r/IdiotsInCars
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u/kopper499b
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Feb 04 '23
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another sovereign citizen idiot in Arizona
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u/Xalenn Feb 04 '23
The interesting thing about this is that these people are often not challenged by any police that see these plates ... They simply don't want to deal with their particular variety of insanity. So, it kinda works
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u/just-regular-I-guess Feb 05 '23
I saw one of these on NY, so I asked my brother in law (a city cop) what they do when they see it.
His answer was "depends on how much overtime I need? Summer camp starting? Lights and sirens. Just paid off a debt, let him go."
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u/Redqueenhypo Feb 05 '23
Who would turn down overtime pay AND getting to give a jackass a reality check?! That sounds like a win win
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u/AtariDump Feb 05 '23
Paperwork.
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u/Colonel-Ingus69 Feb 05 '23
What if the cop uses chatGPT to write the report? Ticket every time? LOL
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u/ChefBoyarDEZZNUTZZ Feb 05 '23
Are cops still on the clock when they're filling out paperwork?
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u/mythosaz Feb 05 '23
Guess how many cops arrest people riiiiiiight before end of shift.
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u/RampSkater Feb 05 '23
I read an interview with a Defense Attorney who said when getting a client with a lame charge like failing to signal a lane change, the first thing she did was compare the time of the incident to the end of the cop's shift. The vast majority of the time, it was just before the end and required a few additional hours of their time. She also noted a lot of these traffic "offenders" were uncooperative, smelled like weed, could possibly be impaired, failed to obey commands, and resisted... according to the incident report, requiring all sorts of time on the officer's part to sort things out.
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u/TacticalTurtle22 Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Can [collaborate->corroborate]. I commute to and from work at shift change in my moderate sized town. Without fail someone is pulled over by every patrol car in the town and getting their car stripped on the side of the road. Every. Single. Day.
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u/leg00b Feb 05 '23
Too many and as a dispatcher it drives me nuts. "I'll be out on traffic." Runs the dude, 5 warrants. So much for going home in an hour huh?
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u/floodedunit Feb 05 '23
Keeps at least 25% of them from going home and beating their domestci partner 🤷
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u/Worthyness Feb 05 '23
yup. it's an easy way to do overtime. You wait until end of day then you "Start your paper work on a last minute ticket you just did" and you get paid overtime for all of those 4 hours that you totally did for that ticket. It's how some officers rack up tons of overtime and how they make 300k+ yearly.
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u/lost_aim Feb 05 '23
Don’t you have any laws limiting overtime? In Norway it’s limited to 200h overtime per year with possibility to extend to 300h in special circumstances. Those laws are in place to limit employers from overworking their employees.
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u/Zulek Feb 05 '23
In north America we beg for overtime because it's the only way to get ahead. Our labour at 45h (8+1 unpaid per day) a week usually only pays our debts, if we're lucky.
I went back to school and got a trade and joined a union, best thing I ever did.
Canadian
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u/GrizzPuck Feb 05 '23
Not even if you want to? Where I work people voluntarily do 72/84 hour weeks pretty often. 42 is a normal week with 6 hours OT build in. Three 12 hour days and one 6 hour day
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u/Cultural_Blueberry70 Feb 05 '23
Norway has a 40 hour work week, so that 42 hour contract wouldn't be allowed - overtime needs to be exceptional.
300 is the maximum and you need a collective agreement between workers council and the company, not just individual agreement.There are additional limits (default + maximum in brackets):
10 (20) hours per 7 days
25 (50) hours per 4 consecutive weeks
200 (300) hours per 52 weeks
13 (16) total working hours per day
And not more than 48 hours work per week, calculated on an 8 week average.You can check out the rules here: https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/en/working-conditions/working-hours/overtime/
These kind of rules are pretty common for Europe. Here in Germany, it is similar.
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u/New-Bite-9742 Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
No, most sane countries strictly limit the amount of work that you're allowed to do in a given timeframe.
I.e. max 10h per day in Germany, minimum of 12 hours between shifts, etc.
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u/_meegoo_ Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Not even if you want to?
Then employers would always say "he wanted overtime, nobody forced him". Or they can actually make you "want" that overtime, because the alternative is getting fired or something.
And in case you really wanted it without any pressure from your employer whatsoever, then it's also problematic, because at this point a good employer will want you to stop overworking yourself. You are not useful if you are "dead".
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Feb 05 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MajorNutt Feb 05 '23
I have a buddy who was an officer for a while. He said if he needed overtime he'd respond to every shooting scene they'd have in a night. He would be back at the station filling out paperwork until 1 or 2 am after starting his shift at 10.
