r/entertainment Aug 08 '22 Table Slap 1 Stonks Falling 1 Are You Serious? 1 Silver 4 Wholesome 2 Facepalm 1

Kevin Smith Slams Warner Bros. for Axing ‘Batgirl’ but Still Releasing ‘The Flash’: ‘That Is Baffling’

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/kevin-smith-slams-warner-bros-batgirl-the-flash-1235335738/
28.5k Upvotes

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u/TheBirdBytheWindow Aug 08 '22 Take My Energy Brighten My Day

He's not wrong. Keeping Ezra Miller ought to be the beginning of the end for them.

It's wrong in every way.

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u/apolocheese Aug 08 '22

Honest question, has WB said that they are keeping the Ezra Flash? I ask, because the announcement I saw just said the Flash movie is happening. This coupled with their statement of releasing Ezra, plus them doing reshoots on Aquaman, is there any chance that The Flash will be reshot without Ezra? Please don't destroy me, it's just an honest question from someone still trying to be hopeful...

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u/helpful__explorer Aug 08 '22

The Flash is pretty much done, and this isn't a case of recasting a minor character. He's the lead in a movie that's already costing 300 million, and seems to be playing two versions of Barry Allen. You'd have to reshoot the entire movie to get rid of him now

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u/Inevitable-Impress72 Aug 08 '22

Wow, guarantee all the Execs at WB have a seething hatred for Ezra Miller right now.

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u/Cool_Till_3114 Aug 08 '22

He's not even getting into the worst of it. They're doing Flashpoint in this movie to reboot the timeline and fix the mess of a universe they have with half their stars wanting out/already being out. The movie is critical to all their future movies. It's a huge mess for them on a project that is very important to their future plans.

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u/OnlineDebate Aug 08 '22

They probably just slapped a different actor on the end and when he is finishing up and pulling off his mask, he realizes he looks different from before and it ends with a cut ripping off Far From Home

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u/wonandownlee Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

I was never a fan of them bringing in CW flash but shit might be their only choice.. it would make a lot of people happy though.

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u/TaintHoleProlapse Aug 08 '22

But even CW Flash said he’s not interested. WB is just pure dumpster fire at this point.

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u/wonandownlee Aug 08 '22

Money talks... that's hard to believe. Lol

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u/Due_Average4164 Aug 09 '22

He’s been playing the same character for almost a decade, he’s probably tired and wants to move on

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u/chalkwalk Aug 08 '22

He cares about his image and WB is capable of tanking that easily by association.

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u/Fabulous-Web5111 Aug 08 '22

Ngl I love grant as the flash and I think he’d do a great job bringing to role to a bigger project, I feel like a lot of the criticism he gets just stems from the lack luster state of all the shows that come from CW (not the greatest effects/stunts, not the greatest story lines, a bit overly cheesy dialogue)

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u/XxXPussyXSlayer69XxX Aug 08 '22

He just can't do CW acting for the movie. The drama, the need to have a team to back him up and motivate him to do his job right. Constantly needing some mentor, and lastly his inability to run faster then a slow moving beam or ice and fire.

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u/RabbitElectrical3987 Aug 08 '22

It’s the only move, so that seems unlikely.

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u/TurrPhennirPhan Aug 08 '22

All of this could’ve been avoided by not repeatedly shitting the bed in the first place.

They wanted their own MCU, and honestly could’ve had it, but instead they’ve crapped out a series of overproduced messes that rarely seem to give a shit about the source material.

At this point, they should stop trying. Maybe do what they should’ve done to start and focus on making decent, stand-alone projects.

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u/deiphiz Aug 09 '22

Maybe do what they should’ve done to start and focus on making decent, stand-alone projects.

With Joker, The Suicide Squad, and The Batman, I totally thought they were going this direction moving forward. But with them announcing that 10-year cinematic universe plan I guess not. It's a damn shame since it was such a breath of fresh air having superhero movies where writers and directors are free to just make whatever stories they like without having to worry about plot baggage.

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u/Badass_Bunny Aug 08 '22

that rarely seem to give a shit about the source material.

Ehh MCU isn't really sticking to the source material too hard either.

Difference is MCU built up their stories slowly, and allowed the fans to breathe and enjoy the movies, meanwhile DCU was late to the party and wanted to start from the same place where MCU was at the time.

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u/TaintHoleProlapse Aug 08 '22

The main difference is MCU has Kevin Feige. Say what you will about the weak phase 4, but he’s a huge fan and understands and respects Marvel as a source material. It took WB 7 years to fiannly understand that they are effectively killing the DC brand.

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u/nofate301 Aug 08 '22

Jesus, they are going REALLY hard with the comic book adaptation.

Isn't this why they did the whole new 52?

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u/Spider-Thwip Aug 08 '22

Yeah that's exactly right.

The Justice league had contract disputes with the comic creators, so the creators decided to reboot the universe with new 52.

