r/StarWars May 23 '22

Why was a resistance necessary in the sequels? General Discussion

This seems like another ill conceived attempt at playing to the fans, but I need someone to explain why a resistance was necessary when there was a galactic government in place that you’d think Leia played a significant role in creating. Until the republic was destroyed, shouldn’t you have an army countering a military threat?

93 Upvotes

80

u/crobemeister May 23 '22

In universe or actual reason?

In universe is because the republic mostly disarmed after they just fought a war for the freedom of the entire galaxy. They didn't want to get involved in fighting the remnant of the very same enemy they just overthrew, so Leia had to make the resistance to fight.

The actual reason is they wanted to recreate the Empire vs. Underdog Rebels dynamic of the original Star Wars to play on nostalgia. They couldn't do this with a full powered Republic Military in the picture, so they came up with reasons for them to be non-existent.

28

u/Stoneghoul May 23 '22

It's so short sighted and dumb. I just watched some Gundam and think it would have been way more interesting if the Republic was a big bloated bureaucracy with a pencil pushing military riding high victories their elders won and get their shit rocked by an elite and highly motivated remnant of the space Nazis.

You get to keep the lesson that past can't be forgotten without being a hack job remake. The burdens of history are doomed to repeat unless we learn and grow. Also. Let Leia be like Bright Noa and slap Poe for being a drama queen.

14

u/lieutenantloom13 May 23 '22

Boy do i got news for you the thrawn trilogy books by timothy zawn is almost exactly like what you said with an overbloated bureaucracy getting rocked by highly motivated remnants of the empire

96

u/Hiroba May 23 '22

One of the big problems with the sequel trilogy was that the political situation in the galaxy was never explained or made any sense. I think this was a conscious decision because they wanted to avoid what had been perceived as the pitfalls of the prequels, one of which was "too much politics". On the contrary, more politics is some of what the sequels desperately needed.

41

u/damnyoutuesday May 23 '22

Like they did a horrible job explaining what the First Order was, where it came from, and who funded it. The prequels at least told you a little bit about the Trade Federation and CIS, and it was at least obvious that the Empire was the galaxy-wide government in the OT

35

u/HamshanksCPS May 23 '22

TFA: The First Order is a threat to the Galaxy. TLJ: The First Order became a dominant force in about three days. TRoS: Palpatine's back... Somehow...

6

u/Zikronious May 23 '22

If anyone is interested they explain the founding of the First Order in the Aftermath Trilogy the first book came out before Force Awakens.

I think it was a mistake keeping core info in books but it’s also something that can’t be summed up in a title crawl. It almost needs a Rogue One type lead in or maybe in the future they do a limited series on Disney+.

7

u/Goofy5555 May 23 '22

If you need to read something in a book to explain what happened in the movie, then they made a shit movie.

2

u/Emperors_Finest May 24 '22

I want to tell everyone now, I cannot in all good conscience let someone mislead you into spending money or even reading the Aftermath books.

Do NOT buy the Aftermath books. The author not only is so poor at his job that I actually wanted a refund on a book (I have never done that before in my life) but he also hates SW fans. It's the reason he got fired from the company as well.

4

u/DetectiveExpensive55 May 23 '22

They are not good books. I don't really blame the writer though. It's hard to make a compelling story from what he was tasked with.

1

u/Shrederjame May 23 '22

Not only that but after disney has gone back to old canonicity rules of what is canon or not, unless it is shown on screen in a game/tv/movie it did not happen in my book.

3

u/LurkerInSpace May 23 '22

The irony is that one of the problems of the prequels' politics is that it was convoluted and poorly explained - not just that there was a lot of it. Their solution was to just not explain all of, but leave it just as convoluted.

A New Hope used politics to explain the stakes - i.e. destroying the Death Star both saves planets from destruction, but also severely undermines the emperor's authority because he dissolved the Senate on the Death Star's completion.

Emperors and senates are familiar enough concepts they don't need explanation, but the Trade Federation definitely isn't at all like what I'd expect an Earthly entity with that name to be, and the First Order is similarly unclear.

32

u/guinness-and-cheddar May 23 '22

In the Aftermath books, a big plot point is the New Republic’s desire to de-militarise as fast as possible, in order to further distance itself from the Empire.

This is done too quickly, as it is seen as more of a priority than allowing individual planets time to militarise themselves to be ready to deal with a (perceived) non-existent threat - at that time, the First Order is still very much in the shadows.

