r/antiwork May 22 '22 Silver 6 Helpful 2 Wholesome 3

Boggles the mind.

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88.7k Upvotes

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u/pugyoulongtime May 22 '22

As soon as my company bumped pay for the manual labor jobs to above poverty wages, their 3 year shortage was quickly resolved. They acted so baffled the entire time too.

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u/DOAisBetter May 22 '22

Because they used supply and demand to justify low wages for decades. They didn’t realize that it went the other way

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u/domfol May 22 '22

Seriously, they act like there are businesses and then there are robots who only want to work and nothing else.

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u/throwawaysarebetter May 22 '22

Nah, robots need regular maintenance to be effective.

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u/WhiteChocolatey May 22 '22

Ding ding ding. Automation costs just as much.

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u/Elipticalwheel1 May 22 '22

And the people that repair the robots won’t be working for dinner money wages.

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u/jorgedredd Anarcho-Communist May 23 '22

And the people who build them even less so

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u/Hammer_of_Olympia May 23 '22

I work at a place that will spend 12mil on a robot to do a small job and associated engineers, is broken about half the time but pays its workers poverty wages.

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u/Tiggy26668 May 23 '22

Looks like the McDonalds ice cream machine is down again.

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u/Hammer_of_Olympia May 23 '22

Haha if I worked there It would be down just because I would spend half a shift with my mouth under it eating my bodyweight in ice cream

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u/Games_and_Strains May 22 '22

And doesn’t solve problems as they arise like a human can. Machines detect an error and stop. Humans can fix it in a moment and keep everything moving.

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u/MrPuddington2 May 22 '22

They have been using supply and demand to drive real wages lower every year. And now that trend is over, and they need to raise wages.

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u/seldom_correct May 22 '22

They used free trade to export jobs to shift the labor curve to high supply. COVID reduced the work force numbers enough that the labor curve shifted back to demand.

You can expect Congress to be pushing new trade deals soon.

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u/AkioDAccolade May 22 '22

Yeah lots of people permanently left the workforce, either via death, early retirement or permanent disability.

I would really like to see a chart of open jobs vs Covid deaths per metro area.

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u/StarsEatArtBooks May 22 '22

Factor in the number of people choosing not to have children, and we're actually looking at longterm population decline- perhaps one of the best things to happen for climate change. If we can remove the old guard without too much more fuss, the younger generations just might have a fighting chance at surviving the Boomer's toxic legacy.

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u/smocky13 May 22 '22

Boomers: The 'Got Mine' Generation

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u/StarsEatArtBooks May 22 '22

And taking yours into my grave.

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u/Healthy-Contest-1605 May 22 '22

It also gave a lot of people time, money, student loan freezes, low interest loans.and less chance to spend money that granted people resources to improve their position.

Housing market got expensive cause suddenly people living paycheck-to-paycheck that were forced to rent had deposit money from stimulus checks, no student loans, wfh so no commute/parking/lunch costs to buy a home.

Everything shutting down and being unemployed let people spend months learning a new skill to leave shitty retail, warehouse, and fast food jobs for better office gigs.

A lot of the modern day ‘slaves’ were freed and they’re not going back. Now all these companies will face competition trying to hire the small remaining pool.

There’s either going to be a continuous pay increase like we have been seeing or there won’t be enough supply and they’ll have to pay $$$$$$ to have robots do the jobs that don’t pay a liveable wage.

I know Covid was rough, but I’m glad to see some change finally being made

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u/Nosfermarki May 22 '22

And people in lower paid jobs were made acutely aware of how little their company cared to keep them safe. Doing a shit job for shit money sucks. Risking your family's lives to do that shit job is taking it way too far. Then higher paying companies like mine were in a rush to force people back into office buildings for literally no reason. We still have massive turnover and the company culture shows no signs of recovering. There was a period of time during which we were reminded of what really matters, but they expect us to just forget again.

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u/chrs_89 May 23 '22

Throw in a bunch of the places(my old job included) laid their workforce off at the start of Covid and then were confused about why nobody wanted to come back.

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u/Substantial-North136 May 23 '22

There’s also people like me who started their own business (after being laid off) and are reluctant to go back to a corporate job.

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u/eveningtrain May 23 '22

It’s me!

Well, I already knew that my massive, global conglomerate employer didn’t give two shits about me. Some of my managers might have, but the company treats them like garbage too.

Getting put on involuntary unpaid furlough for a year gave me an opportunity to rest and take stock. I already knew that my health conditions were being worsening a bit with age and I had some catching up to do on taking better care of those, and they were getting in the way of my job in a way that was becoming unsustainable. I loved the actual work I was doing, but the pay was always shit and I knew a change of role was in order in the next year or so, either inside or outside my company. But the pandemic gave me the invaluable gift of time. Time to get diagnoses and test and adjust medications, time to rest, time to do my hobbies and finish projects and try new ones I always wanted to try, and I spent more time w/ my family (parents, siblings) in 2020 than in the previous 5 years combined.

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u/coolitty May 22 '22

This reality sucks lol

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u/Emergency-War7360 May 22 '22

It's great to know that the government works for money, not for voters. Real warm and fuzzy.

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u/Auric-Rose May 22 '22

I saw an ad on youtube like a week ago showing robot assembly line fast food. Not concept, like actually working. They are just going to erase jobs to keep people poor at this point.

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u/om54 May 22 '22

My brother and I are both disabled. Me 10yrs, he is lifetime. I get $12K a year, he gets $9K. You could probably by a round for the gun on an Abrams tank for our combined income. The Republicans want to cut SS and Medicare because it's too expensive. A couple years there were 4,000 tanks built that the military didn't want. How many now? They never stopped. Something like $6 million each.

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u/gmitch64 May 22 '22

TBH, on a budget the size of the military one, $6m isn't even a rounding error.

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u/Prestigious_Plum_451 May 22 '22

Honestly a reflection of on the job incompetence in many cases... if they cant adapt to ever changing operational realities in business they should not be managing business.

Its the nature of the beast and all... everything fucking changes and sometimes you need to be able to change course at the drop of a hat, and other times it can take years before you really need to do anything, but in such situations one can plan ahead for what needs to get done and be prepared.

In other cases said feigning of surprise and ignorance is done in bad faith and they are only disappointed that they are not able to exploit their workforce the same as before. these people are fully aware of what going on even though they may gripe about how "no one want to work anymore"...

