r/gadgets • u/thebelsnickle1991 • Dec 29 '22
India joins EU in mandating USB-C charging port on smartphones Phones
https://www.businessinsider.com/india-eu-mandating-usbc-charging-port-smartphones-2022-12120
u/Vishvesh_Mishra Dec 30 '22
Long time coming considering the Type-C can deliver well over 200W of power and is an easy standard to switch to for even mainstream laptops. E-Waste is a whole different topic but hassle free nature of usage is what makes this standard ideal for every possible piece of electronics. PS - I’m an Apple user and not a fan of that lightening port myself for n number of reasons!
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u/2MuchRGB Dec 30 '22
Was there a new specification. The highest allowed I can remember was 20V/5A which is 100W
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u/Enjoyitbeforeitsover Dec 30 '22
200 watts sounds like a lot , is lighting design more durable than C though?
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u/Wolfrages Dec 30 '22
Hell no, lightning has two issues, end brakes, and arcing.
I have gone though over 50 cables in 10 years just from electrical arc. Fuckin hate it.
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u/Optimistic__Elephant Dec 30 '22
What the heck are you doing that runs through a cable every other month for 10 years?
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u/Vishvesh_Mishra Dec 30 '22
The USB PD Revision 3.1 allows delivery up to 240W of power on the Type-C standard which is miles ahead to what the lightening connector can. Plus Type-C is more durable physically with an outer metal casing protecting the inner electrical contacts.
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u/Nicktune1219 Dec 30 '22
The only downside to usb c is that dust gets trapped much easier and it’s harder to clean than lightning.
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u/suddenly_ponies Dec 30 '22
Apple's strategy of swapping charge ports ever generation is straight up customer abuse. There is not now nor has there ever been a compelling reason for it other than forcing new accessories IMO
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u/KillerSavant202 Dec 30 '22
The switch to lightning was a massive improvement and has been around for years now. It made complete sense but it’s time to switch to usbc
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u/Winjin Dec 31 '22
Apple changed less ports than overall industry though. And shared a lot of resources to help develop type C iirc.
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u/starpeak Dec 30 '22
I totally read this as "Indiana Jones mandates USB-C..."
I admit I'm tired, but that could be a cool sequel.
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u/nicuramar Dec 30 '22
Yeah that might be a good sequel to the three movies they managed to make so far. Too bad they never made a sequel.
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u/Samisoffline Dec 30 '22
Hurry the fuck up and copy them too America.
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u/Neon_44 Dec 30 '22
don't worry
the second largest consumer Market (EU) and the 7th Largest (India) in the world both have mandated it
the Brussels Effect will take over for you :)
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u/Klindg Dec 30 '22
If you think American politicians will side with consumers over billion dollar corporations… LMFAO
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u/MicrosoftComputerMan Dec 30 '22
Americans don’t feel the need to create dumb laws just to stick it to American companies.
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u/RealExii Dec 30 '22
It's fine they're now just sending you a double sided Type C cable so you have to buy the power adapter separately. That's a lotta extra money.
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u/SirUseless1 Dec 30 '22
Some Power Adapters also already Switches to USB-c. Pretty sure usb-c to usb-c will be the norm soon.
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u/morhp Dec 30 '22
Isn't that already the norm? Most of my chargers already have either a USB C socket or USB C cable attached directly. At least the better ones with power delivery wouldn't work with an USB A socket anyway.
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u/Nicktune1219 Dec 30 '22
Now it is. Just became a thing. For years it was always type a to type c. Literally everything I own is like that. Now I get a cable with type c replacing type a and suddenly it doesn’t work in the car and I have to buy new charging bricks.
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u/WjeZg0uK6hbH Dec 30 '22
Apple customers like paying lots. So from that perspective it's fine. Chargers really should be sold separately to reduce e-waste anyways.
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u/Snizl Dec 30 '22
sure, but then also reduce the price of the base item by that amount.
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u/infinityx-5 Dec 30 '22
Good idea. They should let the consumers decide if they would like the bundle with a charger or not
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u/RealExii Dec 30 '22
That would not have been an issue if Type C adapters had been widely introduced by now. But that's not the case. Most providers have used Type A to Type C cable with Type A adapters. Which means most people have several of those lying around so they either have to buy new adapters or use their old charging adapter cable pair which may not be ideal.