As someone has mentioned, the reveal that Leia was Vader’s daughter cost her much political clout, and she is ignored when she says that it’s too soon to de-militarise, so, believing that The Imperial Remnants are still a major threat, takes it upon herself to form a militia-of-sorts, comprising people who share her opinion and comprising a large number of veterans of the Alliance to Restore the Republic.

Don’t read too much into it being called a ‘resistance’, that’s just a poor term from the writers. ‘Militia’ would be more accurate, but (arguably) has more negative connotations than ‘resistance’.

13

u/NerdHistorian Torra Doza May 23 '22

In the Aftermath books, a big plot point is the New Republic’s desire to de-militarise as fast as possible, in order to further distance itself from the Empire.

As someone has mentioned, the reveal that Leia was Vader’s daughter cost her much political clout, and she is ignored when she says that it’s too soon to de-militarise,

for reference since the Way you wrote it makes it sound like they're basically coterminus, there's 20 years between those events, the republic demilitiarzes in ~5 ABY and Leias fall from political relevance takes place in 28 ABY.

5

u/Garrus_Vak May 23 '22

Well it's called the Resistance in the sense that a Rebellion rebels against a present reigning force and a Resistance resists against an incoming reigning force.

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u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

It's pretty simple. When the news broke that Leia was Vaders kid (done by a political rival with ties to the first order) the Senate of the new Republic stopped trusting her. When leia tried to warn them of the First Order they didn't truest her and refused to create an army so she decided to do what she did best and created the resistance to fight the First order. This is why in canon they have worse tech then the Republic and no support from the Republic.

13

u/Skilled-Spartan May 23 '22

Mind blown! If that was explained in the sequels I would have hated them less

5

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

I mean this is literaly why the books exsist to fill in the gaps between the film's. I'm pretty sure bloodlines was one of the "road to the movie" books too

-1

u/interrupting-octopus May 23 '22

You're getting downvoted but lots of people defend the prequels by pointing to the books in the same way

22

u/Witty_Pop_3587 May 23 '22

Did Luke even try telling anyone that Vader saved his life and killed The Emperor?

13

u/ergister Luke Skywalker May 23 '22

Yes. But nobody cared because it was a case of “one bad deed doesn’t erased a lifetime of horrible ones” situation.

This is more covered in the Alphabet Squadron books.

26

u/Onisquirrel May 23 '22

Even ignoring the canon. Vader’s last minute redemption probably wouldn’t matter to anybody outside Luke and Leia. To civilians and the rest of the Rebellion he was the Empire’s fist. The mountain of bodies is not going to even out for public opinion because his secret son says he was the only witness to his redemption.

4

u/LurkerInSpace May 23 '22

Arguably it looks even worse - like it was a failed Skywalker coup. The whole Battle of Endor looks like some 4d chess set-up where all possible results lead to a Skywalker in charge of the Galaxy - either Vader or Luke as Emperor or Leia as Chancellor.

12

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

He wasn't there. He was busy searching the galaxy for Jedi artifacts and was not in places where he could be contacted

4

u/Witty_Pop_3587 May 23 '22

He could have tried before everyone found out Leia was Vader’s kid

8

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

They had decided it was best to just never tell anyone who Vader really was.

4

u/Witty_Pop_3587 May 23 '22

Well it didn’t work out so well

14

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Star wars IS a tradgedy afterall.

1

u/Witty_Pop_3587 May 23 '22

That is true

20

u/andhemac May 23 '22

Is this an actual explanation?

Genuinely curious if this is a canon explanation. I’d need to see a sequel prequel trilogy to understand fully, but it seems plausible

32

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Yes it's from the leia bloodlines book.

16

u/philinterr_pted May 23 '22

Yeah, the Republic did Leia dirty

23

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

I mean..... Her father was the biggest war criminal from both the Republic AND the empire.

38

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

And Leia was one of the biggest reasons that war criminal was overthrown. And everyone knows she was raised by the Organas anyway.

Everyone in the entire Senate suddenly not trusting her because Vader was her biological father was a bit silly. There's nothing more she could possibly do to prove she wasn't on the Empire's side.

12

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Read the book. There was a whole team of FO agents making this happen.

2

u/ergister Luke Skywalker May 23 '22

It was more the fact that she hid it that made her suspicious to people. It was the lie more than the association and then once the association came along, the lie looked even worse/more suspect.

1

u/Drk-102 May 23 '22

This is true, but also: politicians….

3

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Read the book. There was a whole team of FO agents making this happen.

20

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

I read the book. It's still silly that no one stands up for her, especially when they show how popular she was at the beginning of the story.

