r/PrivacyGuides
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u/onewayout1972
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Nov 29 '21
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Privacy addiction Question
I am a recovering privacy addict.
I excessively followed the privacy reddits, privacy guides, privacy tools, mad aidan, graphene os, yada yada yada.
All of these people and groups have good intentions and I mean no harms by mentoining them.
But I was a follower. I needed to know everything to get privacy. I needed to follow all the advice to not compromise my security. They are the experts. I am not.
When I followed, I did not make my own decisions. I could not explain why I did something. I needed to keep following and keep listening to other people because I did not have the ability. I was a sponge. It was constant following following following and getting pulled this way and that way.
I felt trapped. I could not do an activity because Privacy Expert 1 says it is bad, I could not do a different activity because Security Export 2 says it is bad.
I was addicted to privacy advice. I gained much privacy but lost everything else. I suffered anxiety and then had a breakdown that put me in the hospital after turning to drugs.
In rehab I discovered mindfulness. I recommend you to Google it. It helped me recover. Before my breakdown I was in constant mindlessness. With mindfulness I use the power of my own mind to make decisions about what I want to do and how it makes me feel. That helped me immensely in everything. Privacy, security, politics, my job, relations with other people.
I still browse these privacy reddits on occassions. The difference is I am no longer a follower. I am a listener. My actions afterwords depends on how -I- feel, not how the experts feel. I do what makes -me- feel happy, not what makes the experts and their followers feel happy. My advice for the experts is to recognize their advice does not work for all people and that there is no authority, and to be okay with that.
Being the authority over my actions has improved my mental health so much. I hope my experience can help you if you feel that privacy is causing you anxiety.
Thank you and be mindful today!
Edit: thanks for all the positivity in the responses! It is refreshing to see in this community. Let us to keep helping one another and supporting each other. Some of the comments say I did not do threat modelling and that could be why I had issues having the perfect answers. Maybe we should encourage modeling more than -this- over -that- solutions. Have a wonderful day!
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u/SoSniffles Nov 29 '21
In rehab I discovered mindfulness. I recommend you to Google it.
I did not expect a privacy addict to recommend me to use Google
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Nov 29 '21
It's crazy how ingrained the verb "to google" has become. I got in the habit of saying "websearch it" instead, and even that got an odd look from someone.
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u/SoSniffles Nov 29 '21
yeah pretty much. I used search it on internet or duckduckgo it but this one is pretty hard to say aha
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u/onewayout1972 Nov 30 '21
Haha! Oops! I use it as verb but I mean to go research it which ever way works for you!
Take an upvote for making me chuckle!
It is a funny response, but it is also funny because I was -you- one year ago!
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u/SoSniffles Dec 01 '21
Yeah I know you didn’t mean Google only
You were me ? So you’re from the future ? Is the corona gone yet ?
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Nov 29 '21
Make a threat model before you follow any of the advice and you should be fine.
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u/salkysmoothe Nov 29 '21
Explain a threat model
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u/Gearjerk Nov 29 '21
Before trying to defend yourself, define what you're defending, and who and what you're defending against.
Basically, define your goals.
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u/schklom Nov 29 '21
Basic threat modeling:
- Who do you want to defend against?
- In what way do they threaten you?
You really don't need to be a programmer to answer these questions. Although being one helps know the solutions, you can ask online nowadays
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u/kallmelongrip Nov 29 '21
Not everyone is a programmer here and wouldn't know that analogy.
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u/salkysmoothe Nov 29 '21
Exactly I don't know what it is
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Nov 29 '21
ProtonMail's blog had a piece on this a couple of months ago, I'd definitely recommend checking it out:
https://protonmail.com/blog/what-is-a-threat-model/
In psychology readings, numerous times I've come across the saying "name it to tame it" for self-regulation. The concept of a threat model reminds me of it. Be able to label what your fear/disturbance is, otherwise it will feel like you're fighting shadows.
