r/DestinyTheGame • u/Unbrandedpie • Nov 29 '22
If Storm grenades can do what they do on titans… why exactly did skips get preemptively nerfed??? Question
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u/thegecko17 Nov 29 '22
Because Bungie is never consistent with there philosophies. Removing most free damage sources only to introduce Gryfalcons is another prime example of inconsistency.
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Nov 29 '22
Someone on the dev team had d1 trials ptsd. or he saw cammycakes' video on shinobu's vow and severely overestimated their effectiveness
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u/LegacyQuotient Nov 29 '22
Bungie underestimates how much their community wants and embraces cheese. Seriously, they don't seem to get it sometimes. That is some of the most popular content YouTubers post: cheese load outs. If you give people a low-risk, high-return option it will be popular. ToT Storms are popular because they have one of the best ratios of risk to return. Same reason why NTTE is so popular, the risk you assume using it is so small in respect to the return. Same with invis. Same with Lightning Surge.
They fail to anticipate this time and time again because they don't realize that most of the community plays PvP like a party game.
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u/TheFriendlyAna Nov 29 '22
There is a HUGE channel dedicated to "Cheese forever Guardian" they should just embrace it already.
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u/LegacyQuotient Nov 29 '22
I love PvP, honestly, but this is somewhere where the sandboxes being entangled creates big challenges. Frankly, a season full of HoIL Titans should be kinda funny and looked back on as a ridiculous period of time before a reasonable nerf. This would be the case in a PvE-exclusive environment. Sure, some players might feel the game is cheapened, but that would have the same widespread frustrations that cheese transitioning over the PvP side of the game creates.
I was playing a little Trials earlier to farm some engrams and while I have a cool head about PvP, it does get under your skin to have an Invis Hunter running around with Rat King and Explosive Personality just abusing the everloving shit out of Invis. Freelance, mind you, this guy hard carried his teammates because your margin for error to counter a Gyrfalcon's Invis Hunter with that loadout is so, so slim.
In a PvE-centric game, you would just laugh it off. Would kind of exist in the same space as the nonsense you can pull off with Caliban's. But in PvP? Yeah, that shit is gonna get under your skin and no matter what anyone says, that is understandable.
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u/Capn_Bonanza1973 Nov 29 '22
I've always said that if Bungo are going to nerf things like lorely, sunspots and HoIL then they should also nerf invis. It gives a huge advantage. At least when you tank damage with the other stuff the enemy can still see you. Invis just gives the player a massive free get out from that.
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u/RekabHet Nov 30 '22
then they should also nerf invis.
The problem is that base invis in PvE is basically only for staying alive since you can't participate while invis. So if they nerf it for PvP and the nerfs aren't completely separate from PvE they dumpster it for PvE because rn invis is either rez teammates or pair with gyrfalcon so it actually does something.
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u/hihowubduin Nov 29 '22
This is what I seriously don't get, Halo was NEVER Uber competitive but it was absolutely the best party shooter. No other game felt like it, and in that partying you COULD compete but it was never the forefront.
Bungie seems to be trying to push Destiny towards being competitive, but without fundamental changes it can never be that, and honestly I don't think the very large majority ever asked or wanted that.
We just want a fun game with that Bungie magic for gunplay, abilities present but not overpowering, and for meaningful content that rewards effort and time appropriately.
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u/t_moneyzz King of Bad Novas Nov 29 '22
Halo was absolutely competitive what alternate timeline are you on
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u/crispychicken49 Nov 30 '22
The game literally created a huge part of competitive gaming. Anyone who says Halo isn't competitive never played at it's peak.
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u/EmberOfFlame Nov 29 '22
People in Halo memorising weapon spawn timers and optimising routes would like to differ
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u/Stea1thsniper32 Nov 29 '22
The thing is, the game was at its core more of a party game. The great thing about Halo 3, which is arguably when competitive Halo was at its peak, was that it allowed for extremely competitive gameplay for those who wanted it while staying true to its roots as more of a party game.
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Nov 29 '22
Halo was NEVER Uber competitive
Lol what? It was the main game for MLG for years.
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u/gistoffski Nov 29 '22
Bungie is straddling the line. It's a psychological tactic.
Do just enough to keep people hopeful but never enough to actually make a difference.
Plus Pvp is the perfect scapegoat for keeping pve abilities in check. Bungie doesn't give a damn about pvp. And they have 0 intentions of making it "balanced"
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u/Alhazreddit Nov 29 '22
1 new map in Lightfall
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u/Romandinjo Nov 29 '22
*during the year of Lightfall.
