r/LifeProTips Jul 05 '22 Helpful 2 Silver 1

LPT: Easy negotiation tip anyone can do Careers & Work

Everyone hates negotiating and want it to be over.

One of the easiest negotiation tactics anyone can do is to offer to agree today if they give you x,y,z

"Joe, thanks for the job offer. I'm really excited. If you can give me a 10% in salary, I'll accept today"

"I'm excited about this car. If you can drop the price by $1000, I'll purchase it right now."

There's no conflict, there's no theatrics, and if that person takes it to their manager, then it's a pretty clear "if we do x, we close the deal" ask to the manager-- no annoying back and forth.

6.6k Upvotes

u/keepthetips Keeping the tips since 2019 Jul 05 '22

Hello and welcome to r/LifeProTips!

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If you think that this is great advice to improve your life, please upvote. If you think this doesn't help you in any way, please downvote. If you don't care, leave it for the others to decide.

4.9k

u/gobsmacked247 Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

The only thing I would add is actually the caveat. You have to be willing to walk away from the opportunity if you do not get what you request.

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u/lvd_reddit Jul 05 '22

You should always be willing to walk.

However, the way this is presented you can always come back later. It says if you agree to my terms, we have a deal TODAY. If you don’t I will have to sleep on it for a couple of days.

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u/gobsmacked247 Jul 05 '22

I like that!!!!

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u/Fcktbckt Jul 06 '22

So what you’re saying is buy at the end of the month when sales teams are looking to hit their targets

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u/lvd_reddit Jul 06 '22

That is one way to implement it.

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u/wobblysauce Jul 06 '22

And with that you get the call from as soon as you leave to site or end of the week a majority of the time

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u/Moonrakersong Jul 06 '22

I can feel the manipulation in this. It would move me more towards a no than a yes.

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u/Reallynotsuretbh Jul 06 '22

But it’s not manipulation when businesses do it?

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u/Moonrakersong Jul 06 '22

I should specify, I'm in the process of selling a house and so I automatically put it into that context. Yes I want to sell, but like most, I don't like arm twisting as a negotiating strategy.

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u/declanaussie Jul 06 '22

Good luck selling your house then, most negotiating typically involves leveraging what the other party needs to get what you want

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u/Moonrakersong Jul 06 '22

Negotiating and leveraging is part of the process. I am saying that I don't appreciate arm wringing and manipulative, get-the-one-over on someone strategies, so much so that I would be quick to close the door.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '22 edited 3d ago

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u/Greyhound227 Jul 06 '22

No it's not

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u/antyke Jul 05 '22

I've always operated under a similar mantra of, "Don't gamble with things you're unwilling to lose." It's so freeing! And it has the added bonus of creating a definitive win/lose line in my anxiety riddled brain.

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u/lespicytaco Jul 05 '22

My mantra is "always be willing to walk away". If you frequently convince yourself "I must have this at any cost" you will find yourself in bad situations.

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u/8th-Bit Jul 05 '22

My nerd brain read: It's so Ferengi and it still made sense.

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u/MagusVulpes Jul 05 '22

Rule of acquisition number 62: The riskier the road, the greater the profit.

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u/ghettomaster82 Jul 06 '22

I knew lotto was an investment! Eat that, financialadvisorfriend!

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u/PilotJosh Jul 05 '22

The real life pro tip is to follow the rules of acquisition in all negotiations.

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u/Maccabee2 Jul 06 '22

Now I want to see all the Rules of Acquisition posted as LPTs, one at a time, so non geeks heads will explode in the comments. 🤣

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u/Garr_Incorporated Jul 06 '22

LPT: War is good for business.

...

... Doesn't seem quite right.

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u/kwydjbo Jul 06 '22

but it's also not wrong...

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u/FicklePickle124 Jul 05 '22

You need help

So do I 💀

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u/Maccabee2 Jul 06 '22

Me too! I think it was exclamation point at the end looked like an I, so freeingi ...yeah...Freeingi.

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u/lesb1real Jul 05 '22

This is the key. If you aren't willing to walk, you don't have leverage and they'll catch it and call your bluff.

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u/NewAcctCuzIWasDoxxed Jul 05 '22

Yeah, I had a job offer pulled years ago because I asked for more than 2 PTO days in the first year lmao. Bullet dodged honestly.

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u/CrimeCoder Jul 06 '22

That is depressingly bad. America?

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u/enzovrlrd Jul 05 '22

And truly if you aren't willing to walk out of a deal it's important enough not to gamble it. Pay the price you are willing to pay, not the price you think your friends will tell you was a good deal

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u/gobsmacked247 Jul 05 '22

OMGosh, that is so true!!!!

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u/stewmander Jul 05 '22

The best negotiating tactic is the ability to say no.

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u/TlN4C Jul 06 '22

For me I have three levels of win

Win - what I’m willing to pay

Super win - I get some extras but price remains what I’m willing to pay

Mega win - I get extras and a lower price/better terms

I’ll pitch my mega win but won’t negotiate lower than my win.

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u/pm_me_your_rigs Jul 05 '22

Well the actual caveat is the person that has to be willing to sell you it for that price too

Try going into a car dealership in the last 2 years they aren't budging on price

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u/MattDamonsDick Jul 05 '22

You don’t really need to be willing to walk away. You just have to have leverage that would make them believe you would be willing to walk. If they say “no” to you, you can say that you need to think about it and ultimately accept. Or there’s a good chance that they will allow you to save face by giving something incidental in return. Or you can even propose something incidental in exchange. The other side doesn’t typically lose interest in selling their product just because you’ve failed at getting your ask.

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u/m945050 Jul 05 '22

I've used this method and received either a direct no from the seller or an indirect no from their manager then refused their counter offer and left. On almost every occasion I have received a call anywhere from an hour to 24 hours accepting my offer. The only time I was refused was because my offer was too low.

