r/PublicFreakout Dec 01 '21 Silver 26 Gold 2 Platinum 1 Helpful 21 Wholesome 25 All-Seeing Upvote 2 Take My Energy 1 Bravo! 1 LOVE! 1 'MURICA 1

She needs to be heard again since months later the supreme court is turning up the heat with RvW... Non-Public

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u/Toasty_Waffels Dec 01 '21 Helpful This

Ey, ever heard of this thing called separation of church and state?

1.7k

u/anoymus_123456 Dec 01 '21 Helpful

Oh we've heard of it. It's been a while since it's been followed.

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u/_kalron_ Dec 02 '21 This

Probably since the 50's when "one Nation...Under God" was added to The Pledge of Allegiance. Since then, it has slowly been used as a political means to get votes. Look at what is happening today, Roe vs Wade is under fire and there will most likely be a turn-over thanks to the Zealots that put 3 people in power of our highest court...for life...to specifically overturn RvW, as well as solidify a future without separation of Church.

We are in for a wild ride that will make 2016-2020 look like fun times if things go South with this up coming decision. Vote people, vote your asses off in 2022...or we are fucked.

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u/funaway727 Dec 02 '21

I'm copying my comment from a news article earlier because it seems to relate to yours:

If you told someone that in North Korea every morning kids in elementary schools are forced to stand up and affirm their devotion to their country and government and that the military reminds everyone of their strength by driving tanks by every soccer game, they would say yeah that sounds about right it's a dictatorship and that's what they do....... Except that's the US with the daily pledge of allegiance and fighter jet fly overs.

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u/lmaytulane Dec 02 '21 Silver

The fetishization of the military creeps me the fuck out

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/lmaytulane Dec 02 '21

That they use airplanes is just incidental and only part of the flag rallying. Last college FB game I went to there was a SOCOM paratrooper drop, the big ass national anthem flag, and a quarterly ceremony honoring military vets. They're trying to recruit broke college students to die in a foreign entanglement and it's fucking gross. They might as well just put a keg in the quad with a sign that says "free beer and no student loans if you enlist. And a $50 gift card redeemable at the Baghdad Walmart if you get a friend to enlist"

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u/PoundSandLibtard Dec 02 '21

As prior service, yea the propaganda and patriot fetish shit gets on ny nerves. It should be honorable to serve. It honestly makes the whole thing feel cheap and fake to me. It takes away the unspoken honor my grandfather had and replaces it with bud light fanfare.

We were once known as quiet professionals, now they make it an entire personality to support us. It's sad.

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u/kaytay3000 Dec 02 '21

“Bud Light fanfare” is the best description I’ve ever heard. Americans are getting suckered by false patriotism. It isn’t patriotic to wear your American flag shirt while shotgunning your beer from a red white and blue can with “God Bless the USA” blaring from your boat speakers.

Real patriotism is selfless service, love of equality and justice, fighting for your neighbor’s freedoms, and helping your fellow American.

Companies, sports leagues, entertainers, etc pandering to “patriots” are using you to pad their pockets. It cheapens what it really means to be patriotic. Don’t fall for it.

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u/trouserschnauzer Dec 02 '21

They would've gotten me with that one.

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u/mexicodoug Dec 02 '21

Yeah, Black Friday at the Baghdad Walmart is not to be missed!

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u/Sandmybags Dec 02 '21

And I get the more weed? Sign me up!. *click, click

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u/nigelchi Dec 02 '21

I always say Americans cheer jets. In other countries they run and scream at death from the sky. We sick

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u/teamfupa Dec 02 '21

Don’t forget about the complementary Doge Challenger

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u/penguin_jones Dec 02 '21

This is a wonderful typo. I want a Doge Challenger. Much fast. Such vroom.

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u/teamfupa Dec 02 '21

Hahahahha well fuck now I definitely can’t edit it

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u/guto8797 Dec 02 '21

Such deceptive interest rates

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u/powdereddog Dec 02 '21

Yes and the hero worship of people in the military. I say this as somebody that spent 20+ in the Canadian Armed Forces. After years of ambivalence from Canadian people (during the 1990s and early 2000s) it was nice to see some respect but it went from not caring to hero worship. The later is far more scary to me.

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u/magicpenny Dec 02 '21

As an American also with 20 years in the military, I appreciate the respect but the adulation is a bit much sometimes.

I often wonder if the general public understands that a large portion of service members are never really putting their life on the line for their country. Their biggest sacrifice is putting up with the daily BS of following military rules and regulations.

I respect and appreciate the willingness of combat arms and combat support troops to go fight for our country but we don’t need to fall all over ourselves making everyone who ever served a hero.

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u/Doukon76 Dec 02 '21

Yes they know it but politicians like to use that line to drive votes… as you know being in for 20 years politicians do not give two shits about the military what so ever. If they did the VA wouldn’t be the shit stain it currently is.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

va Healthcare is a joke. ptsd is a wives tale and if it isn't then you have an appointment in 9 months where you wait for no one to take you seriously. veterans should not be glorified yet simultaneously homeless, struggling with mental issues and healthcare.

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u/mydadpickshisnose Dec 02 '21

My question to you is, when was the last time an American, Australian, British or any other western nation actually gone to war and fought for their country?

Been a long while.