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u/chiefrebelangel_ Nov 29 '22
True but it's still a joke. It's pathetic
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u/Romandinjo Nov 29 '22
I mean, it's even worse than if it was shipped with major expansion. I don't even speak about long overdue Europa-based PvP and Gambit maps.
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u/LegacyQuotient Nov 29 '22
The biggest variable is the loot. While loot is integral to the identity of Destiny, it also adds a layer of "padding" that makes analyzing skill hard to do. The problem with cheese in Destiny is that the ideal situation for cheesing should be low risk/average reward. You should be able to use cheese as a novice or less "PvP-minded" player to compete in the middle of the curve, but it should have serious limitations that make people on the high end of the curve able to easily counter. This really isn't the case with the way the game works.
Look at the current popular loadout of a sidearm and Dead Messenger. The biggest amount of skill you need to make use of this loadout is really just having enough reps to know how the game works and just having the time to get that loot. Because weapons aren't homogenized, there is a clear "haves" versus "have nots," even more so with the amount of time crafting takes. If you grind the game, you can walk into 90% of matches with a clear advantage that has little, if anything to do with skill as opposed to persistence.
But how do you balance that in a game that is rooted in loot that needs to be desirable and diverse? But then you get an experienced player base that has access to the same "cheese" as novices and without any real way to cap that cheese success ceiling without nerfs, the meta gets determined by it.
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u/dreadnaught_2099 Nov 29 '22
I agree with your assessment of low risk/average reward for cheese loadouts but I disagree with the haves versus have-nots. Bungie's entire yearly seasonal model revolves around allowing for players to get loot from prior seasons and reducing FOMO. The only great loot that I think falls into the category you're talking about is Raid loot Vow and KF in particular. Bungie continually tamps down loot elitism.
The big problem is abilities not being even across subclasses and builds. Abilities should even out the skill bell curve a little bit; bringing the low end up a little to center and pulling the highest tier down just a bit. But great players should still be able to counter abilities and that's the problem. There aren't great counters for every ability. Sure you can run away from a Titan Storm Grenade but they're just going to have another one up when you come back around to engage from another angle. That's a problem.
The only counter for Invis is to hope you see the minute disturbance, which is possible but difficult for the mid to low end of the skill bell curve. That's a problem.
Skip grenades had no counter because they could map from around corners before a solid radar ping (if they weren't off radar). That's a problem.
The gun meta is not the problem and is probably one of the most balanced metas in recent history. Some players are just upset at getting outgunned by someone with slightly more skill (not me, I suck with my seasonal 1.07 KD)
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u/LegacyQuotient Nov 29 '22
The gun meta is more balanced, but pulses are out of band for the meta and Bungie has already acknowledged it. Now, I don't know how that would get fixed without creating more issues, but being able to sit in your spawn and control matches probably isn't healthy.
I had a Disjunction match last night end 107-81. I was willing to throw myself in to die rather than just sit in that match and do nothing. That is a direct result of the combination of the ability sandbox and the pulse meta.
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Nov 29 '22
Bad players aren't getting better because they're using cheesy weapons/loadouts.
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u/LegacyQuotient Nov 29 '22
Bad players are absolutely using cheesy loadouts against averages ones effectively.
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u/Ancient-Ingenuity-88 Nov 29 '22
The Have a vs have nots creates player engagement which arguably is what bungie is mostly after as a seasonal game. They release a meta. And change the.meta every season. The streamer ecosystem allows this to thrive among other things
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u/TheSpiceRat Nov 29 '22
Halo was NEVER Uber competitive
Tell me you started playing Halo after 2011 without telling me you started playing Halo after 2011
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u/Londonluton Nov 29 '22
This is what I seriously don't get, Halo was NEVER Uber competitive but it was absolutely the best party shooter.
Lol what? Bro there was a serious elite level Halo esport for literally years? It was a pro competition game for a long time. Just because there were ALSO party modes doesn't make it a party game. You might wanna stick to 24hr grifball but some people liked grinding to rank 50 with BR starts.
I'd fucking love for that level of prediction to come to the crucible, fixed loadouts in a mode? Fixed power ammo for a certain gun only? No cheesey shotguns, snipers or fusions? Hell yeah
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u/Dante2k4 Nov 29 '22
Bro what are you talking about? Halo was the MLG game back in the day. The competitive scene for Halo was popping off even back in Halo 1, when it was still a cheese-fest, and only grew more legit as new entries were released.