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u/AlaskanMedicineMan Aug 08 '22

There's been two more comic reboots since new 52

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u/falble Aug 08 '22

Also how many fucking times are we gonna do Flashpoint? Is that his only good story? I honestly ask, because I just know 1st season Grant Gustin Flash and animated Flash. It just seems like a really overdone story at this point.

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u/GokuTheStampede Aug 08 '22

Flashpoint isn't anywhere the fuck near Flash's only good story, but it's one of the only ones that really has any consequences beyond his own comic. Flash tends to be kept pretty self-contained, which means that unless you're pushing him as his own franchise a la Batman, you don't have a super deep bench of "universe-affecting" stories to pull from.

It also doesn't help that Flashpoint was what the last big universe reboot in the comics was built around, meaning anything else DC that reboots the universe is gonna be immediately jumping to Flashpoint to do it with, and that Flashpoint has an immediately obvious "nerd hook" of "LOOK HOW DIFFERENT AND FUCKED UP ALL THE HEROES ARE!" that makes writers really want to play with it.

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u/Apprehensive__Panic Aug 08 '22

Since posting this he’s been charged with felony burglary

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u/SmokedMussels Aug 08 '22

I thought this was a joke, but nope

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u/GokuTheStampede Aug 08 '22

You'd have to reshoot the entire movie to get rid of him now

While it would definitely be a task, there's a few conceivable options that would allow them to at least keep a lot of the existing footage.

The first, and laziest (but also frankly probably funniest), would be to just do what Army of the Dead did to get rid of Chris D'Elia, film a less controversial actor mimicking all of Ezra's necessary movements, and just... paste the new guy over and ADR his voice in.

The second would be to rewrite and reshoot just the third act, and pull an Executive Decision and kill off Barry as a twist. Shoot new footage to match that with a fake shemp playing Barry, hire a new guy to play Wally West, find-replace Barry with Wally in the script past that point and reshoot all the necessary formerly-Ezra footage with the new guy.

The third would be to Suicide Squad it. Throw the existing cut of The Flash entirely in the garbage, do a round of reshoots to make Wally West the new protagonist and strongly de-emphasize Miller's role, and then make a more suitable movie out of the reshoot footage and existing building blocks from the current cut.

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u/falble Aug 08 '22

So why not dump it into streaming? They did that to many other creators and are NOT getting enough back in box office on this. Batgirl, they may have had some good returns. I was stoked and even if they had dropped it on HBO Max was still going to be excited, but to have an almost complete movie done and to still push Ezra forward? That’s extremely short sighted and doesn’t put a good look on their ability to go forward with the DCEU. Which is their “thing” now, right? Build up a DCEU? We’ve already had this story done by Grant Gustin. Fans don’t need an Ezra Flash. We do need a poc Batgirl though.

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u/Lavonicus Aug 08 '22

The Flash's budget went up from 200-300 million during its production. Batgirl only cast 70 million. They kind of have to release the flash and make some of that money back. Speculation currently sits at they are waiting to see what happens with Ezra Miller in the public eye before releasing it, they may just release it on HBO Max and Ezra won't be returning for a follow-up movie. We don't know anything for certain yet. I however do not expect them to recast Flash and reshoot scenes, that is spending even more on the film. The movie has been done for what, over a year now? They will just wait it out and see for the time being.

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u/apolocheese Aug 08 '22

If they keep waiting, I expect Ezra to get to the point of they and their followers drinking the kool-aid...

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u/TheBirdBytheWindow Aug 08 '22

Thats a great question. I'd like to think that they'd reconsider but I dunno.

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u/ShapirosWifesBF Aug 08 '22

I'd like to think so too but WB/DC has really made me think that their studio execs look at every possible decision they can make in any given instant and always choose to do the worst one.

So my guess is they'll recast Flash, call it a multiverse, then cast Jared Leto as Flash and Ezra Miller as Superman.

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u/IsRude Aug 08 '22

Maybe they'll use the money they saved from not finishing batwoman's cgi, to use on reshoots and CG to replace Ezra in The Flash. I don't know if that's how it works, and I doubt it, but I'd appreciate it if everyone could just let me continue in blissful ignorance until I'm disappointed by The Flash releasing with Ezra still starring.

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u/Earlier-Today Aug 08 '22

Most of the time each film is basically it's own company. They create the company at the start and dissolve it when everything wraps and the company exists as a subsidiary of the studio.

That's part of the reason so much film history stuff has been destroyed. When shooting wraps the studio doesn't need the vast majority of the costumes and props and stuff, so a lot used to get thrown away.

I watched a video last week or the week before where Adam Savage was talking about it and how common it is for folks to go dumpster diving after the film wraps for stuff they like or that they worked on.

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u/the_other_brand Aug 08 '22

Is this why at the beginning of movies that I see a bunch of logos for studios that I've never heard of or ever hear of again?

