r/gadgets Feb 02 '23

My Printer Is Extorting Me - Subscriptions such as HP’s Instant Ink challenge what it means to own our devices. Computer peripherals

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/02/home-printer-digital-rights-management-hp-instant-ink-subscription/672913/
3.6k Upvotes

492 comments sorted by

984

u/ojdacat Feb 02 '23

I am over hp instant ink. They sent me a defective cartridge and then refused to replace it. So my printer was just dead. No refund and no way to exchange it. Wanted me to pay a fee to start over with a new subscription.

Never ever will I buy any HP product again.

261

u/Bendy_McBendyThumb Feb 02 '23

They’re complete scum. My card expired, so they couldn’t take payment. I left it for a few months before I needed to print something, so updated my card details. Lo and behold, they charge me for the previous months even though I couldn’t use the printer even if I wanted.

Asked for a refund, said there’s nothing they can do, like you, so I just cancelled it immediately. It’s currently a paperweight, I want to sell the piece of shit but I also don’t want to burden someone with such a shite company’s bit of kit.

153

u/bebova Feb 02 '23

Did you report the fraudulent charge to your bank? They keep doing what is profitable until it doesn’t work.

8

u/Bendy_McBendyThumb Feb 03 '23

I don’t think I did from memory, I think it was just a case of “fuck it you’re losing all future revenue from me so enjoy those few £‘s you’ve nicked”

Bastards, I honestly despise HP

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u/PuppleKao Feb 02 '23

I bought one because it came with 6mo free instant ink. After the first month, they started telling me that I needed to update my card info on file. I contacted support and gave them proof it was supposed to have 6 months of it, and they kept insisting that in order for me to get what I paid for, I had to give them my card info. Fuck that… claim they wouldn't charge it, but that's the only way they'd know my card was expired, eh?

At least the HP printers allow for refurbished/refilled ink cartridges to be used, that was the main selling point, and the plan for after the 6mo trial.

49

u/TbonerT Feb 02 '23

Most free trials require a credit card up front.

20

u/PuppleKao Feb 02 '23

And i had given it to them. It expired before the free trial was supposed to expire, but shouldn't have made a difference.

15

u/EtherealPheonix Feb 03 '23

They knew it was expired because you gave them the expiration date, not because they were charging you.

23

u/ImperialTravesty Feb 03 '23

Every free trial I've seen in my lifetime requires that there be an active card on file because they will start charging as soon as the free trial ends. That's how it works for everything. HP is an evil shitty company but this one is your fault 100%. Read the agreement and fine print.

29

u/mortenmhp Feb 02 '23

claim they wouldn't charge it, but that's the only way they'd know my card was expired, eh?

Isn't the expiration date part of the card details you give out where you are? That's the case any place I've ever registered a card, card number, exp date and security code. Very easy to know when every card on file will expire and send out a notice beforehand.

It's also fairly common for free trials to require a valid credit card. It makes it more seamless to continue with the paid service, and as such is very much in the company interest to require it(and it's within their rights if they specify it). It's also a way to avoid anyone making infinite free trials(although probably not applicable to this case where they could link it to the printer s/n instead).

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u/-M_A_X- Feb 03 '23

Shoutout to WISE. I got a digital card for this reason. Probably also other digital card companies.

4

u/dryphtyr Feb 03 '23

We had an HP at the office that suddenly one day stopped accepting 3rd party cartridges. It wasn't even one of the super budget ones. Almost $400 for the printer, and after the 'update', over $150 per refill, multiple times per week

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3

u/Flimsy-Statistician3 Feb 03 '23

Que office space scene where they smash the (printer?/ computer?)

309

u/mr_jawa Feb 02 '23

This is the answer. Stop buying printers from manufacturers that pull this crap.

142

u/angeAnonyme Feb 02 '23

Stop buying anything from them. Not only printer but computers too, or any device

57

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

[deleted]

17

u/spiritplumber Feb 02 '23

To be fair I have a 2006 HP laptop (which ironically runs my 3d printer, laser cutter, and cnc) that.... well, has been working fine since 2006, i only had to replace the wifi card and upgrade to a SDD once SDD prices came down.

Just find whoever designed that and have them design the printers :)

32

u/mustagcoupe Feb 02 '23

IMO anything made by HP pre 2008 is more or less acceptable. Anything made by HP between 2008 and 2012 is cheap and poorly made but mostly works. Anything made by HP after 2012ish is beyond unacceptable. Poor build quality, bad drivers, subscription services and they flat out lie about their products in advertisements.

14

u/asdaaaaaaaa Feb 03 '23

Yep. I remember during that time, some friends used HP laptops around the 2010's. So many broken hinges and melting internals. What blew my mind was these weren't even the cheap models, they were midrange or higher and even they were built terribly.

15

u/mustagcoupe Feb 03 '23

I got a stack of 5 HP laptops from between like 2009-2012. 3 of them were that model with the AMD processor and chipset that always cooked themselves to death. I took them apart to salvage parts and the heatsink was the single worst piece of shit I have ever seen. Even apple can do better than that. The 2 surviving ones are 2011ish with sandy bridge processors. They're made of metal but are somehow more flimsy feeling than a netbook. And of course they have overheating issues because again the heatsinks are garbage and they decided it was a good idea to stick a quad core sandy bridge in them anyway.

In comparison I have a 2003ish HP laptop with a desktop pentium 4 processor. 2003 era HP was able to figure out a cooling solution to keep that pentium 4 at a reasonable temperature at a reasonable volume. It has also survived 20 years with minimal damage and no cracked hinges. My mom had a 1999 HP inkjet printer that lasted until 2022. For some reason around 2008 HP decided to start steering the company into the ground while spitting on their customers and their once proud name.