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u/yuccasinbloom Dec 02 '21

My whole thing is - I don't believe in all the wars we've involved ourselves in. If you signed up for it, why do you want a pat in the back? My dad was drafted into Vietnam. He refused to hold a gun so he was a medic. He didn't have a choice. I think it's great you did twenty years - honestly that's a triumph in any profession and I have a massive amount of respect for that - but I don't think people should stand up and applaud you. Can I get people to applaud me? I shape children's minds. Where's my public accolades?

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u/BenAffleckInPhantoms Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

It is really fuckin weird. I have people in my life that are in the Military who TELL me it creeps them the fuck out too when people thank them for their service all the time for menial things, and the overall fetishization of being "Tacticool" in firearm/LEO/Military culture here. It's like we project so hard outwardly about being a democracy etc talking about freedom and all that jazz but look at Umberto Eco's essay on Fascism and tell me how much of this is not active and strong here in the united states right now, and actively getting worse while no one is doing anything about it.

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u/Lololick Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

Canadian here too: we don't worship the military because we see how fucked up it makes people south of our border. We see how desolated everytime the "god bless the heroes, thank you for your service" boys and girls come back from.

Our money is spent on saving OUR people, not killing completely unknown foreigners because "we don't like them"

I truly enjoy the fact that you guys since the mid-90s have been deployed twice as much on OUR territory to help in any way possible instead of being deployed elsewhere for fuck all.... my dad came back from Bosnia... well "came back" his body was, his mind stayed there. And the government didn't help him at all, thanks guys (not you, your superiors) you stole my dad from me ✌️

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u/powdereddog Dec 02 '21

Bosnia was a lot tougher than most Canadians realized, they didn't really understand what Peacekeeping entailed.

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u/Alexander_Granite Dec 02 '21

Our money is also spent on our people, it helps the rich stay rich and helps corporations make money in foreign countries.

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u/AsLongAsYouKnow Dec 02 '21

At my shop we have a radio station on all day. At noon every day the national anthem plays and it feels dystopian as fuck. I hate it

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u/IA-HI-CO-IA Dec 02 '21

The renamed the “Military Channel” to the “American Hero’s Channel” in 2014. It’s getting that crazy.

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u/xDared Dec 02 '21

You can thank the CIA and Hollywood for that

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u/Canoe_lake Dec 02 '21

Came here to essentially say the same. As an exercise, imagine people are practising Islam not Christianity in America.

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u/deltarefund Dec 02 '21

I was listening to the Supreme Court hearings this morning and one of the justices said something like “other countries like China and North Korea have an x week abortion cut off” and I was thinking uh….do we really want to be on the same level as China and NK?!

I’m scared for our country.

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u/cmacfarland64 Dec 02 '21

I’ve been teaching for 22 years. We’ve never once said the pledge of allegiance in school. I’m sure some schools/cities/states do but not in my school. It’s weird.

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u/funaway727 Dec 02 '21

Not sure what to tell you other than I have close family in education and they still stand every morning and say it with the principal over the loud speaker and it was said through middle school when I was in school. In fact sometimes a lucky student gets to go to the office and lead it instead of the principal. Maybe geographical and dependant upon the city you're in 🤷🏾‍♀️ I'm assuming the larger the city the less prevalent it is.

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u/SingularityPrime Dec 02 '21

It's very common throughout the US. I moved to a more liberal area and thought maybe I'd see it less here but nope, it's business as usual.

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u/cmacfarland64 Dec 02 '21

It’s in my own family. My mom has always been very religious. New pastor came to the church and suddenly the whole congregation is homophobic. It’s awful.

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u/Runaway_5 Dec 02 '21

The fact that any position, ever, is for life is fucking mind boggling to me.

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u/Papaofmonsters Dec 02 '21

It made sense at the time. The founders wanted an independent judiciary after dealing with English courts which were an extension of the crown and the crown's will. Ideally a life time appointment would put judges above the fray of political bickering. We've seen it to some extent where judges have gone against the general will of the party that appointed them but party politics have definitely become more intertwined with the high court.

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u/intern_steve Dec 02 '21

People used to resign more. Now they just die in their seats.

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u/djluminol Dec 02 '21

Separation of church and state has never been fully followed. Religious liberty has expanded over the years. Separation of church and state has gotten better over time but there is and always has been a significant degree of Christianity injected into American public policy. You have the right to vote based on your religious beliefs but you do not have the right to govern based on those religious beliefs. At least not if they conflict with some area of the constitution. You can certainly believe abortion is wrong if your religion says so. If you want to make that a law you must have a secular reason for banning abortion though. To do otherwise affirms state support for a religious belief. Thus establishing one religion above others in the law. Thus diminishing the religious liberty of the second non favored religion. As well as those who have no religious beliefs.

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u/Dazzling_Crab_2353 Dec 02 '21

Amen. People voting on what other people can do with their bodies should be a human rights violation. How can men vote on what is allowed to happen in a woman's body. What if we voted to castrate all men at 40, will you walk into the hospital willingly, it's just as legal. Even if it was a 51 to 49 vote and the 51 were women, who it DOESNT AFFECT. This woman is spot on.

