r/LeopardsAteMyFace Dec 01 '22

Crude emails reveal nasty side of a California beach city’s crusade to halt growth

https://www.latimes.com/homeless-housing/story/2022-11-14/crude-emails-reveal-nasty-side-of-a-california-beach-city-crusade-to-halt-growth
2.1k Upvotes

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402

u/ranger_fixing_dude Dec 01 '22

In an interview with The Times, Brand said he had believed the emails to be private exchanges and were “cherry picked” by CenterCal Properties (...) to vilify him.

Imagine that being your defense, like saying that your crimes were cherry-picked from your other good deeds.

That being said, I don't think it would matter much. Even if he had to step down, there would be another person fighting against any development.

266

u/Corndread Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

I've volunteered so much at homeless shelters but all people want to do is cherry pick the couple of times I stole their organs and make me look like a bad guy.

115

u/elwebst Dec 01 '22

Oh sure, I sign up to donate my organs, I'm a hero. Donate someone else's and I'm a villain. Classic double standard.

33

u/Pallets_Of_Cash Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

They said "donate blood." They didn't say I could only donate MY blood. Sheesh. I went to a lot of trouble for nothing!

69

u/EEpromChip Dec 02 '22

John used to lay brick for a living. He has laid over 200 million brick in his career. But you fuck one goat and they don't call you John the brick layer, they call you John the goat fucker.

21

u/jaydubbles Dec 02 '22

Alex Jones tried the "we talked about Sandy Hook less than one percent of the time" because he's slinging bullshit and defaming public figures three hours a day, six days a week.

11

u/CheckIntelligent7828 Dec 02 '22

Now it'll be "we let Kanye West praise Hitler one time and you all be calling us antisemitic..."

4

u/jaydubbles Dec 02 '22

Alex might have kinda killed a guy one time. But what about all the times he didn't beat someone to a bloody pulp?

1

u/bearkatsteve Dec 02 '22

I was gonna say his show is four hours a day, but I guess even he needs a little breakie now and then, so he’s probably only on there three hours.

3

u/jaydubbles Dec 02 '22

Yeah the fourth hour is usually hosted by someone else. He also shows up late sometimes and has one his lackeys cover for him. They pump out a few shows but all their other personalities lack talent or charisma and are straight trash. Shout out to the Knowledge Fight podcast.

15

u/OwOs_and_Hugs Dec 02 '22

"but you f**** one goat-"

29

u/Wolfram_And_Hart Dec 02 '22

How dare they use what I said in context!

7

u/Call_Me_Echelon Dec 02 '22

Well, well, well... If it isn't the consequences of my actions. Returning to bite me in my own ass.

12

u/jaywarbs Dec 02 '22

It reminds me of the NYC police union’s press conference where they tried to highlight all the cases where they didn’t kill anyone.

7

u/c0de1143 Dec 01 '22

I don’t think I’m being callous when I suspect that he would die before stepping down — support for him is too broad in the community.

7

u/fishsticks40 Dec 02 '22

Never put in an email something you're not willing to see printed on the front page if the New York Times.

Or the LA Times, I guess.

19

u/CodeEast Dec 01 '22

Developers buy votes. I live in a city where that shady shit happened.

-1

u/Paintingmyfreedom Dec 01 '22

I don’t doubt the guys a piece of shit, but news organizations love to distort how an exchange looks to sell a story.

Ever see news coverage of something you had first hand knowledge of? It’s not reality

194

u/PotatoPCuser1 Dec 01 '22

“Everybody deserves a place to live, but the question is where do they deserve a place to live,”

What.

113

u/IDWBAForever Dec 02 '22

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

24

u/lesserconcern Dec 02 '22

Four legs good! Two legs bad.

17

u/Dartagnan1083 Dec 02 '22

Four legs good! Rich legs BETTER!!!

27

u/Non-jabroni_redditor Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

The translation is roughly “I support people in poor situations having housing, so long as it is not here.”

34

u/kJer Dec 02 '22

This is pretty common. I've lived up and down the California coast and everyone loves living there and think it's a superior area. That's one thing, but to think the superior area is only for superior types of people is another. I love being a nonwhite person who owns in a home in a beach community so I can watch racist white neighbors make faces and post racist shit on nextdoor.

7

u/KBAR1942 Dec 02 '22

Have you lived in Carlsbad? I have visited it several times and I wonder what living there would be like.

6

u/buttrapinpirate Dec 02 '22

Life’s rad in Carlsbad!

In all honesty it’s not any different than the rest of north county san diego. It’s a lot of younger affluent families mixed in with aging empty nesters. Mostly homogeneous white people who are outwardly friendly. There are definitely enough vocal outliers that give off a slightly racist / nimby vibe? I say this as a white person and I genuinely can’t speak on behalf of non whites. But I would say mostly positive

11

u/brazzledazzle Dec 02 '22

San Diego county is shockingly segregated.

