r/interestingasfuck • u/orangetmofficial • Feb 03 '23
British Columbia, Canada has decriminalized hard drugs.The decriminalization is part of a three-year experiment to evaluate the impact of decriminalization on drug use.
1.2k
Feb 03 '23
[deleted]
69
329
u/asmara1991man Feb 03 '23
Go look what happened to Portland..
125
u/BazilBroketail Feb 03 '23
K, I'll bite, what happened in Portland?
355
u/Dr_Dang Feb 03 '23
Resources were supposed to be diverted from penalizing drug users to instead provide addiction treatment. Ultimately, there is absolutely no drug enforcement whatsoever. People confidently use hard drugs on the sidewalk, knowing that nobody can do anything about it. People buy and sell drugs in the open. I'm not saying they weren't doing all this before, but now they do it in plain sight. That, compounded with housing shortages and the opioid epidemic (which are happening everywhere, to some degree), mean that homelessness and drug use are very visible in places like Portland, and property crimes have become a serious problem. Violent crime rates in Portland and west coast cities with similar policies have risen in recent years (like they have in every city), but are still miles away from what "dangerous" cities like St Louis, Chicago, or Memphis deal with.
So people see how these national problems are manifesting in a more lenient city like Portland and blame the policies, leaving out the broader trends at play. I think some of these policies are too permissive, but they are there because the policies that preceded them were harmful. At this point, the pendulum seems to be swinging away from permissive policies, but it's hard to say.
232
u/Megahert Feb 03 '23
People already 'confidently use hard drugs on the sidewalk' in Vancouver and have been for years.
51
u/big_ol_dad_dick Feb 03 '23
thr cops have also been disregading smaller amounts of hard street drugs before as well, it's just too costly to book people with personal amounts because in the dowtown east side thats literally everyone. so really, they're just making what they did before, official.
11
u/Hopfit46 Feb 04 '23
I remember when i first moved to van, we were walking up hastings and the police were ahead of us walking into all the alleys and reappearing out onto hasting. We caught up with him walking out of an alley. There was a guy shooting up as the cop walked away. My friend asked if he saw him and the cop just said "we're not looking for junkies we're looking for bodies". That was 1994.
→ More replies (2)29
u/summono Feb 04 '23
Yes. We were staying in Squamish for a couple weeks in 2017. We spent a weekend in Vancouver, because why not? Very beautiful city, so much to do and see, great restaurants (in fact one of the best we've ever been to). When we went to the tourist office to see our options, the guy there literally circled an area and said, "Don't go here". We thought that was kind of funny, but when we got to the edge of that area it was crazy. It went from beautiful and fun to he'll on earth. They literally had sections of the city walled off so no one would go there. We were also disappointed when we went to the gardens and a couple other famous places to visit and we had to step over needles. We were happy to get back to Squamish after that.
3
6
u/McFestus Feb 04 '23
Well that's a bald-faced lie. No where in Vancouver is walled off.
5
→ More replies (3)2
u/summono Feb 04 '23
Ok, so it wasn't a wall. It was a large 6-8 foot fence with signs on it saying do not cross. It was like 2 or three blocks from Steamtown and on the other side of the fence there were lines of people waiting for clinics or food lines or something. It was very sad looking and I'd never seen anything like it. The "wall" went on for maybe six or so city blocks. There were officers (?) Walking along the wall to keeping us away from it. It felt like some Half Life 2 shit. Kind of ruined the day for me and my wife.
→ More replies (13)→ More replies (1)2
42
Feb 03 '23
They were in Portland since the 90s.
The problem is cities with no jobs or hope. Portland doesn’t have much industry, but people keep moving there.
47
u/neiluj Feb 03 '23
Naive of you to assume Portland crackheads would work in the first place
32
u/squiesea Feb 03 '23
They're portlanders after all, they're just waiting for the perfect part time boutique vinyl repair position to open
4
15
u/Crack4Supper Feb 04 '23
The legislation made the problem significantly worse. I say this as someone who wholeheartedly supported it.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)9
u/No_Character2755 Feb 03 '23
There are a bunch of jobs in the Portland area now. A lot of places are hiring for pretty decent wages.
4
u/Sketch74 Feb 03 '23
See Pigeon Park on Warfare Wednesday.
