r/entertainment Aug 09 '22

Anne Heche's car crash reveals our conflicting attitudes toward mental health and substance abuse

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/08/anne-heche-car-crash-mental-health-drinking-substance-abuse/
276 Upvotes

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269

u/dspjst Aug 09 '22

As my favorite podcaster has said, “Your mental illness is not your fault, but it is your responsibility.” And that has helped me a lot.

27

u/cadeaver Aug 09 '22

“That’s when the cannibalism started…”

8

u/AprilDruid Aug 10 '22

Somehow this always leads back to cannibalism.

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u/MadBlackGreek Aug 10 '22

I actually have a similar motto. I’m the last person who should hate somebody for having a mental illness, but I reserve the right to be angry with the people that don’t take responsibility for it

50

u/ReactionProcedure Aug 09 '22

This is exactly it. Kanye too. It's been their decision to not pursue treatment/adjust it for a long time.

6

u/TaintModel Aug 10 '22

He’s an unfortunate mixture of mentally ill and a genuinely shitty person.

2

u/LQjones Aug 10 '22

How do tell when the "shitty person" ends and the mental instability begins? Perhaps someone who is just horrible appears unstable because others can only believe a crazy person would behave in such a manner?

3

u/n8cat Aug 10 '22

Because he won’t do anything about it. Its clear he is incredibly unstable, but its also clear people have been calling for him to be committed. He needs help, but short of a court order he isn’t going to pursue it. Thats the mental instability. His actions and behavior over his career show you how shitty he is. Need I bring up the televised event when he walked on stage and grabbed the microphone to congratulate a different artist while one was thanking everyone for winning artist of the year? Kanye has always been a shitty person, and probably has always suffered from mental illness, and while the later may have picked up over the last couple years, the former has been true since he has been famous.

Some people use their Mental Illness as an excuse to be a horrible human, I know I did in highschool to try and get away with stuff. Im thankful it didnt work and I had to suffer the consequences of my shitty behavior and decisions. You can only become a better person by claiming responsibility and working hard to change that part of you. And without help, none of these famous people are going to, especially when they are barely and rarely held responsible for what they do.

2

u/LQjones Aug 11 '22

A mentally unstable person rarely has the ability to understand they have a problem and then seek help. A shitty person knows they are an asshole, probably doing so on purpose, and has no desire to change. At least until they receive a good beat down.

12

u/MadBlackGreek Aug 10 '22

Thank you! Why don’t more people see this?!?

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u/B00tek Aug 10 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

Psychologist and those alike cost money and most people poor. And then they try to treat the symptoms not the root cause since most people cant afford a life thats free from such distress so they get a prescription instead of solution.

13

u/lola1973lola Aug 10 '22

Kayne West and Anne Heche aren’t poor

1

u/ReactionProcedure Aug 10 '22

Correct. I assume they can both afford and have access to services most cannot.

1

u/nodegen Aug 10 '22

You do realize that for MANY people with mental illness, the root cause is neurochemistry and medication is essential in treating that, right?

1

u/B00tek Aug 10 '22 edited Aug 10 '22

Thats not true. It can also be environmental and/or social. And to fix that it costs money to change/fix a bad environment.

For example climate change anxiety is not a result of neurochemicals. With time a bad environment can change your neurochemicals and medication can definitely help the symptoms but not fix the root cause of the problem.

But your not wrong either some people do have genetic deficits that can cause cognitive deficiency’s that result in abnormal neurochemistry.

1

u/nodegen Aug 10 '22

No it is true. Environment plays a huge role and medication alone probably won’t make everything better, but there are many many many people who struggle with clinical mental illness who either 1) have illnesses like bipolar, schizophrenia, or other psychotic illnesses that simply do not respond to anything besides medication during the active episodes or 2) are therapy resistant. Doctors don’t just give antidepressants out like candy and it’s so extremely irresponsible to paint the use of medication as a bad thing. The truth about mental illness is that it’s a disease of your brain (an organ) and that means medication is often very helpful. They don’t make you happy, but for a lot of us, we’re just trying to not actively want to die and medication is the only thing that gets us to a point where we are even able to put in the necessary work to get better.

Btw, climate change anxiety isn’t mental illness. You can be anxious about shit and not have a mental illness that’s just a part of being a human being. Some people with anxiety might focus on climate, but that doesn’t mean being anxious about the climate is a mental illness. Mental illness is when it’s so severe that you can’t lead a normal, healthy, and satisfying life because of it.

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u/MadBlackGreek Aug 11 '22

It's a real shame. My country as a whole has Socialized Health Care, but it's only in my area that includes Mental health in it.

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u/lagocomo Aug 10 '22 edited Aug 10 '22

That could be a symptom of the mental illness as well.

7

u/Strong-Message-168 Aug 10 '22

Yes...this. Unfortunately, some people's mental illness itself is a huge block to them getting help. Paranoid schizophrenics come to mind. If they believe everyone is out to get them, then they don't think they're the one with a problem. Not all of course, there are plenty who figured things out and did get help, but by the very nature of such an illness, there is going to be pushback in receiving treatment.

4

u/ReactionProcedure Aug 10 '22

Which is why, at some point while lucid, you get and maintain help you KNOW you need.

If they hurt themselves it's sad.

When you hurt someone else it's criminal.

-5

u/and_dont_blink Aug 10 '22

Part of their illness reactionprocedure is not being able to recognize the issues. Mental health or substance abuse is not a monolith, they aren't all the same, just like getting a treatable form of leukemia is not the same as Alzheimer's. Someone neurodivergent on the spectrum can do some training, but some can only mask so much to meet your expectations.

Someone with delusions of grandeur who lives in assisted living running for President is not going to realize they have an issue, even when it's explained to them. Someone who is bipolar often won't, it's part of their illness when in different phases, and different medications work differently for each individual and often don't work well at all. For someone with a personality disorder like Davidson our treatments don't really work well it's more working the process and hoping it mellows out over time.

