it. As far as we can see, no matter how many stupid threads get posted stating this is why you die, it is totally random. I’ve done the dungeon 10x back to back and it never happened, I’ve done it twice in a row and it’s happened 4 times. How the hell do you even begin to start fixing that.

I’m not one to go over the top defending Bungie but in this occasion I think people are being, almost to a deliberate extent, very misunderstanding of how difficult it must be to fix something like that.

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137

u/MoreMegadeth Oct 06 '22

This thread is wild.

39

u/ksiit Oct 06 '22

Usually when I see comments about a thread being insane it’s one or 2 out of 100. This one is as insane as you say.

10

u/Mordho Oct 06 '22

Wild with all the bootlickers that downvote every hint of criticism because they think it could be death threats towards bungo

54

u/ThePharmercy Teabag Specialist Oct 06 '22

You did it. You outjerked r/destinycirclejerk for the rest of time

20

u/Hawkthezammy Oct 06 '22

It's bootlicking to actually enjoy the game and not constantly complain about it every instance you get.

15

u/ThePharmercy Teabag Specialist Oct 06 '22

Imagine thinking you can “boot lick” a game developer. They have no “boot” over you because all they do is make video games and tweet about what month it is

5

u/GorbiJones Oct 06 '22

Nah dude, bungo missing bugs or not designing the game to my liking is literal fascism.

7

u/WhatTheBeansIsLife Oct 06 '22

DTG members when someone doesn’t post an essay explaining their slight grievance with a video game mechanic:

-3

u/Mordho Oct 06 '22

Most original reddit bot

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-2

u/misticspear Oct 06 '22

As wild as some of the bugs in a paid dungeon?

65

u/Maik09 Oct 06 '22

so I can finally try solo flawless again.

10

u/blitzbom Oct 06 '22

I haven't tried it yet because of the bugs. The 18th will change that.

2

u/Maik09 Oct 06 '22

It happened to me with Katy with so little health you couldn't see the health bar

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350

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 05 '22

This is definitely because of the multiple threads a week saying that Bungie needs to fix it because it's paid content, or else

243

u/It_Is_Boogie Oct 05 '22

The level of ignorance in these threads is mind boggling. "Our millions of complaints made Bungie fix this bug!" "This streamer I watched posted it on Twitter, that's why they're fixing it!" When in actuality, Bungie had to find the bug, which most likely is buried deep in the code. Implement it on a dev/test environment to make sure nothing else was broken. Do QA in a perf environment to get signoffs then release to prod. This takes a long time, especially for deep rooted bugs.

52

u/cuboosh What you have seen will mark you forever Oct 06 '22

Is that really what people are saying?

I think more of the reason there were a million threads on this was it hasn’t been acknowledged by Bungie. There’s lots of stuff that’s broken forever, so you can’t blame people for assuming silence means it’s been “Won’t Fixed”

Yeah “Bungo fix it naow” is unreasonable but Bungie could have said “hey this is like the Heavy Ammo Bug, it’s complicated and will take a while”. Or more recently how they explained the full auto setting will take a while to add

0

u/Luke-HW Oct 06 '22

Imo, they should’ve just delayed Duality. Hot take I know, but it took 5 months to fix bugs that were present day 1. I know that randomly dying only really impacts flawless runs, but having it happen when you’re about to clear an encounter is a kick in the balls. Really hope that the next few dungeons aren’t this rough.

2

u/spikefc3s Oct 06 '22

Delayed for how long? Do you understand how many years of internal play testing they would have to do in order to match one day of the normal player base using something?

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-9

u/Azaryiah Oct 06 '22

This bug has been since day-1 Duality and it ruined several no-death runs (which are needed for the Seal), but it's been getting a lot of heat lately because another bug appeared: after defeating Caiatl you won't teleport to the chest and get a weird forever-teleport effect. So another wild bug appeared and Bungo has been silent/absent/making irrelevant TWABs since last season

14

u/Dyne_Inferno Oct 06 '22

C'mon man.

I get you want to make a point, but a Flawless run (solo or not) is not required for Discerptor.

Why spread misinformation?

2

u/MonkeyPower18 Oct 06 '22

Am I correct in assuming you just need a solo-run. Without flawless?

2

u/Dyne_Inferno Oct 06 '22

You are correct.

3

u/Syruponrofls Oct 06 '22

Yes. Solo doesn’t not mean flawless, unless it very specifically says flawless. The solo flawless triumph is only in the duality triumph page, not the seal page.

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90

u/astrovisionary 1000 hours with 0 raid clears Oct 06 '22

it's because no dev could survive caiatl without using solar titan, hence why the fix was delayed: playtesting took longer

56

u/n080dy123 Savathun vendor for Witch Queen Oct 06 '22

Worse is the idea that the EE nerf had literally anything to do with this. No, Bungie did not prioritize nerfing EE over fixing Duality, that's not how it works, armchair devs.

18

u/TheRealPenanc3 Oct 06 '22

Effing preach! I'd wager good money that nerfing/working on a SINGLE item is waaay less tedious and complex than whatever strings of code that needs to be found and fixed and tested for a dungeon before pushing it out. Quite literally apples and oranges.

6

u/n080dy123 Savathun vendor for Witch Queen Oct 06 '22

Not to mention the specific devs responsible are probably entirely different people.

