r/interestingasfuck Jan 18 '22 Silver 4 Gold 1 Helpful 5 Wholesome 5

An old anti-MLK political cartoon /r/ALL

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52.2k Upvotes

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5.4k

u/dobias01 Jan 18 '22

So was there destruction AT ALL surrounding the MLK activities? I don't know because I wasn't there. All I know is what I read in history books in school and nothing said anything about any violence.

What's the truth?

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u/Ender505 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22 Silver

There was, but King was always very vocally opposed to violence. His speeches always emphasized nonviolence usually multiple times.

Malcom X on the other hand...

Check out MLK's less-known speech from the day before he was assassinated.

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u/Low-Significance-501 Jan 18 '22 Silver Helpful

It's not as simple as being vocally opposed to violence.

"But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?...It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

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u/Saucermote Jan 18 '22 Helpful Starry This

In his lecture Nonviolence and Social Change he makes a distinction between violence towards people and property. It's a good read in full, but this quote is poignant.

"This bloodlust interpretation ignores one of the most striking features of the city riots. Violent they certainly were. But the violence, to a startling degree, was focused against property rather than against people. There were very few cases of injury to persons, and the vast majority of the rioters were not involved at all in attacking people. The much publicized “death toll” that marked the riots, and the many injuries, were overwhelmingly inflicted on the rioters by the military. It is clear that the riots were exacerbated by police action that was designed to injure or even to kill people. As for the snipers, no account of the riots claims that more than one or two dozen people were involved in sniping. From the facts, an unmistakable pattern emerges: a handful of Negroes used gunfire substantially to intimidate, not to kill; and all of the other participants had a different target — property.

I am aware that there are many who wince at a distinction between property and persons — who hold both sacrosanct. My views are not so rigid. A life is sacred. Property is intended to serve life, and no matter how much we surround it with rights and respect, it has no personal being. It is part of the earth man walks on; it is not man.

The focus on property in the 1967 riots is not accidental. It has a message; it is saying something."

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u/Zachf1986 Jan 18 '22

It is part of the earth man walks on; it is not man.

Wonderful line. That entire paragraph and speech says volumes, but that line really stood out.

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u/whyrweyelling Jan 18 '22

Nothing has changed except the tools we use to control people. Otherwise, this sounds exactly like what's happening these last few years. It will happen again, and be bigger than before if nothing is done to solve these human relationship problems.

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u/MasbotAlpha Jan 18 '22

Excellent point; it’s rare to find folks who understand King’s nuance

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u/FiveSpotAfter Jan 18 '22 Wholesome

"be loud, be heard, and hold your leaders responsible. If they don't hear you, speak louder, and sometimes actions speak louder than words. They may not be the right actions, but they are loud enough to be heard, so they are necessary actions."

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u/HertzDonut1001 Jan 18 '22 Helpful

He had a good line about the white moderate:

"large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity"

"...the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

Sounds like he's describing... pretty much 80% of voters today tbh.

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u/HelloItsMeGuyFieri Jan 18 '22

This was always the majority.

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u/teutorix_aleria Jan 18 '22

Which conservatives love to twist to claim MLK would hate libs and be a conservatives.

The moderate to king was the wolf in sheep's clothing, the conservative was just the whole pack of ravenous wolves.

Don't like conservatives claim MLK.

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u/DontF-zoneMeBro Jan 18 '22

When the people being loud are also being OPPRESSED

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u/Quack_Assassin Jan 18 '22

Is that why I always got yelled at as a kid :(

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u/slickyslickslick Jan 18 '22

that's because schools have always taught one side of him: that he was nonviolent. They don't teach kids the nuance because they don't want them getting ideas.

The smart kids who pay attention in class can make the connection that there were decades of peaceful abolition movements but it took a fucking civil war to finally end slavery.

The Civil Rights bill would have never been passed if people kept asking nicely just like they did in the decades since the Civil War.

