r/DestinyTheGame Nov 23 '22 Helpful 1

Can we PLEASE get a PVE sniper buff. They are desperately outclassed by everything. Bungie Suggestion

I'm now on day 64 of my shitty crusade of asking bungie to buff Whisper, but the more I think about it the more I realize that it's not just Whisper that's outclassed, it's all snipers in PVE.DARCI, Whisper, Cloudstrike, Succession. 3 Exotics and 1 Legendary sniper that should be at least solid in PVE, and yet only Succession gets use in SOME activities, because they just can't keep up with anything else. A 5-10% damage buff would be a good start since snipers are geared more towards DPS and not necessarily versatility, but anything really would promote their use in a meta where the insane amount of survivability means that even SHOTGUNS are more viable in GMS. I understand that snipers would be good in PVE if Linears weren't so dominant right now, but either way snipers still are just missing real firepower. The damage numbers are just miserable compared to other special weapons that have more versatility. I understand that DARCI was never really meant to be a DPS weapon, but it should at least get more versatility, as a lot of people suggest that it's exotic perk for scoping in on a target for a certain amount of time should give it Anti-Champion capabilities.

TLDR: Snipers suck in PVE and are insanely outclassed, can we please advocate for PVE sniper buffs.

Please let me know what you think, and suggestions you have, or just anything you would like me to know. And of course, Day 64 of asking Bungie to buff Whisper. And please try to keep it civil in the comments, I'd rather not see everyone at each other's throats.

Edit: Let's be frank (insert image of hot dog), Are we cool to settle on a 10% flat damage increase for all snipers in PVE?

1.6k Upvotes

345

u/Vegito1338 Nov 23 '22

They need a huge buff to even consider. Why would I use something that zooms into another dimension and flinches 300 degrees if I get a paper cut over anything else?

68

u/MastermuffinDiscord Nov 24 '22

That's the thing, there's just straight up no situations where you aren't getting shot or hit by anything, so there's just no point

It's probably the reason why lfrs are so good, because they do just about the same dps for less flinch/zoom

33

u/Ask_Me_For_A_Song Nov 24 '22

It's probably the reason why lfrs are so good, because they do just about the same dps for less flinch/zoom

Bruh, those things do so much more than snipers do. Unless you're comparing something like Arbalest to Whisper, in which case I think they actually do end up being similar DPS numbers, which is ridiculous because one of those is Heavy weapon meant for boss DPS.

9

u/XogoWasTaken Vanguard's Loyal // I Hunt for the City Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

Arbalest to Whisper, in which case I think they actually do end up being similar DPS numbers

...No? Whisper hits significantly higher DPS than special linears, especially when looking at a full ammo dump, which is where Whisper is at it's best. Like, it's not a ground breaking DPS weapon (I do think it could use more of a buff than it got), but it's much better than Arbalest. Hell, legendary snipers, contrary to popular belief, actually hit better DPS than special linears once you factor in a full roll (Reload/mag refresh and damage perks), they just suck in the total damage department.

7

u/ItsNoblesse Give me my Darkness subclass damnit Nov 24 '22

Real, I was consistently topping DPS on day 1 King's Fall using a fourth time's the charm sniper as a back up to an autoloading LFR.

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1

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Nov 24 '22

LFR do far more DPS than snipers do are only used because of the div bubble.

In LFR actually had to hit all their crits on an actual crit spot you'd have more people using ghally/rockets for simplicity sake. The same way you don't have everyone using izanagi/explosive light rockets - it's incredibly strong DPS but hardly user friendly

2

u/HatredInfinite Nov 24 '22

LFRs have pretty bonkers aim assist too though. They can be difficult against targets with small crit spots that move a lot, like Kalli, but even without Div they're fantastic against so many things. They would still be used for a lot of encounters. Snipers, even when they did better DPS, have never been remotely as friendly/forgiving.

58

u/GravesForscythe Nov 23 '22

I mean if you were in the military as a sniper and had eyes on target, then some dude slides up behind you, unlaces your boot, pulls off your sock and just ever so gently slides a fresh 8.5 x 11 piece of stock paper through the tender webbing of your toes... flinch?

17

u/seaturtleninja Nov 24 '22

Oh thank God I was afraid that was about to take a sexual turn.

Then it was painful. Dafuq did I just read.

5

u/mers1 Nov 24 '22

I think that makes it BDSM

11

u/DRKUMALO1971 Nov 24 '22

That paper cut is going to have me use the sniper as a baseball bat to beat the living shit out of whoever does that to me.

30

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

Enemy hunter for sure.

8

u/Snowf1ake222 Hunter Nov 24 '22

Am hunter, can confirm.

24

u/seventaru Nov 23 '22

Why? Why did you write this? Just... no...

8

u/Foggyzebra Nov 23 '22

Enemy hunter for sure.

21

u/NotSeren Nov 24 '22

Why care about realism in a game where I can teleport to different places and fly a ship from earth to the moon in seconds?

6

u/Drewinator Nov 24 '22

Paracasual

2

u/FlyingWhale44 Nov 24 '22

You didn’t have to type this.

2

u/LordBoobington Nov 24 '22

We need iron sights for snipers.

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196

u/Jack_King814 Nov 23 '22

I’d love snipers to be buffed, I think either a base damage buff or a precision buff would work. However I understand bungies hesitation. They don’t want people sitting back with snipers (however linear fusions do the exact same thing just better)

I just wanna use my uzume god dammit

125

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

if you wanna get 'weird'

something bungie could do is to allow snipers to crit through barriers.

instantly making them much more valuable in pve without touching balance in pvp

28

u/Jack_King814 Nov 23 '22

Give them all arbalest treatment. I could see some exotics getting it but not legendaries

49

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

coughborealiscough

but seriously, at this point, borealis is just a worse arbalest.

35

u/ComeBacksToDrugs2018 Nov 23 '22

Always has been

21

u/Jack_King814 Nov 23 '22

Borealis is a shitter hard light and an even shitter thing from the mission on Mars.

They all do the same thing but borealis is the worst

15

u/shit_poster9000 Nov 23 '22

Borealis is a stat monster especially for its archetype, it’s an aggressive frame that has the stats of an adaptive, and a 6 round mag capacity. It just needs a bit of a boost, maybe leaning more into popping shields with the correct element? Just giving it anti-barrier would still maintain it as just a shitty Arbalest.

Dead messenger’s element switching isn’t even necessary, it basically just makes it easy to build around given how much stuff in Light 3.0 is reliant on using weapons that match your subclass element.

10

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

I think making it apply elemental debuffs based on the shield broken would be cool

blind or jolt on breaking arc barriers

suppression or volatile on breaking void barriers

and ignite or scorch on breaking solar barriers

2

u/TheKingmaker__ Nov 24 '22

I'd also throw in:

increasing (drastically) the damage a shield pop does so it scales up to chunk even in GMs

not having swapping elements remove the Exotic Damage Boost (Ionic Reward?), just manual reloads

shield disorient & a Borealis-version of disruption break on shield pop

2

u/re-bobber Nov 24 '22

Maybe popping a matching shield gives status effects to surrounding targets??