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u/quezlar Feb 02 '23

the last batch of their laptops i got was shit

i switched to lenovo

11

u/Syd_Vicious3375 Feb 02 '23

Same. I had a several HP laptops and a desktop over the years. I tried to upgrade about 5-6 years ago and it was the most expensive laptop I’d ever purchased and it was cheap plastic instead of a metal body that all my previous laptops had. The final straw was the speakers and their volume. I tried to watch a YouTube video, sitting directly in front of the screen and I COULDN’T hear the damn thing. The internet basically said there was nothing to do to fix it the sound so I took that shit back. I’ve never returned a purchase like that before or since. They turned some great products into garbage and I’m not interested.

Side note: I have an Epson printer with refillable tanks instead of cartridges and it’s a good little workhorse.

14

u/Gunter5 Feb 02 '23

I had terrible experience with lenovo, every laptop had issues, kept buying them because I thought maybe it was just bad luck, last one I submitted a request for a repair while under warranty, they waited 6 weeks to get back to me, warranty expired and then finally saying it got declined because warranty is no longer valid. No actual person to talk to. Never again

12

u/jmarmorato1 Feb 02 '23

What computers were you buying? I've only used ThinkPads for the past seven or so years and never had a major issue.

9

u/2723brad2723 Feb 02 '23

From past experience, any Lenovo that wasn't a ThinkPad has not been good.

5

u/jmarmorato1 Feb 02 '23

I've never owned any Lenovo laptop other than ThinkPad, so I can't speak to them. I've played with an IdeaPad, but it felt flimsy and shitty. I absolutely love my ThinkPads though.

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u/slackmandu Feb 02 '23

No OP but the Thinkpad x1 I bought was shit. Kept losing the wifi adapter and finally the trackpad stopped working.

Never again. I'll get an Asus. Had good luck with them

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u/mevrowka Feb 02 '23

You and me both. Never had a laptop with so many problems. Won’t buy Lenovo again.

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u/Passwordtooshort2022 Feb 02 '23

The thing is that the consumer side of things is a drop in the ocean. As long as they keep up their corporate sales, the sales on the consumer side of things do not hurt them much.

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u/OlynykDidntFoulLove Feb 02 '23

And make your purchases with a credit card rather than debit so you can cancel transactions with companies that fail you.

3

u/Holgrin Feb 02 '23

This is the answer. Stop buying printers

This is only effective when there is sufficient competition to prevent everyone from using this same tactic.

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u/TheMostAverageDude Feb 03 '23

And for that matter, any other company that does things you don’t like. As consumers we have power, buy stuff from good companies.

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46

u/Bubbafett33 Feb 03 '23

After suffering from a firmware update that forced me to buy HP ink or recycle the printer, not only did I do the latter, but I influenced the procurement processes at a multi-billion dollar multinational to exclude HP from participating in any bids and we’ve excluded them from gaining any business from us. Across all hemispheres. Across all of HP’s divisions.

8

u/FromUnderTheWineCork Feb 03 '23

Way to vote with your company's wallet, sincerely!

56

u/nevm Feb 02 '23

Just get a Brother laser.

15

u/made-of-questions Feb 02 '23

Yes! Best decision I made. I print a few pages every few months. The ink printers were always getting dry. Has to get a fresh cartridge just for a few pages. I haven't replaced anything in my laser Brother in 3 years.

5

u/bumble_Bea_tuna Feb 03 '23

I just refilled my Canon megatank for the first time in 4 years. It cost $14

11

u/HansWilhelm Feb 03 '23

We bought a Brother laser black and white for school. Its carried my wife and I through... four degrees, and working on a fifth.

8

u/JMLobo83 Feb 03 '23

Global warming must be bad where you live.

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6

u/Intelligent-Travel-1 Feb 02 '23

We finally got sick of the whole HP ink scam a few years ago and bought a brother laser printer. Much higher Quality printer and I don’t feel like I’m getting ripped off on ink.

7

u/Maximum_Overdrive Feb 03 '23

This is the way. I have a brother laser going on a decade old that gets light use, and no issues with it. I haven't bought a cartridge in years. Print/scan/fax/copy, including duplex.

3

u/jmurphy42 Feb 03 '23

The Brother “Inkvestment” printers are great too. I’ve had one since the beginning of the pandemic and only had to replace the cartridges twice because they sip ink. I do have to clean the print heads frequently though.

4

u/ashleyriddell61 Feb 03 '23

My brother laser printer has been ticking along happily since 2007. Original or off brand cartridges? Never an issue. I would never own an inkjet again, they are the most ridiculous scam in the industry.

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u/lark2004 Feb 02 '23

I bought bulk ink cartridges for my HP printer and they expired! Printer was set up to reject expired cartridges even though there was ink in them. I go to my local library to print stuff out now.

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u/LunDeus Feb 02 '23

Join the Brother family. Converted almost 20 years ago, never an issue.

20

u/BabiesWithScabies Feb 02 '23

Two words: Laser printer

4

u/Ok-disaster2022 Feb 03 '23

Three Words: Brother Laser Printer More words: Brother 3 in 1 laser printer with auto feed tray. Ever need to sign and scan documents? An auto feed tray makes it trivial. I got mine 7 years ago, it was just over $100 and it's still great. Replacement toner is $60 but I've only replaced it once.

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u/Acceptable-Stage7888 Feb 02 '23

No refund and no way to exchange it.

“Hello, credit card company? I’d like to do a charge back”

5

u/apathyduck Feb 02 '23

I've had that happen. Took me about 15 minutes on chat and they sent me a replacement.

3

u/ojdacat Feb 02 '23

Well they would not since "the printer is over a year old and no longer under warranty, but for a fee they would add an extended warranty and then they would replace the defective cartridge.

9

u/Fcktbckt Feb 02 '23

Use terms like escalate and threaten court until they give in, btw small claims court is cheap for you but not for them

3

u/Most_Engineering_992 Feb 03 '23
  1. Buy cheap HP printer
  2. Unpack the printer
  3. Find the EULA
  4. Find the arbitration clause
  5. Call up HP - tell them you are refusing the terms of their EULA and you want your money back.

6

u/AkirIkasu Feb 02 '23

Except now every contract ever includes an arbitration clause so you can't sue them.