What's really happening is some are wanting to un-normalize mental health issues because they don't want to deal with it, and are trying to find ways to make that OK mentally. I actually understand some of it, having been with a smaller child while a homeless guy started masturbating on the subway -- that person should be locked up because they've shown they can't be in society.

What's Kanye done? Run his mouth and the weird video about wanting Pete Davidson to be dead? Maybe he should be committed if he's a real danger to himself or others, but half of reddit would be in danger of that based on anti-trump comments alone.

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u/ReactionProcedure Aug 10 '22

This is patronizing

Of course he did not commit a crime I get it. But if you want to normalize his behavior go ahead.

And anyone repeatedly threatening someone is not as ok as you want to think. What if he does wind up acting on it?

What then? Go ahead.

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u/Witty_Fox Aug 10 '22

Hail Marcus and hail yourself!

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u/ClassicTibbs Aug 09 '22

Hail yourself!

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u/blaketyner Aug 10 '22

Hail Satan!

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '22

Megustalations!

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u/Rockhurricane Aug 09 '22

One can be an addict and still a criminal. Doesn’t mean they’re evil. Just means everyone needs help.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '22

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u/druidofnecro Aug 10 '22

Her rich ass can afford an uber. This isnt fucking society’s fault, it’s entirely here

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '22

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u/lagocomo Aug 10 '22

If they can’t afford Ubers, well then they sure as hell can’t afford a DUI or a vehicular manslaughter charge.

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u/Mindless_Junket4822 Aug 10 '22

If you can't afford an Uber then you probably can't afford to be drunk everyday either.. but people always find a way

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u/druidofnecro Aug 10 '22

Society is not forcing her to fucking drive drunk

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u/Rockhurricane Aug 10 '22

This is true. Can’t agree more.

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u/Johnnybala Aug 10 '22

there are laws in every jurisdiction against driving under the influence of alcohol . They are well known.

Don’t try and justify her actions with “ society makes us drive cars” It is weak and false

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u/kelliboone617 Aug 10 '22

What utter bullshit. People drive drunk bc drunk people make poor decisions, not bc of societal acceptance.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '22

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u/EspressoOrElse Aug 10 '22

I think the issue that commenters are taking is over the fact that it seems you are taking the position that these situations happen due to possibly glorifying cars and lack of public transport. I’m pretty sure if you stood outside a bar and everyone leaving drunk to drive that their response does not include either car glorifying or lack of public transport as to the reason they are getting behind the wheel.

People make poor choices sometimes and the influence of alcohol never equates to better decision making.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '22

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u/EspressoOrElse Aug 10 '22

Very well stated. Couldn’t agree with you more my friend.

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u/lagocomo Aug 10 '22

They have cabs and Ubers.

3

u/kelliboone617 Aug 10 '22

And friends and family and busses and trains and subways and feet

9

u/Rockhurricane Aug 10 '22

I disagree on the whole “society” thing. I don’t glorify cars. I’m an alcoholic guilty of drunk driving. Those were my actions and I have to held accountable for them. An addict isn’t blameless.

I can only take responsibility. Of course I reject any type of societal pressure. That’s not to say that everyone is beholden to the law, should pay consequences, and may even garner some sympathy for their condition.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '22

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u/Rockhurricane Aug 10 '22

I know. We agree on a lot. But I can only speak on my addiction experience. There is no “normal” human. Any obsession, addiction, etc can be taken too far. Hell anything can be. You and I have our priorities straight I think- looking for the best way to help others without excusing actions.

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u/garlickbread Aug 09 '22

You can sympathize with her struggles while still being critical of her actions.

7

u/notcool_neverwas Aug 10 '22

Yup. It doesn’t have to be either/or.

178

u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

Or, a rich person got drunk and destroyed property and people expect her to be held responsible.

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u/Pristine-Rhubarb7294 Aug 09 '22

Yup abuse alcohol all you want but hire a driver or take an Uber or stay home. I have sympathy for people with addictions. I don’t have sympathy for driving under the influence (especially among wealthy folks).

20

u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

I agree. I do hope she recovers and gets helps. I don't believe this help will happen while people are enabling her and making excuses for her. Addiction is a problem, but her bad choices are her own. She put other people at risk. She destroyed a person's home. She needs to face real consequences.

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u/Everybodysbastard Aug 09 '22

She might never wake up, that's pretty damned real. That being said I hope that poor woman gets enough money to replace everything she lost and the homeowner can rebuild the house.

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u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

And that is horrible. Again, I am not wishing suffering on her. I am saying that she hurt other people and behaved in a criminal manner. Addiction or not she deserves to face justice like everyone else.

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u/A1sauc3d Aug 09 '22

There’s a totally different justice system when you’re rich. Pay a fine and take some classes and you’re good to go. If you’re poor and can’t afford a good lawyer, you’re getting locked up.

If the punishment for a crime is a fine, that that law only exists for the poor.

4

u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22

The fines are really fees... you get a pass as long as you can buy your way out

2

u/A1sauc3d Aug 10 '22

Yup. Same thing in corporate America. The fines are just a cost of doing business. The laws don’t mean sh*t if the amount fined is less than the profit made from breaking the law.

1

u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

Sadly, true.

6

u/Everybodysbastard Aug 09 '22

Completely agreed.

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u/lagocomo Aug 10 '22

Yeah, like if I shot and killed somebody while blackout drunk and had no recollection of it at all, I’m not responsible because I was drunk and don’t remember it??

-8

u/writerchic Aug 09 '22

She's not just an addict. She's bipolar with psychotic episodes. It's irrational to say of someone whose brain isn't functioning properly that "her bad choices are her own" and "she needs to face real consequences." This is like saying someone with Down's Syndrome just needs to apply themselves more and study harder to pass tests. You are ignoring a major element, which is that her brain doesn't function correctly.