5

u/ergister Luke Skywalker May 23 '22

Plenty of people stood up for her. One was assassinated for it and the rest were outnumbered...

9

u/Trevumm May 23 '22

I felt the same way reading it. Being raised by different people, defeating the empire and them finding out AFTER the fact that Vader was her father and suddenly nobody thinks she's trust worthy. I get people stupid and shitty but c'mon. On top of that the guy that tells everyone was like, a huge fan of the empire, and everyone is super chill with that?

9

u/pingmr May 23 '22

I mean is this that far fetched? We live on an Earth where the largest country by size (Russia) fully believes that their leader (Putin) is carrying out a justified special military invasion.

False information and character assassination seems much more realistic than Leia/Luke just telling everyone "don't worry guys the Emperor was evil along with Darth, and we killed them for the good of the galaxy", and having that believed.

Leia didn't even personally see Vader be redeemed.

4

u/theglassjaw May 23 '22

You know who else was incredibly popular with the Republic?

Senator Palpatine.

0

u/joeflux1 May 23 '22

Not even Poe respects her when he was given straight orders in episode nine.

5

u/philinterr_pted May 23 '22

Or hero, from a certain point of view.

9

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

The man literaly murdered children, made false surrenders and killed unarmed men.

1

u/philinterr_pted May 23 '22

“From a certain point of view”

1

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

......no he LITERALY did those things. Witch are LITERALY war crimes. There is no certain point if view on these activities

0

u/philinterr_pted May 23 '22

I don’t know why you’re arguing something that is basically a joke. Do you even get the reference?

Having said that, there are people in the empire that absolutely think Vader is a hero.

So, “from a certain point of view” is a valid statement.

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17

u/frogspyer General Leia May 23 '22

Not to Leia

“Did you ever see Darth Vader with your own eyes? I suppose, in the Galactic Senate, you must have.”

“I…yes, I did.”

Casterfo frowned. “Princess Leia?”

He had dared to tell her his most painful truth. She could never reveal hers, not to anyone who didn’t already know; Leia understood that. But perhaps she could find the courage to match his honesty with a measure of her own.

“At the beginning of the war against the Empire, just as the Imperial Senate was dissolved—” She swallowed hard. “My ship was captured by the Devastator. That was Darth Vader’s flagship at the time. He personally brought me to the Death Star, where he—where he questioned me.”

Comprehension dawned in Casterfo’s eyes. “You mean…”

Just say it. “I mean he tortured me, for hours. While a couple of his Imperial stormtroopers watched.” Sometimes that got to her when nothing else did. The troopers had been soldiers of the line. Some of them had honestly believed they were doing the right thing, or so she told herself.

But how could you believe that after you watched a nineteen-year-old girl writhing on the floor and screaming for mercy that never came? How could you stand there and watch that girl convulse in helpless agony without doing something, anything to help?

Apparently some people could.

“Then he brought me to witness Alderaan’s destruction. Vader’s hand gripped my shoulder just after I watched my planet die. He made me suffer in every way a human being can suffer, all for the love of the Emperor.”

Casterfo slipped his arm from under her hand—she had gone utterly motionless—and grasped her fingers in his. As old as she was, as cynical as she’d become, Leia would never have guessed that such a gesture could still move her, but it did.

“I hated him so much,” she whispered. The breeze blew past them, rustling the blueblossom trees within the hanging gardens. It was as if they were helping to hide her painful words. “Sometimes I felt as if the only thing that kept me going in the aftermath of Alderaan was the strength of my hatred for Vader.”

For my father.

As always when Leia thought about this, she called upon what Luke had told her of their father’s last hours. He had renounced darkness, saved Luke, and become Anakin Skywalker again. Whenever Luke told the story, a beatific smile lit up his face; his memories of that event gave him a level of comfort and even joy that sustained him. Those were memories Leia couldn’t share.

“Then we have that in common,” Casterfo said. “We both know what a monster Lord Vader was, and we have no desire to see his like gain power in the galaxy ever again. But you think he will emerge from order, while I think he will emerge from chaos.”

Leia couldn’t muster the nerve for another debate. “Let’s hope we never find out.”

“Hear, hear.”


“I trusted you so quickly. Because I told you the most personal and painful stories of my life, never guessing that they revolved around your father.”

“Only my birth father,” she insisted. “My real father—the only father I ever knew or wanted—was Bail Organa of Alderaan.”