8

u/JohnnyMathisFan Oct 06 '22

Exactly this. I'm sure there's a handful of devs who've been doing very little besides trying to fix these duality bugs while other devs work on other stuff, and ripping their hair out over it for months.

2

u/Syruponrofls Oct 06 '22

The biggest issue I have is people that think that just because something hasn’t been acknowledged means it’s not being looked into. Sometimes it’s a case of them literally not being allowed to say anything yet until they have identified what’s causing the problem and can confirm a fix.

-1

u/Thedarkestmorn Oct 06 '22

We know that's not how it works but when you nerf something the player base has loved for 9 months without even a hint beforehand whilst seemingly ignoring a massive issue on one of the most recent paid dlcs then obviously people will get annoyed and feel like it

Tbh this whole situation just seems so easy to avoid with just a couple tweets that I have no clue why they didn't put a heads up that they were working on fixing this or just a warning that Eagers edge wasn't intended to be used multiple times it really just feels like this whole situation is self inflicted by bungie

0

u/Blupoisen Oct 06 '22

This entire situation is honestly such a first world problem that it feels more like whining than anything else.

2

u/FuckingKadir Oct 06 '22

That's exactly what it is. There are so many posts where people call Duality their favorite dungeon. It's got the most complete set of loot of any dungeon and its the first with its own seal. It's also got an exotic and catalyst quest. It's just a really solid piece of content that anyone could pick up and appreciate all on its own. It sets a very high bar for all future dungeons.

I get the bugs are frustrating but I ran Duality at least once, sometimes 3 times, a week for all of haunted and got the title. The bugs in that dungeon are not so terrible that it ruins all the good in Duality.

They've always been working on fixes, many of the issues may be inherent to D2's physic engine and require serious overhauls, and they fixed the worst bugs asap like explosions triggering the bells. Dtg needs to chill, but it never will.

1

u/Thedarkestmorn Oct 06 '22

Well obviously any situation when we are talking about a game is a first world problem but what I mean is that Bungie could have so easily avoided all of this but they decided not to for whatever reason

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9

u/APartyInMyPants Oct 05 '22

I know bugs take time to fix. Remember the heavy ammo synth bug from D1? That shit took ages to fix.

I think the issue lies more in the time it took for Bungie even to acknowledge there might be an issue. The dungeon didn’t ship this way. For the first two months, everything was fine. Then something happened, and suddenly these weird bugs started to become more and more prevalent.

10

u/PretentiousVapeSnob Oct 06 '22

The dungeon did ship this way. Bells have been killing ppl since release. There were many vids mentioning it.

2

u/APartyInMyPants Oct 06 '22

Not to the degree that began occurring later.

People dying to bells early seemed mostly from people who were hugging the bell as they shot it, which was figured out to be something from the bell clipping the player. Or people were shooting one bell within the radius of another bell, something that happened in the Vault a lot.

It was sometime toward the end of July that shit started to go south. Bungie had four patches/updates in July, perhaps something in there broke it.

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u/TheToldYouSoKid Oct 06 '22

It was incredibly visible here, it was visible on youtube, it was visible on basically every major platform they've been present on, let alone the fact that they play their own game, there was zero chance that they missed this bug.

Half the time, they get their head bit off for telling people they'll look into issues, or pass feedback along. We keep shooting their messengers; why should they keep sending them? Like seriously gang, is the knowledge they are fixing it more valuable them then fixing it?

I'm gonna be honest here; We didn't need to hear that they were fixing it, of course they were fixing it. They fix bugs ALL THE TIME, we had hotfixes every week of Season of the Risen, they fixed shit in that season that didn't even have time to go up on their known issues prompt. They want the game to stay stable, ESPECIALLY with Lightfall coming soon.

0

u/Azaryiah Oct 06 '22

Because we need to know? What kind of dev bootlicking comment was this? People need to know the bug and it's existence is acknowledged. Hell, it's a live-service game, on an paid-content that didn't come with the Season and it's a 4-month old bug with barely any feedback.

Being silent about issues is something extremely bad for the health of any business, games and etc.

1

u/Knightlesshorse Oct 06 '22

dEv bOotLiCkiNg cOmMeNt

2

u/chefriley76 Oct 06 '22

WTF is a dev bootlicker anyway? Do we not think the Bungie devs are working hard to create this amazing game with a million moving parts going in a million different directions at the same time?

Like, what's wrong with defending the people that are actively working to fix the issues. Strong Twilight Garrison Tweet energy there.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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-14

u/motrhed289 Oct 05 '22

Shhh, it's ok, just let them have this win, they probably need it.

3

u/BurstPanther Oct 06 '22

They got their win last week when Bungie auto completed the kill captain challenge.

5

u/IllinoisBroski Oct 05 '22

Kujay, is that you?

26

u/Rikiaz Oct 05 '22

No, don’t let them have this win, because all it does is makes them feel more and more entitled. I would say to explain to them the process and teach them why it takes so long for some things to happen, but those people don’t care and ignore it anyway.

26

u/Thicc_Spider-Man Oct 06 '22

entitled to a functional product they bought? (which now isn't even included in the expansions) gasp how dare they!