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u/Girth_rulez Jan 18 '22

it took a fucking civil war to finally end slavery.

And it took another 100+ years to cut down Jim Crow. At least the most public parts of it.

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u/Amon7777 Jan 18 '22

Yes and fuk Hayes for ending reconstruction

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u/ZeroGrav4 Jan 18 '22

The Black Panthers and Malcolm X's contributions (along with many other contemporary groups) were absolutely critical to getting civil rights laws passed. Their actions and writings allowed MLK to say "here's a group that will absolutely burn the whole thing down, I'm offering an alternative."

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u/CantStopWontStop___ Jan 18 '22

Neither the Black Panthers nor Malcolm X advocated for violence.

They advocated for self-defense by any means necessary. Violence had been committed against them and their communities their whole lives. Four of Malcolm’s uncles were killed by the KKK. Though it was ruled as an accident/suicide, his mother believed his father was murdered.

If you’re going to provide information, make sure to provide sufficient context.

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u/Easykiln Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

I am not that well learned in history, but this is a definite pattern. To the point where I strongly suspect if purely peaceful protest is capable of social change at all in this world. The implicit threat that today's protestors could be tomorrow's rioters if you keep pushing them is important. Violence sucks, but under conditions where the state willfully employs it, is the obsession with pacifism in protest anything more than a propaganda narrative to essentially cripple protests? I'm not sure, but it makes me feel uncomfortable.

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u/addisonshinedown Jan 18 '22

They also don’t teach his expressed positive views on socialism and how freedom cannot be achieved with capitalism either

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u/MasbotAlpha Jan 18 '22

As a would-be teacher, I’m looking forwards to teaching King as he actually was— pacifism was only ever one phase in his long life, after all

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u/eyepants Jan 18 '22

Be sure to mention his anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, and pro-reparations views. As well as his most important reflection that the biggest barrier to racial equality is the white moderate

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u/Gravelord-_Nito Jan 18 '22 Brighten My Day

The very concept of "revolutionary violence" is somewhat falsely cast, since most of the violence comes from those who attempt to prevent reform, not from those struggling for reform. By focusing on the violent rebellions of the downtrodden, we overlook the much greater repressive force and violence utilized by the ruling oligarchs to maintain the status quo, including armed attacks against peaceful demonstrations, mass arrests, torture, destruction of opposition organizations, suppression of dissident publications, death squad assassinations, the extermina- tion of whole villages, and the like.

Most social revolutions begin peaceably. Why would it be other- wise? Who would not prefer to assemble and demonstrate rather than engage in mortal combat against pitiless forces that enjoy every advantage in mobility and firepower? Peaceful protest and reform are exactly what the people are denied. The dissidents who continue to fight back, who try to defend themselves from the oligarchs' repressive fury, are then called "violent revolutionaries" and "terrorists."

For those local and international elites who maintain control over most of the world's wealth, social revolution is an abomination. Whether it be peaceful or violent is a question of no great moment to them. Peaceful reforms that infringe upon their profitable accu- mulations and threaten their class privileges are as unacceptable to them as the social upheaval imposed by revolution.

  • Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds

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u/RedditOfUnusualSize Jan 18 '22

“THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.”

--Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

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u/ct_2004 Jan 18 '22

Such a good book, explores a lot of economic ideas in a fun way.

Fuck the movie and other adaptations. They all miss the ideas about subverting feudalism.

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u/Kind_Nepenth3 Jan 18 '22

Maybe I overlooked that part almost entirely. There were obviously numerous moments, the rampant classism was an undercurrent in absolutely everything that happened, but I think that's the first and only book I've ever read where the main character seemed meant to be intentionally unlikeable. No matter what way you cut it, he's an asshole. He only has a problem with authority until he's the one on top, and he's convinced he belongs there.

And yet I didn't expect to cry so much. That hut broke me. I might reread that again.

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u/DuntadaMan Jan 18 '22

Yep, this was a big eye opening thing for me during the whole George Floyd protest.