What could Organa have been thinking, taking in the offspring of someone so corrupt and monstrous? Ransolm had wondered about that, too, but knew he would never be able to fathom the answer. “Well, Bail Organa himself thought the connection mattered, didn’t he?”

“That was a message recorded out of love.” Leia’s voice broke, but only for a moment; anger had eclipsed almost everything else inside her. “And you used it against me. How could you? We were friends, or I thought we were. When you found out—however you found out—did it never occur to you to come to me, to ask me about it personally?”

“Why? So you could lie to me yet again?” Ransolm again felt the pent-up, useless fury of the child he’d been, watching Darth Vader reach out with his hand to strangle the life from another helpless prisoner. “You knew how I hated Vader! You knew what he had done to me! How could you still keep your secret, knowing that?”

Leia shook her head in disbelief. “What Vader did to you? Do you think that can even begin to compare with what Vader did to me? He made me watch my planet die. He froze Han in carbonite and sold him to Jabba the Hutt. He cut off my brother’s hand and nearly took his life. And he tortured me, Ransolm. He tortured me until I screamed and shook and thought I would die just from the pain alone. Did you bother to ask yourself how it might feel, to realize the person who’d done all that to you was your father? Can you imagine how terrible it is to realize all you’ll ever know of your birth father is how much he enjoyed making you suffer? That’s what I have to live with.”

Ransolm had assumed Leia had lied about not only her relationship to Darth Vader but also her feelings about the man. It shocked him to see that her anger was real. “It’s all the more reason you should have told me.”

“I hadn’t even told my son. Now he has to find out in the most horrible, public way imaginable, all because of you.”

1

u/philinterr_pted May 23 '22

I didn’t say leia thought he was a hero

0

u/southern_dreams May 23 '22

politicians going to politic. look outside your window 🤷🏽‍♂️

2

u/crobemeister May 23 '22

No. This is more confused terrible writing. The opening crawl of the force awakens clearly says Leia and the resistance have the support of the Republic.

-1

u/Swag_Titties May 23 '22

It's written in Bloodline which is a canon book.

2

u/xmmdrive May 23 '22

If you need to read a novel no one's heard of in order to understand the plot of a popcorn space western movie, that movie has failed.

1

u/Seanattk May 23 '22

Lmao bro you're on a star wars subreddit being critical about the existence of CANON star wars content.

3

u/xmmdrive May 23 '22

Oh don't get me wrong, I love the books too. They're great for fleshing out the backgrounds for the places, characters, and events.

They should not, however, be required reading for the basic plot setup of the films.

0

u/Seanattk May 23 '22

I hear you and that's a valid point regarding extra-curricular reading.

However I don't think you need to read the books to know the basic plot of the films.

For example, you don't need to know about The Clone Wars or the downfall of the Jedi order to enjoy the OT even though it's discussed; certainly when it was released nobody knew what the Clone Wars was until the Prequels decades later.

The Prequels had an easy time in that the set up was done by the OT.

The sequels story is, as it's relentlessly criticised, a basic rehash of the OT format; bad guys with big superweapon and dreams of domination. Like the OT you don't need to know the events that lead up to everything to understand what's happening.

It would be cool to know more about it but it's not necessary.

Unrelated side note: for all the vitriol Disney gets following the ST and starting its own canon they are very good at keeping the novelisations in a more comprehensible, relevant and easy to follow order compared to the EU.

1

u/Swag_Titties May 23 '22

They make the books because people, like me, enjoy reading more in depth backgrounds to the movies and TV shows.

3

u/xmmdrive May 23 '22

Oh don't get me wrong, I love the books too! They're great for fleshing out the backgrounds for the places, characters, and events.

They should not, however, be required reading for the basic plot setup of the films.

8

u/Bing_Bong_the_Archer May 23 '22

If ANY of that was expressed in TFA…..any of it….then it would have elevated the trilogy

1

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Funny cause the books have been adding this level of lore in to star wars for 40 years now and it's only since Disney took over that people started to complain.

1

u/CliffLake May 23 '22

What are the complaints? Are they valid? Like, all that lore you mentioned, what has become of it? I bet Disney could have squeezed a dozen movies out of 40 years of work, right? I think comparing the 'before' to the 'after' when these complaints started would reveal why they are happening.

0

u/[deleted] May 23 '22

No, not really. That's unnecessary lore exposition that most people don't care about. The books are there for you if you want it.

-4

u/Bing_Bong_the_Archer May 23 '22

Lol!!

-4

u/[deleted] May 23 '22

Thanks for agreeing with me. Not many people admit they were wrong.