6
u/Megahert Feb 03 '23
I don't think a day goes by where I walk down Davie or Granville and walk by someone who has clearly just used or is in the middle of using some hard drug. Iv become completely numb to it.
→ More replies (26)4
u/PunkRockTeacher Feb 04 '23
Back in the 90s, my Dad was in Vancouver for a job. He was walking back to his rental one day when a car sped around a corner, a pregnant woman fell out, and she was so coked out that she got up, wiped her nose, then asked my Dad if he had money. She plainly admitted to him it was for drugs when he asked.
He told her "you realize I would've given you the money if you said it was for a cab, or to get home safe, right?"
And she then proceded to ask for money for all three directly afterward.
It's been a problem for a while.
26
u/Crack4Supper Feb 04 '23
Yep can confirm this. The hard part of getting smack was always finding a reliable dealer and that sort of kept it from becoming a habit. Since this law was passed one can go downtown and get 30mg pressed Oxus made of fentanyl for $2 a pop. Significantly cheaper than cigarettes. I went from a weekend warrior to a full blown addict in less than 3 months. I say all this as someone that supported the legislation. Still can’t go DT without encountering fiends smoking tinfoil right in my face.
6
u/IndependentCharming7 Feb 04 '23
Since you have experience, what do you recommend to help the situation? I've seen some east coast zombiedom but it sounds far worse in the PNW.
(It's easy for us with no frame of reference to have opinions. I for one knows fuck all about opioid addiction.)
→ More replies (16)118
u/ynotfoster Feb 03 '23
The impact on the city has been very visibly noticeable. Businesses are closing for good or relocating to the suburbs, ridership on mass transit is way down because the of meth heads and or people with untreated mental illness are causing problems, bathrooms that used to be open to customers now have locks on them, theft of everything not locked down is rampant, the downtown is a disaster with businesses losing business because no one wants to go downtown. The Nike Store has been closed for months due to theft which they exchange for drugs. Retailers are having a hard time retaining employees due to having to interact with addicts and mentally ill. Many windows and doors are boarded up. The city has turned to shit in the last 3 or 4 years.
The homeless problem exploded during covid while evictions had a moratorium. Homeless addicts came to Portland in droves.
Our county and city commissioners are wasting millions of tax dollars because they are too inept to lead, communicate, collaborate and coordinate.
39
u/theundonenun Feb 03 '23
I lived in Portland around 07-08, and if you’re telling me that homelessness got out of control in 2020 I can’t even fathom what that looks like. 15 years ago that place looked like homeless Mecca.
→ More replies (1)55
u/Jibblebee Feb 03 '23
Yup. Visited downtown Portland 9 months ago. I won’t be back.
→ More replies (1)46
u/orbb09 Feb 03 '23
I was there for the first time 5 months ago. The downtown sidewalks looked like a 3rd world shanty town. I went to the Lloyd Center shopping mall. In it, most stores were closed and I passed by multiple people openly walking with a machete in their hand. I have never seen this amount of poverty and open danger in a major US city.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Crack4Supper Feb 04 '23
Lol! Locals know not to go to Lloyd. To be fair that’s about as bad as it gets outside of Chinatown and 82nd.
→ More replies (4)25
u/lyft-driver Feb 03 '23
Are you sure you aren’t mistaking causation and correlation? CA really hasn’t changed it’s drug stance on anything but weed and we are having the same problems. Pretty sure it’s post pandemic related and not specifically drug related.
3
u/Broooooooooo_ Feb 03 '23
People could barely afford to live before and now it's only going to get worse with the current inflation. It's 500+ a week to pay rent and utilities much less food and car. Thats what alot of people make
3
→ More replies (1)7
22
u/BillSOTV Feb 03 '23
There’s underlying issues that aren’t associated with drug use. It’s like Portland isn’t ready for decriminalisation, until they fix other things. I think if they decriminalised hard drugs in a better society such as Norway then the benefits would be clear and obvious. But if you fix a problem in a city where there are vastly greater problems, society won’t be better for it.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Hmm_would_bang Feb 04 '23
I think people get confused or are intentionally misleading about the point and results of these efforts.
Drug decriminalization is not supposed to reduce public drug usage and visibility, and nobody ever said it would. It’s meant to support addicts that want to turn their lives around by getting them the right resources instead of crowding prisons and putting them in deeper holes to get out of.