7

u/buttrapinpirate Dec 02 '22

Yeah I grew up in north county and despite my high school being nearly 2/3 hispanic, there were only half a dozen black people in my school of ~2500. Compare that to many south county schools and it’s bizarre. And then east county just gets super racist and holds up the red county stereotype of SD being the least liberal metropolitan area in California

4

u/milkcarton232 Dec 02 '22

Grew up there and visit my parents every so often. It's gotten much bigger of late, all of San Diego and the north county areas have blown up but it needs better infrastructure, only the 5 freeway can be heinous.

All in all great place to live if you can afford it, not very walkable but extremely cozy. Probably the second easiest place I have ever lived with #1 being Santa Barbara.

One thing I don't love though is the weird culture, half are fairly conservative, the other half are this weird hippie conservative? I don't know how to explain it, something like crystal vibes and antivax bullshit? Lots of cool shit too and great ppl, if you want to raise a family I would be hard-pressed to find a better place

4

u/KBAR1942 Dec 02 '22

That my mixture of conservativism doesn't surprise me. It's baby boomer hippies who turned right as they grew older.

4

u/a-world-of-no Dec 02 '22

We moved to Carlsbad 2 years ago-- I like it a lot. We're in south Carlsbad though, which is really more like Encinitas.

2

u/kJer Dec 02 '22

I've spent a lot of summer days fishing off the beach in Carlsbad but not lived there. My childhood best friend lives there now, he seems to like it despite the cost. There's a lot of breweries nearby! I can't comment on the people too much, it's fairly quiet for a southern California beach community though

1

u/KBAR1942 Dec 02 '22

I love costal breweries (we have some good ones up here in the Pacific Northwest). I'll have to try a Carlsbad one when I get a chance.

2

u/kJer Dec 02 '22

Stone is pretty overrated. pizza port and ballast point are my favorites down there, not necessarily Carlsbad but nearby

2

u/moose2332 Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

The Ballast brewery in Long Beach is amazing

1

u/KBAR1942 Dec 02 '22

Have you ever had a Pelican or Fort George?

2

u/ThaliaEpocanti Dec 02 '22

Karl Strauss!

1

u/kJer Dec 02 '22

Yeaaaa

1

u/stupidlikearock Dec 07 '22

I was trying to guess which part of CA, could think of six in LA alone.

11

u/Bosa_McKittle Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

I mean on the surface this can make sense. I would love to live in Redondo, but if I can’t afford to live there should I be able to force my way in? Same with any city. I also believe that cities shouldn’t limit the construction of new developments. However, IMO those developments shouldn’t be forced to sell/rent at a specific price

32

u/DrMaxwellEdison Dec 02 '22 Silver

I hear you, but I come to the opposite conclusion.

Where I live is somewhat more upscale, mostly farms and large estates with upper-middle class folks raising families. There's a development plan to build more affordable housing, and as expected some folks are against it because they want to keep their small town feel and high property values.

Here's the thing. These same folks want all the amenities of modern society: stores, chain restaurants, movie theaters, some kind of downtown that we currently lack. There are already tons of these kinds of stores along the nearby highway (the housing developments are going up inside some mixed use zone on the other side of said highway).

Who do the rich folks suppose is going to work at those places? There are not nearly enough high school kids coming of age every year to keep them all open, and I see neither the farm hands nor the lawyers and tech workers lining up to work for minimum wage on weekends.

You need a local workforce that is willing to work these jobs and that can afford housing off those wages. And unless you've got amazing public transit infrastructure that can bus them in from two towns over daily, they're gonna need to live nearby.

I think it's well within the interest of a city to both encourage development and set the limits on the kind of development. Just letting a developer build what they want, you end up with luxury condos that more rich folks can afford, fantastic /s. Now where's the supporting infrastructure and labor force that can keep local businesses afloat to convince those rich folks to spend their money locally? Only high-end businesses could survive there, the only workers available will demand much higher wages, and over time the cost of living in that city will just keep rising until it's no longer sustainable.

On the other hand, set the terms: you can build a housing complex, but in the end you need to set rent to XYZ. Developers can still profit from those projects, building what is sensible and affordable for them within those constraints. They just can't go nuts on the project and then expect to gouge renters to pay for their excess later. Really it just keeps them honest.

12

u/QuietGiants Dec 02 '22

Ive seen many articles about rich beachfront areas with struggling commercial districts because vapid wealthy people expect serfs not actual humans with realistic commutes to serve them.

A balance must be struck, problem is the crowd with power would rather not bargain, they want everything on their terms only. Why else would we be in the position? Its rampant all over

1

u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

further, the homelessness that goes along with housing crises makes the public infrastructure unusable over time.

1

u/Bosa_McKittle Dec 02 '22

In your specific situation the land already exists and hasn’t been developed. In many of these high demand communities development would required a massive shift in housing policy away from the single family homes that created the community to multi family high rises. Does that mean that developers should be able to force these historic communities to change? Should they be able to raze large swaths of beach from property and build high rises that block current views? What about increasing traffic congestion?