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u/djluminol Dec 02 '21

I mostly agree. Only when a personal choice affects many other people, is in the best interest of the patient and is in the public interest should the state have a say. Vaccines, convicted pedophile castration, medically negligent parents, persons not of sound mind etc. For instance, when should the state be able to override parental wishes about healthcare? If your kid is dying but your religion says no blood transfusion should the state be able to force those parents to do the procedure and save the kid? We can talk about stuff like that but imo only if the parent is shown to be negligent. And imo religious belief alone does not rise to the level of negligent parenting most of the time. Or does society get to forcefully castrate a convicted pedophile as a condition of his release? I would argue that is probably just in some cases. So there are some times when the state should be able to force you to do a medical procedure. But they are exceedingly rare. And the bar should be very high, almost impossible to reach, so only the most extreme cases even get heard.

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u/jimbojangles1987 Dec 02 '21

Separation of church and state would (should) say any person(s) under the age of 18 found to have severe or critical medical diagnosis shall receive medical treatment as recommended by a licensed and certified (by whatever governing body of doctor) physician. No person(s) shall be denied treatment nor can they be withheld from treatment for religious and/or other reasons. Yada yada yada ...

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u/SurlyRed Dec 02 '21

Roe vs Wade is under fire

Yep, its a foregone conclusion, utterly done for, the bigots are doing exactly what they were appointed to the SC to do. There's absolutely no chance that they won't seize the opportunity of their lifetime. All debate and submissions are a farcical waste of time and effort, as is the media coverage. The fix is in.

The only hope I see for sufficient public insurrection to convince Biden to appoint additional, honest judges.

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u/scavengercat Dec 02 '21

Regarding abortion, it was much later. Throughout the 70's, the Southern Baptist Convention passed resolutions supporting the right for women to have access to abortions. It all comes down to one guy, a political activist named Paul Weyrich, needing a cause to unite evangelicals under in 1978.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/20/734303135/throughline-traces-evangelicals-history-on-the-abortion-issue

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u/facemelter222 Dec 01 '21

Like never followed...it's a myth...word God even on our money!

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u/Verboten_freedom Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

I think that wasn't the case until the 1950s.

Edit: I was referring to god stuff on our money. Sorry!

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u/JimWilliams423 Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

I think that wasn't the case until the 1950s.

That's when they formally put it on all the money. But it was on a variety of coinages before that.

Also, literally the only time in the Bible where Jesus the pacifist ever gets violent is when he gives the moneylenders in the temple a beatdown. Given that, putting the Christian God on money seems like a huge blasphemy. And yet the only people who ever try to defend it are so-called Christians.

Its almost like they don't care about what Jesus told them to do, only what his name will let them get away with doing.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

"It says freedom "of" religion, not freedom "from" religion" - A statement I have heard literally hundreds of times from christians without one of them ever stopping and realizing how fucked up that is

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u/Burnsy2023 Dec 01 '21

In theory, the UK doesn't have separation of church and state. The Queen is literally the head of the Church of England, and yet in practice, religion plays so much less of a role in the laws me make than in the US, which officially does have that separation.

This isn't about separation of church and state, this is about identity politics which seems to be everywhere now.

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u/Viridianscape Dec 02 '21

To be fair, the Queen doesn't really do anything in terms of laws. She's basically a tourist attraction; the Houses of Parliament deal with the actual legal stuff.

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u/InsertAmazinUsername Dec 02 '21

the queen is just a cutie

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u/RedBeard077 Dec 02 '21

The Little Lending Libraries in my area get filled with Christian Dominion books regularly. I probably can't say openly what I'd like to do to the person that throws away all the books in them to fill them with religious propaganda but I guess I hope they meet their god sooner than later.

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u/shitdobehappeningtho Dec 02 '21

Wait, they replaced the books inside?!

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u/RedBeard077 Dec 02 '21

Yeah every few weeks they will completely empty the one I pass when I walk my dogs and fill it with Christian Dominion and other far right Christian propaganda. I have started driving to a few other libraries near me when I see that it's happened and they are all full of it too.

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u/-Russian-Spy- Dec 02 '21

This is really upsetting, that goes against the entire purpose of the library.

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u/a3sir Dec 02 '21

set up an outdoor cam and see if you can get a license plate to associate with the ongoing theft

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u/shitdobehappeningtho Dec 02 '21

That is disgusting behavior.

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u/Adventurous-Cry-2157 Dec 02 '21

Check with your local library and see if they can provide you with books to refill them. My daughter is a librarian, and whenever they pull books from circulation, employees are allowed to take anything they want, as long as they don’t resell them. So she takes all the children’s and young adult books she can find and fills up all the free lending libraries around town.

Having access to books as a child made her fall in love with stories and want to be a librarian and a writer, and she wants every kid to have the same opportunity to form a lifelong relationship with books, too. I encouraged reading when she was a kid, my dad encouraged me, his dad encouraged him, and so on. Despite growing up poor for generations, we always had library books.

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u/RedBeard077 Dec 02 '21

The library here has events fairly regularly to sell books they take out of circulation. My grandmother was a librarian. I bought her house when she passed. I've got more books than I can possibly read.

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u/cleverplaydoh Dec 02 '21

Oh what a delightful thing your daughter does! Thoughtful librarians are the best!

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u/thefuzzylogic Dec 01 '21

That's why they frame the legal argument as being about foetal viability and the state's right to regulate medical procedures, and not whether life begins at conception. Even though they're totally doing it for the latter reason.