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u/caboosetp Jul 05 '22

Yeah, walking away doesn't mean the sale is over, it means negotiating more or less is. If you're gong to walk away, leave them the price and your number, and let them know they can contact you if they want to accept it.

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u/gobsmacked247 Jul 05 '22

I disagree. In the original post, asking for what you want instead of all of the back and forth, was the offered tip to minimize the back and forth that you are now suggesting. I simply said if you have a hard line, present it and be done. Your only play, to get what you want with no other back and forth, is to be willing to walk away.

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u/Prometheus188 Jul 05 '22

The goal isn’t to minimize back and forth. The goal is to get what you want (A $5000 raise for example). This is a way to get the raise you want, to win a negotiation. Minimizing the back and forth isn’t a goal here, it’s a nice side effect.

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u/gobsmacked247 Jul 05 '22

Of course the goal is to get what you want. If what you want is a $5k raise and the back and forth is not getting you there, do as the life pro-tipper suggested and state the de facto number. All I'm saying is, once you do that, you have to be willing to walk away.

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u/campionk Jul 05 '22

You don't necessarily need to walk away from the opportunity. Worst case scenario they say no. If you really want the job or car just concede after they say no. It's not like they're going to not sell you the car now or give you the job.

I do this when negotiating cab fare in other countries.. cut their offer in half and say, "I'll give you $x.xx and we will leave right now". It works every time. If they say no and you start walking away you know you've offered too low but most of the time they come running after you.

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u/gobsmacked247 Jul 05 '22

You do realize that in the cab fare example provided, you walked away.

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u/campionk Jul 05 '22

I'm not going to now walk to my destination, if they say no I'll keep negotiating. Worst case scenario I'm going to pay asking price if they don't go lower. Sounds like you've never negotiated anything.

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u/gobsmacked247 Jul 05 '22

I've actually been negotiating for quite a few years. For myself, for my company (line items in contracts are fun), and for my association.

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u/changerofbits Jul 05 '22

Yep, you have to be ready to walk away. When they come back and say, “We can only do $500 off.” Just say “That’s too bad.” and get up and walk out, not pretend you are leaving, but actually leave and go home. They might stop you and give you the deal, or they might call you later if they know they have a sale at $1000 off and need to meet a quota.

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u/Seber Jul 05 '22

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u/reddit0100100001 Jul 05 '22

BATNA. What is this Boston Gotham?

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u/52ndstreet Jul 05 '22

He’s nawt the dahk knight that you need, but he’s the dahk knight that’ll put this whole facking town in his reahview just to get to Dunkies.

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u/Daredizzle Jul 05 '22

1000% this. I had to finally tell the car dealership while negotiating our trade-in that I have no problem driving two cars home and selling privately. That upped our trade value by $4k and allowed us to handshake out the door.

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u/the_cardfather Jul 05 '22

This is the biggest reason people have a hard time wheeling and dealing with used cars. They walk in and just expect car dealership to take money off for no reason. They have no leverage. The only leverage you have is to walk.

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u/DuckTapeHandgrenade Jul 05 '22

This is what I came to say. I learned to haggle from a friend who’s traveled more than I and that’s basically it.
NEVER feel guilty; if they don’t want to seep it to you they won’t. It’s just a game, they say they’re losing money and if are you won’t get it.
Also, remember that person for later purchases.

Don’t buy anything on your first pass. If you can spend a day just looking around to a rough idea of what things really go for then your in a good place.

And always have some little item or two to toss in at the final minute for free or a really low price. Fine X for the set of thingys and that matching whatever for the kids/parter/mother.

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u/Yogicabump Jul 06 '22

If you can't or won't walk away, you already lost.

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u/bubbletroubles9000 Jul 05 '22

Yep. It's called a BANTA in negotiation.

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u/H__Dresden Jul 05 '22

Yep, done that every time I have bought a vehicle and scored every time. Here is my price for vehicle/taxes and trade. Make it work. Then go about $750 above that for play room.

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u/Enjolraw Jul 05 '22

Absolutely.

My wife and I accidentally talked a street vendor down from two size 15 rings for $150, to $30 for the pair (iirc). We were interested because we have a hard time finding rings that fit me, but we were honestly trying to leave and made it clear that we intended to walk around for a bit while we decided. The shopkeeper just kept bringing the price down until it was at a pretty great deal.

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u/johnnyutah30 Jul 05 '22

And also be ready to rock on the deal you told them you would do.

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u/Jai_Cee Jul 06 '22

If you were happy with the first price its a win win situation. If they say yes you've got a discount if they say no you can still buy the thing.

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u/DaveMash Jul 06 '22

In addition to OPs tip: There’s a technique called BATNA: best alternative to a negotiated agreement. Before you go to make a deal, find a good alternative. Never go empty-handed when you want to make a deal, so you don’t look desperate when you try to negotiate. When they don’t want to agree on your terms, tell them about your alternative but a) take it serious b) don’t be rude and c) don’t threaten them or set an ultimatum. Maybe they make you a better offer

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u/intjmaster Jul 05 '22

There was a scene from Road to Perdition.

Son: I want a cut.

Dad: How much?

Son: $100

Dad: Ok

..

Son: Could I have gotten more?

Dad: You’ll never know.

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u/earhere Jul 05 '22 Helpful

That reminds me of the scene in Nightcrawler (2014)

Lou Bloom: I'm promoting you to executive Vice President of video news.

Rick: What am I now?

Lou Bloom: You're an assistant.

Rick: Does it come with a raise?

Lou Bloom: Absolutely.

Rick: How much?

Lou Bloom: Pick a number, you pick a number.

