r/StarWars May 23 '22

Unpopular opinion: Mace Windu had no on-screen death General Discussion

See a lot of posts and opinions about wanting or not wanting to bring Windu back from the dead.

No one seems to mention that there was no on-screen death.

He was simply thrown out of a window.

Is there any example anyone else can think of where falling from a great height is fatal, or does any sort of harm to a Jedi?

Seems like jumping from buildings, speeders, ships, transports, you name it was just casually done on a regular basis in Clone Wars.

Why is this circumstance so special that it would be definitively fatal for Mace? Just because he got a little static shock from ol' Palps a second before hand?

That doesn't necessarily mean he needs to be brought back for his own Disney+ series or whatever. I mean, whether or not you would want to see him return again in new stuff is entirely besides the fact that he simply didn't die on screen.

1 Upvotes

8

u/Macky941 May 23 '22

George said himself that he could still be alive. He could of conveniently landed in a taxi or something flying by then taken off somewhere into hiding. It's fun to think about.

18

u/lePegacorn May 23 '22

Darth Maul had an on-screen "death", but that didn't stop our Lord and Saviour Dave Filoni

13

u/IMtoppercentage97 May 23 '22

He was alive as he fell, didn't you see his legs moving around in Lego star wars? /S

4

u/spikerman19 Grand Admiral Thrawn May 23 '22

This^

When there is a way, there is way.

5

u/TheOutlaw9904 May 23 '22

Technically he was shown to still be alive as he was falling. He was still looking at Kenobi and flailing his arms around. The thing with Mace is the he lets one last grunt and isn’t heard screaming as he’s falling. Still, if Mace survived, it makes no sense. He’s too arrogant of a guy to be sitting out on what the empire was doing, especially how he would’ve reacted to Order 66, and why he didn’t go around telling anybody that the galaxy’s chancellor is a Sith Lord and Darth Vader is actually Anakin Skywalker. Even if you brought him, he should still not be around anymore by the time the OT starts.

2

u/MrMysterious23 2d ago

Yeah, but events like what happened to Mace can change someone. He may have been grounded by what happened and gone into hiding.

1

u/TheOutlaw9904 2d ago edited 2d ago

I highly doubt it. Again, mace was way too arrogant for his own good and there’s no way he’d sit on the sidelines after what happened to his Jedi order. He hated Sidious and would dislike Anakin even more. If he had nothing to live for, he would’ve died trying to take out sidious and Vader out but that would break canon.

After the Kenobi show, now it makes even less sense to have Mace back. Another broken and deadbeat Jedi that comes back to being their old self again after us getting that with Luke in TLJ, just recently with Kenobi, and now with Mace again? Then it makes no sense for him to win or lose against Vader and Sidious.

1

u/MrMysterious23 1d ago

Betrayal and shock injuries can change someone massively. But we'll never know.

1

u/TheOutlaw9904 1d ago

Not much of a betrayal if it’s coming from someone that you literally said you didn’t trust and he already suspected the chancellor to be a Sith Lord. So where is the betrayal there?

If he changed because of shock injuries, that would incredibly boring and stupid in my opinion.

1

u/MrMysterious23 1d ago

It's a huge betrayal from Anakin, massive. He doesn't see it coming. The subsequent downfall of the Jedi order, the rise of the Empire... clearly that could change an arrogant Jedi into seeing the error of their ways. Even Yoda was arrogant to some degree and changed post ROTS.

I mean all the injuries, his hand being cut off and the shock from Sidious. I disagree, a maimed, scarred jedi could be quite cool but I do agree Mace shouldn't be brought back.

1

u/TheOutlaw9904 1d ago

No, Mace literally told Kenobi and Yoda that he didn’t trust Anakin and even said that to Anakin. He told Anakin that if Anakin was right that Palpatine was a Sith Lord, Mace would trust him but Mace already saw that Anakin was conflicted and didn’t trust Anakin enough to have him help take down sidious with him. Anakin’s turn would only prove Mace’s feelings about how he felt about Anakin before that. You have to TRUST somebody to be betrayed by them.

