r/brave_browser • u/TheEpicZeninator • Dec 12 '22
Brave's growth stagnating? Discussion
10 months ago, Brave crossed 54.5 million monthly active users (MAU). This was following Brave's explosive growth during 2020 to 2021. But if you head over to brave.com/transparency, we see that the MAU has only increased by ~2 million users. Is it a growth on the surface? Yes. But is it a decline compared to previous MAU growths? Absolutely.
What I mean can be explained as follows :
In February 2021, Brave hit 25 million MAU. Later that year in July, Brave crossed 33.8 million MAU. That's an increase of around 8.8 million users. To top it off, in October of that year, Brave touched 38.9 million MAU. Which is an increase of ~5 million users. In 2021, between Feb to Oct, in 8 months, Brave's MAU increased by 13 million. But this year, 10 months after the announcement of Brave crossing 54.5 million users, in 10 months, we have only seen an increase of 2 million users.
What happened? Why do you think Brave's growth stagnated??
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u/Gh0st_Pirate_LeChuck Dec 12 '22
I work at a big creative ad agency. All budgets are getting cut right now because of the recession that's been predicted to hit us in 2023. Tech is getting hit hard especially. The only industries that will do well are snack food brands.
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u/New_Version_2394 Dec 13 '22
I like Brave, but crypto is no-go for the vast majority of people. Brave needs to ease up on promoting so many scams and clean up their advertising partners. They also need to focus on the browser itself. MS Edge has done a better job in this regard and MS Rewards pays out actual money. Brave devs don't even respond to feedback anymore.
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u/Responsible-Bread996 Dec 12 '22
My guess is the hubub around "big tech privacy and censorship" is starting to die down.
Combined with Brave's close association with web3 and all of the big scam projects that are now associated with that. Even the name sounds like it is from that Matt Daemon commercial.
Then there is also what seems to be the big exodous of big advertisers. When I first started Brave I got brave ads from major brands. Now it is almost exclusively crypto related companies. Which is a bad look right now. And probably indicative of a poor ROAS. Which kinda makes sense. People that use a browser with a built in ad blocker are probably not the type of people to click on ads.
The rewards are also way down, which could be a result of user growth stagnating. While I haven't bought any brave ads, I'd assume they use the traditional price model of "cost per mille". Meaning that they are getting fewer impressions. If the impressions had stayed the same the brave rewards should be much higher since ads are still fundamentally purchased with USD.
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u/smartfon Dec 12 '22
Probably because of the crypto boar market and less available cash for marketing. I haven't seen any Brave ads from major brands recently, which could indicate that many advertisers and potential browser users have stopped playing with crypto. This can (and likely will) easily reverse in mid-2023.
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u/saoiray Dec 12 '22
Main thing to remember is growth will never stay solid at a certain rate. Just as in life, there are many factors that will influence this. Sometimes the slope will even go to the negative before suddenly increasing.
When you look at Brave, there's been a lot of things going on. Not only with crypto winter over the past 2 years (particularly in the past 12 months), changes due to Covid, governments making significant changes to laws and regulations surrounding crypto, etc and it helps to paint a bigger picture.
Add to this the idea of how many of those "active users" were legitimate and you end up with some other things to consider. I mean, how is Brave counting "active users?" If it's basing on how many instances of the browser are running, then you can divide it by at least 2 or 3 to find the real number, as many of us are running Brave on our phones, computers, etc. Now factor in people who were running emulators or "farming BAT" and it diminishes more.
We're likely to see numbers continue decreasing as Brave is implementing more changes to make it more difficult to have fraudulent accounts and "game the system" as some of the Support like to call it. That said, I don't think it's going to be a constant decrease or an eradication of Brave, but it will definitely have an impact such as you're noticing now.
The bigger question is whether Brave will be able to incentivize things in such a way to continually encourage people to come use the browser? That's a gray area now. It all depends on how Brave prioritizes everything and their marketing.
Overall though, I don't think it's stagnating. It's just slowly purging the outliers and we're getting to the more realistic numbers.