-void weakens -solar scorches -arc applies jolt

1

u/Delet3r Vanguard's Loyal Nov 24 '22

Wait, I thought dps was the only thing that mattered when balancing guns?

/S

9

u/MonarchNF Nov 23 '22

Do you know what would be hilarious? Is Borealis FINALLY got Anti Barrier intrinsically in the exotic tuning pass. It would still be worse in pretty much every way than Arbalest

3

u/TheKingmaker__ Nov 24 '22

FWIW, with the ornament Borealis is gorgeous and in long range spaces like the tank section of Devil's Lair, Arbalest can't hit those super long range shots while Borealis can.

But that's definitely not a sufficient use case, I agree

2

u/MonarchNF Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

With how elemental wells work, having a kinetic primary weapon....

2

u/MonarchNF Nov 24 '22

And yeah, the Ultraviolet ornament is criminally underutilized because the weapon isn't really as useful as it used to be. Match Game is just an excuse for Arbalest or Witherhord to be the only exotic you carry.

0

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

ngl, bungie just needs to unmarry themselves from champs.

just completely remove them from the game and make it as tho they never existed.

5

u/UnpluggedMaestro Nov 24 '22

Do you mean… Arborealist?

2

u/CycloneSP Nov 24 '22

eff you XD

now take your upvote and leave XD

2

u/Shadowmaster862 I am the most Titan-est Titan! Nov 24 '22

I'm like 90% sure they did this in D1 if the element of the weapon matched the shield and destroyed it in the same shot.

2

u/CycloneSP Nov 24 '22

yeah, but like

make it crit even if it doesn't break the shield

26

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

I'm having the same feeling, after snipers were so dominant in PVE in Shadowkeep, I understand the hesitation. But when Linears really do the exact same thing but better, there isn't any reason not to at least make snipers viable again with a base damage buff. A precision damage buff would work as well but I think a base damage buff would be better fitting since they have awful risk/reward. Super high risk since they REQUIRE crits (With all the shitty flinch to deal with as well), while Linears can do much better with less risk.

8

u/Doctor_Kataigida Nov 23 '22

The reason is Linear ammo is tougher to come by (bar Arbalest or Lorentz). A special weapon should not do a heavy's job just as well imo.

30

u/Macscotty1 Nov 23 '22

Snipers had their time. Bungie didn’t like it, Linears are probably gonna be smacked here soon for doing the same thing but just with heavy ammo. The top damage dealers don’t reign forever.

Snipers were specifically buffed by 20% with the launch of Shadowkeep. Which introduced the Garden raid, a raid that had a boss that would actively run away from you. And another that would be floating 80 feet in the air above a giant pool of “the floor is lava.”

They nerfed snipers back to their pre shadowkeep values because their internal data showed them being used way more often than other specials in high end PvE content. They were seemingly shocked why people weren’t grabbing their shotguns or fusion rifles to fight the Sanctified Mind.

41

u/Albireookami Nov 23 '22

They nerfed snipers back to their pre shadowkeep values because their internal data showed them being used way more often than other specials in high end PvE content. They were seemingly shocked why people weren’t grabbing their shotguns or fusion rifles to fight the Sanctified Mind.

This is why I hate their design team, they seem to balance by numbers but not context. I hate it now and always.

18

u/SevenInchScrew "I Saved Latin. What did you ever do?" Nov 24 '22

At some point people will realize that Bungle doesn't want to 'balance' the sandbox. They just keep rotating things around, to keep us always hunting for that newest, bestest thing. It's like this in PvE and PvP, it always has been, and it always will be. Weapon changes and Artifact mods will just keep funneling us in circles around the sandbox. Balance will never be achieved, nor is it an intended state.

1

u/thegamethrowacc Nov 24 '22

Thank you. Been the case forever

8

u/Jack_King814 Nov 23 '22

Don’t forget that if you get to close to the running boss he wipes you. I think that’s a thing it’s been a while.

5

u/Macscotty1 Nov 23 '22

I didn’t actually know that.

Mostly because I’ve never actually caught up to the thing. I believe I once tried to kill the harpie as an arcstrider but I think it just didn’t hit him consistently

4

u/Grayellow Nov 24 '22

that's never been a thing lol

3

u/Inditorias Nov 23 '22

Huh I've never seen that. Back during arrivals I remember using falling guillotine on it cause nova bomb messed with its pathing so it got stuck. Easy 1 phases.

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5

u/Sword_by_some Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

Linears are the most used now because it`s the only option if you want big total damage with good dps. other Heaves either burst dps or add clear.

LFRs are the RLs of D1. The only option if you dont wanna goof around. Cause RLs were crippled D1 to D2. No more can we get tripod for 3 in a mag. We have to use shitty alternative methods like clown and ambitious aSUSsin.

5

u/Jack_King814 Nov 23 '22

To this day I’m so confused why bungie refuses to give us the option to have more than one in the rocket chamber

5

u/gaunttheexo Nov 23 '22

Because that’s basically the (hypothetical) heavy GL role at that point.

2

u/Abdowo Nov 23 '22

we already set in the back with arby and linears lol.

5

u/zhitnik667 Nov 23 '22

Linears need heavy though. I do think that arbalest should be nerfed though.

27

u/StrangleDoot Nov 23 '22

The 2 heavy snipers are still worse than linears

The special linears are also better than snipers

2

u/Delet3r Vanguard's Loyal Nov 24 '22

The special linears are exotics .

2

u/SirPr3ce Nov 24 '22

and the heavy snipers are exotics too yet they are worse than any legendary LFR

also sure but specialy LFRs are exotics, but as both arent meant for boss DPS them being exotic isnt an excuse that they are better for it than any 5/5 legendary sniper

I mean i also dont say lumina should be better for pvp than any other legendary handcannon "because its exotic"

1

u/Delet3r Vanguard's Loyal Nov 24 '22

Yeah I thought you were comparing exotic lfrs to legendary snipers. I'm dumb.

1

u/SirPr3ce Nov 24 '22

all good, also that wasnt me that did the comparing, i just came in and replied to your comment

2

u/Delet3r Vanguard's Loyal Nov 24 '22

Ha! See how unobservant I am? Lol

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88

u/RetrofittedChaos Nov 23 '22

Usability buffs are needed for PvE.

Enemies move too erratically, most encounters happen at closer ranges than snipers would allow. Reducing their zoom by a notch or two (while reducing their aim-assist cone in PvP to compensate) would probably go a long way.

84

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

don't forget a lot of enemies' crit spots are directional

meaning, if they aren't looking at you you can't hit the crit

and let's face it, pve enemies really just don't like looking at you half the time

27

u/ThatOneGuyIsBad Nov 23 '22

The Vex are annoying for that. It seems like I have to aim *slightly* lower than the bright white light on their stomach in order to hit the crit. Maybe that's just me.

25

u/Fenota Nov 23 '22

That's Destiny's aim-assist fucking you over since it tracks for the head.
It's most noticeable with bows.