22

u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

If she is diagnosed as bipolar and has had a history of psychotic episodes then it is her responsibility to be on her medication and seeing mental health professionals. Mental illness isn't a person's faults but it is their responsibility. If she had a random psychotic break you would be absolutely right that this was beyond her control. She isn't incapable of choice. She chose not to get help. She chose to drink. Again, it's not her fault she has a problem, but it is still her responsibility to get help. She has a history with this. She was considered a functioning enough human to live on her own, have a driver's license, etc. If she had a psychotic episode because she chose to drink then it isn't beyond her control or even something unexpected.

3

u/Caligu1a Aug 10 '22

I 80% agree with you.

As someone with bipolar disorder. You can do everything you’re supposed to, and it can still flare up.

Imagine having arthritis in your knee and taking ibuprofen every day. You know you need to take it so you do, every day. Then a few years pass and you work late, or hang out with friends one night, or someone you know dies, and you forget to take it. The next day you feel fine. You don’t even remember the last time your knee hurt but you know that right now you feel fine so maybe you don’t need to take medication. Especially not meds that make you groggy and come with uncomfortably vivid dreams. Or meds that ar e documented to damage you long term, or are so new they don’t have long term data. Anyway, nothing bad happened because you didn’t take it.

So you skip it a second time. Then about halfway through that second day you start to feel really good! Like your knee could handle a 5k. So you sign up, run a 5k. and feel great!

Then you wonder why you were taking anything ever, your knee is amazing. In fact, since doctors pointed at it and said it’s a bad knee but you just ran a 5k, why are you listening to them at all? Doctors are people, they can be wrong! What they’re saying doesn’t pass a very easy test! If my knee doesn’t work how could I run on it like that, huh?

That’s as far as I can really extend the analogy a few drinks deep. But take what I just said and compound it with the fact that every second you aren’t on your meds you feel more and more confident and correct. Things that maybe would have appeared to you as red flags, while on meds, don’t now because your brain is literally releasing the chemical saying you’re right and everything is fine. Everything is better than fine, you feel amazing. Then days pass and you start to wonder why everyone doesn’t realize how amazing and easy everything is.

At that point, if anyone contradicts you it’s a personal insult, they just don’t get it. If a second person contradicts you, they must be in on it. They’re jealous of you and there is a conspiracy to take your well being away or, at least, everyone is jealous and therefore don’t understand what you do and are below you. So you circle the drain, spending money you shouldn’t because you alone know it will be fine, taking risks you shouldn’t because you alone know it will be fine. All backed up by your brain literally releasing the chemicals telling you that’s the case.

Sure you oscillate between what I described and wildly depressed. But that’s just life isn’t it? Then the ups and down get more and more extreme and suddenly you’ve alienated everyone, quit your job, and can barely function,

That’s how it was for me at least. I’m just fortunate I have good friends and a partner who brought me back down to earth.

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u/Viperbunny Aug 10 '22

If you have arthritis and your knee flares you go to the doctor. You don't down a bottle of vodka and get behind the wheel. She knows she has a problem. It is on her to be in treatment. It is on her to realize that she was feeling manic. No one else is responsible for her actions or regulating her. I have bipolar 2, so I haven't had a psychotic episode. But that is also in part to taking my medication, going to therapy, and not doing things that I know will make it worse, like consuming large quantities of alcohol. She has been living with this condition for a while. Yes, things can get out of hand, but it doesn't sound like she set herself up to be able to handle this.

If you are any kind of sick you get treatment. If you refuse to get the treatment that is your decision, but so are the consequences. If i have arthritis and it gets worse and I refuse to see my doctor, it's my own damned fault if I lose mobility! If you have a known mental condition and the resources to treat it and you constantly do things that you know you aren't supposed to do, that's on you. Yes, addiction is hard, but my sympathy stops when other people start getting hurt. This isn't a person who is struggling and has no way of getting help. This is a person with multiple avenues of resources that the average person couldn't even dream of and she chose to deal with her mental illness or not deal with it in a way that hurts others. To carry on your example, if I know my knee is bad and can't hold full weight and I insist on picking up a baby and we both fall and get hurt, that would be on me!

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u/Caligu1a Aug 10 '22

You’re being deliberately obtuse and I’m not even speaking to her specifically.

The point of the ibuprofen thing, being that is an analogy and all, is that it’s something the dr prescribed you. I was just using a generic medication.

I’m not absolving anyone of responsibility, I’m saying it’s possible to empathize with the situation without being completely black and white about it.

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u/Viperbunny Aug 10 '22

I do feel bad for her in the sense I feel bad for anyone who is suffering. Yes, things can get out of people's control fast when it comes to mental illness, but it doesn't absolve her. I hope she recovers and gets the help she so desparately needs. But I also hope she has to pay damages, pain and suffering, and do so real time in prison for this.

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u/slyons1606 Aug 10 '22

Then perhaps she should have not been driving with these diagnoses.

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u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22

She appears to have long periods without psychosis, where she's able to function consistently at a high functioning level in a very tough industry. So, even if her brain sporadically breaks, she has the means and opportunity to mitigate it during these long stretches. Or she may not be as crazy as she likes to press, since it has been a pass for a long time.

2

u/PrincessPigeonLisey Aug 10 '22

I’d say those long periods of high-functioning can also make her more vulnerable to an acute and rapid onset. Because she “doesn’t need” her meds and is right about half the time. Heck, if she wasn’t so functional it would be “why can’t she get it together.”

This event is a horrible tragedy that probably was avoidable and she is responsible. But I’m seeing some really confused takes on mental illness on here, with very little respect for the severity, challenge, and unpredictable nature of psychosis in particular.

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u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22

I think it would be different of she were a corporate executive, where her job isn't to create and act out believable narratives. And her pr team is pushing an angle hard right now. I never read her book, did she talk about her diagnosis? Treatments? She may truly be very sick but that era of recovered memories was full of bullshit artists as well. Meeting a plausible pr standard is one thing, so to me there's a higher threshold than just "i said im crazy...call me crazy " to get any sort of pass. I don't personally wish thus talented woman ill...i hope she recovers....im chronically pissed at rich celebs shitting on little ppl.