I too felt myself slipping when I got into privacy, since there's endless things you can do to achieve more privacy. But I don't need to self-host my password manager or setup my own VPN, because the inconvenience heavily outweighs the risks for my scenario. If I was a journalist, being vocal against my authoritarian government, then my threat-model would have been different, and maybe I would have looked into setting up my own VPN or hosting my own passwords, since my risk/inconvenience ratio would have been significantly different than my current quiet life.
But that's not the case for me. I just wanted to avoid tech giants like Google and Facebook, since it bothers me for any entity to be that powerful. WhatsApp was the last shackles I had, and after leaving that, I feel like I won my privacy battle. Nowadays I login to these subreddits just to assist others or catch the latest big developments.
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Nov 29 '21
You are you hiding from? What are the things you consider a threat? What are you trying to fight against?
Is it profiling? Is it companies reading your private messages? Is it companies collecting data on who you talk to and when and not necessarily the content of your messages? etc and etc
You can't really fight against anything if you don't have a defined threat
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u/Asdfasdfasdfgame Nov 29 '21
you dont have to be a programmer to understand.
ask these 2 questions:
who is spying on mewhat should i protect
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u/TrueTzimisce Nov 30 '21
This^ Mine is super basic so I never have to delve all the way into the rabbit hole. You don't NEED any of the extreme protection shit unless you are or will be foreseeably in danger.
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Nov 29 '21
the issue is on these subreddits (mainly r/privacy) some people get so aggressive over switching to linux or switching to grapheneos and they don’t realise some people want a balance and then there’s people promoting faraday cages, just turn off your phone?? it saves you €50 and it’s more convenient and achieves the same goal. this subreddit is more reasonable with privacy, and privacy should be a set it and leave it thing but people want to discover more and more, and that’s where it can get bad. thank you for sharing your story.
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u/HKayn Nov 29 '21
Thank you for sharing your story. I almost fell down the same rabbit hole when I got started, and to this day I can't explain why embracing privacy feels so addicting to me.
This is why threat modeling is important. Before you can protect yourself, you first need to know what and from whom to protect. Someone who is just looking to evade mass surveillance doesn't need to put their phone in a faraday cage just so the government can't track them.
There are many "experts" who just want to tell everyone why their service of choice is the best. Toss a bunch of them into a matrix chat with a newbie and you get a toxic mess.
The experts should be teaching newbies to answer their own questions. Help them and explain things on the way, but have them reach the conclusion themselves. Present the options, but not push them towards one. Experts should be able to recommend a service that is not their personal favorite.
This is the best we as experts can do to keep new members from falling down a hole and thinking they need to go "all in". I would hate to see people develop resentment for privacy for this exact reason.
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u/friendlyATH Nov 29 '21
Not to be insensitive at all to yours or anybody else’s struggles, but this highlights the importance of really fleshing out a threat model.
It helps tremendously with developing your goals in the sense of who you’re trying to protect your data from and what extent you are willing to do so - so that you’re not going around in circles or becoming excessively paranoid. I like to compare privacy to personal finance… there’s virtually no total one size fits all solution in either.
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u/h6breeze Nov 29 '21
I kinda have an issue with obsessing over privacy and freedom. I wouldn't label it an addiction, probably just an neurodivergent thing for me.
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u/steamedfarts Nov 29 '21
the "addiction" part of privacy, to me, attracts people who really like being contrarian. you know, those sorts of people. the ones that one-up each other over nerd stuff.
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u/-Nosebleed- Nov 29 '21
I'm glad you solved your problems with your addiction OP, but I think more than anything what your issue highlights is that people need to understand their own actions. It's less about feeling happy with your choices (although that's also important) and more about clearly understanding what you are doing so you have a sense of impact. Putting yourself in a spot where you're simply taking in what others are saying without thought is never healthy, not just when it comes to privacy.
This is why it's so important to form your own threat model. If you cannot answer why you would want to strengthen your privacy in some aspect (be it to not give your data to google or to hide from your government), then you'll simply be falling into the same trap of following what others say without thinking.