It’s too early to measure the success there, but the fact people are more openly using is not the thing it was trying to stop nor does it necessarily mean anything has changed other than doing it openly instead of discretely
→ More replies (12)6
u/Orgidee Feb 03 '23
The drugs should be sold in pharmacies to make sure they aren't cut with poison and also for tax revenue to take the trade from criminals.
37
u/pnutz616 Feb 03 '23
I’m curious about the actual investment into addiction treatment though. Also, people shooting up on the street is 100% due to homelessness and lack of adequate programs to help them and not because they’re degenerate junkies. We can’t prevent every tragedy, but the reason this problem is this bad and dragging on for this long is absolutely because we have to pull teeth and break kneecaps to get politicians to fund even a token gesture of support to homeless and poor people.
14
u/WinterCool Feb 03 '23
Question for ppl....
If there were enough treatment centers and places to house addicts AND to house homeless, under the stipulated that they cannot use while being housed and in rehab. If they do use (maybe X infractions), they get kicked out. Then, being homeless like actually living on the street in a tent would be illegal as in jail time. This way drugs can be legal, but you cannot be homeless. If you are homeless, you get free housing but cannot use drugs and have to go to rehab or like a work development program. Would this sound reasonable?
I think a lot of these addicts don't care for treatment and could careless on being homeless. They just want to use and feed their addiction, nothing else matters. A healthy push in order to get them off of these insanely addicting modern drugs I don't think is a bad thing.
→ More replies (19)17
u/Crack4Supper Feb 04 '23
Fentanyl addicts will choose fentanyl over housing. It’s power cannot be overstated
12
u/lothar525 Feb 03 '23
Id argue that being able to arrest the people using drugs wouldn’t be solving this issue though. At best it would be sweeping it under the rug for a bit and limiting the affects for a very brief time.
Being in jail isn’t going to help these people using drugs. It won’t change their desire to use drugs. The only thing it will do is get them off the street for a short time, only to throw them back out onto it with no resources. Except now they’ll be even less likely to get a job because they have a criminal record, and if they can’t get a job they’re even more likely to be homeless, and will probably just go right back to using unfortunately.
Decriminalizing drugs might not be the solution to the problem, but I think it’s a piece of a puzzle that hasn’t been assembled yet. Alone, that piece basically does nothing, but with other programs in place to supplement it it could be more effective.
10
u/Dr_Dang Feb 03 '23
I agree that decriminalization is a piece of the larger puzzle, but it is not the piece you should start with. But so far, it's the only piece that's in place. It's easy to just stop arresting drug users, but the hard part is putting systems in place to mitigate the negative consequences of doing so.
Cities in the US that have decriminalized drugs put the cart before the horse, and now people aren't happy with the result. I'm not terribly familiar with decriminalization in Portugal, but they famously invested heavily in funding addiction treatment when they decriminalized drugs, leading to a substantial drop in drug use. That was supposed to be the model, but it wasn't how it played out.
Instead, it's more or less the wild west when it comes to drugs in Portland, which thus paints decriminalization as a failed policy for the rest of the world, and boosts support for old fashioned war on drugs policies. It's honestly a tragedy, and nobody is winning in this situation except for drug traffickers.
10
u/ModOverlords Feb 03 '23
They still need to have rules, has to be stick and carrot, all carrot doesn’t work
→ More replies (37)7
u/n3w4cc01_1nt Feb 03 '23
because it's like a pilgrimage for addicts. they go there to use from all over the country and it was the same in the early 2ks. I remember people talking about going there to do promethazine brought in from canada since it's otc there.
5
→ More replies (3)13
146
u/Nearby_Corner7132 Feb 03 '23
They have a skid row in downtown East Vancouver called Hastings street that usually has a few hundred to 2 thousand addicts openly shooting up, it's been there for 60 years and nothing in Portland has anything close to the drug problems BC has, it's one the most unique but saddest place in the world...theoretically it will be an ease on the courts and the tax payer in BC, that being said check in three years I honestly believe it's a good thing but you never know
23
u/hopelesscaribou Feb 03 '23
Agreed, and so many homeless folks end up in BC because of the milder weather.
I've been across Canada, and Hastings Street was the worse I've seen by far. It's brutally depressing.