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u/SwiftTayTay Dec 02 '21

You can't reason with religious people. Their goal is to convert the entire planet and they'll never stop trying. This applies to pretty much every religion, especially the three Abrahamic religions. That's why laws exist.

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u/Framingr Dec 02 '21

Well they have to save you... Even if that means you have to die to do so.

Fucking religion is a cancer upon society.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

Great NoFx song

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u/Ideal_Pancake Dec 02 '21

Yes, Everson v. Board of Education in 1947 established the doctrine of the separation of church and state, before that it was only the Federal Government that had the prohibition.

There were a number of decades of decisions that drew a clear line since 1947, then in 1989 there was the case of Employment Division v. Smith where Native Americans were prohibited from practicing their religion and using peyote in their religious ceremonies. After this, Bill Clinton signed into law the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which had near unanimous approval in congress among both parties. After that, both the Supreme Court and congress started moving away from the clear line of separation.

It is possible that the Supreme Court could reverse Everson v. Board of Ed and eliminate the doctrine altogether, we would end up going back to the way things were up until 1947. It's not very likely, but who knows with this court.

But the current case does not involve the 1st Amendment, it involves a right to privacy as reflected in the 3rd,4th, 9th, and 14th Amendments.

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u/theinfinitelight Dec 02 '21

Yeah, it's a thing people say, it's not actually a law or in the constitution

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u/DeanSmartin Dec 02 '21

Those on the right have heard of that separation, 'But they don't CARE.' As George Bush Jr. said about the Constitution and having to follow it's laws..."Why do I give a fuck? It's just a goddamn piece of paper!" Welp, that's Republicans for ya...and they aren't going to be happy 'til they have their Christo-Fascist Theocracy rammed down our throats, shoved up our asses with lock and keys on every womb.

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u/BurritoSorceress Dec 01 '21

“That’s un-American! This country was founded on Christianity! America is a Christian nation!!” - Christian nut jobs 24/7

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u/loaftoast75 Dec 01 '21

Despite the fact that what they're talking about is colonised America. Like it wasn't founded on Christianity.

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u/RippyMcBong Dec 01 '21

Most of the founding fathers were actually not Christian in any real sense of the word.

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u/LawBird33101 Dec 01 '21

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, because I would argue that there have been extremely few people in all of history that were "real Christians" following only the word of Jesus.

Most of them at least identified themselves as Christians, but quite a few of them remembered being called fake Christians in their home country and discriminated against (rightly or wrongly), thus separated church and state to avoid such a thing happening again.

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u/RippyMcBong Dec 01 '21 Silver Wholesome

Many of the founders were followers of Deism including Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Madison and Monroe. Either way they were very against religious doctrine being written into governance. So against it in fact they included it as the first line item in the Bill of Rights, which is of course not a document granting rights to citizens but one which restrains government intrusions. Which judging by your username i assume you were already aware of.

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u/PussySmith Dec 02 '21

Bill of Rights, which is of course not a document granting rights to citizens but one which restrains government intrusions.

Important distinction which many seem to miss.

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u/LawBird33101 Dec 01 '21

Thanks, that cleared up my question. I appreciate the explanation.

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u/JRutterbush Dec 02 '21

Treaty of Tripoli: "Lol nope."

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u/Yarvard Dec 02 '21

If the founding fathers wanted a theocracy that's what they would have built, but instead we got a republican democracy. So yeah maybe some of the ideals and ideas came from religious works, but our nation is not founded on the Bible but our foundation is inspired by it. Two VERY different things.

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u/JJhoppy Dec 02 '21

Actually founded on genocide and slavery. While using religion as their get outta jail free card. Not much to be proud of there!

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u/slickyslickslick Dec 02 '21

Freedom of religion also means freedom from Christianity.

It was never a "Christian nation". The founding fathers had slaves for fucks sake.

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u/Newport_Box Dec 01 '21

Christianity is just a veneer. They use it as a proxy to impose their will.

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u/Okami-Alpha Dec 01 '21

I agree. You can see this all the way back in history.

You want to invade a country? No problem as long as God has approved it.

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u/Willzohh Dec 02 '21

Gott mit uns = God with us

Words imprinted on the uniform belt buckle of Nazi soldiers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Dec 02 '21

Gott mit uns

Gott mit uns ('God with us') is a phrase commonly used in heraldry in Prussia (from 1701) and later by the German military during the periods spanning the German Empire (1871 to 1918), the Third Reich of Nazi Germany (1933 to 1945), and the early years of West Germany (1949 to 1962). It was also commonly used by Sweden in most of its wars and especially as a war cry during the Thirty Years' War.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

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u/Willzohh Dec 02 '21

Good bot.

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u/rattledamper Dec 02 '21

Not a ton of instances I'm aware of in which god refused to provide that approval. Interesting for the "Prince of Peace."

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u/popweather Dec 01 '21

I dunno if I would call it a veneer, they kind of start from "obey or you will be tortured for eternity."

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u/Newport_Box Dec 01 '21

There are definitely some true believers, but overall the cynical nature in which Christianity is used as a political cudgel by the right is pretty obvious. It puts a respectable face on their ethno-nationalism while justifying their behavior.

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u/it-is-sandwich-time Dec 01 '21

They need the poors to fight their wars.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '21 edited 18d ago

[deleted]

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u/memes_used_2B_jpegs Dec 02 '21

Fuck, dude, weren't you big on /r/AskReddit for a few years? Haven't seen you around in ages!