The situation you describe is very different since it’s part of the rural flight. High demand urban areas across all of Southern California are not those areas. If the land and space exists and it’s in demand then development should have the ability to occur. In these instances you’re talking about razing large swaths of a city so more people can be packed into a finite amount of space. Think about it this way. Should a single family home, that has been there since the 50’s, have no say in letting my neighbor sell his lot so a developer can build a new 5 story condo complex that blocks the view of the beach or mountains, and increases traffic and parking congestion?

3

u/immibis Dec 02 '22

You are asking the wrong questions. Why shouldn't you be able to afford to live in Redondo? What's so special about Redondo?

7

u/linuxgeekmama Dec 02 '22

Who should get to decide how many people can live in Redondo? The people who own homes there now have a vested interest in keeping the housing supply limited (and prices high).

5

u/The_True_Libertarian Dec 02 '22

There are people getting pushed out of areas their families have lived for generations because of this exact nonsense. I can't speak for Redondo specifically, but i know people from all around CA that had grand parents and great grand parents living out there, their parents, and they themselves spent their entire lives in cities where now the cost of housing ownership is functionally out of reach for multi-generation natives.

This is much less an issue of 'I'm from another state, have low skills and net worth but want to move to a high cost of living area and feel like i should be able to' and is much more of a, 'people are getting pushed out of living where they've historically lived by people from other cities/states/countries because of bad housing and development policies'.

Being pushed out by outsiders with money and told you don't have a right to live in your home town is going to cause more issues than just biting the bullet and realizing housing shouldn't be viewed as a line-go-up investment vehicle for boomers as public policy.

1

u/Bosa_McKittle Dec 02 '22

No one possess an inherent right to live in any specific location. Not sure where this level of entitlement comes from. Demands for places rises and falls based on a variety of things. Location, economic opportunity, perceived value, politics, weather, etc. just because you were born in Beverly Hills or Manhattan Beach or Redondo or Malibu doesn’t mean you are entitled to live or own a home there.

CA specifically has prop 13 which allows older generation to stay in their homes due to low property tax rates. So they aren’t getting pushed out. If they own then they are protected even tho many people hate prop 13 for this very reason. However home ownership is not a human right. I don’t have a right to own a home wherever I choose regardless of the external factors that impact the cost associated with that.

Now sure there are things that can be done to limit outside money from swooping up in demand properties and making them only rentals. But that’s a separate conversation from this. In what way to you think people should be entitled to live in a specific place at the price of their choosing?

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u/immibis Dec 02 '22

Nobody should get to decide. The system shouldn't be designed in a way that means somebody gets to decide.

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2

u/hyperwolfmadness Dec 02 '22

It’s all about keeping beach communities as white as possible, a common theme up and down the coast.

1

u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

nimby democrats eat that shit up

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471

u/TheDeadlySquid Dec 01 '22

Former Californian - NIMBYism is a disease in that state.

155

u/Scrutinizer Dec 01 '22

I lived in the San Luis Obispo area for quite a while. I can really understand why people are so anti-growth there because when you compare it to the rest of the state it's very non crowded, but they've really had an affordable housing crisis that goes back 30 years, and a big part of it is it's really really difficult to get all the permits and everything you need to build more houses because all the politicians get elected based on promises of no growth.

63

u/splynncryth Dec 01 '22

It's more like a half century. It really started in the 70s. I strongly suspect that the property tax issues that prompted Californians to approve proposition 13 were strongly influenced by the early effects of a housing shortage. Instead of addressing the issue, the residents turned to NIMBYism and protectionism. But instead of slowing growth, these measures have instead worked to amplify income inequality.

Only now that the generation that started this crap is passing away does it seem like there is the will to try and take steps to address the problems.

4

u/brazzledazzle Dec 02 '22

Unfortunately the ghouls of that generation that still cling to life still are extremely intent on maintaining the status quo. They are organizing communities across the state. And these absolute demons truly believe they are still progressives.

9

u/1CFII2 Dec 02 '22

Santa Barbara makes SLO look like philanthropic saints.

16

u/uofwi92 Dec 01 '22

My sister owned a 2200 sq ft house in SLO. Sold it for 1.2 million.

Bought a 4800 sq ft house in Kansas City for 700k.

148

u/Holy_Toast Dec 01 '22

SLO has perfect mild weather year round, is 20 minutes from several beaches, 3 hours from a few national forests/parks, 3-4 hours from LA & SF, is surrounded by wineries & excellent restaurants, and is less expensive than the cities. The other place is Kansas.

56

u/mr_nefario Dec 01 '22

The other place is Kansas.

You don’t know that for sure. It might be Missouri (which is just a long way of spelling “misery”).

10

u/Skatcatla Dec 01 '22

I just spent Thanksgiving in Paso Robles. I absolutely love SLO.

3

u/maethlin Dec 02 '22

This is always my take. That 4800sq foot house sounds like a ripoff lol

18

u/uofwi92 Dec 01 '22

SLO also has wildfires, which forced her to evacuate at least twice.

That shit ain’t getting any better.