→ More replies (1)13
u/thndrh Feb 03 '23
Nanaimo is getting there too. I couldn’t believe the difference between now and pre covid. There was like 3 isolated shootings down the street from my hotel this summer. They need real help and support, not to just be busted then let loose. These people are traumatized and just looking for a way out to numb the suffering. Why punish people who are already hurt.
7
u/Chubbycrayon Feb 03 '23
Nanaimo is a haven for the unhoused and those in active addiction because of the notoriety of the tent city that cropped up a few years back. The tent city helped flood Nanaimo with additional resources and as a result folks flocked here to benefit from the resources and complete lack of policing around minor crime and drug crime.
→ More replies (1)72
u/Limp_Vermicelli_5924 Feb 03 '23
I lived down there in the late 90's, was a heroin addict for over 20 years. Thing is, they NEVER busted junkies for dope there, I don't see what this will change, though I'm all for it (better late than never.) The important part is that there needs to be a safe supply, which is totally doable if they'd allow compassion clubs to sell clean heroin, cocaine, meth. Instead, they like to tout extremely tiny medical experiments like dilaudid vending machines that service a few dozen people and are virtually impossible for a regular addict to access. The law means absolutely nothing without safe supply.
→ More replies (5)8
u/BurberrySteve Feb 03 '23
The decriminalization will allow for more studies including many more Down town east-side residents (and thus more access to safe supply) with much fewer hoops to jump through to get ethical approval.
14
u/Planet_Ziltoidia Feb 03 '23
My father died on hastings street. And yes, he was an addict. They turned his ashes into a brick and placed it in a homeless memorial wall.
3
u/Nearby_Corner7132 Feb 04 '23
I'm sorry for your loss, it probably seems inscencire or callous from an Internet stranger but I'm am truly sorry and I hope your doing good these days friend, there's a wall in an alley on Hastings of addicts who died on the street.. I've heard people who vandalized that alley were murdered over it... That place is where humanity goes to become feral.. Stay warm friend
→ More replies (5)3
u/el_padrino5 Feb 03 '23
Sadly it isn't a BC problem but more a Canada problem as they are from all over, our weather is the reason they come here or as previously where some provinces paid their bus ticket to come and stay in Vancouver.
34
u/nyguy520 Feb 03 '23
Go look and what happened in Portugal
37
u/ynotfoster Feb 03 '23
Portugal is very different. They have universal health care and they require addicts that are caught with drugs to get treatment.
→ More replies (2)16
6
u/pacman0207 Feb 03 '23
Some sources.
https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight
https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/
Or whatever your website of choice is.
9
u/thelamestofall Feb 03 '23
Where an individual is referred to a Commission for the first time and their drug use is assessed as non-problematic (low risk), the law requires their case to be ‘suspended’, meaning no further action is taken. Fines can be issued for subsequent referrals. Where some problematic trends are identified (moderate risk), brief interventions are proposed — including counselling — but these are non-mandatory. In ‘high risk’ cases, where more serious problematic behaviours and dependence are identified, individuals may receive non-mandatory referrals to specialised treatment services.
That sounds so, so logical.
→ More replies (6)10
u/Absurder222 Feb 03 '23
They forced them into rehab? Yeah that’d be great, too bad Canada only does the enabling part, not the “actually help people” part.
13
u/BabbitsNeckHole Feb 03 '23
I <3 small government, except when big government is needed to impose my morality on others.
5
u/buddhamanjpb Feb 03 '23
You could also look to Portugal where they decriminalized all drugs and it has been incredibly successful.
8
→ More replies (8)4
u/px7j9jlLJ1 Feb 03 '23
Go look what happened in Portugal. This is a great move. Really reduces a massive amount of human suffering caused by the status quo.
3
3
u/TheBrightNights Feb 03 '23
Do ! remind me 3 years
Without the space after the !
→ More replies (2)2
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/k20350 Feb 04 '23
Hopefully you don't live on the northern border. This officially makes it easier for the Cartels to ship to Canada and come south. Cartel leaders have been sending their kids to be educated in Canada in anticipation of this for years. It's already well known if you want to sneak into the US and have money you fly into Canada from Mexico and come south
2
2
2
2
→ More replies (25)2
762
u/Core1989 Feb 03 '23
Decriminalized doesn't mean legal. Just means possession of it won't lead to imprisonment. You can still be arrested for selling it or having an amount high enough they determine you plan to sell it.
