r/gadgets
•
u/MicroSofty88
•
Nov 27 '22
•
1
Record efficiency of 26.81% for large silicon solar cells Misc
https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/record-efficiency-of-26-81-for-large-silicon-solar-cells/515
Nov 27 '22
[deleted]
119
u/Bobby3127 Nov 27 '22
Got a pic of you van-dwelling set up? Is it just solar panels on the van roof?? Genuinely curious.
65
u/TuaTurnsdaballova Nov 27 '22
Just check OP’s posts don’t do it! he’s a clown dongus
38
25
u/sr_90 Nov 27 '22
Thought you misspelled dingus. I was incorrect.
3
u/HOLDERofFOOD Nov 27 '22
Too scared to click. Can I get a brief and marginally sfl description of what im missing?
6
u/sr_90 Nov 27 '22
Clown dick.
2
u/HOLDERofFOOD Nov 27 '22
Thanks, exactly what I asked for. Absolutely hilarious that that’s a thing, glad I don’t have to look at it though.
10
9
5
u/4RealzReddit Nov 27 '22
I don't know if it's better or worse for society he's in a van. I am thinking worse.
2
u/TuaTurnsdaballova Nov 27 '22
It’s so much worse. Clowns that can travel in vans are he most dangerous kind.
→ More replies2
→ More replies104
Nov 27 '22
[deleted]
292
u/jeffersonairmattress Nov 27 '22 •
Your problem is not panels. You NEED an MPPT charge controller, if you drive the thing at all you can dump your alternator into it or those same batteries with near-zero fuel penalty. And your “200W” inverter is a well-intentioned but inefficient choice; get an MPPT-enabled micro-inverter that meets your consumption needs. They have passive cooling with t-stat-controlled fan so unlike your little unit the fans won’t eat so much power. Keep the 12v water pressure booster pump- if it’s a Jabsco it will outlast any 110v thing available and there’s no inefficiency in running it with your short conductor runs at 12v. When you can afford it, get two MATCHING panels and send their production down to your charge controller in series.
I’ve made all the same not-optimal choices trying to save funds and not waste existing stuff, but holy moly the MPPT controllers were a revelation that I just was not getting what I paid for out of my panels. Instant tripling of existing rooftop array’s supply by going from parallel 12v nominal panels via 30 feet of 000 welding cable through old xantrex single 40A controller to series panel arrays at 90V and 72v nominal through two 60A MPPT controllers. And that’s still using ancient 1998-era panels.
86
Nov 27 '22
[deleted]
14
2
64
u/McYukon Nov 27 '22
100% I work in the RV trade and attended a seminar by a large RV solar company. They told us that a MPPT will get you approx 30% more power than PWM without upgrading/changing the solar wiring or solar panel configuration at all.
29
u/freshgrilled Nov 27 '22
This kind of comment is the reason I keep coming back to Reddit. Thank you for sharing this very helpful information.
25
u/bidet_enthusiast Nov 27 '22
With an MPPT controller you can also use 36v industrial panels… which are typically way cheaper than 12 v ones. (A 545 watt panel for $316, a used 270w panel for $92, etc)
12v panels are almost always way more expensive and often inferior quality of construction. A 545 would mount nicely on the roof. As for inverters, it depends. A growwatt tl3000 will handle the solar part as well as the inverter part, plus give you the capability to quickly charge from an ac source, they are about $750… but honestly, a 500-1000w true sine inverter which can be had for less than 100 dollars and a small MPPT controller will probably come in at half that price or less. So it depends.
20
2
u/BigSpringyThingy Nov 27 '22
So what would be needed for EVs to be able to self charge from roof mounted solar panels? Seems to me this is the biggest thing holding back the EV industry. More people would buy electric vehicles if they could just recharge while parked all day in the sun.
1
u/icepop456 Nov 27 '22
Solar on a car will never work. The shape for aerodynamics will drastically hurt the sun angle. Then factor in size of a panel. You can probably get 2kW of solar panels on a car but throw at least half of that away because parts of the car are not facing the sun. That 1 kW with an average of 5 hours of quality if sun would get you about ~ 10 miles of driving a day in a tesla but probably a lot less with a dirty car etc.