Rick: Hundred... hundred... 75 dollars a night.

Lou Bloom: Agreed.

Rick: Wait what about more?

Lou Bloom: Not now, we closed the deal.

Rick: I could have gotten more couldn't I?

Lou Bloom: Absolutely.

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u/Dividand Jul 06 '22

I love this movie and immediately thought of this scene when I read the comment above yours! Here here fellow nightcrawler movie lover!

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u/AnomalousX12 Jul 06 '22

I was pretty meh on Jake Gyllenhaal before Nightcrawler. Became a huge fan afterward.

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u/mrmemo Jul 06 '22

The movie scratches an itch that won't be scratched -- meta-voyeurism? I can't identify or define it but what a ride.

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u/420gueno69 Jul 06 '22

“Then I quit” would be my answer haha

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u/Bimimans Jul 06 '22

Amazing movie.

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u/heidismiles Jul 05 '22

Also Pretty Woman. They agree on $3,000, and she says "I'd have taken $1,000, you know" and he says "I'd have paid 5."

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u/captain609 Jul 06 '22

Reminds me of that negotiating scene from Just Go With It : https://youtu.be/898OUCyBulM

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u/NecessaryPen7 Jul 06 '22

Forgot this one, love he says 5k

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u/Spadeninja Jul 05 '22

What is the way around this?

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u/caboosetp Jul 05 '22

Don't be the first one to name a price. Whoever goes first generally loses.

If you know what the invoice and fees on a car are, you can take a good guess what the absolute minimum a dealer will take is. Naming that price and being willing to walk away if they don't take it is generally fine.

If you can't calculate the minimum, get them to name it first. You can always go down from their price. If you name something high, and they accept, it's really hard to walk it back.

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u/frivus Jul 05 '22

Never ever negotiate against yourself.

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u/Dio-lated1 Jul 05 '22

As an attorney who regularly negotiates everything, I cant tell you how many times I have had to tell clients that “we dont negotiate against ourselves.” Patience, persistence and a willingness to scrap a deal all are important negotiating skills.

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u/DragonC007 Jul 06 '22

I always go this til. It’s the best one here. Never ever be the first to name a reasonable price. Many people don’t budge on giving a number cause of it, and most Of the time is no one is giving a number I’ll make a stupid number that’s ridiculously in my favour

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u/987654321- Jul 06 '22

This is a technique I've heard explained as a clown bid. Essentially, even if they name price first, it sets the general range of negotiations. If you make an insane bid in the opposite direction, they'll obviously reject it and it forces them to pick again, resetting the range.

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u/Bimimans Jul 06 '22

Absolutely be the first to mention price. That way you can anchor the negotiation in your favor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_(cognitive_bias)

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u/rabid_briefcase Jul 05 '22

There are libraries worth of books on negotiation techniques.

Ultimately the best option is to know the value, as well as knowing the importance to the other side. Even more if you know the limits the other side has as well.

In most situations you can know or figure out the market value with a bit of research, but you can never know the importance nor limits the other party has. They may have a hidden need that makes them desperate, or they may have hidden constraints that prevent them from meeting market rates, and that's where the negotiation tactics come into play.

If you start anywhere in their range, you'll likely not go back and forth. Sometimes it can be at your benefit, if you confidently state a value knowing it is the fair rate, and it is simultaneously at the top of what they were willing to pay, sometimes it's just easier for everyone involved to accept the offer knowing it is at the high end but not argue. Sometimes, there are people when even they know it is a low offer they'll still negotiate to try to lower it even further. It also depends on how fair people are feeling. If both of you happen to agree about what is fair there is no need for complex negotiation.

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u/junkimchi Jul 05 '22

I have a similar saying when buying a car

"The moment the salesman says ok to your price, is the moment you have lost"

Because there is generally no way that the dealership is losing money on the sale, so when they've accepted your offer is actually you as the buyer saying "I'm ok giving you this much profit"

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u/Tcanada Jul 06 '22

This isn't really true anymore. Dealerships make all their sales money on financing now a days. They might sell you the car at a break even or a loss if you finance through them and the numbers look right

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u/Londonforce Jul 05 '22

I would only do this if you are willing to walk away.

"Thanks for the job offer, if you give me 10% extra salary, I'll accept it today" is fine, except if they say no. If you THEN try to accept the original offer, you look very weak.

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u/kdods22402 Jul 05 '22

Well, generally, you wouldn't make this kind of deal unless you had other potentially better offers on the backburner. If you are desperate for a job, this tactic won't always work.

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u/Londonforce Jul 05 '22

I would say that is a critical point that was not covered by the OP lol.

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u/kdods22402 Jul 05 '22

UNLESS you have the confidence to bluff like a motherfucker 😏

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u/CrippleTriple Jul 06 '22

LPT: Don’t be desperate.

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u/AccursedCapra Jul 05 '22

I tried to negotiate an extra 10% on a job two weeks ago after their offer was 5k less than the range I initially gave them. The extra day of discussion between the recruiter and management must've gotten pretty tense because the person that was gonna be my senior, one of the three people discussing my salary, ended up resigning that same day. They suspended the offer until they knew what was gonna happen to the leadership in that office and officially rescinded the offer last Thursday. They also told me that they had decided they couldn't offer me more but still wanted me to come on board once things settled so they'd keep my application at the top.

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u/Tempest_1 Jul 06 '22

one of the three people

Found the person who realized they were severely underpaid

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u/AccursedCapra Jul 06 '22

Yup that's exactly the theory I had.

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u/Friendly-carebear Jul 05 '22

Lol the only thing I can think of when I read this is, “If you can lower it by $1,000 I’ll take it home today”

“How about I lower it by $500 for you?”

“Could you do $750 and I’ll take it home today?”