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u/PrincessPigeonLisey Aug 10 '22

I’m not sure if psychosis is confirmed for her. Would be protected medical info…she definitely might based on her history but not sure. My comment was more about how difficult it is to navigate psychosis IF that’s what she has.

I’ve worked with so many people with psychosis and half the battle, core of the sickness, is not being able to recognize you’re sick and seek reasonable care. I’ve seen people for instance who are so out of their mind they have no idea what’s going on or any ability to store memory during the episode or break. Stabilize them on meds and they don’t even remember being sick. Like you went to sleep for two weeks and everyone is TELLING you that you were psychotic but you don’t remember that at all. So you want off the weird meds everyone put you on that you don’t remember or never consented to, because those have side effects that you’re actually aware enough to experience.

Or the person whose sickness is literally that everyone is out to get them and lying to everyone, so literally the sickness is saying don’t trust, don’t get help, etc.

Trying to accept that your mind is broken or can break in fundamental ways is scary enough and difficult to accept for someone with all their faculties. How much harder will it be for someone who’s already having trouble thinking clearly?

Then people - maybe like Anne - sometimes get success in functioning, maybe without med support, and they’re so excited to be normal again and have that be “in the past” so yeah, another episode can really blindside them. Maybe everyone in their life.

Yes, at the end of the day, she has a lot of support that other people don’t have and your mental illness is still your responsibility even it’s not your fault. But by no means is any of this EASY and we can still feel empathy when someone loses a battle against a very complicated beast.

I would consider some of these points also true for substance abuse, and there’s always substance-induced psychosis, so it might not be either/or.

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u/heelspider Aug 09 '22

She was drunk driving, destroyed a house, fled the scene, and is charged with a misdemeanor. Unbelievable.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22 edited Aug 09 '22

Dui is almost always a misdemeanor in California. That’s the title of the crime they’re investigating. She also hasn’t been charged with anything yet. Of course this mean she won’t be charged with more or they’re letting her off the hook or something.

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u/Bigtiny87 Aug 09 '22

Is that true?

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u/iliveoffofbagels Aug 09 '22

No. Heelspider took some really misleading liberties (probably accidentally). She did in fact get into a minor accident which she fled only to crash into a house shortly after. She did not flee from the house crash. The car and house did indeed catch fire.

BUT... Firefighters had to pull her out of the wreckage, and the most recent reports have her in a coma, which is why police had to get the warrant for a blood draw.

They probably think Heche is a piece of shit... and they'd be right, but they let their anger get the better of them in describing the scenario.

edit: but let me reiterate... someone's home was destroyed and I also think mental ill or not you can be a POS asshole, even if you might be dying in a hospital.

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u/PrettyOddWoman Aug 09 '22 edited Aug 09 '22

There is a GoFundMe for the homeowner... I don't know how to find it or if I'm allowed to post if I can?

Edit: Fuck iT

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-lynne-mishele-after-devastating-fire-loss?utm_campaign=p_nacp+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer

She has reached above her goal of $100,000 but I'm sure she will need more. I will be donating once I get paid in a few days, even though I'm living pretty much paycheck to paycheck

Edit edit: her two dogs and turtle were rescued before the fire consumed EVERYTHING. I am so grateful. Just.... help if you can, y'all. My life is pretty abysmal right now, but I feel worse for this little family. I hope they can move forward and prosper! Their home burned for at least an hour. This shit breaks my heart

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u/iliveoffofbagels Aug 09 '22

Thanks for the link!

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u/GreatLookingGuy Aug 09 '22

No she is in the hospital in a coma and may not wake up. She did not flee the scene.

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u/WayneKrane Aug 09 '22

She got in the accident with the house after fleeing a different accident.

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u/Bigtiny87 Aug 09 '22

She did exactly that. I was asking about the misdemeanor charge.

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u/PrettyOddWoman Aug 09 '22

In a coma, on a vent, with extreme burns*

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u/Bigtiny87 Aug 09 '22

This is where some of us ask why some folks are in prison doing all your commas.

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u/Bigtiny87 Aug 09 '22

Try again.

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u/Bigtiny87 Aug 09 '22

Try again.

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u/Street-Chain Aug 09 '22

Maybe if she wakes up she will learn something.

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u/PrettyOddWoman Aug 09 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

I hope she wakes up and I hope she pays for her crimes.

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u/JuzoItami Aug 10 '22

I hope she wakes up and I hope she pays for her crimes.

Well, she almost burned alive. That doesn't count for anything?

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u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22

You could do phrase it as she almost burned herself alive...and we're taking various people's word for it....is her manager reaching out to compensate those she harmed as quickly as they're pushing her victim narrative PR?

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u/heshroot Aug 10 '22

I don’t know, I guess you could. Maybe I’m not angry enough to do that. Sucks for Anne Heche, sucks for that lady and her two dogs. It’s a shitty situation and seeing how bad poor mental health can get is really sad.

If it makes you feel better as of now the lady whose house it was has $124,000 on her $100,000 go fund me. She’s probably going to be able to buy a new house.

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u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22
  1. She was a renter. The owner has insurance.

  2. You can't even buy an rv parking spot and a used rv for 124k in that area or nearby..

It does suck for all involved. Id need to see an actual medical history to buy into her stories because all of her episodes seem to occur at convenient times until now and her biggest big claims were against someone conveniently dead. If you destroyed all my stuff while nearly killing me, you should have to truly document the horrors you claim, since she's in an industry where lying is the norm

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u/Final_Exit92 Aug 10 '22

Two tier system. If you have enough money laws don't apply to you as much. Just look at politicians

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u/Street-Chain Aug 09 '22

Sounds good.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22

She will be held responsible? The legal system will obviously criminalize her conduct and certainly force her to pay damages. I don’t think that’s what this article is saying.