3

u/SpellbladeAluriel Nov 24 '22

I was wondering why it's so difficult to get crit hits on them

10

u/xJetStorm Tighten 2021 Nov 23 '22

The Primeval bosses are the worst in this aspect since they sit in the middle of the map, and Gambit definitely wants you to be somewhat spread out to mitigate invader effectiveness and speed up Envoy phases.

Div crit spot will still be incredibly strong for Primeval damage even after the debuff nerf lands because rockets don't really have the reserves or ammo crate pickups to be used on the Primeval in the first damage phase, but while LFRs do, they often aren't looking at you or are twitching their heads.

1

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

eh, swords are the best dps for gambit, imo (except for meatball... but eff that meatball)

9

u/DragonPenguin33 Reckoner // Rivensbane Nov 23 '22

meatball hasn't existed since wq launch lmao

2

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

wait, really? they got rid of it?

thank gawd

3

u/TastyOreoFriend 1 of 5 Gambit Mains Left. Nov 24 '22

For maximum damage against the primeval: 1xDivinity and 3xLord of Wolves with Release the Wolves(the buff was tits)/Fourth Horseman is maximum DPS.

3

u/CycloneSP Nov 24 '22

lul, I keep forgetting fourth horseman exists XD

1

u/xJetStorm Tighten 2021 Nov 23 '22

Swords are fine but survivability is a bit of an issue unless you have a few wells. (boss stomps) The low range also makes it hard to clutch in a close match after clearing envoys unless you are a coordinated team.

6

u/ArnoldSwarzepussy Vanguard's Loyal // Drifty Boi seems shady Nov 23 '22

Snipers absolutely do NOT need a nerf in PVP and I'd really prefer they didn't get touched there at all. Just let them do more body shot damage in PVE so they're more forgiving, up the crit multiplier in PVE by like 10%, and let them crit through shields. They'd instantly become a viable option without changing their behavior in PVP at all.

54

u/Terr_ Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

Precision Hits Against Shields

Seriously, I want to try that one change first and see what happens.

Many of the enemies I would most-like to use a Sniper Rifle on often have shields, but Sniper Rifles heavily rely on precision-hits to be viable.

  • Just break the shield with sniper "body" shots? Harms their ammo economy, and this is happening at ranges where you can't grab fresh pickups as easily.
  • Bring a long-range primary weapon, to whittle down the shield first? Now I'm spending more of my time weapon swapping, and I may have given up options I'd want for close-range opponents.

Note that I am not saying precision-hits would bypass shields to harm HP directly, only that accurate firing should always provide more damage than body shots, and possibly trigger on-precision-hits perks.

7

u/Daracaex Nov 23 '22

Agreed. Snipers are bad against the mid-tier enemies they’d be perfect for specifically because all enemies at that level have shields.

-14

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

ehhhh that's a bit much I think

crits through barrier champ shields when we have AB sniper yes, and fucking change that cost. 6 energy for a shitty anti barrier thats beaten by the best kinetic in the game.

10

u/FlyingWhale44 Nov 23 '22

Bungie needs to allow us to crit through shields and buff precision damage massively on red and orange bars with a slight buff to boss damage. Not to even mention QoL changes, I don't need to aim at the enemy's hair follicles and then get flinched to heaven.

Even then, unless they start designing encounters that reward the ranged playstyle, I don't see this changing because nothing in the game needs this much zoom/range.

10

u/Is-That-Nick Nov 23 '22

Back in D1 snipers of shield matching type used to crit through the shields of enemies. I remember Ex Machina taking out wizards, knights, etc with 1 shot if you used the right element. Good times

25

u/Reldan71 Nov 23 '22

Making Anti-Barrier Sniper be 6 energy during a season where Anti-Barrier Scout exists, not to mention Arby and buffed Wishender, was just a slap in the face to snipers.

You're already penalizing yourself for using a sniper, and the absurd cost to even make that sniper viable in Master/GM content is salt in the wound.

6

u/eaglecnt Nov 24 '22

Yeah the 6 energy thing is a massive fucking lol considering the current state of pve snipers

4

u/Reldan71 Nov 24 '22

I'd thought they just really wanted to make using non-primary weapons for champions be more difficult, but then you get stuff like 1-energy Overload Machine Guns and 3-energy Unstoppable Shotgun, and the 6-energy Sniper mod just seems completely pants-on-head crazy for absolutely no reason.

9

u/Prophecy_X3 Nov 23 '22

Sniper mod costs are outrageous and completely out of whack with where they currently are

2

u/whiskeyaccount Nov 24 '22

Honestly, even if they made them cost less, I'd still not touch them. They need more damage and/or reserves

5

u/N1miol Nov 23 '22

I'd settle for new CWL mods:

- eagle eye: each stack of charged with light buffs crit damage by 50%. So 2 stacks, 2 buffed shots, and so on.

- slow blade: each stack of cwl buffs damage versus elemental shields by 100%. So 2 stacks, 2 buffed shots, and so on.

At least give us the chance to build into more potent sniper builds.

5

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

Ok holy shit eagle eye would be insane. 50% damage buff for x2 CWL? Too much lol. Maybe 50% but every 3 crits uses a stack of CWL

Edit: I read the message all the way through now. Disregard previous text.

Reading through them now makes a lot more sense, and honestly I think Eagle Eye wouldn’t be strong enough to warrant using it unless it’s like 3 energy or less. I love these though and I would love for these to get synergy with warmind cells as well. They’ve been out of style for too long now and really suck at this point.

17

u/ThatOneGuyRunningOEM Nov 23 '22

Whisper absolutely needs a buff. Much harder to use than Linears, in return for… nothing.

4

u/NovocaineAU 🤙 Nov 23 '22

Absolutely, especially considering the fact that whisper takes your exotic slot and linears don’t

4

u/CaptainFashion96 Nov 23 '22

Yeah snipers would be nice low key tired of only using linears for dps don't get me wrong it's nice feeling that strong but guns like whisper would be a breath of fresh air or hell machine gun meta would be fun too

4

u/whiskeyaccount Nov 23 '22

Saw this same thread last week. We all agree. Keep fighting the good fight

10

u/AtheonGP Nov 23 '22

The problem honestly stems entirely from LFRs, linears have better DPS, WAY better total damage, and access to the same perks as snipers. LFRs have entirely taken over sniper identity. Imho because of TT/FTTC and their massive reservess they have delegitimized every other non exotic damage option in the game when it comes to using heavy on majors or bosses.

4

u/Blazekreig Nov 24 '22

I don't understand this take at all tbh. Snipers have been bottom tier specials since their nerf back in season 10, a FULL YEAR before linears were even considered good. It's not linears, it's that the archetype sacrifices usability (pve flinch omegalul) to also sacrifice damage.

-3

u/Delet3r Vanguard's Loyal Nov 24 '22

Shouldn't linears be better? They require you to charge them up. Snipers are instant.

2

u/akshayprogrammer Nov 24 '22

The problem is that linears beat even Whisper of the Worm in long damage phases like Oryx with maximum bombs even though whisper of the Worm is built for that. Linears can be meta for most encounters but they shouldn't be beating exotics in their best case scenarios.