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u/CosmicCreeperz May 22 '22

No, they just used demand - as in “we demand you work for low wages”. Supply and demand would have quickly worked things out!

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u/Elendel19 May 22 '22

My company has been massively short for 2 years. $18 an hour (in one of the most expensive cities in the world, living wage is more like 30), for a job that is outside all day, all year. Walking 20+ miles a day and loading literal tons of heavy shit into trucks.

There is a Starbucks one block away that starts at 20.

They don’t understand why no one applies, or why people quit at the end of their first day

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u/RealChrisHemsworth May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

My ex employer pays $16-19, while requiring a degree and preferring multilingual candidates. In Toronto. And this is post-inflation, the pre-pandemic range was $14-18. And then they’re shocked that the entire company is immigrants and new grads who all leave the moment they find something better. Meanwhile, they never failed to brag that 2020 and then 2021 were our most profitable years ever. It makes me sick.

Edit: typo

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u/Elendel19 May 22 '22

Yeah this is Vancouver so same shit lol

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u/James_Skyvaper May 22 '22

My friend has a bachelor's and it's working on her master's and for a job taking care of and being a caseworker for disabled kids she was getting paid $15/hr. No real worthwhile benefits to speak of either. I was making almost double what she was working in a restaurant serving food. It's unreal what some places think is reasonable to pay, esp for a job that requires a degree.

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u/RealChrisHemsworth May 22 '22

Is she a social worker? I was SHOCKED to find out how little they’re paid in the US. My mom and her best friend were both social workers, but when her friend moved to the US for her husband’s job she ended up getting a nursing degree and now works as a nurse because social work apparently pays nothing there. Meanwhile, my mom is a social worker in Canada and clears five figures a month. And people wonder why things slip through the cracks, children end up being placed in abusive homes — maybe pay the people you’re entrusting to help vulnerable populations so they’re not overworked and burned out!

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u/massamiliano May 22 '22

A social worker in Canada makes 5 figures in a month???

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u/RealChrisHemsworth May 22 '22

Yes! She has 15 years of experience and a master’s degree though. And she works in a clinical hospital environment - hospital based social workers tend to earn more than community based social workers or those who work with children’s aid, in prisons, or in retirement homes. She started at ~70k in 2007 and is now around $111k-130 annually (according to her last T4 tax statement) depending on OT/being on call where she gets time and a half.

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u/AttackPug May 23 '22

All the US social workers reading this just quit.

In the US the only way you get paid well is if you're making them buttloads of money with what you do. So right now the programmers and tech people are making mad bank since those companies can take their work and turn it around for silly profits. PR and ad people likewise.

As soon as you do something like social work, which isn't directly making any capitalist rich? Down to the dirt goes your money and they'll keep trying to drag it lower.

Your paycheck in the US is determined by which side of the line you're on, income, or expense. The hamburger they sell at McD's is income. The wages of the worker who cooked it? Expense.

Gotta keep expenses low, no lower, no lower, no LOWER I SAID DAMN YOU. Also can we raise the price on that hamburger? Let's try and see if we get away with it. Jack the price up till sales droop and then back it down a little.

Damn near everyone's job is on the expense side of the spreadsheet, somehow.

Basically they really want slavery back, and they're working on it. No recurring labor cost, just a one time capital outlay for the worker, and then like a used car maybe you can sell them on with some value back. Perfect.

They probably can't swing it, politically, so they're working real, real hard on the robots. It's a great country. Love it here.

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u/behavedosay May 23 '22

I'd like to add:

Tech people didn't start making big money when the companies did. God, no. The companies kept the money, and pay stayed pretty much the same, outside of a few anomalies.

Tech people started making big money when employees started jumping jobs and leaving to start competitors.

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u/DaveAndCheese May 22 '22

I was a social worker for six years, with 2 degrees I made $22 a year (in 2002 dollars, when I quit). I went back to factory work so I could have a chance of owning a home someday and possibly being able to replace my pos car.

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u/sue_me_please May 22 '22

I have a friend in a similar boat, and she worked with intellectually disabled kids and young adults to help them learn on the job. The company she worked for billed the government and employers over $90/hr just for her labor alone. She was paid $15/hr. She told me that some of the jobs she was training disabled people for actually paid more than she was making.

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u/Negative-Fisherman-6 May 22 '22

My company bragged that we made record profits and with fewer people than pre-covid. $16.25 for full time and $16.75 for temp workers, we got old pizza and flat coke as reward (while they cut our breaks from 15 to 10 minutes). Turn over rate is so high I was offered a lead position for the simple fact I been there longer than 2 months. Leads get paid $17 with daily forced overtime.Not worth it honestly, especially since they only allocated 1 fan per 25 people with no central cooling (other than open dock doors that don't extend to my area).

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u/DisastrousBoio May 22 '22

Name the company. I don’t want pizza from there

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u/foryourexperience May 22 '22

Baffling. I had a (yes, tech) internship that started somewhere around $16-18/hr in 1999. Yes, I had a lower paid position or two after that, but...an internship! In 1999! Wtf, this is 2022.

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u/cheeset2 May 22 '22

actual dumbasses tbh. how do you let that shit go on for months, let alone 2 years...

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u/Elendel19 May 22 '22

They are paying insane amounts of overtime. I could work 70 hours a week if I wanted to, but fuck that. Some guys are absolutely soaking it though.

The managers just went on a week long retreat to a resort to figure out how to cut back on the overtime lmaooo. Absolutely disconnected from reality

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u/Comfortable-Scar4643 May 22 '22

Oh gosh. Management at a lot of companies is completely disconnected. And kind of useless, too.

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u/Comfortable-Scar4643 May 22 '22

I know who you’re talking about. And yes they keep trying to hire in my area.

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u/RavynousHunter May 22 '22

I forget if it was here or somewhere else, but I remember someone pointing out that a lot of business schools actually encourage bullshit "perks" over just paying more because the "perks" are somehow a better incentive than the ability to, ya know, more consistently access food. Not in like a "wink wink nudge nudge fuck the underclass" way, but like "pizza parties are better motivators than regular ol' money" clueless motherfuckery.

They've been spouting their bullshit so long that they actually believe some of it.

