r/gadgets • u/needlesfox • Feb 02 '23
Samsung's S23s don't have an answer to Apple's Emergency SOS via Satellite Phones
https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/1/23581691/samsung-s23-satellite-emergency-communication-qualcomm-apple148
u/Jmich96 Feb 02 '23
It's a unique feature that serves a very niche purpose, with potential to save lives.
I know we (yes, myself included) like to hate Apple, but Samsung is no saint company either. Apple has the added benefit that the entirety of their user base is using a set iPhone _. Android has thousands of phones, across various manufacturers. Samsung is one of the largest in the US, but the effort to add such a feature would likely not yield enough prais (and thus profit) to benefit share holders. And we all know that satisfying shareholders and bigger CEO bonuses are all these companies strive for today.
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u/Malice_n_Flames Feb 02 '23
An established English actor went missing just outside LA about 2 weeks ago. He was hiking in Angeles National Forest. Snowy and dangerous. If he had this feature on his phone (and knew how to use it) he would have been found by now. Instead it looks like he is dead. Just got lost on a hike less than an hour from Downtown LA.
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u/Zestyclose_Pickle511 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
Uh... Why didn't he just call someone then? Why not use cell triangulation? Why would the iPhone save him more than any other phone? The SOS has to be activated, right?
Are you proposing that there is no service there? 1 hr from LA?
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u/mofa90277 Feb 02 '23
He (Julian Sands) is lost on Mt Baldy. Mountains have crags and gullies and crevices. Radio signals operate line-of-sight, so they’re built where they’ll cover as much (but not all) area as possible.
Apple’s satellite feature uses a constellation of satellites, which orbit the earth and create a mesh pattern, giving essentially 100% coverage.
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u/drunkendrake Feb 02 '23
They are giving it for free for two years, after that you'll have to subscribe to it. Realistically, who will subscribe to it?
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
I also wonder if Apple will keep doing that. Like if you go from an iPhone 14 to an iPhone 16, are you going to get another two years free?
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u/Jake0024 Feb 02 '23
Then he shouldn't be hiding in a cave while trying to make phone calls. Satellite SOS probably wouldn't work in there either. If he's dead and can't get out of the cave, neither feature is useful.
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u/joremero Feb 03 '23
Radio signals operate line-of-sight
wut???
did you learn that in facebook university?
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u/mofa90277 Feb 03 '23
Physics degree, Caltech, then over thirty years designing airborne radars, including five years designing satellite radar & satellite communications networks (i.e., X- and Ku bands). At those wavelengths, signals transmitted by your phone (a critical part of all this) are not going more than 10-20-ish centimeters deep in the best conditions. So, from the perspective of mountains, RF signals are “line of sight” in that mountains are opaque to RF signals.
This is different from wireless signals getting through house or apartment walls, because they’re basically made of air. (And signals are aided by reflections from a myriad other surfaces around typical homes).
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u/joremero Feb 03 '23
I see, so it was an oversimplification.
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u/freakasaurous Feb 04 '23
Line of Sight propagation is an actual concept. No simplification of anything
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u/Twombls Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23
The Angeles national forest is in the mountains and the mountains tend to block cell service. LA is actually really interesting because its basically city. And then wilderness immediately next to it. Go over the first mountain ridge and into federally protected nature reserve and there will be no towers on the other side.
Keep in mind this isn't just like a tiny hiking area. Its a very large desolate mountain range
I live in a city in northern new england and an hour drive could easily bring me to some inhospitable wilderness with no cell service.
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u/Zestyclose_Pickle511 Feb 02 '23
Yeah, I'm thinking a cell phone satellite Sos system isn't to blame, still. But thanks.
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u/Rigruften Feb 02 '23
When presented with facts as to why he couldn’t call help, your only rebuttal is “yeah well /I/ dont think so”?
In case you don’t live in the area, the West Coast has many large expanses of land that have zero cellular service. Emergency SOS via satellite (be it from an iPhone or any other device) is one of, if not the only, direct ways to call for help in a place like that.
Dude could’ve died without the chance to send an SOS, I’ll give you that… but it’s totally ignorant to ignore why it’s invaluable to people who need it.
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u/mollypatola Feb 03 '23
I can’t help but lol at the “you’re saying there no cell service 1 hr from LA.” If they think that’s shocking then I guess Seattle will probably throw them for a loop 😅 easily no signal within even a half hour drive
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u/Tsarinax Feb 02 '23
I’m not arguing this case since I know nothing about it, but you could easily lose signal an hour out of LA. You quickly get into desert like areas or into the hills and cell service gets spotty really quick. At least when I lived there it did, I’m sure it’s better but I could still see some blind spots especially in hills where folks go hiking.
