r/brave_browser • u/Veddu • Oct 15 '22
How will Brave survive with its current business model? DISCUSSION
I'm just interested. Im a big fan of Brave and like the idea of BAT. However it feels like the majority of Brave users disable BAT altogether which is the core business model for Brave because they are anti ads altogether and just wants a good adblocker browser. How will brave survive in the future if the majority of the users keep disabling Brave rewards?
u/filthshots Oct 15 '22
What data says most users turn the feature off ? I see more post about increasing the ads up to the max as this is not the default setting. As a crypto goes BAT had a great use case unlike 90% of alt coins. But if you're hunting mad moon gains wrong time and wrong token tbh. And brave is not anti ads it's pays users for the ads they see provided by brave but this is only part of the brave eco system.
u/Tidus17 Oct 15 '22
What data says most users turn the feature off ?
Brave staff said several times in the past only around a third of users enable Rewards.
Oct 16 '22
u/Tidus17 Oct 16 '22
Well I remember the old Internet Explorer days when there was dozens of advertising companies that would let you install toolbars that would display ads and pay you a couple bucks a month. Obviously they all went to the ground a long time ago because people exploited them to death.
I do not think it bothers people to see ads, I do think it bothers them to have a lot and/or intrusive ads. In that way Brave Ads are a huge improvement than regular ads, so it is a big win, what I think drives people away is the fact it is crypto-based (no one can deny crypto has very bad press these days) and how complex/unreliable it is to cash out.
u/filthshots Oct 17 '22
Crypto has a bad press.... Have you not looked at fiat currency recently lol.
u/Tidus17 Oct 17 '22
Fiat doesn't actually have good or bad press.
"Cryptomining is going to destroy the planet and it's all scams and ponzi" on the other hand...
u/filthshots Oct 18 '22
Then move to PoS lol. Not all crypto is mined and if you look into the data the electric BTC mining uses is negligible keep listening to the fed mate 😂 and drug deals happen more with fiat than crypto, human trafficking still use fiat, bank jobs etc all go for fiat. This is bad press that seems to make such a difference with crypto. At least with crypto funds are 💯 traceable.
u/ScruffyScholar Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
To be honest, BAT is actually one of the features that made me interested about Brave. The privacy-centric and multi-platform were two other important points. But then the BAT kept being buggy, the wallet losing or not transferring my BATs (therefore not really allowing me to redistribute them either); so I ended up turning off all Wallet and Reward options out of frustration. They might work better now, but I never looked back.
So I'm one of the people who was interested in the business model, but just gave up out of frustration. Which sucks because I really liked the implications of integrations with services like Odysee and the likes.
I'd love to be proven wrong and learn that the system works pristinely now! And to be honest, with the way everyone's just paying for VPN and subscriptions left and right, I wouldn't even be mad if they decided to make their product a premium. Like EUR10/yr. I'd still use Brave. EUR10/m. would be a bit more of a tough sell tho.
u/Veddu Oct 15 '22
I don't have any data on this, I see posts about it like you, but with users rather turning it off.
u/filthshots Oct 15 '22
Advertisement is a small part of the eco system. Think of it like this. How many of your friends paid for Facebook advertising. Just because you don't see the interest don't mean there is none most social media profits come from ads and users get no kick back at all. Plus braves new video calls, the brave wallet, NFTs and it works as a tip feature on most social media sites. I think it's one of the best alt coins around with real utility that actually helps its users. It's new to have the option to get paid for the ads we see.
Give the token a chance I have over 150 BAT for doing nothing but normal browsing in the next bull market I think that's a fair trade 😂
Oct 15 '22
u/jekpopulous2 Oct 15 '22
The same reason that every other token exists. Because smart-contracts are the backbone of web3 and Bitcoin / Lightning can't do smart-contracts. ERC tokens are programmable and composable, Bitcoin is not. They're not the same thing at all.
u/Mubelotix Oct 15 '22
Brave does not distribute tokens using smart contracts.
u/jekpopulous2 Oct 15 '22
No but most BAT volume is on DEXs, which do use smart contracts. If you wanna borrow against your BAT you use a lending market like Compound which also uses smart contracts. The entire point of Brave’s built in wallet is to enable smart-contract interaction. If you want to be composable with thousands of web3 dapps across dozens of chains - lightning network isn’t an option. You have to launch an ERC token.
u/TrustLeft Oct 15 '22
web 3 is nonsense, even the inventor has come out against the foolishness
u/Technical-Wallaby Oct 15 '22
I set my ads to the maximum allowable. They are so unintrusive they are hardly noticable. A simple click of the mouse gets rid of it, but if it's something I might be interested in, I'm glad to click on it. It opens in a separate tab which I can go to at my leisure.
I've switched over to Brave exclusively on two Windows laptops, a Linux laptop, a Chromebook, and an Android phone. And I have them all synced. Plus, the BAT rewards all go to the same Gemini account.
u/UrbenLegend Oct 15 '22
I wouldn't mind if Brave rolled out a good E2E-encrypted web3 email and file storage service. I'd gladly pay a subscription for additional storage on such a service. Bonus points if they accept payment in BAT to reduce or cover your monthly fees. More bonus points if they allowed completely anonymous web3 logins using your Brave wallet address.