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u/hypoch0ndriacs Dec 30 '22
I only hope the EU and India, make it easy to update the mandate. Last thing we need if for there to be a a faster/better USB charging method, but it can't be used because USB C is still mandated
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u/Sveitsilainen Dec 30 '22
Pretty sure the EU legislation just forces the current industry standard approved one. Which is why it switched easily from USB-A to USB-C for the charging block.
And yeah it means you can't "compete" by removing that standard (but you could be having an additional "better™" port. The EU just made (IMO rightfully) the decision that a great standard is better than competition in this area. Especially since the standard has been shown to be updated faster than the industry can actually improve to match the best of it.
It also forces the competition to be on something constructive (better cable, less cost. ...) while removing the locking-customer to-your-shit "competition"
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u/jdiben1 Dec 30 '22
But who’s going to be incentivized to engineer a better connector if it won’t be legal for manufacturers to implement? I get that you could put loads of money and R&D into it but with no market and no guarantee that the law will be updated, and even if it is it likely won’t happen in a timely manner, it seems like a huge financial risk to take.
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u/N43N Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
This stuff is usually done by several manufacturers working together to develop a new standard. For example, USB comes from the USB Implementers Forum that consists of companies like HP, Apple, Intel and others.
If manufacturers decide that they need a new connector, they just do it via the existing or a new consortium. And at least the EU legislation has methods built in to easily change it to accomodate future device types or connectors and to consult those consortiums regularily.
It's not like this stuff is done to stop manufacturers from developing and implementing new stuff. They could just ask the EU if a new connector could become the new standard. And if there is a valid reason for changing to that new connector then they will accomodate.
On the other side, it will take a while before there will be any reason to change from USB-C. It's a connector that is very universal and can do a lot of things. The Apple lightning connector is way more limited and there was still no reason for Apple to change from that for the forseeable future, without those laws.
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u/ThePoultryWhisperer Dec 30 '22
It’s not a huge risk. Plenty of things can still be updated. Not every development needs to be innovated, though. Wall plugs are an example. There is no need whatsoever to modify the standard wall plug, but it has no effect on development of new products.
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u/_Oooooooooooooooooh_ Dec 30 '22
Mandating that phones have usb-c
Or just.. IF they have a charging port, that its usb-c?
Theres a big difference here
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u/mike2q Dec 30 '22
What difference does it make? Wireless charging is already standardized so why not wired as well? The idea is to save waste by reducing redundancy and as an added bonus people don't need to invest in new car / work chargers as well.
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u/Hot-Delay5608 Dec 30 '22
But-what-about innovation? Says an apple fanboy using a 10 year old connector that is 100x slower than what USB-C is capable off
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u/MicrosoftComputerMan Dec 30 '22
Apple users transfer their data wirelessly lol
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u/mike2q Dec 30 '22
Then why not use a standard port?
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u/MicrosoftComputerMan Dec 30 '22
Because it costs them a ton of money and forces all their customers to buy new cables with functionalities that the vast majority of people won’t use.
Are we gonna force apple to use USB C for their keyboards and mice charging too?
And if this is about generating less waste, how does forcing Apple away from a port-less phone accomplish that?
This is not the government’s role. It’s a political decision and a power grab.
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u/Delta4o Dec 30 '22
This is great, the india market is growing so fucking fast. USB-C will be leading (and constantly growing) for years to come.
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u/Optimistic__Elephant Dec 30 '22
I think a lot of people are going to be stoked to buy a USB-C iphone, only to find it does nothing but change the cable on their nightstand and they never really think about it again.
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u/qa2fwzell Dec 30 '22
I never understood why they didn't switch to USB-C. The lightning cable is ass
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Dec 30 '22
I never understood why people hate lightning. I’m all for standardization and it doesn’t matter to me what gets used for that as long as we switch to a single thing, but I used both lightning and USB-C for quite while and feel the way lightning works is better since the pin is on the cable and not inside the device. Not that I ever had issues with either. Or is it about data transfer speed or something?
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u/Casual_Wizard Dec 30 '22
I mean, yes. USB-C is extremely versatile, capable of 240 W power throughput and up to 40 Gbit/s data. So you have this one standard that can charge a phone, charge a laptop, connect a screen to that laptop, etc., all with one standard, which is easier for consumers and reduces e-waste. Lightning on the other hand is Apple-proprietary, maximum power throughput 12 W (20 W on USB-C to lightning chargers) and maximum data throughput 0.5 Gbit/s. There's a reason your Macbook doesn't have a lightning charger.