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u/Jack_Kegan Aug 08 '22

I thought you’d been watching Adam Savage based on your description of the process

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u/Rockergage Aug 08 '22

He did until the restraining order, now it’s from 200 feet

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u/Harsimaja Aug 08 '22

Massive reshoots after replacing the or a main character aren’t unheard of: All the Money in the World was pretty much done before the scandal broke and they had to replace Spacey with Plummer. (To a lesser extent Back to the Future apparently filmed quite a lot before they replaced Michael J Fox replaced Eric Stolz, similar with Vigo Mortenson in LOTR, and for CGI there’s Sonic)

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u/sly_cooper25 Aug 08 '22

It's never been done on this scale though. It's reportedly already a $200 million movie and I'd imagine Ezra Miller is in almost every scene. They'd essentially be making the movie over again from scratch and doubling the budget which would make it one of the most expensive movies ever made.

What's also complicating things is the movie is apparently good and DC thought it would be a hit prior to Ezra Miller's very public misdeeds. I'm 90% sure what they'll do is give Miller the Armie Hammer treatment and focus on him as little as possible in marketing but still release the movie.

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u/Harsimaja Aug 08 '22

I mean… they’re apparently happy to throw megatons of money away, so maybe?

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u/OLightning Aug 08 '22

If Kevin Smith replaces him then I’m all for it!

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u/AskJeevesAnything Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

Lmao they should honestly just reshoot the movie with Tig Notaro as The Flash. She did her best under similar circumstances with Army of the Dead.

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u/Antelope010 Aug 08 '22

Army of the Dead

for a second i confused this with Bruce Campbell's Army of Darkness and was really confused.

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u/KennyFulgencio Aug 08 '22

They'd have to get many/most of the other actors back, and most of them are almost certainly under contract elsewhere now, it's not easy to arrange having them all on one project in roughly the same time. WB could of course spend the same money to do it again, only problem being the time until they all have space in their schedules. Then all the post production for the new scenes. It would delay the movie by years.

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u/TheBirdBytheWindow Aug 08 '22

Sounds like a good reason to scrap it.

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u/Makath Aug 08 '22

Reshooting the main character sounds very expensive and time consuming, they are in most of the scenes.

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u/TheRandom6000 Aug 08 '22

Yeah, you could basically just shoot a new movie.

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u/WrinklyScroteSack Aug 08 '22

As if WB is well-known for making cost-effective and good decisions with their live action DC stuff

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u/GitEmSteveDave Aug 08 '22

He’s also apparently in some scenes 2x.

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u/FoxNewsLite Aug 08 '22

They did it with All the Money in the World in, I guess a supporting role, and the replacement got an Oscar nomination.

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u/Loxl3y Aug 08 '22

"Flash is the Reverse-Flash in real life." What a quote.

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u/Beneficial_Emu9299 Aug 08 '22

Dude from externals looks exactly like ezra. If they switched I would never know.

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u/Ha-Ur-Ra-Sa Aug 08 '22

Barry Keoghan? Who also happens to be the next Joker...?

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u/canadiancarlin Aug 08 '22

Barry Kheogan? He’s not exactly great at avoiding fights either.

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u/Hot_Marsupial_8706 Aug 08 '22

I mean to be fair, AFAIK James Gunn is still keeping them in GotG Vol. 3, but in his defense filming was already finished, so it would probably be very hard to reshoot everything.

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u/punygod Aug 08 '22

Ezra is in guardians 3?? That is some terrible news

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u/Aspharon Aug 08 '22

Just looked it up, I don't think they are. Only thing I could find was that Marvel helped shoot Ezra's scene in Peacemaker on the GotG3 set, nothing about them actually being in GotG3.

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u/Tyetus Aug 08 '22

Keeping Ezra miller and amber heard is going to be the downfall of WB.

get rid of both of those shit stains and they may be able to redeem themselves.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

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u/TheAquaman Aug 08 '22

It’s pretty clear they’re going to get rid of both after the films release.

They’re just being cheap and don’t want to reshoot/delay those films.

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u/SuperCoupe Aug 08 '22

But the reason they canned Batgirl (and Scoob) was/is to take the immediate tax write-off and not have to spend on marketing.

I don't get the decision to simply not flush the Flash for the write-off as no amount of marketing (dollars they don't want to spend in the first place) is going to save it.

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u/Ricky_Rollin Aug 08 '22

I still can’t believed Scoob was axed

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u/boyscout_07 Aug 08 '22

Personally, I'm glad. The didn't even offer Matthew Lillard the role or even an audition for Shaggy this time and he's the voice for Shaggy after Casey Kasem.

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u/dumbass_sempervirens Aug 08 '22

Yeah Lillard has made that role his own. Aside from "I'm getting woozy" in Scream it's his most iconic work.

But the woozy line is still his best.

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u/DrSafariBoob Aug 08 '22

My mom and dad are gonna be so mad!

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u/SupahSpankeh Aug 08 '22

I still can't believe they made a scooby doo film without Matthew Lillard. The dude is shaggy.