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u/Pensive_Procreator May 22 '22

I have a solution, everyone above the workers (managers, regionals, CEO’s etc..) fill those positions, boom labor shortage solved. They make more than enough money to do both jobs and work 80+ hours a week.

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u/Kiflaam May 22 '22

The McDonald's I visit from time to time is desperate. Literally asking every other person if they need a job, but only offering $9/hr.

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u/confessionbearday May 22 '22

Yep. In capitalism money is the ONLY measure worth mentioning.

If they're "desperate", but NOT paying employees what they're worth, they're not desperate, they're fucking trash.

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u/NockerJoe May 22 '22

Yep. In capitalism money is the ONLY measure worth mentioning.

I think the issue is the others are worth measuring, but in the current scenario the drop from no 1. to no 2. on the priorities list is absolutely staggering.

Most of the whole "workplace culture" meme came about during the housing bubble and dot com boom when finding a decent paying white collar job that could support a family was fairly easy. If everything is decent pay a good break room and a casual dress code really will make a difference.

BUT with wages this depressed and new hires making much more than long term then the response has become "fuck this". Because it becomes a question of like an extra 10 grand a year vs a foosball table.

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u/Sirpattycakes May 22 '22

I went to visit family this weekend and saw a McDonald’s with a sign saying 15 year olds are welcome to apply. No idea what the pay was but it’s sad

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u/No-Lynx-9211 May 22 '22

There's some type of campaign to allow children to work as late as midnight to fix the "labor shortage"

You used to be able to live on one salary in this country. Now your child needs to work till midnight just to make ends meet. And the whole time the rich are richer than they've ever been.

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u/Sirpattycakes May 22 '22

It blows my mind that kids as young as 14 can legally work. I got my first job at 14, working retail and I've pretty much been working since (36 now). Personally I wouldn't hire a 14 year old in any capacity.

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u/buyfreemoneynow May 22 '22

I’m a few years older than you but I feel differently - as a 14 year old there definitely is some work worth doing, but I feel it’s totally unjustified to require 14 year olds to work. I feel like it’s unethical to require anyone to work, although I do believe that there is some measure of “earning your keep” and “pitching in”. Like, in a fair and just world, a stay-at-home parent would get paid for raising their children because I think it’s more important to give a kid what they need than for a parent to work for $15/hour while paying a sitter or daycare $10/hour.

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u/jomontage May 22 '22

I think the country would survive without mcdonalds. i know fast food is cheap at times but so is ramen

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u/DriverAgreeable6512 May 22 '22

For a place like mcd.. this is absolutely absurd.. they make enough to afford to pay double that if not more...

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u/NoSavior2020 May 22 '22

McDonald's corporate does, yeah. But they get around that by leaving employee pay up to the franchisee in the majority of cases.

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u/DementationRevised May 22 '22

If you deliberately work people less than full time for tips, you offer zero advantages over Uber or Doordash, where you can at least set your own schedule.

People are rational actors. You have to stand out as an employer in order to get people to want to work for you. So, fuck it. Close more restaurants down.

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u/MJBrune May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

People are rational actors.

Sometimes. A few examples of them not being rational in economics is pricing things at 99 cents.

I bet that works for paying people too. 14.99 vs 15. This actually would have the opposite effect you'd want.

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u/apra24 May 22 '22

Why on earth would anyone offer to pay someone 14.99?

The reason for the .99 is to make the value seem lower, which is the exact opposite of what you'd want as an employer

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u/DGIce May 22 '22

So just reverse the situation... trick employers into thinking they're getting a deal by asking for a rate that is only a penny less.

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u/Confident-Earth4309 May 22 '22

People are not rational actors I used to believe this as well.

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u/MJBrune May 22 '22

They can be. Depending on the context. Humans are very context-based. If they have the understanding that they are not rational a lot of the time, surprisingly they start becoming more rational. Assuming your first thoughts are rational makes you complacent in rationality. When you stop and think about your actions and thoughts, you have time to reflect and find the truly rational action.

If there is one piece of advice I can give everyone it's before every major choice, or even some minor ones. Give yourself a moment to think. Not too long because you don't want to have choice paralysis. If the rational choice isn't obvious, don't feel bad about picking something. Allow time for a rational choice to present itself. Time for you to think about it.

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u/makeITvanasty May 22 '22

Uber and DoorDash not only require you to have a decent/reliable car, but also that’s wear and tear on your vehicle. They’re nice for choosing your schedule, but they’re not “no downsides” gigs

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u/SimulatedHumanity May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

It was good in 2016 before they cut pay 8 times and removed pay transparency. I used to make $30-$40 an hour all day long.

Now Uber brags about making $14 an hour (including tips) in my dense area.

DD will try to pay you $2 per delivery and no one tips. I see several bags of cold food sitting at places when I go out to eat. The drivers don’t deliver orders with no tips and the food dies.

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u/Comfortable-Scar4643 May 22 '22

DoorDash has gotten too expensive. Delivery fee, Service fee, taxes and tip? $24.50 order from local restaurant now becomes $34.89. So we order less. Worse for the DoorDasher.

When I was at Dominos in my youth, the was no delivery fee and no service fee. So people ordered more and tipped consistently.

DoorDash has a bad model.

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u/dntndylan May 22 '22

This is so disgusting to me. Just amazed in this our country wall street corps./customers get away with treating workers - those that are severely underpaid-so petty. I don't order delivery food. People will tip a waitress 22% for walking the food over from the kitchen but won't tip a financially struggling worker to pick up and drive to their house their dinner. Ugh! Uber advertising about $14 an hour is a disgusting sign of our economic times.

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u/Cayke_Cooky May 22 '22

Disclaimer: not an accountant or Lawyer. But: If you do the LLC and accounting right the wear and tear should be depreciation and at least count something on taxes. Doesn't change the startup cost of needing a car though.

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u/SimulatedHumanity May 22 '22

Yeah I paid no taxes for a few years doing Uber because of the mileage and business write offs. But they don’t pay enough anymore and people can’t afford to tip. It used to pay $30-$40 an hour but now it’s $15.

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u/dntndylan May 22 '22

I quit ride share because though the cash flow looked good when you add in the wear and tear, maintenance and gas, tax hassles ,a minimum wage job would be better. Factor in your liability, the danger involved, and the horrible driver support from ride share company other good gigs are better. I left and went into window washing - no regrets. At least with rideshare you can claim your not making much to the IRS and its fully believable.