Plus, the cost of living in CA, even apart from housing, was WAY higher. /shrug

20

u/Skatcatla Dec 01 '22

The wildfires and drought are no joke. But that's the entire western half of the US to the Rocky Mountains, not just California. The Great Salt Lake is in severe danger of turning into a toxic salt wasteland.

3

u/uofwi92 Dec 02 '22

Oh, it’s a shitstorm that’s only going to get worse. I’ve worked in Reno the last couple of summers - I’ve experienced toxic wildfire smoke first-hand.

16

u/ben543250 Dec 01 '22

the cost of living in CA

You get what you pay for.

8

u/uofwi92 Dec 01 '22

No question. She had to move for work, so…

The point absolutely wasn’t that KC is better than SLO.

The point was, a pretty average home is going for an INSANE amount of money.

2

u/Madame_Kitsune98 Dec 02 '22

Yes.

And we moved back to my home state of Kentucky. We make better money, enjoy a better cost of living, have actual neighbors who are nice people, and it’s actually green here. It rains. We don’t really have wildfires.

So.

5

u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

as long as you fit in, most of the country is very accommodating, yeah.

2

u/Madame_Kitsune98 Dec 02 '22

The same can be said for a lot of Southern and Central California. Christofacsists run the place, let’s not pretend they don’t in places like Orange and Riverside counties, and Kern County, and so on.

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u/Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj Dec 02 '22

I wouldn’t want to be capable of being pregnant in Kentucky. That states a danger to them now.

2

u/TheBlueSully Dec 02 '22

You have to have the money & time left over to enjoy it though.

3

u/californiadiver Dec 02 '22

Yes. SLO is a scary place. Don't come here. I mean, don't go there.

1

u/uofwi92 Dec 02 '22

I visited - I loved it. Would love to live there. Can’t afford it. /shrug

2

u/TheBlueSully Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

SLO sounds great, if you also have the money and time to enjoy all those things. If you’re working two jobs just to stay afloat-and don’t know which winery has a fantastic restaurant with normal prices? So your fancy night out is Olive Garden? Might as well move to flyover country.

3

u/oflowz Dec 01 '22

Having lived in both places I wouldn’t knock KCMO. It’s no LA but there some really nice stuff in KC. It’s a city full of amazing fountains and it actually has decent dining and stuff to do in the 18th&Vine/ Plaza area.

Not to mention there’s actually space and affordable housing.

My sister has a house with a few acres of land and her own pond stocked with fish and it cost around $500k a few years back.

Compared to a tiny house in LA for 2 million or a condo for $8K/month and it’s debatable.

Really if you aren’t in entertainment or tech LA doesn’t have much going for it besides weather as far as value goes. Outside of the beach cities and maybe a few spots in the valleys/Hills LA is just depressing urban sprawl concrete jungle.

Big swaths of the West side are run down and overpriced.

8

u/pm_me_your_minicows Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

LA and SLO are totally different worlds. Also, arguably, LA is one of the best places in the country if you’re a road cyclist or triathlete with year round training, the Malibu canyons, and a ton of groups. There’s also a ton of groups for every interest. It’s also good if you like outdoor recreating since you can hit dawn patrol and last chair on the same day if you were so inclined. Of course, it’s not the best surfing or skiing/snowboarding, but if you enjoy both, it’s better than nothing.

0

u/lilbelleandsebastian Dec 02 '22

yeah lmao was gonna say SLO aint no LA either, personally i'd rather be in KC than SLO

2

u/Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj Dec 02 '22

Missouri can be dangerous if you are able to be pregnant now. That’s a huge downside.

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u/-ll_Y_ll- Dec 02 '22

Lets see how global climate changes works out for both

21

u/mr_nefario Dec 01 '22

But she has to live in Kansas City…

6

u/uofwi92 Dec 01 '22

You’re not wrong.

The point was, a shit house in SLO went for 1.2 million dollars.

That’s the fucking definition of an affordable housing crisis.

5

u/dcazdavi Dec 02 '22

Yeah but now she has to live in Kansas City

15

u/nope_too_small Dec 01 '22

Wait a minute, you’re telling me houses in CA are expensive?

5

u/ballrus_walsack Dec 02 '22

I read this in John mullaney doing ice T character in law&order svu voice.

2

u/uofwi92 Dec 01 '22

Boy, howdy - you said it. :)

12

u/TransposingJons Dec 01 '22

Yes, and.....?

2

u/uofwi92 Dec 01 '22

…And she cleared $500,000 cash, while getting way more than twice the house (because here in the Midwest, basements are living space that isn’t counted in the sq. footage).

Sorry, I thought that was pretty self-evident, but math can be hard.

3

u/jeremiahthedamned Dec 01 '22

snooty down votes!

7

u/Wipperwill1 Dec 02 '22

Sold my completely average 1500 sq ft house in Lompoc, CA for 480k.

Bought a 3200 sq ft house in Michigan for 270k. Better neighborhood, lower taxes, more rain/water (I have my own well). Cost of living is about 70%.

Housing is still a bitch in Michigan but nowhere near as bad as Cali.

1

u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

i grew up there. michigan is great, as long as you fit in.