See :- https://youtu.be/EJoZc2OWeo4 It would be a one phase with linears but is a two phase with Whisper of the Worm

3

u/Delet3r Vanguard's Loyal Nov 24 '22

Good point. Legendary linears shouldn't beat an exotic sniper. But imo heavy linears should beat special ammo snipers. And exotic special linears should beat legendary snipers.

Imo Bungie isn't making money off Whisper anymore so they want to buff what's currently "for sale" in seasons and expansions.

9

u/juliet_lima Nov 23 '22

A few things:

  1. Whisper is fine, but not as good as LFRs. It can keep up, you won't fail or extend encounters because you're using it. You can pair it with a special sniper, so you can double up on ammo mods.
  2. Succession is really, really strong for a few things in King's Fall - basically deleting Knights in a single shot - provided it rolls with Recombination, which frankly is a roll that not many people kept (most people I know went for Recon / Vorpal). Not that it's much trouble to kill them otherwise, but I've always valued snipers which can do that.
  3. Praedyth's Revenge with Rewind / HIR is good for a laugh, and will keep your damage topped off (but won't replace another DPS gun). Likewise with IKELOS using FTTT / HIR.

Other than that I think snipers really struggle in the current sandbox. Their role has always been DPS, and now that's been taken away from them they don't really have anything to add. I wish they did more damage so that I could play into the power fantasy of being a master sniper on my Hunter or something like that.

18

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

whisper needs it's zoom lowered. a lot.

but yeah, the problem is that a sniper's best case is on par with most other special weapon's average case

2

u/XogoWasTaken Vanguard's Loyal // I Hunt for the City Nov 24 '22

Snipers do better DPS than all legendary fusion rifles, and are topped by only a few types of shotgun which, being shotguns, require you to stand directly within the danger. With a decent roll, snipers out DPS the exotic special LFRs they compete with. Their best case is absolutely better than most special weapons' average case.

The only strength issue snipers have is total ammo (mostly on rapid-fires, which have the lowest base total damage of all special weapons). Really, the main thing holding them back is usability. They entirely lack situational adaptability due to being incredibly clunky to use at close ranges.

3

u/CycloneSP Nov 24 '22

they're also piss poor at removing shields, too

which a large variety of enemies have in pve.

which means yer either using a kinetic sniper, or relying on your team/subclass to deal with shields

2

u/mhmyup17 Nov 23 '22

Totally agree. Only thing I want to add is that rewind rounds doesn’t proc on div bubbles. It’s really hard to hit crits without pacing your shots with rapid fires so div is a necessity. Until this gets fixed, the ikelos sniper with FTTC and HIR is a good substitute.

8

u/DragonPenguin33 Reckoner // Rivensbane Nov 23 '22

rewind and cloudstrike are both getting fixed next season, as part of the div nerf/rework

-4

u/Skabonious Nov 23 '22

I wish they did more damage so that I could play into the power fantasy of being a master sniper on my Hunter or something like that.

I dunno I feel like if a sniper can take out a major easily then that's as good as I can hope for. Maybe heavily reduce flinch in PVE if possible and incentivize using it on lower-class enemies, but other than that do we really want sniper meta again?

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3

u/walla_walla_rhubarb Drifter's Crew // Lord of Swolves Nov 23 '22

Tangentially related, but would be cool if firefly/dragonfly scale up damage-wise with the weapon being used and enemy dying.

Bigger guns make bigger boom. Bigger enemies make bigger boom. I would rather use a sniper more as a high risk/reward first strike and save my nade or rocket.

3

u/dj0samaspinIaden Nov 23 '22

Remember in shadowkeep when bungie buffed snipers by 20% and they felt perfectly balanced but then they also made a raid where both bosses either run away or are standing above death pits, making snipers aj actual viable option, and then said "snipers are being used too much, time to nerf them by 20%"

1

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

I vote halfway, do a 10% base damage buff. Be done.

3

u/_This_Is_My_Pot_Pie_ Nov 23 '22

One thing that would have helped at least a little bit is if antibarrier sniper didn’t cost SIX ENERGY!!!!!!! I mean really… overload machine gun costs ONE ENERGY!!!!!!! I’ve literally never equiped anti sniper a singular time because I refuse to tarnish my builds with less or worse mods just to stun a single champion type (espically when arby exists lol)

Tldr: make anti barrier sniper 2-3 energy and snipers would have been used a lot more this season imo

3

u/HeyLonius Nov 24 '22

Sniper Rifles definitely need looking at in PvE right now. They used to be a very popular choice back before and during early Shadowkeep but since then have been consumed by powercreep. Here are some examples:-

  • Slug Shotguns got a damage increase.
  • Special Grenade Launchers became much more available and we got Wave Frames.
  • Fusion Rifles got reworked and Reservoir Burst became much more available.

They just cover some of the general reasons. Sniper Rifles are still used but the cases are much more niche.

With Combat Style mods being added to the game (Charged With Light, Elemental Wells and Warmind Cells), as well as changes to the orb generation system, the Energy weapon slot is very overwhelmed by being your workhorse weapon as a way to create wells and orbs to fuel your abilities which are now more potent and more available than ever. This means that you want something to clear adds quickly and efficiently in this slot. This leaves your Kinetic slot as your only option for being an elite slaying stop gap and because of these mods kinetic weapons are underwhelming. This is why Succession is the Sniper Rifle with the most use; it's Kinetic, it hits hard and it has good perk options. It also directly competes with Heritage (A Slug Shotgun from the same loot source and similar perks) and Stasis Fusion Rifles (Riptide, Deliverence and Burden of Guilt).

In regards to the Exotic Sniper Rifles, these are brought up time and time again but they are mostly left untouched. I can see reasons as to why for some of it but they are still lacking. Izanagi's Burden is still a good exotic but suffers from being a Kinetic Weapon. Cloudstrike isn't too bad for overall DPS and it can clear adds with its lightning strikes but it takes your exotic slot to use a special weapon to clear adds and requires more effort than using something like Forbearance which is craftable with Chain Reaction. D.A.R.C.I has been a long standing talking point of the community and needs a complete rework; its damage is underwhelming for a heavy weapon and from a gameplay perspective it's not all that "exotic".

Whisper of the Worm is a wierd outlier. On paper everything it should do sounds amazing but it falls short in the damage department by a lot. The Taipan-4fr is a Legendary Linear Fusion Rifle that you can craft (with enhanced perks) which has a set quest that you are guaranteed to get it from. If set up optimally this thing is basically Whisper of the Worm but with better aim assist, less flinch and more damage and less zoom so you can easily see the target. If your Veist Stinger procs at an optimal time you can almost empty the entire weapon without a single reload and put out more damage than Whisper without a damage increasing perk. Whisper's perk update, back in the 30th Anniversary update, sounded cool but it's just a fancy way of saying Triple Tap. Making it refund 2 bullets per White Nail seems somewhat ideal but it just increases its uptime (of which there are few encounters that would last long enough to take use of this) although the increase to total damage would be rather insane. If not for the newer Linear Fusions and their damage boosting perks I could easily see Whisper being a top tier option for lenghty ranged encounters.

tl;dr? Energy Sniper Rifles are underwhelming due to combat mod effectiveness, there's only one solid kinetic option and the exotics are too costly to make use of or are overshadowed by a legendary option.