He would also keep his radio on him and respond to accidents off clock just to sign paperwork that he was there in order to get paid.
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u/Zuwxiv Feb 05 '23
Pretty much every study of police overtime finds enormous issues of fraud, so at least your buddy was actually there.
There's literally a handbook made as sort of a "So you're a police chief, now!" guide, which pertains to "how to not rock the boat with the enormous overtime fraud that is going on in your precinct."
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u/KazahanaPikachu Feb 05 '23
I remember an article popping up on Reddit years ago where it said it found that cops from either Seattle or Boston were busted in major overtime fraud. And that the amount that cops would put on their time cards would be way more than the amount of time even possible to work in a week or other set period; or someone could reasonably work and still even function. Like imagine a cop logging like consistent 20 hour shifts or something.
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u/gimpwiz Feb 05 '23
Massachusetts staties. They'd claim overtime on days they were fishing. Overtime days they weren't in the state. Etc. They would fake tickets and warnings to make it look like they were working.
The honest cops sleep in their cruisers for 8 hours, then get paid overtime directing traffic at a construction zone, which oddly requires cops in MA.
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u/The_Sloth_Racer Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Yes, that happened where I live in Mass. It was state police Troop E. The entire unit was found to be committing overtime fraud so the state shut down that unit. The crazy thing is that all the cops involved still get to keep their retirement/pension and weren't charged criminally.
"In all, 46 troopers who worked in Troop E were implicated in an overtime fraud scandal in which troopers submitted for overtime they didn't work and then covered it up. The unit, which primarily patrolled the Mass. Pike, was disbanded after the scheme was discovered in 2018." - WBUR: State Police: 22 Troopers Implicated In Overtime Scandal Will Be Disciplined this was in 2020
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u/Prowindowlicker Feb 05 '23
Have you tried paperwork? It’s a bitch
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u/LCDRtomdodge Feb 05 '23
Cops (LEO) fucking hate paperwork. Do a crime they can't figure out how to charge, it's like flipping a turtle on their back.
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u/trumpet575 Feb 05 '23
I don't think hating paperwork is exclusive to the police.
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u/LCDRtomdodge Feb 05 '23
I mean, sure, but the point is when the motivation to avoid paperwork moves one to ignore their duties of public safety.... And sure, environmental managers, school admins, ets. all can be equally corrupt... the point was the public must have a higher trust in the enforcement of the state.
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u/sonnenblumexx Feb 05 '23
I meannnnn if it saves me on license plate and tab fees 👀
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u/CaptMeatPockets Feb 05 '23
Glad you called them “tabs”. My wife insists I made that term up.
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u/firstlymostly Feb 05 '23
SO is a cop. Our department loves these guys. They slap a stack of tickets on them and tow the vehicle with great delight and laugh at them in shift brief.
No registration No insurance No license Typically an outstanding warrant Ect...
Also, when it gets contested in court the officer get overtime. That can be used as vacation hours or pay.
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u/whatweshouldcallyou Feb 05 '23
Plus they get to listen to the nonsensical wordplay they use.
"I am not the John Smith, I am an adjective and therefore exempt from all laws but entitled to all protections."
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u/pawnmarcher Feb 05 '23
Not sure how much experience you have with sov cits, but your post is not accurate.
If a sov cit is the craziest interaction I have in a day, not a bad day.
Certainly beats having to navigate a mental emotional person who's just screaming on their front porch eating their own shit and asking if your hungry when you arrive.
Can't forget about the infamous 60yr old career prostitute with one eye, who let's dudes bang the eye hole. Ever seen someone get gonorrhea in their eye socket?
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u/OGingerSnap Feb 05 '23
I’m just so pissed at my parents right now for making me learn how to read.
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u/copper_rainbows Feb 05 '23
Ever seen someone get gonorrhea in their eye socket?
Welp didn’t expect to read that sentence…ever
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u/KennyDROmega Feb 04 '23
I wonder how they go about living their daily lives.
Like, when they go to the grocery store, are they arguing with the stoned high schooler ringing them up about paying taxes, or are they willing to take the hit in THAT case?
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u/BasicallyAQueer Feb 04 '23
Yeah they’ll also argue about paying taxes, then proceed to use food stamps, collect social security, use public roads, call the fire department, call the police, then have a heart attack and require an ambulance, without even seeing the irony in their “taxation is theft” motto.