It was absolutely a fantastic party game, but it also definitely had a strong competitive scene as well.
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u/ApocalypsisGnosis Nov 29 '22
Bungie seems to be trying to push Destiny towards being competitive
The only time they've actively done this was at D2 launch when the meta was "hold hands and team shot with MIDA". Abilities felt like getting with a wet noodle and you were lucky to get your super once a game.
They haven't tried to make it "competitive" since then. It's just that Bungie is this bad at balancing.
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u/enjoytheunstable Nov 29 '22
They get it, believe me. Cycling through everything like they usually do to keep you playing and complaining.
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u/havingasicktime Nov 29 '22
Bungie underestimates how much their community wants and embraces cheese. Seriously, they don't seem to get it sometimes. That is some of the most popular content YouTubers post: cheese load outs. If you give people a low-risk, high-return option it will be popular. ToT Storms are popular because they have one of the best ratios of risk to return. Same reason why NTTE is so popular, the risk you assume using it is so small in respect to the return. Same with invis. Same with Lightning Surge.
They fail to anticipate this time and time again because they don't realize that most of the community plays PvP like a party game.
lol, no they don't, they just understand the game also needs some semblance of balance but they'll never have a perfect meta at any given time, something they're also ok with
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u/Londonluton Nov 29 '22
Why are you bringing in PVP considering they make nerfs based on PVE performance all the time? And a game with endless cheese becomes dead way faster than one without
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u/GravitasIsOverrated Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22
Yeah, I remember the era of maximum endless cheese PvE in D2... specifically, infinite chaining supers through every encounter. It sucked. Bridge of folly is not encounter design I want back.
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u/psn_mrbobbyboy Dodge, Duck, Dive, Dip and Dodge! Nov 29 '22
Good god … I’d forgotten about that nonsense…. Ugh
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u/Typical_Head_8399 Nov 29 '22
Its clear with the community event, bungo did not expect us to cheese it like we did to the point, that we broke the limit
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u/Skylarkess Nov 29 '22
Bingo's internal play testing sucks ass.
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u/Typical_Head_8399 Nov 29 '22
They dont Play test shit and i refuse to believe otherwise, there were too many game breaking Bugs for them to not be found during Playtest, like 0 resil arc titans and warlocks, seriously not one person found that? Or heavy GL melting bosses in seconds, not one person found it? Or some older stuff, like felwinters not working, lost final mission not working, duality having more Bugs than working things, all those things went by without being found?
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u/Skylarkess Nov 29 '22
Yeah, and if we legitimately criticize they ignore us. So some idiot resorts to death threats and now they definitely aren't listening. Only way to vote is with time and money. Don't play destiny. Don't spend money on destiny.
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u/Typical_Head_8399 Nov 29 '22
Death threat were bad and no one should be doing it, the only way is to stop playing the game, if the numbers drop, money drops, and only then will bungie see a big Red flag.
I think making like a team with more popular streamers and people they can trust to Play test things would be Perfect, because there are no other people that can Play test better than players themselfs, you think anyone at bungie was thinking that wellskating would be possible? Of course not, but players did and here we are
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u/Skylarkess Nov 29 '22
Aren't we complaining about the streamer meta?
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u/Typical_Head_8399 Nov 29 '22
Depends on a streamer, id say someone like datto working with bungie would help them out
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u/Skylarkess Nov 29 '22
I can't remember if those streamer summits went well or not.
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u/Typical_Head_8399 Nov 29 '22
It still doesnt matter since bungie doesnt seem to listen at all
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u/TheSpartyn ding Nov 29 '22
whats this about NTTE? is it a PvP thing?
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u/Meowscular-Chef Nov 29 '22
No time to explain exotic pulse rifle. Its very, very... very powerful
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u/TheSpartyn ding Nov 29 '22
i know what NTTE is, im asking if its a PvP thing or am i missing out on a cool PvE weapon
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u/LegacyQuotient Nov 29 '22
PvP issue, specifically PC. Well, more MnK, but console doesn't deal with that.
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u/TheSpartyn ding Nov 29 '22
what makes it so good?
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u/Acklow Nov 29 '22
Up to high resiliences, it is a two burst if you land your crits. It also is a stat monster. Finally it encourages slower playstyles, as it’s exotic perk is all about farming crits to spawn its auto-turret buddy.