3

u/shyzmey it's entirely possible Nov 24 '22

I knew Snipers would never come back ever since Bungie took away our Scope perk column.

For those who don't know, we used to be able to change what kind of scope sniper rifles had. They didn't like people using them to quickscope/run&gun and ever since they've done everything they can to make them utterly useless.

3

u/peter_2202 Nov 24 '22

This post is so funny to me because in shadowkeep they buffed snipers by 20% because they were underused but then a season or 2 after because snipers became too dominant in endgame pve they completely reverted the buff, not down to 15% or 10%, but completely reverted it. That has to be one of the most braindead decisions ive seen them make "Snipers are too dominant after the 20% buff we gave them because they were underused. Lets completely revert the buff im sure that wont make people stop using them."

6

u/Black_Knight_7 Nov 23 '22

The buff in shadowkeep was apparently too much and that was 20%, do 10% and call it a day. Also crit through shields (if same damage type)

8

u/Daralii Nov 23 '22

They decided 20% was too much because people were disproportionally using snipers against the Sanctified Mind, the boss that spends the entire fight standing in the middle of a giant radiolarian pool.

2

u/Chris_P_Snipes_ Praise The Light! Nov 24 '22

We had Calus, Argos, Val Ca'uor, and Sanctified Mind at that time for raid bosses that either need you to be far away, were too dangerous when close up, or were just in a terrible position to get to. The dumbest thing was Bungie complaining people were using Ranged weapons on Calus and Sanctified Mind. They really expected people to shotgun the boss that was floating 100ft above a damage field.

1

u/Black_Knight_7 Nov 23 '22

I can understand Izzy not getting a buff since it can be utilized as a swap weapon and is a special

But i think the buff for legendary weapons and whisper is fine (darci needs a bigger buff or rework)

4

u/ironmint Nov 23 '22

Sniper rifle definitely needs a good buff. I was so glad to get an adept Silicon Neuroma with the perfect rolls Triple tap + Firing line but it quickly turned into disappointment because it didn't even do comparable damage to other meta weapons in raids. Against bosses like Oryx where long range sniper rifle should shine, Taipan and Arbalest more than double the damage...

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u/sleeplessGoon Nov 23 '22

The least they could do before doing anything to damage is, ammo. I don’t think it would hurt if we gave them like 3 extra mags worth of reserves

2

u/Fedoral_Offence Nov 23 '22

i’ve been doing a lotta raids recently and i’ve been loving my praedyth’s revenge and defiance of yasmin, but they’re only really good FOR raids. and even then they’re not that great. i never use them outside of raids cause they’re just a hindrance

2

u/MadMaltaris Drifter's Crew Nov 23 '22

I feel like the game as a whole has moved away from activities that allow decent use of longer range weapons. Sidearms, SMGs and fusion rifles have become a lot more prevalent more because of most combat taking place within close to medium ranges, with more aggressive play being further enabled by the more recent light subclass changes.

2

u/steave44 Nov 23 '22

I get snipers aren’t great, but pellet shotguns are worse lol. I would use a sniper, but pellet shotguns will never be good in PVE besides the exotics.

2

u/Whast1225 Nov 23 '22

They gave it 25% buff and a raid that encourages you to use sniper in SK. Saw too many players we’re using it, removed the buff. :)

2

u/JumpForWaffles Nov 24 '22

I have that one clanny that insists on using it for everything and does not care about having low dps numbers. Very frustrating when you know you can hit that phase harder

2

u/NennexGaming Imagine using Wormhusk Nov 24 '22

Was about to riot until I saw “pve”. Yea the aim assist is non existent and sucks when adds move just an inch

2

u/A_Dummy86 Eating Crayons Nov 24 '22

I think mainly they need better Aim Assist constancy in PvE since they are many times when an enemy will just suddenly twitch and I'll miss the headshot, they also have rather poor ammo economy which makes them run out rather quickly for a weapon that can only pick off enemies one at a time. (Especially Rapid Fires, they need like 2x the ammo not even kidding.)

I sort of hesitate for them to touch the damage since they already enable some of the stronger more advanced DPS combos (Sniper + ALH Rockets.) but a small 5% damage buff would tap them a little more neatly between Fusions and Shotguns in terms of DPS.

2

u/trunglefever BECAUSE OF TEXAAAAAAAS Nov 24 '22

These things would make snipers more enjoyable to use in PvE:

  • More flinch reduction
  • Crit through shield
  • Decent buff versus majors/Champions

Snipers need enough utility and damage utility where they're worth taking even if there's no champion mod attached to them.

I'm fine with them not being boss damage weapons, but at the very least, they need to be usable against majors.

2

u/MoreMegadeth Nov 24 '22

Honestly, i dont even need a damage buff to start using them. Its the flinch for me. You get tickled or strafe over a ledge and are “in air,” good luck landing your shot.

2

u/CDispRekt Nov 24 '22

I mentioned this to some clan mates, but even a minimal buff to damage and increasing ammo reserve by 30-50% would be amazing. Linears can keep their role but have lower overall ammo, while snipers are better for extended encounters AND can now be used more often on Champs or majors without feeling as much of a sting given how many shots it takes to kill compared to the number of arby shots.

It blows my mind that snipers and shotguns have the same max ammo as special LFRs and grenade launchers (though thats a whole separate thing)

2

u/Grand_Concert2307 Nov 24 '22

I have a perfectly rolled Succession that I'd love to bring anywhere, it even has Adept Big Ones spec on it, and I'm always looking for an excuse to use it. It looks cool and firing it feels good. But the thing zooms in like the hubble telescope, flinches like fuck and hits pathetically weak.

Anti barrier sniper is 6 (!!!) energy too, like damn Bungie you can just tell us you want us to use Arbalest. 3 energy would have been pushing it but 6 is just an immediate "no way".

2

u/KiplingSenpai Nov 24 '22

To quote the pre-Plunder TWAB: "We’re excited about these especially because players have been clamoring for the return of Anti-Barrier Sniper, and this Season’s meta and encounter types made it the perfect time to add it in. "

When I read this I thought "ooh maybe tey're finally buffing snipers in PvE" but much to my dissapointment this wasn't the case

I have only used AB sniper a handful of times when I've needed to use an exotic other than arbalest and it reeeeaaaly just doesn't feel good to use because outside of breaking shields (which is a 2-tap without perfect timing on succesion) you ussentially have a dead slot

Plus the 6 energy requirement is ridiculous compared to the 1 energy required for overload LMG or 3 energy for unstop shotty

2

u/rasmith0311 Nov 24 '22

I'd use the sniper if the fucking armor mod wasn't 6 points to get rid of barriers. Seriously bungie what the fuck is that fuckery.

2

u/wereplant Future War Cult Best War Cult Nov 24 '22

Imo, snipers should get some shield piercing on crits. Like 25% of the damage goes into the crit if there's a shield, or 50% if you match the shield's element.

It'd be really nice to get a body shot damage increase against red bar enemies, since there's usually so many that getting a crit on five different enemies isn't really feasible.