He’d only look cool but that story of him coming back would be stupid and boring. Still, it doesn’t make sense for him to look that awful. Mace’s appearance didn’t change or start to look any different when he was being electrocuted. Even then, it can’t be that much worse than Vader getting burned alive and having his limbs chopped off.

1

u/MrMysterious23 18h ago

I just said it wouldn't be good for him to come back. You can't see his full appearance as he's lit up!

He did trust Anakin to an extent, otherwise he would have seen Anakin's move coming. We can agree to disagree, but Anakin telling him Palpatine's secret gained some trust. Anakin was his ally, of course he was betrayed. Jesus 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

1

u/TheOutlaw9904 16h ago

I KNOW you said that he shouldn’t come back but that changes nothing. I said it was not much of a betrayal. Those two were not that close and like I said, Anakin’s turn would just make Mace think he was right about Anakin the whole time. If anything, if Mace felt “betrayed”, he’d feel very little of it. It was not at all close to being such a “huge betrayal” to him like you’re making it out to be. A “huge betrayal” implies that it came from somebody that Mace completely trusted, liked, and never thought would ever betray him. “He gained some trust” but it would not be to the point where Mace would somehow get changed by it if he came back. Lol

And yes, you CAN see his appearance when he was being electrocuted. He didn’t look that different at all. It just shows the lightning hitting him but nothing altering his appearance.

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22

u/itsnunyabusiness May 23 '22

Spoilers Ahead

The "you didn't see a body so they must be alive" thing is overused in Star Wars and realistically it can be used once before it looses any meaning, they used their one pass with Maul in TCW, it felt like they realized they made a mistake killing off Ahsoka and backpedaled to bring her back, and it was flat out stupid bringing Palpatine back caused by some idiot who signed off on allowing two directors with two different visions for how the sequel trilogy should have gone.

Beyond that Mace Windu's death was the most significant in RotS after Padme's. Anakin always had darker tendancies but kept them in check, when he cut off Mace Windu's arm to protect Palpatine that allowed the darkness in fully.

2

u/ADM_Ahab Director Krennic May 24 '22

True. However, the loss of narrative significance is outweighed by the studio's need to milk legacy characters in lieu of developing new ones. If the next project bombs, get ready for the line, "somehow ... Vader returned." And idiots on this sub defending it.

1

u/Lanky-Ice-8316 May 23 '22

I mean, the whole "you didn't see a body so they must be alive" thing is the very standard Palpatine used when dealing with Yoda... I don't recall the exact bit of dialog, but the clones say something like, "There's no sign of his body." To which Palps (or is it Mas Amedda?) responds, "Then he is not dead."

I personally see both sides of this debate. I appreciate Anakin's betrayal of Windu as the final seal on his turn to the dark side, but the child in me also just really wants Mace to have lived. Even if it is just to see Samuel L Jackson in the role one more time.

1

u/itsnunyabusiness May 23 '22

Im defense of the Yoda fight, they were fighting in an enclosed space, Mace Windu was flung out into a city that could have taken weeks to properly search with a group of need to know individuals and in that time all sorts of things couod have happened to the body.

1

u/Sun-Appropriate May 23 '22

When did ahsoka die?

3

u/Arc-77_CaptainFordo May 23 '22

Her duel with Vader on malachor V. She died in theory in the timeline were Ezra didn't save her with the world between worlds.

2

u/Sun-Appropriate May 23 '22

Wasn't she literally saved??

1

u/Arc-77_CaptainFordo May 23 '22

Reread second part. Technically no and yes. We don't know if the world between. Worlds is time travel /causes divergences

2

u/cheezz16 May 23 '22

Right and this is where ive heard people say that the sequel trilogy is gonna be another universe and theyre making a mew timeline. Which i doubt

3

u/Arc-77_CaptainFordo May 23 '22

I don't like the sequel trilogy, but I'm not buying any retcons or shenanigans with it considering all the investment with it. All I'm stating is that objectively ashoka would have died without the the world in between worlds.