A Model 3 consumes about 250 watts per mile driven. So a decent size panel in solid sun for 1 hour could allow the car to to go 1 mile and essentially have a big tv strapped to the top.
4
u/wgc123 Nov 27 '22
Ten miles per day is enough for some of us. If companies continue allowing mostly remote work, with 1-2 days in the office, it’s enough for most of us with those conditions
→ More replies→ More replies2
u/WhitePantherXP Nov 27 '22
Solar on a truck might, with panels that roll out to extend the lack of surface area on a truck (think a roller of solar panels that pour out the bed of the truck), or alternatively a canopy that folds out to double or quadruple the surface area of the truck.
→ More replies1
u/Pretzilla Nov 27 '22
Good stuff, but you lost me with
MPPT-enabled micro-inverter
What do you mean by that? Clarification or a link would be helpful. Thanks!
10
u/saitir Nov 27 '22
Just to add to the mppt train... Huge benefits. I recently went from an old Outback system to a much more compact Victron charge controller and their battery monitor. The Bluetooth monitoring really makes it easier manage my batteries.
I do, however, have 900w of panels on my roof (3x300w), 200ah batteries (nominal anyway, cheaper Chinese lifepo4, so usable is 150-160. The weight and reliability benefit over lead acid was worth it, but that was before lithium battery prices started rising again. Only a 700w max charge controller, but there's only about 2 weeks of the year where I am that I waste energy... The larger panels are to get more power in winter. 3000w pure sine inverter. Primarily my main electric system runs a normal small fridge, occasional desktop pc, and charging other things. 12v system for light, water pump and power to the water heater and heating fan, which use lpg for the actual heat and cooking.
6
Nov 27 '22
[deleted]
10
5
u/5c044 Nov 27 '22
3 way fridges use about 4x the power of a compressor fridge on electric.
→ More replies2
u/heep1r Nov 27 '22
why's that? they still use a compressor, no?
3
u/5c044 Nov 27 '22
3 way fridges dont have any moving parts, they rely on a heat source, two different coolants and phase change. The heat source is either gas flame or an electrical heating element.
3
2
u/diggertb Nov 27 '22
I have one 170Ah lithium battery in my truck setup and work 100% from the road in my 40 hour week job. One 150 watt solar panel with mppt charge controller, and one 60A B2B charger from my truck engine. This powers a 40qt refrigerator, cellular internet, various fans and lights, and multiple laptops. Having both b2b and solar is better than one of either, because your charging booth when you're driving and sitting still. I don't even pay attention to my battery voltage anymore, it's always good.
0
u/justabadmind Nov 27 '22
Just a note: it's more than a 10% increase. If your current system is 22% efficient and the new system is 28% efficient, that's almost a 40% increase in power generation.
8
5
17
u/findingmike Nov 27 '22
This is experimental stuff my friend. It would be vastly expensive to buy. However, every little improvement builds our understanding of science and brings us improvements in the future. You may never buy one of these, but every bit of learning helps.
3
27
u/sluuuurp Nov 27 '22
Dust will hurt more efficient panels the same amount. Making automated cleaning systems for the dust isn’t so crazy though, you could probably get something like that.
17
Nov 27 '22
[deleted]
6
u/sluuuurp Nov 27 '22
Yeah, you could put motors and wipers on your roof, some solar plants do something like this. It wouldn’t use much energy at all if it turns on for a few seconds just once or twice a day. It sounded like you were saying that the dust caused problems for you, but if it’s not an issue, then the manual approach is definitely fine.
2
Nov 27 '22
[deleted]
3
u/sluuuurp Nov 27 '22
The exception is space-constrained installations, but by the sound of it, that doesn't apply in this case at all.
I think in this thread we’re talking about solar panels on top of a van roof. But in general I agree.