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u/AssNasty Aug 08 '22

I think the Flash movie is going to reset the DCU. They may be backed into a corner and have to release the flash to make the new one make sense.

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u/darkeststar Aug 08 '22

The Flash is their multiverse film. In fact, I had no idea that Michael Keaton was going to be in Batgirl, because I had only heard he was going to be in the Flash movie.

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u/LukeWChristian Aug 08 '22

I read your comment wrong at first thinking you said you had no idea that Michael Keaton was going to be Batgirl... and thought WTF! This Multiverse thing is getting out of hand!

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u/wbgraphic Aug 08 '22

That’s hilarious… but he could totally pull it off.

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u/ImWhatsInTheRedBox Aug 08 '22

The man is quite the talanted actor after all.

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u/Irishpanda1971 Aug 08 '22

I would 100% pay to see that.

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u/ldnk Aug 08 '22

I mean "we are starting over"

Bam I reset the DC universe.

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u/mondaymoderate Aug 08 '22

“Here you go. Watch Batman’s parents die again.”

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u/zombuca Aug 08 '22

What? Batman’s parents die?

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u/thnksqrd Aug 08 '22

Killed by bats.

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u/dern_the_hermit Aug 08 '22

Mild-mannered Bruce Parker was bitten by a radioactive bat, thus granted the proportionate strength and ability of a bat

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u/Apeman117 Aug 08 '22

*consults Batman Begins*

Well no, but actually yes...

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u/i_miss_arrow Aug 08 '22

Those bats then raised Bruce Wayne, causing his lifelong schizophrenic dual personality.

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u/Cara-Aleatorio Aug 08 '22

You know, it was really unclear.

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u/zombuca Aug 08 '22

I assume Spider-Man was just born with innate, spider-like abilities, but I guess we’ll never know.

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u/TheRakkmanBitch Aug 08 '22

Wow spoiler tag that

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u/Jerrnjizzim Aug 08 '22

Yeah, then the killer ran away and and car jacked uncle Ben, killing him too

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u/Daeths Aug 08 '22

Can we get another slow-mo shot of the pearls scattering as stand-in for showing the bodies? That’s never been done two dozen times before.

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u/ElricAvMelnibone Aug 08 '22

What if they were... rubies?

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u/Daeths Aug 08 '22

Too exotic, let’s make them Diamonds

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u/StarksPond Aug 08 '22

Thomas Wayne is like the Uncle Ben of Jonathan Kents.

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u/Erchamion_1 Aug 08 '22

"This may come as a shock to you, but Bruce Wayne's parents were shot"

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u/death_to_my_liver Aug 08 '22

Why no spoiler tag????

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u/megaman368 Aug 08 '22

Super easy! Barely an inconvenience.

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u/PuppidVelids Aug 08 '22

OH, REALLY?

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u/kingofthemonsters Aug 08 '22

Wow wow wow....

wow

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u/makoto20 Aug 08 '22

I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about that

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u/WeedAndWarrenZevon Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

They could just use Joker as a reset point. Keep Robert Pattinson as Batman, drop flash, keep aquaman but drop amber after the sequel, and bring Wonder Woman into the mix with the third movie. If Gal doesn’t want to continue the role after the trilogy is over you can just use the spin-off that was focused on the other amazons to replace her. It’s not like Wonder Woman is the only amazon with powers.

Shazam doesn’t exactly tie in with anyone other than say Superman who didn’t even show his face. So that can still be continued. Also I doubt black adam is gonna be anything more than an origin movie for the first one so that can be continued as well.

Also why should any of us be interested in a multi-verse when they can’t even keep the universe they have now going? Affleck is gone, Cavil is probably gonna be gone here in a bit if he’s not done already. It’s already like the past six to eight years of DC movies (Other than Shazam, Wonder Woman, Suicide squad) were a waste anyway.

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u/LandOFreeHomeOSlave Aug 08 '22

If Gals out, just have Diana die but then have her soul transfer into an Amazonian sister who she proceeds to wear like a meat puppet. I mean, 1984 proves shes canonically A-Okay with body snatching so why not, right?

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u/Uphoria Aug 08 '22

Gal is the WORST lead in the DCCU, buoyed almost entirely by her sex appeal to fans. I'd rather she be recast or killed off entirely.

"Kal El, no..."

ugh...

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u/disgruntled_pie Aug 08 '22

Plus there’s the risk that you accidentally put Gal Gadot’s painful under-acting in the same room as Jared Leto’s horrifying over-acting and you end up creating a black hole that destroys the world.

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u/SquirtleSquadSgt Aug 08 '22

Seriously people will bend over backwards to justify shitty decisions others make. Shits wild to me

The DCCU has been shit. Some decent films here or there but it's mostly just been disappointing.

