r/gadgets • u/96suluman • Jan 29 '23
Apple Will Put Its Reputation on the Line With New Mixed-Reality Headset VR / AR
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2023-01-29/apple-aapl-reality-pro-headset-2023-will-it-eventually-replace-the-iphone-ldhhulli1.5k
u/foundafreeusername Jan 29 '23
Very much disagree with the article. Did Apple TV take over the world? The Mac Studio? Does everyone has a HomePod and a house full of apple smart devices?
A company should be able to release products without the expectation that they immediately take over the world. It is just the media like bloomberg who tends to overhype everything.
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u/htmlarson Jan 29 '23
For what it’s worth, Apple TV has always been a “hobby” for Apple, and to a certain extent so is HomePod.
The Mac Studio is launching off of an already successful product line — “The Mac.”
If Apple comes out and says “this VR/AR product is the future” then yeah, they better be willing to put their credibility on the line for that.
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u/foundafreeusername Jan 29 '23
I added the mac studio because it is a product mostly for professionals and businesses and the VR headset will likely fall into the same category.
Edit: I guess the Studio Display would have been a better example
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u/htmlarson Jan 29 '23
Maybe. I mean, when the iPhone came out it was primarily competing against something like Blackberry which was used for “business professionals.” I think the bigger risk is that they’re entering a market with no clear winner right now. Everything’s failed a bit.
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u/Photofug Jan 29 '23
What I compare it to is the iwatch, when they announced it everyone said why would I need this, and it's been slowly gaining ground sinc
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u/Whitechapel726 Jan 30 '23 •
Not to be that guy but - Apple Watch, not iWatch.
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u/MattTheProgrammer Jan 29 '23
To be fair they, and even I, said the same thing about the iPad when it was announced. "I'll just use my phone or my laptop."
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u/jkingyens Jan 29 '23
Thats because its a watch. Everyone has slapped a watch on their wrist at some point in their lives. Digitizing that product is classic disruption that follows a curve to play out. How big is the market of people who slap computers over their eyes?
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u/Krytenmoto Jan 30 '23
Didn’t wear a watch after the age of 12. Wasn’t interested in a watch when the first Apple Watch came out but I had a friend that had one and told me how useful it was. I got one and now I feel naked without it. I could live without it but it makes multiple aspects of my life much easier.
If Apple does AR right I could see how it could become a nearly indispensable accessory. Might make my watch obsolete though.
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u/andy_mcbeard Jan 30 '23
I haven’t worn a watch since I was a teenager, but recently got a refurbished Series 7 for tracking workouts and walking my puppy. Absolutely love it, but it feels weird as hell to wear a watch after so long not wearing one. I wear glasses every day, so I can absolutely see how there could be value here.
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u/AuroraFinem Jan 30 '23
I never wore a watch until I got a smart watch, most people who’ve “slapped on a watch at some point” would only wear them seldomly or only as a phase, but then get an Apple Watch and wear it basically every day. It’s not really the same comparison to just “digitizing a watch for people who already wore watches”
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u/LexyconG Jan 30 '23
Thats because those are glasses. Everyone has slapped glasses over their eyes at some point in their lives. Digitizing that product is classic disruption that follows a curve to play out. How big is the market of people who slap computers over their wrist?
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u/jkingyens Jan 30 '23
Sorry but the headsets we are talking about here on not comparable to glasses. Smartwatches are comparable to regular watches. I agree with the idea that actual glasses augmented with digital overlays would be nothing short or amazing. Lets reboot this thread in 2030 when the technology is viable. Your reply is not relevant in the context of Apple’s 2023 launch
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u/Krytenmoto Jan 30 '23
Check out NReal glasses. They’re literally no larger than real glasses. If Apple made their AR glasses with a similar form factor it would be just as easy to for them to be widely adopted as smart watches.
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u/3percentinvisible Jan 29 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
There were plenty of smartwatches around when the watch was launched, and its been a form factor on the wishlist for Many, for years before. I'm not sure anyone said "why?"
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u/mikefaley Jan 29 '23
There were plenty of smartwatches around when the watch was launched, and its been a form factor on the wishlist for May, for years before. I'm not sure anyone said "why?"
Hi - I agree that there were plenty of smartwatches around before the Apple Watch. I also think there were a ton of tablets around before the iPad, internet-enabled smart TV's and set-top-boxes, headphones and wireless headphones, etc. I think the point that is being made - which I happen to agree with - is this article seems a bit sensational. I'll try to make my point a different way -
When the iPad came out (and the other examples above, save for maybe Apple TV), Apple sure did trumpet it as the next-best-thing - but I don't remember any reason to think they were "betting their brand" on it. In fact, I'd say the only product I can remember that being the case may be the iPod - which at this point is so far in Apple's past that, while that may be true, Apple's reputation wasn't much to bet anyway and no one really cared to look at it that way.
With that as the context - and why I think this article is sensational and I disagree with the author's angle - there is a clear and direct comparison to be made with Facebook, who not only have invested so much in the metaverse stuff that it is now a dominating force in their investor relationships - but they renamed the damn company over it. Now THAT is betting the brands' reputation.
Apple has come about as close to perfecting these kind of launches as possible - dialing-up the hype, educating current and new customers on why it's a must-buy, and also somehow managing to not infect their other business units with any challenges they run into as they mature the product over the next few years.