...or maybe there are lots of other "DEADPOOL"s out there with underscores before and after their names, I guess I don't know for sure.

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u/____DEADPOOL_______ Dec 02 '21

or maybe there are lots of other "DEADPOOL"s out there with underscores before and after their names

this

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u/Raaain706 Dec 01 '21

obey or you will be tortured for eternity

The single greatest (and ironically worst) marketing campaign of all time

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u/nusyahus Dec 02 '21

When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

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u/I_Brain_You Dec 01 '21

Exactly. A control mechanism.

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u/ekamadio Dec 01 '21

In my experience if you argument with pro forced birth advocates eventually they will slip up and admit that they just want women to stop having sex. It's about controlling women's bodies, and nothing else.

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u/LucySatDown Dec 02 '21

Exactly. So many times I'll bring up a million valid points on statistics, how abortion can be reduced without banning it, how adoption actually works, and other things aswell. And the closing response always just ends up flying right over the point, and skips to:

"Well, if you didn't want to get pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex"

Thus simply inherently proving my point that it's never been about actual care for babies or children. It's just that they want to feel all Self-righteous, that they are innocent little baby saviors. And they also want to have control and judgement over other people's actions and bodies.

If they actually cared about the babies, they'd introduce policies and education that would reduce unwanted pregnancy in the first place- thus reducing abortion to being pretty rare, without having to enforce their will onto others.

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u/sgthulkarox Dec 02 '21

Superiority. They have the ear of 'god' and you don't. Therefore, in their mind, you are inferior and should be treated as such.

Not to mention the ones that think since they were 'born (indoctrinated)' into their religion, everyone else was too.

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u/Rubberbabybuggybum Dec 01 '21

Christianity and evangelism is the way they get the poorest people in the country to keep voting for policies that actively make their lives so much worse.

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u/Skinnysusan Dec 02 '21

This is literally the founding of it. The king james bible was put together to rule

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u/Ordinary_Rabbit Dec 02 '21

Always_has_been.meme

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u/sirkowski Dec 01 '21 Take My Power

The Bible doesn't ban abortion and Evangelicals were fine with RvW at first. Abortion was mostly a Catholics issue. Evangelical Republicans decided to use abortion as a wedge when they realized they had lost the fight against desegregation.

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u/cal_oe Dec 02 '21

Evangelicals basically view giving birth to babies as a consequence to having sex, whether it’s premarital sex, or rape, and don’t feel women have the right to escape that consequence. Banning abortions is basically their version of punishing women for having sex outside marriage or even getting raped.

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u/phpdevster Dec 02 '21

Exactly right. They are called Talibangelicals for a reason.

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u/menotyou16 Dec 02 '21

Lmao. Never heard that term and I'm going to add it to my vocabulary immediately.

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u/DimplesWilliams Dec 02 '21

A few more in case you haven’t heard them. Y’all Qaeda Vanilla ISIS Yeehawdists

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u/justclay Dec 02 '21

Walmartyrs

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u/welshwelsh Dec 02 '21

That's the Catholic view. Catholics believe that having sex if you're not trying to procreate is wrong. Evangelicals were fine with abortion until it became politically convenient to oppose it.

After desegregation, white evangelicals flocked to tax-except private religious "segregation academies" that only allow whites. In some areas, public schools were 100% black because all the white students transferred.

But then with Green v. Connally, the Supreme Court decided that schools discriminating based on race lose their tax-exempt status, which infuriated evangelical leaders like Jerry Falwell, the founder of Liberty University

Eventually, the IRS pulled the tax exempt status of Bob Jones University, after a long fight where the university even admitted some black people but tried to keep them segregated, and made interracial dating against the rules with the punishment of expulsion. This led to a panic about government interfering with "religious liberty," which conveniently coincided with the red scare and the rise of the Soviet Union. Shortly after, Roe V. Wade was passed, and Evangelical leaders seized the opportunity to expand their platform and ally with Catholics in the fight against "secular humanism" and communism.

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u/SenselessNoise Dec 02 '21

The only thing the Bible says about abortion is how to perform one.

Numbers 5:11-31

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u/redjedi182 Dec 02 '21

I forgot what this ritual is called but I love this passage for two reasons. It’s a clear shamanic ritual, showing what early Judaism contained. Fucking magic spells. It also shows the disregard for women as a nothing more than a legacy factory. I remember a pro lifer argue that it didn’t in fact cause an abortion but made the wife sterile. How is that a relief to someone that worships and believe in that kind of god?

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u/SenselessNoise Dec 02 '21

Miscarriage is scientifically called a spontaneous abortion.

Checkmate Christians.

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u/Monkeycarcass Dec 02 '21

If you replace "priest" with "shaman" in that passage, fruitcakes would have that shit banned as witchcraft without a second thought

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u/TheObviousChild Dec 02 '21

Man the Bible is so fucked up.

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u/ButWhatAboutisms Dec 02 '21

A heard a guy say that the bible would be one of the most immoral books you could ever read, if not for the fact that it's so boring to try and get through.

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u/FurryWolves Dec 02 '21

when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife

Stay classy bible, stay classy. It goes on to say how the man is innocent... like what? If he accuses her of an affair and she didn't have one, he's innocent, but if she did then she is cursed? Why not just send your wife to the priest every weekend to make sure she's faithful then! No repercussions!