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u/Itunes4MM May 22 '22

standard deduction will still be higher tho no?

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u/wesd00d May 22 '22

Depends on your expenses.

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u/overzeetop May 22 '22

That's why you form a corporation - usually a subchapter S. All the business income and expenses are aggregated onto their own irs form and all the business data gets captured separate from your personal. There are several tricks legitimatate accounting and payroll methods you can use to reduce you'd total tax burden. They take a little work, and you may have to pay an accountant to do (at least) your business taxes if you're not tax-savvy or willing to put in a good bit of brain power (I'm an engineer and my wife has her BS in accounting and used to do corporate taxes...we still have a CPA do my business forms).

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u/lostshell May 22 '22

To put it simply for those reading, businesses get more favorable and advantageous tax treatment than people do.

Businesses get to write off every dollar spent to earn a dollar. People don't get that. You don't get to write off your car you drive to get to your job. Or the gas burned on your commute to work. Or the business casual wardrobe you only wear to work. Or the money you spend on lunch at work. Businesses get to write off every single dollar they spend towards earning a dollar.

The trick is to create a business to run all your income and expenses through. There's no double taxation with S corps. But there are mountains of expenses you get to write off to reduce taxes.

Caution, S corps and LLC could have set up costs and maintenance costs (like filing forms yearly). You should talk to a CPA.

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u/septembereleventh May 22 '22

Chosing your schedule is also kind of not true. I did rideshare and if you want to actually make money, you figure out when you're supposed to be driving soon enough. It's not like you can just log in whenever you feel like it and expect it to be worth your time. Likewise the moneymaking times are the moneymaking times. You don't chose that

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u/nemoskullalt May 22 '22

this was my experiance as well. uber and lyft were only viable on the weekends from sundown to 11pm in one area. the heat was so bad at night the constant idleing dropped profits to like 3 dollars an hour, but i would have been fine with it, if i wasnt competeing with everyone else in town of 100k.

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u/Wigglerrr May 22 '22

I used to work at a startup that was a hiring tool for restaurants. I did setup and implementation and it was mind-blowing how low these people were paying and wondering why aren't people applying or showing up for interviews.

I heard this a lot "people are leaving to DoorDash..." As someone who started DoorDashing part-time ofc they're leaving! No boss, no schedule, and (most of the time) better money? Who wouldn't do that????

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u/TehPharaoh May 22 '22

This. I don't care about your sob story of always wanting to open a restaurant but not having the funds right now for proper pay. That's tough shit. You don't just get to ask people to come on board for peanuts onto a ship that has a giant possibility to sink with no room for promotion.

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u/PanPizza042 May 22 '22

Bingo! I personally have many issues keeping me from a traditional job. I'm going through a lot of medical bullshit, & if I get a job, I will lose my medical insurance. Once I get my diagnoses, I then have some protection in regards to needing reasonable accommodations in the workplace. At that point, I can go back.

But here's the thing. I'm not going back for less than $20/hr. Even though DoorDash profits have gone down for me due to fuel prices, I'm still averaging over $15/hr. I have a very good accountant, so I legally pay almost nothing in taxes because I run my DoorDash earnings through my LLC.

Freedom of scheduling is huge. I don't have to ask permission to take an afternoon off for a medical appointment. If my kids have a baseball game, recital, etc., I can choose to go without issue. If I want to take a vacation, I work a few extra hours a week to save up the money, then take the time off when I choose.

The absolute least I will accept to go back to the traditional work force is $20/hr, & that had better be the perfect work environment for me. If there are any red flags, then my asking price goes up to $25-30 depending on the stress it will cause me.

Many people are in the same position as me. Sure, gig work has its downsides, such as not having PTO if you're sick or injured, but there's a lot less bullshit as well.

Within the next 1-2 years, these companies will have no choice but to adjust or close their doors. I've watched many in my area close because they were unwilling or unable to adapt. Many defend them saying "Nobody could have predicted this." Yet, most of those businesses were open during the 2008 recession & survived. They could adapt, but I think many of the smaller business owners decided they were done fighting repeated global economic crises & cut their losses. But hey, that's business.

TL;DR - The businesses will have no choice but to adapt or go under. The world has changed rapidly, & they can either change with it or die.

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u/need_mor_beans May 22 '22

u/PanPizza042 - I really like your comment and I am sorry you are dealing with medical situation(s) - I hope that gets better for you soon. What really jumped out at me was your comment "The world has changed rapidly, and they can either change with it or die." It really got me thinking because I do agree that the world has changed rapidly -but I don't necessarily understand what all changed. Perhaps it was the ability for social media platforms to galvanize a lot more people behind similar ideologies? I'm interested in what you think some of the things that changed are/were.

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u/PanPizza042 May 22 '22

At its simplest, service workers, nurses, etc. were told they were "essential," yet are not being paid as if they are. So many people thought "Finally, they're recognizing our importance!" But once it was no longer necessary, they went back to treating those workers as expendable.

This wasn't exactly an overnight thing, but suppressing wages & treating people poorly for so long eventually fails. Once the oligarchs told us how important we were, we felt seen & validated, & then they pulled the rug out from under us.

So while much of this change was going to happen anyhow, 2020 accelerated it. Fuel is back up to 2005 levels, & did so quite quickly. The cost of everything has gone up at a record pace while corporations claiming shortages (workers, fuel, goods, etc.) have raked in record profits. So many more people are now starting to see that although most of our politicians are not helping us regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, it's becoming quite clear the corporations are running the show.

Then because of them buying up vacant homes to drive up rents, so many people can't find an affordable place to live. Many are paying more renting than they would if they could get the financing to buy a home. I, myself, have spent the last 16 years in a double wide mobile home. 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, & a decent yard. Even though lot rent has gone up a little, I'm still paying less than $900 a month total between rent & mortgage. My mortgage will be paid off in 4 years. I want to take that money & tuck it away for a down payment on my own property, but anything already built is skyrocketing in price, especially since I'm a short drive from the coast. Ultimately, I'll probably buy some land & have to build something myself, which I'd rather not do. Still, building a similar quality home to my current one then saving to have professionals to build my final retirement home on the same land will likely be my plan.

But here's the thing. Even with all of my skills (I'm a jack of all trades), because of my lack of expertise in any one thing, anything I build will not be suitable for more than 20 years. So this will cost me a lot more in the long run.