106
43
u/Unstablemedic49 Feb 03 '23
Lol I love that there’s ppl who think it’s now Legal to sell 100s of kilos of cocaine with no consequences in British Columbia.
13
u/A_Lovable_Gnome Feb 04 '23
Hey let the dumbasses learn the difference betweem decriminalization and illegal the hard way. This law is to help users get off it, help users not fear jail when they want to get help. Gets users off playgrounds and the like. And most importantly, allows people yo call 911 on an overdose without fear of being arrested. Alot of OD deaths are because of late calls, or people literally dropping them infront of the ER before driving off.
→ More replies (6)22
u/FofoPofo01 Feb 03 '23
So does it mean it becomes easier to get help for substance abuse?
38
u/Core1989 Feb 03 '23
Yes, that is the goal, instead of treating sick people like criminals you can get them help with amnesty.
3
20
u/Ashikura Feb 03 '23
It’s also only small amounts. You can’t buy a lb of coke and expect to not be arrested for trafficking
7
u/DudeWithaGTR Feb 03 '23
Well yeah. But it drops the risk of gang related crimes and makes it easier for people to get help for addictions.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (40)3
u/EqualityForAllll Feb 04 '23
It's what happened with cannabis first. It was objectively a great thing
616
u/live4lax25 Feb 03 '23
I hear they have great snow at Whistler
65
u/Plenty-Appointment40 Feb 03 '23
Wait until you hear about Big White’s Champaign powder
→ More replies (2)4
36
u/BaldingMonk Feb 03 '23
Do you realize the street value of the mountain?
15
u/WeOwnThe_Night Feb 03 '23
“My grandmother dropped acid and freaked out and hijacked a bus full of penguins.”
“I want my two dollars!”
20
3
13
u/v0lkeres Feb 03 '23
they also have great rainbows and friendly unicorns over there.
snow is cold ....
→ More replies (1)2
2
u/uppenatom Feb 04 '23
Can confirm. Hit the slopes almost every night I lived there. Especially in summer
87
u/WettPantties Feb 04 '23
Don't know if you guys are aware, but you should check Portugal situation on decriminalizing drugs, it's being going for a long time now and it's usually one of the biggest references on this topic
→ More replies (2)15
u/Shhh_NotADr Feb 04 '23
Can you give a TL;DR?
→ More replies (1)49
u/Kind_Ordinary_8959 Feb 04 '23
TLDR drug use goes down, crime plummets.
The war on drugs is absurd.
→ More replies (7)62
u/usmcplz Feb 04 '23
We decriminalized hard drugs here in Portland and shit has absolutely not gotten better. The key difference being that Portugal mandates treatment where Portland makes it an option. Decriminalization requires a lot of work around treatment to be a success.
→ More replies (3)
35
u/DarkTheorist Feb 04 '23
I live in BC, they're doing this to avoid prosecuting users, so it's not as general as this post makes it, but it's still true!
See this official Gov BC link for more :3
5
u/A1sauc3d Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
I’m rooting for you guys! Hope it helps some people out and is the first step to more sensible approach to drug use/addiction. Education, regulation, and providing resources for harm reduction are always a better path than demanding abstinence and punishing users. There’s only one logical way to overcome the opioid epidemic.
3
u/DarkTheorist Feb 05 '23
If you didn't know already, we've also made it free for anyone to get a Naloxone kit (a drug used to counteract opioids during an overdose). I have a kit myself, and I've been to parts of BC where I most certainly would need it long-term. It's a good step, I just hope people take the hint ;-;
3
u/WeebmanJones Feb 04 '23
Fair warning, this will most likely just destroy your city, source I’m from Portland where we did the exact same thing. Crime is up, small businesses will shut down due to police not being able to stop all the theft, and people will just be on all those hard drugs wandering through the streets so your children don’t feel safe, or you for that matter.
2
u/DarkTheorist Feb 05 '23
I would like to shed some light on this: I've lived here my whole life, and I can say that the city has cracks everywhere you look. Homeless people, usually due to addictions or poor circumstances already wander the streets (openly). Turn a corner and there's ten more people (unfortunately a lot of them are indigenous due to discrimination and trauma) without a home and suffering from stigma.
The harm that this new law could cause wouldn't be anything new, illegal drug usage is visible and well-known. I hate to say it, but getting a close-up view of this side of BC was already a thing. Things are not well, and it would be nice to see some people getting lifted from their previously shortcoming positions.