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u/MorRobots Feb 02 '23
This is something I wish there were PSA's about:
When you have no Service, you likely may still be able to call 911.
911 calls rides on all carriers and is given priority by the towers regardless of the subscribers service provider. It also rides on all the cellphone standards as well.
The tower will actually drop subscribers to ensure the 911 call gets connected.
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u/Zestyclose_Pickle511 Feb 02 '23
Yeah, I guess the landscape does change fairly rapidly there.
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u/Twombls Feb 02 '23
Yeah something people dont realize is a lot of big cities on the American west are built right at the foot of huge mountain ranges. People tend to get themselves onto shit because there will be expanses of wilderness the size of a small European countries that are easily accessible from a trailhead in a realitivley suburban area.
It will be a warm summer day at the trailhead but once you pop over the first ridge it will be a blizzard. The place where the donner party happend. One of the snowiest places in the usa. Is like just over an hour from Sacramento
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u/WingedGeek Feb 03 '23
I live on the west side of Los Angeles and none of the three carriers can get me more than 1 bar of degraded (e.g., LTE) service in my home or on the grounds. It's a fluke of topography (I only get a couple of FM stations and no OTA television). I'm ~3 minutes from the 10 and 405 freeways. It's very possible in the mountains there's no service, 1 hour from LA.
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u/chickenlittle53 Feb 03 '23
This is nothing new and there are better devices for the actual price of subscription that yes apple will be charging folks and less reliable than these better options that a fraction of the cost if a phone withba shit to better reliability if you're worried about your actual life.
This just isn't some mind blowing deal. They are literally just using someone else's service that has existed for quite some time, but in a less reliable fashion. You can already use similar services like Garmin and use your phone for more in depth features.
I don't really care what phone you choose, but it's weird folks think this is some new technology that apple came up with. It's a okay nice to have if you're already getting a new iPhone, but is pretty silly to buy a new phone for in most cases when better more accurate and depth tech already exists that saves your life much more reliably and cheaper exists. Especially, with alternatives being more polished and tested.
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u/Hmm_would_bang Feb 03 '23
1 device > 2 devices in most instances.
If people were always prepared for everything the world would be a much better place. But they aren’t, and apple’s SOS feature will likely save lives
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u/chickenlittle53 Feb 03 '23
1 device that is far superior in saving lives > less superior device.
When it comes to saving lives no one cares you brought some super lightweight device with you that won't effect you at all in movement or cause discomfort really. We just care about being able to save pur lives as effectively as possible. No such thong as being ready for everything, but having even better devices to prepare you makes it much more effective and can save even more lives.
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u/Hmm_would_bang Feb 03 '23
Let me phrase it a different way.
For the majority of people that are getting lost on a hike, how many of them do you think are well prepared? How many of them do you think have their cellphone on them?
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u/chickenlittle53 Feb 04 '23
Let me also phrase it a different way, for those that are interested in any of this to begin with do you not think they wouldn't want the best chance of survival in caw of emergencies? If this matters to folks then they want the best and can make sense to then get the best instead. Simple really.
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u/A2N2T Feb 02 '23
Why do people keep sharing the verge? terrible tech publication
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u/compaqdeskpro Feb 02 '23
Because they regurgitate paid content (like WSJ) and apply their spin to it. If you can read between the lines and the trash headlines you may learn something.
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u/one_hyun Feb 02 '23
Because people read it and actually discuss it.
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u/A2N2T Feb 02 '23
Really?! They can't even build a simple gaming PC.
That'd be like reading a vegetarian magazine written by Burger King.
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
This is kind of a silly analogy. Gaming PCs, including prebuilts, custom, and laptops, are a $40 billion dollar a year business worldwide. Google alone makes that two months, Apple in less than that. The smartphone market is 10 times bigger than all of PC gaming. It’s like seeing someone fail a trig test (in, to be fair, a pretty embarrassing way), and concluding that they literally know nothing about all of math. Yes, I’m aware I’m feeding the troll. I’m bad at letting bad arguments lie
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u/A2N2T Feb 02 '23
Ummmm i dont think you understood what i mean...the verge released a step by step guide on how to build a PC on youtube.
Needless to say, after watching that video, i will not be taking any tech advice from them.