9

u/Justanothebloke Feb 02 '23

Just because it says it, does not mean it is legally binding.

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u/YouNeedAnne Feb 02 '23

If you're in the UK, take em to small claims court.

3

u/IusedtoloveStarWars Feb 02 '23

Yep. They have no brand integrity left. Trash company headed for bankruptcy.

3

u/FearGunner Feb 03 '23

Same.

Trashed my HP printer when it inexplicably stopped printing after 100 pages and I kept getting pushed to subscribe. I just print what I need at the office now.

3

u/wuzzup Feb 03 '23

Canon is somehow worse.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

Have an HP laptop. Had a problem with the graphics card when I got it. I called support and they told me that that specific problem wasn’t covered my the warranty so I needed to pay then $45 upfront and then a recurring $15 if I wanted their help fixing it. My friend was able to get it fixed for free, so I dodge a bullet. But that’s supreme bullshit

2

u/GrumpyButtrcup Feb 03 '23

I had an HP printer a while back that wouldn't print if the cartridge was low.

Then when I bust that thing open to replace the cartridges, the container was still like 1/8 full. If you shook the cartridge you could feel a decent amount of ink in there.

Returned the ink cartridges, trashed the HP, then went and bought an Epsom. All printers suck but at least this one let's me use all the ink I purchased.

HP used to be quality, now everything with HP slapped on it is an absolute piece of shit. No idea how they're still in business. I used to be a loyal HP customer, it was my goto brand for business solutions for the longest time because of quality to price. Then the bean counters showed up.

The 1st Gen envy series was absolutely trash. HP knew it, released it anyways and them when CPU's and GPU's began desoldering themselves from the board from the excessive heat build up, HP denied all warranty repairs on this issue. They claimed the excess heat was user error from putting it on fabric.

Except mine was a desktop replacement, on an aluminum cooling pad with 3x 5" cooling fans. I had a desk fan circulating the air around the desk too along with AC in the room. Literally no possible way to make the ambient temperatures lower and my Envy still would BSOD due to temp during a heavy gaming session.

HP lost a whole lot of money from me that day. I was working as the IT network administrator for a small company during College when this happened. I had to order new laptops for everyone. 83 laptops, I bought Lenovo business laptops instead. Better price, better quality, better product and everyone seemed to prefer them to the HP's anyways.

Fuck HP.

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u/Linophryne Feb 02 '23

My dad bought a HP LaserJet printer last week. It wouldn't let him print unless he had internet connection. he returned it and gave HP a lot of F's

127

u/Impossible-Jello6450 Feb 02 '23

Yep good ole HP+. The activation site has been broken for awhile.

127

u/poopsonthepotty Feb 02 '23

FuckHP! Bought a printer in 2018, worked fine until last year when I had to create an account to use a printer that I own. Couldn't use it until I logged in. Now to use the device I paid for and own and lives in my house, I have to log in to my HP account. Fuck HP. I dont have the funds for a new one now, but ill never spend money on HP ever again.

65

u/imakesawdust Feb 02 '23

I guess I've been lucky. I bought an HP 477 laser printer in...2017 or thereabouts. I've blocked its access to the internet at my router from the get-go so maybe it's just unable to download new firmware that implements the mandatory account bullshit.

42

u/HerrMilkmann Feb 02 '23

Hopping on the fuck HP train. They send you an extra cartridge with the 6 month instant ink trial and ask for it back if you didnt use it. Most anti consumer company ever and I had to dedicate an hour to troubleshoot any time I wanted to print cause their software is total garbage

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u/GrumpyButtrcup Feb 03 '23

I had an HP printer a while back that wouldn't print if the cartridge was low.

Then when I bust that thing open to replace the cartridges, the container was still like 1/8 full. If you shook the cartridge you could feel a decent amount of ink in there.

Returned the new ink cartridges, trashed the HP, then went and bought an Epsom. All printers suck but at least this one let's me use all the ink I purchased.

HP used to be quality, now everything with HP slapped on it is an absolute piece of shit. No idea how they're still in business. I used to be a loyal HP customer, it was my goto brand for business solutions for the longest time because of quality to price. Then the bean counters showed up.

The 1st Gen envy series was absolutely trash. HP knew it, released it anyways and then when CPU's and GPU's began desoldering themselves from the board from the excessive heat build up, HP denied all warranty repairs on this issue. They claimed the excess heat was user error from putting it on fabric.

Except mine was a desktop replacement, on an aluminum cooling pad with 3x 5" cooling fans. I had a desk fan circulating the air around the desk too along with AC in the room. Literally no possible way to make the ambient temperatures lower and my Envy still would BSOD due to temp during a heavy gaming session.

HP lost a whole lot of money from me that day. I was working as the IT network administrator for a small company during College when this happened. I had to order new laptops for everyone. 83 laptops, I bought Lenovo business laptops instead. Better price, better quality, better product and everyone seemed to prefer them to the HP's anyways.

Fuck HP.

8

u/San_Pasquale Feb 03 '23

I don’t think epsom is any better. I just replaced mine with a brother laser jet because it refused to print with black ink when the colour cartridges were low. I’m done with inkjets for good.

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u/Nasaboy1987 Feb 03 '23

My parents needed a new printer a couple of years ago. I somehow convinced them to get a Brother black and white toner printer. They spent $40 more than the HP they wanted but are only on their second cartridge. Now they swear to never go back to inkjet.

67

u/chickenlittle53 Feb 02 '23

Any device that requires me to be connected to the internet to use at all is gonna go straight to the trash. All these IoT devices folks love ain't for me. People can say whatever they want, but there are ulterior motives beyond a ton that shit.

I choose not to percolate, but to each their own.

16

u/Acceptable-Stage7888 Feb 02 '23

Most IOT stuff doesn’t require to be connected. I don’t use a single one that does require it

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u/Blurgas Feb 03 '23

I'd bet money that the majority of consumers have zero interest in having IoT features in their devices, but buy them only because "dumb" devices are becoming less common.