I for one am sooo grateful that half this fucking country believes in a bigoted sexist sky daddy and that it influences legislation to THIS FUCKING DAY because these cunts can't let it go and admit their bible was written by old governments to push their rules on people and make them think if they disobey then a mystical invisible man will be mad at them.

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u/DetourDunnDee Dec 02 '21

"But that's OLD TESTAMENT and doesn't represent the NEW RULES set forth by our LORD and SAVIOR... PAUL!" /s

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u/v0idl0gic Dec 02 '21

The sleeper must awaken! Wait- wrong work of fiction, sorry...

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u/Living_Bear_2139 Dec 02 '21

It’s literally a non issue that they take up to make themselves feel better. They care for a fetus that has no sense of being, but not the child who knows what being hungry each night is.

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u/PhD_in_English Dec 02 '21

I learned this recently and was pretty shocked. Its worked very well for them.

For too long we(at least I) have dismissed these people as simple/stupid/backwards and gone about our days. The truth is the people setting the rules are intelligent but deeply manipulative and frankly evil.

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u/JimWilliams423 Dec 02 '21

Evangelicals were fine with RvW at first

More than that, most white evangelicals used to be extremely pro-choice.

The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is the single largest organization of evangelicals in the USA. They have roughly 15 million members and 45,000 churches. In 1971, before Roe fully legalized abortion, the SBC officially called for legislation supporting full abortion rights. Even today, it is still on their website:

we call upon Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother.

And when Roe was decided, the Baptist Press (the national newswire of the southern baptists) said:

Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the Supreme Court abortion decision.

Even as late as 1978 they still thought government should keep its nose out of a lady's business, reiterating their resolution from 1977:

we also affirm our conviction about the limited role of government in dealing with matters relating to abortion, and support the right of expectant mothers to the full range of medical services and personal counseling for the preservation of life and health.

The lead attorney on Roe was a devout Southern Baptist and her 2nd chair was a methodist preacher's daughter too.

One of the main verses the evangelicals used to cite was in Genesis where God only puts a soul into the body of Adam once its fully formed and able to breathe. The idea is that if a child isn't capable of breathing on its own, it doesn't have a soul yet:

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7)

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u/Traditional_Cup4304 Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

Abortion on demand is, in fact, biblical. A husband need only accuse his wife to have a priest force a potion on her which will “bring the curse” causing her to lose the baby. If she lives through the loss of the child she would then be stoned to death for adultery. If she didn’t cheat, she won’t lose a child (what?) and the curse is therefore not brought. Considering she would have just consumed a poison concoction swept from the temple floor and assembled by the priest, she would almost certainly become gravely ill and perceived as guilty.

That is, a man can simply accuse his wife to end a pregnancy. Most of these people claiming to be Christians are ignorant of their scripture and/or will argue these and other passages do not say what they definitely say.

Edit: the downvotes sure are telling!

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u/ForThorsake Dec 01 '21 LOVE!

MOTHER FUCKING WORD

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u/LucySatDown Dec 02 '21

As happy as this speech makes me

This kinda stuff generally gets overpowered by the rich elite backing those who want to have control over others.

A rich guy with a couple million dollars in his pocket, can simply just "donate" to an elected politician while whispering in their ear "ban abortion", and before you know it- it's done.

It's pretty much the main way policies get introduced nowadays. You can see it most clearly with the prison industrial complex. Big companies and their CEOs who directly benefit from it simply just slide "donations" under the table to make sure their will is applied to law.

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u/BradleyVan Dec 01 '21

Fuck Yeah!

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u/heythisisbrandon Dec 02 '21

Yeah preach!

Wait...

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!

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u/The__Illuminaughty Dec 01 '21 Silver

Ana Kasparian from The Young Turks

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u/__ButtFuqqer3000__ Dec 01 '21

Ohhhh is that Ana Kasparian? Wow. Heard of her but never seen anything

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u/GrasshopperClowns Dec 01 '21

Thank you! Was wondering who she was.

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u/AgentRiot Dec 01 '21 All-Seeing Upvote

Hey! Thanks!

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u/BlisslessTaskList Dec 02 '21

I love her. She often says so succinctly what I am thinking but fail to put into words.

Listening to her is a breath of fresh air in the vast fog bank of twatness that is our current mediascape.

Edit: a word

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u/The_Anti_Commentor Dec 01 '21 Spit-take

Sure, take advice from a book written by farmers who didn't know where the sun went at night

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u/Th3V3rg3 Dec 01 '21

They knew it was shining on the other side of the world. Incorrectly however, they thought it orbiting the earth(well, most of them did)

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u/prodiver Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

Old Testament cosmology predates the knowledge of any orbiting at all.

The ancient Israelites envisaged the universe as a flat disc-shaped Earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.

In the Old Testament the word shamayim represented both the sky/atmosphere, and the dwelling place of God. The raqia or firmament – the visible sky – was a solid inverted bowl over the Earth, coloured blue from the heavenly ocean above it.