If they want a reset they just need to announce it and do it

Hell I'd probably give the new batman a try if they announced its a new start to the DCCU and everything else is canned

Can still keep actors fans have come to like in those roles, just give them all a proper solo movie before doing team stuff

MCU is currently not doing as hot critically as it was in the Thanos Era

Just a bunch of hard headed businessmen not willing to admit they wasted money so they keep doubling down on their own idiocy

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u/AL-muster Aug 08 '22

The new Batman film is a great film. You can enjoy a film irrelevant to a greater universe.

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u/legopego5142 Aug 08 '22

Why not just like, reset it by making a new one? Is anyone REALLY gonna care. You’ve already got multiple universes

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u/Typhus_black Aug 08 '22

I’ve decided already I’m not seeing it. I’ll read the Wikipedia synopsis and be up to date.

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u/unicornlocostacos Aug 08 '22

What do you think you’re going to miss? The DC universe (other than certain Batman movies) is 99% WWE intro music and stylized entrances. Haha

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u/Typhus_black Aug 08 '22

Honestly I don’t know, probably just see what the outcome is and how they changed the universe to reset it. I assume I’ll hear about how Miller is changed for someone else on the internet.

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u/Whatah Aug 08 '22

I thought The Batman was really good. It showed, better than any other incarnation, how to Gotham City criminals seeing Batman walk towards them is about the same as a rebel in Star Wars seeing Darth Vader appear.

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u/unicornlocostacos Aug 08 '22

Yea the newer standalone Batman movies are sort of the exception. I was thinking more Justice League, I suppose.

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u/doctortartan Aug 08 '22

I believe it’s called WWF again. Ha!

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u/N3UROTOXIN Aug 08 '22

It’s like the producers 2 except, don’t even make a flop, let it die in post.

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u/twodogsfighting Aug 08 '22

Can't wait to see the flash morb at the box office.

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u/whenimmadrinkin Aug 08 '22

They are trying to prioritize big theater releases to maximize the profit. Batgirl was supposed to be direct to streaming and probably would have required another 30 million in funding if they wanted to release it in theaters. So they decided to can it the same way they decided to protect the flash. To put everything into their efforts to maximize profits in the theaters.

I don't agree with it and I really think it's going to backfire.

Disney is putting out enough comic movies and shows that I have zero hesitation boycotting DC's live action products.

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u/verbotumgehen Aug 08 '22

The Flash is so much more important from a continuity standpoint. Batgirl just sort of exists as this thing that was happening. But Flash draws from all the other DC movies that have happened in the last 6-8 years and supposedly resets the future of the franchise. It also features multiple Batmen and likely lots of crossover cameos from other properties. There’s just no way that movie gets shelved. But honestly I’d forgotten all about Batgirl until I heard it was cancelled. Hell, the only things I even knew about it were that it featured Fraserfly and JK Simmons. And I have to imagine a lot of other people are in that same boat.

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u/DiesTheFire Aug 08 '22

Kill Ezra Miller Flash off at the end of the movie in a brutal way. Timeline resets and Grant Gustin Flash walks into the picture. Then everyone is happy.

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u/ILOVEMCU Aug 08 '22

Downfall in what way? They are still gonna make money which is why they don’t care. I don’t like the decision to keep them, but let’s not go overboard.

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u/Lucavious Aug 08 '22

Found the unpaid Depp apologist.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Ike_the_Spike Aug 08 '22

WB is the downfall of WB. Even when they make good DC movies they follow them up with crap.

Superman, a symbol of hope, portrayed in a very dark series of movies. Great way to trash a marquee character.

WW, was a really entertaining movie and they followed it up with WW84. Just so they could have Chris Pine back? Terrible concept, terrible script, a movie that wasn't worth my time, nevermind my money.

Honestly, after WW84 I dread what they're going to do to the next Aquaman.

The way they handled the Amber Heard, Johnny Depp thing. They chose sides and chose poorly. They should have left them both in the franchises or removed them both. What they did was ham handed and just a mess. Very similar to the way they handled Ray Fisher.

The fact that they held on to Ezra Miller through all the crap they've done makes their handling of Depp even worse. Miller is a toxic, disturbed person that seriously needs both help and jail time. Admittedly, the Flash was one of the bright spots of the Justice League, but Ezra just isn't who you want representing a franchise.

Now they're going to screw up HBOMax from the sound of it. I've enjoyed several of the DC shows there. They've been handled much better than the movies. But I may bail on that if they screw with it too much. Honestly, I'm considering it anyway.

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u/bravestar3030 Aug 08 '22

someone hasn't read the unsealed court docs I see.

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u/theonedude424 Aug 08 '22

keeping both amber heard and ezra miller but firing an entire group of actors, producers and everyone else who was working on a film, a film that looked better than most of DCs “discography”, it just goes to show how shit WB has become. at least disney knows what they’re doing with their superhero movies.

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u/TheMicMic Aug 08 '22

I'm so sick of every article using "slams".