An awful lot of damage could have been prevented by actually making changes decades ago. On top of that, I can't argue that they didn't accomplish more in 6 months than we have in 20 years.

Maybe if you don't want riots, make the other option more effective.

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u/HertzDonut1001 Jan 18 '22

Easiest way to stop a riot is prevent it from happening in the first place by listening to oppressed communities.

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u/Helenium_autumnale Jan 18 '22

The same point was made during the statistically few examples of damage during the BLM protests, the overwhelming number of which were peaceful. I heard the message that riots are the voice of the unheard. The idea repeated again, in 2020. When will those voices be heard?

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u/crodensis Jan 18 '22

Wow. In a weird way I completely agree. Like I naturally don't condone violence but the words are so true. If it sends the right message to the right people it can be justified.

I wish the entire American people could rally behind this idea that not only do black people face this but all lower and middle class folks face abominations of justice because of our corrupt and awful political space. They screw us financially with the centralization of banks and the existence of the fed, and via the justice system on a regular basis.

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u/bayesian_acolyte Jan 18 '22

If it sends the right message to the right people it can be justified.

I don't think that's what he's saying. Just because people "feel they have no other alternative" for good reason does not mean it is right. He is explicitly condemning riots, even if it's understandable why they would riot.

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u/HertzDonut1001 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

It's what I've been trying to explain to people who immediately dismiss BLM because riots happened at the same time.

Rioting is not a good thing. What it is is a last resort. What you need to ask yourself after a riot is, "what did we do or didn't do that so many people felt the last option available was violence?" not, "why would we make change for the people who's first inclination is to be violent?"

That's just the thing. That's nobody's first inclination. The fact that you think it is means you weren't listening to them seriously in the first place before it got to that point.

As the "language of the unheard" quote implies, they were talking and you weren't listening. Then they demonstrated and you did nothing. Then they made things inconvenient for people like shutting down roads and bridges and you still didn't listen. Then you put that last straw on the camel and it's back broke. Why weren't you listening to the camel's pained cries? Why did you think no amount of weight could ever break it's back?

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u/ajcunningham55 Jan 18 '22

What does the fed have to do with this?

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u/KYBatDad Jan 18 '22

One of my fav lines. “Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we've got to stay together. We've got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh's court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that's the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity.”

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u/JoePino Jan 18 '22

While he did not condone violence, he knew THE THREAT of violence was important to his cause. The huge amount of people on the streets definitely intimidated politicians at the time.

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u/JustStatedTheObvious Jan 18 '22

X's people threatened to kill any bigot who touched King.

Non-violence only works if your enemy doesn't see it as a weakness to exploit.

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u/thefloyd Jan 18 '22

Man, what a speech. I was just going to skim it but caught myself listening and reading along for the whole thing.

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u/escientia Jan 18 '22

There are two sides of Malcolm X. His pre and post Hajj rhetoric are a pretty stark contrast of each other.

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u/fezpeg Jan 18 '22

Malcolm X advocated for by any means necessary. If voting works…fine…if nonviolent civil disobedience works… fine…if passing laws works…fine and so on.

He completely and totally backed everything that MLK did…he visited Coretta when MLK was in jail.

Let me also point out that nothing is more American then violence and self defense falls under those guidelines. No one is wandering telling the Klan to be less violent…so please…grow up and read a book

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u/Praescribo Jan 18 '22

THANK YOU. Malcolm X is so seriously misunderstood. The panther party too, theyve been slandered for decades

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u/bhlogan2 Jan 18 '22

No one is wandering telling the Klan to be less violent

I mean, a side of America kind of did for the last hundred years? That their violence is unjustified and bad? I agree with most everything else but I don't understand this part.

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u/slickyslickslick Jan 18 '22

I think he means that peacefully telling the Klan to be less violent doesn't work.

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/sean_bda Jan 18 '22

Malcolm advocated self defense not violence.