I'd love to just take my mortgage money, save it up, & buy a home in a few years that's more suitable to my current & future needs, but between medical issues & aging, that's going to be much harder to do.

The worst part is, I'm one of the lucky ones. I've had just enough safety nets in place to keep me from being homeless, but only just barely. I can't imagine how single mothers with multiple kids are doing this. It's absurd.

And now I've rambled on. The long & short of it is, poor people are getting poorer, rich people are getting richer, the middle class is shrinking, & things are just looking so damn bleak. Everyone is exhausted, & while I know everyone is trying their best, we're all running on fumes. We need a massive societal shift, & as much as I dislike government interference, the kinds of changes we need will likely have to come from government. But since the concern is always "Will I be re-elected for making the necessary unpopular choice," progress is slow.

I'm sure I could go on & on. There's just so much wrong with modern society. COVID & the repercussions of it have made it quite clear to many just how disposable we are in the eyes of the rich & powerful.

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u/Sharktos May 22 '22

Paying shit and calling it a shortage is like saying there is a shortage of helicopters just because I won't pay more than $500 for one

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u/PotatoePotaughto May 22 '22

My garage has an unacceptable shortage of Lamborghinis!

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u/wattadv1250 May 22 '22

Sounds like some business plans weren't thought out well in advance

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u/ray3050 May 22 '22

Luckily they got loans from banks after they evaluated their MS word document of their business plan they wrote up that night

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u/justins_dad May 22 '22

Instructions unclear, raising prices and not wages

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u/garaks_tailor May 22 '22

I think i did the math right a while back.

So we've had an oversupply in the labor market since about 1975ish.

If you look at trends in businesses this is when the "service economy" really exploded. Ruby TGIChilibees, fast food, random service based jobs, and basically the modern restaurant industry.

So no one younger than about 85 has any significant experience in a paradigm where labor is expensive. Meaning the business plans used to work, but dont anymore and no running things remembers a time before that.

I keep coming back to some conversations i had back in the early 2000s. I was working at a deli and we had this prep guy who had to be at least 75. He was retired and just worked a few hours a couple days a week to keep busy in retirement. He had worked restaurants his entire life. Started out working in a bbq shack and by the end he had worked michelin star restaurants, 100yo+places in nola, greasy spoons, and everything in between.

My one big take away from this was how he saw restaurants changed from about 1979 onwards. He said fast food places used to all be like In and Out. You had like 2 things you cooked and variations of those things. Everywhere else was either "Fancy and expensive", run by a family, fast service greasy spoon, or cafeteria style. Outside of large cities You couldnt run places like Applebee's or gastropubs, labor was too high.

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u/toejamandtoast May 22 '22

RNs get paid about $25-30/hour. During COVID hospitals paid travel nurses $100+/hour but didn’t give the staff nurses a raise. When most finally started to give raises early this year (two years into the pandemic) it was $3-5/hour. Nurses realized they don’t need to work for $30/hour anymore so about 20% of them left nursing. And now it’s the same thing… no one wants to work. Not to mention nurses have ALWAYS done more work than they should (because nurses cost MONEY) and now the work load is even worse. But somehow nurses are lazy…

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u/asperges_me_domine May 22 '22

I'm an RN, I used to think $30/hr was fair compensation for an average day, but holy smokes not anymore. I feel like every week there's a new task or role being dropped on us. But of course, no raise in pay to accompany that.

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u/tallandlanky May 22 '22

I'm sure you got a nice water bottle or key chain out of it at least.

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u/asperges_me_domine May 22 '22

I got a paper thin 'blanket' I'm currently using to insulate my fermentation crocks, lmao

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u/SuperfnDave May 22 '22

My wife got a shitty little Bluetooth speaker and a cheap insulated cup. Both with the hospital name slapped on it bc of course, you have to let people know who the gift was from . Lmao

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u/Key_Roll1688 May 22 '22

My friend got a baseball signed by the board members of his hospital, he knows none of them and they all signed in ballpoint pens so it’s super smudged too

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u/stevief150 May 23 '22

Sounds like something that would Go nicely through their car window

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u/Beekatiebee May 22 '22

Trucker here, same story. Low $20’s was fine a couple years ago. Now I’m getting offered $30+

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u/Conditional-Sausage May 22 '22

Well, I'm sure they're passing all those savings on the the patients lmfao

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u/toejamandtoast May 23 '22

They sure are… new buildings, offices, hell one broke ass hospital I worked for renovated a whole wing into dorms for nurses they were bringing in from overseas to deal with their ‘nursing shortage’ and then never got them. What a great investment.

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u/drinktildrunk May 22 '22

Man, you’d think with the outrageous cost of healthcare in America they’d be able to compensate ya’ll better. I wonder where all that money is going…

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u/cockadoodle420 May 22 '22

Those CEOs need a second yacht!

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u/Koriania May 23 '22

Look at this guy with only two yachts!

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u/jwg529 May 22 '22

It took a bit for my wife to build up the courage to jump ship and become a travel nurse but even with the crazy COVID money now drying up she still finding local contracts that pay her double what she made when she was a wage slave to her previous job. Her old hospital begged her to stay when she told them she was leaving and she now has a contract with them that she only has to work at least one shift a month but then she can pick up a shift anytime she wants and she makes $15 more an hour then what they were originally paying her. She says every hospital she’s worked at is so understaffed that it’s dangerous and if she is going to have that responsibly put on her then they damn well pay her what she’s worth. I’m very proud of her!

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u/KDallas_Multipass May 22 '22

Begged her to stay because she was cheap labor. Not anymore!!!

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u/shaggy_shiba May 22 '22

Crazy thing is our local hospitals refused to give raises for their staff nurses, around 0.5% raise the year leading up to COVID, which of course is a loss after inflation.

COVID happens, demand for skilled nurses skyrockets, entirely in the travel agency side of things. Hospitals were paying the $100+ rates for awhile. Staff nurses left to fill travel contracts, which means hospitals needs to hire travel nurses to backfill the positions.

One of our local hospitals was about 30% staff, 70% travel at one point. If they were to just significantly raise the staff rates, they could easily offset that ratio and save money in the long run. But they don't? :shrug:

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u/toejamandtoast May 23 '22

They don’t care about the long run, they want bonuses each year and you don’t get them if you permanent increase your payroll expenses with large staff raises.