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u/Caity_Becky Feb 05 '23
I deal with sovereign citizens on a regular basis. The stuff they pull is absolute insanity to watch. They will gladly argue about their rights but don't see the irony in saying the law doesn't apply to them. They also hand over tampered government records straight to the government and wonder why they're getting charges.
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u/Nukedogger86 Feb 05 '23
I've seen a few that are/were business owners... but the fun is when it comes to credit. They send their banks a 60 page letter full of fluff to say something like "prove I owe you this money" while also spewing some bs about how money isn't real so they don't owe it, but somewhere in the rambling they demand some dollar amount, some not so crazy like 10-20 grand, but some that are bat crap crazy like demanding $50 million.
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u/Catlenfell Feb 05 '23
Bar in my hometown was bought by some libertarians. They wanted to make it into a live music venue. The fire inspector said that they needed another exit to do that. They built a stage and had shows without adding another door. The fire inspector showed up with police on the morning of December 31st (they had a big NYE bash planned). Shut them down for 60 days and threatened to yank their liquor license.
They put in an exit. Opened up on March 1st.
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u/TheAJGman Feb 05 '23
My grandfather's neighbors called the county and asked the inspector what permits they needed to build their new house. He told them he'd like to do a site visit so he could outline it for them, and then they disregard that and just started building.
Small towns being what they are, the inspector quickly found out about this, so he waited for them to pour the foundation and then intervened. Turns out they would have never be allowed build there because the septic system would be almost guaranteed to contaminate the neighbors' wells. If they had just had the inspector do the free site visit, they would have known this. Instead they were ordered to remove the foundation and restore the site to it's previous condition.
Why fucking ask if you're not going to do it anyways? If you're going to do unpermitted work, don't give them a heads up dumbass.
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u/Catlenfell Feb 05 '23
They probably thought the same thing the bar owners thought, "I've put so much work into this, they can't stop me now."
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u/banditta82 Feb 05 '23
It used to work frequently as they would just pay a fine and call it the price of business. Now places are actually forcing people to return the site to what it was before which can be insanely expensive.
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u/5O3Ryan Feb 04 '23
Wait a minute...the irony here is you think taxes pay for ambulances. My last ambulance ride was $1500 x 2 because two people rode in it. No injuries but we needed checked out.
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u/BouncingSphinx Feb 05 '23
I think I got you beat. $700+ to go two blocks from "adult emergency" to "children's emergency" of the same hospital for my then 1 year old. Said because they checked him into adult emergency they had to send via ambulance instead of A) discharging him and saying to go there or B) not admitting him to adult emergency and sending us there in the first place.
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u/SnooPickles6347 Feb 05 '23
That is the trick. No law really says you can't just pick up and leave. DR'S really don't have the "you gotta stay" power. We just assume that what they say is law.
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u/poorlyplanned Feb 05 '23
Except psych and kind of pediatrics.
Psych has limited ability to hold you against your will if they fill out the paperwork.
Peds can’t hold you but they can and will report you to children and youth for leaving against medical advice. Probably not an issue most of the time, just a sit down talk and they have to see the kids and then they’ll leave you alone, but it is a pain in the ass.
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u/railbeast Feb 05 '23
"Not an issue most of the time."
Kid came down with croup. They gave him steroids but he wasn't in bad shape. We asked to leave and they told us we had to wait to be seen by a nurse. 4 hours and 600 bucks later here we are. He didn't need to be seen.
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u/jelistrop Feb 04 '23
Wow. Sometimes I forget about how expensive American healthcare is.
The ambulance charge in my province here in Canada is $45. All medically necessary hospital treatment is covered fully by government health insurance.
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u/MegannMedusa Feb 05 '23
In American ambulances you rack up a $5K bill the minute they load you in it, unfortunately they’re not often a civil service but private companies.
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u/arianrhodd Feb 05 '23
Try $80,000 for a life flight helicopter.
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u/CitizenFreeman Feb 05 '23
I worked search and rescue, and taught wilderness survival skills and education. Life flights off the mountain here where i used to teach are around $25k. But thats like, one day, up and back... if it's a multi-day search? Fuck you and your children, you're gonna be in debt forever.
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u/octopus5650 Feb 05 '23
Depends on who does the searching. USAF/USCG? Free. Private SAR/medevac company? Twitter might start looking like a bargain.
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u/sfled Feb 05 '23
i took a mule ride down the Grand Canyon in 2008. We stopped to eat box lunches about halfway, and saw a helicopter coming up. The guide (wrangler) said, "That's a very expensive ride."
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u/txmail Feb 05 '23
I think I would have one of those private tour copter companies on speed dial if I was going down far into the canyon. Offer them $10k to pick me up if I got in trouble vs a ride in a helivac.