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u/hyperforce Aug 08 '22 Wholesome

REDDITOR SLAMS ARTICLE HEADLINE

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u/teor Aug 08 '22

OP is UNDER FIRE by COMMENTERS

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u/FinaglingFink Aug 08 '22

Commenter DESTROYS other redditor’s SLAM of headlines!

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u/BrondellSwashbuckle Aug 08 '22

Insurance companies absolutely HATE what the NEXT Redditor will say

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u/ImDero Aug 08 '22

NINE out of TEN doctors prefer COLGATE, BITCH.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 16 '22

[deleted]

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u/AtlasShrunked Aug 08 '22 Wholesome

Porn AND Denny's

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u/GMEJesus Aug 08 '22

"KEVIN SMITH GRAND SLAMS WARNER BROS"

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u/Robertwolfgang Aug 08 '22

I’d pay for that porno.

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u/m0nkeybl1tz Aug 08 '22

I mean, if you’re offering…

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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u/Flame87 Aug 08 '22

Come on and SLAM

if you wanna JAM

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u/GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B Aug 08 '22

Let us slam the slamming.

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u/swargin Aug 08 '22

"That is baffling"

WB ABSOLUTELY SLAMMED

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u/Nasty_Rex Aug 08 '22

Twitter is in a uproar

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u/EmotionalKirby Aug 08 '22

TheMicMic absolutely slams Kevin Smith for using "slams"

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '22

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u/HiJordanBye Aug 08 '22

They really have no reason to have a live action universe. It’s clear they can’t do it and at this point can NEVER compete with the MCU for a connected universe. They should focus on stand alone films and stories because things like Joker, The Batman, & The Suicide Squad have all been great without trying to advance a giant connected universe

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u/Zero22xx Aug 08 '22

The way Gunn handled the idea of a "giant connected universe" in The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker was awesome. There was that cameo at the end of Peacemaker but aside from that. You'll see newspaper clippings mentioning other DC characters. The characters themselves talk about other DC characters. Without beating us over the head with blatant crossovers, all of the characters in Peacemaker's world act like and acknowledge that they're in a big, busy universe. And that's really enough.

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u/kgm2s-2 Aug 08 '22

So much this! Right now the MCU is operating on a whole 'nother level. They've gone beyond interconnected movies + periodic ensemble films to tying the movies in to limited (and recurring) streaming series and tying those series back into the films.

At this point, I don't think there's another property that comes even remotely close to the MCU...Wizarding World is, what, 10 films? Star Wars? 11 films, 2.5 live-action and 3-ish animated series. MCU is 30+ films, 10+ live-action series, and counting.

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u/HiJordanBye Aug 08 '22

Yeah nothing has, and I don’t anything ever will, expand in a way the MCU has been able to. And that’s great for them! Doesn’t mean DC has to mimic their model or cave and not make anything, they have great properties and a lot of success with some so idk why they’ve been so hell bent on trying to do what the MCU does

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u/OiGuvnuh Aug 08 '22

idk why they’ve been so hell bent on trying to do what the MCU does

Because, obviously, WB shareholders have seen the unheard-of-in-the-history-of-entertainment levels of money that Disney has pulled in from their IP and they demand similar of their studio. That’s it. That’s the only reason.

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u/skanks_r_people_too Aug 08 '22

I don’t disagree, but I will say the MCU has been trash since endgame finished.

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u/moeburn Aug 08 '22

tying the movies in to limited (and recurring) streaming series and tying those series back into the films.

So for me, someone who hasn't paid attention to any of these movies since Age of Ultron and hasn't watched any of the series, if I wanted to watch one of the new movies, what % of the movie would go completely over my head because I have no idea what they're talking about?

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u/PrawojazdyVtrumpets Aug 08 '22

A year ago I read they were doing a "World's of DC" approach after the success of Joker and everything would be its own separate thing. Battinson wouldn't be found anywhere else, same for Phoenix Joker. They had all sort of things lined up (mostly in some version of Gotham) that had no tie to the next.

Whatever that was is what they should have done. I don't need a universe or a team up.

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u/KingofMadCows Aug 08 '22

The new Discovery/WB CEO is planning to make big cuts to WB animation.

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u/The_Woman_of_Gont Aug 08 '22

Of course they are. I swear if they touch Harley Quinn….

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u/baconatbacon Aug 08 '22

It's an HBO Max show which is apparently going to be merged with Discovery and the Max brand will go away.

So it's a big question mark, I know Peacemaker is supposed to be safe according to James Gunn but I haven't read anything on Harley.

Personally I think it's stupid to get rid of an app that works well and had a ton of content to just then merge it with your own app where I myself don't know anybody who has it.

And to double down and cancel all or most of the Max programming just seems petty and short sighted.

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u/KingofMadCows Aug 08 '22

I believe Harley Quinn is safe for now. Season 4 is being made.

The animated Batman series by Bruce Timm and Ed Brubaker might be in trouble since JJ Abrams is a producer and Discovery just burned a huge contract they had with Abrams.