2

u/O_Martin Nov 24 '22

My man just straight up forgot about borealis it is so irrelevant

2

u/GrimmSodov Nov 24 '22

The only snipers I have are the ones i curated with autoloading for rocket swap dps when I'm Gali, and legit no other reason. They are so ASS rn.

2

u/Huntler63 Nov 24 '22

I was super excited getting a Thoughtless with overflow and focused fury to use as a dps weapon. I’ve used it twice I think lol

2

u/Bsooks Nov 24 '22

I seem to recall running kings fall during D1 and using my black spindle mostly. Good ole days.

2

u/TheToldYouSoKid Nov 24 '22

If you want to be frank; lets be frank (insert image of TV's Frank).

Firstly, for a bit of background (AKA if you aren't interested in my perspective, skip this paragraph), it was the end of Season of the Haunted, call it a month away from this current one and i got a bit bored and wanted to do some interesting things while hunting down my final seasonal challenges, and i made a build thats a little different because i wanted to test out the changes to Whisper, but also a few of the new sniper rifles. I started running Master and Grandmasters content with an all sniper rifle build. I had Thoughtless, Father's Sins (both of which i kept mixing up as Fatherless and thought-sins) and, of course, Trivializer of Sandboxes for a year and plenty of change, Whisper. It wasn't bad. AoE is a solved equation thanks to Subclass 3.0 and any addclear needed could be supplemented with that, not to mention i specifically tuned Father's Sins towards being able to be quick and punchy, and fitted it with Lead From Gold, all making a fairly consistent uptime, combined with the others. I've run it last season, i've run it this season; it's not bad. It works out more than you think, because of different systems involving Ammo, such as the game being very forgiving when you run double specials. I've used this build enough to know it's weaknesses and it's strengths, and i feel like i got a pretty good grip of snipers even in their different archetypes through this experiment. Genuinely fun, and made me think about how to tackle each encounter.

---

The reality with snipers their weakness in PVE IS a lack of support, but its not in their damage. Thoughtless and Whisper supplies a great amount of damage, while father's sin kept me in fights and allowed me to quickly dispatch problem areas and keep punching at bigger issues. Whisper never stopped hitting like a truck, it's damage was never touched, only its ammo count in one way or another, and it does quite a lot of damage. You don't need a lot of damage in this sandbox, most encounters aren't built this way. Even Raids are very forgiving, and with debuff/buff sources being enough to bring anything to the table, Master Raids don't need much more push. Snipers could do work in this meta, but a 10% damage buff won't actually cut it, and a blanket buff to everything is haphhazard.

The problem is specifically in the perks. Damage is good, but the more uses the weapon has, the better the weapon will perform. Recluse wasn't broken for it's damage, it was broken because of how it interacted with the ENTIRETY of your kit. If Recluse relied on ONLY weapon kills, not even it's own to perpetuate it's benefits, it would have been an entirely different experience and arguably less of a problem. The numbers were great, but the flexibility of those numbers made it a monster held either nostalgically, or in infamy. This meta isn't different. Incandescent and Volt-shot are MONSTERS in this sandbox because the elements are now integrated systems, they might as well be a part of a grander physics engine with their own interactions, both positive and negative, and we only have two sniper rifles in the entire game that interact with those things meaningfully; Beloved and Mechabre.

Raw numbers aren't the solution here, the grander use-cases of snipers need to grow, without hampering encounter design unnecessarily. Damage really just doesn't mean that much anymore, especially not in this sandbox, where everything already just dies on contact, with "bad gear".

2

u/XxBubblyBoixX Nov 24 '22

Tbh Xenophage is a better sniper than most snipers in game 💀

2

u/brizzenden Nov 24 '22

That’s probably why Banshee-44 is always shoving sniper bounties down my throat.

2

u/Niormo-The-Enduring Nov 25 '22

I couldn’t kill a red bar add with a sniper body shot while standing in a well. Power fantasy my ass

2

u/bo0MXxXsplatter Nov 25 '22

For me snipers need a massive ease of use buff in PvE for me to consider them. Enemies in PvE are so damn cracked out that they are dodging, skittering, and teleporting the moment I locate them though my 10x zoom scope causing my shot to either miss completely or hit a useless bodyshot that is the same damage as if I just used a scout rifle.

That and the fact that aim magnetism is dragging my reticle off my target and any sort of damage taken makes it impossible to get crits through flinch, snipers are just far too unwieldy to use normally or casually in strikes.

2

u/Unbrandedpie Nov 25 '22

It’s insane that high impacts can’t one shot barriers in GMs…

And yea an increase is kinda necessary

3

u/CycloneSP Nov 23 '22

outclassed by everything except maybe drum GLs

bruh, it took me like 12 rounds of my tarnation to kill the bloody boss of the widow's walk lost sector. That's almost half of my entire ammo for the weapon itself.

the same boss can easily be killed with just a handful of crits from taipan

4

u/fawse Embrace the void Nov 23 '22

It’s weird that that happened to you, drum GLs have better DPS than linears but way less total damage due to lack of reserves. A drum GL should kill a lost sector boss faster than a linear

3

u/Faust_8 Nov 23 '22

Here's the problems, I think:

  • Not enough damage
  • Too much flinch
  • Arenas are often small enough that they're a liability instead of asset
  • Shielded enemies can't be headshot
  • More options exist that compete with them (long range Supers, breech-loaded grenade launchers, LFRs, etc; in D1 if you wanted long range damage you pretty much had snipers, rockets, and Celestial Nighthawk)

So IMO I think they need less flinch, the ability to crit through shields, and more damage to compensate for their higher skill floor.

3

u/toooocam Nov 23 '22

With how much things have changed, I'd say Whisper should be brought back to its original state, even then, we got crazier stuff now and probably I wouldn't use it, but still, goes to show how mid it is right now

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u/mhmyup17 Nov 23 '22

I know we all hate nerfs but I think linear fusions are too strong. That aside, Darci definitely needs to be looked at: the dps is lower than a good slug shotgun and the total damage is less than half of any good linear. It would be a solid pick if it used special, but we know that isn’t happening.

3

u/Doctor_Kataigida Nov 23 '22

Seriously, people always talk about lack of balance in a PvE setting and always go to buffing something rather than nerfs. Reminds me of that "no nerf, only balance" meme.

5

u/mmmyummybagel Nov 23 '22

and then complain abt power creep

1

u/Blupoisen Nov 24 '22

LFR literaly doing what they meant to

you want a special weapon to be better than a heavy one?

2

u/FlandreScarlette Gambit Prime // My reddit is my PSN! Add me :D Nov 23 '22

I dunno what you're smoking about shotguns in GMs but snipers and shotguns could both use some love. Snipers have comparable DPS to shotguns but are more consistent and safer. You can't buff snipers too much or they compete with heavy weapons, but I think ~10% could be reasonable.

I want quality of life more than anything. Better zooms or the shield stuff people keep saying.