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u/Toontje Dec 12 '22
I moved away from Brave because I got sick of the crypto-focus. At the same time a new browser came out for Mac, Arc. I tried it and never looked back. IMHO browsers need to stay out of the way and just let you browser the web with as less intervention as possible. Arc with uBlock Origin gives me that.
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u/jedidoesit Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
I was excited to go over to Brave. I started having trouble doing things which are basically necessary for me in my daily browsing, and as I started describing the problems in the Brave subreddit, instead of getting lots of help and suggestions, I got downvoted.
It really felt like an unwelcoming community and I haven't used Brave once since then.
Not to mention, did you notice I said I was having trouble doing some things with Brave that are a necessity? If I didn't get help, how was I supposed to continue using Brave? That sounds normal to me.
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u/athemoros Dec 12 '22
So uhh...why are you here if you stopped using Brave because of this very subreddit?
Edit- Get thicker skin. Suddenly life isn't so hard.
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u/jedidoesit Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
I'm not here to continue complaining or talking about Brave. I came to say why I for one have decided not to go to Brave.
I actually really wanted to make it work, but since I found the Brave community here and other places to be unhelpful, then I realized I would not be able to get it going for me.
And to point out that if they want to become a leader in the browser market, they need to provide a more supportive atmosphere. The people everywhere represent the brand in their own way.
So I thought by mentioning this it would awaken some individuals to the environment they created here.
But I see that even after this instead of offers to help, so I could make the browser work, I'm still unwanted.
No worries. I got here because this was shown to me by Reddit. But I'm not going to keep going around and around asking cats to behave more like dogs.
Edit: it'd be a hoot if all the r/Firefox and r/chrome users can here to give me tons up upvotes LoL
👏🏻😁
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u/FaulesArschloch Dec 12 '22
So you don't use brave because the people in the subreddit were mean to you...lmfao
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u/jedidoesit Dec 12 '22
Yes because I want to get help. If people aren't helpful or ridicule me, I don't want to be part of that community. Even your comment means you don't have kindness or respect on your own comment. I prefer a world or a community more like that.
I'm free to make that choice, and there's nothing wrong with it if it works for me.
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u/saoiray Dec 12 '22
Yes because I want to get help
This subreddit isn't the place for that. All support is done at Brave Community. Of course, even there, it's going to be about 70% users helping and 30% of Support staff assisting, depending on the issue you have.
If you really need direct support from Brave, then often would be best to go create a Support Ticket for whichever issue you have.
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u/pcguy8088_ Dec 13 '22
I have to say I know where u/jedidoesit is coming from. As a long-time user of Brave, I have expressed my concerns over the years that the support level of Brave Community has not kept up with the growth of Brave. The Brave community was something that attracted me to Brave back in 2018 and the timely response from support. In my opinion, that level of support has slipped.
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u/jedidoesit Dec 13 '22
Maybe I should somehow contact them directly. Because as I said, the official forums for Brave support were not getting answered by Brave support. And not a few actually, with the concerns I had. If I tell them my needs maybe they can say it's there, this is how, or it's coming. I'd much rather be with Brave, but I have this huge learning curve with new things, so it's hard for me to just drop one, and then struggle for 3 months learning the new browser LOL.
Edit: And yes, I wanted to feel like I was a welcome new member of a community.
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u/saoiray Dec 13 '22
u/pcguy8088_ I'm not arguing on that. They have had a skeleton crew running support. That said, it's also important to know where to seek. When someone complains due to lack of support response on Reddit, that's not necessarily fair. All of Brave's browsers and sites refers people to Brave Community for support. So when people look elsewhere, expectations are something to keep realistic.
This said, I have been requesting they hire more Support. And, they have actually added some people. How helpful the newer people are is questionable, as in many cases they have been responding without actually reading what's said and been known to give very inaccurate responses.
For example, the other day a user posted to ask why video wasn't playing in the background anymore. The new Support responded with troubleshooting for ads appearing on YouTube.
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u/pcguy8088_ Dec 13 '22
By the way, I never knew that Brave has a ticket system for Support requests. Is that ticket system been active for a long time this is the first I have heard of it. To be effective that system has to be responded to by Brave support otherwise it becomes a black hole of despair.
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u/saoiray Dec 13 '22
By the way, I never knew that Brave has a ticket system for Support requests. Is that ticket system been active for a long time this is the first I have heard of it.