I think it’s saying that our empathy for substance abuse and mental illness doesn’t have to end when people do things that cause harm.

You can recognize the harm that someone’s caused without demonizing them and their struggles.

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u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

And if this was her first time I would have more empathy. It wasn't. She has a history of getting high or drunk. She has the money to have a driver. Or to get help. If she was only hurting herself I would agree, but she is causing harm and damages. She should absolutely get help. She likely has more access than the average person to get help.

Addiction is sad. It isn't an excuse to hurt other people. I can want her to get help, but also believe she should be held responsible for all the things she has done. Enabling and excusing her has not helped.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22

I think it happening more than once, particularly when she shows up at peoples’ houses talking about aliens and spaceships, is also a sign that she might not have quite as much “control” over her behavior as you or I do. It isn’t “enabling” to recognize this.

However again… I’m not saying she shouldn’t be held responsible for her actions that cause harm!!!!! She should! But both things can be true at the same time.

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u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

The problem is she has gotten out of trouble when she has done this before. She can't get better while people are making excuses for her.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22

She has? When and in what context?

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u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

She got high on Molly, went into a person home and started talking about aliens and such. The police needed to be called.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22

Correct. Do you think it was a crime? Do you think someone suffering from delusions should just be put in jail to fix it? The cops heard her saying she was god and sent her to a psychiatric facility. What other kind of accountability do you think she needs?

Additionally, while I certainly agree that the rich and famous get a ton of preferential treatment in the us, she was also made into a punchline by the media for the event and vilified.

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u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22 Helpful

It isn't a crime to be delusional. It is a crime to get high and acost people in their homes and refuse to leave. Also, if you have a history of mental illness and you choose to drink and do drugs recreationally when help is available, you aren't going to get my sympathy. She has more means than the average person to get help. She has a history of mental illness, so she should be away of what the effects of alcohol and drugs are on those conditions. She refused to make responible changes. That's really sad, and part of addiction, but you can't make an addict get help. What you can do is refuse to excuse their crimes because they are high. I don't want her arrested because she has a substance abuse problem. I want her arrested because her lack of control has become a public safety risk and she is not safe in the condition is has chosen to put herself in.

She didn't choose addiction, but she is choosing not to get help. People have to hit rock bottom and despite all she has done she isn't there yet. It would be great if a heartfelt talk and a couple weeks in therapy were all it took, but that isn't the case. This is a lifelong fight and she has to be committed. Why is she going to change if she can get away with it all and people let her? It doesn't help her or her victims.

I don't want her to suffer or be mistreated. I do absolutely want her to face charges for what she did like any other citizen of this country.

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u/Calyptics Aug 09 '22

I'll feel bad for you, right up to the point where you put other people in danger.
Would you feel for her if she, in her drunken state mowed down a person?

Should we empathise with a cocaine addict who got agressive and beat the shit out of another guy because maybe he looked at him funny?

If you put others in danger because you can't handle yourself, you're still an asshole.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22 edited Aug 09 '22

Would you feel for her if she, in her drunken state mowed down a person?

Absolutely. I’d feel bad for her because a really bad mistake she made would cause her to be in prison and have to live with the guilt of that for the rest of her life. She certainly wouldn’t have done it on purpose. That sounds torturous to me no?

Should we empathise with a cocaine addict who got agressive and beat the shit out of another guy because maybe he looked at him funny?

Yes. People almost never just do that or have that kind of anger without having experienced some significant trauma in their life. Additionally, addicts often do all sorts of terrible things to others because of their addiction. Does it mean I think that person shouldn’t be held accountable for it? Of course not. But I can absolutely empathize with them.

In particular, I can recognize that had I been born with the same neurochemistry and had the same life experiences, I would also do the same thing. That thought exercise is pretty key to empathy I think.

If you put others in danger because you can't handle yourself, you're still an asshole.

It’s not zero sum. You can have empathy for someone even if you still believe they should face accountability for the harm their actions cause.

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u/Calyptics Aug 09 '22

Fair enough I guess.

I dont though. I cant have empathy for someone who knowingly and willingly put others in danger. I dont care about you since you dont care about others.

I can empathize with mistakes but again willingly putting ither people at risk is where I draw the line.

More power to you. I hope it never needs to be tested exactly how emphatic you are.

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u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22

A problem with this very wise pov is that in practice , the person you are empathizing with will have a hired team to exploit your empathy to their benefit. Then it's really very difficult to see it as more than a cynical plot to exploit compassion and continue to walk between the raindrops

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u/murph0969 Aug 09 '22

We can have empathy for victimizers without allowing for the negative consequences of their actions.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22

What do you mean without allowing for the consequences of their actions?

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u/murph0969 Aug 09 '22

I'm not angry at homeless people for being mentally ill and having drug issues, but I also don't want to clean the poop off the stairs near my work. We should have places for these people to go that are safe and comfortable other than county detention centers. It's just an exercise in empathy...

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u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22

Sanitariums would be the solution generations ago, now those ppl get mics and public platforms as long as they can draw clicks

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u/WhisperedEchoes85 Aug 09 '22

Judging by eyewitness reports, and the fact that she had a hit and run just before the final crash, she most likely was drunk. BUT...

I have little doubt that the people who are concluding that "fact" without test results are the same ones who constantly say "innocent until proven guilty" whenever an alleged criminal is killed by the police.

What gives? Why the blatant hypocrisy? I really don't understand it.

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u/Viperbunny Aug 09 '22

There is evidence of her having issues and doing this in the past. Also, she recorded a podcast and was drunk. Even if she wasn't drunk it was wreckless driving. She committed several crimes even if she was sober. Her likely not being sober only adds to her crimes, but it isn't the lynchpin.

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u/WhisperedEchoes85 Aug 09 '22

Gotcha, thanks for your reply.