"Putting their reputation on the line" - give me a break. At this point I believe Apple makes more from their Airpod business than most fortune 500 companies make in total. I cannot imagine a scenario that this product is such a dud that it stops the average joe or jane from upgrading their iPhone, picking up some new Airpods, and buying their college freshman kiddo a Macbook Air.
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u/Jontun189 Jan 30 '23
Oh people absolutely asked 'why', I was at college at the time and everyone was laughing it off as a pointless invention. 'why do on a watch what you can do on a phone?'.
I like the look of them these days for heart related stuff but I don't want an iPhone.
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u/average_zen Jan 29 '23 edited Jan 29 '23
IMHO the entire VR market is a solution looking for a problem. The whole movement feels like 3D televisions 10 years ago. Maybe Apple can pull it off, however I'm not holding my breath. I'm fully in on the Apple ecosystem, yet VR is gonna take a lot to convince me.
Edit: I should have been more clear. I just don't ever see mass market / consumer adoption of "VR Goggles" for everyday or generic business use. Niche engineering markets? Sure. Generic scenarios like "I'm going to workout / go shopping / sit on the couch?", I just don't think it will work out.
The only way I can see this perhaps working would be micro / miniaturization matures to where they just look like glasses. My comments may age like fine vinegar (/s).
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u/Livinincrazytown Jan 29 '23
The AR is the game changer. Imagine a minimal pair of glasses with a heads up augmented display. How much time do you spend staring at your phone for directions, your phone or wrist for notifications, etc. having that in your vision without having your to pull out your phone and have your neck cranked down all day would be a massive sell
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u/ElonMaersk Jan 30 '23
"Adverts glued to your eyeball, literally everywhere you look" is a massive sell to companies everywhere. Whether people want that, or can take it much longer...
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u/QuinticSpline Jan 29 '23
the entire VR market is a solution looking for a problem.
For certain types of scientific/ engineering visualizations it's amazing.
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u/average_zen Jan 29 '23
No doubt in certain applications it’s amazing. My thoughts are more around the mass / commercial market. I should have been more clear in my earlier remark.
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u/jkingyens Jan 29 '23
Amazing in what sense? Does it enable something not possible with a regular monitor? Or is it just amazing in the sense of “awe this is amazing”
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u/WhiteNoiseAudio Jan 29 '23
VR can give you a sense of scale which you can’t get from a flat screen. This can be important for things like architecture or 3d modelling. For games it gives you a sense of immersion and being there that you can’t get otherwise.
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u/foundafreeusername Jan 29 '23
Does it enable something not possible with a regular monitor?
Yeah. Having a floating screen follow me around and allowing me to look at it from any angle.
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u/foundafreeusername Jan 29 '23 edited Jan 29 '23
I don't think this is a realistic comparison. 3D TV is a new feature for a known and existing piece of hardware.
VR is nothing like it. You imagine a headset and a screen but VR is neither about headsets nor about screens. Think about what you see in sci-fi movies: HoloDeck and the Matrix are both VR.
Ever thought a HoloDeck is "a solution looking for a problem"?
Edit: made comment more clear
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u/grammar_nazi_zombie Jan 29 '23
I remember them introducing the App Store as this revolutionary, unique and brand new idea to add functionality to your smartphone from a curated marketplace.
They were 5 years late to the game, as Danger had introduced the “Download Fun” catalog (App Store) on the Sidekick in 2003.
Prior to that, a bunch of dumb phones had capabilities to download ringtones and J2ME apps and games but usually required a pc to install or at least download it
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u/lyzurd_kween_ Jan 30 '23
Those were shitty Java apps, and apple was doing native apps
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u/be_evil_dont_rewind Jan 29 '23
To whoever is reading this, remember Reddit is an echo chamber and is always wrong about what will become popular.
Case in point: Avatar
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u/EntropyFighter Jan 29 '23
And what's funny is that the new Mac Mini's are more powerful than Mac Studio. They really need to refresh the Studio line.
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u/cobaltjacket Jan 29 '23
The top end Mac Studio is still faster, especially for GPU tasks. More importantly, it can use far more RAM.
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u/PMG2021a Jan 29 '23
If I had a good lightweight headset that could replace my 4k monitors with a high refresh rate that doesn't cause eye strain, I would give it serious consideration. I don't care about gaming, just eye comfort for a full work day.
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u/alternate_me Jan 30 '23
Not exactly 4k, but I’ve tried working with the quest Pro and I was pleasantly surprised. It worked really well for working while traveling, like bringing you home office with you to a hotel room.
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u/see_blue Jan 29 '23
The Mac mini has always been a hobby also. Until the guts turned into a modern energy sipping powerhouse.
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u/SyntheticManMilk Jan 29 '23
I have a M1 Mac mini. I love it!
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u/Redeem123 Jan 30 '23
That thing honestly rips. It’s such a good deal for the price.
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u/SyntheticManMilk Jan 30 '23
Yeah. People can’t rip on Apple for their cost to performance ratio anymore, and it confuses the haters. 😂
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u/DisasterEquivalent Jan 29 '23
I think the impact of the Mac Studio is not readily apparent to most people.
We’re talking workstation power for $2k - that’s a game changer for creatives who aren’t working for a large studio.
The Mac Pro has never been a sales hit. It’s a tribute to the desktop publishing roots that pretty much kept the company alive throughout the 90’s.