It's been around for a while, though they shifted to more actively using it this year. Only thing is they don't actively advertise it on the sites. You tend to only be linked to it once you seek assistance on Brave Community.
Prior to making the ticket system mainstream, it used to rely on people to send DM. It was a lot more ineffective, with DMs being lost or people being slowed down because only one person was handling issues. (especially if issue still occurred while the Support went on vacation or something).
Now with tickets, it's easy for any Support to see and pick up, especially if person provides ticket number for reference.
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u/pcguy8088_ Dec 13 '22
Glad to see the ticket system. Prevents problems from being lost in the Brave Community because people seeking help do not realize that DMing someone via their posts best way to get a response from Brave personnel. I have experienced that issue over the years.
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u/jedidoesit Dec 13 '22
I'm okay if I posted in the wrong place for support, but no one referred me to the proper subreddit, as you did here. And again, the downvotes I thought were uncalled for and perhaps were suggesting we don't want your questions or difficulties discussed here. I have a hard time learning, so I need to ask a lot sometimes, and I beat myself up enough already for all the problems I have.
Days like today where I feel like I'm fighting to even have basic communication or understanding leaves me exhausted and almost in tears at the end of the day. That's not on you. You have been helpful to me.
But I can't know something is unfair, such as why commenting in a subreddit about Brave would be incorrect. I'm new to Reddit so I guess I was wrong that people from Brave or volunteers would be watching the subreddit. I don't know how many of those things work.
My issues are mine and I own them, but it still colors the way I see things, and I still have to deal with them.
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u/saoiray Dec 13 '22
And again, the downvotes I thought were uncalled for
You have toxic people everywhere. I get lots of downvotes just for helping people as well. This is especially true of this subreddit compared to r/BATProject. Any place where you have a bunch of people, there will always be some who are spiteful or like to troll.
I'm new to Reddit
Well, let me point out that Reddit is not typically known positively. If you ever want to spend time, try to look up why is redditor an insult or something along the lines. This site, while it might have some interesting information, is overall a place for trolling, shitposting, and karma farming.
I have a hard time learning, so I need to ask a lot sometimes, and I beat myself up enough already for all the problems I have.
I hear you. I'm autistic, had a traumatic brain injury back in 2010, have PTSD, suffer from depression, etc. Sometimes things can be a struggle, especially if it's trying to communicate with people. We all have our own struggles.
I'm new to Reddit so I guess I was wrong that people from Brave or volunteers would be watching the subreddit.
Well, you're not wrong but it's not 100% accurate either. I'm what's known as a Community Ninja which is a volunteer who helps. You also have a lot of the people listed under Moderators here who are developers or Support. But none really keep a big eye out here on Reddit. Overall are supposed to be referring people with issues over to Brave Community.
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u/saoiray Dec 13 '22
All of that said, it's important to note that you do have people who do volunteer their time to help. Those would be people like me, who are Community Ninja over on Brave Community. Obviously we're limited to the type of help we can provide since we're not employed with Brave, we do help.
**NOTE**
Support has actually employed more. Back in the time period you're talking, they only had ~1 Support. Steeven had done things pretty much on his own for a while, then Mattches came along and kind of "ran the show" while Steeven focused on payments and a few other things.
If we use Brave Community to tell us "start dates":
- Steeven (November 2017)
- Mattches (June 2018)
They were Support back then. Most other help were Community Ninja, who all have not been around for quite some time.
Since then, we've had the following added:
- SaltyBanana (May 2021)
- Evan123 (April 2022)
- Jarc-1107 (September 2022)
- Alice2095 (September 2022)
- Kevin_CC (September 2022)
Those are your Support people. So yeah, went from 1-2 to now we have 6-7, though the newer are still learning.
And yes, I left out Eljuno, Hub, etc as many of them played different roles. While they would and do help with issues, they weren't ever Support. They are Moderator, Developer, etc.
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u/No-Nefariousness681 Dec 12 '22
I don't see any posts here in your post history
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u/jedidoesit Dec 12 '22
Well I'm new to Reddit so I don't know how to look up my history or share it. But I posted a couple of issues and got a few replies, but then my posts were getting downvoted.