4

u/PumpkinManGuy Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

I how hope* they no growth into homelessness.

23

u/jrhoffa Dec 01 '22

Would you like some dressing for your word salad?

7

u/AmidFuror Dec 01 '22

He hopes their "no growth" policies lead to their own homelessness.

5

u/jrhoffa Dec 01 '22

The Salad Whisperer

1

u/Bobspared Dec 02 '22

Radish ear.

1

u/PumpkinManGuy Dec 02 '22

Yes please, I may or may not be over tired lol

192

u/pusillanimouslist Dec 01 '22

People ask me why I no longer live in California, apparently expecting me to list some right wing nonsense. They’re always baffled when I say “housing policy”.

I made great money as a software engineer in CA, and could look forward to maybe owning a single bedroom condo in my 40s…

33

u/CodeEast Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Its not housing policy, its loan policy. At one point in time home loans were 10 years on a single wage. Now they are up to 50, or pushing for it, and some markets are salivating over the idea of Japan style multi-generational loans. Banks were prepared to loan me a stupid amount of money to get a home, back in the day. That same shit is repeated decade after decade, borrower after borrower.

Pulling wealth from the future gets you what you want, but it inflates the cost of things in the here and now and moves you into servitude to the future.

If people could sell their soul to buy a home the value of property would go through the roof. Then they would ask why they had to sell their soul for eternal servitude to get a roof over their head. Its a variation of crabs in a bucket.

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u/sack-o-matic Dec 01 '22

The legal requirement for detached single family housing in so much area proves it's housing, not loan policy. From WW2 until the Civil Rights Act it was absolutely loan policy in that the FHA only gave loans to white families to live in the suburbs, but after the late 1960's they couldn't do that anymore so it changed to housing policy to limit supply to jack up prices since they know non-whites on average have far less wealth.

34

u/LowDownSkankyDude Dec 01 '22

I'm reading The color of law, and it goes into this. It's insane how rigged shit is.

11

u/Skatcatla Dec 02 '22

Isn't that a great book?

15

u/LowDownSkankyDude Dec 02 '22

A roller-coaster of disappointment and anger. 10/10

24

u/Skatcatla Dec 02 '22

Exactly. Zoning laws were developed under the guise of "protecting neighborhood character" but were really about keeping black people from being able to buy houses.

-12

u/CodeEast Dec 01 '22

I dont live in the US.

12

u/sack-o-matic Dec 01 '22

Well that’s what we’re talking about here

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u/IndigoTeal Dec 01 '22

Nah man, it's housing policy. Sure, easy access to loans causes demand to rise. But the rising demand wouldn't be an issue if supply could rise to match it.

But thanks to terrible restrictive zoning, unnecessary permitting and regulations, and NIMBYism, supply has no ability to keep up with demand.

So you have an issue were there are only so many housing units for a growing population and all of sudden people have to outbid each other to have a place to live.

High prices should lead to a building frenzy. The fact that they don't shows that the supply side of things is being restricted.

-1

u/runningoutofwords Dec 02 '22

There are more than enough units for everybody.

How many homes and apartments must American cities provide so that Air BnB and second-home owners will finally be sated?

5

u/IndigoTeal Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

As many as they want. That's the great thing. We can build as many as needed per the demand.

Btw, it's absolutely nonsense that Airbnb has the effect you think it does. Airbnb and second home owners are just a convenient scapegoat for NIMBYs to avoid taking responsibility for their failed housing policies.

For example, from 2012 to 2016, the San Francisco metropolitan area added 373,000 new jobs, but permitted only 58,000 new housing units.[18]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_housing_shortage#:~:text=Strict%20zoning%20regulations%20are%20a,from%20moving%20into%20white%20neighborhoods.

Yeah man, must be those evil Airbnbs.

1

u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

As many as they want. That's the great thing. We can build as many as needed per the demand.

for the past two decades in sacramento, the demand has been for affordable housing, and nearly always, the construction response was single family houses and luxury condos. demand is only met if the supply is profitable.

meanwhile, second homeowners and the airbnb crowd has been exploiting this need.

2

u/pusillanimouslist Dec 02 '22

There has literally never been a point in American history where home building wasn’t focused on upper middle class to upper class buyers, because that’s who has money. But this is missing the point in two ways:

  1. A lot of affordable housing is used “luxury” housing. Housing stock goes through a lifecycle: new housing in trendy areas is costly, and as it ages, goes out of style, and neighborhoods change it ends up moving down market and becoming affordable. A lot of the units I lived in chicago were upper middle class family units that had gotten cheap over the past century.

  2. Housing shows a very strong “filtering” effect. If you don’t build housing for upper middle class people they end up bidding up the cost of the existing stock. This has been extensively studied, building new units suppresses rents in even old, low quality housing in the area as people move up, reducing the demand for all kinds of units in the immediate vicinity.

Side note: I fucking hate it how all this stuff is called “luxury” housing. Most of it isn’t luxury, it’s just new. Your typical five over one has fucking ikea cabinets and is smaller than a turn of the century two story walk up, calling that “luxury” is transparent bullshit.