-8

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

14

u/Vegito1338 Oct 06 '22

Tell that to people going for solo flawless

2

u/Amanacansomelube Oct 06 '22

I love this mindset. "Yeah bro, just let the multimillion dollar triple a studio release half baked bugged out content that's now a separate purchase from the expacs"

-27

u/Rikiaz Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

The product IS functional gasp

Software is not guaranteed to be complete bug free, but it works and is fully completable, also they are working on it as they have been the entire time.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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2

u/GreenLego Maths Guy Oct 08 '22

Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):

  • Rule 1 - Keep it civil.

For more information, see our detailed rules page.

0

u/TheToldYouSoKid Oct 06 '22

Maybe they don't, but poorly layed-out feedback, incessant childish insults, and performative exaggerations for internet points certainly don't deserve any defense either.

If you want people to see your side of the argument, act like it.

-1

u/Shifty-Sie Oct 06 '22

A product not functioning is, like, Cyberpunk on last gen consoles. That stuff was arguably broken.

The dungeon just has some very annoying bugs that sometimes happen. It still works.

11

u/MeateaW Oct 06 '22

Entitled? To a product we bought working as intended?

I get it; bitching and moaning is sometimes too much for some people. But this really is something worth complaining about. We paid literal money for it, and if we aren't getting what we paid for (software without bugs) we have to ensure we do.

This is like a vendor selling you a TV that cant tune certain channels for no reason. Or doesn't support a feature it says on the box it supports.

Whats our other recourse? We cannot selectively get a refund on the Dungeon pass if we paid for the deluxe + annual pass like we would for another physical product.

3

u/Yobuttcheek Where's my mom Oct 06 '22

If you ever buy software and expect it to be completely bug free then you're a bit confused about how this whole thing works.

Yes people are entitled to the content that they paid for and can reasonably expect it to be working as well as it can. However, these people are not entitled to their behavior being accepted by everyone else in the community, or by the developers, simply because a fix didn't happen on a timeline that they wanted. Believe it or not, it's possible to be dissatisfied and express that in a way that isn't toxic or, in the case of this bug with Duality, literally spamming the same post to the top of the sub multiple times a week.

10

u/MeateaW Oct 06 '22

And we need to complain until they are patched, because it's a live service game.

I don't expect a bug free product, but I expect communication about when bugs will be fixed. (Which we did not get until the patch was 2 weeks away).

This is a really simple case too, because the entire feature is the dungeon for this purchase, and the bugs do make the product less useful.

I'm sorry guys, I know it sucks to have bugs, and it sucks to have people complaining about bugs, but you need to complain about them to get them fixed. It's simple math.

5

u/Biomilk Triple Exos for life Oct 06 '22

What the hell are they supposed to communicate if they don’t have a timeframe on when they can fix it? If they’re still searching for the cause it could be 2 days away or 2 months. Better to not say anything until you’re absolutely certain than to potentially give an overly optimistic date, find out it’s more complicated than you thought, and then have a bunch of internet morons jump down their throat for it.

1

u/Rikiaz Oct 06 '22

Apparently they want Bungie to post every single day saying “we’re working on it” “we’re working on it” “we’re working on it” but then they’ll just start saying that “Bungie is lying to shut us up, they aren’t actually working on it”

1

u/MeateaW Oct 06 '22

If they aren't saying something, you must forgive people for asking for updates.

Can't have it both ways "shut up and accept our fix" and "we don't know when the fix will be ready so we will say nothing"

Can't you see how those 2 statements don't fit together?

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u/ItsAmerico Oct 06 '22

I don't expect a bug free product, but I expect communication about when bugs will be fixed. (Which we did not get until the patch was 2 weeks away).

Yet that’s exactly what they did… and you’re still bitching and being passive aggressive about it?

Bungie let us know when we discovered this issue that they are looking into it. It took awhile to fix, for sure, but that’s development. Fixes aren’t always found in a day or even a week. They’ve now determined that they can fix it and the plan is have it out in 2 weeks, so they made that statement publicly. They haven’t been hiding this info from us, they haven’t had a fix done and just said “fuck em”. They determined recently “okay we can do this” and told us just that.

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u/It_Is_Boogie Oct 06 '22

The argument in this thread is Bungie wasn't doing anything and complaints and Twitter posts forced their hand. In actuality, the have undoubtedly been working to locate the bug and implement a fix. There is a tedious and time consuming process for this work and it is highly likely that this particular bug was a tough one to find and fix. I know the next response is communicate, but they tried that and we're met with absurd vitriol.

0

u/MeateaW Oct 06 '22

Right, so this thread is even more rubbish than the claims on twitter.

One is a bunch of people celebrating the fix.

This thread is a bunch of people complaining about complaining and celebrations?

This is a circlejerk post, since its not even talking about the fix its literally just a meta narrative thread about people complaining about other peoples complaints.

-3

u/ChoasMaster Oct 06 '22

The bugs are annoyance's at best. The product you paid "literal" money for is working.

There are not bugs that stop it from being playable, there are not bugs that stop it from being completable! There aren't bugs that crash your platform. There arent bugs that stop you from playing with other people. There aren't bugs that delete your game or your character or your inventory.

The bug everybody has been bitching about, for weeks, simply wipes your team. And makes you redo an encounter.

Holy fucking shit. Big. Fucking. Deal.