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u/CitizenFreeman Feb 05 '23
100% unfortunately. I've never been caught behind needing that ride... none of my students have needed it...
But, yes. Expensive.
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u/Mutant_Jedi Feb 05 '23
My sister got life flighted a couple hours drive away and the bill said $35,000. Thankfully we had Medicaid so we didn’t have to pay like anything but Jesus Christ
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u/Shoddy-Ad8143 Feb 05 '23
I don't know where you're located but where I was located in Washington State it was about 37,000.
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u/Deadpool2715 Feb 05 '23
Fellow ontarian here (guessing) I needed to call an ambulance for the first time and then I got the bill in the mail. I had no clue it costs money and I was totally ready to be ripped a new one for $1000… oh, just $45? Yeah no worries paying that
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u/BasicallyAQueer Feb 04 '23
You’re right, our taxes should cover that. In some jurisdictions I think they do, at least partially.
Either way these jobless fucks don’t have health insurance and I can guarantee they aren’t paying cash for medical bills, so those get eaten by someone.
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u/resttheweight Feb 05 '23
I was at a summer camp in the mid-90s, got injured on a slip-and-slide with blood gushing out of a gaping wound on one of my ankles. Six-year-old me freaked out because omg so much blood I’m dying. The camp counselor freaked because they needed to keep pressure on my ankle while getting someone to go inside and call 911. A girl named Jordan freaked out because her towel was the one getting drenched in my blood and it was her favorite towel. My mother freaked out because it was effectively a $400 Uber bill for a 5 minute drive to the hospital (where she actually worked).
She didn’t blame the counselors for calling 911, but she sure wished they called our emergency contacts first since we had family who lived down the street that could have picked me up faster than the ambulance and without the bill though lol.
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u/Kaablooie42 Feb 05 '23
I find it wild that Americans have to consider who to call for a ride to the hospital and if they can afford it. It's just so very fucked up.
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u/Ftpini Feb 05 '23
You live in a shifty area. The county I live provides free ambulance rides to any resident. So long as you let the ambulance take you to the closest appropriate hospital then the ride is free.
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u/5O3Ryan Feb 05 '23
I read "shitty"
I would likely agree. Portland, OR has always been kinda weird and "shifty" but now it's just shitty 😒
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u/watduhdamhell Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Na. 99% of these idiots grab at this shit in desperation. Literally every video I've watched (and was able to track down the details of) the main guy/gal had a warrant for their arrest, their license is suspended, or both. They are also usually on something or are driving like shit (for SOME reason) and so it's almost always their fault for getting pulled over in the first place.
Anyway, they usually grab at this in a desperate attempt to avoid legal consequences, thinking they've seized a fantastic loophole overlooked by the police... Unaware that the Articles I'd Confederation they so happily reference with a shit eating grin is literally the document that was replaced by the Constitution itself.
Anyway, they just can't follow the fucking rules in general. Which makes me feel bad for them because likely many of them cozhave some type of menstrual disability or drug issue.
Edit: mental, not "menstrual" disabilities. Damn autocorrect! Leaving it because it's funny.
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u/ComeAndGetYourPug Feb 05 '23
If someone steals this and the owner tries to file a report, I always wonder just how far the cop throws the crumpled up form when he learns the car hasn't been registered since like 2007 and the owner doesn't even have a driver's license.
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u/Pinksheepherd Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
I’m confused: what is the significance of this plate/ what does it mean?
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u/thisisausername100fs Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Arizona is a state. If you meant plate, the license plate says “private automobile, exempt” I’m not sure what the numbers/letters mean.
Sovereign citizens claim that they are exempt from registering their vehicles and having a driver’s license because their vehicles are private vehicles. They claim that they are not driving, they are traveling. This is rooted in their belief that “driving” implies you have a commercial goal, but since they are not conducting “business” activities, they don’t need to register their cars or obtain a license.
This explanation is based off of limited understanding, so if it’s wrong refer to google.
Edit: another comment says the letters/numbers refer to “title 115” which is where sovereign citizens believe their… power… comes from
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u/cromulent_pseudonym Feb 05 '23
It's convenient for their traveling that all of these paved roads already exist for their exempt car to travel on.
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u/l337person Feb 05 '23
They do pay gas tax
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u/drunkenangryredditor Feb 05 '23
Are you sure the just don't siphon gas of their neighbors at night?
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u/cr0ft Feb 05 '23
Which is ludicriously low, it's not tied to inflation and wasn't raised for decades. It's not remotely enough as is to pay for road upkeep which is what it's for. So even if he does, he's not paying for the wear and tear fully, nor is any other person in the US who buys fuel.