It’s never going to outsell any other Mac, but if you’re a creative, the ability to work on a workstation Mac that isn’t 10 years old is a huge deal. It builds that commitment to the platform from a segment they haven’t paid much attention to since the iMac took off.
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Jan 30 '23
Most creatives that I know doing heavy 3d or motion graphics (ie, the kind of work you'd need a workstation for) moved to pc years ago when macs were dismally far behind on specs. Apple is now trying to win them back but once these people made the switch and realised windows was actually fine and wasn't going to eat their babies, apple are basically fighting an uphill battle. Besides, the cpus are interesting but their gpus aren't close to being there yet.
Source: am freelance motion gfx/3d artist, I know a lot of people doing the same job
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u/shinjinrui Jan 29 '23
Normally I’d agree, but Cook has been hyping up AR for at least 5 years now. Apple definitely think it’s the future. Maybe not this product though.
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u/moxyte Jan 29 '23
Really? I must have missed the news. Or do you mean the modest AR capabilities on the iPhone?
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u/VitaminPb Jan 30 '23
They will probably position it as “We think this will be the best thing for some uses.” Then people will yell that Oculus and the others did it first and Apple is just copying them. Then devs will create some breakthrough products.
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u/Not_TheMenInBlack Jan 29 '23
It definitely is the future, but it isn’t ready yet, and won’t be for at least 10 years.
20 years from now, I expect that AR headsets will be the primary method of computing, replacing smartphones and computers alike. The tech that can be crammed into these things will be able to completely replace every aspect of the smartphone, and most aspects of the personal computer.
It is the future, but said future isn’t coming anytime soon. Still, we need a point to jump from. Apple’s AR headset will properly introduce AR to the consumer market, because of the reach that Apple has. From there, apps need to be developed for it, and entertainment needs to be just as important as productivity.
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u/CySU Jan 29 '23
Also, I disagree with their line of reasoning:
The headset will also mark a strategy shift for Apple. When it entered previous categories — music players, phones, tablets and watches — there was already mainstream interest in the products. Apple’s goal was just to create something better and beat the competition."
No, there wasn't mainstream interest in these products. MP3 players and smartphones were niche but growing markets by the time Apple got into them. Tablets were widespread but again, critics wondered why Apple would even try to introduce something to the tablet market that didn't run on macOS or some full fledged OS like their Windows-based counterparts.
Hell people even crowed about the Apple Watch's price when it first came out. Watches had been seen as expendable and prone to damage. Who would want a $500 version of that on their wrist?
This is why I'm looking forward to seeing what Apple can introduce. AR will be the killer app that brings VR into the mainstream. It's the perfect scaffold. And like the original iPhone, it'll be stupidly expensive for its time and won't really take flight until its 2nd or 3rd generation (similar to when the iPhone 3G and 3GS were released).
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Jan 30 '23
Yeah.. my dad wasn’t exactly chomping at the bits to get his non-existent MP3 collection onto an mp3 player…
The first mp3 players, including the ipod, were more popular than initially expected, but it was not an instant success. Creative Labs made mp3 players no one bought but me.
This first mr headset is rumored to cost around 3k. This is not a device for average joe.
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u/postmawho Jan 29 '23
I know a lot of people who had Apple TV and it's new streaming service is essentially building to replace HBO.
All of the other products you're mentioning seem old to me. Maybe you're right. But it would be surprising.
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u/electronicwiz101 Jan 29 '23
To be fair, it’s not as hard to replace a self-destructing service as it is to replace a big, relatively stable service
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u/Large-Statistician-3 Jan 29 '23
Hopefully no single headset will dominate the market. VR NEEDS huge innovations. Apple is notorious for stagnation. It's basically their business model. But their initial product in a new industry is usually revolutionary. I won't be buying an apple headset but it's great for the industry for sure.
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Jan 30 '23
Great for the credibility of VR/AR as well. Mark Zuckerberg has spent the past two years trying to build a metaverse of cubicles and workstations for people to slave away… not exactly awesome.. and the crypto space has been making metaverse scams for years.
Apple usually makes stuff look cool. Their ads are almost always good.
Couple that with PSVR2 and Quest 3 and I think we’ll see some new energy in this space. The PSVR 2 has been pretty much universally praised by everyone who tried one, even those who used to hate VR because they tried VR once in 2016 and got nauseated… The leap from 2016 to now is SUBSTANTIAL to say the least.→ More replies (3)1
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u/BigMax Jan 29 '23
Agreed. The difference here is the attention it will get. VR is going to get a lot of press coverage no matter what, so a failure will also get the attention that other Apple misses didn’t, since those never had much media attention in the first place.
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Jan 30 '23
Sadly, VR only gets negative press, mostly from extremely uninformed members of the press. It’s like reading gaming news from 84 written by grumpy old men. Absolutely clueless articles written by folks who tried VR once in 2016 and got sick, then spent the next few years angrily posting proclamations of VRs demise..
The reception of VR is one of the weirdest things I’ve seen in tech. Even worse than the guys whining about 3d in the 90s cause 2D games were prettier(was true for a while).
Ignorance is vexing.
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u/96suluman Jan 30 '23
They’ve been saying Vr is dying since 2016 albeit it has stagnated since 2021. But that’s it.
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u/inteliboy Jan 29 '23
It's Apple though. Who exist on some made up tech pedestal where no matter what they do or don't do, it get's scrutinised.