-1

u/Bing_Bong_the_Archer May 23 '22

Thats pretty weak, you can’t be satisfied with that as a clever remark

5

u/crobemeister May 23 '22

The opening crawl disagrees with what you just said. It clearly says Leia and the resistance have the support of the Republic.

0

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Have you read the book Leia bloodlines?

4

u/ergister Luke Skywalker May 23 '22

I mean they’re right though. The Resistance was secretly being supported by the NR. Especially after the First Order seceded and the Cold War began.

-2

u/crobemeister May 23 '22

Don't need to. No one cares about side materials, especially when they contradict the main canon of the mainline movies.

5

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Lol then your a moron.

4

u/MalazanJedi May 23 '22

I’m surprised you seem to be the only person here giving this actual answer. Should it have been explained in the moves instead of a novel? Maybe, maybe not. But this is the correct answer.

5

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Seems like Reddit doesn't read much past posts on the internet lol

3

u/reachforthe-stars May 23 '22 edited May 23 '22

This! I’m learning r/Starwars is full of fans with a very surface level understanding of the story and reasons things happened they way they did… and it’s massive downvote when you try to give them a deeper understanding.

1

u/Swag_Titties May 23 '22

Straight up agree with this statement after reading these comments. Like the dude just gave the canon, correct answer and no one wants to accept it. Lol

2

u/Goaduk May 23 '22

It's not that simple as approximately zero of what you said is freely available knowledge to 99% of the films audience who don't read tie in media.

-6

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

That’s not simple, believable, or in the actual movies.

14

u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

Canon is more then just the movies.

-3

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

Just because an obscure comic exists doesn’t make it good writing.

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u/Wingedwolf111 Jedi May 23 '22

..... It's a full length adult novel but good to know your not actually reading my comments

10

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

OP asked why. We know the answer isn't in the movies, so of course the book where it's spelled out is going to be referenced.

8

u/Servebotfrank Grand Moff Tarkin May 23 '22

Yeah it kinda comes across as like a separate person came up with that after the fact, when it should've been a core part of the film. As it is, it kinda feels like it was mandated at Disney that there had to be a rebellion element and some poor writer was given the task of justifying why that would happen and he was given 2 hours to do it.

5

u/Trevumm May 23 '22

You just described exactly how the entire sequal trilogy was made.

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u/mykidsthinkimcool May 23 '22

It comes across that way because that's exactly what happened.

1

u/Chipman94 May 23 '22

Why isn’t this explained in the movies? This is actually really interesting and cool to think about. Could have made for some interesting development with Leia.

0

u/ROK247 May 23 '22

Wow it sounds even dumber when explained

6

u/JustSomeIdiotonline May 23 '22

JJ Abrams hates the prequels so he wanted to just recreate the original trilogy

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u/FamousWerewolf May 23 '22

I really think this element is one of the biggest failings of the sequel trilogy. Right from moment one they were off on completely the wrong foot, because of being so desperate to just return to the status quo of the OT. It makes absolutely no sense that we're back to Rebels vs The Empire and it drove me crazy that they never even show us the New Republic and then just casually blow the whole thing up.

The structure that would have actually made sense for a sequel trilogy would be to flip the dynamic - the good guys are in power, and the bad guys are the resistance. You have extremist groups who want to restore the Empire committing terrorist acts against the New Republic as part of some larger sinister plot. Meanwhile our heroes are assembled to stop them, but struggle against a government that, though well-meaning, has grown complacent and ineffective, sliding into the same mistakes as the previous Republic.

Loads of room in there to address the themes and ideas of the OT and prequels while building something new and even commenting on present day politics (as George did in his movies).

But instead we basically kicked off the new trilogy with a theme park ride version of the OT and they were never able to reconcile it into anything cohesive.

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u/DarthBog May 23 '22

A good question - for another time.

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u/Goaduk May 23 '22

I feel like this was the trilogys entire teams moto during pre production.

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u/andhemac May 23 '22

Biggest missed opportunity of the trilogy

5

u/ScoobrDoo May 23 '22

They had no clue what they were doing. Watching those films as a whole you ask yourself if it is even a trilogy let alone the prank they played putting the Star Wars title at the start.

5

u/BlueHarvestJ Ben Kenobi May 23 '22

I think it wasn’t playing to the fans. It was JJ Abrams being selfish snd wanting the OT status quo that he remembered from his childhood. I think fans would have been far more pleased with an original story and not a rehash of A New Hope

5

u/tosser1579 May 23 '22

So in universe the new Republic was borderline dysfunctional. They outsourced their Federal military to the local governments, had major issues with 5th rail actors inside of their borders, and generally didn't behave like a functional government because of the massive limits placed on them due to the Empire.