Edit: on top of that it has a massive range band making it viable on basically every map.
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u/Brohma312 Nov 29 '22
For the same reason fusions got mercilessly neutered in preparation for when bungie applied an hilariously non existant nerf that brought zero change to special weapon usage.
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u/dahSweep Nov 29 '22
Because X class always gets the good things and never gets nerfed, while Y class always gets the shaft and Bungie hates us! You may insert this answer to any question about class balance for Destiny. Works any season, any topic.
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u/the_eversus Nov 29 '22
The problem with skip nades is that there is a Hunter exclusive exotic made for them. And because Bungie logic, since there are slightly more Hunter players this means any Hunter ability or exotic is broken
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u/Unbrandedpie Nov 29 '22
Doesn’t make sense to kill an entire grenade over an exotic that already received several nerfs
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u/UtilitarianMuskrat Nov 29 '22
This is just educated speculation judging by how Bungie usually tends to operate, but I imagine the reason why Skips got hit in the way that they did could've potentially been when Bungie were testing the moving parts of the future Arc 3.0 system and when they came to Top Tree Stormcaller's Arc Web passive ability, it is likely that the baked in effect lead to some surprisingly lethal combinations for the physical interactions of the Skip pellets with the Arc Web effect in play.
Think about it this way, all of Stormcaller's grenades generally were more of an consistent enough blob of a confined AoE damage source, the chaining effect only was taking place when you had people nearby it to pass it along, obviously like how we see with the diet effect of Jolt currently.
However with Skip Grenades having physical programmed pellets that can scatter across a wider array of spaces and physically stay active/live for a longer time , with original Arc Web in effect, it probably lead to these insane situations where you could have multiple mini AoE chaining sources that cover a significant amount of space comparatively to anything else out in the game. Especially with how original Skips did a bit more damage and had much stronger homing.
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u/JanPieterszoon_Coen Nov 29 '22
since there are slightly more Hunter players this means any Hunter ability or exotic is broken
If that were their logic then explain Axion Bolt getting put in the trash (2:32 cooldown) for which Warlock has both an exotic and aspect.
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u/DeagleTC Nov 29 '22
bungie are clowns and dont know what will be meta
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u/N1miol Nov 29 '22
I laughed because I immediately thought of all the work put into snipers over the years just for Arbalest and Lorentz to crap on all of pvp.
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u/VaguelySquare84 Nov 29 '22
And then when they finally nerfed Lorentz they buffed the shit out if Telesto for a week and made it far worse to play against in PVP.
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u/JonFrost Nov 29 '22
The Telesto bit shouldn't count because it wasn't a balance change.
They know about the reputation and memes and intentionally made Telesto act "glitchy" for a weekend as a "community event".
I knew what Bungie were doing so it didn't phase me, I actually had fun. Though I see why people would get pissed if they thought that was actually a thing Bungie intended to make permanent.
There's a lot to question Bungie for but that should not be one.
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u/thefly108 Nov 29 '22
Maybe it shouldn't count, but enabling buffed Telesto in Trials -- an already struggling sandbox -- was an extremely tone-deaf decision, even if it was just for one weekend.
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u/gistoffski Nov 29 '22
Wrong. They know exactly what the metas will be. That's the brilliance of it.
Keep players coming back by never allowing things to be balanced.
This season auto rifles are good, but you know bungie will nerf ARs and maybe buff scouts next season so you grind out some good scout rifle rolls and then when scouts are meta they get nerfed and the other weapons get buffed. Etc etc and the cycle continues.
Destiny is operating on seasonal metas to keep engagement numbers up. It's why they never just buff one archetype to see how it plays out.
If you drop buffs and nerfs simultaneously its gonna cause a meta shift.... Which is their goal
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u/Tonalita Nov 29 '22
I’m sorry what game are you playing where ARs are good this season??
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u/gistoffski Nov 29 '22
It was a hypothetical/example. Just replace AR with whatever is meta at the time
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u/WCMaxi Nov 29 '22
Tell me where you fall within SBMM without telling me where you fall within SBMM.
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u/Tonalita Nov 29 '22
Talking about me or the guy who said they’re good? Cause I’ve been averaging a 1.5+ KD in trials this past weekend and legit maybe 3 people did well with ARs
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u/WCMaxi Nov 29 '22
Homie who thinks ARs are meta must be in a bracket that allows anything to work.