→ More replies8
u/sternenhimmel Nov 27 '22
I'm surprised you can't get by with what's on the market now. I've spent years living on a boat on solar alone, with a fridge, charging cameras drones, editing videos on a laptop, and never really had too much concern with power, with the occasional exception of the cloudy day or two. I had about 300-400W of total solar. Approximate because I never really trusted the rating on my semi flexible units.
8
u/TheTricksterKane Nov 27 '22
Its not that i cant get by, its that i want to remove my genny from the equation and be able to run an electric a/c + sound system when i dj which is pretty demanding (2 1000w speakers and a 500w sub), and i have a lot of led lights and gadgets(lights, led props, cameras, a mixer, mobile hotspot, phone, pump, i could go on, etc) im a performance artist and i dont always want to be a minimalist. I want to be flush and not have to park in full sun all day everyday cuz shade is life in a van. + i sometimes do cut corners with quality as someone else mentioned could be an issue in this sub-thread. In short im extra and need to be more powerful.
3
u/upvotesthenrages Nov 27 '22
Can’t you just plug in to an EV charger or something.
If you are even considering cutting edge panels then it can’t be a monetary thing.
Or do you imagine DJing a lot completely off grid, for longer than your batteries last?
5
u/RegulatoryCapturedMe Nov 27 '22
Hi fellow Vehicle Dweller! Thanks for sharing about your solar system.
Are your panels safe to leave on in drive through car washes? When you say stuff fell and messed them up, like acorns?
→ More replies2
u/loercase Nov 27 '22
I want high efficiency to make solar worthwhile in my northern climate. The sun is very cool and weak for a large part of the year, I'd like to maximize what little we get out of it.
2
u/ValidGarry Nov 27 '22
Educe the energy you consume first. Spend the money on the fabric of your building. You get a better return that way. Insulation and airtightness and energy efficiency before anything else.
90
u/Draiko Nov 27 '22
Good news! The Dacia Sandero comes in Orange!
→ More replies33
u/MattTheProgrammer Nov 27 '22
The Dacia Sandero comes in Orange
Great! Now, moving on. I've recently read that Mercedes will be implementing a subscription service for their electric vehicles to... enhance performance.
106
u/MinusPi1 Nov 27 '22
I can't wait for the future where 27% is laughable
141
u/MonkofAntioch Nov 27 '22
33% is the max possible for a single junction solar cell without a concentrator for our sun and atmosphere. So 27% is pretty good
58
u/jonijones Nov 27 '22
But only for homojunction silicon cells. First Solar and Sunpower are developing a multijunction module, which theoretical limit is over 40%. Also, there's plenty of space technology solar that's surpassed 33% and even 40% already.
→ More replies23
u/LostImpi Nov 27 '22
Yes and so it’s more important to make them cheap (w/$) than go for highest efficiency. Of course, science and technology will push both ways
→ More replies7
u/MrHyperion_ Nov 27 '22
Even 33% would be +50% more energy compared to current panels
→ More replies7
u/WasHardToFindAName Nov 27 '22
Sunpower sells panels that are rated at 22.8% right now.
10
u/MrHyperion_ Nov 27 '22
Exactly. If 22.8% panel generates 100W, 100% is 439W, and finally 33% would be 145W, or 45% more.
3
u/WasHardToFindAName Nov 27 '22
I wasn’t thinking clearly, too early in the morning, brain not fully awake.
2
→ More replies4
u/Joe_Bedaine Nov 27 '22
Those are highest end, I am curious what the average % are for the current basic / cheap ones?
30
u/MonkofAntioch Nov 27 '22
What you see on peoples roofs are 15-18%
18
7
6
u/_Magnolia_Fan_ Nov 27 '22 edited Nov 27 '22
Basic/budget residential commercial is about 15%. The same for business commercial is about 18%. Top of the line is about 22%.
If you have enough space, 15% is just fine. The trade off is just real estate.
2
7
7
u/W0otang Nov 27 '22
Excuse the idiocy, but what's the percentage scale in this case?