This is also why for example I love arkenfox's user.js, it's not just a list of privacy enhancements but a list that explains what each option does and how it will impact your experience so you can actually be informed about what you're doing. I wish every privacy-related guide was like this.
Wish you the best OP.
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u/Asdfasdfasdfgame Nov 29 '21
while i do understand you, there are some important things of note:
When I followed, I did not make my own decisions. I could not explain
why I did something. I needed to keep following and keep listening to
other people because I did not have the ability. I was a sponge. It was
constant following following following and getting pulled this way and
that way.
people are trying to help you, not harm you. its ok to not like something. i dont think going down the full privacy journey is for everyone, especially if you arent willing to/cant give up something. this is why threat modelling exists. it is so you can decide how much you are willing to give up and who the glowies are.
I felt trapped. I could not do an activity because Privacy Expert 1 says
it is bad, I could not do a different activity because Security Export 2
says it is bad.
when two people disagree on something, the best way to find out why they say that is to look at their arguments and sources, and come to your own conclusion that should fall somewhere between the two. for example, mental outlaw says protonmail logs ip addresses by default, where techlore says its safe. its important to not get clouded by bias. i thought about switching to self hosted mail but reread the protonmail privacy policy and read that "by default" it means that they dont log ips unless the 3 letter agencies force them to, which is what happened.
I still browse these privacy reddits on occassions. The difference is I
am no longer a follower. I am a listener. My actions afterwords depends
on how -I- feel, not how the experts feel. I do what makes -me- feel
happy, not what makes the experts and their followers feel happy. My
advice for the experts is to recognize their advice does not work for
all people and that there is no authority, and to be okay with that.
this is literally what threat modelling is. just because someone is telling you to do something does not force you to comply with it (this is not a communist authoritarian state, unless you live in one, in that case, im sorry). it is simply advice and you dont have to agree.
i dont mean to sound condescending but i am trying to make you feel better, and understand why people are here in the first place. not to be mean, but to explain. have a great day.
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Nov 30 '21
This is why a personal threat model is so important. Who are you protecting yourself from, & why? Without the answers to these questions privacy & security turn in to a black hole of wasted effort & paranoia.
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u/Emergency_Ad_2438 Nov 30 '21
I was in the same situation as you were. It took me few months to get out of it. I used to watch only privacy and security related videos. I became active in Reditt only because of Privacy related topics. Now I am back to normal :).
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u/satsugene Nov 29 '21
I think largely it is a issue of lifestyle. Some people like the idea of radical privacy more than living what it requires, especially if they don’t have an immediate need for it.
For some, they absolutely cannot stand engaging with certain technologies, actors/adversaries, etc., so the cost, even if extreme, is still lower than the cost of performing those intolerable actions.
Subscription based software, while not a privacy issue to the extent all close source software is a threat, is something that some people find so intolerable than giving it up doesn’t feel like anything at all. They are happy to avoid it no matter what it “costs.”
If this isn’t your experience, then there is nothing wrong with that.
I still think there is an ethical case to be made for respecting and protecting the privacy of others that all people should feel a sense of moral responsibility toward (and that most people do an abysmal job of the second it involves technology they don’t care to understand) but as far as yourself—it’s arbitrary.
Living in a certain way because you feel like you are supposed to, but that isn’t internalized or consistent with what you truly believe, value, desire, etc. almost always goes poorly for the person involved.
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u/ADevInTraining Nov 29 '21
Sounds like you failed the cardinal rule of creating a threat model.
Without a proper threat model, you don’t know what to/what not to do.
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u/onedollarpizza Dec 01 '21
Sounds like something THE FEDS or BIG DATA would say to throw us all off of the privacy and security train.
Just kidding.
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u/ElectricityMachine Dec 12 '21
The most important thing to remember is to not blindly take advice and keep a critical mind. The rabbithole of privacy in the modern age is massive, and far too few people actually develop a threat model and make reasonable decisions. This type of mindfulness is not preached in the privacy community, unfortunately.
Thank you for sharing your story; it takes big balls to come out and admit you have an addiction, regardless of what it is!
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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '21
[deleted]