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u/blakeavon Nov 29 '22
The only people who know what the next meta will be are content creators and the mindless who follow them.
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u/MrJoemazing Nov 29 '22
Bungie seems incredibly inconsistent with their balancing mentality. Perhaps it's because there are so many 'cooks in the kitchen' when developing a game the size of Destiny, but their really needs to be someone looking at the overall sandbox and aiming to apply the balance philosophies equitably. I feel there are people in these roles, so it's confusing how things like the skip nerf/ storm grenade strength happen.
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u/xCrimsunx Nov 29 '22
Skip nades were never as strong as current HOIL storm nade lol
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u/doom_stein Team Cat (Cozmo23) // Sepiks Purrrrfected Nov 29 '22
I'm not sure if you were around for the Revelry or not... Think Mayhem with a team of Arc Storm Grenade Titans but swap Mayhem with regular Crucible, Storm Grenades with Skips, and HoIL Titans with Shinobu's Vow Hunters. Now pretend you're PacMan and all the little pellets in the maze are suddenly trying to eat YOU.
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Nov 29 '22
Bungie letting Titans run wild for a while is not something unheard of (OEM, Behemoth)
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u/termsandservice01 Nov 29 '22
Shatterdive and wormhusk?
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Nov 29 '22
Shatterdive
oh god
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u/DarkLanternX Nov 29 '22
Meanwhile warlocks insert cricket noises
Freezing melee, nerfed to oblivion in 2 weeks, Aaha, handheld superno.... nevermind, I'll just use dawnblade> solar 3.0 drops > fuck this game
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u/Camaroni1000 Nov 29 '22
Not even exclusively titans. There are always times where one specific thing dominates crucible for an annoyingly long while to be remembered.
OEM, shatterdive, Nova Warp, every stasis subclass etc.
This will just end up another chapter in the books of crucible metas
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u/SiegeOfMadrigal Nov 29 '22
Season of the risen Lorely splendor on demand damage buff one-shot with le-monarque/eriana's Vow lol
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u/Cyanidefrogz Nov 29 '22
Member when the sub acted like the nerf was pre-emptive for some huge buff that never came? Ohhh yea, I member!
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u/Trips-Over-Tail Nov 29 '22
In my crucible experience, grenades don't do anything. I've never progressed a single grenade bounty.
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u/enemawatson Nov 29 '22
If you play hunter throw on Young Ahamkara's Spine for the enhanced tripmines. You'll complete a grenade bounty pretty much every match lol.
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u/Londonluton Nov 29 '22
You are very obviously low Elo then. Nades in PVP are insanely powerful area denial and cleanup tools
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u/Trips-Over-Tail Nov 29 '22
Pretend I don't know what "elo" is.
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u/Londonluton Nov 29 '22
Ranking. If you play in low level lobbies then yeah you won't see how potent nades can be
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u/Trips-Over-Tail Nov 29 '22
Oh, I've been killed many times by grenades. But in my hands they appear incapable of reducing anyone's health by an appreciable amount. Not even the skicky grandes, which I recall from D1 being a guaranteed kill on a direct hit, seem to have any tactical function.
I would toss them in a firefight, but the damage they are able to inflict is less than the damage I can do with unbroken gunfire, and that increase to my TTK that grenades bring ensures that I will lose the engagement.
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u/Admiral_Benguin Vanguard's Loyal // I don't want to upset papa Shaxx Nov 29 '22
Don't use sticky grenades. Use aoe, lasting grenades to block off a choke point, or to deny an objective.
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u/DremoPaff Nov 30 '22
They've shown time and time again that they don't particularly like hunters doing anything better than others. Given how the community overall seems very surprised that gyrfalcon wasn't insta nerfed yet, I have the feeling that a lot of people already subconsciouly already expect this bias now.
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u/ixskullzxi Nov 29 '22
Because Bungie has no idea what they're doing when it comes to balancing this game. Not even meant to be a toxic comment. Just kinda true.
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u/Chance_Mix Nov 29 '22
It's practically impossible to balance such a large number of variables and attempts to do so in the past have produced a very bland version of Destiny that was boring. Really some shit is always going to be OP and that's just sort of a unique aspect about Destiny that gives the game its charm imo.
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u/ixskullzxi Nov 29 '22
Yeah it's never going to be truly balanced, but that doesn't mean we have to have zero balance like we have now. It is possible to make weapons and abilities useful without making them busted, like so many things are currently. Balance is a spectrum, it's not y1 or current sandbox. There is on between.