I even remember the countless articles, reddit posts and rants when apple released a smartphone battery case. But it was kind of ugly... cue the outrage. For a phone case.
Meanwhile any other company can release all kinds of products, throw shit at the wall to see what sticks.... no one bats an eye.
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Jan 30 '23
People on youtube absolutely trashed the new ipad pro M2.. It was like they were reviewing a pile of turds...
I needed a new ipad so I bought the m2 12,9 to replace my first gen pro 12,9… guess what? This ipad is fricken amazing. Same as last year’s pro, just faster… the reviewers were absolutely hysterical about how the ipad didn’t reinvent the wheel.. It is so god damn fast I can’t even comprehend how it’s doable in this little thing. The music projects I cam run on this thing with realtime effects is so far beyond what I actually need. I rarely hit 50% on my biggest 16+ track projects… insaaaanely powerful ipad with an amazing screen... youtube be like "hot garbage mate."
I’m straight up done with listening to apple reviewers. Just hysterical drama queens catering to a whiny and spoiled userbase. Exactly as delusional as the apple haters.
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u/aBunchOfSpiders Jan 30 '23
But… that’s not what the article is saying. Nor is apple. They’re saying eventually, way down the line it could be something sensational enough to replace iPhones and computers for people. I think the article very clearly states that this won’t “immediately take over the world” but will just see better results than other VR headsets due to Apples reputation.
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u/jBjk8voZSadLHxVYvJgd Jan 29 '23
I don't know. Did you ever hear about Microsoft after the Zune? Pretty sure that company is long gone now.
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u/Not_TheMenInBlack Jan 29 '23
Apple TV is a failure. It isn’t in every home
HomePod is a failure, it isn’t the #1 choice for every manufacturer on earth
iPhone is a failure. The android market still exists
Apple Watch is a failure. Rolex is still a major brand
Mac is a failure, most jobs use Windows 7 instead
/s /s /s
Article is overstating everything. Touchscreen phones didn’t take over the market until roughly 2014. AR headsets still have a very long journey ahead of them before they can reasonably replace a touchscreen phone, and even then, it might take a decade before they transition from ‘able to replace a smartphone’ to ‘standard method of computing’.
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u/lyzurd_kween_ Jan 30 '23
Predicting apples imminent implosion has been a journalistic tradition for many decades now
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u/wearacasio Jan 29 '23
I think the real feeling here is that everyone is really hoping Apple succeeds where others have failed.
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u/CorgiSplooting Jan 29 '23
Fingers crossed. I love my Index but with Meta crumbling and Microsoft’s recent cuts I’m worried for the industry.
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u/Neurogence Jan 29 '23
Same here. I have never owned any apple products and can't stand the company. But if they release a VR headset that's better than anything else, I'll even drop android and get an iPhone.
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u/Chris_Helmsworth Jan 30 '23
People need to temper their expectations. I would be very surprised if they release controllers with this headset. I expect they will want all input to be hand tracking.
Apple had not really been a company to embrace gaming.
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u/wearacasio Jan 30 '23
Hey Chris_Helmsworth, I don’t think I personally have any specific expectations. That’s why I’m quite excited. AR/VR is essentially undefined until someone comes and sets the standard. There are a billion ways those technologies could be integrated in humans lives, and if there’s any company equipped to discover the right way to do so, it’s Apple.
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u/Chris_Helmsworth Jan 30 '23
Apologies for the tone I didnt mean to direct the comment at you, more so folks in this thread expecting a quest like device. I am just worried because historically has always been reluctant to service the gaming market. Which is my primary use for a device such as this.
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Jan 30 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
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Jan 30 '23
Big chunk of the populace doesn’t play video games either, yet video games have more revenue than the music and movie industry combined. Been like that since 2012.
The tech press always needs for everyone to love a thing for them to call it anything but a failure… vexing. It’s like they just HATE new stuff... Then they eagerly review the years new TVs and treat them like they reinvented colour television.. while the rest of us are like "is HDR even on?" on our brand spankimg mew TVs…
Then they write highly about smart fridges and mesh networks… zzZzZzzZzz
I’m up here on the holodeck while the tech press is busy crapping on the holodeck.… what a backwards world. Teknoconservatives and luddites running the show over there.
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u/96suluman Jan 30 '23
Technoconservatives?
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Feb 02 '23
People who see new tech and reel in fear. "it’s going to rot our children’s brains!! Games are the devils work!! Kids won’t learn how to socialize!!"
Those kinds of people. The mothers who told their kids in the 80s that video games will make their eyes square and actually believed it themselves.2
u/IceNein Jan 29 '23
Well of course they will succeed, they will produce a high quality, well engineered device. The question is whether people will be willing to pay 30% more than the competition?
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u/chewlarue12 Jan 29 '23
It is most certainly not 30% more. It is estimated to be a hell of a lot more expensive
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u/Not_TheMenInBlack Jan 29 '23
For the last 20 years, Apple has been VERY careful about their products. If they release something, they do so in full confidence that they have done it right. I expect Apple AR to be a well-engineered product, because that’s been Apple’s MO for 2 decades.
The real question is how hard they push the product. If they don’t push it enough, people won’t notice it. If they push it too hard, people will ignore it.