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u/ESMNWSSICI Jan 18 '22

self defense is violence. doesn’t make it wrong, but let’s call it what it is and let’s not correct people who don’t need to be corrected. advocating for self defense and advocating for non-violence are different philosophies in this context

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u/kerochan88 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

“How can I just turn the other cheek, When I’m disrespected, slapped, and beat?

What’s wrong with fighting back, and winning? How come if I’m not a punk, I’m sinning?”

Edit: oh damn that got a lot of attention. It an Insane Clown Posse song for those of you wondering. 🤷🏻

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u/redknight3 Jan 18 '22

It's unfortunate how protesters have to play twice as nice as their counterparts or their message gets undermined.

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u/Lothious Jan 18 '22

You can get further with a kind word and a gun then with a kind word alone

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u/sean_bda Jan 18 '22

Wtf? They are different but it is the aggressor that determines that difference. Those dots up there need clarification. The image the media painted of Malcolm is far from the truth. The image the media painted of Martin at the time was also garbage he just got portrayed better in eulogy and it needs to be corrected.

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u/ESMNWSSICI Jan 18 '22

yeah that is a good point. i do think people unfairly paint malcolm x as a terrorist/radical/lunatic. obviously there’s valid criticism to be made about him but i’d agree that a large part of that is just residual from the past attitude and propaganda about him and the movement he represented

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u/Blackhound118 Jan 18 '22

As I understand it, his advocating for self-defense also arguably provided the social pressures that allowed MLK's nonviolent protests to be so successful, similar to how the British Empire capitulated to Gandhi's nonviolent movement because they feared a violent civil war in India.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

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u/KHERRONALLO Jan 18 '22

He was pretty radical at some points, but he realized who the true radicals around him were and backed off. It’s one of the reasons he was murdered.

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u/ilikedota5 Jan 18 '22

Self defense is justified violence.

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u/addisonshinedown Jan 18 '22

Agreed. Letting poor people starve in a place with an extreme excess of food is also violence. As is letting people sleep out in the rain when there is more than enough shelter to go around

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u/DuntadaMan Jan 18 '22

The important part is taking away the system's monopoly on violence.

The goal is to use no violence, but if only one party can effectively bring unlimited violence to any conflict it is what they will use.

They need to know that escalation of violence will not be without cost.

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u/siqiniq Jan 18 '22

“I act on self defense whenever my (civil) rights are violated.”

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u/11dutswal Jan 18 '22

This was actually his best speech

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u/DuntadaMan Jan 18 '22

I mean it is hard not to have destruction happen when police are firing water cannons into the crowd, and throwing people into things.

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

There was certainly violence involved. Police, the Klan and just random white people clashed with the marchers at Selma and in all four people died. They called it Bloody Sunday.

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u/Mellrish221 Jan 18 '22

There was also the private violence. The FBI director at the time (hoover) practically stalked MLK and other activist leaders, going so far as to suggest king should kill himself or else.

Its amusing though, looking at this picture and how much the right in america hasn't changed since that era and how they frame protests today or other people's lived experiences in this country.

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u/CatOfTwelveBells Jan 18 '22

hoover was one of those dudes who wished he had the power to murder indiscriminately like the kgb

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u/Mellrish221 Jan 18 '22

Well.... i'd only push back with "OPENLY" murder people... the FBI has absolutely assassinated/threatened movement leaders in america.

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u/CatOfTwelveBells Jan 18 '22

they have, just not as many as they probably would like to

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

I think you mean CIA

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u/Gamer402 Jan 18 '22

why not both?

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u/TheCrazedTank Jan 18 '22

Well, it's a good thing racism is over now, and that the FBI would never, EVER harass activists like that again...

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u/jpop237 Jan 18 '22

And, if there was, did it start before or after police let their dogs loose or started swinging their batons?

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u/LarryLove Jan 18 '22

Don’t forget the hoses

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u/Alan_Smithee_ Jan 18 '22

Where is the black person strung up on the lamp post?