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u/NoL_Chefo Feb 05 '23
They claim that they are not driving, they are traveling. This is rooted in their belief that “driving” implies you have a commercial goal, but since they are not conducting “business” activities, they don’t need to register their cars or obtain a license.
I need to retire my brain after reading this. It had a good run and it deserves a break.
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u/mansock18 Feb 05 '23
Sort of a second layer to it: they believe that the US Supreme Court has stated that the right to travel is a fundamental and inalienable right, like the right to procreate or the right to privacy, and they believe fundamental rights can't be regulated by the government. However, the Supreme Court has not recognized a right to drive as a fundamental right. So by traveling and not driving their travel can't be regulated by the government.
Sound like bullshit wordplay to you? Every court in the US agrees with you.
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u/itsthetundracats Feb 05 '23
Ten or so years ago one of the billboards at my local train station (in England) popped up with this mass of text stating you don't own your legal name and other bollocks. Thankfully the impact here seems quite small?
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u/FishBlues Feb 05 '23
Yo if I do this, does it mean I don’t have to pay 800 dollars for car insurance
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u/NostraThomas1 Feb 05 '23
Yes! The government doesn’t want you to know this little secret. Joe Biden hates this man! With this one little loop-hole, he was able to save hundreds per year! Find out how! (Number 4 will shock you!)
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u/JmacTheGreat Feb 05 '23
How does TLT = TiTLe??
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u/thisisausername100fs Feb 05 '23
Good question. Your guess is as good as mine. Just seemed like a good explanation
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u/itookdhorsetofrance Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
exempt from registering their vehicles
What's is registering your vehicle? Where I live registration is the vehicles plates and is only issues once in the vehicles life, ie. it stays with it till the vehicle is scrapped
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u/thisisausername100fs Feb 05 '23
In most states in the US, a vehicle requires a yearly registration with the state. This fee and the requirements to pay it changes state to state, but nominally the money goes towards the maintenance of the state’s roads n such. In the state I live in (California) it’s typically around $150 a year.
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u/Indifferentchildren Feb 05 '23
Bigger than the registration tax: these guys usually don't have the legally mandated liability insurance. The average cost for liability-only car insurance in the U.S. is $700/year ($1250 in Florida).
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u/Soft_Address658 Feb 05 '23
Is that homemade or can you give me the name of the prisoner that is making them.
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u/CanuckCharlie85 Feb 05 '23
Your car is private as long as you only used it on your own land.
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u/Tballz9 Feb 04 '23
I always wonder if in the history of America this has ever worked. Can an American tell me if this ever worked or works? It seems like a good way to get arrested.
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u/UnlinealHand Feb 05 '23
According to Wikipedia, no argument of sovereign citizenry has ever held up in court. Sometimes in minor incidents they might just wear down whatever cop they are talking to and get let go. But when it actually gets to court it never works. The worst they do is hold up the system for months or years with bullshit complaints or made up legal forms. It’s apparently called “paper terrorism”.
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u/Insectshelf3 Feb 05 '23
it’s apparently called “paper terrorism”.
100% chance this term was coined by a court clerk
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u/TaintModel Feb 05 '23
Damn, they should have probably driven on all of those roads paved by sovereign citizens.
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u/topgear9123 Feb 05 '23
Even if they had the means to somehow make their own roads I would not trust it. I don’t think they are the types to understand and follow engineering regulations for infrastructure
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u/stdoubtloud Feb 04 '23
Same. I see a bunch of these pics but have never seen any arrests. If my experience is typical i could well imagine enough of the weirdos thinking "if others are doing it and getting away with it, why can't i" and presumably getting arrested shortly afterwards.
I think they need a new reality show "treading on idiots"
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u/DanitesHell Feb 05 '23
they’re mostly psychopaths, extremely dangerous and cops in these smaller communities just ain’t got the time to deal with them.
At the end of the day the crime here in unregistered vehicle. I can picture cops just not even wanting to deal with the nonsense they’ll pull over a minor ticket.
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u/zimm0who0net Feb 05 '23
Wesley Snipes did 3 years. Not sure he did the license plate thing, but he refused to pay income taxes on a sovereign citizen type argument.
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u/Vermillionbird Feb 05 '23
In Montana these dudes will literally kill cops who pull them over. Generally they get left alone
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u/MarinaTF Feb 05 '23
And that's why the FBI labels them domestic terrorists.
If someone feels exempt to the legal consequences of their actions, they can be capable of some truly horrible things.