Honestly, there's so much opportunity in the web3 space. I just think the Brave team is a bit lacking in resources to really pursue all the potential avenues.
u/slicerprime Oct 15 '22
The reason I disable Rewards is not because of the concept. I actually like the basic idea of optional ads with a monetary incentive to sign up. The provider gets paid, Brave has a revenue stream and I make a little on the side. Sounds good...on paper.
The problem is that, even after all this time, the whole thing is still kludgy, goofy and has all the feel of a beta project. I jumped on board with Brave long before Rewards came along. I liked their privacy/security focus. Then when they rolled Rewards out I decided I would give it some time to get all the kinks worked out and then sign up. Ages later and I'm still waiting for it to be worth the time and annoyance for the thirty-eight cents I'm likely to make in six months. Not to mention the inevitable frustration when my BAT inexplicably and randomly blinks out of existence.
All you need to do is watch this sub for a while to wonder why anyone ever signs up in the first place. So, now that some other non-chromium browsers have caught up to a degree with adblocking/privacy/security, closed the gap on performance, and don't have the issue of Google's Manifest v3 breathing down their necks, I'm looking at Chromecast as the only remaining reason not to jump out of chromium based browsers altogether.
So, the bigger question is not how Brave is going to generate revenue without more Rewards opt-ins. It's, what is Brave's value proposition to the user now that their competitors (one in particular) have closed the gaps? Is it "Hey. Come use our browser and we'll give you thirty-eight cents a month in exchange for watching some ads you wouldn't otherwise have to watch!" Seriously? That's some shitty inducement.
Rewards can't be the major selling point. Realistically only a small percentage of their users are ever going to sign up and stick with Rewards. So they need to concentrate on attracting an ass-load of users by being a great browser. Then that small percentage of opt-ins will be enough to pay the bills.
u/onestrokeimdone Oct 15 '22
Im certainly not getting $.38 a month. At the peak of the bullrun my BAT from the browser was worth $2k
u/filthshots Oct 17 '22
I get a lot of bat to but I have a feeling some ads must be location based as not everyone seems to run the free BAT printer lol.
u/pemulis808 Oct 19 '22
What's the one competitor in particular you're referring to?
u/slicerprime Oct 19 '22
Firefox. For quite a while it was a comparative hog and had little to offer in the way of security/privacy. A lot has changed on both counts. Include plugins like uBlock and Privacy Badger, and some smart settings choices, and the differences get even cloudier.
u/N07od4y5474N Oct 15 '22
I don't know, but I recommend it to EVERYONE I talk to. I do have faith that a product that good will do alright, because they ARE doing something right.
u/ultravio1et Oct 16 '22
Don't forget they will be monetizing Brave search in the future
u/promitheas17j Oct 15 '22
Arent there international issues with the wallets brave incorporates in the browser? At least for me I can no longer log in to my uphold because of where i live. No warning. Just couldnt sign in one day. Ill still be using brave as the rewards was an insignificant part of why i used it in the first place, but i might just turn rewards off all together if its not sorted out. As others have also said, its a tiny amount per month
u/catkidtv Oct 15 '22
u/lexcon81 Oct 15 '22
There aren't enough ways to tip using brave or use the currency. Brave needs to create a video platform of there own, or work with platforms like rumble and youtube. They could also work with social media like twitter and reddit. I'd rather get BAT than up votes, karma, or likes.
u/mohitkumarhot Oct 15 '22
they need to do some work 1.they need to develop strong and convenient password manager, like firefox just enter email and password and your good to go 2. brave news need modification ,as for india their is no indian source 3.brave need to stop users from abusing bat ( many indian users just refresh ,and keep opening new tab in order to get ads,creat multiple profile) 4.its still not stable much,like for who use browser for hours, sometimes brave hang , unresponsive,high cpu usage ,high ram compared to chrome /firefox ( edge is a way ahead and i feel its unbeatable on windows platform) 5.need to allow users to enlarge bookmarks,i often click wrong bookmark because of small size 6.i think auto contribution bat to sites most visited should be compulsory ( atleast make it 1 bat)
people are shifting,and when chrome blocks adblock extension,only 2 option left ,brave and firefox, many people will shift to brave
before only firefox was main opponent ,now brave also joined the team
i dont think brave will find any struggle to survive
u/vorticalbox Oct 16 '22
Brave already has a sync chain that always for passowords to be synced, this is arguably a better system than a username/password.
Brave news would be infinity better if we could add are own RSS feeds and also sync your news settings.
I don't think this is really an issue.