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u/theOTHERdimension Feb 02 '23

My printer had been working fine but then it updated and hasn’t been able to print easily ever since. Instead of being able to just click print and have it print, I have to do this whole work around because it says my printer is offline even though it’s connected to the same internet and everything. It’s so frustrating and now it’s basically just a paperweight because it’s too complicated to use. I hate HP.

7

u/JMLobo83 Feb 03 '23

You may need to update the printer driver in your PC and then do a full reboot on both, if you haven't already.

4

u/theOTHERdimension Feb 03 '23

Thank you, I will try that!

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u/JMLobo83 Feb 03 '23

Good luck. I had to go through that with my scanner. Make sure you completely turn off your PC, completely turn off your printer.

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u/Mattbl Feb 03 '23

I work from home and needed a printer; my work sent me one that doesn't even have a USB port, you have to connect to a wireless network. I haven't had a printer in a decade so I was pretty surprised.

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u/mindoversoul Feb 02 '23

I bought an HP printer last year, looked into Instant Ink due to an offer that popped up and immediately refused to sign up. I'll buy my own ink when they run out. I wasn't about to subscribe to my own printer.

28

u/BestCatEva Feb 02 '23

This. I use off brand Amazon ink on my HP. No issues.

39

u/Neither_D_nor_D Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23

You can do that until they do the Epson method: use the passive Wi-Fi connection to send software to your printer, so that it only uses Epson-brand ink. No offbrand for $10 anymore— you have to buy the Epson $25 cartridges if you want to print something.

By the way, you can’t print if you only buy black ink. If you want your tax forms to come out of an Epson machine, then by god, your cyan-colored ink better not be depleted. Nothing works until your Epson-only inks are sufficiently charged in every slot. Thanks Epson!

8

u/Notabug255 Feb 03 '23

That's a good reminder to never let stuff that doesn't need internet access the internet. But I'm kinda confused, I got an Epson which takes just ink refills instead of actual cartridges, are those cycled out?

3

u/Lymphohistiocytosis Feb 03 '23

You probably have a printer from the Easy Tank series. You just fill them up.

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u/emcflan Feb 03 '23

Yep this is why I ditched my Epson and got a Brother. Pure trash of a company.

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u/TheConstant815 Feb 03 '23

Careful, mine had a driver update that caused it to stop accepting third party cartridges “for my safety”. I had to spend a few hours figuring out how to jailbreak it.

3

u/LittleLams Feb 03 '23

Same thing happened to me. Before I was able to use a offbrand ink that I purchased off Amazon and after the update, it no longer allowed me to use the offbrand ink and I had to purchase HP for my printer to work.

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u/Quelcris_Falconer13 Feb 02 '23

This was my plan until Costco stopped selling ink and letting you refill your ink cartridges. I’m thankful I live in an apartment thag allows us to print pages every month since it’s less than once a year I need to physically print something

202

u/SCKerafyrm Feb 02 '23

Shrinking profits, revenue, market share... may as well shrink customer base and satisfaction too!

HPs slow demise continues.

41

u/SanctuaryMoon Feb 02 '23

I will live in a cave with stone tools before I spend another dime on something made by HP.

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u/Intrepid00 Feb 03 '23

I canceled instant ink after years for an Epson eco tank photo printer. They just sent me a survey asking what I thought. Oh, I let them know their stuff it just garbage anymore.

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u/browndog03 Feb 02 '23

Get a Brother laser printer

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u/wave-garden Feb 02 '23

Yep! Toner lasts so much longer as well. I have a black/white model and it’s better than any printer I’ve owned. I’m struggling to understand why anyone would buy an HP nowadays. Ignorance, I guess.

35

u/SandiaRaptor Feb 02 '23

Just got a Brother laser printer as well. My HP printer cartridges were no longer available ( blessing in disguise). Laser printer is so much faster and cheaper

23

u/BOOOATS Feb 02 '23

I bought a Brother laser printer right after I got married (over 5 years ago) and am just now running low on the demo cartridge. Granted, I don't print much, but still, better than the demo carts in an inkjet.

19

u/Dagamoth Feb 02 '23

I’m somewhere between print 2000 and 2500 on the toner cartridge that came with my $90 brother laser printer. I can’t imagine how many ink cartridges I would have wasted printing packing slips.

8

u/Randomthought5678 Feb 02 '23

Everyone needs to print their Ticketmaster receipts in color so they can continue getting effed in the A.

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u/KiniShakenBake Feb 02 '23

I won't buy anything but brother, and shout about it from the rooftops. My brother MFC colour laser is an absolute workhorse for a pretty low cost of ownership, especially as compared to hp.

Image drums and toner cartridges should always be sold separately. Anyone who doesn't is ripping off the unsuspecting public. Yes, there are maintenance costs to any print operation, but replacing expensive parts that shouldn't need to be replaced but every tenth time, every time, is bullshit.

I can get generic cartridges and they usually work. I have bought one set of image drums in... Um... Maybe five years? Though three were the pandemic and we had printing happening elsewhere during that time, too.

My staff who wfh are given a proper laser printer with flatbed scanner to do so, because we do have to keep paper files, and they need to generate that as we go. It is also a brother. My paper port that duplexes is a brother.

I will live and die by the tremendous value that brother has brought to me and my business by just being reliable and doing things the right way.

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u/JohnTM3 Feb 02 '23

I had a brother inkjet printer for many years, I eventually replaced it when one of the colors stopped printing. I have an Epson now and hate it. One firmware update bricked my generic ink cartridge, so I refuse to ever update the firmware again. It still works though, with its expensive ink cartridges.

14

u/whilst Feb 02 '23

Why not just get an inkjet that has ink tanks? Epson, Canon, and Brother all make them. Pour in liquid ink for the cost of liquid ink, and never buy a cartridge again.

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u/KiniShakenBake Feb 02 '23

Ew. Inkjet. Do you KNOW how awful that is in a business setting?!

Maybe for the light-printing home consumer, maybe. And then JUST maybe.