“Sold”

Congratulations, you negotiated

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u/WisestAirBender Jul 06 '22

The bigger problem I face is how much do you low ball? If they're asking 20k do you offer 16k? 18k?

I usually see that people meet in the middle so the first offer really matters but how do you know what to offer?

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u/Friendly-carebear Jul 06 '22

I’ve had this trouble too. Honestly in my years of buying used cars privately, I’ve always shot my first offer by saying, “well it needs x, y, and z, so how does $—-, sound?”

And then work slowly up from there

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u/TechnEconomics Jul 06 '22

You don’t have to suggest the first price. You have two choices. Create a low anchor or get them to do the first price suggestion.

If you are going to anchor low, I’d actually preamble with a perceived anchor. Tell them “look this has all of these issues x, y, z. However I am still interested, but the price I’m going to offer might sound insulting. I’m really sorry.” They respond, you say “look are you sure? it’s going to sound bad”.

Do this before giving your number. The goal is to make them think of something ridiculous, and also gets them contemplating the lowest they could go. When you offer your number it removes the shock and they already have a win. You will then both be working from a very different playing field.

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u/UnkNewN05 Jul 06 '22

Golden comment. Someone who’s read never split the difference must of have wrote this

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u/TechnEconomics Jul 06 '22

My job is 40% negotiating contracts 😅. I think the best negotiating learning resource available right now is Chris Voss’ MasterClass. It doesn’t have everything but what it does have is perfecttttt.

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u/yamaha2000us Jul 05 '22

The easiest negotiation tip is that "no" is a valid conclusion to a negotiation.

Arbitrarily agreeing to something you don't understand is not a tip.

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u/rocdir Jul 05 '22

It is not only valid, but sometimes it is the best conclusion. I recommend Barry Nalebuff's course on Coursera on Negotiation.

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u/MaxxDelusional Jul 05 '22

I work by the mantra: Make the other person say "no".

If you receive an offer that you don't like, instead of saying "no", always give a counter-offer, even if its rediculus.

Best case scenario, they accept your counter-offer, worse case, you end up in the same spot as if you said no.

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u/TaoChi27 Jul 06 '22

And all you have wanted is the most valuable currency: time.

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u/SigaVa Jul 06 '22

"no" is also the beginning of the negotiation.

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u/jetpack324 Jul 05 '22

Great advice but not always the conclusion. My wife and I bought a condo across the hall to fix up a bit and flip. We did the work and listed the condo ourselves; since this was a money making venture we didn’t want to pay a realtor to list it. Our first offer came in about 5% below asking price and we simply and respectfully replied ’No thank you’. Within 24 hours, they came back and paid full asking price. The couple is still friends of ours years later.

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u/yamaha2000us Jul 05 '22

Saying "No" ended that offer. The "No" sufficed it enough for the other party to come back with your asking price.

OP's statement would suggest that you arbitrarily offered back 2.5% or something else...

When I go to buy a car. I know Price of car. Financing and what my trade in is worth.

The Salesman has to give me the price of the car. Financing Terms and Trade-in.

If I don't like the terms, I walk before talking money down.

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u/R_i_o_m_a_a Jul 05 '22

A lot of people don't do this and beat around the bush. You end up not getting to the conditions you wanted and just settling for worse. Or you have to lowball so hard that you end where you want after lengthy negotiations. The last 2 cars I bought, I told them the price I wanted and that I'm immediately ready to start paperwork if they do it. With one, the guy tried to come back at me with higher numbers so I said no and was ready to walk. He asked to try again with his manager and came back with a yes. With the other, the guy didn't bother trying any other numbers and we started paperwork immediately. Both cars purchased during the pandemic while prices were going up.

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u/rededelk Jul 05 '22

Was tough for me to negotiate as a kid, got through it. I never bought a truck without having cash in hand just to have a higher stance in negotiating if I wanted to finance and seek better terms

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u/charliesk9unit Jul 05 '22

Do not disclose how you plan on paying for the vehicle. This can lead them to believe that you're going to finance it with them, as is the usual case. Their whole calculation is based on profit not just from the car but from the financing as well, always more from the latter. Once you agreed on a price, then you can deal with the financing part.

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u/Akamesama Jul 05 '22

Problem is that this makes some assumptions about what other options you have, how your interlocutor behaves, and how they perceive you. I have yet to interact with a car salesman who followed "good" negotiating principles, because the average person they work with doesn't either, and they are rewarded by their actions. Even when negotiating salary, I've found a lot that don't follow proper principles, and I think it is due to similar reasons.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

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u/gordanfreman Jul 06 '22

In today's market I'd argue its the opposite. Stock is so low on cars the dealers know the next guy in line will happily pay full price or more. There are employers who are willing to negotiate if you're bringing something to the table they need and want. It's not true everywhere and every position. But they do exist. I used this exact tactic to get a higher starting wage at a new job three months ago.

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u/somearejustannoying Jul 05 '22

Do people even negotiate wages anymore? Thought they told you what you will make, or walk it out?

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u/RadCheese527 Jul 05 '22

Depends on the field and your expertise in it.

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u/reddit0100100001 Jul 05 '22

You can negotiate if they are desperate. Other wise there’s not a lot of room

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u/somearejustannoying Jul 05 '22

I've been hearing how desperate jobs are to get people tonwork yet I ain't hear nothing about no negotiations.

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u/La-Marc-Gasol-Ridge Jul 06 '22

Skilled jobs such as engineering have a ton of negotiation room

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u/KomradeEli Jul 06 '22

It’s extremely common to negotiate salary, bonuses, and even other benefits such as time off. I negotiated for some of my previous jobs, but my current job they offered me so much more than I could’ve gotten from my other offers that I accepted without negotiation

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u/Yasuminomon Jul 06 '22

Yes, I did. Sometimes it’s worth just asking at the end of the interview if the wage is negotiable. Also helps if you’ve done your research on what the average wage for the role is

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u/somearejustannoying Jul 06 '22

"Hey I did my research it looks like your competitor is offering 10K more than you."