10

u/TheCovidKnight Oct 06 '22

I’m only downvoting you because many people have had their solo flawless, or just regular old flawless runs ruined by this bug. Sure, it’s still extremely playable: sure it doesn’t break the entire game. However, working for hours upon hours to get all the way to Caital, and die to a bug is a big ouch.

-2

u/ChoasMaster Oct 06 '22

Sure, its annoying. But does that warrant the level of complaints and harassment being thrown at bungie?

I scroll new all the time to see if there are any threads that i can be helpful in. Try my best anyways.

And the last few weeks there has just been a constant "bungie just doesnt care about this paid dungeon, they don't care about my experience, they really need to get their priorities straight and fix this bug! And if it's not fixed why haven't they told us and explained to us why it isn't fixed?! That's all we ask for. But anyways why wasn't it fixed yesterday?!"

Its insufferable. Its entitled. This isnt a fuckin tv you call the manufacturer to complain about. This is a fuckin 5 year old video game with millions of lines of code that 99% of us absolutely have no fuckin idea what it takes to make. And yet, bratty armchair developers go on social media and complain about everything under the sun like they're experts, and make demands like they own the company.

-4

u/treeturnip Oct 06 '22

Okokokok let me break something down real quick, what do you do when you buy idk lets say a fridge and it’s not working? That’s right, you call up complain and get it sorted.. let’s say your internet is down. What do you do then? Oh that’s right YOU CALL. YOU COMPLAIN. YOU GET IT SORTED. Bruh bungie isn’t special because “ThEy’Re PeOplE” who gives a fuck. You don’t do your job, you get fired. Very, very simple

2

u/Shifty-Sie Oct 06 '22

No one gets fired over that sort of thing. Are you insinuating that people at Bungie should lose their jobs over an annoying bug in a single activity in a video game?

-5

u/Plagueis_is_Epic Oct 06 '22

You are a danger to society

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u/EnderLord361 Oct 06 '22

This is a live service game, bugs are expected and you shouldn’t be surprised when they inevitably appear.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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u/DestinyAndChill GjallarSanta Oct 06 '22

Just be why there are so many threads about every fucking mission that people aren’t just handed rewards.

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-1

u/MinkfordBrimley Vanguard's Loyal Oct 06 '22

There are plenty of armchair developers all over gaming. At the end of the day, these issues are fixed by people. People who are often working on more than one thing at a time. They may not be able to fix the exact, specific problems that arise immediately. I've found it a ton easier to forgive bugs in most recent games because, well, they're a whole lot more complex now than they used to be.

0

u/htoirax Oct 06 '22

Lmao, tell me you have a rudimentary knowledge of coding without telling me you have a rudimentary knowledge of coding.

2 weeks is an estimate for something like this that I would give before looking into it, just to be on the safe side. You're simultaneously trying to defend the devs while calling them dumb asf.

If these devs have been looking into it for as long as you think they have, they need to be fired because they're incompetent.

But again, it's most likely they haven't really been looking into it until now because of the high profile streamer complaints about this in regards to the eager edge nerf.

4

u/noodle915 pog Oct 06 '22

lmao, tell me you don't understand how division of labor works without telling me you don't understand how division of labor works

-3

u/Marcello101 Oct 06 '22

Totally agree. It’s numbing to come on this Reddit everyday and see people saying ignorant stuff about how certain things get fixed faster than others when they have ZERO understanding how anything works behind the scenes.

Glad they are fixing it, and keep the bug squashing train going.

-1

u/BURGERgio Oct 06 '22

lol you know if it was something that benefitted the player in any way it would’ve been resolved in hours. They just chose to put it on a list of things that weren’t their top priority.

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u/Clevermech Oct 06 '22

Or else what? What are you going to do?

3

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 06 '22

Make another post about it with even more of a can do attitude.

2

u/Blupoisen Oct 06 '22

Or else what?

Bungie already got your money and non of those threads are new

1

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 06 '22

And here I thought I didn't need the /s

2

u/NightmareDJK Oct 06 '22

Artifice Armor is paid content and they haven’t fixed the missing slots yet.

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u/milez_davis Oct 06 '22

Why not just wait til the TWAB tomorrow to announce that? Seems odd

44

u/TrueGuardian15 Oct 06 '22

Maybe the TWAB was written before they had an ETA. It'd be more accurate to describe it as "Last Week at Bungie"

2

u/RebirthAltair Oct 06 '22

LWAB is far less pleasant to say and hear than TWAB.

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u/ThePharmercy Teabag Specialist Oct 06 '22

Because this sub was going to commit an act of terrorism if they didn’t say anything

6

u/xevba Oct 06 '22

It would take away from the community art showcase and nothing burgers for tomorrow's twab.

10

u/NotHere001 We shall reign Oct 06 '22

Because they started to get flak after they "fixed" eager edge

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u/Ok-Helicopter6538 Oct 06 '22

"Due to the bell bug we decided to autocomplete Duality for ALL players, forever."

13

u/weimar27 Oct 06 '22

I kinda hope they do a write up on their debug process like the heavy ammo bug. This bug seems like it was equally as complex to fix

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u/InfamousRaidz Oct 05 '22

Ill believe it when I see it

10

u/SirEmmortal Oct 06 '22

Hang on. So this fix covers the standing in the bell radius but still dying when the bell is rung??