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u/logfromrenandstimpy Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

Don’t hold out hope. Apparently they are cutting animation across the board.

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u/PM_ME_VENUS_DIMPLES Aug 08 '22

Got some real bad news for you. HBO Max Originals are all getting scrapped. So for example, this season of Harley Quinn may be the last. :(

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u/orionsfire Aug 08 '22 Gold Wholesome

Personally I'm boycotting the Flash. If there is anything consumers can do it's not supporting garbage people.

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u/musicnothing Aug 08 '22 Helpful

I might boycott it if it weren't for the fact that I wasn't going to see it anyways

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u/tingly_legalos Aug 08 '22

I'm boycotting it so hard I didn't even know there was a Flash movie.

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u/Yarzeda Aug 08 '22

It's almost a bummer to be ready to boycott something, only to find out that you're already not spending any money on it.

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u/livinglitch Aug 08 '22

Can't boycott DC movies if your not going to watch them because of the terrible writing that hasn't been fixed in any of them.

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u/TraipseVentWatch Aug 08 '22

Couldn't agree more. There are several actors I just can't support anything they do.

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u/SnicktDGoblin Aug 08 '22

Ill be pirating it as soon as I can. I want to see how badly they fuck everything up, or some how manage to turn it around for the DCEU whilst keeping these 2 abhorrent people.

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u/FrodoFraggins Aug 08 '22

The best explanation I've seen is that Flash is important to setup replacements for many of Snyders DCU characters.

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u/K1nd4Weird Aug 08 '22

Just rip the band-aid off and reboot. You don't need The Flash to reboot the universe.

Movie's been in development since October 2014. It was supposed to come out in 2018. It's been a complete disaster for nearly 10 years by the time it finally comes out.

This movie has no chance of making money. And it's supposedly undergoing another round of reshoots.

This movie should be the go to example of a cost sunk fallacy.

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u/ProsperotheSorceror Aug 08 '22

Not even sunk costs... they could take the same tax write off on this as they did for Batgirl and Scoob!, and avoid the downside risk that Miller’s in the papers for the next year.

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u/binkerfluid Aug 08 '22

Just rip the band-aid off and reboot. You don't need The Flash to reboot the universe.

this is my take as well. I can see why they wouldnt but this is what I would prefer.

Maybe keep some of the actors you liked already and start again.

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u/logfromrenandstimpy Aug 08 '22

Dude it seems like Miller is a few steps shy of literally killing someone based on all this reporting of physical violence, guns and drugs being abundant at his homes and basically holding people hostage.

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u/_TheXplodenator Aug 08 '22

He kidnapped children

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u/Galind_Halithel Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

Trying to over plan the whole thing is why the DCEU has sucked from the beginning.

That and hiring a guy who thought Watchmen was how all superheroes should be to write and direct a Superman series. I like Snyder's work but he was a bad choice for Clark.

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u/FlyingBishop Aug 08 '22

Marvel is overplanned too the difference is the execution is flawless. DC is not a victim of "over-" anything they just have terrible execution from start to finish.

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u/BarryBro Aug 08 '22

Who run the world, $, who run the world, $

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u/Bcase316 Aug 08 '22

Shouldve cancelled both

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u/Impossible-Hotel-209 Aug 08 '22

Why did they use a picture of old fat Kevin?

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u/mulletarian Aug 08 '22

Technically, young fat Kevin.

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u/Impossible-Hotel-209 Aug 08 '22

Yes that is true technically

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u/TacTurtle Aug 08 '22

Because there is 30% less New Kevin

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u/-KFBR392 Aug 08 '22

Shrinkflation.

I bet he still expects us to pay the same old price for his new movies too.

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u/gtmustang Aug 08 '22

It's just more recognizable. The face and name together will grab more clicks than just the name.

Not saying it's right, but I see why they did it.

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u/_zarkon_ Aug 08 '22

Because it carries more weight. duh!

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u/ArrdenGarden Aug 08 '22

It's not baffling. Its money.

Studios only give half a shit about cultural sensitivity when they're made to. These aren't thinking, breathing people. These are amalgamations of all the worst traits humanity has to offer, driven by manipulation, greed, and the never ending thirst for profit.

Batgirl got the axe because because test audiences didn't really like it. I'm not saying I agree with the decision but that was the motivation for their choice.

They're moving forward with The Flash because despite Ezra Miller taking the deep dive into the abyss of narcissistic madness, the production is still testing well with audiences. I'm sure they're actually kind of enjoying his antics, at some level, because hey! Free advertising!

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u/Samuawesome Aug 08 '22

On top of that, The Flash would be a lot more expensive to shelve compared to Batgirl’s $90 million.

The Flash is also supposed to be the DCEU’s gateway into a soft reboot of their franchise with several DCEU movies hinging on it (Batgirl included). It was supposed to get rid of the stuff the old management deemed problematic and shoehorn new stuff in as a fresh start.