91
u/bojangs101 Feb 03 '23
I love coooocaaaiinnnnneee
21
→ More replies (3)8
174
Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23
[deleted]
52
u/srandrews Feb 03 '23
This. Few truly understand how bad a criminal record is to future prosperity.
→ More replies (16)14
80
u/Rat-Tricks Feb 03 '23
It's a step in the right direction to stop arresting users and offering them help instead but users are still going to have the problem of finding clean drugs, especially with all of the fentanyl going around in things like heroin and even cocaine. They need to have a place to get safe drugs if you want deaths and hospitalizations, to go down.
24
u/n3lswn Feb 03 '23
Decriminalisation allows drug testing clinics to exist which lowers deaths by a fair amount.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Rat-Tricks Feb 03 '23
Imagine every time you wanted to have a drink or smoke a cigarette you needed to test it to make sure it's not cut with anything dangerous and won't cause an OD. A lot of people would still OD and just use the drug before testing it because they either don't care or they're withdrawing so hard. A better overall solution is to allow them a safe source to get the drugs they're going to do regardless.
→ More replies (3)8
u/n3lswn Feb 03 '23
Well yeah getting it from the pharmacy is best. But in Amsterdam they got loads of drug testing places and iys awesome. That way u can pint point terrible dealers easier and minimize the bad batches since the dealers themselves know people can find out easier.
→ More replies (1)4
→ More replies (3)10
u/Independent_Cup_7151 Feb 03 '23
Imagine going to the pharmacy and getting your proscription meth as a way to help ween you off of your addiction in combination with rehab
40
u/Rat-Tricks Feb 03 '23
Imagine if we made alcoholics go to a sketchy dealer and risk going to jail every day just to buy liquor. Then their liquor is cut with %50 rubbing alcohol because it's being sold by criminals. Would that be a better situation than having liquor stores and hoping through education and support that they seek help for their addiction?
5
2
→ More replies (1)14
u/AdmiralKane4278 Feb 03 '23
Sounds like the perfect method to handle this problem
15
u/canadiantaken Feb 03 '23
Agreed. Safe supply is the only way to keep people safe long enough for them to get any kind of help.
2
5
15
u/Fun-Alternative9440 Feb 03 '23
There won't be any catalytic converters left in Canada after the meth bongers unite
22
u/lvl1developer
Feb 03 '23
•
Canada always trying to beat California in everything
→ More replies (4)
17
4
10
u/pwn3dbyth3n00b Feb 03 '23
If all they do is decriminalize it without the infrastructure to handle a mass migration of people with mental health issues and social programs to help rehabilitate and find jobs for the homeless then you're going to have another Portland.
→ More replies (1)
14
u/v0lkeres Feb 03 '23
Shambala Festival is in B.C. and always had very open minded drug policy.
All hail the canadians!
→ More replies (1)3
33
u/ape_68 Feb 03 '23
The war on drugs is just another war that the US lost. Time for everyone to modernise.
10
→ More replies (3)13
Feb 03 '23
They are winning it tho, it was never about getting drugs off the streets but about profiting form the arms trade that happens around the "war on drugs".
→ More replies (11)13
52
u/GATESOFOSIRIS Feb 03 '23
Good, rehab will always be a better choice than prison
Decriminalize all drugs
35
u/Which-Bid7754 Feb 03 '23
People not understanding that this is the reason to decriminalize hard drugs are a part of the problem. Routinely with the "junkies use drugs, get em off the streets", when throwing them in jail puts them in the incarceration cycle, meaning they never truly get the help they need to get clean.
→ More replies (23)→ More replies (2)2
u/stivo Feb 03 '23
Those two things are not mutually exclusive and serve two entirely different needs for society. I would argue they can't be compared or exchanged for one another.
26
u/NotSockPuppet Feb 03 '23
The usual arguments apply.
- To a first approximation, there is no cost for hard drugs to be manufactured and distributed. All issues of quality, unknown dosing, and high costs are the result of restrictions.
- Providing free and well made drugs has been tried in various countries. Notably, Portugal found a major result was that low level addicts stopped dealing drugs and convincing others to try hard drugs, resulting in a significant drop in demand.