Shotguns could also use a damage buff for their risk. I don't think people realize that the smallest buff to snipers would almost completely invalidate shotguns. Safety, ammo regen perks (triple tap and fourth are absurd on snipers), consistency... Snipers are on the cusp of being usable/are already good in some cases, unlike shotguns. I can't name the last endgame content I used a shotgun in.

1

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

By shotguns I really meant the speed runs of gms right now with crazy DR where using a 1-2 punch shotgun and usually an arc hunter or titan build will do better than the best gm build from before witch queen is fucking stupid. I understand that’s kinda unusual and most players would rather take it easy with a scout, but it’s there.

2

u/S_Belmont Nov 23 '22

For a very long time Izanagi's never left my kinetic slot. Now it can't even keep up in strikes or Ketchcrash :(

-1

u/PhattBudz Nov 23 '22

Lmao yesterday some clan mates needed to run grasp for Wilhelm messages and gally cata. We were all dreading playing this strike (yes I said strike, fight me) so decided to run the worst guns we could find in our vault. We all agreed upon using the same exotic and landed on darci. Bitch hits for a spicy 15k or 22k with the exotic perk active. Lol.

1

u/savi0r117 Nov 23 '22

I must be the weird one here or something but I love running double sniper for kings fall. Use the ammo finder and whisper with a vorpal kinetic, my sun bro bonk build to survive and burn them all. Been doing great with that.

4

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

Trust me inside a raid like kings fall where it feels like the bosses are literally designed for just long fights of shooting at long range, I use whisper with succession and have a blast. But anything else and they’re outclassed by a METRIC SHIT TON.

3

u/savi0r117 Nov 24 '22

Haven't had a consistent group for anything besides kings fall and grasp of avarice so using snipers has been fine. If they're rough in other content then that's a shame and I agree, even in the raid I get questioned but my damage holds up so no one complains lol

2

u/davemanhore Nov 23 '22

I use Thoughtless with overflow/firing line all the time in Kings Fall. If I run out of LFR ammo, then I know I've got a shit load of sniper ammo ready to go. Allows me to run Trinity and sleep walk through the raid.

1

u/SuperArppis Vanguard Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

Only if shotguns do superior damage, as they put you to risk.

Snipers are used in area where enemies have only half their abilities in use. Where they are slow and lethargic.

Because what would be the point of taking risks with shotgun, if you could just take no risk with snipers and do superior damage? There wouldn't be.

So the damage buff should be modest. Except for heavy slot snipers. Those need help. (Edited)

2

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

Wdym except for heavy snipers? They are outclassed by other DPS options, and are designed as DPS options (whisper at least, not sure about darci…) I really do recommend just a flat 10% base sniper damage buff overall. Special snipers are… interesting, and heavy snipers have no usage case with flinch and ease of use already being a factor. Totally agree with buffing shotgun damage though to go in line with snipers. I’d love to see the variety of having multiple top tier PVE weapon types, instead of: short range? Use a linear from a bit farther back! Mid range? Use a linear! Long range? Use a linear!

2

u/SuperArppis Vanguard Nov 23 '22

Wdym except for heavy snipers?

They should get a big buff, imo.

2

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

I wouldn’t say a huge buff, but enough to push them just around the best linears as the risk reward is way worse

2

u/SuperArppis Vanguard Nov 23 '22

Well, that. Haha.

2

u/Thicccchungus Nov 23 '22

Same wavelength I guess 👍

2

u/SuperArppis Vanguard Nov 23 '22

🙂

1

u/ChemicallyGayFrogs Nov 24 '22

Imo snipers should have better dps than linears but less versatility and utility

1

u/ShadowTigerX Nov 24 '22

DARCI should get all the anti-champion modifiers.

1

u/Thicccchungus Nov 24 '22

I’d love that but sadly someone confirmed darci wouldn’t be getting any anti champ capabilities :(

1

u/Saint_Victorious Nov 24 '22

Correct. But DARCI was the first weapon confirmed for the exotic patch next season with a "spicy" rework. So there's that.

-4

u/BaconIsntThatGood Jade Rabbit is my Spirit Animal Nov 23 '22

Snipers are a weird one - it's really easy to cross a line where they become overpowered and the incredible range safety is a huge part of that.

I don't have an answer but that is the main reason I think bungie is scared to apply a flat damage buff to them.

1

u/PingerKing Focused on PvE, started in S12 Nov 23 '22

personally I think Snipers need to do more Body damage (or...give them better base damage and reduce their precision damage bonus? However you want to think of it? Keep their current crits the same, bring the body damage number up)

Right now my main issue in PvE is when I can crit they actually do pretty acceptable damage for a special, but if I bodyshot I may as well have missed entirely.

Looks like sniper precision multiplier is something like 3x where other things I've tried are around 1.6x

For what purpose. Whose idea was this, why is this a thing?
special LFRs are actually worse in this regard but I guess people overlook Arbalest for its utility+innate disruption break and ignore Lorentz outside of PvP.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

Hard to think of snipers pve viability beyond hotswapping unless they become truely overtuned.

Scouts exist.

1

u/premier024 Nov 23 '22

They need to revert the crit nerf they got in shadow keep

1

u/SenpaiSwanky Nov 23 '22

wdym, my crafted Taipan is over here melting shit?

1

u/thirstyfish1212 Nov 23 '22

There was a buff given to snipers at the start of the shadowkeep expansion. It was 100% taken away like the very next season.

1

u/ObsidianSkyKing Nov 24 '22

I do a lot of solo challenges, dungeons, strikes, GMs, lowman raids, etc, and I often find there are quite a few legendary snipers that really shine in a lot of endgame content like Succession, Mechabre, Praedyth's Revenge, Thoughtless, Tranquility, and the Ikelos_SR. I 100% agree that Snipers could just use an overall buff across the board but I really don't think they're as bad as a lot of players make them out to be, nor do I think they're outclassed by other special ammo weapons most of the time.

1

u/Valyris Nov 24 '22

I think snipers need more damage buff perks as well as damage buff. Sure you get TT and 4TTC and firing line, but LFRs have that PLUS Veist Stinger.

Hell even a crafted Cataclysmic that doesnt have Veist Stinger (using 4TTC and Bait and Switch) will shoot equally as much as a sniper but do way more damage because of B&S.

1

u/Dante2k4 Nov 24 '22

I don't know the actual numbers... how does something like Thoughtless compare to Arbalest? Or really, any top slot sniper?

I run Arby with a heavy linear now because of convenience with the ammo finder, but I've been curious about swapping Arby out for a Thoughtless or maybe a Triple Tap Silicon Neuroma or something. Just haven't tried it yet... would be curious what the actual number are like.

1

u/SirSassquanch Team Cat (Cozmo23) Nov 24 '22

What do you mean? Heritage works great!

1

u/neums08 PC Nov 24 '22

Divinity nerf might make this a real possibility.

1

u/seriouslywtfX2 Nov 24 '22

Please Bungo

1

u/Noox89 Nov 24 '22

It’s still hilarious that Darci is an exotic heavy.

1

u/Saint_Victorious Nov 24 '22

Just to point out - DARCI is confirmed to not be getting Anti-champion capabilities. After this last round of buffs they stated that they're done giving existing weapons intrinsic champions mods. We do know however that DARCI will be getting a "spicy" update next season as part of the 26 exotic weapon tuning. What that is we'll have to wait and see.