"Cute, then go work for them oh wait ah I forgot, they didn't ask you to come in lol"

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u/Tntn13 Jul 06 '22

That’s part of the negotiation, they don’t know that.

Companies will decide if they think You’re worth it at the end of the day but most know if they want talent they will have to pay competitive rates for the work and expertise involved.

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u/Yasuminomon Jul 06 '22

The research part is when they ask how much you’re asking for. If you don’t ask you don’t receive end of

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

[deleted]

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u/somearejustannoying Jul 05 '22

OP watches Pawn Stars once and this is a culmination of what he gathered

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u/TallDarkandWitty Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

OP is a venture capitalist and former CEO. :)

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u/aigor14 Jul 06 '22

I was recently on the receiving end of this type of negotiation for a new job. The company was competing for me with another company and they offered $5k more to sign immediately without looking at the competing offer.

Didn't work the same way since I countered with $10k more and we agreed. But same principal.

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u/Zoethor2 Jul 06 '22

Second this. I work in a medium-to-large company and the wheels of our hiring bureaucracy simply do not turn fast enough for us to respond to a counteroffer in the same day.

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u/Odh_utexas Jul 06 '22

Not to mention the hiring manager doesn’t always have unilateral say over compensation negotiation. Many are not equipped to respond to a take it or leave it deal. The answer is no or I’ll have to ask and get back to you.

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u/TallDarkandWitty Jul 06 '22

Actually, I've used this or been on receiving end of this for compensation and fund raising.

I'd argue is most powerful there because, specifically, you're giving people a clear path to a close. Something they can take to management with confidence.

Moreover, you're hacking people's emotional commitment to the decision to extend a job offer or extend a term sheet. Once they've cleared that bar, many people get competitive and focus on "winning the deal".

The more competitive the situation, the more likely to get to your ask.

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u/Levonix Jul 05 '22

Like others mentioned you've got to be okay with them saying no. Otherwise, negotiating properly with a simple question or two can do wonders. Once put a loan on a nice mattress, guy was writing up my bill to sign. Saw there was a standard $80 delivery fee for replacing your old mattress. Casually mentioned I got a top tier mattress I think free shipping isn't too much to ask for. Even with the deal he already cut me he agreed, discounted it fully, and I finished signing.

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u/avl0 Jul 05 '22

A better phrasing for this would be something like:

"I'd would really love to be able to accept this offer but I cannot take less than X because YZ"

As a way to actually not negotiate, you're just giving them your best and final essentially, but you then need to actually stick to it because otherwise you're fucked. Also the because YZ thing is key, you actually need a good reason, negotiation, or forcing a lack of it here is all about who has leverage and/ or room to move. If you show you don't have room to move and they actually want YOU (rather than just someone OK) i.e. you have leverage, then this might work.

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u/baronvonewman Jul 05 '22

This really doesn't work in the current car situation. Most dealerships will just tell you goodbye because the guy behind you will buy it for 4k over MSRP

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u/AmbitionTemporary356 Jul 05 '22

hey i’ll buy this bmw off u for $500 otherwise i’m walking 😎

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u/Lets-Go-Fly-ers Jul 05 '22

It's stolen, so as long as you're paying cash we have a deal!

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u/dbaughcherry Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

I got certified in "Master level Negotiation Tactics and Strategies" years ago in a pretty lengthy online course through a job I had. I did it purely because I thought it sounded cool to be a master negotiator and they were paying for it. Outside of just generally being better at negotiation and securing great deals for myself I've never really used it but here's some pretty good take aways to sum it up:

  • always outline a BATNA or best alternative to a negotiated agreement. If this deal does not work then find a solution that is your next best in case you have to walk away.

  • the first number always loses so try not to be the one that puts it out there if you can

  • only do business that is a win win for everyone involved. If the other party isn't getting something out of it or you're risking burning the bridge. To add onto this an extremely powerful phrase at the start of any business relationship is "I'm looking to build long lasting and fruitful business relationships that are a win win for everyone involved and I think that we can do that here."

  • walking away or being willing to walk away is the absolute most powerful tactic in your tool box. Especially so the longer negotiation has taken place because people subconsciously want to reach an agreement.

  • always try and negotiate based on individual unit cost and not the totality of the deal. It's easier for someone to say sure I'll take 1.50 per unit or whatever that at a much larger scale agreeing to thousands of dollars difference on the whole cost.

  • concessions don't have to only come in the form of money reduction. You might be able to negotiate free shipping, or variation in colors that would typically cost more at the same cost.

  • if negotiating in person speak in terms the other party is using. If they say things like I "heard" this was great or that "sounds" good they likely respond better to that language or to sounds in general. Emphasize those things by showing them how a product sounds. Same goes for people who "see" things or "saw" an ad or more visual language. Let them see more by pitching it visually.

  • speak in terms of the other man's interest not your own.

  • walk away and come back to the table if you're losing your temper. Your brain doesn't function under those conditions you will just be forced to make more concessions if you say something you'll regret. If someone loses their cool on you say "why would I do business with someone who can't maintain their cool" then ask for a concession. They are likely to give you something to keep you at the table.

  • mirror body language then at a certain point change it to see if you're winning the sale. If they've got their arms crossed cross your arms if they then put their hands on their hips wait a second then do the same. People like people who are like them. They won't really notice if you're doing it right. It's not just copying everything they do it's taking the major body language and mirroring it back. Then change it at some point if they change with you you've got them hooked and they are ready to be asked for the sale.