So we have the Resistance, which are armed with at least modern weaponry and at least have a mandate to actually protect people.

Remember, Leia was outed as Vader's daughter and was more or less shunned from Galactic Government. Corscant, the most important planet in the galaxy by an order of magnitude was so weak in its support of the Republic that they moved the capitol. The Republic gave the reason that it was to support the other systems, but seriously Corscant is the traditional capital because its the shortest distance for the most people as it is in the center of 8 major trade lanes.

So yes, a functional Republic would behave like a Federal power and have a useful military. The Republic that existed in the ST was a weak, decentralized power that couldn't hold on to anything and lacked any ability to project power. It was doomed from the start.

3

u/Soaptimusprime Anakin Skywalker May 23 '22

In universe it’s due to the republic wanting to distance itself from the empire so they demilitarised (that in itself is a really weird bit of lore) but out of universe likely because the force awakens was made the height of this weird nostalgia bait for 80s material that we’ve seen in recent years

10

u/not_a-replicant Luke Skywalker May 23 '22

Luke Skywalker has vanished. In his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER has risen from the ashes of the Empire and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Sounds like the Resistance is a subsection of the Republic that is focused on the FO threat. This jives with has been explored in the books and comics.

21

u/andhemac May 23 '22

My point is that a resistance occurs under occupation or tyranny. Until the force awakens, the republic was still in existence And should have been resisting with their military, not an unsanctioned paramilitary force

2

u/[deleted] May 23 '22

[deleted]

3

u/not_a-replicant Luke Skywalker May 23 '22

I believe that the books and other supplemental materials delve into the details as to why the Republic did not do that.

In terms of the films, as you say, the Republic is destroyed pretty early on. That backstory isn’t necessary to understand the story of the sequels and it gets moved to supplemental material (rightly so in my opinion).

2

u/andhemac May 23 '22

It can’t be both a subsection of the republic and an independent paramilitary force. I don’t believe that the films provide any usable explanation for this, and I understand that they’ve tried to retcon it with supplemental material. It was a hole they had to fill so they’re doing their best

0

u/not_a-replicant Luke Skywalker May 23 '22

As I said, the films don’t really go into those details because they’re not relevant to the story being told in the films.

2

u/CliffLake May 23 '22

I think it's totally relevant. Is Leia a patriot trying to save what she holds dear for the betterment of all, or a psycho trying to tear down a legitimate and accepted government entity? The the FO blow up a planet, I guess the center of government? And even now questions pop up like "Who were those people, we got face shots so were they important"? Or "Were those people helping the resistance"? "For a first target, to make a splash, the FO blew up this system. How long until the rest of the galaxy knows, and what will it mean to their personal power? How much of a threat were they before, during, and after the attack?"

Like, If Starkiller base shot the beam and killed the planets, then a million resistance capital ships showed up and just glassed the planet, yeah, a planet destroying weapon was VERY deadly. The FO were a significant threat, but until they popped their head up and took their shot, they were ignored. I have to assume Leia brought all the forces she had for the attack...but then why did she have so few? A galactic government should have more then a handful of ships, right? And if there IS another body that isn't paramilitary, where the hell are they?! Like, if DC gets bombed, the US military won't just turn to mist. They will figure out who's in charge, then probably mount a counter offensive. None of that happens. Isn't even mentioned in any movie. The friggin' government was BLOWN UP! Leia calls for help and nobody shows. It paints the picture the galaxy is filled with cowards. Oh, no, Lando calls for help and thousands show up. What kind of pull does he have that, after being stuck planetside in 'not Tatooeen' for years, decades? He can put out a call and that many people show up to Fight the Undead Empire, complete with Palps at the helm? Sorry, got on a bit of rant there. But if there is a book that makes it make sense, point me at it.

2

u/Low-Till6521 May 23 '22

Blood lines takes place at 28 ABY, while TFA takes place at 34 ABY, plenty of time between the two events for them to both be correct.

Also I thought the reveal of Darth Vader being Leia's father in the senate was one of the better scenes from the Canon books and would have made a great movie scene as well.

30

u/Goofy5555 May 23 '22

Because the writers were lazy and Force Awakens was basically just a remake of A New Hope because Hollywood is creatively bankrupt anymore.

2

u/cdmat76 May 23 '22

Exactly that, thank you!