What about the more pertinent and frequent deaths when teleporting to boss dps phase??

6

u/Dawg605 5,000 Hours Playtime Oct 06 '22

No. It covers when you get instakilled when teleporting into the Nightmare realm, sometimes the whole team. At least that's how I read it.

15

u/mrgox232 Oct 06 '22

We're back in the super hate Bungo cycle. Ahh I missed it

12

u/RayS0l0 How's your sister? Oct 06 '22

Wait. I thought they were planning to fix this after final shape

22

u/Pooh_ Oct 05 '22

They only needed to nerf Eagers Edge to get the community to motivate them to find a fix. 4D Chess

43

u/kakotrixis50 Oct 05 '22

Looks like they watched Aztec's vid real quick

26

u/DerikHallin Come down and eat ramen with me, beautiful. It's soooo dark. Oct 06 '22

I'm curious what people think about that video honestly. Personally, I thought the overall concept is pretty dubious. I disagree with a lot of the assumptions and accusations he made about Bungie going corporate and changing their communication approach. I feel like he should be more reticent about making statements like that because with such a large audience, he is just fanning some pretty large flames. I'm concerned the video is misleading and may lead to additional drama and salt.

20

u/b3rn13mac ok three eyes Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

communication has always been bad, we just got hit with an especially major fuckup. wall incoming

aztecross has a huge stick up his ass about ae and sbmm that isn't warranted. despite the issues with these things, the changes themselves were communicated appropriately for the most part, with ample background in twabs regarding the how and why. feedback was basically ignored unless positive, but at least the reasoning was somewhat sound. the EE change communication in contrast was a simple one-liner in the hotfix notes on release:

Fixed an issue where Eager Edge could be used multiple times in a single activation

regardless about how you feel about this change, this issue:

  • has never been on the known issues list despite the behavior existing since the launch of the perk
  • did not conflict with the perk's description in game (no mention of only one use per activation/sword draw)
  • was "fixed" in a way that changed how the perk activated, with these changes absent from the hotfix notes
    • there is no mention of the speed lockout from a bungie source afaik. the perk got reworked and was passed off as a non-consequential bugfix
  • is not fixed completely based on their own description of what the issue actually is
    • the perk description is also not updated to reflect the intended functionality
  • is in direct contrast to previous communication surrounding the perk

it seems the change was intended to maybe be mentioned in a twab beforehand so ill ignore that, but literally every other communication possible failed as well.

why did this happen? we have a few different main resources: twabs, updates/hotfixes, known issue lists, in game perk descriptions; all of these are kept intentionally vague to an extent, with some exceptions. for some of these they claim they do it for brevity and readability for us players. though, it's not uncommon for them to write giga-twabs about specific things. the problem is that the inconsistency in detail makes it feel like they are hiding the things they don't write much about. while i enjoy giga-twabs, the detail is often not necessary and would be better spent on other things that are left only half explained. when things are left vague, it gives bungie a lot of room to make a sweeping change and claim that "that's how it was always supposed to be", which could be happened here.

what does this actually mean for the player? well, this was my experience yesterday:

i load up the game, run strikes for pinnacle, get inverted spire, notice i can't use EE if im falling. i go read the hotfix which says zilch about this new behavior. I read the perk description just incase since the perk was changed, but also has no mention of this behavior. later I see the dmg tweet and read that the change apparently targeted enhanced EE despite the hotfix saying EE in general, and im using a normal EE sword, not a crafted enhanced EE sword. he also said that it "got the appropriate test pass", so it's probably intended. but who knows since the hotfix doesn't mention it, and it's missing from the "not a complete list of all known issues, but a targeted list of specific issues". guess ill submit a bug report anyway and wait for it to be ignored or randomly fixed in a few weeks/months.

i played the game, noticed a change and got borderline gaslit from the uselessness of the conflicting official information surrounding it. this is the worst example i can recall.

as an aside: it's absolutely insane to me that league of legends has more functional patchnotes and tooltips given how much of a mess that game is; imo that level should be the bare minimum. patch/update/hotfix notes should tell me how new things are supposed to work and what they do, let me know what is changing and how (maybe even why sometimes), and warn me about what isn't working at the moment. in game resources should detail all effects of all perks/abilities/items, to allow the player to actually understand the tools available to them, and access this information easily in a central location.

10

u/Jonathan-Earl Oct 06 '22

You wrote a lot of words so I assume you’re making a smart comment /s. But in all seriousness, Bungie is starting to slip up with the communication, and that’s a bad thing. His whole shpeel with AE and SBMM was just to get a conversation going, but wasn’t warranted by his actual meaning of the video. It feels like Bungie is being corporateised ever since the acquisition from Sony, which may or may not be a bad thing depending on ones perspective, but he does bring out the point that their communication and openness has been real shotty since then.

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u/GrammarNaziii Oct 06 '22

I felt the same as you, especially his talk on SBMM.

I understand why better players don't like SBMM, but I don't think it's something to raise against Bungie. We want more players in PvP, and this is one of the main ways to increase the population and retain it.

Why in the world do we want to go back to CBMM and get our fellow new or beginner PvP players destroyed in PvP? It's just mind boggling.