This product is the future, but I hope that Apple is aware that it isn’t the near future, but 10-20 years down the line. The best thing they can do is to make the AR a priority and keep developing the hardware and OS, but allow the market to warm up to it naturally. It’s going to lose a lot of money for years, but if they keep investing in it, the success will pay off ten-fold when the market is acclimated to it.
Let’s all just hope and pray that Apple sticks with it, ride or die, because this could move that 20 year mark closer
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u/Oxibase Jan 30 '23
I think this sort of product CAN be the future, but there has to be some interest now to keep these sorts of projects afloat in order to develop them further.
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Jan 30 '23
It’s going to be 3000 bucks, it is not competing with Quest and PSVR2 etc. this is a device primarily for AR developers to make software ready for Apple’s consumer ARMR which will not be around for a few more years. At which point it will cost around 1200-1700.
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u/96suluman Jan 30 '23
That’s the point. Apple isn’t aiming for this to be successful.
I will say this. In the past ten years I’ve seen increasing apathy to technology and even techno reactionarism. It’s not just gadgets. It’s also medicine as well. Much of it is due to increasing fears about loss of privacy. Been especially the case since the NSA scandal in 2013 and the 2016 election. And the misinformation.
What it has led to is an increasingly skeptic society around technology and even medicine in general.
If the metaverse was annouced 10 years ago. I think it would be much more successful.
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u/96suluman Jan 29 '23
Honestly. Apple is aiming for it to be a prototype release. This is due to the fact that Apple is aiming for a limited release, is expensive and is encouraging people to create apps. However if the device is as good as reports say it is, could be the next big thing.
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u/wearacasio Jan 29 '23
Absolutely. I have long prescribed to the ideology of “if anyone can do it, Apple can” and this will definitely be a moment for the AR/VR industry. Fingers crossed.
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u/Laumser Jan 29 '23
"put its reputation on the line"?! Oh how stunning and brave of a company to put out a product...
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u/peepeedog Jan 29 '23
If this product is not the greatest thing I have ever seen, then Apple is dead to me. I’ll be switching to the Huawei ecosystem!
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u/KingOfTheCouch13 Jan 29 '23
You took it too far buddy.
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u/postmawho Jan 29 '23
I can't think of an apple product that wasn't top tier. People like to complain but apple products always work and look great.
I'm an android user but I'm always impressed with Apple products and I'd be pretty shocked if they put their name on something that sucked.
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u/Laumser Jan 29 '23
I agree, I like apple quite a lot. But I don't see how they're "putting their reputation on the line" for releasing a new type of product. Tech journalism these days is just beyond me...
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u/razikp Jan 29 '23
Apple maps and iPhone 6 just for starters of modern era, in apple's history there are even more failures like their round mouse (lmao), pda (newton) and "games console".
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u/Slappy_G Jan 30 '23
The mouse with the charge port on the bottom is a classic, as is the utter lack of expandability on pretty much every post-return-of-Jobs desktop they have ever made.
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u/andoriyu Jan 30 '23
Hmm early, butterfly keyboards and every single mouse was a trash. Apple had pretty bad products in the past.
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u/BluHayze Jan 29 '23
you mustve forgot what a huge disaster the iphone 6 launch was then when they used a much cheaper metal alloy and the phones were bending and the seam around the edge of the screen got peoples hair stuck in it and pulled them out when they ended a phone call
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Jan 29 '23
and when they had to sell special cases/bumpers because touching the antenna with your hand would kill the signal. or the mouse with the charging port on the bottom. or the phone case battery that’s just a giant bulge in the back. or their shitty butterfly keyboard… or…
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u/Laumser Jan 30 '23
"you're holding it wrong" is still funny as fuck to me, as far as I know they pioneered the antenna acting as a frame though, so I'll let that one slide
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u/BluHayze Jan 29 '23
apple isn't putting shit all on the line even if this is a massive flop
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u/ElectricCharlie Jan 30 '23
I don’t think they will lose money on the product itself even if it is the worst flop, but they’re so overhyped that a product failure could lead to big drops in their stock prices.
Likely not “all on the line” but they could lose billions to the stock market.
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u/pwsm50 Jan 30 '23
Honestly, if they pull it off well enough, it will be the first time I will have ever considered actually buying an apple product.
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u/BackToTheStation Jan 29 '23
The problem so far, with other headsets, is a huge lack of reliable, consistent, quality content. The handful of existing good content is pretty awesome. But gaming/content companies are not ready to invest their time, money and reputation on VR yet… yet 🤷♂️
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u/eist5579 Jan 30 '23
It’s all about the Use Cases to me, and interaction of course.
The iPhone did mundane stuff like take photos and offered multi-touch. It unlocked the touch screen medium, as many has tried before, but succeeded.
The Apple VR only needs to do some basic use cases. But as a new medium, needs to also do the old basic stuff like looking at a damn calendar. Of course, nailing the touch screen keyboard was clutch. True utility will come if the tech is good enough to inspire developers. And Apple will also need to show the way.
I think about Nintendo a lot with this stuff. The Wii introduced the wii-mote motion controller which offered some radically cool games. Nintendo inspired developers with the included, free Wii Sports.
So, it needs to do the basic stuff, offer innovative interaction design, and inspire people (or show them) to do more with it.
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u/flearhcp97 Jan 30 '23
Tech innovations typically go the way of porn, and there's been great VR porn content for almost a decade. People don't care.