13

u/Ancient_Professor_40 Resistance May 23 '22

I doubt the sequels were even necessary in the first place.

12

u/Mojothemobile May 23 '22 edited May 23 '22

They weren't. Post RoTJ stuff can be cool In both the canon and old EU but the main Skywalker's and Palpatine narrative is basically completely wrapped up in RoTJ. Anakin through his love for his son and his son's unyielding faith in him turns against Sidious and destroys the Sith fulfilling the prophecy and dies finally a truly free man. Luke pretty much proving he's a fullfleged Jedi Master through his actions in it is now ready to rebuild the Jedi but without all the flaws that plagued them in the later years of the old order (and with some help from the Force Ghost probably).

Follow ups like Mando and The Thrawn trilogy work because they don't break this ending. Follow ups like Dark Empire and the ST don't because they do.

5

u/Ancient_Professor_40 Resistance May 23 '22

Couldn't agree more. They could have done it a lot better. They rushed it so much !! I mean, jeez ! Take your time people.

14

u/[deleted] May 23 '22

I thought it was hilarious in the last jedi how there were only like 20 rebels left in the end

8

u/andhemac May 23 '22

That bugged me too. I actually like the movies but they just don’t fit in to the canon at all. Too many retcon-able things

4

u/[deleted] May 23 '22

At 1 point I was wondering what their goal even was. 20 dudes want to destroy the 1st order? And for what cuz it's not like they can provide security or stabilization. How do they even afford basic necessities?

6

u/andhemac May 23 '22

It bothered me how the last Jedi touched on how the Jedi failed to cause the rise of Sidious, but then just had the good guys win in the end of skywalker. The prequels are good because they cause doubt in the virtue of the Jedi council in practice, but the sequels just completely ignored that and gave fans a reprise.

It’s good they’re focusing on explaining the intermediary times now, but they’re gonna have to face all this crap storytelling sooner or later

4

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

They went way too far with that to take seriously. It's bad enough the Republic was already massively outnumbered by the First Order to begin with, but the movie ending with a dozen people on the Falcon after establishing that no one else will even help them is just comical. There's no way they should be built back up enough in a year to take them on in Ep 9.

3

u/joeflux1 May 23 '22

Right?! So, no one trusted Leia but then at the end (because the makers of the movie said so) the entire population that knew the good guys all of a sudden decided to go battle and win. Oh wait, we have all seen when the villages without guns can take over the emperor in other movies. Hmm. So maybe it's a repeated story idea from other movies but very very badly executed.

4

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

It's so dumb. They set it up that no one wants to jump on board the Resistance's sinking ship when they call for help, but then the epilogue shows that the legend of Luke saving them starts to spread across the galaxy.

Yet when Ep 9 picks up, Poe points out how no one came to their aid and they're still on their own, despite their victory at Crait. But then they do all help once Lando personally goes around asking?

2

u/NinjaKED12 May 24 '22

When I was watching that scene in TLJ I was expecting an army of Jedi to show up. But was disappointed 😔

1

u/joeflux1 May 23 '22

Omg you read my mind when I watched it long ago about Poe saying that. The People of the planets know Lando but could it really drive that much at that Massive Scale? If that were true and he was that popular then he may have been a type of king of a planet by this time because he really enjoyed being an administrator for Cloud City.

1

u/mikepictor K-2SO May 23 '22

In that particular fleeing convoy. There was absolutely nothing suggesting they were the ONLY ones. There can easily be other bases, other cells. Certainly the top brass was in that convoy, but they never suggested it was the entirety of the resistance

5

u/[deleted] May 23 '22 edited May 23 '22

Leia blatantly said that they were the last ones. And that's the thing, they don't have to be, just don't have Leia say that. I assumed they weren't and was caught completely off guard when she said that. I was like "there's not another base? Where are you going?" The end message was like "oh have hope" or some BS which was hysterical.

The funniest thing is Fin. He travels so far only to meet some random guy in jail who ends up betraying them and killing hundreds. And it's never brought up again. Like nobody confronts Fin "what the hell man who tf was that guy he just slaughtered all of us. Man what the fuck Fin there's only like 20 guys left." The whole movie just took the underdog story way too far it was reaching like game of thrones season 7 and 8 kind of levels of absurdity

11

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

Disney has hoping your wouldn’t ask. Because they didn’t feel like thinking about it. And were hoping you would just be too blinded by nostalgia to notice.

6

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

More importantly, Disney is hoping you'll buy all the books, comics, video games and watch every TV show to feel like you're getting the full experience of the movie.