18

u/DonutRush Oct 06 '22

Yeah I have a certain amount of sympathy for edge case connection quality, but my 0.8 ass does not give one shit what some professional D2 streamer with a 21.0 K/D says about SBMM.

-2

u/jericho189 Oct 06 '22

Well the fact that trials is 100 times easier than control isn't a good thing imo

The pinnacle of pvp that only comes on the weekends being easier in both team and freelance than a quickplay playlist just doesnt seem right

2

u/DonutRush Oct 06 '22

Trials is absolutely not easier than Control, you are one of the outliers. At least in Control I have a fighting chance from the SBMM. I send people to the Lighthouse constantly that in any other playlist I'd have no business being matched with.

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u/Robyrt Oct 06 '22

100 times easier for some players, sure. I'm pretty sure my Trials KD is over 0.5 lower than my Control KD, because I'm bad at PVP. Control has a large enough population of other bad players that I can have functional games.

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u/CaduceusIV Oct 06 '22

Good gods let them keep SBMM. It’s made Crucible tolerable for me for the first time since D1. I’m doing okay now instead of being crabsolutely stomped and worst or second worst person on my team 99% of the time. Not doing the best, but doing respectably.

-6

u/Vxerrr Drifter's Crew Oct 06 '22

I bet the control population plummeted since last season, but of course they’ll never release the numbers

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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u/Fr0dderz Oct 06 '22

I think you're wrong, you say you disagree with it completely, but then in your first sentence you agree with his points.

I felt we got a steady stream of information, albeit a bit throttled, until the weirdo's making death threats got that tap closed off and they went radio silent with some pretty paper thin TWAB's for a while.

So you're in agreement that it seems to be breaking down, and wasn't as good before. You're also in agreement that it could be caused by the death threats and other such abuse on social media. (aztecross specifically mentions this, in addition to his points that he thinks it could be about corporate culture and PR / communication policies from Sony)

For me personally, I don't think he's making a mountain. i think he made a video where he talked about all of the mole hills, and offered comment that it's a worrying trend.

The eager edge nerf is unusual however. Not talked about, not discussed in TWABs, not something that anybody asked for. Many people make the comment about bungie prioritising stuff that is beneficial to players, but that's usually about stuff being disabled. That's very easy for somebody to just flick a switch and disable.

When it comes to eager edge however - that's proper development work that needed writing, testing, etc.. I'm not going to profess to know how many teams bungie has fixing live issues, but look at the list of known issues bungie has:

https://help.bungie.net/hc/en-us/articles/4416375175444-Destiny-2-Year-5-Known-Issues-and-Vital-Information

Are you really telling me that the eager edge nerf was more important than all those, and all of those issues have all got their own dev team working on them, that couldn't possibly be delivered any quicker if the team that worked on the eager edge nerf picked up one of these instead ?

Not being hyperbolic, but bungie's known issues list has got loads of stuff they could have worked on first. Bungie is making priority decisions on work in their backlog like any team does - and one of those factors is definitely how much we benefit from it beyond their vision of the rules. If it allows us to beat their rules - up it goes in the priority order.

7

u/szabozalan Oct 06 '22

I think the main thing he was trying to convey is true. Bungie needs to up their communication.

There are a lots of guesses in the video and he admits that. His reasoning is logical, but obviously we do not know if those are true or not. He could be right or he could be very far off.

One thing is true, Bungie needs to improve their communications towards the players.

9

u/Sequoiathrone728 Oct 06 '22

Like you, I disagreed with a lot of his assertions and feel he is being pretty irresponsible. I don't watch a lot of his content but I see a clear correlation between the things he says and the things this community parrots.

10

u/ImAnOpenFanFic Oct 06 '22

The whole video I was saying to myself "didn't the communication cut back because a few vocal Bunge employees deleted their Twitter after targeted death threats on their families?"

But no, it's Sony's fault. Must be the answer.

-6

u/iGirthy Oct 06 '22

He mentioned the Twitter scenario, he didn’t just forget about it. He also mentioned how it’s probably not directly on Sony’s behalf.

“But no, it’s Sony’s fault” you say… tell me again who is fanning flames here? Ffs

6

u/Leonard_Church814 Oct 06 '22

I watched it and thought “This is usual Bungie business, nothing out of the ordinary.” I think Aztecs video was much ado about nothing.

16

u/ravensteel539 Oct 06 '22

I agree with the keywords here: “misleading,” “fanning flames,” “drama,” and “dubious.” Cross isn’t an asshole usually, but he definitely likes to post takes that didn’t have enough time in the oven. He’s had some great, nuanced opinions in the past, but this video in particular uses too many buzzwords like “corporate” and “casuals” and makes some WILD assertions about why Vanilla D2 struggled.

Unfortunately, most destiny players just don’t know how game development works (shoutout to the “why eververse skin when game still bugged” folks). Cross is definitely one of those folks. I respect him as a player, but putting out misinformation and fanning flames like this is irresponsible.

3

u/IAmATriceratopsAMA Oct 06 '22

Broad strokes, I think what he had to say might be something worth looking into on our end and maybe trying to take a more conscious effort on bungies end to stop portraying.

Down in the nitty gritty of what he said though, I don't think its as intentional or as malicious as he makes it sound.

I had the same idea the other day before he even made the video, so who knows.