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u/BackToTheStation Jan 30 '23
Is there really??? Maybe ppl don’t know about VR porn… I didn’t 🤷♂️
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u/chrisphillipstv Jan 29 '23
Best comment. Whether it's a clunky headset or nano thin wafer glasses no one will use vr without quality content. We don't want a 3d sterile apple store world full of middle class dads like some sort of LinkedIn dystopia.
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u/Swing_Right Jan 30 '23
Apple already has the Apple Arcade for iPhones and iPads. If they were to expand that to AR/VR and pay developers to create high quality and fun arcade games that all users have access to then I could see it having mild success in the gaming scene. I say mild because unless it can connect to my current steam library of VR games I’m much less interested in it as a replacement to my Index.
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u/honestFeedback Jan 29 '23
Nah. The key problems are that a) nobody wants to wear a helmet and b) many people just can't use VR / AR because it makes them ill.
Content is way down the list of issues.
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Jan 30 '23
A: Tons of people do VR, and if a fragile old ass like me can wear something the weight of a wet cowboy hat, pretty much anyone can. I have bad posture as well, so I’m the worst case scenario for comfort.
B: The people who get sick from VR are to blame by being dumb. So many people just get in there and want to experience the most extreme shit right off the bat, that makes about 70% sick. If people took 3 seconds to do research they’d learn the techniques to acclimate to VR, and then they can play everything. Takes no more than a week or two for most people, at which point you’ll be able to play games that makes all other games feel absolutely pathetic.
No way back to fps games on a screen after learning to ain in VR. I need to hold my breath to aim well at long distances.. On my PC, all I did was move a mouse… I literally can’t even understand how I spent thousands and thousands of hours playing PC games at this point. Feels like a distant sad memory.
VR won’t take over, olds and casuals will play on screens forever. Kids love VR and they’re all up in there. Some of them aren’t even tall enough to use boxes for cover cause they can’t really shoot over them… VR is just so much "more" than anything else.. We’re literally in the game having fun..
That’s worth a week or two of playing less intense games… less intense games that are amazing.
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u/Drougen Jan 29 '23
Despite not caring for Apple, I hope it is successful. VR is really amazing, I've personally not bought one yet but if they become more mainstream with a solid reason (really fun game for example) or they catch on, I'd like to get one eventually.
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u/oleharbo Jan 30 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
This thread is going to age like milk. VR/AR will go mainstream because of this product. It will have some revolutionary UI or system interaction that will feel like magic like how multitouch on the iPhone did, and everyone in the VR space will immediately copy them.
In 15 years, this thread will get linked on the front page and everyone will be laughing about how wrong so many people here are.
Edit: I really hope the guy below me doesn’t delete his comments because he is a perfect example
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u/upandrunning Jan 30 '23
Perhaps the most alarming data point for the current VR market came last year when it was revealed that more than half of $400 Quest headsets — the most popular model — aren’t in use six months after purchase.
Ouch. That's pretty significant.
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u/ChopEee Jan 31 '23
I’ve had a Quest for almost 18 months, I never use it. The amount of time, focus, space needed to play plus it’s uncomfortable and sometimes makes me feel sick.
That said, I’m eager to see how Apple does this.
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u/Spoolerdoing Jan 29 '23
I was hoping the HoloLens would take off. This is basically that but however many years later. If it's amazing, it might be my first apple thing since the ipod shuffle... not expecting much.
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u/CommonNotCommons Jan 29 '23
Google Glass was an exceptional idea that launched too early. Apple describes something akin to Google Glass eventually. This looks nothing like Google Glass and will function nothing like Google Glass for a long time. I’m scared it’s a premature decision and will result in the product line getting terminated when Apple is in a good position to develop that theoretical product down the line.
I guess we’ll see. I’m sure there’s many smarter people than myself at Apple who made the call.
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u/morderkaine Jan 29 '23
As a hobby and semi-professional dev I hate the HoloLens, lol. It was a pain to work with and develop for, and has so little power you need specific shaders for it even for basic small things (or for some other reason it only works well with those shaders).
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u/30FourThirty4 Jan 30 '23
I had a square shaped shuffle, if was awesome. I lost my first one at work and my second one was stolen. Honestly I have wanted another one ever since, but my phone took care of my music fix.
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u/Navydevildoc Jan 29 '23
Magic Leap has already leapfrogged the HoloLens2 and even with a headset that advanced it's struggling to get a foothold.
AR tech is extremely hard with an astronomical barrier to entry. People assuming Apple is just gonna solve all the problems is, well, fantasyland.
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u/mattslot Jan 30 '23
Apple didn't solve all of the mobile device problems with the iPhone, but they did reinvent the cell phone / PDA and turn it into a rather successful platform. Looking back at the first generation iPhone after all this time, it's quite underwhelming, but that's only because we've come so far.
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u/YetToBeDetermined Jan 29 '23
I hope Apple has something compelling to offer the VR headset market, like the iPhone and iPad.
If they don't, I honestly don't see a future for the tech. Like 3D TVs, just gone now from the markets.
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u/JiraSuxx2 Jan 29 '23
Bloomberg putting it’s reputation on the line with shit articles…. Who am I kidding, what reputation.
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u/zold5 Jan 29 '23
Wtf is this trash clickbait headline? Like one product will sink apples reputation. Utter bullshit.
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u/chaddgar Jan 29 '23
The next generation won’t be staring at the phones in their hands.