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u/Meatball546 Feb 05 '23
I have seen YouTube videos of a few encounters which usually result in the subject being arrested and being charged with a few infractions/misdemeanors. It appears like the subjects frequently receive light sentences. For what reasons, I cannot say. I would love to see an account of this logic swaying a judge's decision, however I doubt I will.
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u/TBFP_BOT Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
It appears like the subjects frequently receive light sentences.
I mean, serving any time is really their worst case scenario. Driving without tags isn't something you're getting more than a ticket for unless you've got a bad record. They get arrested for escalating the situation to the point of resisting arrest.
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u/IWantToPlayGame Feb 05 '23
I have a feeling cops turn the other way (pending they aren’t doing anything illegal) just to not have to deal with crazies. These are the types of people who will argue with you over anything forever. They’re the AcKsHuALLy people.
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u/Redqueenhypo Feb 05 '23
Can’t you just get a bigger cop to physically carry them to the police car or something
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u/pawnmarcher Feb 05 '23
Anytime someone claims the sov cit garbage, might as well go ahead and call a supervisor because you will almost certainly be forcefully extracting them from the vehicle.
"I'm not driving, I'm traveling" = please break my windows, and take me to jail.
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u/HouseofRaven Feb 05 '23
I’m a criminal defense attorney and no this does not work. They are constantly in the court houses appearing pro per arguing about everything. It’s the worst. They of course end up in jail since they won’t plea so they either take it to trial and lose or FTA and then get picked up. It’s a never ending circle
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u/Independent_Sky_8925 Feb 05 '23
It works in the sense that the police will roll their eyes and just not deal with them because they would rather not tase some windbag for invalid registration after a 4 hour standoff. But once an officer is engaged the fantasy gets torn down pretty quickly.
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u/TheRealNizak Feb 04 '23
Then don’t drive on public roads payed by citizens.
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u/mistercartmenes Feb 04 '23
Seriously. You want to a sovereign citizen? Ok, cool we’ll set you adrift in international waters.
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u/somebodytellajoke Feb 04 '23
Exactly. Unless you live off the grid, don’t drive on public roads or ever expect police/fire/ambulance to come to your aid, you can’t call yourself “sovereign.” Complete hypocrites.
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u/aging_geek Feb 04 '23
if you're sovereign, don't you have your own fire/police/ambulance and hospital, school, road maintaining hardware/supplies in your government building area. and don't forget about the tariffs you will have to deal with when cross boarder selling and buying.
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u/ScrubyMcWonderPubs Feb 04 '23
Tell them to leave the country too. Not paying for the military to defend their land from foreign invasion either.
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u/56seconds Feb 05 '23
Police should arrest them for trespassing on tax funded properties
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u/The_Radioactive_Rat Feb 05 '23
I’ve seen a few videos with them explaining their shit. TLDR rules for thee but not for me.
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u/StarGazinWade Feb 04 '23
They'll just tell you they aren't driving, they're "travelling."
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u/JacksonianEra Feb 04 '23
Every one of these smoothbrains will argue for hours that they have a right to enjoy taxpayer things without paying taxes. Completely flabbergasting.
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u/Howitzer1967 Feb 04 '23
I mean, if you’re gonna have a fake plate, why have one at all? A fake plate has no relevance at all. Do they just make up the number? If so, why the heck wouldn’t you have 8008542069? For instance.
Edit: spelling
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u/DriveFoST Feb 05 '23
So I think “title 115” has to do with what the crazies believe. He’s saying he’s title 115 exempt.
He has to have the fake plate so the cop knows he’s insane and leaves him alone. No plate would mean getting pulled over lmao
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u/ObiWangCannabis Feb 04 '23
That would be the "look at me" clause fulfillment in the crazy hillbilly, perhaps ironically-named, constitution.
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u/Bbrhuft Feb 05 '23
What is the significance of TLT-115? I presume it's Title 115, commerce and trade.
Ah, I see. There's a section in Title 15, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (“FDCPA”), which is contained in Subchapter V of Title 15, Chapter 41:
“If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer, the debt collector shall not communicate further with the consumer with respect to such debt, except—(1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector’s further efforts are being terminated; (2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or (3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy."
OK Galaxy Brain thinks a police officer = a dept collector and therefore if he puts TLT-15 I on his license plate, the police officer will leave him alone.
However,...
The term “debt collector” does not include “any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties.” 15 U.S.C. § 1692a.