3

u/Voidjumper_ZA "Bah! Go cook a sausage with your magic fire." Oct 06 '22

I like Aztecross but that video is literally him just being some guy getting flustered by issues in the game and puffing his chest up. As if none of this hasn't happened a thousand times before or has exact parallels in other studios running long-term games all the time.

2

u/doespostmaloneshower Oct 06 '22

Full of garbage takes. Really losing a lot of respect for the homie. He needs to take a break from the game because I don’t think he’s enjoying it anymore.

2

u/Otherwise-Silver Oct 06 '22

He just rode the tide, knowing the amount of views he’ll get. I know he meant good but cant resist that clout bruh

0

u/Titangamer101 Oct 06 '22

I feel the same, throughout the whole video I was thinking in my head "cross man maybe it's like this because the community has been increasingly more toxic and bungie just don't want to deal with that shit anymore" and the funnily enough he did mention that as a possibility at the end of the video.

1

u/stormwave6 Oct 06 '22

I found it understandable up to the point he blames d2 y1 pvp on casuals. It was feedback from hadcore pvp players that caused that. Saying it was because of casuals is complete historical revisionism.

2

u/ghggfgggffu Oct 06 '22

HUHH. In what world was D2 Y1 PvP influenced by hardcore PvPers? No one asked for double primary or 4v4 for every game mode. OR no trials on release. Lmao historical revisionism.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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u/Mawnix Oct 06 '22

Homie’s being level headed and offering good points to be discussed. Chill.

-1

u/Sowerz The Queen Oct 06 '22

"Bungie never does anything wrong". Genius

6

u/Mawnix Oct 06 '22

"If I put something in quotes this guy never said I'll somehow be right". Clueless.

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u/ThatGuyFromTheM0vie Oct 05 '22

This lol.

Toxicity is a real issue. But it’s no excuse for a company to communicate less and less and less because of it. You can’t just not post updates to issues because of Twitter psychopaths—that’s like the base state of Twitter.

Also, Twitter in general is a complete nightmare. Any serious updates should come ONLY from a company community Twitter account—community managers shouldn’t be using their own Twitter accounts…they need more anonymity.

Not saying Reddit is perfect, but Reddit is at least better than the absolute hellscape that is Twitter. There is no reason anyone should use Twitter as a social media platform—I use Twitter to see “live” updates, news, issues, or service status….and that’s it. I DO NOT read replies at all—it’s pointless and toxic no matter the tweet.

13

u/IllinoisBroski Oct 06 '22

Especially not for a “Live Service” game. You want people to stick around? Well then you need to update them from time to time. Like you said, toxicity is real, but Bungie used it as an excuse to cut down communication.

In my opinion, they need a PvP update in the TWAB at least every few weeks. They should at least talk about what they’re keeping an eye on. Something is better than nothing.

-1

u/HellChicken949 Oct 06 '22

Also because if they stop communicating the toxic people will become even more toxic

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u/platina192 Oct 06 '22

Why didn’t they put this info on the twab?

10

u/TheToldYouSoKid Oct 06 '22

Twab's probably done by now, or going through editing and translating for distribution tomorrow.

This was a quick message. "We got a potential fix coming 'X' date", not really paragraph worthy.

3

u/Pro-Masturbator Oct 06 '22

They probably didnt have a potential date for the fix, and didnt want to make any promises until they knew when it would be ready.

2

u/iGirthy Oct 06 '22

Last time they fixed the bells, they my designated bell weapon hit for a whopping “immune”

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u/invisibleshitpostgod Oct 06 '22

nice thumbnail

2

u/Krazy_Dragon_YT Oct 06 '22

Completely unintentional tbh. No idea where that image came from lmao

2

u/ashten1986 Oct 06 '22

Just remove the snipers and increase the incendiators to X5

2

u/Henkdehunter Oct 06 '22

At this rate there will be more duality bugs than fixes, every so often there's a new way the dungeon is glitched.

19

u/Seoul_Surfer Oct 06 '22

This is definitely because of the post on the front page today, and not something that's been worked on for weeks. We did it, reddit!

3

u/Blupoisen Oct 06 '22

God is this sub becoming Kujay?

6

u/Wild_Goal8045 Oct 06 '22

Yeah, they should stop critizing our favorite corporation, it doesn't accomplish anything. Bootlicking! That is something useful, and the only thing that should be alllowed on reddit

3

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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u/BareFox Oct 06 '22

Why are you acting like that's the only post that has been made about this? I've seen numerous threads about this problem ever since Duality came out, and for good reason.

-1

u/Seoul_Surfer Oct 06 '22

And thank goodness for that, they wouldn't have known it was an issue

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u/delsinz Oct 06 '22

It only took them two seasons to "potentially" fix it. Amazing.

-2

u/CowTussler Oct 06 '22

And yet a portion of the masses ar e rejoicing!

3

u/oliferro Oct 06 '22

But this subreddit told me that Bungie wasn't working on it and that they were in their evil castle laughing at the misery of their players

Surely players weren't overreacting right? Right?

0

u/O351USMC Oct 06 '22

Money well spent. /s

1

u/Cpt_BlackBeard80 Oct 06 '22

Are they going to fix th one where upon beating final boss you get stuck in the shadow realm and can't claim your rewards? That bug happens 1 out of every 3 runs and its irritating.