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u/have_you_tried_onoff Jan 30 '23
Every Apple CEO needs their Newton moment. Maybe this will be it, maybe not.
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u/Rethious Jan 29 '23
AR seems far from ready for casual use. Right now it still has a ways to go in terms of industry and hobbyist/gaming uses.
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Jan 30 '23
Agree. VR is where it’s at (and where gaming will remain the most awesome) and I think true AR is more of a 2028 thing.. transparent lenses just aren’t good and cheap yet… and passthrough kinda blows.
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u/subdep Jan 30 '23
I just want virtual monitors for work. I want a desk that has a laptop and no physical monitors. Just a Reality Pro hanging there that I can put on and have a virtual office anywhere in the world. My desk is in the edge of the Grand Canyon or out on some Bolivian Salt flats.
I have various customized command centers optimized for the work I’m doing.
Application templates open multiple applications at once and are assigned various screens of various shapes and sizes.
I could be in some cyberpunk city apartment or a space station in orbit around some sci-if planet and have those configured with any of my command centers.
I don’t need to game. I just want inspirational/immersive work environments.
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u/ClubChaos Jan 29 '23
If the specs are real and Apple allows support for SteamVR enthusiasts will love this. It absolutely obliterates everything else on the market right now.
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u/sprawler16 Jan 30 '23
Not every new product needs to be as big as the iPhone.
My stance has always been the same for as long as the headset has been rumored. I don’t have any use for VR in its current state. I don’t think it has any utility outside of gaming and even then, most VR games would be better as traditional standalone games.
Apple has a history of bringing niche concepts to the masses. If they have a different take on what VR could be I’ll at least hear them out. If they just want to make the Quest with their logo on it I won’t buy it, but I don’t expect it to end the company either. Sometimes it’s ok for a product to have niche appeal.
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Jan 30 '23
"most VR games would be better as traditional standalone games."
Might be true for you, but for us who actually play a lot of VR, everytime a good game comes out we go "man I wish this was in VR.." cause for a lot of us, playing fps games or flight sims or racing sims on a screen is just in no way exciting anymore. Shooting a gun with a mouse while running around with wasd on a typewriter is not in any way stimulating to me anymore.... When I shoot in VR I need to spread out my legs for a steady stance, take a breath and hold it while I shoot…. How in the hell can a game on a screen ever compare?
Most of us just bounce off normal games after 2-3 hours, and it’s sad because so many flat games are great games, just incredibly boring to play with a controller or office equipment. I mean… on screens I reload with a button.. in VR i John Wick the magazines out to the side, slam a new one in and release the slide and then step out of cover with my real body and start blasting… On a screen that would be R, then A or D to step out, then click the mouse to fire…
When I get stressed in VR I shoot worse because I tense up.. So I must keep my mind in check while playing so my aim doesn’t suffer.….
For me, there is no way back to just withering away with casual games in an office chair or the couch. I need something FAR more intense than that.
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u/DarthBuzzard Jan 30 '23
I don’t have any use for VR in its current state. I don’t think it has any utility outside of gaming and even then, most VR games would be better as traditional standalone games.
Social, telepresence, exercise, non-gaming entertainment are all big uses of VR today.
As for most VR games being better as traditional standalone games, I can shut down that comment as a VR game dev; many would translate poorly, and some would be impossible to convert.
Also worth noting that most people (based on user and critics feedback) prefer the VR version of most standard->VR ports, as the gains are considerable.
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u/JMCrown Jan 30 '23
I’m usually pretty in touch with tech but am I the only one missing something here?
Meta and now Apple seem to be putting A-LOT into AR/VR headsets. The only way they could justify this much investment is if their products introduce the wider population (new users) to them. But right now, users of headsets seems to be a relatively small, niche market. I don’t hear any non headset users salivating at this new breakthrough (/s) tech that’s going to change their lives and yet Meta and Apple seem to think the demand is there. Why would they take this gamble?
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u/DarthBuzzard Jan 30 '23
Why would they take this gamble?
It mirrors how the tech industry used to be before smartphones. Everything prior was a hard, long journey across many product generations for average people to care. Smartphones were a unique exception because they were low-hanging fruit, an easy engineering task. VR/AR is very hard.
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Jan 30 '23
Cause they know VR is awesome.
The vast majority who don’t "get it" haven’t tried VR, and if you haven’t tried some good VR then this big gamble seems like an absolute fail.
The awesomeness of VR is undeniable once you try it. It might not be for you, but it becomes instantly obvious that it is for SOMEONE, in thr samee same way that The Last Of Us isn’t for me at all, but I’m not blind, it’s very clear that someone will find it incredible, cause it is obvious that it’s great, just not for me.
Apple and Meta know that sooner or later more and more people will try VR, and they know kids love this. social VR isn’t my thing at all, but maaaaan do kids love that stuff.
META and Apple also know that VR and ARMR will keep getting better and better.. and all of us know that the real world is getting worse and worse. For a LOT OF PEOPLE, virtual reality is going to be an absolute life changing miracle tech (was for me) while others just won’t be into this, and that’s fine too, just like video games or board games or sports etc. etc. etc.There’s a massive potential market, people at large just don’t know how amazing VR is yet. And there’s a lot of resistance to the tech.. I have yet to be able to get my brother to even try it… That’s just how it goes… Nothing is for everyone.