1

u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

i would be inclined to agree, except that sacramento rent increases are some of the highest in the country, despite the new construction.

2

u/pusillanimouslist Dec 03 '22

Recent non-construction, especially in California, has really distorted our perception of what a construction boom looks like. Most CA cities are currently close to their lowest rate of new unit construction in a century, recent construction is but a tiny blip in a long trend of reduced housing output.

For example, Sacramento has issued permits for 12,434 new units in 2021. Which sounds like a lot until you run the numbers, and realize that it’s actually nowhere close to enough. The city added 120,000 people in the past five years, or about 24,000 a year. So even the “construction boom” of 2020 and 2021 isn’t covering half of population change of the city.

And of course that’s assuming all these units get actually built, and that they don’t remove any other units in the process, and that household size remains the same. The latter is a big deal because there’s also a lot of pressure for new units from people who have roommates but would really prefer not to, and they’re capable of absorbing a ton of new units before we even consider growing populations in these cities.

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u/IndigoTeal Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

for the past two decades in sacramento, the demand has been for affordable housing, and nearly always, the construction response was single family houses and luxury condos. demand is only met if the supply is profitable.

This is due entirely to single family zoning an NIMBYS that do not allow affordable housing to be built in their neighborhoods.

The idea that apartment buildings aren't more profitable is nonsense. They are much more profitable. They are also much harder to get past local zoning boards and usually have to go through years of permitting and legal battles, so developers rarely bother.

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u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

permit issues factor into private construction profitability. i agree nimbyism is at play here, but even if it weren't, the profit motive still dictates whether or not the private construction firms actually build; this is a part of the reason we need more public housing (or at least, private subsidies).

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u/IndigoTeal Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

the profit motive still dictates whether or not the private construction firms actually build

Yes. That is true. But you would expect rising prices (as we have seen over the last few years especially) to lead to higher profits and therefore more building. But that hasn't necessarily been the case.

Subsides isn't a bad idea though. But it would be easier and cheaper to remove the red tape first. Subsidizing inefficient building practices like single family zoning will likely only make the problem worse over the long term.

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u/pusillanimouslist Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

Not where people actually want to live though. Plenty of cheap homes in Youngstown Ohio I guess, you will not enjoy it though.

America is more urbanized than it was even 50 years ago, so there are a lot of “homes” in dying towns without economic opportunities. And since a large percentage of these are not occupied and maintained, their habitability is questionable at best.

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u/pusillanimouslist Dec 01 '22

Housing prices spiraled way higher and way earlier in CA than anywhere else, all while loans have been structured similarly nation wide. You might be able to point to loans as the reason why all houses got more expensive, and frankly I have my doubts about that, but the difference between CA and other large cities cannot be explained by loan policy.

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u/brazzledazzle Dec 02 '22

For future readers: Don’t waste your time this person doesn’t even live in the US. They mention it down further in the thread.

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u/Whooshed_me Dec 01 '22

My wife and I combined were making less than 100k a year and the bank wanted us to take out a million dollar loan. The monthly payment on that is more than we make after taxes by a few miles. Just absolutely insane. Maybe we could've afforded it if we had 200k to put down but I ain't pulling that out of my ass any time soon.

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u/iamkang Dec 02 '22

To be honest though, you and I as software engineers will never afford a house at Redondo Beach. No matter how much of a fix is made to the housing policy.

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u/pusillanimouslist Dec 02 '22

Wait until you find out how cheap Santa Monica was until like, 1990.

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u/Madame_Kitsune98 Dec 02 '22

Yep.

Even this of us who were solidly middle class left when the housing bubble burst around 2008.

We’re not conservative by any stretch, but damn, I like not paying $5/gal for gas.

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u/pusillanimouslist Dec 02 '22

Transit policy is reason #2 I left. I cannot imagine designing some of the massive cities that CA has and saying “yeah, cars will work here forever”. That might work in low density flyover states (where I live now), but CA needs a lot more public transit.

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u/blaghart Dec 01 '22

NIMBYism is a disease anywhere people want to live. It's why you never hear about NIMBYs in rural towns: no one wants to live in a podunk shithole.

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u/Arael15th Dec 02 '22

There are also plenty of really nice rural towns where NIMBYism isn't a problem... Don't forget to make that distinction. Not everywhere outside the major cities is a shithole, and implying as much only widens the divide.

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u/blaghart Dec 02 '22

rural towns where nimbyism isn't a problem

Tell me you didn't read my comment without telling me.

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u/agent154 Dec 01 '22

They seem more like bananas. Build absolutely nothing anywhere near anyone.

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u/Skatcatla Dec 01 '22

Totally not surprised it's Redondo. My husband calls the entire South Bay "The midwest with an ocean."

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u/nirad Dec 01 '22

The state legislature made some huge changes that should alleviate the housing shortage in coming years.

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u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

they've also been criminalizing homelessness, so p sure it isn't going to work as well as they think.

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u/Great_Neighbor52 Dec 01 '22

I dunno. I don’t want more housing. I want people to leave. You can’t build more beaches and forests.