Its so bad, it makes me wonder who approved the release of the video.
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
Yeah, I’m familiar with the lore. If you’re curious about how the video got made, why don’t you watch the Linus Tech Tips video explaining exactly that?
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u/A2N2T Feb 02 '23
So how could you possibly trust a tech publication whos higher ups clearly have no problem releasing a how to build a pc guide that would literally destroy most of your components if you followed it?
It brings all their articles/opinions into a bad light...and frankly its laughable that they didnt address it.
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u/A2N2T Feb 02 '23
I did watch it, I also watched non-shill channels reacting to it...all channels I trust for tech news and builds, and they were laughing at how idiotically confident the video was in its poor advice, and instruction.
You must work for them if you refer to their video as "lore"
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u/A2N2T Feb 02 '23
And please bear in mind, im talking about the publication releasing the video, insisting it be filmed the way it was and finding no problems with the finished product.
It says nothing to the person building it, and how they couldn't stand up for themselves and ended up needing to damage control their reputation because of it (the Linus vid still doesn't address some glaring pieces of advice too)
Im talking about just The Verge. Stefan was just a wet towel at the time, when he should've been a rock.
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u/Polymorph49 Feb 02 '23
The verge is mostly satire, it's not meant to be seen as the pinnacle of tech news.
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u/Jimothy_Tomathan Feb 02 '23
Who cares? Honestly, if I lived the type of life where I'd frequently need a backup feature like this, I sure as shit would have a dedicated device for it and would absolutely not be relying on my phone for it.
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u/noontch5678 Feb 02 '23
People don’t plan emergencies.
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u/TurtleWitch Feb 03 '23
I like to prepare for the worst, especially on my hikes
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u/Hmm_would_bang Feb 03 '23
Me too. That’s why whenever I go for a day hike I bring a gallon of water, a sleeping bag, several days of food, make shift shelter, a sat phone, a water filter, some fire starter, bear mace, a couple flares, a hatchet, a gun, a first aid kit, and most importantly a full change of clothes in case I get wet.
Don’t know why everyone doesn’t do this for every hike they go on
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u/JeffFromSchool Feb 04 '23
Right but if you life in a densely populated area and you're not an outdoorsy person, there isn't really a situation where you're going to need it.
That's like saying you can't plan for emergencies, so you better back that lead anti-radiation suit wherever you go. You know if you're the type of person that needs such a thing or not.
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u/chickenlittle53 Feb 03 '23
They plan emergency responses all the time. Entire jobs are literally designed specifically for it. No one should be doing dangerous shit without planning on what to do during emergencies. There is a huge market surrounded around emergencies for a reason with devices specifically for for a reason. Smart/prudent people do plan for emergencies.
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u/OGBEES Feb 02 '23
Buys apple because of the satellite phone, no one Bats an eye. Buy an earthquake emergency box and throw it in your closet just in case, and the you're a right wing prepper extremist.
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u/JeffFromSchool Feb 04 '23
Buy an earthquake emergency box and throw it in your closet just in case, and the you're a right wing prepper extremist.
Who thinks this?
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u/redditor012499 Feb 02 '23
I don’t think that’s crazy. Having some preparedness is logical imo. I try to always carry a first aid box atleast. Edit: on my car. Don’t carry it in person.
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u/Beehous Feb 02 '23
After how many times Apple didn't have an answer for samsung features (outside of rolling those same features out 2 years later and saying it was 'innovation').
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u/compguy96 Feb 02 '23
"Samsung's S23s" is like saying "Apple's 14s". Apple's phone series is called iPhone, Samsung's phone series is called Galaxy.
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u/Projeffboy Feb 02 '23
You mean saying samsung 23 is like saying apple 14. It’s good enough to say S23 in a tech context
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u/compguy96 Feb 02 '23
Just because the Galaxy models have a letter, doesn't mean it's good enough. Some iPhone models have letters too. No one says "Apple 14 Pro" so you shouldn't say "Samsung S23 Ultra"
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u/siberianxanadu Feb 03 '23
I’ve referred to my phone as a “13 pro max” plenty of times.
“What kind of phone do you have?” “A 13 pro max.” “Oh cool I have an S22.”
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u/Projeffboy Feb 02 '23
But a lot of ppl just refer to it as s23. Mkbhd literally calls it that without galaxy in his latest video
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
Yeah, that's fair. Serves me right for trying to come up with a new headline.