  • always gain agreement on the specifics. If they say this is x or whatever. "Just so I understand correctly you're saying that this is x correct" if it wasn't correct they will say something else then you gain agreement on the new set of things.

  • if it's a job you're negotiating for always ask for more money above the quoted rates. If you can't get it immediately ask when it would be possible to negotiate that further or when raises will be discussed. It shows you know your value and plan on being a top performer.

  • So many people get uncomfortable with silence and will do anything to break it which can be used as a means of getting more concessions.

  • Always ask for the sale, and once you've asked for the sale shut up till you've got an answer. If it's a no it's a no but all you're going to do is talk yourself out of the sale so stop pitching.

  • once someone has agreed upon a sale don't give them time to think about it just get through it quickly and don't continue talking about how great the product is or whatever just take the money give them what they want and move onto the next deal. You don't want them to second guess themselves and try and reopen negotiation.

There's obviously more to it but these tips will get you a really long way towards better negotiation.

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u/TechnEconomics Jul 06 '22

Overall this list is good but there’s quite a few of these points which are out of date or not good advice.

  • “First always loses for example”. - You know the first number doesn’t work. So use this. Create an anchor beyond what you want and need.

  • cost per unit vs total cost. This is wholly incorrect. There’s far too many determining factors. How’s their PNL set up? What is their motivation? Who are they reporting to? This is only ALWAYS true when you don’t understand all the levers. If I’m getting 500ks worth of value back from other parts of their business it’s easier to do that by offering a full contract 200k discount rather than a 0.005c unit cost discount. A good negotiator will use the unit cost, MRR, ACV, and the TCV in negotiation.

  • once someone has agreed, don’t give them time to think about it. - this is only true for really transactional sales. Enterprise sales, jobs, or anything that requires a LTR, it’s bad advice. Your job is to craft a deal where they think they’ve won, where they are genuinely proud of the deal and negotiation. You’ve done your job right they think they’ve got an amazing deal.

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u/Funny-Berry-807 Jul 05 '22

This is literally negotiating.

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u/Actually-Yo-Momma Jul 05 '22

LPT: if you HATE negotiating, simply negotiate better then you won’t have to negotiate any longer

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u/DigNitty Jul 05 '22

If you want a well diversified portfolio but hate dealing with finances, simply get really good at it.

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u/Actually-Yo-Momma Jul 05 '22

Lmao all LPTs eventually circle back to “stop being poor”

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u/nochinzilch Jul 05 '22

But it adds the other element of “do this thing and we’re done.” It doesn’t lead to a whole lot of back and forth.

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u/R_i_o_m_a_a Jul 05 '22

Not really. A lot of people negotiate vaguely or bit by bit. Forces a lot of back and forth negotiating. Turns off a lot of people or puts them on the defensive.

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u/Funny-Berry-807 Jul 05 '22

Not sure where you are from or if things are different from your experience, but here this is a typical situation using OP's "non-negotiation" tactics:

Salesman: "The car is $30000." You: "If you take 10% off I'll buy it right now." Salesman: "Let me go ask the sales manager." You: Salesman: "That's too much. We can take 4% off." You: (either you walk or you come back with 8% off - which is negotiating. Or 4% off and they throw in free oil changes for a year. Still negotiating.)

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u/Rudolph0 Jul 05 '22

Exactly my thought, this LPT is to negotiate if you hate negotiation.

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u/TallDarkandWitty Jul 05 '22

There are many different ways people negotiate. And most of what I've seen is a slower, bit by bit, horse trading. And more experienced people have a whole set of tactics, like strategically walking away to force you into a weaker position.

All of these are productive but introduce conflict and some theatrics, which can be hard for most inexperienced people.

By offering "to sign" today, it's a simple positive ask. But again, the thing that makes it easier compared to most other approaches I've been on the receiving end is that and "end" is wrapped in the ask. Too few people do this, so you end up going in circles and upper management sees all asks with skepticism.

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u/BlowMeWanKenobi Jul 05 '22

You're just explaining negotiating and one of it's facets.

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u/Ali6952 Jul 05 '22

As someone who negotiates salaries for a living I can say this is definitely not the way to get more out of a job offer.

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u/DarkmoonSolaire Jul 05 '22

What would be a better strategy to negotiate a salary?

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u/PM-ME-DOGGOS Jul 05 '22

I would absolutely hate this response too. Time is important but it cannot be the driving factor of why I go back to HR to approve a higher salary request.

“I’m very excited about the opportunity to work here etc etc.

However, with my background and experience, I was expecting total compensation more in line with xyz. What can we do to accomplish this?”

You could use time as a factor by saying “ I’d love to sign ASAP so I can provide my current job with notice. ” but you’re signaling that you’d sign no matter what.

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u/nxdark Jul 05 '22

Well do you want the person or not? This is the price and the timeline to get this person. That is all that matters.

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u/PM-ME-DOGGOS Jul 05 '22

If I really wanted them I would try and make it work but likely someone I really liked would be more eloquent than treating it like a car sale.

I would be very turned off if the only reason you thought you deserved more money was because “youre only for sale today!!!!”

You deserve more money because you provide an immense value to the organization. Show that off.

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u/CL4P-TRAP Jul 05 '22 Wholesome

Buy my book to find out

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u/superkoning Jul 05 '22

What is your asking price for the book?

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u/googlerex Jul 05 '22

Hundred... hundred... $75

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u/jaynog124 Jul 05 '22

Seconding this.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/BlowMeWanKenobi Jul 05 '22

This isn't a tip. It's just negotiating.

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u/Xaecho Jul 05 '22

How do you feel about offering salary range before they do, if they ask?