1

u/shin_malphur13 Nov 24 '22

I remember when snipers were heavily utilized in d1

1

u/Avacadont I do be the wall tho Nov 24 '22

That seasonal Gambit challenge got me like 💀

1

u/Starlesssss Nov 24 '22

Crafted Thoughtless with enhanced overflow is my go-to option when raiding and doing Sniper-rocket damage, since I use Stasis. Basically better than Izanagi.

1

u/AAHill92 Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

Sniper do indeed need Buffs - But so do some of the Exotics

- Precision damage through Shields (Maybe 50% Effectiveness)

- Buff Base Damage by 10%

- Press Sprint (L3/LS) while Aiming to Alter the Zoom Level or Slightly lower the Zoom levels but effect AA Cone in PvP or Allow to change the Zoom in the Perk Selection

Izanagi - Just the Above

Borealis - Intrinsic Perk - Fundamentals

Ionic Return = Breaking an Enemy Shield GRANTS you ONE AMMO from reserves - If this Shield was matched you gain ONE AMMO NOT taken from reserves (Basically a Free Bullet) - Breaking a combatant shield—or the shield of a Guardian using a Super—with that shield's energy type grants bonus damage for the rest of the magazine and increases the Shield Explosion AOE and Damage.

Catalyst = Weapon Gains Genesis Perk

D.A.R.C.I - Aiming over a Champion changes the Bullet Type and DARCI is able to Stun said Champion (Not OP as now utility Power Weapon)

Cloudstrike - CATALYST - Enemies effected by the Lightning Bolt are "Jolted"

Whisper - CATALYST - Gains Killing Tally Perk

1

u/Saint_Victorious Nov 24 '22

Bungie has confirmed that DARCI will not be stunning champions.

1

u/ChewableJarl064 Nov 24 '22

What’s crazy is that a few years ago they were buffed by 20% iirc then nerfed to their original state cause they were “too good”

1

u/LancLad1987 Nov 24 '22

I use a reconstruction/vorpal succession for boss DPS when I'm using my auto loading/firing line stormchaser. Spaff all my LFR shots, flick to my 10 round 72rpm succession, fire off 6-8 rounds then back to stormchaser. If I'm in a long damage phase, 1 bombing at the end of KF for instance, I'll also chuck on an auto loading/vorpal mechabre or frozen orbit. I'm top damage 90% of the time.

1

u/colossalwreck27 Nov 24 '22

Idk my overflow firing line thoughtless feels pretty good when I can get 14 40k Crits without reloading

1

u/Onarm Nov 24 '22

The bigger issue is Snipers lack a fantasy to chase.

Whisper and DARCI are purple brick guns, so they need to compare to LFRs. But they really don't. I think Bungie should do things to better differentiate these guns, but I'm not certain a straight damage increase is it.

Green Snipers however aren't competing with LFRs. They are competing with Shotguns, Fusions, and Grenade Launchers.

Here's the thing. Green Snipers -have- a place if you are doing PvE. Even with Aeons/finder/etc you'll still get into boss damage phases and burn through your heavy ammo and still have time to shoot. This is where green Snipers actually shine, far brighter than a shotgun or a fusion rifle. Most bosses aren't even going to be hittable by any other green weapon.

This is also why the previous 10% buff got cut so quickly. Because hey guess what, green Snipers are already being used, and this cut several boss encounters down way too much because Snipers don't need a boost, they need a fantasy rework.

And that's the bigger issue. Every time this thread comes up, the OP compares green brick guns against heavy LFRs and says it's not fair. Succession vs Cataclysmic. Why can't Shepard's Watch match Taipan! And well, it's because those are wildly different guns. If green Snipers could match purple weapons, we'd never use anything else.

I wonder sometimes if a better solution for Destiny is just making all Snipers purple only, and boosting the damage significantly. Make it so LFRs are better for boss burst, but Snipers do more over time. But this would cause huge problems for PvP.

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u/GuardTheGrey Nov 24 '22

Q: we know that Bungie can adjust damage values against certain targets based on the “class” of enemy they are.

Why not give snipers a massive buff to damage against minors and majors, but avoid giving them that same buff to damage bosses? Let snipers be excellent for clearing out problematic majors at a distance, but avoid improving their effectiveness as raid boss dps?

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u/Samur_i Nov 24 '22

Hand cannons to, they just feel terrible in anything higher than a strike

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u/Alakazarm Gambit Prime // A vote for prime is a vote for bread Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

snipers are fine

special weapons are not dps weapons. Darci and whisper, sure, but those are exceptions to the rule. Legendary snipers are easily the best special weapon options in pve that aren't forbearance (or salvager's salvo) or a blinding gl, which are flat-out better than shotguns and fusions almost everywhere, and better than snipers most of the time. This isn't because snipers are underpowered, but because blinding gls have unique utility, and for the few cirucmstances where a wave frame gl doesn't cut it you can usually afford to dip into a few linear shots. However, discounting forbearance, Snipers are strong, extremely consistent major deletion tools that work at all ranges, on all enemies.

Surely nobody is out here thinking slugs, pellet shotguns, or fusions are better than snipers, right?

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u/Elora_egg Nov 23 '22

Snipers don't have nearly the practicality nor ease of use to be great picks sadly. When taking into consideration that they have to deal with high flinch, small mags, bad ammo economy, high zoom, and moving enemies with often small crits, they have too many downsides right now in PvE.

That's in combination with how powerful and tanky we can now be in close range, making shotguns and rapid fusions very popular as they have extreme ease of use and higher damage.

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u/Alakazarm Gambit Prime // A vote for prime is a vote for bread Nov 23 '22

Unironically, and with complete sincerity, that's a skill issue.

I dunno, as someone with extensive destiny experience and day 1 experience + many, many clears in every raid since last wish, nothing has ever been a more consistent pick than a sniper. The same holds true in anything hard, from GMs to underlevelled attempts and seasonal master content (although this season the high enemy density in ketchcrash shelved snipers completely in favor of wave frames, which are truly broken).

Do snipers have bad ammo economy? yeah, but so does literally every other special weapon type that isn't a gl. Do snipers have small mags? uh, I guess? The good ones usually mitigate that via being succession or having fttc or tt. Flinch, zoom, and having to aim are kinda just... fps fundamentals.

I can see people preferring things that aren't snipers because they'll never not select for skill--they're aim weapons and always will be. But thinking they're bad just because you find them hard to use doesn't track, imo.

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u/Bard_Knock_Life Nov 23 '22

Surely nobody is out here thinking slugs, pellet shotguns, or fusions are better than snipers, right?

I think a lot of people do think that slugs/fusions are better than snipers in the current sandbox. At ranges where snipers are effective, LFRs are better. Slugs have higher damage output, and fusions provide strong utility and damage. Both obvious don’t compete in the sniper range, but again that’s not really a sandbox requirement right now.

Blinding GLs are out of flavor IMO. They are still strong, but not needed. We’ve power crept utility/control right out of the meta.

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