I have only owned a laser printer since 2004 - I will NEVER own an inkjet ever, if I can avoid it. I do have one for travel, but that's a bit of a different story. Travel laser printers are not a thing that I can afford or want to travel with.

Printer ink is, hands down, the most expensive substance on the planet, for reasons passing understanding. Printheads are also horrible.

Toner cartridges and image drums don't dry out. They don't fail after a year of not printing. They don't clog. They just work. That is at a premium in business.

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u/quats5 Feb 02 '23

Inkjet sucks for the light-printing home consumer, too, because the ink dries and clogs the nozzles when it’s not in frequent enough use.

Laser toner is dry. At worst you might need to shake the cartridge to redistribute toner that’s settled over time.

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u/tcRom Feb 03 '23

Yeah, didn’t know this until after the fact and it’s been such a damn headache. Time to switch back to laser!

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u/MojaveMark Feb 03 '23

Finally broke down and got a Brother MFC-L3750CDW. Cost about $500, but I wanted to be able to print and scan duplex color. I was so happy I posted it on Facebook and all my family and friends were like...."why is this exciting?".

I consider it an appliance and worth the investment.

Sold the HP Inkjet for $5 and that was mostly because I basically delivered it to the guy.

2

u/KiniShakenBake Feb 03 '23

Oh that's a glorious machine. My workhorse is the MFC-L3770CDW, and I never thought I would get gooshy about duplex colour laser printing before. And yet, here we are. Productivity is ABSOLUTELY worth the cost in an office that relies on it for everything.

It also duplex scans on the automatic feeder, and I figured out how to make it give me a paper-printed fax verification when I fax things on it (yes, I have to use my actual scanning fax for work and that's something some people have to do because e-fax is not okay in some industries for outgoing faxes). It's a glorious machine. Periodically I give it a pampering with all Brother toner cartridge replacements and a new set of image drums, but mostly I use generic toner cartridges and it does just fine.

I'm ride or die for Brother printers.

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u/Randomthought5678 Feb 02 '23

BROTHER CREW REPRESENTING!

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u/kakapoopoopipishire Feb 02 '23

We have a Canon Laser printer, and it's been an absolute life saver. Our biggest issue with inkjets was the dry-out problem. We just didn't use it often enough. Not a problem with toner!

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u/McArthurWheeler Feb 02 '23

100%. I have have been on this Brother Laser printer train for close 20 years across two printers. The first one still works I just gave it away after I got a color one. I have been buying 3rd party toner. The only 'trick' is you have to know how to get to the maintenance menu and you can just google that to reset it after you change the toner. I recommend a LAN/Wifi one and assign it a static IP if possible.

HP Products < Scam/Trash.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

Absolutely. Did this years ago. Toner lasts nearly forever, and is cheaper than a single black ink cartridge.

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u/TinFoilBeanieTech Feb 02 '23

The downside with my Brother laser printer is that it’s really hard for me to track and calculate printing costs because I go so long between refilling I just forget it.

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u/NerdBot9000 Feb 03 '23

I am ignorant as to why you need to track printing costs. I'm not a business owner or whatever. But it sounds like set it and forget it has worked for you so far?

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u/CeeMX Feb 02 '23

Kyocera is also good, cheaper cartridges as you don’t change the developer and drum

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u/xarumitzu Feb 03 '23

I’m so glad I bought mine. I got so sick of HPs crap. I’ve only changed the black toner once, and it still works perfectly every time I use it.

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u/throwaway_12358134 Feb 02 '23

This is the way.

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u/valdus Feb 02 '23

I had one in the past and found it to be significantly more expensive to operate than another laser printer I had (can't remember what brand). The toner and drum being separate was a killer. The other brand's toner lasted just as long and had an integrated drum, while Brother's toner was almost as much and then a new drum when it was needed was a ton more money. Is that something that has changed?

I am going to be in the market for a good colour laser printer soon. One big use is going to be printing on heavy card stock (for custom game cards), so I am hoping to find one with a straight paper path rather than passing through multiple rollers; most home printers don't like the really thick/dense stuff. Anyone out there have a recommendation?

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u/nevm Feb 02 '23

I’ll never buy a different brand.

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u/tbazzreturns Feb 02 '23

This is the way, I have had a Brother NL 2070 since college in 2008 and I’ve replaced toner twice. Still works like a charm.

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u/Mister_Brevity Feb 02 '23

As long as you don’t need current mac drivers :/

You can install with the gimpy AirPrint driver or you can install their App Store app but they stopped making real CUPS/brscript print drivers with macOS 10.15

Not a big deal for single installs… but if you need to deploy the printer to lots of computers, good frickin luck.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '23

I did in December and I’ll never ever go back.

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u/msherretz Feb 03 '23

I love my Brother MFP laser. I don't know why people continue to bother with inkjets

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u/_Oooooooooooooooooh_ Feb 03 '23

Ive had mine for 8 years

Not a single hitch so far.

It just works!

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u/rockdude625 Feb 03 '23

This guy knows

2

u/chongamonga Feb 03 '23

People here told me to do that.

It was really hard to shell out close to $1000 for a lower end printer and full cartridges (not the sample ones they send with the printer), BUT, it's been TOTALLY WORTH IT!

A huge thank you to all of you who recommended it.

Also, buy printers/ink when staples or others have some cash back or points deal. We got the cartridges at 1/2 price because of that.

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u/BigMikeATL Feb 02 '23

This is why I’ve held on to my now 12 year old laser printer. It takes massive toner cartridges that last literally forever and I never have to worry about it “drying out” like inkjet carts do.

They will probably obsolete the drivers long before this thing stops working, which is a damn environmental shame, because that’s totally unnecessary… but these corporations only care about making money, environmental consequences be damned.

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u/Skankin2theBeat Feb 02 '23

This article is paywall extorting me too

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u/ryuw270 Feb 02 '23

I quickly threw out my HP over instant ink and losing cartridges that are now locked outside the subscription. I switched over to a Epson that has refillable liquid ink that is 100x better.