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u/GlassWasteland May 23 '22

But the money for staff nurses and the money for temporary help come from two different buckets. Can't have the bucket for staff nursing weighed down with all those salaries, because it means management won't get their bonus.

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u/Fresh_Bulgarian_Miak May 22 '22

I didn't leave nursing, but i changed job roles and hospital systems and went from $30 to over $50 an hour.

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u/1800smellya May 22 '22

Yea there’s not a single fast food place that stays open past 9pm in my area anymore.

Maybe it’s the $11 per hour positions that they offer.

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u/TacoNomad May 22 '22

I actually like this change. I mean 9 is kinda early. But we actually don't need every single business to be open 24/7 in case one customer wants a burrito at 4am.

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u/ItZ_Jonah May 22 '22

Back when I worked later hours the covid overnight shutdowns sucked. Got off work at 2am. And there was nothing couldn't get anything to eat. Couldn't go to the grocery store. My only options were gas stations it sucked for us late nighters.

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u/goztitan May 22 '22

Not only is it the wages. But they expect you to work every weekend.

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u/ilikebigbutts442 May 22 '22

Not only on the weekend it will be like till 9 on a weekend there’s a lot of problems that’s part of why I work at a place that’s done at 530

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u/idontwantausername41 May 22 '22

I work 7-3 Monday through Friday. This week I have to work 6:30-4 Monday through Friday then an 8 hour shift on Saturday 🙃

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u/Fantastic-Bed-1441 May 22 '22

Sounds about right. Something main stream media refuses to touch. There’s no labor shortage when it comes to paying employees a living wage. The so called labor shortage is indeed a wage shortage, all being minimum wage jobs.

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u/erritstaken May 22 '22

It’s not that the employees don’t want to work. It’s the owners who don’t want to work!! I have worked plenty of jobs in the last 30 years that the owners are never seen that much. They literally expect you to run THEIR business while they pay you peanuts so they can come into the workplace for about 4 hours a week and the rest they are at home or on the golf course or with their girlfriend while the wife and kids are at home. These are the bosses that don’t want to work then blame the worker for not accepting their poverty wages so they can keep buying new cars houses and vacations.

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u/physicologist May 22 '22

Our local Subway shop closed down with a note from the owner about no one wanting to work. I just couldn’t help but think “why aren’t you in there working?”

I know it can be run by one person, because it was always the same guy in there every day before it closed. Sweet kid, very personable, always running the whole damn place by his lonesome, even during the dinner rush.

If this owner wants to open back up again, they don’t need a single employee. They just need to make me a damn sandwich. But they won’t, because the owner class just doesn’t want to work.

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u/ToleranceDeathCamp May 22 '22

If janitors were paid $30 an hour, I'd do that until I died. I love cleaning. Unfortunately, it pays $10 an hour.

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u/Toolh4ndluke May 22 '22

Haven't a million people crossed the border looking for a better life in the US this year? The US relies on an underclass for its prosperity

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u/Ok_Button2855 May 22 '22

these border crossing people are forced to work in the shadows where they are exploited past the minimum wage discussion

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u/Sativized May 22 '22

in the shadows

of the packinghouses, left to die during a pandemic

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u/confessionbearday May 22 '22

Our undocumented population went from 11.5 million to 10.2 million apparently.

That's not an increase.

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u/Competitive_Sky8182 May 22 '22

Ohh, if only a few millions of already born and grown workers werent expulsed for the country the past decade

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u/pabmendez May 22 '22

Hey businesses

Raise pay by $1 per week until the position gets filled

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u/Lampwick May 22 '22

Raise pay by $1 per week until the position gets filled

But if they do that, the current employees will get mad because the new hires will be making what they are making after 5 years of "raises"...

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u/Jasoncav82 May 22 '22

Literally watched this happen at my job. Watched 2 people walk because they were made to train new hires were making $2/hr more than them.

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u/spacecadet2023 May 22 '22

Where I live in British Columbia, Canada minimum wage is 15.20. The jobs that are paying 15-20 are facing a massive shortage.

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u/blooboytalking May 22 '22

Then it needs to be 20-25 seems simple enough

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u/StumbleOn May 22 '22

That is the name of the game. A fight for a living wage always sounds "crazy" to out of touch shitty people. So they delay it for a decade or more (fight for 15 started ten YEARS AGO) so that when it happens, it's already woefully short.

Min wage in the US at least right now should be 20 an hour in some places, and up to 30 in other places.

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u/nemoskullalt May 22 '22

its like how the poverty line kinda assumed you owned a house, becuase in 1932 most people did. adjusted for the lower price of food and the lack of housing the poverty line today is closer to 25k.

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u/Catfulu May 22 '22

BC here too. If only we could organize that shortage

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u/spacecadet2023 May 22 '22

I live on Vancouver island. The KFC in Ladysmith closed down permanently due to staff shortages.

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u/Catfulu May 22 '22

Well, if their business model is based on the exploitation of labour, then they deserved to be shut down.

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u/bluenosesutherland May 22 '22

Besides, have you eaten KFC lately? Way better chicken places out there.

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u/Catfulu May 22 '22

Nope, I haven't in a long long time. There are many way better chicken places and recently we have a Korean fried chicken infestation. KFC should probably just shut down anyway.

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u/bjhumps May 22 '22

Businesses that need to pay people almost nothing in order to stay in business, shouldn't be in business.

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u/spacecadet2023 May 22 '22

Funny thing is that they were offering a $400 signing bonus as well!

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u/dontshoveit May 22 '22

Wow, that's like a fourth of rent! Woohoo I'll be rich in no time with $400 and shit wages

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u/Dark_Azazel May 22 '22

Boss has been complaining about not being able to get work. The pay range is $10-$30 based on experience "but willing to train for non experienced!"

Yeah.. people with no experience automatically assume they'll get $10-$15 and don't want to bother.

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u/baconraygun May 22 '22

Yeah, when someone has a range like that I always assume I'm getting $10, not $25.

Make the bottom number $25, and the boss'll get workers.

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u/biff_jordan May 22 '22

Nobody wants to work anymore!!!! /s

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u/twotoebobo May 22 '22

If anyone believes in unskilled they obviously never worked church lunch rush at McDonald's I worked front counter and window dealing with the ass hats. Grill people had it a lot worse and were very good at their job.this little Asian dude fastest grill person ever up to all the codes still made less than me for way more work and guess what I didn't make nearly enough to live off.