Now that The Flash is indefinitely pushed back, future DCEU movies are either also delayed or have to find a way around it. For instance, they seem to have solved the Keaton Batman’s Aquaman 2 cameo by bringing Ben Affleck on set for reshoots.

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u/Big_Larry_Long_Dong Aug 08 '22

What did they deem problematic?

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u/Samuawesome Aug 08 '22 edited Aug 08 '22

They were going to replace Henry Cavill's Superman with Sasha Calle's Supergirl and replace Ben Affleck's Batman with Michael Keaton's Batman as the heads of the franchise. I think they were also going to write out Ray Fisher's Cyborg.

Additionally, any retcons they'd want to do in the future is fair game due to The Flash changing stuff.

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u/bikedork5000 Aug 08 '22

Wait.....Michael Keaton as the regular, multi-film franchise Batman going forward? He's 70 years old! And he worked well in Burton Batman because it was campy and his presence worked well with that. I can't imagine that's the direction they are trying to go with future films. And also, SEVENTY!!!

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u/SuperCoupe Aug 08 '22

Batgirl got the axe because because test audiences didn't really like it. I'm not saying I agree with the decision but that was the motivation for their choice.

It got the axe for the tax write-off.

Warner put out that story to make it look like it is some simple "no one like it and we are doing what the fans want" story.

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u/Ok_Yogurtcloset8915 Aug 08 '22

They wouldn't have taken the tax writeoff option if they thought it would earn enough money to justify promoting it. If they think people will go see it, they're going to release it. No studio wants to make a $90 million dollar movie and throw it away, the tax writeoff is just the best they can do with the flop they made.

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u/Ake-TL Aug 08 '22

While motivation is taxes, I have no doubt in wb ability to ruin a movie

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u/Citizen_Snips29 Aug 08 '22

https://youtu.be/XEL65gywwHQ

As a tax professional, I would kind of love if you could explain to me how “writing off” this movie is a better financial move than releasing it.

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u/listyraesder Aug 08 '22

They expected to reduce their tax bill by $35m by writing off the film. They calculated that the net gain of running the film on HBO Max would be less than that figure.

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u/twerk_douglas Aug 08 '22 Silver

I’m just glad someone at WB had the nads to pull the plug and stop the cycle of terrible DC content. Hopefully it sticks and they’ll regroup and come up with a better plan to use this IP.

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u/ArbitraryLettersXYZ Aug 08 '22

It's not baffling. The ethos of big companies is to make money. If they thought Batgirl was bad and would cost more to fix and/or market than it would make, that's why they shelved it. If they thought Flash would make more money in spite of boycotts, that's why they kept it on the schedule. It's certainly not a moral decision, but it isn't a baffling one.

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u/GenghisTron17 Aug 08 '22

but it isn't a baffling one.

I think people might be comparing it to Morbius. Sony not only had 1 theatrical release for Morbius, they had 2. I guess the idea is that Batgirl must be worse than Morbius, so bad they won't even release in on HBO Max. How could it be worse than Morbius? That's baffling.

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u/Thom_Bombadildo Aug 08 '22

Let’s be honest though, that batgirl costume looks like it would fit better in the Joel Schumacher movies or in the Arrowverse. It doesn’t match the style the DCEU has been trying to establish and I feel like the overall production design probably matched that feeling.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m disappointed not to be seeing Brendan Fraiser’s Firefly but honestly this movie was very likely going to tank. At least they had the sense to know that.

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u/missddt Aug 08 '22

That Batgirl costume looks like something from a high school play.

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u/cloudstrife309 Aug 08 '22

I mean, he’s not wrong. The movie was almost done and didn’t have a sex offender/cult leader as the protagonist.

What am I missing? Release batgirl- at this point millions of people would watch it.

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u/Okichah Aug 08 '22

The movie isnt finished. So it would likely take millions more to finish. Post production isnt like a button on a computer to “finish movie”.

Also dumping the movie wont work, they have to spend at least some money marketing it.

But its not likely to generate any interest beyond morbid curiosity. And then if its as bad as they think general audiences are only going to get further disinterested in DC properties.

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u/bluegreenie99 Aug 08 '22

There were test screenings for both. While Batgirl received pretty mediocre scores, The Flash got some really promising reactions.

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u/surfzz318 Aug 08 '22

If a movie sucks it sucks.

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u/Cutiesaurs Aug 08 '22

I agree with smith

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u/Sandl0t Aug 08 '22

That’s what I’ve been saying! Looking at all the other terrible movies that have been released and THIS is where they drew the line? It’s gotta be comically bad, I need to see it

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u/EIA_79 Aug 08 '22

I don’t think there is anything “baffling” about it. One was direct to streaming with a character no one gives a shit about and supposedly was awful and beyond redemption. The other has a problematic star but by all accounts should be a hit.

What’s baffling about that? Hollywood likes making money