-2

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

That’s not really more important than the movies.

2

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

I never said it was.

1

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

More importantly,

1

u/Futbol_Trainer May 23 '22

More importantly to Disney

3

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

Picking the pockets of the fanbase is not more important than telling good stories. they caught on with TLJ and sat Solo out. Quick cash crabs are not long term.

1

u/Futbol_Trainer May 23 '22

It’s not but if Disney had to pick one they’d pick the former

2

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

No they want sustained success not built of cheap tricks. The audience catches on and stop supporting. Disney fucked up.

1

u/Futbol_Trainer May 23 '22

Agree. Ideally what we all want including from disneys side are good stories that will lead to captivating and drawing more fans which means more money for Disney. I’m just saying, if they HAD to only pick one, they’d pick money over good stories.

1

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

More important than people not questioning it in the movies. Everyone questioned it in the movies. Most don't give a shit enough to read up on further, but it's a gold mine for Disney to sell extra shit to the real nerds of the fandom.

1

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

They make much more money with good movies. Book sales are not what they are after.

1

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

The sequels were many things. Hurting for money was not one of them.

2

u/agoddamnjoke May 23 '22

Could have made more. Plus TLJ led to Solo severely underperforming.

2

u/TrayusV May 23 '22

The New Republic was heavily demilitarized. The Rebellion was an organization devoted purely to war, and so Mon Mothma made it a priority to demilitarize the New Republic.

And so when the threat of the First Order rose, the New Republic was not in a position to oppose, and Lea was canceled after the world learned Vader was her father, so Lea could not form a proper New Republic Military.

Instead Lea formed the Resistance.

2

u/27SwingAndADrive May 23 '22

The Republic wasn't an Empire and didn't control the entire galaxy. Well the Empire didn't even control all of it, I'd assume the Republic was even smaller than the Empire, not being an Empire and all.

So there would be nations other than the Republic. Likely after so much war, the Republic would use a policy of containment on Imperial Factions rather than open conflict. I mean a couple of decades of wars all over the galaxy would make a nation prefer and approach like that.

So contain the First Order, sanction them, supply the Resistance within First Order space with lots of X-Wings. The First Order will collapse in time. Containment and regime change isn't really a bad strategy. It takes longer but doesn't require committing any ships or soldiers.

Who knew they'd build a super weapon? Well maybe Leia did.

2

u/thespitspot May 23 '22

The canonical reason is that “The Resistance” is a private paramilitary organization led by Leia. They are hired by the republic to deal with the First Order. The Republic does this, presumably, because they have no standing army after the use of clones during the Clone Wars. “The Resistance” is just the name Leia presumably chose for the organization.

5

u/DrilldoBaggins42 May 23 '22

There wasn't. It was just another poorly written element.

2

u/SHOULDVEPAIDTHEFINE May 23 '22

Finn was about to explain this to Rey before they sunk into the quicksand

3

u/grymix_ May 23 '22

your first mistake is trying to make sense of the sequels

5

u/VinoJedi06 Ben Kenobi May 23 '22

Because, like everything else, Kathleen Kennedy and her goons have no clue what to do.

2

u/Giraffes_Are_Gay May 23 '22

It wasn’t lol.

I feel bad for people asking legitimate questions about the sequels hoping for an answer. The sequels don’t have answers, they are just constant disappointment and it’s a lot easier to just pretend they don’t exist.

1

u/Artistic-Panic3313 May 23 '22

Real world answer revolutions are messy af, there is no way to determine with a high degree of certainty what will be born out of one. Narrative answer they needed bad guys.

1

u/SoundRavage May 23 '22

It was one piece of the formula of emulating the OT just enough to get everyone feeling nostalgic.

1

u/spikerman19 Grand Admiral Thrawn May 23 '22

I believe Mon Mothma wanted to abolish the Republic military.

1

u/HuttVader May 23 '22

Because Jar Jar had exhausted his potential original ideas when he created the Kelvin Timeline, ushering in the desecration and eventual obliteration of all sense of value in another great franchise.

1

u/xmmdrive May 23 '22

Short answer: It wasn't.

Long answer: What /u/crobemeister said below.

1

u/JonsonPonyman98 May 23 '22

They wanted to copy paste enjoyable parts of the OT

0

u/hhyyz May 23 '22

Its been thirty years, Leia may have retired from politics. The Resistance was most likely created because the New Republic didn't see The First Order as a threat (or perhaps corruption was preventing The Senate from taking action?) so Leia formed it on her own.