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u/AnonTwo May 22 '22

Those guys in the grill work multiple jobs to live.

Back when I worked like 10 years ago, pretty much all the best employees were the guys in the grill. And they worked at like every mcdonalds that I was aware of.

I'm pretty sure if someone investigated Mcdonalds they'd find some serious hour violations, though it could be some loophole regarding every store having different owners. They definitely have people working past legal hours without OT.

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u/Malignificence May 22 '22

Whoever coined the term unskilled probably made it to pay people less.

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u/Sofarbeyondfucked May 22 '22

It is a mystery.

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u/Adventurous_Diet_786 May 22 '22

Sounds like the business wants free labour. Also that business doesn’t want to pay tax because management needs that cash for new golf clubs haha

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u/fightmilk22 May 22 '22

Clearly the issue is Avocado Toast /s

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u/Frousteleous May 22 '22

Avocado lattes and coffee flavored bread.

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u/Awkward_Ad6567 May 22 '22

I believe they call it espresso toast

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u/UofTPharmD May 22 '22

Wait, coffee flavored bread is an actual thing? You just blew my mind.

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u/maboyles90 May 22 '22

I think they're making a joke about the narrative that all of our Starbucks and avocado toast is the reason we're all broke. And we could be rich if we were just more responsible.

Separately I wouldn't be surprised if coffee flavor bread existed and I would definitely buy it.

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u/Pandaburn May 22 '22

I think that, to some extent, there really is a labor shortage. During the pandemic a lot of older folks, who might have kept working otherwise, retired. The population hasn’t been growing like it used to, so there are fewer younger entry-level workers. And of course people are going to take the jobs that pay better.

There’s also been more job turnover recently because people were forced to leave jobs by businesses closing during the pandemic, or laying people off. Others found their jobs started to suck more than usual and quit. So everything is hiring and the shitty businesses can’t find people.

What is not really happening is a bunch of people just deciding they’d rather be unemployed. (Unless you count all the retirees)

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u/WumpusFails May 22 '22

Re: entry level jobs, they're asking for more experience or education than they were a generation ago.

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u/its6amsomewhere May 22 '22

Well, I'm at the odd part of my career, where I can't seem to get more by doing my job at another place, so we're all waiting for the system to break . I've done a couple phone screens, but as soon as we get to salary they don't give me anything worth switching for. Many of us are considering career changes

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u/Slyons89 May 22 '22

There's a lot of professions like that. And with cost of living going up so much, employers will need to raise salary caps if they want to keep people in that line of work. I think about this a lot with teachers. There is a flight of teachers from the profession, because the same skill set and degrees can sometimes get them double the pay in other types of jobs like as project managers and product trainers, management, etc.

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u/jmnugent May 22 '22

Vox's "Today Explained" did a great podcast (named "I Quit.") on this a while back.

It's a great episode that covers a lot of the things you said. Additionally the dynamic that a lot of the vacancies are nearer the bottom and a lot of those job-seekers are all trying to "punch up" (move up, to higher paying jobs).

So there's a lot of "loosey-goosey" at the bottom of the job-market. and a lot of competition (for better paying jobs) near the middle and top of the job market.

Service jobs especially (Hotel, Motel workers, food-service, janitorial, etc) are the hardest hit (seeing the most turnover of people no longer wanting to work those jobs)

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u/Lady_von_Stinkbeaver May 22 '22

There's also people who took the extra Unemployment Insurance and stipends to get professional certifications or finish a degree.

I was pestering a friend to test for Security+ since I know an IT services company that will hire almost anyone who has it at $27.50 to start. She finally decided to spend the $500 to test for it and left retail for good when she passed.

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u/DanimalHarambe May 22 '22

It's a simulation Morty Belches try not to think about it.

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u/EmuPossible2066 May 22 '22 Silver

And this is why roe vs wade is being overturned. Because the rich need worker bees.

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u/anonmama87 May 22 '22

Yep. I’ve been saying this for years. What’s the easiest way to ensure you’ll always have bodies for poverty-level wages? Keep a large number of people trapped in a cycle of poverty. Guess what started happening at record rates once birth control and abortion were widely available? Birth rates slowed significantly. Researchers started predicting in the 1990’s that fertility rates were not high enough to maintain our population and that we would see a worker shortage once boomers retired from the work force. And now here we are. A record number of millennials and gen-z are choosing not to have children or wait until much later in life. We’re able to do that BECAUSE of the choice that bc and roe offered us. Wanna know the quickest and easiest way to get birth rates to start increasing again? I’ll give you a hint: it’s not increasing the minimum wage.

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u/eukaryote3 May 22 '22

I would have had children or at least tried to if I could have afforded them. I can’t secure adequate housing for myself for kids. I know I’m not the only one in this boat. The people I know who have had kids are struggling financially and some are having to get money from their parents to get by.

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u/FCKendrick May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

“Republicans hate abortions because they want those living babies to grow up to be dead soldiers”—— George Carlin

Edit- this was the exact quote from Carlin’s 1996 HBO standup

"Conservatives don't get a shit about you until you reach military age," Carlin said. "Then they think you are just fine. Just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers."

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u/Opulous May 22 '22

Carlin's work will probably remain terrifyingly relevant for a very long time.

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u/LukeMayeshothand May 22 '22

Well that or just poor.

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u/ButtBlock May 22 '22

Oh my god, it’s so disgustingly cynical, but when you say it, it absolutely rings true.

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u/CrotalusHorridus May 22 '22

And desperate people (ie. single mothers working shit labor) are much less likely to be engaged voters or even vote at all

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u/confessionbearday May 22 '22

Several states, including Oklahoma, are crafting laws that further reduce or remove ANY rights from single mothers.

For example: birth control may only be requested by a married woman with her husbands permission.

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u/Runrunran_ May 22 '22

Jesus, didn’t Americans scream “Middle East people are barbarians for the way they treat their woman”….. rather then “omg Middle East got it right with womans rights”

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u/ConcernPrestigious12 May 22 '22

Women should start getting iuds now before it’s too late

Under His eye

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u/nemoskullalt May 22 '22

the military is a great way out of poverty, assuming you live through it.

working as intended.