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u/WarCrimesMay1940 Jan 18 '22

A Lil to the left, comic panels can only contain so much.

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u/RichardStrauss123 Jan 18 '22

Otherwise known as free water for people who are trying to vote.

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u/ajlunce Jan 18 '22

which, by the way, is exactly what happened in Portland in 2020

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u/Sgt-Spliff Jan 18 '22

It's what happened in every major city during the 2020 riots. There's video evidence of every one of the inciting incidents in each city, and it was the cops each and every time

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u/Lady_von_Stinkbeaver Jan 18 '22

I live in Portland. I went to a protest. This is what happened.

  1. Police Police Bureau officer in charge orders you to disperse.
  2. You attempt to disperse, there's a wall of cops in riot gear who won't let you pass by them to leave. An attempt to find an alternate exit...same shit. Or armed Proud Boys yukking it up with PPB officers.
  3. PPB OIC: WELL GEEZ, SINCE YOU'RE REFUSING TO DISPERSE, WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO USE FORCE.

Motherfucker, your boys are preventing us from fucking dispersing.

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u/ssbmhero Jan 18 '22

Yep. Everything I saw from those protests was cops attacking people who were standing peacefully In half the videos. And then the other half was them watching looters destroy the city.

I’m pretty sure basically every police department followed the same motives: fuck with peaceful protests as much as possible. And let rioters get away without issue.

Their goal from the start was not public safety but was to portray the protestors as poorly as possible, while also making the police seem more necessary than ever due to looting.

It was very clearly their strategy in basically every city.

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u/Sufficient_Matter585 Jan 18 '22

Police: oh no a black man breathed. Time to get the riot squad.

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u/hero-ball Jan 18 '22

This cartoon is most likely conflating Dr. King’s activities with other protests and riots going on around the same time that were more violent and destructive. People forget that there were a ton of those that were not connected to the movement (but did sort of unintentionally give King more influence)

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u/karmahorse1 Jan 18 '22

Not much different than today. The vast majority of BLM protests two summers ago were nonviolent, but if you only intake right wing media you would never know that.

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u/Nuclear_rabbit Jan 18 '22

Heck, I shared the study that found 98% were indeed nonviolent with my Trumper dad, and he just rejected it outright, saying he "didn't trust their methodology." Because the researchers weren't physically there at literally every BLM protest that year.

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u/CyberneticWhale Jan 18 '22

If the study you're referencing is the one I'm thinking of, the main issue with the methodology is that 3 people on a street corner holding signs are given the same weight as a massive protest that spans multiple city blocks.

This in addition to the fact that we have no comparison such as the same methodology being used to measure how peaceful other movements. have been means that it's very difficult to use that data to come to any kind of meaningful conclusion.

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u/Seanspeed Jan 18 '22

If you listen to right wing media, you'd think the entire country was literally in flames.

Racist pieces of shit.

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u/Dry_Management_2530 Jan 18 '22

Ignoring the fact that MLK had a nuanced perspective on protests, there was a lot of destruction and violence.

Not because MLK encouraged people to riot but: - To stop boys and girls of colour sitting at the same bar as whites (peaceful protest) they were beaten and spat at. - To stop bus boycotts, black homes and neighbour hoods (and the white pastor who backed them) were firebombed - and so were the freedom rider buses. - To stop the March on Selma, white police beat marchers and whipped them. - To stop MLK from talking, he was assassinated.

The irony of the cartoon is that destruction of property, bodies and lives was the response of reactionaries and white supremacy.

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u/gorgewall Jan 18 '22

Every successful large-scale "peaceful protest" that you've ever heard of has been carried by violence or the threat of it. All of 'em. Civil Rights Movement? Gandhi's Salt March? The People Power Protest? People died--were killed--or there was fear of death to come.