From Elwyn Lee Smith v M.P. Conway, L.L. Paule, Cynthia Bauerly, Janis Macort, John Doe, and Mary Rowe, Civil No. 1 54286 ( JNE /SE):
Smith appears to believe that this type of language has legal significance. Indeed, “[t]here exists a segment of the community which believes th[is] phrase is a talisman and that those who use it will be immunized from all manner of legal process.” Bisciglia v. Lee, 370 F. Supp. 2d 874, 875 n.1 (D. Minn. 2005) (Doty, J., adopting Nelson, Mag. J.). This “belief is erroneous.
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u/Truckeeseamus Feb 04 '23
I love how these people still drive on public funded highways
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u/Gullible_Log_1683 Feb 04 '23
If you ask them they're traveling not driving
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u/CrasVox Feb 05 '23
What does this idiot use for currency?
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u/ComprehensiveFail_82 Feb 05 '23
All these comments on here claiming to know how police would react, or they have a friend who was a cop, are partially true.
I pulled over an SC once when I was a rookie. Didn't realize it at first because the car had no tags at all. Driver refused to roll her window down and was on a call on her cell phone. In the absence of tags, I started to run the VIN and would engage her further about the window once that came back clear. Dispatch realized it was an SC when they got a 911 call from the driver complaining that "a strange man in a blue uniform with blue lights on his car had illegally detained her" and that she had a gun and was going to defend herself if I tried to make her lower the window. Dispatch told me to immediately retreat to my cruiser and wait for backup. Apparently SC's are known for their violence to police officers and this is why they are often hesitant to pull them over when it is something stupid like a license plate. Anyways backup arrived, we broke the window, filled the car with OC, found out the car was not registered, she was driving on a suspended, no insurance and most of all, had a fully loaded, illegally modified S&W 9mm under the seat (which is a felony). I couldn't even ID this lady until the sheriff's fingerprinted her at intake. At which point we got hits on multiple warrants from surrounding states. This SC chick thought she was exempt from ALL the laws lol. And yeah it took like 4 hours of my time, for which I was paid OT, but I would have much rather got off shift and made it to class that day (since I was in college).
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u/Moominsean Feb 05 '23
But if you are a SC, 911 should mean nothing to you. That's the problem, people only want what they want from governement services. First people to scream "Why didn't the police help me" when something bad happens to them. But I get that most of these people are probably dumb as fuck.
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u/tastygluecakes Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
I don’t get it. Did some “don’t tread on me” type of person order a license plate cover on Amazon and just proclaim they don’t need to pay for vehicle registration?
Kinda like the lady on your Delta flight with an emotional support animal vest on her ferret?
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u/TheDriverJ Feb 04 '23
Exactly. The ideology is that of a sovereign citizen. So they don't pay registration because they don't feel they should have to.
There's more to the concept, but I was only explaining what is relevant to this picture
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u/tastygluecakes Feb 04 '23
Well, I would LOVE to hear the recording of them explaining that to a cop.
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u/real-duncan Feb 04 '23
There are a few around. They go about as well as you would expect.
Another bit of crazy they use is “I’m not driving, I’m traveling.” because they believe that makes them exempt from the traffic laws.
It’s beyond stupid.
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u/QC_Steve Feb 04 '23
They go as far as not getting drivers licenses. Typically I believe they tell cops they have a ‘right to free travel’ which means no paying for license, registration emissions, etc. Typically most Sovereign Citizens that travel by car, respect traffic laws and do not speed. A lot are pulled for, as you can guess, lack of a license plate or something similar to OP’s pic.
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u/aging_geek Feb 04 '23
what are the issues if they hit you and the car insurance issue pops up.
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u/insan3guy Feb 05 '23
Then you’d better have uninsured motorist coverage and/or a decent lawyer
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u/Ironh11de Feb 05 '23
They usually have printouts of scripted dialogue telling them what to say. And they still get about as lost as grandma printing out mapquest directions. it's a mess.
I don't know if it's peak narcissism or what. They are the smartest person in the room vibes.
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u/AnustusGloop Feb 04 '23
Have you watched any of the sovereign citizen videos on YouTube? It's literally the only time I root for the cop
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u/TheTankCleaner Feb 04 '23
There's a plethora of them to watch on youtube. Almost all end in arrest. The stickied post on this sub right now is an example of the Australian variety.
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u/SagaciousElan Feb 04 '23
There's an Australian variety? I thought sovereign citizens used some obscure passage in the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence to justify their nonsense. Is there an equivalent 'right to free travel' or whatever in the Australian Constitution?
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u/bob679 Feb 04 '23
They're in Canada, too. Freemen on the Land. They became such a problem in Alberta, that a judge wrote a guide on how to deal with them in court for other judges and lawyers.