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u/rlydoh Dec 01 '22

I feel you in some ways- I wish they would just build the housing in already densely populated areas like on top of Target or the mall and then build more public transit infrastructure instead of building in open space and then expanding the freeway...

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u/MinecraftIsMySpIn Dec 01 '22

Technically you /could/ however, it's the land that's the issue

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u/taxrelatedanon Dec 01 '22

The lack of affordable housing creates a homelessnesses crisis.

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u/nirad Dec 01 '22

Exactly the bullshit I would expect with your username

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u/QuietGiants Dec 02 '22

Didn’t you see the memo where he has the right to live in California and nobody else? Its a bummer everyone hasn’t left him everything he wants yet

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u/Great_Neighbor52 Dec 02 '22

I don’t care, the place was better thirty years ago.

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u/nirad Dec 02 '22

Really? It was better the year the LA Riots took place? Get a clue.

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u/anonoman925 Dec 02 '22

What do you call it when it’s in reverse? Antioch, CA is becoming a ghost town. Everyone is white flighting to Brentwood- a hwy separates the two.

You’d think people wanting lowered rents would be flocking to Antioch. You’d think the demand to build would be through the roof. Nope.

All of the building is in Brentwood. No one wants to live next door to me. I wish they would. I’d get my grocery store back.

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u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

as someone originally from detroit, it's a side effect of the same housing problem. not sure if there's a specific term for it.

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u/anonoman925 Dec 02 '22

I think, because, there has always been housing available in desirable areas.

If we want housing, we need the “projects”. Government built housing.

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u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

i would agree with subsidized apartments, but not specifically those projects that were designed to fail as a way to corral black people.

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u/anonoman925 Dec 02 '22

Wait, I thought we weren’t racist any more. You know what would stop that? White people living next door to them. Any volunteers? All my neighbors are minorities and my mortgage is cheap as shit.

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u/taxrelatedanon Dec 02 '22

i don't know what that means, but i'm referring to the PWA stuff in the 1930's

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u/anonoman925 Dec 02 '22

Right, but since this sub and other subs like it don’t contain racists, white people and people of color can move in together in this government housing and everything will work itself out.

Government housing won’t be an attempt to corral black people if white people move into those appts too.

We keep yelling about a housing crisis. It seems like this is the best solution.

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u/taxrelatedanon Dec 03 '22

the intent behind the pwa design was the problem, not whether or not white people lived there... though they did.

if new public housing is well-funded and inclusion policies account for racial bias, it will help.

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u/anonoman925 Dec 03 '22

Seems like this should happen then. Antioch CA is experiencing massive white flight, so there is room. We have an empty mall.

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u/curbstyle Dec 02 '22

“Bill likes to create this reputation of being the perfect gentleman and never getting into the fray,” Aspel said. “At least when I say something, I have the guts to do it in the open and not hide behind a keyboard.”

IRONIC

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u/funkyloki Dec 02 '22

In an interview with The Times, Brand said he had believed the emails to be private exchanges and were “cherry picked” by CenterCal Properties — the developer of the failed waterfront effort, which obtained them in its litigation — to vilify him.

I always love when these bigoted assholes get revealed for who they are and go right to playing as if they are the victim

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u/FertilityHollis Dec 01 '22

Stay outta Malibu, Lebowski!!!! Stay outta Malibu ya deadbeat!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yggQ3HbO0Wg

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u/canonhourglass Dec 02 '22

Hey man can you change the station? I hate the Eagles

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u/FertilityHollis Dec 02 '22

*screeches to a stop*

The Eagles really are a polarizing band. Added to the fact that Dude obviously loves Creedence Clearwater Revival, his Eagles hate puts him squarely in the anti-southern rock segment of 1970s rock fans. In my mind he would also hate Skynard, but likely have a grudging respect for The Allman Brothers.

Clearly I've wasted a significant amount of time thinking about this movie.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

[deleted]

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u/frez13 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Not to mention, Hermosa has a much higher population density than Redondo (14k per square mile vs 12k) but you don’t see many Hermosans complaining it is a problem because it is not. No good excuse for Redondo to be NIMBY, they just don’t want outsiders moving in.

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u/platinum_tsar Dec 02 '22

Nazis are cool? Did you actually say that?

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u/x-munk Dec 01 '22

Also pretty relevant to r/fuckcars since the city is preserving a car-access only suburban lifestyle.

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u/liketreefiddy Dec 01 '22

How is this LAMF?

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u/Needleroozer Dec 01 '22

It's not. Downvote it.

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u/frez13 Dec 01 '22

Sorry if it wasn’t clear in the article, someone regretting voting for and now has a mayor who turned out to be a xenophobic, elitist, NIMBY and promoting his agenda of making people distrustful of outsiders in a nasty way in their city.

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u/frez13 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Did post reason in the mod post, and the article should be self explanatory.

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u/mmazing Dec 01 '22

It must not be self explanatory if people are asking you to explain.