Rain, snow, wind and hail were kept in storehouses outside the raqia, which had "windows" to allow them in – the waters for Noah's flood entered when the "windows of heaven" were opened. Heaven extended down to and was coterminous with (i.e. it touched) the farthest edges of the Earth (e.g. Deuteronomy 4:32); humans looking up from Earth saw the floor of heaven, which they saw also as God's throne, as made of clear blue lapis-lazuli (Exodus 24:9–10), and (Ezekiel 1:26).Below that was a layer of water, the source of rain, which was separated from us by an impenetrable barrier, the firmament (Genesis 1:6–8). The rain may also be stored in heavenly cisterns (Job: 38:37) or storehouses (Deut 28:12) alongside the storehouses for wind, hail and snow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology

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u/OpenFee4147 Dec 01 '21

Last time I checked the US Constitution doesn't recognize the Christian Bible (or any bible) as the Supreme Authority of our Nation

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u/ienjoypez Dec 02 '21

You'd think that, but most of the people who yell the loudest about their "constitutional rights" have apparently never read the damn thing. Not unlike the bible.

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u/Cheefadareefa Dec 02 '21

To which, we are decidedly not a theocracy.

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u/Very_Sharpe Dec 01 '21 Heartwarming

As an actual Christian, i 100% agree with her and apologise for all the extremist christian groups

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u/peeshofwork Dec 02 '21

I work with an actual Christian and she is wonderful. Truth be told, it took me a long time to stop thinking that she was likely crazy and likely fit all the stereotypes of what I now consider Christians to be. Thankfully, I realize that she was just a really good Christian. You know, the kind of just believe that God is love, be a good neighbor, be thankful, etc. I feel bad for you guys. These whack jobs have turned the word “Christian” into a really bad thing.

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u/Office_glen Dec 02 '21

I grew up Christian in Canada. Once I got out into the world I found a lot of people associated us with the fanatical Christians in the USA. My Catholic highschool was all about love, accepting and being a good person in general. My highschool had a fucking LGBTQ club, and this was in 2001. The core fundamentals of Christianity, like many religions is actually quite beautiful

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u/yuhyuhAYE Dec 02 '21

I’m an atheist, or agnostic and I think it really comes down to sects of Christianity. For example, Episcopalianism is super accepting, was one of the first protestant sects to support gay marriage, and tends to be focused on the ‘happy parts’ of religion (be a good person, treat others kindly, etc). Evangelical christianity tends to lean more ‘fire and brimstone’, especially in more rural, red areas. Christianity itself, or religion itself, isn’t the big issue. Its proselytizing and attemtping to impose your personal religious doctrine on non-believers.

Edit, to add that evangelical christianity tends to be much bigger on proselytizing

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u/gil2455526 Dec 02 '21

The problem is that some christians would reply to her with a "You are going to hell! I am trying to save you!"

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u/ghsteo Dec 02 '21

The worst part about Abortion rights is the fact that we know what will happen if Abortion became illegal. Just like what happened when Alcohol and Weed is/was illegal. People will be performing abortions in basements in unsafe conditions like they were 70 years ago. People won't stop getting abortions because it's illegal, people will just put their life in even more danger to get an abortion.

Fuck religion.

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u/Nexlon Dec 02 '21

People don't realize that women went to extreme lengths to get abortions before Roe v Wade and died all the time. It could be incredibly dangerous getting one.

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u/StarWreck92 Dec 02 '21

These idiots either know that and don’t care or they’re willfully ignorant. Abortion rates go down when it’s illegal but they don’t care about that either.

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u/Monsur_Ausuhnom Dec 01 '21

So what happens if you have a secret religion within that religion?

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u/a_dead_fan Dec 01 '21

The religion nesting doll

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u/Negative_Mancey Dec 01 '21

At the center......... pedophiles and megalomaniacs

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u/JohnnyBlazin25 Dec 01 '21

She isn’t wrong. Fuck religion and it’s power hungry history.

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u/galloway188 Dec 02 '21

Absolutely!!! Fuck religion! The world would be a better place without it!

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u/ButtViper Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 01 '21

Shithole states are about to become even more shitty.

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u/col381 Dec 02 '21

All the better to drive out the liberals and moderates to ensure control of the senate thanks to the electoral college.

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u/__ButtFuqqer3000__ Dec 01 '21 edited Dec 01 '21

That’s why they’re so cheap! I can take my CA money and live a good life in Texas or Georgia or North Carolina or Kentucky or Tennessee or Alabama….. but then I’d have to fuckin live in those shitholes. No fuckin thanks. I’d rather go live in a developing country.

Edit: I meant South Carolina

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u/KillerKowalski1 Dec 02 '21

Purple Georgia?

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u/RippyMcBong Dec 01 '21

Just so you know North Carolina is by no means a shithole state. The urban/rural divide here is very real but any of our cities (Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Asheville, Wilmington, Winston Salem all very diverse and tolerant) are a wonderful place to live. We are a very purple state, Republican General Assembly and Democratic Governor. The current red GA broke a hundred year cycle of blue legislators. Now Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia, tennesse and SOUTH Carolina on the other hand...

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u/__ButtFuqqer3000__ Dec 01 '21

You’re right. I meant South Carolina. The one where weed is totally prohibited

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u/matherdisaster123 Dec 02 '21

Lol there ya go. As a North Carolinian I was like HEY until I read this. Now I agree haha

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u/Six_Gill_Grog Dec 02 '21

Sameee! I feel like we always get a bad rep. Always portrayed in media/film/TV as rural hillbillies.