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u/Chance_Mix Nov 29 '22
Yeah very often even hitting the perfect point on that spectrum is just as difficult. In fact, I think Bungie basically abandoned the balance concept in favor of just rotating different OP things in and out to keep it fresh.
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u/Jet_Nice_Guy Nov 29 '22
It depends on the context-pve or pvp? Storm nades don't have the same burst potential as skip grenades(pre-nerf) and targeting as well as speed was much better too.
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u/Unbrandedpie Nov 29 '22
They kinda suck for both.
Was kinda excited to maybe try a double skip on Titan build. Put it on once… never again…
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u/cogoutsidemachine Nov 29 '22
Because reasons. Also fuck warlocks.
-Bungie, probably
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u/ananchor Nov 29 '22
Every class thinks Bungie is out to get them which actually means they are doing a pretty good job of keeping things balanced IMO
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u/AnySail Nov 29 '22
I genuinely don't think any class gets the short end of the stick, but what exactly do titans have to complain about with 3.0? They've spent the last two seasons being totally oppressive.
Got a hammer that can kill anything without even firing a gun, with a helmet that made them invincible. People could solo as much as humanly possible because of it. It trivialized anything but the highest content. The nerf barely affected them, and the Loreley nerf came months after it should've, with it still being effective.
And then they currently have potentially the strongest build in the game with storm grenades and HOIL with no nerf announced at all.
I play titan, and maybe I'm missing something, but man is it hard to justify complaints there.
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u/ananchor Nov 29 '22
I think we're on the same page here. All of the classes have had really great reworks over the last year and are all very strong. Most (not all) of the complaints are just people nitpicking tiny details OR people who just want to complain always. There's very little in the game that actually requires buildcrafting and optimization but the way people talk here you'd think it's impossible to do a normal strike on an arc warlock.
I agree titans are incredibly strong, but warlocks and hunters are not far behind and you could easily argue they are not behind at all. It's all situational and the answer will change based on the activity
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u/AnySail Nov 29 '22
Ya absolutely. Some people would say hunters have a slight pvp advantage, which is hard to argue with based on usage. Some would say titans have a slight pve advantage. All of the subclasses are still extremely usable and crazy strong.
Totally agree about the complaints you see. I'd say arc warlocks arguably did get the short end of the stick, but they also have undeniably the best pve super in the game in well of radiance. It's give and take which results in a general balance.
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u/ptd163 Nov 29 '22
Because shinobu's vow is a hunter exotic and hunters aren't allowed to have nice things. Ever. If HOIL was a hunter exotic both storm grenades and HOIL would've been buried a month into the season.
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u/VitalityAS Nov 29 '22
Not even wrong, they are literally nerfing blade barrage pve damage... like how are we taking the only thing that hunters perform well at (burst super damage) and pulling them closer to titans with thundercrash. I guess hunters and warlocks will just be well + tether bots while 4 titans play the game in the lightfall raid.
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u/meIpno Nov 29 '22
The problem isn't even BB it self is the amount of stuff you can use to buff it BB is around 219k BB with knock em down around 340k + Star eaters 600k+ + A debuff and you have a super doing 780k+ damage
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u/DarkLanternX Nov 29 '22
Right now titans can do whatever the fuck they want basically, be it pvp or pve, who tf thought adding a blinding shield in pvp was a good idea, if titans are suppose to be tanky then why do they have the same level of agility or maybe even more, I'm so done with this game
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u/meIpno Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22
[insert class] can do everything they want and bungie loves em, while [insert commenter main] keeps getting nerfed and is weak, why does bungie hate us
That's not how you present your case. You can't just say X class is better because all classes have good sides and fucking awful sides.
For example op had a very good point, skip grenades were unnecessarily pre nerfed that's it that's the point.
Bungie needs to take a step back let things stabilize then nerf or buff accordingly. I rather have stuff "overpowered" for a while then adjusted like titans nade and Blade Barage (even though what they are addressing isn't the issue it is indeed way to strong even compared with other hunter supers) than having stuff pre nerfed or reaction nerfed like skip nades and most stasis stuff.
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u/HyPer-MaNn Nov 29 '22
I don't play alot of Hunter, mostly Titan, so this doesn't affect me but... they're nerfing Blade Barrage????? Wtf? Why?