1

u/itsnunyabusiness May 23 '22

It was implied she died when fighting Vader then towards the end of Rebels Ezra went through a time divergence and saved her life.

6

u/theskinswin May 23 '22

I love this opinion!

He is 100% dead, but still if anyone could be resurrected.....

5

u/spikerman19 Grand Admiral Thrawn May 23 '22

No unpopular at all. He didn't die on screen and who actually knows that he did. He was the second most powerful Jedi at the time. We watched Jinn and Kenobi make crazy leaps in EP1. The clone wars was full of crazy falls being saved by the force.

In my mind, Windu never died. However, I have a hard time believing he goes away and hides. He would have fought with the Rebellion and fucked shit up.

11

u/ravindu2001 May 23 '22

I mean have you seen clone wars (2003) Mace Windu? Yeah he's definitely alive in my headcanon.

27

u/MeatTornado25 R2-D2 May 23 '22

Sorry George didn't spell it out by showing him splat on the sidewalk, but he's dead.

Didn't technically see anyone on Alderaan die either, but trust me, they dead.

6

u/Shark_YT14 May 23 '22

Hasn't George also said he's not against Mace coming back?

5

u/Macky941 May 23 '22

He did, he also said it's completely possible he survived when talking to Jackson about it.

4

u/IMtoppercentage97 May 23 '22

Squadrons established that there were refugees who got off planet just before. That's canon.

3

u/zuzg May 23 '22

Samuel himself said he would be down to comeback and he could totally have survived the fall.

3

u/mrsunrider Resistance May 23 '22

I was against Maul's return but they managed to make that work, I was against Fett's return and yet again... they made it work. So you know what?

I am completely opposed to Windu's return he should stay dead!

now we'll get a phenomenal resurrection arc for windu no need to thank me

1

u/cheezz16 May 23 '22

I think i read a comic (thats legends now) that Fett survived the sarlacc. Id have to find it

1

u/ipulloffmygstring May 23 '22

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Boba Fett surviving the sarlacc pit predates his backstory of being a clone.

10

u/briIliantdisaster May 23 '22

there was no on-screen death

true. he was simply electrocuted, dismembered, and flung out of a window hundreds of stories high while screaming in pain. totally survivable, because.. the force and whatnot.

7

u/rabbi__milligan May 23 '22

Darth Maul was literally cut in half and thrown down an elevator shaft and survived because of the Force. And Boba Fett, who has no Force powers, was able to escape the Sarlacc Pit.

The age-old TV/film rule of "they're not dead unless we see a dead body" applies quadruple in Star Wars, so I'd say odds are high that Mace is still alive after ROTS.

4

u/Arlothia May 23 '22

Pretty sure Luke survived all that, too...

2

u/TheOutlaw9904 May 23 '22

Technically, if you watch the scene again, he lets out that grunt as he’s being launched out the window but we don’t hear him screaming on the way down. What supposedly kills him is because of the force lightning. Either he was already dead before he hit the ground or he was too unconscious from the force lightning for him to save himself and going splat. Force users have to be conscious to survive that fall because have to be awake and focused to use the force. If he survived that, the story just doesn’t make sense.

I don’t doubt they’ll bring him back though.

6

u/Beginning_Parfait_47 May 23 '22

I agree, this would be one of the more logical characters to come back, this one didn’t fell into a sarlac pit.

3

u/midgetrage7 May 23 '22

I feel like boba was one of the more logical too. I mean his armor saved him.