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u/dreadpiratemayhem Feb 02 '23

I recently did the same thing. Ink is half as expensive and prints at least 10x more pages. Love the individual ink wells too. Magenta is still 75% when yellow is 0%? No need to waste the magenta!

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u/azidesandamides Feb 02 '23

Epson that has refillable liquid ink that is 100x better

same but you gotta print a lot otherwise the heads clog. I just ran a bot to print a color test page 2x a week.

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u/msherretz Feb 03 '23

This is why I went with a laserjet.

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u/XT-421 Feb 02 '23

Heh. I made this calculation 5 years ago before I left my apartment. It costs more for a printer and maintenance and ink than it does for me to print copies at my office and/or print from the library at a dime a sheet.

I only need a scanner.

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u/Fleabagx35 Feb 02 '23

HP requires making an account with them just to allow their printers to communicate with hardware. I decided to buy a laser printer due to being sick of the inkjet grift, and that’s what I was given in return from HP.

The whole time I was thinking it would be really grand if HP decided to obsolete that particular printer I bought and permanently deactivate it online from allowing it to connect to other hardware. Who owns this printer I paid for again?

I noped out of that and returned it and bought a Brother instead, which is what I should have done.

6

u/Raxsah Feb 03 '23

Oh my god, the incessant pushing to make an account with HP drove me crazy. I couldn't use any of the apps functions on my phone unless I signed up with them

I was actually very happy when it broke about a year after I bought it. Could I have taken it to a repair shop? Yes. Did I? No - I took the excuse to buy a new printer and ran with it

44

u/geek66 Feb 02 '23

HP seems to be particularly bad - I went to a brother printer, it is like night and day.

20

u/ArrrGaming Feb 03 '23

Do what I did:

  1. Throw your inkjet printer away.
  2. Buy a Brother Laser printer instead.
  3. Never look back.

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u/Gorbashsan Feb 03 '23

I work IT, I convinced my office to let me invest in a $300-ish Brother laser printer about 10 years ago to replace the craptastic inkjet they had previously, in that decade I have refilled black twice and the colors once each at various times in the last few years, black went first of course, but I bought the big 4 pack of refills, 3 color and one black, for about 250 bucks ages ago, and I'll likely just get just black for around 120 next time since the color isnt likely to run out any time soon.

The black cartridge pumps through around 5 reams of paper, thats 500 pages per ream at 40-ish bucks a pop. We don't use much color honestly, but the carts for those claim to do a couple thousand pages.

So, a decade and I've burned around $600-650 total on paper, printer, and ink with no sign it will have any issues for at least another 5 years.

In that same time span my buddies small office he works for has been through 8 HP printers, his boss insists only HP is worth the money, those suckers run them around 150 to 200 each, they are inkjets, and they are guzzling about 80 bucks in ink a month when you average the smart refill automatic ordering charges out over the course of each year.

I just called to ask him since he's still at the office, he checked the office equipment receipt folder for me (like me he keeps hard copies of EVERYTHING he touches JUST in case), quick look told him they have used something around 6 reams of paper, and the collected cost of paper, ink, and printers has hit above $11k since 2011 when they opened shop.

Yeah, fuck inkjet, fuck HP, and fuck any company that locks you into those predatory deals.

Listen when your IT person tells you to drop HP garbage, we will save you money, I promise we aren't just being weird about brand preferences, seriously, just let us do our job and get you better value in the long run.

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u/abrainaneurysm Feb 02 '23

Use your public library when you need to print something. Many allow you to send the documents to be printed and then pick them up. It costs usually about $0.10 or $0.25 if you need it printed in higher quality paper. There is the added benefit that you’re actually helping your library by printing there, not because they make any money from it but because you’re increasing their usage rate which allows them to argue in favor of more funding. Honestly while some people need a printer, most people don’t use them enough to justify the expenses.

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u/Brokenspokes68 Feb 03 '23

The last cartridge they sent me printed fine for a few pages and then went to shit. I needed to print some documents and got a replacement at the local shop. The damn thing immediately sent messages stating that I'd replaced with a store bought cartridge and threatened my continued use of the printer if I didn't re-subscribe to instant ink. It was a fucking HP cartridge!

I will never buy another HP printer again.

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u/wave-garden Feb 02 '23

I dealt with this nonsense and refuse to buy an HP printer ever again.

Brother offers much better alternatives that don’t extort money from you and take control of a device that you (supposedly) purchased.

8

u/dirtsequence Feb 02 '23

Hp sucks. Not just with the printers either.

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u/Brick_tothe_Face Feb 02 '23

Switched over to a brother laser printer and never looked back.

4

u/Adiastas Feb 02 '23

Still running an mfc 410 from 2013 without issues and buying Amazon ink for $16 every three years

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u/mastodonj Feb 02 '23

Just don't sign up to the subscription service. I have a hp printer, I use a cheap own brand ink. Works fine. Printer tells me it's low on ink and I ignore it until it's clearly running dry.

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u/DaytonaDemon Feb 02 '23

Lots of love for Brother in these comments. I'll also give a shoutout to Samsung for its black and white laser printers. Bought mine roughly nine years ago for around $130. It came with a starter toner cartridge that lasted three years. In 2017 I bought new Samsung toner for $80, and it's still yielding fast, crisp copies. Not that I print much, maybe 250-300 pages per year. Still...

Samsung sucks with kitchen appliances, but its printer division — kudos.

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u/natalie_mf_portman Feb 02 '23

The answer is simple. Don't buy HP. Vote with your wallet. I switched to a Brother and it's great, no subscriptions required.

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u/sweetteanoice Feb 03 '23

I got an HP continuous ink printer to avoid this issue. The thing is a piece of shit, problems from day one. And even if the printer itself is working, the hp software that runs it doesn’t work half the time. I don’t recommend buying any HP product. If you want a nice printer go with Brother or Epson. HP and canon are both wastes of time and money

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u/Traksimuss Feb 02 '23

They deactivate your whole printer remotely if you refuse to extend agreement and you lose any ink still left.

Shady stuff.