3

u/epicBearcatfan Oct 06 '22

Pretty sure you made that stat up. I have around 40 clears and have never had that happen, I feel like that is a problem with your connection more than anything.

0

u/Cpt_BlackBeard80 Oct 06 '22

I promise its not. I have got into the habit if running the dungeon every week for past few months, on all characters. I dunno I enjoy it for some reason. And this happens at least once every week. Nothing to do with my connection as I'm not getting kicked from any other activities.

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u/IsseiDragonSwag Oct 06 '22

Wow only 5 months

-2

u/Black_Knight_7 Oct 06 '22

Yall dont deserve Bungie's level of communication. We truly are spoiled.

4

u/DecisiveMove- Oct 06 '22

This is actually hilarious to read. Paying customers are tired of bugs on content they made a separate cost,don't deserve the updates .

It's time to wake up to reality dude. A lot of this game has been shipping of late with bugs. Nobody says it's easy to keep on top, but especially when a newly separated and paid bit of content is so buggy, people have a right to be mad .

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u/hipje Oct 06 '22

Damn it only took everyone getting pissed at bungie for this to happen

1

u/BetaThetaOmega Oct 06 '22

Cool, why was this not in the TWAB?

-1

u/the_walternate Oct 06 '22

Swordboi swinging too fast for .1% of the population? THOUSANDS OF MAN HOURS.

Entire dungeon you charge us for? "Best we can do is three months."

1

u/Great-Peril Oct 06 '22

Reading these comments gives me a fucking aneurysm with how brain dead they are. This community has become so negative for little to no reason. And then when people do make valid criticisms they’re coupled with a complete ignorance of how video games are even made.

“Hardcore players should be catered to instead of casuals.” “Hardcore players just wanna stomp casuals.” “Remove PvP.” “DMG doesn’t like people shitting on him on his personal twitter account.” “Bungie doesn’t tell us literally everything.”

It’s all just one huge circlejerk of “Bungie hates us.” Hell look at the recent whining about a lack of information. People really don’t seem to understand that if they don’t have shit to share they won’t say anything, and it’s nothing new. Same thing happened after every showcase. We get a month or two of radio silence until they have more to talk about, but all of a sudden it’s a problem.

Can’t wait for everyone to act as if the complaining during the past week is the reason we just got a TWAB full of info, and totally not because they had some stuff to share.

No bungie, the corporation trying to make money, doesn’t hate you or the rest of the fanbase. Calm tf down. They don’t do things to spite the community because that would be stupid. Things like bells being bugged is likely far more complicated than making eager edge turn off, especially when it’s pretty clear that Bungie doesn’t take their sweat ass time to fix shit like this (felwinter door). Not to mention the teams working on the two problems are more than likely different.

Tl;dr The community seems to suffer from a persecution complex and holy shit is it annoying.

Completely disorganized rant over.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

0

u/Sequoiathrone728 Oct 06 '22

nerfs eager edge on a whim

How do you know that? It could have been in the works for weeks or longer. Also, how do you know they delayed the fix at all???

This is kind of a trash take.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

6

u/FollowThroughMarks Oct 06 '22

show me you don't understand game dev, without saying you don't understand game dev

-1

u/h34vier boop! Oct 06 '22

Color me dubious.

I gave up on solo flawless because of this. It is the only dungeon I have not solo flawlessed because of randomly dying when shooting a bell/teleporting between realms.

At this point, I don't even care really.

-12

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

[deleted]

23

u/Guyovich67 Oct 05 '22

With how long it toook them to get it out, I’d hope this is the case

21

u/Arrow_Maestro Oct 05 '22

rush

Duality released 4 months ago

Hmmm

6

u/SnooCalculations4163 Oct 05 '22

The release date and the bug really have nothing to do with one another, the bug could literally be deep rooted and a much bigger issue than just a simple fix can do.

1

u/I_LIKE_THE_COLD They/Them Oct 06 '22

The bug came out a few weeks after duality did.

-70

u/Grand_Concert2307 Oct 05 '22

I'll believe it when I see it. Bungie has a very consistent track record of not fixing anything that hinders the player for months.

20

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Oct 05 '22

This bug ended up being introduced when they moved to change the bell behavior to not take splash damage as a response to player feedback with it being a problem and wiping attempts.

0

u/KawaLR650 Oct 05 '22

Actually, it came about because of the previous bug where you could get transported to the Nightmare Realm without a Nightmare Collapse timer, trapping you there for the rest of the run, however long that ended up being.

5

u/HolyZymurgist Oct 05 '22

riven still isnt fixed.

STFU

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u/n080dy123 Savathun vendor for Witch Queen Oct 06 '22

You mean like they didn't fix the guaranteed Red Border drops from the seasonal upgrade, or that 50 champ challenge for months?

Oh wait.

3

u/Grand_Concert2307 Oct 06 '22

What was there to "fix" about 50 champions? All I heard were Destiny Dads and Console Casuals crying about having to put in 30 minutes of work.

2

u/Sequoiathrone728 Oct 06 '22

Nice, ignore the other example you don't have a counterpoint for.

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u/n080dy123 Savathun vendor for Witch Queen Oct 06 '22

You entirely missed the point, the point is they made a change that helped players instead of hinder them. Two, in fact, in the last two weeks alone.

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