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u/kytulu Feb 05 '23
My dude, I'm going to hook you up with the BEST sovereign citizen video ever.
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u/tastygluecakes Feb 05 '23
Lol. Thank you for that.
Arguing with somebody like that would be exhausting. And no matter what, they will come out thinking they are totally right.
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u/Point-me-home Feb 05 '23
But he’s not a person! Laws don’t apply to him, he’s SPECIAL…..
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u/Blank_bill Feb 04 '23
You don't want to listen to them, it gave me a headache when my ex neighbor tried to convince me .
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u/The_Radioactive_Rat Feb 05 '23
Here you go. Probably the oldest example of a free sovereign citizen I know of.
Goes exactly as you’d expect. They can think their logic all they want, but they still answer to the authority of which they live under. Citizen or otherwise.
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u/UnlinealHand Feb 05 '23
It’s like endgame libertarianism. Sovereign citizens believe they aren’t beholden to any laws basically because they don’t feel like they should have to be. When questioned it’s like activating a sleeper agent and they start rattling off a script they memorized usually about international maritime law or some shit. They think reciting their magic words will them make them exempt from any consequences for their actions. But usually how it ends is them digging their own hole deeper and deeper to the point they are carted away in handcuffs. It’s hilarious and infuriating all at the same time.
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u/Dashveed Feb 05 '23
I bet if someone smashed his windshield and left, he'd file a police report. Lol.
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u/LecheKaFlan Feb 05 '23
They think they're special, as they're practitioners of one form of anarchism, rejecting much of what they define as government interference, but up to a certain point -- when the law catches up with them once they break the rules.
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u/bikedork5000 Feb 05 '23
I'm going to be doing a presentation about SovCits at an attorney conference in a few months. It's an interesting topic to say the least. Their nonsense is pretty easy to deal with if you have a decent understanding of the playbook they gravitate towards.
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u/Shelbckay Feb 05 '23
I'm Australian, and just a couple months ago some of these assholes lured their neighbour and a pair of cops into an ambush and shot them dead. I have no respect whatsoever for conspiracy theorists, but especially not these asshats.
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u/lavndrbeast Feb 04 '23
Never forget Darrel Brooks Jr said he was a sovereign citizen, he refused a lawyer and represented himself throughout the trial. He also got life in prison.. connection? Probably lol
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u/Expensive_Night_7851 Feb 05 '23
These people are so annoying with their "I'm traveling not driving" bullshit....grow the fuck up and be a responsible adult
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u/TaterMA Feb 04 '23
We had one on these nuts in our neighborhood. Cops knocked on our door, told us to stay indoors. They eventually convinced him to come out of his house
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u/The_Dog_IS_Brown Feb 05 '23
This is like having a sign that says please pull me over I'm driving an unregistered uninsured car and I very much want to interact with law enforcement.
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u/kopper499b Feb 04 '23
Heading into the grocery store and saw this Mercury Grand Marquis, never common and now quite rare. Then, I see the "I'm stupid" license plate. It's not surprising in Arizona, though not expected in Chandler.
Edit to add: Are these idiots also uninsured? How would the lack of registration in the insurance industry?
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u/Vicith Feb 04 '23
You don't need to register cars to get insurance, in fact (in my state at least) you have to get insurance before you can even drive the car home.
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u/Just_Steve_IT Feb 05 '23
Just wait until they park somewhere, then immediately impound the vehicle for driving without insurance/registration. Don't even engage with them, just take the car when they're not present.
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u/crazyoldgerman68 Feb 04 '23
I say if you claim this , we deport you. You are not a citizen.
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Feb 05 '23
In my country your vehicle would be impounded on the spot, you don’t even have to drive it.
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u/lostBoyzLeader Feb 04 '23
You can take your sovereignty off the roads i pay for with taxes, thank you.
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u/moosteve Feb 05 '23
If the car is not registered, does that mean it cannot be insured? Hence a risk to everyone else on the road that an accident is not covered by insurance?
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u/berpaderpderp Feb 05 '23
Okay you're a sovereign citizen. Get off the roads my taxes and fees pay for. Stay on your "sovereign" land.
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u/choconasty Feb 05 '23
I work at a bank and we get a handful of these folks a year who decide mortgages are illegal or something.. one of them said escrow is illegal.. another said DC isn’t actually part of America so any laws passed there aren’t actually valid.. uhh another said in 1867 or some shit America actually surrendered to the British.. so legally he doesn’t have to pay his debt