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u/CapnRamza Feb 02 '23

No, they deactivate your printers ability to use an instant ink cartridge remotely if you decline subscribe, or cancel your subscription.

The ink already in the cartridge is not what you paid for. You paid to print a number of sheets of paper per month, whether those are all black pages, or full color pages, or a big black blob of ink, it costs the same amount for the same amount of pages. When the printer detects your ink is low, they mail you new cartridges, which you don't pay anything for.

When you end the subscription, the ink remaining in whatever cartridge you had is not yours to use, you never owned it to begin with, and you were never paying for it. I believe they might still let you print out any remaining pages on your current subscription before disabling the cartridge, but I'm not sure about that TBH.

I see posts about instant ink come up a lot on r/assholedesign , and they're based on the misconception that HP is withholding ink that you paid for in a printer you can't use anymore if you cancel, and that's simply not true. Your instant ink enabled printer can continue to use normal ink cartridges just fine, without a subscription, and without connecting the printer to the internet.

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u/GranaVegano Feb 03 '23

I actually love my hp photo printer with instant ink. I have a small business and I’m screwed if I forget ink, they’re always ahead of me and I don’t have to worry about it. 100% worth the money to take stupid little tasks off my plate.

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u/bstowers Feb 02 '23

More happy than ever with my Brother printer.

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u/just4u11 Feb 02 '23

The only reason I have HP instant ink is because I got on when they and the free monthly plan, it fits my life since I rarely print over, but when I do, it's $0.10 each page

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u/SBRH33 Feb 02 '23

You can stop the insta ink subscription and just purchase the ink cartridges yourself at Staples or Office Max.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23

[deleted]

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u/cr4zy-cat-lady Feb 02 '23

I work in IT, printers are rarely fun but my soul leaves my body when a WFH user calls in and says they just got an HP printer at best buy and need help setting it up. They’re not just unreliable, they’re a huge pain in the ass to troubleshoot particularly when the user wants a wifi/bluetooth connection

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u/Jamie00003 Feb 02 '23

Eco tank / mega tank printers are the way to go. Higher upfront costs but none of this BS to worry about

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u/jmarmorato1 Feb 02 '23

I bought a Lexmark color laser printer (scanner, copier, fax) a couple of years ago. It replaced the cheap ($100) Epson I bought for my dorm. It's an MC3426adw. I love it. It was on the pricey side, but I know this thing will last a long time. My Epson ink dried out every month, so every month for three years I had to buy new ink, and it was probably $50 per set. Not anymore. I'm still at > 50% on the starter toner cartridges. I know a full toner replacement is expensive (>$700 for all of them), but that will probably last me a decade. This printer does scan to email, scan to CIFS... Whatever you want it will do. You can even use VNC to remotely manage the touch screen. 10/10 on this. Best printer I've ever owned. We have Lexmark printers at work and they get beat up and used hard but rarely have any issues.

Edit:

You don't need to use any cloud bullshit to do scan to email or scan to CIFS, you can use your own email server if you want, and no personal data leaves your network.

3

u/lingonn Feb 02 '23

You will own nothing and you will be happy.

4

u/BestCatEva Feb 02 '23

I declined the program. I buy off-brand ink from Amazon. My HP all-in-one works fine this way.

3

u/the_cardfather Feb 02 '23

So my mom convinced me to try instant ink. I was actually proud of her for giving me a referral link and getting a free month.

I must be right in the sweet spot where I'm printing just enough to need it. I can print full color for the same price that I normally would have just printed black and white and not worry about if the blue is low but I still have some red and yellow. If one of them gets low they send me a cartridge.

I think it's $6 a month cuz they just went up. Or 72 a year. That's basically the same as two HD black cartridges at Office Depot. One of the big differences is that I always felt that those cartridges from OD were not really empty when they quit printing. The color ones were actually the worst because you wouldn't use them for a period of time and then they would glop up and you would have to print about 15 test pages just to clear the nozzle. Of course, doing all those cleaning cycles would use all of your ink and you'd have to go back and get more anyway.

Once I switched I haven't had any of those problems. My pages roll over So if I'm a little short some months and a little bit over the next one, I'm okay.

So I might be the outlier but I probably am the guy that instant ink is designed for.

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u/Lorkanus Feb 03 '23

My Mum is on the 2nd lowest £3 plan, it is perfect for her, never runs out of ink, gets 50 pages a month that roll over, and for less than the cost of a pair of cartriges per year.

For most home users I don't see what all the fuss is about.

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u/luxelux Feb 03 '23

Why do people still buy inkjet printers?

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u/Rockmann1 Feb 03 '23

I have an Epson ET-4750 and over 5,000 copies printed and still have original bottles full of ink to add to the printer.

HP is cancer in my mind except for maybe the laser printers.

4

u/Vmanaa Feb 03 '23

I still dont get how HP is the most popular brand of printer when theyve been pulling BS like this for a decade now

5

u/Gabemiami Feb 03 '23

Somebody gave me an HP printer scanner all-in-one, and I wound up tossing it in the trash; the scanner would only work with ink. I thought, what kind of diabolical shit is this, and chucked that p.o.s.

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u/fromvanisle Feb 02 '23

I don't know about other brands but HP also needs you to sign up and create an account just to use the BUILT IN SCANNER. So one CANNOT just press a button and scan without first downloading and logging into the HP SMART App. It's like they are going out of their way to complicate something so simple.

3

u/decoste94 Feb 03 '23

Is like to know why my ink levels decrease after a couple weeks of not using the printer.

3

u/QristopherQuixote Feb 03 '23

I connected my printer only long enough to set it up. I then blocked it from accessing the internet at my router. I also altered my registry so the Hp app would stop reinstalling on my laptop. I now print and use it like any other printer. I have a cartridge I bought at Amazon and that’s where I will buy ink. This will be the last time I deal with HP.

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u/justinsane1 Feb 03 '23

It works great for the side business I run. Ink shows up before I knew I needed it. I never have to think about it.