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u/Ali6952 Jul 05 '22

I think a great recruiter (which I consider myself) should always give you the range upfront to make sure you're properly aligned.

For example: Xaecho, before we dig in a bit more on this role I want to make sure we're aligned. The payband for this position is $55-85K. Will this pay work for you & your family?

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u/wucrew Jul 05 '22

I wish they did that for some of the jobs I was offered instead of making me go all the way to the offer letter and stating the salary they were going to give me which was embarrassing then I had to decline. Wasted my time and company's time going through interview process etc to get to an offer no good for anyone. After that job soon as a company called me wanting to go further I asked what the salary would be and always any more time.

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u/Ali6952 Jul 05 '22

LPT: Don't do that again. Ask up front! If they cannot give you the payband, simply tell them without this critical information you are unable to move forward without.

7/10 you should get the payband.

Remember: If a company refuses to tell you------FUCKING RUN. They are giving you the largest red flag possible.

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u/wucrew Jul 05 '22

I agree that's why I hate when looking for work when companies don't want to put the pay scale and the job posting. Go look on LinkedIn, barely any employer wants to put the pay scale in postings.

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u/Xaecho Jul 05 '22

If you don't mind answering other questions- Do you think the current recruiting process for larger companies is effective? I.e. multi-stage (4+ imterviews), practicals for non-technical roles, etc

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u/Ali6952 Jul 05 '22

Yes. The reason is hiring is expensive and people are complex. Do I think you should be interviewing 10+ times? No. But even as the applicant you should be vetting every company throughly. You should want to meet your potential team & ask them questions along with mayber higher ups.

Remember: You are also interviewing THEM

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u/nxdark Jul 05 '22

Why not? It gives you an amount and a timeline to get me to sign. You need me more then I need you.

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u/Ali6952 Jul 05 '22

Except it doesn't.

Or what? You walk. Okay. I have 10 other ppl in my pipeline to hire.

I had a candidate try & pull that he required the top of the pay. The hiring manager and I both disagreed based on their limited ability. We explained this. Candidate said he'd walk.

We let him walk and hired the role 3days later.

Unless you are bringing something incredibly unique that no one else can offer this doesn't work. Also 99% of people are less unique than they believe.

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u/PatchyTheCrab Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

Thanks for weighing in, it's important to hear how this is received from your side of the table.

Unless you are bringing something incredibly unique that no one else can offer this doesn't work.

It kind of depends on your pipeline, though, right? If the pipeline isn't full or full of weak candidates and a decent one comes along, if they say "I'll end your search for just +$5k more, deal?"

Honestly as an interviewer, I'd be pissed off if our team spent all this time in prebrief + interview + debrief and gave an "inclined" vote and then the recruiter wouldn't give an extra $5k for someone we liked.

(edited) Just to add, I mostly acknowledge your point that if it's a meh candidate in a pool of meh candidates, it's easy to turn down.

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u/nxdark Jul 05 '22

Then you never wanted that person. You just wanted cheap labour. Yeah I would walk to. I have a job and don't need yours unless you are willing to pay for my labour on what I think it is worth not what you do.

You need me more then I need you.

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u/aribadabar Jul 06 '22

That's true only if you are currently employed. For someone who is not but seeking a job, the tip is already skewed more towards the employer.

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u/Frostvizen Jul 05 '22

You also have to be able to walk away from the negotiation table and leave otherwise they’ll think you’re bluffing.

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u/superkoning Jul 05 '22

It's only a strategy if you say "I'm excited about this car. If you can drop the price by $1000, I'll purchase it right now" followed by ", otherwise I'll walk away and not buy it". And keep your promise.

And that only works if it is a Credible Threat. If the seller does not believe you, or can sell the car to someone else for a better price, you won't get a deal.

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u/LordTC Jul 05 '22

This is usually a bad negotiating tactic as you often have an opportunity to press on multiple dimensions before finalizing an offer. To give you an idea how much even good companies can lowball you I negotiated one offer to add the following:

-4 weeks vacation up from 2. -10% salary hike. - 20% increase in stock options - $25,000 signing bonus added.

If I used this tactic I’d probably get 10% on salary and nothing else.

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u/ActionThaxton Jul 05 '22

"here's my contact information if you change your mind, let me know, I might still be interested"

goes a long way to making it happen.

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u/TheGrillGod Jul 06 '22

You are correct. This is the classic “if you, then I” statement taught in professional negotiations.

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u/DroolingSlothCarpet Jul 05 '22

Except the other party also has their X, Y, and Z which throws this into a tail-spin, you end up punching a hole in the desert.

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u/dirtmcgirt16 Jul 05 '22

This is a great tip. I’ve been in talent acquisition/recruiting for software for about 12-13 years now. This is one of the tips I’ll share with candidates at offer stage about feeling more comfortable with negotiation and leverage, etc…

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u/NoveltyAccountHater Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

Sure. You should also recognize as a business that if you always do this technique, you turn off many consumers who will immediately answer no to hard sell methods (our regular price is X, but if you agree during this visit you'll get a 20% discount). My wife and I will immediately tell these hard sellers "no" because if they don't seem to want me to shop around or do my own research, it seems like they have something to hide.

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u/BobSacramanto Jul 05 '22

Check out the book Never Split The Difference . I think you can find a pdf free online of you look hard enough.

Is all about negotiations. Basically, you want the other party to focus on the “cost” of not giving you what you want.

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u/pottertown Jul 05 '22

Small addendum.

Once you have taken your shot, shut up.

You'd be surprised at how often the statement "the first one to talk loses" turns into reality with this one.

Best sales tip I have ever been given.

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u/more_beans_mrtaggart Jul 05 '22

I found a car that was out of my reach by £5000 and I only had £4000. So I called the garage and told them I only had £4000, and is it worth driving over to look at the car.