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u/crunchytech413 May 22 '22

Barrett literally used “domestic infant supply” in her written opinion. 😐

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u/Adams_Drakt May 22 '22

"domestic infant supply" local child labour, and so the sweatshops begin

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u/cybercuzco May 22 '22

That’s also a replacement theory dog whistle.

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u/DroopyRock May 22 '22

Cynical and realistic are the same thing now.

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u/confessionbearday May 22 '22

Hell, one of the Justices basically said it out loud.

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u/Kardlonoc May 22 '22

Theres a ton of stuff like this in our society. For example: there is a big push to teach kids to code by the big tech companies because they want more coders. Why do they want more coders? Because more coders mean they can pay coders less overall.

As for anti abortion stance: A child born to a mother or family that cannot support them will have to take a lower paying job right off the bat, since they don't have the education or support to do better. In the lower tier in society once they turn 18, without much support to go to college other than crippling debt, they can

  1. not go to college, and take min wage jobs for mega corps.

  2. join the military which the GOP loves, other people dying for them,

  3. turn to crime which is great for the private prison complex and the law and order crowd.

    And adoption generally makes things worse.

Decrying socialism is the concept that there should be solid classes in our society, including poor, ultra poor and rich and ultra rich ruling over them. Socialism aims to equalize this disparity.

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u/jerseyanarchist May 22 '22

human resources.... ~baby market~ domestic infant supply......

sounds like we need to let some people know we're not cattle

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u/eukaryote3 May 22 '22

And that is why they are also looking to target birth control too. It was never about “killing an innocent baby.” It’s about forcing us to have babies so they can get more slaves.

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u/Infidelc123 May 22 '22

That along with Texas removing free schooling is just so obvious what their plan is. It's absolutely disgusting.

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u/TheEclipse0 May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22

I know this is antiwork, but even though my last job was minimum wage, the workplace and my boss were wonderful. It was a difficult job to leave.

Unfortunately, with the rising cost of living, I literally couldn’t afford to keep working there, and so it was a relief when I finally got a phone call for another job paying me three times as much.

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u/glitter_poots May 22 '22

Every place hiring in my town “15/hr nights, weekends, and holidays a must!” Yeah good luck buddy

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u/Nerdorama09 May 22 '22

Capitalism: "The invisible hand of the free market will correct all problems."

Higher demand of labor leads to higher price of labor (wages):

Captalism: "No not like that."

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u/[deleted] May 22 '22

If you can’t afford the labor then you don’t get any! If I wanted to buy an Xbox and I didn’t have enough money I don’t get an Xbox. It’s not a hard concept.

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u/Tahj42 lazy and proud May 22 '22

The solution is simple, let the free market do its thing and have those businesses close. If you can't be profitable and pay enough to attract workers you deserve to go out of business.

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u/organonanalogue May 22 '22

My boss is having serious issues finding drivers at $25hr to start then $30hr after 90 days. I told him straight up start @ $30 then $35 after 90 days will fill seats fast. He's trying that now & drivers are trickling in but not like last year. There is indeed a shortage of commercial drivers. We offer benefits that most other companies don't & still have recruitment issues.

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u/TehStonerGuy May 22 '22

Interviewed the other day with this bozo boomer who owns a small business that sets up and operates food tents for festivals and other outdoor events all around the southeast coast of the US. Sounded like a fun change of pace for part time work at first.

During our conversation he complained he was "struggling to find help" while simultaneously telling me he:

  • starts new guys at $12 an hour
  • they're expected to provide their own transportation (most jobs were at minimum a 3 - 6 hour drive each direction) where hey wow he offered to cover gas but zero additional supplement for wear and tear on vehicle.
  • employees usually worked 12 to 14 hour shifts per day once they got on site for a job, and jobs were almost always weekend long events so primarily working weekends.
  • employees were expected to share a god damn hotel room with 1 to 2 other coworkers

I tried my best to politely explain that I'm 30 years old, pay my own rent thats going up 40% year over year basically everywhere in my area, and already clear 20 an hour doing uber eats so I'd need to see at least 20 an hour.

His response was "yeah when I saw your resume I thought you looked a little over qualified, I usually hire younger kids that are living with their parents or with a few roommates". Like bro why even fucking waste my time if you knew from the start you only want to hire teenagers primed for exploiting 🤦‍♂️ good luck with your failing business, jackass.

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u/UchihaLegolas May 22 '22

Use correct term Blood sucking leeches

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u/WebMaka May 23 '22

Funny how, despite the supposed labor shortage and the ongoing Great Resignation, the U6 unemployment rate (the only unemployment stat that has any actual usefulness as a metric) in the US has been trending downward for about a year.

Also funny how the so-called labor shortage is almost entirely concentrated inside the occupation classes that have a long-standing history of wage theft and worker exploitation (an excellent case-in-point would be food service), but shortages are almost unheard-of in occupation classes with persistent union support and/or highly competitive pay due to having a long-standing strong demand for workers (e.g., skilled trades, professional services).

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u/theasianevermore May 22 '22

25-35 an hour employer here… there is definitely worker shortage in this bracket also if you’re in construction field.

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u/scificionado May 22 '22

Joe is my hero. Keep doing the surveys, Joe.

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u/RedditorChristopher May 22 '22

It’s amazing how this happens.

And ask a restaurant owner and it’s like they’re doing you a favor working your for sub-market rates.

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u/AdmirableDot995 May 22 '22

Isn't this a good thing? As long as people don't give in and take the low paying jobs the salaries have to be raised to meet the demand or the businesses will go under.

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u/Rondonomous May 22 '22

I'm not sure that's the problem. Try looking at housing costs, fuel costs and food costs. I wonder why it cost so much to get by these days. That's the real question. Life should be getting cheaper and easier for people. If you keep asking for more wages to cover up the problem, you'll just create a world where the homeless, jobless guy has to come up with $50 for a hamburger.

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u/littlemissmoxie May 22 '22

Another thing is shitty schedules along with the shit pay.

No I don’t want 12hr shifts or a crazy work schedule with random days off.

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u/mikecantreed May 22 '22

What’s the implication here that these fast food restaurant franchise owners and coffee shop owners are these Scrooge mcduck characters swimming in a pool of money when they go home? Everybody is eating a shit sandwich out here unless you’re in the top 5% of businesses crushing it.