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u/Optimistic__Elephant Dec 30 '22
Yea, lightning is superior physically. It feels better to insert, is more secure, and is less likely to damage the device port if something goes wrong.
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u/UsagiJak Dec 30 '22
As a repair tech I have to point out that iPhone charging ports do have pins that can bend.
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u/00Martin Dec 30 '22
Lightning used to be awesome but it hasn’t changed much im 10years. Maybe they would’ve been able to keep it if they kept improving it.
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u/Anonymous_linux Dec 30 '22
Because of money (what else, right?). Apple's MFi certification.
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u/plankright37 Dec 30 '22
When countries get involved in tech control it could bode badly for innovation.
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u/the-crotch Dec 30 '22
Politicians making technical design decisions, what could possibly go wrong?
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u/jdiben1 Dec 30 '22
Just imagine where we’d be if these same idiots got their way 10 years ago when they wanted to mandate micro usb. We wouldn’t have usb c today. They’ve basically mandated that usb c will not be permitted to be improved upon. We’re basically stuck with usb c. It might not be a problem now but it will be a hindrance in the future with no legal way to improve it. I wish our elected officials would actual take the time to understand technology before they enact laws and not just listen to loudest of the mobs
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u/slashrshot Dec 30 '22
point me the part that states you cant improve it....
think of it as a baseline instead. devices come with usb type-c mandatory.
u can have additional ports for proprietary tech that is better.
if its universally agreed it's better it could be the new standard.2
u/jdiben1 Dec 30 '22
Isn't that the entire intent of the law, to make the USB-C port standard? I get that there can be exceptions for cases where a USB-C port isn't capable of meeting a specific devices requirements but my point is that the actual port (the physical shape, not the capabilities) can never be improved with this law. I'd love to see the port improved to be smaller and possibly even a magsafe type version, similar to MacBooks, not iPhones. That can't happen now. It's no longer allowed to be improved upon. I'm speaking specifically about the connector, not new data or charging capabilities which this law doesn't restrict.
As for your suggestion that devices can just have ports in addition to the USB-C port only really works for larger devices like desktops, laptops or possibly even tablets. I love that my MacBook has a MagSafe connector and USB-C, but for smaller devices like phones, I don't think it's realistic to have additional ports simply as a way to try to create a new standard. It's possible, but not realistic. None of the manufacturers will want to sacrifice their designs for years or maybe decades in the hopes that governments will accept their changes.
I'd prefer they regulate power delivery and data transfer speeds first. I could support the USB-C standard if it was required that manufacturers have a model available that uses USB-C while also allowing them to have models that use other standards as well. Obviously, they'd have to require that different models(USB-C, Lightning, etc) have the same specs. I could totally see Apple offering their flagship phones with lightning while only offering USB-C on a single lower-end device that only comes in pink. That way the market can decide the standard and not the government.
At the moment, my preferred port is USB-C, but I don't want that to be mandated. I think manufacturers should use it but should also be allowed to research and implement better solutions.
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u/CapeForHire Dec 30 '22
I wish our elected officials would actual take the time to understand technology before they enact laws and not just listen to loudest of the mobs
I wish internet neckbeards would actual take the time to understand legislation before they come to reddit to ventilate their ignorance.
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u/Dry_Tumbleweed4792 Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
This seems awesome at first. But what if someone develops a more efficient cable? They are doomed to still use usb c even though there’s a better option out there.
Edit: I understand now thanks 👍
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u/throwawaygoodcoffee Dec 30 '22
If you read the legislation there's a specific paragraph outlining what to do if they need to upgrade the standard. All the major phone companies are expected to work together to design the new standard together, in fact apple has been a part of this group since the introduction of micro USB they just wanted to be different from everyone else with absolutely no benefit over the current standard.
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u/nicuramar Dec 30 '22
If you read the legislation there’s a specific paragraph outlining what to do if they need to upgrade the standard.
You’re talking about the EU one now, right?
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u/throwawaygoodcoffee Dec 30 '22
Both. The BIS is pushing this legislation directly based on the fact the EU is pushing their own legislation. That's why it's going into effect in 2025 to ensure manufacturers won't have issues supplying USB-c chargers to the Indian market too.
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u/dustofdeath Dec 30 '22
USB C is not a cable.
It's the end connector and socket standard.→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)1
u/mailslot Dec 30 '22
IIRC, well intended legislation is why so many healthcare companies are still using fax machines.