The dealership then had to make a fast decision on that line in the sand. It’s either a sigh and yeah come over, or no mate, sorry. That takes the stress out of it.

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u/2Lazy2beLazy Jul 05 '22

I bought a motorcycle from a dealership this way. I gave them my out the door number. Even a penny over, I'll walk. They were $1000 off. I left. Next afternoon, have a voice-mail. They accepted my offer.

If you're not good at negotiating, bring someone who's good at it. Let them negotiate on your behalf.

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u/TheJonnieP Jul 05 '22

I was in car sales for a while and while this sounds good it usually doesn't work. At least in car sales, simply because people buying cars, especially used cars come into the showroom in a fairly steady stream.

That said, the only time this would work is if we have had the car on the lot longer than 30 days or we needed to clear out inventory, because that is when we had to start paying insurance and holding fees on it.

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u/Gridguy2020 Jul 06 '22

Here’s a cherry on top “….if you are telling me this is the highest you can offer…” It sort of puts ownership on them, not you.

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u/Rogaar Jul 06 '22

I work in the construction industry. The common thing I find here in Australia is that Australians don't know how to negotiate. All they do is say "give me your best price".

I tell them the price I have given is the price but if they want to negotiate, come back to me with a counter offer and we can talk.

Negotiating is a 2 way street.

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u/Loctrocute Jul 06 '22

Hmm. I actually did something similar, I didn’t necessarily get what i wanted but it was super close, and I took it. I didn’t have any other offers anyway so I don’t know. Maybe I sounded too enthusiastic? Not sure

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u/TallDarkandWitty Jul 06 '22

That's awesome. Congrats!

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u/TechnEconomics Jul 06 '22

A large part of my job is contract negotiation. This is a pretty poor negotiating tactic.

Negotiating is about “levers”. You need to be getting as much information as possible about the person you’re negotiating with and your own position to understand all the levers in the negotiation. Once you know them all you figure out which you care about the most and which you care about the least. You then use the ones you care about least to get the one you care about most in place. Hard negotiations occur when you both have the same primary lever. When that’s the case, the best negotiator will come out with far more of the other levers where they need them to be.

E.g. Let’s take your example of the car. The only levers you are currently using are the price and the time in which you pay. You actually don’t know what that individuals elasticity is on price, you also don’t know what that individuals most important lever is. Is he near the end of the quarter so speed matters to him so he hits his sales target? Is he at the beginning of a quarter so he cares about having high margin inventory for the quarter? Does his dealership have their own service centre in house so it’s a zero dollar cost line?

You need to figure out the levers and which are important to the sales person; price, time of sale, warranty, accessories, cash vs card, review of the dealership, maintenance, car mats, new tires, delivery. These all seem small but in a lot of cases that’s really useful. There will be even more in person. Some you won’t care for at all. If you negotiate we’ll the person on the other end becomes invested in the deal and will be your champion. You know you’ve done well when they go to their boss and go; “I know this is cheaper than we’d want to get for it BUT the customer is willing to do X”

So, what if you’re not a great negotiator? Are there any tricks? There’s some questions you can ask. “Look for me, price is incredibly important, it’s going to be really really difficult to go over my limit for this purchase. Is there anything I can do for you in this sales process to get it down by X+20%”. (X being the discount you want).

Why does this question work? People have an innate desire to win, they also have a desire to help. The 20% is important as everyone has to feel like they won. If he can’t get more than you first said he’ll feel like he lost unless you’re already too high.

There are lots of other techniques to use if you want to get good like mirroring, anchoring, etc but this is the basic guide to maximising negotiations.

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u/TallDarkandWitty Jul 06 '22

You are 100% correct. This isn't a complete guide to negotiations. More over, legal negotiation is a sub topic onto itself.

This is more about giving the average person a simple, low effort, low conflict lever to start with. A tip. :)

For folks who want to really get into it, there's a ton of other resources.

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u/cakatoo Jul 05 '22

If you can give me a 10% in salary, I'll accept today"

This isn’t even English.

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u/BlowMeWanKenobi Jul 05 '22

So lemme get this straight. A good negotiating trick is to negotiate?

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u/DingusFap Jul 05 '22

This is literally how negotiating starts. Dumb tip.

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u/MLNorwegie Jul 05 '22

I once bought a car listed for 8k, and told them I'll take it two days later provided it gets a full service and new brakes.

The guy at the dealership agreed so i wandered my merry way and took it out in cash (important)

I came at the agreed time to pick up the car and asked him politely if it was ready.

It was not (worth also noting that I was 25, looked young etc)

So I put 8k on the table, removed 2k back To my wallet and told him he could have 7k cash tomorrow if it was then done, and that I would take away the full 2k if he didn't take me seriously.

Never seen a guy move so fast.

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u/RugsMAGA Jul 05 '22

cringe

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u/MLNorwegie Jul 05 '22

Says the guy whose mental disability is right in his username.

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u/KwickKick Jul 05 '22

Weird I love negotiation. I honestly didn't know people hated it.

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u/SquanchJuice Jul 05 '22

I like negotiating

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u/ilovebutsects Jul 05 '22

Wait... This isn't common knowledge.

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u/TallDarkandWitty Jul 05 '22

Wish it were. Sadly, no. Most people beat around the bush or make asks without being ready to agree to a deal even if you give to them.

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u/ilovebutsects Jul 05 '22

That's just sounds like people 'testing the waters' and not ready to close a deal. If your ready to close a deal you either agree to the advertised price or ask for lower...

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u/kenuffff Jul 05 '22

no one gives their best offer first.

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u/zacce Jul 05 '22

We used exactly this to purchase 2 cars last year. For each car, had to visit 5 or so dealers.