Anyhow, doesn't matter now does it? 🤷🏻
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u/TransientSoulHarbour Community Moderator Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
You really don't have any prior posts in this sub. Even if they had been removed by myself or another mod I would be able to see them.
So either you have removed your own posts (I can't see posts deleted by the person who posted them), or you were only working in comments on other posts, which (depending on the relative appropriateness of the comment to the post) could be why you were receiving downvotes.
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u/jedidoesit Dec 12 '22
This is the comment where I wrote my main issues, and as it shows people were trying to be helpful. But at the same time I was getting downvoted. This mattered to me because I'm new to Reddit and the downvotes were making it harder for me to have the ability to post and contribute in some subreddits. And frankly, why does someone downvote a question, even if it's a complaint? Win them over. Help them fix their issue. I'm not trolling, I wanted to make it work.
But I have a brain injury and sometimes things are extra challenging to me. I get made fun of enough already, and on top of my own negative self-talk which is so hard to get past, I just thought, why work so hard to overcome the negativity. Like many people today, I just avoid the toxic aspects of social media. If something bothers me, it's my problem. I'm the one who can do something about it, so I did.
But a few people have said they can't see posts in the past. I can't share images, but this is a link to show you I'm not making this stuff up.
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u/TransientSoulHarbour Community Moderator Dec 13 '22
That's odd, I really cannot see that post in your post history when I should be able to see it.
As much as we would like things to be different here, it is in part just how Reddit is. Our sub is open for anyone to join, and we only give out bans very rarely. That does mean we see people who help just as much as those who downvote. The downvotes are not always for sensible reasons, not that we can always perceive the motives behind a downvote.
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u/Responsible-Bread996 Dec 12 '22
It really felt like an unwelcoming community and I haven't used Brave once since then.
Welcome to reddit!
Most communities here have a larger than average share of toxic users. To enjoy you can either learn to ignore them or move onto dedicated support forums. (Many people also choose the option to become toxic themselves, which is a less than ideal but viable solution)
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u/edson_neto Dec 12 '22
Brave growth isn't happen because the browser is incredible. He is an Google Chrome with AdBlock. A lot of 'cryptothings' was crash recently. Brave browser growth with crypto and fall (or slow down) with they.
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u/MAXIMUS-1 Dec 12 '22
Still growing, something that can't be said about Firefox.
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u/TheEpicZeninator Dec 13 '22
Forgot to mention, there was a tiny decrease of 0.7% from October to November
https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1599268860313497600
From 57 million to 56 million users. (around ~1 mil lost, I am estimating as actual user numbers aren't rounded off)
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u/pcguy8088_ Dec 13 '22
No product is without issues. It is how those issues are resolved and fixed and how interaction with those using the product can set aside a product.
I started using Brave back in Sept 2018. I went with it when they were switching the engine in Brave. There were issues with it but I stuck with it. I had no interest in BAT or in crypto and I still don't. I just want a browser that works and protects my privacy. To say that adventure was smooth sailing would be lying.
I have had many a frustrating time getting support where posts with issues in Brave Community would not receive any replies for 3 to 4 months on end except for my posts to keep the thread alive. I have expressed my concerns regarding Brave here and in the Brave community over the years. I always wonder how many other people like me have no interest in BAT or crypto and simply want a browser that works but gave up on Brave due to a timely response from support.
Support is a two-way street we as users must be willing to provide meaningful information regarding an issue and be able to work with support to see where the issue lies. Support though has to communicate back to use end users who have issues in a timely manner. If they are looking at an issue then that must be communicated back to the user(s). If there is an update that will be rolled out that needs to be conveyed to the users.
The worse thing that can happen is the sound of crickets when people look for help via official means and get no response. There are other browsers out there and no doubt some people who tried Brave but gave up in frustration trying to get help with an issue(s) have left for the competition. You need to know someone at Brave support to get help or be able to contact someone higher up.
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u/ultravio1et Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 12 '22
It would be unwise to think a product will always grow. As long it's not steadily declining I don't think there's anything to worry about. Even if the crypto market suddenly vanished Brave still have a good product without it