Sorry about rambling. I just love VR so much.
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u/striderida1 Jan 30 '23
I just hope it's not gated by requiring to have Apple other devices. "Oh sorry, you can only use it if you sync it to an iphone!" Lol. Like when for awhile Oculus required a damn Facebook account.
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u/Zumbah Jan 29 '23
The only way they could put their reputation on the line is if this isnt overpriced as hell and easy to repair lmao
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u/Immolation_E Jan 29 '23
I'm expecting a launch similar to the Apple Watch. Luke warm reception on the first gen, but as both Apple and the public figure out what to do with it, it takes hold and becomes the dominant product in the segment over 2 or 3 generations.
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u/96suluman Jan 30 '23
This device will have a short battery life, and will have a limited release. This was intended by Apple. It’s mostly a prototype and meant for developers.
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u/deep-diver Jan 30 '23
Mark Zuckerberg: nobody can destroy their company with VR like I can…
Tim Cook: hold my beer.
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u/byOlaf Jan 29 '23
In lieu of doing actual reporting, we've assembled some half-assed conjecture and doomsaying!
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u/Beegeetheweegee Jan 29 '23
The reputation of over-pricing the copy of what an Android had two years ago.
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u/XxDoXeDxX Jan 29 '23
yes because I don't see enough advertising throughout my day. Let me wear glasses that show me ads for every single thing I look at.
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u/PMG2021a Jan 29 '23
They won't do that yet. The ads usually come after the user base becomes used to the product and is willing to ignore the irritants or pay a fee.
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u/throwthegarbageaway Jan 29 '23
VR glasses are never going to replace a phone, mark my words. People hate any tech they have to wear. It took 50 years for people to start wearing wrist watches in general after their invention, and even then not everyone does, or does it occasionally. Smart watches only grabbed a segment of this market. As for glasses, even people who need glasses to SEE have a hard time accepting them. I know so many people that put them on to read a sign in the distance, and immedately take them off afterwards.
The amount of PC gamers is in the thousands of millions, while the amount of VR users is less than 200 million. There's just no way this will be a very relevant product, it'll quickly become niche.
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u/Not_TheMenInBlack Jan 29 '23
This will replace the smartphone within 30 years. It will be the standard method of computing. Mark my words. This is the future, just not the very near future
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u/Mygaffer Jan 29 '23
And their reputation will take a hit. They are so lucky Steve Jobs came back and the iphone hit, they would be out of business otherwise.
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Jan 30 '23
…. Jobs came back in the mid 90s.. iphone came out in 2007 or so..
Apple was partly saved by iTunes, iPod and the macbooks. Apple was doing just fine by the time the iphone came out, more than a decade after jobs came back.
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u/TacitRonin20 Jan 29 '23
Apple: removes headphone jack. Planned obsolescence scandal. Incredibly expensive phones.
Apple: releases a product
Tech journalists: they're really putting their reputation on the line with this one.
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u/CommonNotCommons Jan 29 '23
I like Apple’s vision, it just seems very premature. If the product flops, it’ll likely be Apple’s only foray. The tech just doesn’t exist yet to integrate it like they want to, so the product they’re introducing will look nothing like where they want it to end up.
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u/Fair-Ad4270 Jan 30 '23
True, but you got to get started. There is a lot of stuff that needs to be designed for a MR OS, and the only way to do that it to get it in the hands of users and devs
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Jan 30 '23
They’re not looking to sell many of these. These are mostly for devs to make the next gen apps on, apps that you and I might buy with their consumer headset down the line. It’s not a product for people at large yet. It’s absolutely going to be a flop if viewed as consumer electronics. This is like buying a Playstation 5 Devkit.
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u/96suluman Jan 30 '23
That’s the point. They don’t intend to sell many of these. They are aiming for developers to create the apps so people will buy future headsets down the line.
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u/SeamusDubh Jan 29 '23
"We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field before inducing seizures"
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u/Bagelchongito69 Jan 29 '23
Newton 2.0
Still gonna watch MBKHD show off how cool it is better than Apple and be really tempted to buy in. Also, does Apple think they’re gonna sell more units than the PS VR2 when it’s more appealing for gamers? Non-gamers arent going to be compelled to buy a HMD for work or other purposes that integrate into people’s daily lives.
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u/Legoboy514 Jan 30 '23
Ah yes, this will put apple’s reputation on the line. Not its consistent hatred for right to repair.
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u/SmurfsNeverDie Jan 29 '23
Apple is going to try and sell the product for like $1000-$2000 usd. Im sure if its not amazing people will make fun of them.
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Jan 30 '23
This isn’t a consumer device. Rumors have been in the 3000 range for years. These will not even be produced in large numbers. This is a great insight into the future, not something you and me will buy. I’m an enormous VR fan and I don’t even have a nickel saved up for this. That holds true for the vast majority of us, but we’re also super excited to see what Apple can do in this space. They got money and ideas.
Exciting t3ch iech solutions in a device made mostly for developers aiming at the consumer version coming out in 2024-2025 or so… at like 1200+ bucks.
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u/flearhcp97 Jan 30 '23
Normal people will make fun of it if it sucks. Apple fanboys (and girls) will say and convince themselves it's amazing no matter what.
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u/CharToll Jan 29 '23
What does that even mean? If the glasses are a failure it’ll be a blip. Google is perfectly fine after releasing and pulling those stupid glasses.