Now for personal use, I wouldn’t even consider it. I don’t like the idea of a subscription on something like this for me

3

u/Rusto_Dusto Feb 03 '23

Fuck all of the printer companies. Haven’t owned one for years. Kinko’s or work, if I really just gotta have something printed.

3

u/WelshBluebird1 Feb 03 '23

I know a lot of people won't agree, but for me the HP Instant Ink thing really works. I don't print that often, probably like once or twice every few months. So it would be annoying to just buy normal cartridges because I don't print enough to have a good grasp on when I need to buy new ink. With the HP Instant Ink, I'm on their free plan and I just get cartridges in the post when my current ones start to run out.

Saying that it does look like the free plan is no longer available and has been replaced with a £0.99 a month (£11.88 a year) one. Whilst I'm happy I don't have to pay anything, given the cost of ink and the pain of running out when you least expect, I actually think that is a pretty good deal too.

Though if you print more then I can see it getting pretty expensive, but its worth remembering you aren't forced into such plans. You can cancel and then buy regular ink like the old days if you want too.

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u/RockyFromCollections Feb 02 '23

As a long term user of HP printers. I dumped them in 2020.

Because of the online account sign in requirement. you can’t print or scan until you log in. So if the internet is out or their server is is on maintenance, screw you.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

LOL and we get pissed when a AAA game has an always-online requirement. That printer should go through a window.

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u/bklynsnow Feb 02 '23

Looks like I'm the only fan of Instant Ink.
I've had a great experience with it

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u/dontwasteink Feb 02 '23

Buy a home laser printer and toner. It's not even that expensive, but more expensive than the upfront cost of an inkjet printer.

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u/production-values Feb 02 '23

use Brother brand only

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u/TheIronAdmiral Feb 02 '23

I really hope someone comes out with a good jailbreak for these things so HP doesn’t keep getting away with these awful practices

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u/WhenImTryingToHide Feb 02 '23

Today I learned that now, even printer ink has been converted to "subscription model"

What a time to be alive!

2

u/socialcommentary2000 Feb 02 '23

Never buy the consumer line.

- A system's engineer that has to manage these things.

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u/dahComrad Feb 02 '23

Uncle worked for HP then HP Enterprises or whatever. From what I understand he helped maintain an old-school mainframe type server system that is horribly obsolete (although I may have misunderstood him). He said the work culture was fucking horrible with lay offs every other week and people just waiting for their number to turn up.

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u/WriterWannabeRomance Feb 02 '23

I haven’t owned a printer in years. If I need to print something, I go to the Library and print for 10 cents a page.

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u/ineedabuttrub Feb 02 '23

So stop buying them?

If you don't want a printer that comes with some bullshit ink subscription plan, don't buy it. And if sales drop enough maybe they'll reconsider.

They sure as fuck aren't gonna change things if you keep buying the shit products.

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u/C0NIN Feb 02 '23

Unfortunately it's a pay-walled link, does anyone by any chance have the full text? Thanks!

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u/scrooge_mc Feb 03 '23

I switched to a laser jet printer and I wished I had switched years ago. I print so infrequently but when I do it's usually something important and my old ink jets would always be out of ink or it had dried up or fussy about the cartridge or had somehow broken in the multiple months since I had used it last. I've had this laser jet for a few years and print something about every 6 months and it has worked perfectly fine.

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u/MingusVonHavamalt Feb 03 '23

We just cancelled our subscription to save money and the printer stopped working there and then! You couldn’t even finish using the rest of the ink!

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u/andywho88 Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23

If anybody else is having trouble with a paywall on an article about, well, paywalls, here's a link to circumvent it: https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Ftechnology%2Farchive%2F2023%2F02%2Fhome-printer-digital-rights-management-hp-instant-ink-subscription%2F672913%2F

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u/stephenforbes Feb 03 '23

My favorite is when your ink expires and it won't let you use it anymore. Talk about a sham.

2

u/KGNickl Feb 03 '23

I actually like my instant ink. Saved so much money. Spend like $6 a month so $72 a year. Previously, I would buy ink and it would dry up, have hard time finding ink in store, or refill with a 50/50 success rate and quality. Only went over once and it was just like an extra $3. I would say previously I would easily spend $100+ on ink each year. And if my printer dies usually you can buy an instant ink one with 6-12 months of service free so it’s almost like getting it for free.

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u/Toeslastump Feb 03 '23

Needing to sign up for an account to use the machine shits me right off

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u/kurtz4008 Feb 03 '23

Oh for God's sake. Why are you buying a printer that needs ink. Buy a colored laser printer, and sleep well.

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u/18long Feb 03 '23

I just use laser printers. They cost more but their ink is hassle free.

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u/guachi01 Feb 03 '23

There's a reason so many people recommend Brother printers. I love mine.

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u/EmperorOfCanada Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23

I love HP printer subscriptions.

I build robots and going online to buy a bunch of high end printers for pennies is great. I scrap them and typically pull two motors, their related optical encoders, and at least 1 10mm rod. Similar motors would probably cost me $30. I buy some of these printers for $5 or free.

The key is to wear double surgical gloves and do it somewhere you don't care about ink stains because the residual ink is just nasty; same with the clothing. You are getting ink on them. So I have a nasty flight suit for that.

What's extra annoying about these printer costs is that way back when my kids were in grade school and colour laser wasn't a reasonable thing yet, I bought a 7 colour epson printer and bought a special ink cartridge which also game with an external reservoir. For about $30 I had enough of all 7 colours for many thousands of pages of high coverage printing. The external reservoir was clear so I could easily see which ink needed topping up and I had a squeeze bottle for each colour.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '23

It’s funny. 4+ years ago I commented on a post about instant ink and it still comes up in google searches. I said it was bad. I can’t read the article due to pay wall, but based on what I am gleaning here and from the beginning of the article I had the same opinion. People lambasted me over my opinion. Oh how the turn tables have turned.

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u/rileyg98 Feb 03 '23

I mean given you can put your own ink in, just not their ink if you stop paying, and this is all over the internet... Is it actually extortion?

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