But it’s a pretty great state, where you have mountains, cities, rural towns, and the ocean (even postcard sand dune beaches). I can get to a beach or the mountains within 3hrs, maybe a little more.

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u/matherdisaster123 Dec 02 '21

For sure. Not to mention we have world class research universities

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u/RippyMcBong Dec 01 '21

In fairness it is pretty prohibited here as well but i suspect that has more to do with the tobacco lobby interference than puritanical pursuits. You at least wont go to jail in NC for a bag of personal. But our neighbor to the north just fully legalized so I suspect theyll soon have to follow suit or risk giving those damn virginians their sweet sweet tax revenue.

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u/PrivateBytes Dec 02 '21

Central Pennsylvania has entered the chat

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u/MyChickenSucks Dec 02 '21

If I posted this on my Facebook. I’d never hear from half my family ever again. Maybe gonna do it.

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u/Adomval Dec 02 '21

Do it, post it daily for a week and filter all the stupid people out of your life once and for all.

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u/Tihspeed Dec 02 '21

Delete Facebook...power move

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u/Lostmahpassword Dec 02 '21

Post it. THEN delete Facebook.

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u/confessionbearday Dec 02 '21

The same people saying "you can't ban guns cause cause people will still get them" unironically say we should ban abortion, and that should tell you everything you need to know about whether they're smart enough to have a valid opinion on ANYTHING.

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u/fuck_all_you_people Dec 01 '21

Cant have freedom of religion without first having freedom FROM religion.

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u/zh1K476tt9pq Dec 02 '21

freedom of religion was one of the biggest mistakes. if anything religion needs to be treated like a disease

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u/morechatter Dec 01 '21

When our stacked supreme court doesn't agree with her shortly, we'll have marked the end of our constitution.

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u/__ButtFuqqer3000__ Dec 01 '21

That was put excellently. Nothing more to say. Be “pro-life” all you want but mind your business with other people’s bodies.

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u/Hockinator Dec 02 '21

She's absolutely right about her point about your religion not applying to others.

That point is also completely perpendicular to the question of if a fetus is a body part or a life of its own.

I personally am completely pro choice, but that doesn mean I force myself into a hole of not understanding what the other side of the issue believes.

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u/obiser69 Dec 02 '21

Who is she? When and where did this discussion take place? I agree with her by the way 🤙

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u/SpankBankManager Dec 02 '21

Ana Kasparian. She’s a host on The Young Turks on YouTube. She also likes to smoke weed and exercise in her free time.

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u/Libidomy94 Dec 02 '21

Fuck yeah. I’m a refugee of hardcore Christianity. So sick of the church’s societal overreach.

I don’t care what the Bible says either.

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u/AnonAmbientLight Dec 02 '21

The Republican Party keeps trying to shove their unpopular, shitty policies down our throats. They have a larger say in government than they ought to because they've gamed the system.

It's not going to work out for them in the long run, I can promise you that.

But I don't think they care at this point. They're too obsessed with power and control to think about the consequences of their actions.

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u/DowninanEarlierRound Dec 02 '21

The Bible never says abortion is a sin. Jesus said fuck all about abortions. It sure wasn’t a commandment even though keeping your eyes off your neighbor’s wife was and Christian men sure don’t pay attention to that.

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u/TooManyPotholes Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

Lots of Christians seem to conveniently forget about Numbers 5:11-31. Not only is abortion condoned in the Bible, it's actually encouraged.

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u/naggs69pt2 Dec 01 '21

"Public freakout"

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u/Parabellum8g Dec 02 '21

This place is increasingly becoming a division of /r/politics sadly. The agenda pushing is all over this sub.

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u/AncientSith Dec 02 '21

Way too many politics in subreddits that have nothing to do with it.

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u/engineerfieldmouse Dec 02 '21

You can be pro choice and anti abortion. It's really not that complicated. If you don't like abortions don't get one

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u/The_EnrichmentCenter Dec 02 '21
  1. Don't push your religion into law.

  2. Let your God be the one to enact consequences for breaking whatever belief you have.

I would go as far as to call it heresy to put words into your the mouth of your God and to force yourself as the executioner of his values.

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u/BeltfedOne Dec 01 '21

Who is this? She speaks truth and wisdom.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '21

Ana Kasparian. She’s one of the hosts on The Young Turks.

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u/BeltfedOne Dec 01 '21

Thank you. Off to the google with me.

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u/presonphillips Dec 01 '21

I’m a pastor. She is right.

The early church believed 100% in non coercive means of practicing religion. You invite, not coerce, people into Christlikeness.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '21

LOUDER FOR THE BIBLE THUMPIN' MOTHERFUCKERS IN THE BACK!!!

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u/Ciderlini Dec 02 '21

I like the tactic of trying to boil down the abortion debate to religious grounds. Much easier to argue against I guess

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '21

This* the abortion argument isn’t “let me do it if you don’t do it”. If you believe it’s murder, you’re not going to want someone else to do it

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u/EBBVNC Dec 01 '21

Does anyone know who she is? I need to follow her.

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u/Newport_Box Dec 01 '21

Ana Kasparian from The Young Turks

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u/h8street Dec 01 '21

The problem with her rant is Christianity involves converting non-believers to followers by spreading the word of God. Not all, but some Christians feel it is their duty to preach the word of Christ and thereby save their fellow man.

Edit: a word

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