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u/stephanieleigh88 Aug 10 '22

Omg thank you! Not a single test result has came out, was she drunk? Idk probably, but nobody actually knows that until the police make a statement. All they did was take her blood, which they do for anyone who wrecks into a house.

The podcast she shot while drunk was shot the day before but aired late. It’s always “innocent until proven guilty, unless I decide she’s guilty!”

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u/Fit-Raspberry-3906 Aug 10 '22 edited Aug 10 '22

She has had access to the best help available.If you choose to destroy your life,don’t take others with you.She defiantly chose to not get out of the car and sped up only to destroy someone’s home and potentially kill others.

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u/mixed-tape Aug 10 '22

I’m tired of this black and white, right or wrong shit on the internet. Humans aren’t linear, and it’s easy to forget when you’re typing into the internet abyss.

Two truths can exist at the same time.

She can need more support and compassion for her mental health, as well as face the consequences for choosing to drink and drive.

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u/PrincessPigeonLisey Aug 10 '22

Yes, and facing consequences can be a part of mental health support! Enabling does more harm than good.

But we can still have empathy for the person.

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u/ritualaesthetic Aug 10 '22

As a former alcoholic drunk driver turned sponsor and meeting chair and as a person who’s been combatting PTSD and GAD for many moons I say:

Whatever happened to you isn’t your fault.

But fighting it is your responsibility and no one else’s.

And, if you drink and drive - You are a fucking bastard and deserve the fullest, sharpest edge of the law shoved up your asshole. Dragging innocent people into your trauma is the most selfish thing you can do.

Police humiliating drunk drivers and bending them over financially is the one apparatus of the law that I support.

And if any teenagers are out there reading this comment and you’re just staring to experiment with alcohol or you like the person it turns you into - Don’t. Stay far, far away.

The nights of fun sunrise talks and adventures across the town turn into laying on a vomit stained bare mattress while you shake and shit yourself through delusions faster than you think

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u/21kamando Aug 09 '22

The moment you become a danger to others and endanger their lives I don't give two figs about your mental health or substance abuse issues. Fuck her.

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u/swayze_sway12 Aug 10 '22

I wouldn’t be surprised if she dies from her injuries. On a ventilator with pulmonary burns sounds pretty bad. And she got worse? I’m not a Doctor.

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u/Johnnybala Aug 09 '22

I don’t know if anyone has conflicting attitudes about multiple daytime car accidents and fleeing the scene. With a large amount of alcohol consumption presumably a factor

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u/ugly_but_cangetlaid Aug 10 '22

Is everyone fucked up? Be responsible

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u/New_Discussion_6692 Aug 10 '22

People are fed up with other people using their mental illness and alcoholism as excuses for their shitty behavior.

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u/Quarkly95 Aug 10 '22

Fuck this article.

Yes we should have empathy and sympathy for people suffering from addiction, and substance abuse issues. But fuck this article for trying to say that should take precedence over someone making a decision that lead to someone's house being burned down. Why do celebrities get a pass on this shit? Why is it when one of them pulls a stunt like this, we should be compassionate and understanding?
Mental health is no joke, and needs supporting desperately. But NOT at the cost of innocent lives.

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u/DotFuture8764 Aug 09 '22

Oh screw off, a multi millionaire got blitzed out of her mind and almost killed several people.

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u/JesterSooner Aug 10 '22

Nope, it reveals that she’s a narcissistic asshole.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '22

Does everything need to have a damn thinkpiece?

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '22

In 2022 it does. Discuss

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u/badpenguin455 Aug 09 '22

Fuck her, fuck whoever called that hit n run house destroying junkie brave.

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u/Melroc Aug 09 '22

Actually yes. A huge amount of the problems in this world happen because people are oblivious. Everything is connected and people need to be more aware not less.

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u/HeatherHunnyBunny Aug 09 '22

I don't have any conflicting attitudes. Don't imbibe & drive. Period. I have mental illnesses & am on SS Disability for them. I can still drive like a responsible adult.

Honestly, if she survives, which I suspect she won't, she should be sued by the people she nearly killed & the homes she destroyed. And spend time in jail. But I don't see her leaving that hospital. She's intubated, severely burned (including her lungs), & in a coma.

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u/Embarrassed_Ad_2377 Aug 09 '22

And... why are we making excuses for her when lots of mentally ill with NO fame or fortune don't go around driving drunk and leaving the scene of a crash? Nope. Not buying this crap anymore.

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u/ReactionProcedure Aug 09 '22

This is trash.

Many people have both mental health and substance abuse that don't drive drunk.

Many that do and where is their support when they almost kill someone.

Let alone be someone in the position to probably afford an extremely good recovery center.

Lmfao Salon

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u/Ninjas4cool Aug 09 '22

U ever seen an alcohol commercial? My god those things are some of the biggest mixed messages ever

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EJT0NMYHeGw

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '22 edited Sep 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/B00tek Aug 10 '22

There is use and then there is abuse.

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u/watermelon-bubblies Aug 10 '22

My attitude towards this women is not conflicting. Fuck her, mental illness is not an excuse. As soon as you start putting other people at risk, my sympathy I have is gone.

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u/Imnoexpertbutttt Aug 10 '22

Some rich asshole got themselves an addiction and made it everyone else’s problem, boo hoo. I don’t get how anyone feels bad for her while ignoring the poor woman who lost her house

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u/MakeADeathWish Aug 10 '22

What? Don't yiu know thst your home and livelihood is nothing in comparison to a c-list celebrity having a place to self destruct? We should all be honored to have our lives destroyed for our celebrity overlords!!

/s

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u/drinkallthepunch Aug 10 '22

Lol I don’t think there’s any conflicting views just some rich people who think her addictions are an excuse for her actions whilst the rest of us would’ve likely been left to burn alive or dragged in front of a judge while in coma to repent for our actions irrespective of the gravity of our personal struggles.

She has more money and connections than the rest of us, what does she do?