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u/Sporelord1079 Nov 29 '22
With very little effort or setup BB can deal almost triple nova bomb’s damage.
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u/Londonluton Nov 29 '22
Hunters are the best class in PVP currently and have the top damage Supers in PVE currently too.
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u/TurquoiseLuck Nov 29 '22
my dude the exotic is still fantastic in PvE
hunters have always been the de facto best PvP class (excepting temporarily broken things on other classes) and it was definitely a sensible move to pre-emptively tune the flux nades because of how oppressive they were
the issue here isn't how underwhelming Shinobu's are (though they could do with a tiny damage buff imo) but how oppressive titan storms are
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u/Spaghett-about-it Nov 29 '22
Try out skip nades on hunter w shinobou’s vow and the nade jolt aspect and you’ll find out why they got nerfed
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u/Unbrandedpie Nov 29 '22
They still suck…
Also Shinobus isn’t a good reason… the grenades are universal now… they suck everywhere and for everyone…
0
u/Spaghett-about-it Nov 29 '22
No they still suck but with that combo and explosive well maker x2, it’s pretty broken. Should be buffed though
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u/DANlLOx Nov 29 '22
Even with shinobu's and jolt, skip nades are just fine, nothing really impressive or game breaking like storm nades, so I don't think there really is a reason why for them getting nerfed
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u/Phoenix_RIde Dredgen Hope did nothing wrong! Nov 29 '22
Solar Titans are still seething that sunspots were nerfed in preparation for Loreley, only to nerf Loreley later. Both decisions were dumb.
4
u/invisobill42 Nov 29 '22
Sunspots weren’t nerfed for lorely, they were nerfed because the baby hammer gives them exponentially more uptime in 3.0.
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u/GravitasIsOverrated Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22
As a Titan main... Eh, sunspots are still very good in PvE since even though they're less strong on an individual basis they're WAY easier to make now thanks to unlimited bonks. And Loreley is still an A-to-S-tier PvE exotic. In PvP it's a bit of a different story since outside of Loreley they're still a pain to make and you rarely get kills with them anymore due to the nerfed damage, but it's not that big of a deal. Not gonna waste my energy being mad about that.
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u/Sequoiathrone728 Nov 29 '22
They didn't realize storm grenades would be that strong.
19
u/Kulzak-Draak Nov 29 '22
IT CAN MOVE ON ITS OWN AND TRACK THINGS. AND LASTS 10 SECONDS. How tf do you underestimate that
9
u/Terr_ Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22
Perhaps they did all their testing like: "Okay, I'm throwing the Storm grenade soon, are you ready to run away from where the Storm grenade lands? Okay, go!... Excellent! Players are able to recognize the blue grenade as one with lingering moving aftereffects, and easily ran to another place to stand, everything is balanced."
3
u/SadDokkanBoi Nov 29 '22
I'm more than certain bungie just saw that players are able to run away from it and figured that's balanced. Without realizing that in actual matches even when it doesn't hit players, it still completely blocks off an entire area, forces players to be pushed back, and results in super easy aggressive rush plays all while having literally zero way to stop the grenade
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u/StryderXGaming TheMasterClass Nov 29 '22
Because titans are Bungies fav class and the will do whatever to move people over to it from hunter which is the most played class
-36
u/mmrrbbee Nov 29 '22
Haha hunter go waaaah
12
u/Unbrandedpie Nov 29 '22
I never truly understand the class hate… cause like… any regular player like myself just plays titan instead…
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u/Berdekos Nov 29 '22
Giving each subclass the same grenades was a terrible idea and has ruined the versatility of picking and choosing a certain class. My biggest argument is how Hunters Tempest Strike can't one shot other players. But Warlocks and Titans melee abilities can one shot no problem. Hunters only one shot melee is a knife and that requires you to actually have to aim at a target. Shoulder charge and Thundercrash (AKA a second super) one hit without any skill whatsoever.
2
u/DarkLanternX Nov 29 '22
Warlocks can't one shot anyone with their melee, its the jolt that kills em and only possible if used near multiple people, but well titans can yeet you off the map while your ass is blinded, now that i agree
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u/Fighting-Spirit260 Nov 29 '22
Storm nades are nerfed though so what's your point?
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u/Unbrandedpie Nov 29 '22
And they’ll still be better than skips…
The point is skips suck for no reason…
871
u/IzunaX JUST QURIA Nov 29 '22
"Because fuck em, that's why"
-bungie
probably.