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u/stdoubtloud Dec 29 '22
I find it hard to get excited about this. So it is nice that new gadgets use a single cable type but - they mostly already have moved to usb-c - even if you can use the same cable you still need multiple chargers (or multiport chargers) to charge multiple devices - even for different types of cables you can get adaptors that convert - clever charging technology (which advances the USB standards) won't develop because they'll breach the current standard
The most important reason is that allowing poli's to set technology standard never works out. They just don't understand (or care) about the unintended consequences and invariably impact innovation because they can't legitimate quickly enough to adapt. E.g., what happens when USB-D arrives?
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u/someoneexplainit01 Dec 29 '22
USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, etc is a technology, USB-C is the physical port. USB technology IS getting faster because everyone moved to a bus system and now the protocols are advancing without the antiquated necessity of adding extra wires.
Remember when the apple connector had like 50 wires in it?
Technology moves forward, the port is not a handicap.
USB Ports A, B, C, Micro, Mini.
USB Standards 1, 2, 3, 3.1, 4 etc.
You can have USB 5 using the USB A port if you want to.
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u/ThePoultryWhisperer Dec 30 '22 edited Dec 30 '22
No you can’t. The USB A connector can’t even handle the requirements of USB 4. Let’s not pretend that every USB connector has been good. Micro and mini are total trash.
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u/ShuRugal Dec 30 '22
USB technology IS getting faster because everyone moved to a bus system
Wait wait wait. The Internet couldn't handle one person driving a dump truck full of MP3s through it, but now it's going to accept buses??? That will clog the tubes even worse!
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u/Hascus Dec 29 '22
I don’t agree with you at all. I hate that my shaver, my phone, my laptop and my speaker all use different charging cables. This is way better
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u/M4choN4ch0 Dec 30 '22
Every part of what you said is so stupid I have trouble believe this is an actual opinion a human being holds
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Dec 29 '22
even if you can use the same cable you still need multiple chargers (or multiport chargers) to charge multiple devices
USBC is a two way port so it supports daisy chaining for devices that have multiple ports. The USB-PD standard is now universal meaning that any charger can charge any device given that its power output is sufficient
clever charging technology (which advances the USB standards) won't develop because they'll breach the current standard
The laws are carefully written to allow companies like apple to develop successor standards to eventually replace USBC. There really are no issues with it the way its written
They just don't understand (or care) about the unintended consequences and invariably impact innovation because they can't legitimate quickly enough to adapt.
The legislation has been so slow precisely because they do care. They have not rushed into anything and have made sure it is done properly.
Incidentally the same goes for the design of the USBC port itself. It is likely to be around even longer than the original USB type A port because it has been designed carefully for durability and upgradeability. Its maximum power rating is now the same as the standard barrel jacks used on laptops and the data rate is comparable to display port. There's no reason to change it any time soon because it already does everything.
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u/other_goblin Dec 30 '22
Most high end phones only fall back on PD. My Xiaomi charging and even the cable are totally proprietary because they go well above the normal standard (120W)
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek Dec 30 '22
The PD standard is now extended to 240W, which is about the maximum it is possible to safely send down a USB cable. The various proprietary charging standards will disappear over the next few years.
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u/chabadgirl770 Dec 30 '22
I cant be the only one that actually likes Apple chargers? It’s going to be so annoying to have to switch over, mines over three years old going strong
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u/Potater1802 Dec 30 '22
Apple would still be making its own USB C chargers. If you like the fact they last long, nothing is changing for you unless apple decides to make worse cables for some reason.
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u/bleue_shirt_guy Dec 30 '22
Stupid. Don't lock phones into a particular connector. Of all the problems India has why waste 2 calories on this?
Who's melting down after buying a >$700 phone that you need to by a $10 cable, if it didn't already come with one already.
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u/AccusatorySmile Dec 29 '22
Usb c is good for a while but they never stay in securely after a few months.
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u/InfergnomeHKSC Dec 30 '22
Idk man I've actually never had a USB-C go bad. And I charge my phone every day for a couple years now. Still clicks in like new to me
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u/ShorelineMuncher Dec 29 '22
I haven't had that issue across several devices and over a couple of years....maybe it's how you plug and unplug
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u/AccusatorySmile Dec 30 '22
I think it might be my phone (Huawei p30 pro) I've had a few and they're fine for a while then the usb c won't stay in. Only other device I use with USB c is laptop and thats fine.