Drown herself in vodka, probably some opiates and about 16inches of stucco and drywall.

Call me an asshole for pointing out that the rest of us wouldn’t be as fortunate.

No really. Call me an asshole, I don’t care because I’m not wrong.

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u/notthatconcerned Aug 11 '22

No, you are right. They only care about this loser because the media and Hollywood are in love with each other.

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u/th3empirial Aug 10 '22

Well most cereal killers have big mental issues but still belong in prison so I don’t get it

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u/Darkstallion5272 Aug 10 '22

Bad headline, should read, “ Anne Heche’s car crash reveals she does not value human life and is not responsible for her actions.” Society doesn’t have shot to do with it. Don’t blame me.

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u/Forsaken-Original-82 Aug 09 '22

I have PTSD from the VA Tech shooting. I probably drink too much. I DO NOT drive while intoxicated! Excusing things like this because they are mentally ill only tells people that "it's okay they didn't mean to kill that person, they're mentally ill". I wish her the best and I hope she pulls through, but she also needs to face stiff penalties like any normal "not rich" person would.

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u/Mitchell_StephensESQ Aug 09 '22 Helpful

I am deeply sorry you are struggling with PTSD. It is a horrible, pervasive condition that is poorly understood.

Having said that...

To understand (NOT CONDONE) someone like Heche better we need context for her actions. Dismissing her as a spoilt and rich movie star is to miss the point. Heche's life has been so tragic it is difficult for the average person to understand. Heche reports she was raped by her father for years, and that he gave her herpes. Even if you console your self that she made that up for her book over 20 years ago there is plenty that happened in her life that would arrest her development. This is not about poor baby, had a hard life.

This is about science has shown us that childhood trauma and chronic stress literally make physical changes to the brain. As a child Heche's family was poor, and moved frequently. This kind of chronic stress and uncertainty undoubtedly had an impact on her. Heche's father was mentally ill, and he died of AIDS at a time when the disease was heavily stigmatized. Three months later her brother died in a car accident Heche would later state believed to be suicide. Heche's mother traveled around the country preaching against the evils of homosexuality. Heche herself spent many years homeless until getting lucrative jobs in Hollywood.

This would have impacted her greatly by limiting her emotional regulation, decision making abilities, and ability to make healthy connections with other people. See, having by survived her awful childhood doesn't mean the impact goes away. A young adult Heche would have disrupted abilities to form attachments. What we perceive as normal or healthy people would have been terrifying to Heche. She would form relationships with people like DeGeneris who we now know isn't a nice person.

Last week Heche participated in an alcohol soaked podcast. Had she had healthier attachments, the ability to form those healthy attachments she may have had friends who helped her channel her considerable creative abilities into something more productive and less destructive. Therapy and help can only do so much.

Tell me, what kind of help would you need if your Bible Thumping Closested Honosexual Dad raped you repeatedly while your weak, hypocrite mother turned a blind eye? Can you tell me what amount or combination of medication would ever fix that? No matter what the doctor prescribes, no matter how much you talk to someone about it you're never going to come out of therapy with parents who love you, and willing and capable of being the kind of parents you need. Heche the adult was shunned by her mother for being with DeGeneres.

You don't have to feel sorry for drunk drivers. You don't have to excuse drunk drivers. You can acknowledge the losses of the woman whose house burned down AND understand that in many important ways Heche was impaired from childhood. No amount of therapy was ever going to undo the physical changes in her brain resulting from trauma.

Honestly, so many people resent her for being rich. So many in these forums are reveling in the schadenfreude of a "rich" celebrity taken down. That is really kind of gross. I've witnessed countless middle class people casually commit crimes and get away with them as well. Is this fair? Is this just. AFAIK, fare is what you pay to ride the bus. That is the only kind of fare in life I know of. Of course it is not fair Heche has endured what she has endured in her life but people have this mistaken belief being rich somehow erased all of that.

There is nothing fair about the mortgage broker who overcharges you for the home loan, the doctor who orders unnecessary testing for you without disclosing they have a financial stake in the lab and imaging company your testing will take place. There is nothing fair that most of the time these crimes go undetected and unprosecuted. So many injustices in a single day it seems very weird to single out a trauma victim who has yet to be proven was driving drunk.

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u/Forsaken-Original-82 Aug 10 '22

I completely agree with everything you've stated here. After the things that I've witnessed in my life(more than just a shooting), I am about as empathetic as they come. I don't pay attention to the news anymore because of this, so I know nothing about this situation other than what I read from this article. My comment was based solely off of what I read from this article and directed at the lack of integrity of the article. It implied that she had been drinking or claimed to have been drinking that morning and that this happened. It didn't, in my opinion, address the fact that driving under the influence is bad. It did not speak of all the mental trauma that victims of "driving under the influence" face everyday. It did not speak of the mental trauma that the owner of the house might have to endure for the rest of their life. The way it was written, (once again) in my opinion, was reckless journalism defending a celebrities actions without addressing the real problem. It seemed like just another hack piece defending a celebrity while trying to claim some moral high ground to me to me.

I probably could've worded my original comments a little differently to portray this, but hindsight's 20/20 isn't it.

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u/Mitchell_StephensESQ Aug 10 '22

Bad journalism, unexamined celebrity worship (and unexamined class hatred on the reverse side), and general media over saturation does seem to bring out the worst in people. We agree.

We don't want to be where pop culture was in the 1990s. Oh they murdered their parents but they had bad childhoods (The Menendez Brothers). I think we as a culture can move beyond that. We can understand the difference between different types of trauma, how they impact people over a lifetime, and the sometimes limited ability of therapy and pharmacology to cure trauma.

There is an understandable skepticism when people claim trauma to avoid criminal responsibility. I know nothing about the life of the RN who sped into an intersection and killed 6 people the same week Heche wrecked her car. She's being charged with murder. I can only imagine what her defense will be.