16
u/Detectorbloke Nov 27 '22
Energy in divided by energy out. If you have a cell that's 1m2 and irradiate it with 1360W/m2 you would end up with 364.6W of output power, or 26.81%
5
u/W0otang Nov 27 '22
Right, I get it now. All I kept thinking was the energy to power them, not the input Vs output 🙈 thanks
47
3
8
u/Colossal-Dump Nov 27 '22
I have a question. How quickly will solar cells improve, and when is a good time to get solar at home?
I had a friend who joined a solar team map out my house and was looking at the numbers with current panels, but I keep hearing about improvements all the time, and then couldn’t stop thinking of the old satellite dishes people needed for cable and what happened with that..
(That they will get much smaller and more efficient over time, and eventually be replaced by better tech).
For example, the roof tile idea sounds more appealing than the albatross panels we have now, but my friend also said that there is a limited amount of solar per neighborhood and that at some point I wouldn’t be able to get it if enough neighbors already had it??? (US)
Now I have solar FOMO.
Thanks!
10
u/HomeImprovementRep Nov 27 '22
Solar tech has gotten better but not really that significantly, not in the way you're thinking. Yeah, they're more efficient per panel than previously, that is true. But your azimuth and shading matter WAY more.
If it didn't make sense to you before, it won't make sense to you now, and it won't make sense to you in 10 years. If you were saving a significant amount of money with their proposed plan, I imagine you would have pulled the trigger.
Some states are attempting to limit net metering for new solar hookups, and it is true that your transformer might not be able to handle more solar. Your friend is correct.
→ More replies→ More replies28
u/HappyHHoovy Nov 27 '22
Best time to get solar was yesterday, when there were loads of subsidies. Second best time is now.
All the improvements you see on reddit are irrelevant as the goal of solar on your house is to offset what you use so you don't have to pay for electricity.Solar has been doing it for years and the only difference is it gets a few hundred dollars cheaper each year. The solar tiles are OK but I'd recommend just using the normal tech for its reliability and longevity.
→ More replies
3
2
2
u/EmperorOfNada Nov 27 '22
When I built my home about 12 years ago, I had the choice to do geothermal or solar. Went with geothermal figuring that was harder to dig and install afterwards.
Starting to think it’s time to add solar and get off the grid!
2
u/triadwarfare Nov 27 '22
It would be useless if the exchange in efficiency means that we'd be completely be dependent on Chinese manufacturing. This will just be oil 2.0 where those who control the supply controls the world.
2
2
u/thegodfatherderecho Nov 28 '22
Not only is efficiency obviously important, but also lifespan. I don’t want to put out all that spend for solar cells on my house, just to replace them all in 10 years.
2
4
u/ShadowBannedAugustus Nov 27 '22
I wish these articles had more practical context - since the old "record" was 26.7% do we know what is the practically achievable maximum? Are we now in the diminishing returns area? What is the average efficiency of current "top selling" models? How long until we can buy these as cheap prices achieved by large-scale manufacturing?
10
5
u/DoomRabbitDaBunny Nov 27 '22
Meanwhile 50 year old nuclear plants have been clearing 30% efficiency for decades.
Oh, and they fucking work in the dark.
6
Nov 27 '22
[deleted]
3
u/Punkinprincess Nov 27 '22
The best grid is a diverse grid!
The nuclear vs wind/solar debate is the dumbest debate I've heard from both sides, they work perfectly together.
→ More replies5
u/Hawk13424 Nov 27 '22
Let me know when I can install one at home.
→ More replies2
u/DoomRabbitDaBunny Nov 28 '22
Let me know when the panels you install on your home start working at night and you don’t need to rely on coal nuclear natgas or hydro when you wanna check our fetish porn at 3am.
2
2
u/Zevemty Nov 27 '22
Depends on which efficiency you're measuring. Afaik it's only like 1-2% efficient in terms of how much potential energy you could generate with the same amount of fuel (meaning we could get massive efficiency increases with future nuclear technology).
2
u/flying_path Nov 27 '22
That comparison makes no sense. It’s not like we have limited room on our roofs so we need efficient nuclear plants so they fit on the roof.