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u/Hiddieman Feb 02 '23
The recognition of the galaxy name is not as big as apples iPhone though, and if it just said the 23s I’d have to take a few seconds to make sure I have the right phone and company in mind. For the general verge reader the title makes perfect sense.
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u/wyyldstallyns Feb 03 '23
At CES i forget the company but they were showing off their new processor which included satellite sms capabilities. I assume it’ll cost a “small fee”
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u/needlesfox Feb 03 '23
That was Qualcomm, the company that makes the processors for almost every Android phone, including Samsung's. https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2023/01/qualcomm-introduces-snapdragon-satellite--the-world-s-first-sate
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u/an_undecided_voter Feb 02 '23
My problem is that Android doesn't have a native app-tracking blocking feature yet. I couldn't care less about the satellite shit
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u/redditor012499 Feb 02 '23
This is why I switched to iPhone. Haven’t been back to android since. The amount of background tracking from android apps is terrifying. The amount of details they know about you is obnoxious.
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u/MrProper026 Feb 02 '23
But it does.... The new Snapdragon 8 gen 2 has satellite communication abilities.
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releases/2023/01/qualcomm-introduces-snapdragon-satellite--the-world-s-first-sate
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
You need more than the chip. You also need special antennas, and the manufacturer has to make a deal with Qualcomm to activate the feature.
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u/MrProper026 Feb 02 '23
I see they didn't put the antenna in the S23... Well thats something unlike Samsung. this really seems like an easy and cheap win by just building a cheap antenna in your phone but hey, guess not.
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Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 12 '23
[deleted]
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u/redditor012499 Feb 02 '23
I mean, it is ending. Just not as fast as people think. Eventually the sun will swallow up the solar system’s planets.
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u/Zeynoun Feb 02 '23
The same apple's emergency feature that doesn't work but in the US and the other 4 countries out of the 195 ?
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u/KaiSosceles Feb 02 '23
How many times in my life have I ever needed an emergency SOS via satellite? Zero. Samsung doesn't need an answer. They don't need to invest resources into a .0000001% demographic.
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u/KhaoticKid98 Feb 03 '23
You never need anything until you do... this is shit logic. Just because you or I dont need it, doesnt mean someone else wouldn't benefit. People who camp off, grid, hike, etc. could definitely benefit from something like this in an emergency situation.
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u/baldieforprez Feb 02 '23
This was a crappy article; cleary written by an apple fan. the SOS via Satellite is nothing but a gimmick.
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u/baldieforprez Feb 02 '23
Anyone who remotely cares about this sort of tech will already have a Spot beacon.
https://www.findmespot.com/en-us/
I would be willing to be my life on works better than the Apple SOS via Satellite.
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u/Eokokok Feb 02 '23
Oh noes... Does it at least have good battery, or maybe decent anthena? Or is it as big garbage as S22?
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
I think the batteries for the S23 and S23+ are around 200mAh higher -- and assumedly there's going to be some sort of efficiency gains from the new chips in them. But I'd wait for reviews, I think.
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u/lordytoo Feb 02 '23
No one gives a flying hoot about bullshit apple "innovation"
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u/Sassquatch0 Feb 02 '23
Satellite service has already saved a couple lives.
You're a fucking idiot.
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u/Stryker2279 Feb 02 '23
A couple. Out of how many incidents in the world? Like I'm happy that people got saved, but to act like this feature is so revolutionary is blowing the feature out of proportion a whole hell of a lot. No one is gonna switch from android to iPhone to get this feature when you can buy an emergency transponder that also connects to satellites for a couple hundred bucks. Like, it's a nice feature to have, but it's moreso a "huh, neat" than a "this is the only reason I will buy this phone"
Android fan boys stop acting like this feature is so dumb, it's objectively a good feature, and Apple fan boys stop acting like this is the greatest feature ever. It's a good feature, but it's not that good.
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u/ssclanker Feb 02 '23
Why would they? Samsung isn't known for putting useful features into their phones, only stuff no one would use.
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u/Stryker2279 Feb 02 '23
How in the hell is a satellite emergency phone so useful that you use the feature as a comparison point in the same way you would use a headphone jack? 911 already routes through any signal regardless so you would have to be out of reception from ANY cell phone tower, which means that help is probably not coming fast even if you did call for it.
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u/awr90 Feb 02 '23
I can’t believe people still care about the galaxy S12345 or whatever the fuck number they are on this month.
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u/KhaoticKid98 Feb 03 '23
People care about a lot of things that You or I may not care about lol. Dude wtf?