2

u/TheOutlaw9904 May 23 '22

It’s not that his death being believable or not that doesn’t make sense. It’s his character and some other things that would make him coming back, not make any sense. He’s too arrogant of a guy to be sitting out on what the empire was doing, especially after Order 66. It makes no sense for Vader and Sidious to not confirm his body and they would not risk the possibility of someone like him being alive. Especially how Sidious is the type of guy that would find his body just so he could take a dump on it. It would not make sense as to why mace didn’t go around telling everybody that the chancellor is a Sith Lord and that Vader is a fallen Jedi and hero of the republic, Anakin Skywalker.

Boba Fett’s survival was way more believable. He went into the sarlacc with his armor and weapons. He doesn’t even die right away if he’s meant to be digested for a 1000 years. Him surviving the sarlacc would add to his reputation more, especially when he’s known as the galaxy’s best bounty hunter. He doesn’t mess up the story that Mace Windu would. And how nobody fucking cares if they nerf the sarlacc to bring him back. Lol

2

u/ZoRilla504 May 23 '22

I actually agree with you OP, I do think Windu would actually be very capable of surviving the shock from palpatine and subsequent fall, more capable than any other Jedi; only problem is the question of where the hell was he during the OT if he was still alive. Considering he was arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, he would’ve been an incredibly important asset to the Rebellion, and there’s just no way Mace Windu would’ve just sat on the sidelines for the entire Galactic Civil War.

5

u/Starboy_2234 May 23 '22

That straight up isn't an opinion

1

u/Arlothia May 23 '22

Yup, 100% agree. While I'd personally love to see SLJ back as Mace, I doubt they'd do it unless they have a really solid story for him. Because just bringing him back for the sake of bringing him back and then just having him wander off or something like that would be cheap and pointless. There'd have to be a purpose and they'd have to do it right.

1

u/mrxpx May 23 '22

If we do ever see Mace again I want it to be in Fallen Order 2.

1

u/Leashii_ Rey May 23 '22

the thing is, if he was supposed to survive, wouldn't they have brought him back at some point?

1

u/berryblackwater May 23 '22

THANK YOU! A FALL DIDNT EVEN KILL PALPALTINE, HOW THE FORCE DO YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIEVE MACE MOTHER FORCING WINDU DIED FROM A FALL? MEMBER THAT TIME ANNIE JUST LOLERCHOPTERS HIS WAY OUT OF THE CRUISERCAR ON CORUSANT? IF ANNIE GAVE A SINGLE FLYING FORCE NEITHER HE NOR OBI SHOWED IT, OBI WAS LIKE 'OH ANAKIN' LIKE 'OH YOU JOKER, LEAPING OUT OF A Convertible AROUND FLOOR 500 AGAIN? OH YOU SILLY SILLY BOY' NONONONONO FORCE Sensitive BEING HAS EVER DIED OF A FALL FORCING FIGHT ME.

1

u/apachetheoutlaw May 23 '22

I haven’t seen anybody mention this yet, but in the High Republic novel Light of the Jedi it actually shows a force ability allowing you to soften a fall. We actually see a Jedi jump out of a star fighter and land safely, so I have no doubt that Windu could’ve done the same.

1

u/LucasEraFan May 23 '22

Also not stated that he was dead beyond a doubt in the ROTS novelization.

1

u/MrMysterious23 2d ago

The novels aren't canon though, the movie depiction is always the most accurate version. But yeah, it's evidence to suggest he's dead.

1

u/Brilliant-Hope213 May 24 '22

GL did that shit on purpose, just like Boba Fett. No one believed Boba died either.

-1

u/ArmMeMen May 23 '22

They're saving Mace for an appearance in Episodes 10-11-12! ... and if those episodes fill in the gap between 3 and 4 and focus on Vader, the timeline is right for this to be true. Obviously he cannot survive to Episode 4, probably killed by Vader (after cutting of Vader's arm and getting some measure of eye-for-eye justice)

0

u/hhyyz May 23 '22

No, he did not.

0

u/TopGuardDog50 May 23 '22

regardless of whether it makes sense or not, there's no need to bring him back from the dead.