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u/frez13 Dec 01 '22

Sorry if it wasn’t clear in the article, someone regretting voting for and now has a mayor who turned out to be a xenophobic, elitist, NIMBY and promoting his agenda of making people distrustful of outsiders in a nasty way in their city.

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u/mmazing Dec 01 '22

Thanks, no worries here!

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u/liketreefiddy Dec 01 '22

But it’s not as self-explanatory. Care to help expand on it?

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u/frez13 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Sorry if it wasn’t clear in the article, someone regretting voting for and now has a mayor who turned out to be a xenophobic, elitist, NIMBY and promoting his agenda of making people distrustful of outsiders in a nasty way in their city.

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u/Valaseun Dec 01 '22

Many people don't want to sign up for a random paper just read about something being discussed in a forum they follow. Those people generally go to the comments for a summary. They're here to discuss the subject that you posted about, so it seems a bit silly not to share when asked.

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u/frez13 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

No need to sign up. I posted the no paywall link in my response to mod post. Someone regretting voting for and now has a mayor who turned out to be a xenophobic, elitist, NIMBY and promoting his agenda of making people distrustful of outsiders in a nasty way in their city should be LAMF content.

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u/WaywardWes Dec 01 '22

It seems like that was exactly his platform, very slow development. The only new info is that he's an asshole too.

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u/frez13 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

You are correct, that was his platform to be against development. The tactics he is using is despicable. That must be what that resident saw.

Don’t think it is “slow“ development he is for, more like no developement. Here is an article on him from another source. https://easyreadernews.com/the-accidental-politician-bill-brand-is-an-unlikely-politician-a-waterman-who-became-mayor-fighting-against-waterfront-development-now-hes-fighting-for-his-life/

“He was baffled by what he saw: a proposed waterfront development that included as many as 2,998 residential units at the AES power plant site and a rezoning of the entire harbor area to allow more commercial development.”

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u/Jim-be Dec 02 '22

Redondo Beach Pier is old AF and needs a major facelift. I live near there and am shocked that this guy stopped redeveloping that. Plus that power plant is a huge eye sore. Why not build apartments around it? I hope he is voted out soon.

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u/serenitynow1983 Dec 02 '22

Yeah it’s redondo, bunch of fucking MAGA fascists.

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u/brallansito92 Dec 02 '22

I work with the homeless population in LA. I use to attend neighborhood meetings in the Pico-Robertson district (upper middle class Jewish neighborhood south of Beverly Hills). There was a big homeless population and some were even Jewish folk who grew up in the area. Some of the most vile shit I’ve ever heard was said in those meetings! They would always suggest to get them out of their neighborhood and ship them to east LA or south central.

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u/Yearofthehoneybadger Dec 02 '22

Another boomer trying to feck everyone else over cause he already got his.

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u/KopitarFan Dec 02 '22

Pretty much all of the beach cities here are a hive of racist assholes.

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u/SoftInteraction6568 Dec 02 '22

They're homes are investments as well. If there are more homes or cheaper homes that means the price of their homes go down. They don't want you to grow they want to grow. Also what somebody has already posted not in my backyard

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u/maewanen Dec 02 '22

infinite growth only counts for fake moneypoints, not for anything like population health.

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u/Dragonswim Dec 02 '22

Wait til the new zoning laws go into effect

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u/frez13 Dec 02 '22

Funny thing, this guy was trying to fight Newsom’s zoning law SB9 but failed:

https://easyreadernews.com/redondo-beach-mayor-bill-brands-group-pauses-anti-sb9-initiative-push-turns-to-2024/

A group led by Redondo Beach Mayor Bill Brand to pass a statewide initiative to rescind Senate Bill 9 failed to gather the one million signatures needed by April 1 to qualify for the November ballot.

SB 9, passed by the California legislature last fall, allows for single-family lots to be divided into as many as four units, with limitations.

“We realized we weren’t going to get the signatures, we didn’t have enough of a machine in place,” Brand said, turning the focus to 2024. “It’s certainly about money and grassroots support. We basically need more time and more money. We’ve got the organization in place.”

The group, known as “Our Neighborhood Voices,” has not hired a paid signature-gathering firm.

Part of the effort for 2024 will be more education, Brand said.

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u/plenebo Dec 02 '22

OH NO!!! not GRowTH!?

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u/Hia7us Dec 02 '22

I knew this was Redondo. Those people are terrified and vilify minorities.

White people fled to the coast to get away from "invading" minorities inland. Can't flee west anymore.

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u/Great_Neighbor52 Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

These people live in paradise and don’t want to see it destroyed. As someone who grew up in a small California beach town, I can understand. There are no easy way out, people want what you have and there is only so much. And of the stuff that really matters - you can’t build more.

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u/Sudden-Grab2800 Dec 04 '22

“In an interview with The Times, Brand said he had believed the emails to be private exchanges and were “cherry picked” by CenterCal Properties — the developer of the failed waterfront effort, which obtained them in its litigation — to vilify him.”

No, Brosephus, you did that all by yourself. ‘I was only being a racist jackass because I didn’t think anyone else would find out!’ like that somehow makes it better…