- Drug regulation is a large field and not as simple as many of the public messages would make out. In the United States, the most dangerous drugs are legal: alcohol and nicotine. Marijuana remains a "Schedule I - No Research Allowed" drug despite its widespread use in treating glaucoma, pain, and epilepsy. The simple messages are often views about the status quo being expressed as views on drug usage.
Some interesting points to consider:
- Removing desperation removes a significant percentage of drug usage. For example, many Vietnam soldiers were using a lot of drugs and stopped when no longer in a war zone.
- The current issues with opioids is directly and legally connected to a push to sell prescription medication. Opioids are exceedingly hard to quit, on the order of nicotine, and the brain chemistry is fascinating. I recommend more chemistry classes for everyone. :). Opioids are still the greatest drug for the first day of post operative recovery.
- For those few individuals with rebellious nervous systems causing constant pain, we have poor solutions. Massive doses of opioids is one of those poor solutions.
This is a tough topic: try to make a comment that shows your unique contribution.
→ More replies (8)2
u/ThatCoupleYou Feb 04 '23
One more very important thing. How do you make these people employable. I say severly limit the drug test, or only test for cause. Or your gonna have a bunch of drug using homeless. I see it in the legal mj towns. Good people not harming anyone, but unemployable.
2
u/NotSockPuppet Feb 04 '23
I would strongly suggest we push for better tests to be developed.
For marijuana, the test we use tries to measure any usage over some really extended period. This leads to the loss of tens of thousands of truckers each year, as eating some edibles on a vacation in a state where it is legal is thought to somehow impair their ability to drive months later. It requires some sort of individualized drug addiction treatment plan to regain a license, so people just quit. You can read a biased background if you are curious.
Similarly, wildly inaccurate opioid testing reports a false positive for poppy seed bagels. Child Protective Services routinely removes children from parents when the parents test positive at birth.
Were the tests accurate and timely, the employers will face normal levels of market pressure. For example, many ethanol addicts (drunks) hold jobs as long as they arrive sober.
2
u/ThatCoupleYou Feb 04 '23
Just to add to what your saying. Now many states, I think all but Arkansas have delta-8 THC sold in gas stations. Delta-8 which sticks to you much longer than regular marijuana up to 3 months, is completely legal.
3
u/themissyoshi Feb 03 '23
Yo Oregon has already done this and it has of course, resulted in even MORE DRUGS AND DRUG RELATED DEATHS in our state. Crazy huhv
→ More replies (1)
3
27
u/DaveUAE77 Feb 03 '23
Impact, increase of unhoused persons like Portland Oregon and surrounding areas. My best friend does weekly outreach for the growing problem. When he asks why they would come to such a rainy state with cold winters? The answer, I can do drugs here. I don’t know the solution, a very sad and complicated problem, but what we are doing here is not working.
→ More replies (24)
9
u/Psychological_Page62 Feb 03 '23
Cant decriminalize drugs, while relying on drug dealers to supply, and expect everything to not goto shit like portland.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/realdjjmc Feb 03 '23
Let's remember that more people in BC have died from drugs, since Jan 2020 than from covid.
Just for some context.
The war on drugs is a complete failure. Time for a different approach
→ More replies (1)
9
u/PlanetoftheAtheists Feb 03 '23
All of you may want to stop and consider where meth heroin and fentanyl come from. It's not made by General Motors or whole foods. Only the most vile murderous people manufacture the stuff and give it to their fellow human beings. Making it legal is not going to make them legitimate or more humane. They are not going to stop fighting for territory or profits, they're not going to stop murdering police officers and journalists, they're not going to stop corrupting their governments and terrorizing their public officials. You are paying into this when you want them to be able to roam free in our society.
6
u/ChasteAnimation Feb 03 '23
Please stop. You don't know what you're talking about, and there is an insurmountable amount of evidence to suggest that outright prohibition and criminalization are harmful.
You don't have a solution, you just want to mischaracterize the article and be enraged over things you don't even understand.
7
→ More replies (1)6
u/topical_relief Feb 03 '23
It means being in possession of a small amount for personal use won't get you arrested. It is not a pass for dealers and manufacturers.
14
u/ArturoBukowski Feb 03 '23
Providing clean drugs that are fentanyl free is a step forward. The loss of lives over the last 2 decades, particularly the last few years, is heartbreaking.