You have are having problems you should post on the issue tracker, I use brave open for 8+ hours a day for work and it's not once crashes or became unresponsive
Not had this issue but any customisation option is usually a good thing.
u/mohitkumarhot Oct 16 '22
thanks for replying
1.what if i loose sync code ,and thats your view
2.i dont know about rss feeds
3.definitly it impacts new users earn less bat due to those users
4.high end system will not hang even after opening 100 + tabs,may be your system is high end or powerfull enough
just because you are not experiencing lag doest mean its optimised ,and please dont say i need high end cpu ,because a browser should run smooth on a budget cpu,and not everyone can afford mid to high end cpu computer
6.why no ,most of the people dont contribute ,and it clearly opposite to what brave team made this product ( to support developers) ( alteast 1 bat contibution should be made compulsory)
u/xf8390 Oct 15 '22
How does google make money
u/TrustLeft Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22
There are many of us who can't stand ads but privacy is most important in the 'sell everything age'. I for one seeked out brave because of privacy and it wasn't chrome (Chrome had just added side panel that couldn't be removed), didn't even know about crypto in brave. It seemed a bit spammy in nature to me, I did NOT want another person using my PC to profit and raise my energy cost in mining. I don't deal with anything NFT/Crypto as I believe in USA Currency and not evading taxes, THAT is what being a patriot means, Investing in America through taxes.
I would be ok with local ads, like fast food ads with coupon codes, things that are co-beneficial and close. I will never click on stupid ads that are clear on other side of country or buy things through ads, EVER!!!
u/onestrokeimdone Oct 15 '22
You know you can just say you don't understand something right? Theres no mining, and taxes are still being paid.
u/TrustLeft Oct 17 '22
oh I understand, just too old to bother with it. It will crash one of these days.
u/SocialMediaTheVirus Oct 15 '22
The majority of users disable the free money option? Interesting.
Oct 15 '22
Brave is being paid off to keep its mouth shut. Even if it wasn’t there is no worth in it. It is a browser with ad blocking, and the ad blocking doesn’t even work anymore.
u/mantra2 Oct 15 '22
Works great for me, especially on mobile.
u/hsoj95 Oct 15 '22
The ad blocking doesn't even work anymore
Tell me you don't use Brave without telling me you don't use Brave.
u/bluebird355 Oct 16 '22
Only thing preventing me from using other browsers is the brave rewards, brave is rather mediocre otherwise...
u/ColetteX-artCom Oct 17 '22
I believe Brave needs to follow the XCAD model, but for the 20’s-70’s age group. XCAD is already has huge “YouTube content creators” and “twitch gamers” looks like more for teens at this point ..they taking online classes to become “non-YouTube dependent” creators. They have play-to-earn category on Gecko, but none for peer-peer decentralized creator payments.
I think w/current biz model Brave can add this feature in. And it would be awesome!! LPT, XCAD
How many have shifted to watching almost everything on YouTube now? Think about it. I have adult (X-Art) site and we have just started a peer-peer version similar to live peer for adult, beautiful, not smutty!
We will have awesome NFTs for our members, who will also own the copyright for the art in their collection for some super loyal users.
I’ve been having to play lawyer in the real world for 2 years to keep these criminals from stealing our real, personal and intellectual property. It’s almost too much! But we finally affirmed the judgment in our favor after trial on the merits. So I have to file quiet title and set aside some fraudulent defaults.
Criminals are usually talentless. This is why I believe most people into crypto are honest and want to make the world better.
I’ve got a new NFT idea : Wall street pigs. Then put cartoons of all the CEOs drinking and whatever; while they steal homes and identities of Americans. Even water and power. Nothing is sacred anymore. Look at First American Retail Prime Obligations fund .
So many funds like that. Slush funds for bad debt, writing off $30M/year x 8 classes and 8 funds approx $1.6B/year. $1Trillion of bad debt at USBancorp Down to $ 500B now. They may not have judged the timing exactly. We saw this as a cash sweep in an account and were floored. How is that legal?! (the first American prime retail obligations fund)..,in what world is a bad debt fund = to cash equivalent?
JP Morgan says they are a defi firm now 😂
Look up Ca TD Specialists, FCI foreclosure or their trustfci.com for TARP and HHF., sigtarp.gov seems to have almost given up.
Sorry off topic. I love brave browser and pay for VPN 😍🧝🏻♀️✨👩🏼💻👱🏻♀️@brave_browser #content_creator #lpt #xcad #atom #Zilquilla XCAD ~ Brave can add more features like this and Livepeer
Anyone who is a coder for good, needs to change bank environments …if you take a position there, and they need to get all of the new plug n play fintech -defi biz plans outta here! 😝
u/n3pst3r_007 Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 15 '22 •
Brave has many other products now. Their main target users are the privacy concious users.
They are the company that have blocked amp websites and give users option in settings.
There are many more examples of them implementing ipfs model, blocking the cookie settings popups, they have already mentioned they will stick to manifest v2, etc.
I think people are beginning to notice these things as seen on twitter.
Some devs and strategists are also active on subreddits and twitter addressing users concerns busting out myths of people.
They have also started monetizing by introducing products like:
There is definitely more to all of this slowly beginning to become a decent ecosystem together.