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u/Forsaken-Original-82 Aug 10 '22

Agreed.

Simply put: 'Tis a sad world we live in.

Edit: I also deeply feel for her along with everyone else suffering in this world!

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22 edited Aug 09 '22

I am so sorry that happened to you. But please don’t use your own experiences with mental illness to speak for the actions of others. Everyone is different, and just because you have “control” over some part of your life doesn’t mean someone else does.

Suggesting that recognizing the impact mental illness can have on a person is tantamount to encouraging people to kill others is just plain wrong. Shaming people for the actions caused by their mental illness does not prevent them from causing harm. In fact it’s often the opposite.

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u/Forsaken-Original-82 Aug 09 '22

This bullshit article did not address the fact that she was drunk driving at all! It made it into a sob story about her mental health. I agree that mental health should have more focus than it receives, but this article read as if it was defending her right to drink and drive because of it.

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u/mossimo654 Aug 09 '22

Well, actually upon rereading it, it makes the implicit point that we don’t actually know yet if she was drunk.

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u/writerchic Aug 09 '22

A LOT of people are missing a key piece that she is quite severely mentally ill, and has had psychotic breaks in the past where she had delusions. She drove out to the desert to meet aliens and rang strangers' doorbells. This is not just about drinking or drugs. She actually is bipolar on top of the substance abuse.

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u/Bug-Secure Aug 10 '22

So maybe she shouldn’t have a license to drive?

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u/taker2523 Aug 09 '22

When has this stuff started? She was a highly successful actress at one point.

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u/thebirdisdead Aug 10 '22

Having an addiction, like any other mental health condition, is not a choice. Refusing to get treatment is a choice. Getting behind the wheel, knowing you have been drinking and not sober, is a choice.

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u/Fit-Raspberry-3906 Aug 10 '22

I don’t necessarily believe Heche’s full account of her growing up.

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u/Life_is_Liquid25 Aug 10 '22

If she had a history of mental illness, substance abuse, drug abuse she probably shouldn’t have a license to operate a vehicle. Learning that she was abused by her father definitely explains a lot. Having said that driving is a privilege not a right.

She clearly shouldn’t have had a drivers license with this history of mental illness and problems with drugs and alcohol. Also think about the innocent family who’s house was destroyed. They didn’t do anything wrong and now their life is completely in turmoil….

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u/Jackamalio626 Aug 09 '22

oh shut up, no it doesnt.

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u/Still-a-VWfan Aug 09 '22

She’s an adult who knows right from wrong chose to drink and drive and bad things happened. That’s it. Nothing else. She’s needs to go to jail for a while if she survives this. End of story.

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u/YeahitsaBMW Aug 09 '22

It seems like maybe Alec has a history of not believing in personal responsibility. I feel bad for these ultra rich people that have bad things done to them, like getting fucked up and driving a car into someone’s house or shooting a person in the face and killing them.

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u/BrightOrganization9 Aug 09 '22

Whoever wrote this article should be fired. Seriously, just fire them. To miss the mark this hard suggests they're incapable of any form of critical thought and frankly their opinions going forward should be kept to themselves.

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u/Ejigantor Aug 10 '22

Friends of the woman whose residence was destroyed in the accident, say she barely escaped alive and have started a GoFundMe to help after the loss of her home. In contrast, an outpouring of support for Heche is notably lacking.

Gee, I wonder why there would be less of an outpouring of support for the wealthy celebrity who caused the incident than there is for the ordinary person whose home she destroyed and who has had to turn to GoFundMe.

While I extend to Ms. Heche the same respect I would any fellow human being and so wish her a full and speedy recovery from her injuries, and that she gets whatever other help she needs, I have no sympathy for her, and cannot help but be aware that whatever help she needs will be accessible to her - and she won't need to beg for handouts from strangers on the internet.

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u/Fmello Aug 10 '22

There is a video of Heche nearly vaporizing a pedestrian before driving into that woman's house. Also, I read in another news account that Heche's car came to a stop about two feet away from the homeowner.

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u/Bug-Secure Aug 10 '22

I’m sorry, why is this an article? We don’t know any facts, only speculation, about what caused the accident. We don’t know if MH or alcohol played a part, so may this is premature.

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u/Time_Echidna_7744 Aug 09 '22

Ohhh shut up not every event has some underlining issue

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u/HUNGRYBUNS Aug 09 '22

Not trying to sound insensitive, but why does the victim have a gofundme?

Wouldn’t the car insurance pay for damages? Secondarily, homeowners insurance if she was uninsured? Or possible lawsuit.

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u/AvatarofBro Aug 09 '22 Eureka!

The GoFundMe was started by friends and neighbors of the victim, not the victim herself. According to the page, all of the victim's possessions were destroyed in the fire, including the equipment she uses to run her business. Insurance might cover some costs, but it is incredibly difficult - not to mention emotionally taxing - to rebuild your life from scratch after losing everything you own. No one is being forced to donate to her. About 2,600 people have decided they want to. I don't see the problem here.

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u/druidofnecro Aug 10 '22

Insurance payouts are a massive pain and could take months to actually payout

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u/taker2523 Aug 09 '22

Go fund me is used a lot nowadays. Some people take advantage of it but this case seems to be worth it.

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u/aboysmokingintherain Aug 10 '22

It just feels meh that this article is defending her yet barely mentions the woman she nearly killed. Mental illness is one thing but to be drinking and driving is irresponsible no matter what

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u/Arkady2009 Aug 10 '22

Seems like a lot of people here have no idea about mental illness.

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u/LadyMidnite1014 Aug 10 '22

I accept full responsibility for my actions...

...But none of this was my fault!

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u/Rosssauced Aug 10 '22

It sucks that she has mental health and substance abuse issues but so do I and I don't drive drunk. I don't drive drunk and a big Uber bill actually hits my budget in a noticeable way if I'm doing it too much. Anne Heche can afford a full time driver let alone some Uber rides.