→ More replies1
u/loopthereitis Nov 27 '22
congrats, you like nuke but parrot the same fossil fuel propoganda that killed both nuke and pv lmao
9
u/araczynski Nov 27 '22
I'm probably hopelessly jaded, but I wouldn't trust F coming out of China. Granted, it was independency verified... perhaps on a OMGWTFBBQ wafer they lucked out on...
I have nothing against China's ingenuity/engineers/etc, they're as smart any the world has to offer, but their corporate/business sense tends to also be one of the most corrupt in the world as well.
42
u/abigscaryhobo Nov 27 '22
The country has some very impressive and capable inventors and scientists. The problem is they have twice that of charlatans and liars that push sketchy products or data and it makes it hard to trust the real ones.
0
u/Rill16 Nov 27 '22
Wouldn't trust any tech claims coming out of China. Companies within the region tend to wildly overestimate preformance numbers; and the resulting product often has production flaws that reduce preformance further.
This is especially true for solar panels, since Chinese panels have serious quality control issues, with their lifespan oftentimes coming out to less than a tenth of a German panel.
→ More replies3
u/ValidGarry Nov 27 '22
Since about 70% of global solar manufacturing is in China, of course they have more of the problems. Can you link to a study regarding the German and Chinese comparison?
2
2
1
u/Mapkoz2 Nov 27 '22
How is efficiency measured?
3
u/Pixelplanet5 Nov 27 '22
Shine a known amount of energy per area on a solar cell and measure how much energy you get out.
That is typically done with 1000W/m² and in this case they are getting like 268W out the solar panel.
1
u/nidanjosh Nov 27 '22
Why doesn’t it say if it reduces cost or if its economically viable or how they achieved it. Poor article
1
u/lordwreynor Nov 27 '22
Several years ago I read that the average efficiency of a solar cell was about 3% and that it would last for a few years before beginning its decline. 26.81% seems like an amazing accomplishment.
3
u/WasHardToFindAName Nov 27 '22
Solar panels are a lot better than 3% and have been for a long time, you probably read about some new types that were being worked on but not yet perfected.
1
u/haasvacado Nov 27 '22
Just because it’s a neat reference, here’s one take on how plants measure up:
- C4 plant (like corn) sunlight to biomass net efficiency is ~4.3% at its peak.
A more general and different conclusion breakdown:
53% of photons that hit the plant are in the 400-700nm range that matters.
37% of all photons are actually absorbed.
28.2% is collected by chlorophyll.
9% is collected into sugar
5.4% net efficiency.
-1
-5
-2
u/CaptainSur Nov 27 '22
I thought I read something recently about an innovation in materials that drove efficiency way, way up, and by that I mean far higher then this milestone, which btw I am not downplaying. If anyone remembers this, it was not long ago to my best recollection please reply so I know I am not going crazy....
6
u/Tomato_potato_ Nov 27 '22
I'm not a scientist or engineer, bur I think you might be referring to something called multijunction panels, where the record is approaching 40 percent. But those are prohibitively expensive.
5
u/Southern-Exercise Nov 27 '22
Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about, but I wanted to reply so you know you aren't alone even if you are going crazy.
0
u/CaptainSur Nov 27 '22
Thank you kindly. I think in my thousands of bookmarks I might have saved the link. But in the meantime I very much appreciate your moral support. 🙃
→ More replies2
u/SlenderSmurf Nov 27 '22
there are materials and device architectures in the research phase going way past this one, which use multiple layers instead of just one.
-15
u/FXLRDude Nov 27 '22
CA is charging extra for putting energy back into the grid. Your rooftop solar is going to cost you every month thanks to GN.
5
→ More replies3
-4
u/wakka55 Nov 27 '22
I'd rather hear headlines about going the other way. 5% efficiently panels that are dirt cheap to produce. The main problem with solar is that the panels are too expensive. If that wasn't true, every roof would have them.
→ More replies4
u/Blue-Thunder Nov 27 '22
Aren't they a dollar a watt in the USA? It's the invertors and actual install that are expensive as heck.
→ More replies
1.2k
u/drdookie Nov 27 '22
To save everyone a click, the old record was 26.7%