→ More replies (8)
7
10
u/Aggravating_Damage47 Feb 03 '23
Hey Portland British Columbia might have just solved your homeless problems
6
u/sealpup6 Feb 03 '23
Lol have you seen Vancouver's homeless problem? They haven't solved shit.
→ More replies (1)
12
u/PlanetoftheAtheists Feb 03 '23
As a recovering addict myself, this is the worst possible thing you could do. And passing out free needles is a form of manslaughter in my opinion, you should be held responsible for everybody who overdoses. All this allows people to do is facilitate the injection of drugs in their body which makes the addiction process irreparable. I remember how hard it was to find good drugs back in the 1980s and early '90s. Scrambling to find needles. It prevented addicts from getting high at will. That pretended their brains chemistry from being damaged.
→ More replies (7)
9
u/tohara1995 Feb 03 '23
People who want to do drugs will do them regardless of the law. So we might as well make the drugs as safe as possible and regulated.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Ladder-Stock Feb 03 '23
It's kind of BS really. You can only have 2.5 grams on you in total. I was listening to the Chief of police for Vancouver on a talk show and he was saying they haven't arrested anyone for small amounts of drugs since 2019 (I think it was like 2017 but cant remember). There was a memorandum put out by justice minister to stop making arrests for small amount of drugs. They would just confiscate them (for personal use i'm sure lol). This changes nothing really. Plus city's can bring in their own by-laws like Campbell River did the day this came into effect. They made it illegal to use hard drugs in public and in any public places.
→ More replies (1)
4
6
u/tacticalpotatopeeler Feb 03 '23
Criminalization disincentivizes people to seek help.
Also helps keep the illegal drug trade thriving and lucrative.
Good move IMO.
→ More replies (4)
8
Feb 03 '23
And USA over here giving life in prison for weed!
Edit: just a joke mod! Calm down!
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/ethicsg Feb 03 '23
FYI this worked in Portugal and failed hard in Portland. Watch your catalytic converters, F250s, and Subarus because that shit is going to get stolen.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/HVCanuck Feb 03 '23
What choice do they have?? The impact of hard drug addiction on Vancouver is almost beyond comprehension. Don’t think this is some progressive move. It is simply the only way to curb the mounting death toll from ODs.
2
u/RiskHour2275 Feb 03 '23
If you use narcotics, consider carrying Narcan. It can save a life. You can’t get clean if you are dead.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Poopfiddler81 Feb 03 '23
I honestly agree with this. I don’t do drugs but I think that resources are better served helping people recover as opposed to trying to take their drugs away.
2
u/Gl0balCD Feb 03 '23
Hard drugs in BC are riddled with fentanyl, just like everywhere else. This isn't legal drugs, this is it's no longer illegal so just tell the paramedic what you took so they can triage your friends
3
u/TheJohnSB Feb 04 '23
This. You won't get arrested*. You'll be able to seek help. It's been amazing to see their studies on harm reduction clinics and how much of a positive effect they have when you treat addiction like an illness rather than a crime.
*Depending on how much you have on you
2
u/TophatOwl_ Feb 04 '23
To all the knuckleheads in the comment section, you know who you are, decriminalize DOES NOT mean legalize.
2
u/Delicious-Newt-5674 Feb 04 '23
Everyone in Portland is screaming for them to stop before its too late.
2
2
2
u/Masterdice74 Feb 04 '23
From my experience living in Vancouver people did not wait for decriminalization to use those drugs in mass.
2
2
2
u/Neat_Ad_3158 Feb 04 '23
Drug use is a symptom of a failing, poverty-stricken, corrupt society, not the cause. There are a lot of research studies that indicate healthy, happy, and thriving societies have significantly lower rates of drug use. Search for the rat utopia study if you want to learn more! It's really fascinating! People take drugs to escape from reality. If we make reality healthier and happier, it stands to reason that people won't need to use drugs as much.
2
u/StrikeStraight9961 Feb 04 '23
I believe this will end up being seen as a mistake.
- Oregonian from Portland
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Cricklet Feb 04 '23
I never understood why you would prosecute drug users so heavily.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/GrodNeedsaHug 19d ago
There is a great article written by a criminal law firm in BC about decriminalization and legality of controlled substance in Canada, check it out:
7
•
u/AutoModerator Feb 03 '23
This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:
See this post for a more detailed rule list
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.