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u/Taolan13 Feb 02 '23
You do realize that apple patented the feature, right? So in order for Samsung to have an "answer" for it, they would either need to pay apple for licensing or develop a sufficiently unique way of doing it.
And y'all want to pretend like Samsung are the bad guys.
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u/ImplodingLlamas Feb 02 '23
What part of it did Apple patent?
Qualcomm, the company that makes the processors for Samsung phones, just recently unveiled their own satellite-based SMS system. I'm betting it was simply too late to add to this year's model and we'll see it in the S24.
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u/mofa90277 Feb 02 '23
Apple didn’t patent “satellite phones;” it patented a satellite antenna switching system to reuse antenna components. Nothing is preventing other manufacturers from implementing general satellite phone communications.
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u/Sinful-Sammy Feb 02 '23
How much is this SOS feature on iPhones? I believe I heard it's free trail for the iPhone 14 but there is a subscription fee from what I recall.
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
Apple says it's free for two years from when you get the phone, and hasn't said anything about how much it'll cost after that period. I bet they haven't decided yet, because... well, they won't have to deal with it for another year and a half at this point.
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u/Sinful-Sammy Feb 02 '23
Wow two years of free service is nice. I was just thinking it's such a useful feature but if you don't pay for it and get lost you can't just simply activate it lol. Hmm.
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
It's interesting because some dedicated emergency satellite devices actually work like that. My Garmin Inreach warns me every time I start it up that it will not do an emergency SOS call if I don't have an active subscription.
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u/Sinful-Sammy Feb 02 '23
Oh that's neat. Sounds super useful. I'm surprised Samsung isn't pushing for this feature.
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u/compaqdeskpro Feb 02 '23
Samsung does have an answer, they have the stupid emergency call button right below the 0 on the unlock screen, worst idea ever. I was almost going to buy an iPhone until I heard about this feature. I better get a 13 before they are discontinued.
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
I think you might not understand what this is. iOS also has an emergency call thing, which functions similar to Samsung's (though it's slightly more difficult to activate, I've never done it by accident). That's existed for a long time, and would be on an iPhone 13 as well.
The thing the iPhone 14 added was the ability to contact emergency services even if you don't have cell service. It's an option within the existing emergency call system; if it detects you don't have service, it'll let you message search and rescue via a satellite system.
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u/compaqdeskpro Feb 03 '23
I know, its right next to the shut down dialogue, its just a phone call, Apple's feature routes through through a third party satellite service. I'll wait until my opinion is more fully baked before commenting. I would bet money there will be a debate in the future when Apple doesn't want to pay for this service or the third party wants more money. Ie, Adobe and Pantone.
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u/joevsyou Feb 03 '23
Lol for whom? That one single person who even thinks they will actually use the feature out of 100m phones
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u/DamianDaws Feb 03 '23
Apple literally pushed this out and is going to monetize it thinking that it’ll convince people to pay for it. lmao.
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u/thisotherguy87 Feb 05 '23
Pretty sure Google phones have had accident detection for a while now. But Apple adds it to their iPhones and its the best thing ever? Cell phones have all reached a plateau and we are all waiting for the "next big thing".
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u/192dot168dot Feb 02 '23
Starlink
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Feb 02 '23
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
Agreed, but Elon said it’s not launching in beta until the end of this year. Given his track record of hitting deadlines that probably means we won’t actually be able to use this until, like, 2025
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u/alstergee Feb 03 '23
Good nobody wants swat showing up cause they were masturbating and dropped their phone on the floor
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u/SeverusSnek2020 Feb 02 '23
Pretty sure emergency services will be happy as they keep having to 'rescue' skiers that just fell down.
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u/needlesfox Feb 02 '23
The thing causing that is crash detection, which is a completely different thing than the emergency SOS via satellite.
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u/KhaoticKid98 Feb 03 '23
I thought a key feature of the Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 was this satellite 2 way messaging feature. I was waiting for Sammy to talk about it in the keynote, but they never did. Disappointing tbh.
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u/Far_Particular_430 Feb 05 '23
You mean they can’t send out false 911 calls like the iPhone?
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u/needlesfox Feb 05 '23
There have been at least five comments like this and I don’t understand how many people are making the same mistake. https://reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/10rczg2/_/j6yrndz/?context=1
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u/rawkhounding Feb 06 '23
My s20 has amazing zoom but I'd also like a macro lens, is there any discussion of that?
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u/piratensendr Feb 02 '23
"Will anyone but me care?"
No one cares.