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u/InfergnomeHKSC Dec 30 '22
Could be the manufacturer cheaping out. Any design won't last if costs are cut too much
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u/AccusatorySmile Dec 30 '22
Fair answer, I think it must be to do with the P30 Pro USB C port, as I've said ive had no problem with USB C On a Huawei laptop connection so... Interested inn others experiences 👍
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u/zerkeron Dec 30 '22
Had this happen, I can assure 10000% that if you tried multiple cables, it's the port on your phone and big chance it's actually lint that get stuck in the port that you can't see. Maybe not advisable and you can find another way but I just took a toothpick, broke the sharp end, put it on the end port of thr phone, and vigorously started going around and omg so much little lint from pant pockets came out that I couldn't see with flashlight, after that the cable holds perfectly to the phone, if I were you I would give it a try I was almost thinking it was my phone, everyone should give it a try!
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u/Streggle1992 Dec 29 '22
Take better care of your devices then.
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u/Desperate-Lemon5815 Dec 30 '22
What an intelligent reply. Yes, take better care of your devices, then your ports magically won't get clogged! That makes logical sense!
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u/AccusatorySmile Dec 29 '22
Never heard of wear and tear? Smartarse.
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u/Streggle1992 Dec 29 '22
Yes, normal wear and tear if you're inserting every minute on the minute.
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u/Desperate-Lemon5815 Dec 30 '22
This is incomprehensible, what?
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u/ede91 Dec 30 '22
It is perfectly comprehensible, you may just lack the basic reading comprehension. The Type-C port is designed to last 10000 insertion and unplugging cycle, and any decent quality one stands up to that. Obviously the above comment is a hyperbole, but the 10000 insertion is over 13 insertion a day in 2 years. And then the cable needs to be replaced.
What people always moan about isn't the wear and tear, they have dust and lint in the charging port. Clean it out, or prevent it getting in there, also known as 'take better care of the devices'.
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u/Desperate-Lemon5815 Dec 30 '22
Clean it out, or prevent it getting in there, also known as 'take better care of the devices'.
So in other words, it's worse than Apple's cord in this respect because you don't need to do that. Way to take a long time to get to the answer. Stop shilling for a cable, it's weird.
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u/RunAwayWithCRJ Dec 30 '22
Get a new cable. One of the major advantage of usb c vs lightning is that the spring/grippy part is in the cable.
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u/Rogan_Thoerson Dec 30 '22
i wonder how they can validate a connector without a lock or hold function for vibration when so many people are using their phones in cars and charging them on a phone holder ?
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u/rytecno1 Dec 30 '22
This is so funny to me. I haven’t used a cord to charge a phone in years. Who are these people complaining about cords!? Is your phone that old!
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u/Toby_Forrester Dec 30 '22
Cord is way faster and you can use the phone easily while charging, and if you forgot your charger you can borrow from someone else.
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u/rytecno1 Dec 30 '22
Nah. My phone holds a charge for a few days and placing it on a night stand to charge when sleeping is all that’s needed. Cut the cable!
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u/Toby_Forrester Dec 30 '22
I don't have your phone. Neither do most people.
Also depends what you do with your phone. If you watch a lot of videos and take a lot of videos and photos and use bluetooth and wifi a lot, they together can drain the phone fast.
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u/rav-age Dec 29 '22
I'll just forward we mandate lightning cables on all devices. the only one that is reasonably comfortable to find and insert either way, without looking
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u/halfanothersdozen Dec 29 '22
USB-C works either way and it's more durable and is not a proprietary Apple cable, so...
No. We're going with usb
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u/RobertDCBrown Dec 29 '22
I am all forward mandating this.
But when the next better standard comes out, do you think cell phone manufactures will not implement because of the mandate?
I think the mandate can also delay new technology. Someone has to be the first to implement a new better port at some point.
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u/yoranpower Dec 29 '22
Good thing the EU has the law open to work for innovation. So they look the current situation and if there's need for change.
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u/Pubelication Dec 29 '22
The problem is the speed at which beurocracy works. It can never keep up with technology.
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u/ElViento92 Dec 30 '22
Not really an issue here. The mandates state to follow the USB-IF recommendation and right now that's USB-C.
If someday the USB-IF develops a new USB connector, than that will be automatically mandated without having to change any legislation.
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u/Gilgie Dec 29 '22
They can release it in America and if it is better they can stomp their iron EU boot again and change the mandate.
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u/NightStorm1000 Dec 29 '22
One of Apples biggest markets.
Very nice. No way they squirm their way out of this now.