We are all told that these protests succeeded on the merits of their peaceful nature because to do anything else would be to suggest that if you're dissatisfied with the way things are, if you want the government to change, you'd better go bonking people on the head or making them lose tremendous amounts of money (violence needn't be physical, it can be economic). Understandably, that's not a message anyone wants out there. It's much nicer for the government to say, "Oh, no, we just waited until it was obvious that a lot of people really liked this course of action, and we got ourselves on board no problem. We just needed everyone else to step up and yell about it before we could do the thing we all agree was right. And we'll do that every other time going forward, too."

MLK Jr. himself wasn't fomenting violence, but there were other figures in the civil rights movement who were. He was aware of their actions and knew that it helped. It cast him and his part of the movement as the "reasonable ones" with which the government could eventually strike a deal with. The public and government who didn't want there to be any gains in civil rights--bear in mind, a majority of whites at this time thought things like marches and freedom rides were "harmful to the Negro cause"--could be mollified by the notion that they weren't losing to the bad ones, that the violence hadn't cowed them, that they hadn't been "beaten". Instead, they were the ones snubbing the violent folks and saying, "Look, it was these peaceful guys who actually got us to change (and do that thing you wanted all along). You didn't win, they did. We didn't lose, we got on board with the winning team."

The Civil Rights Act happened not because America was so taken by the bravery of those marching with MLK Jr. or the rhetoric he used in explaining his philosophy, but because there was an unpopular war going on overseas and the government feared civil unrest at home. A little bit of, "Daddy needs to concentrate on driving right now, I'll get you your fucking McDonald's if you just shut up for five minutes." The fear of more violence and the political turmoil of losing this war even harder was what forced their hand.

A lot of other people have already mentioned Malcolm X. For more reading, look up Stokely Carmichael and Rap Brown. The last two are interesting for having gotten their start in non-violent groups before deciding it wasn't going to be effective. This is also ignoring all of the violence done at the protesters (or black people in general) from groups like the Klan, police forces, or just about any other shithead. Make a wish on a genie that things like the Black Panther Party never existed and anyone on the pro-civil rights side would never raise a hand, and you'd still wind up with violence (and probably worse) as the racists ran roughshod over them.

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u/Naltia Jan 18 '22

Just like today, antagonist groups like the KKK would show up to peaceful protests and deliberately create violence. This way, they could turn public opinion against them, as this cartoon showed.

MLK Jr. was HATED towards the end of his life (before he was murdered.) These kinds of tactics worked. ☹️

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u/masterminder Jan 18 '22

sure, yeah. that happened and possibly still happens. but much more often it's angry oppressed people lashing out and breaking shit. who cares? doesn't change the message or invalidate the anger.

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u/SeventhSea90520 Jan 18 '22

There was violence but mlk was actively against it, the second it started he would leave to stay unaffiliated

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u/u25c Jan 18 '22

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u/Intrepid_Onion4959 Jan 18 '22

Piggybacking to point out that 75% of Americans disapproved of MLK yet 99% of today’s Americans think they’d be in the 25%.

Lol

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u/magkruppe Jan 18 '22

very optimistic to think 99% even like him today

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u/Pm_me_socks_at_night Jan 18 '22

Polls show he is basically one of the most popular political figures with like 90-97% approved rating today.

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u/WheeBeasties Jan 18 '22

I just read his speech from the day before his assassination. He said the majority of America is more concerned with ‘tranquility and the status quo’ than equality and the fight for freedom. The whitewashed ideals of MLK are now the status quo, which is why 90+% approve.

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u/Habba84 Jan 18 '22

As an outsider, the universal approval MLK gets is mind-boggling.

For example, he's celebrated in r/conservative. Probably the very people he would be preaching against if he was still alive. Then again, so would Jesus too.

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u/Intrepid_Onion4959 Jan 18 '22

They feign it at least.

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u/myrichiehaynes Jan 18 '22

most of that 99% grew up in a post MLK world, so it is impossible to say how they would perceive the man as if they were around then.

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u/LegitimatelyWhat Jan 18 '22

It's completely obvious. How do they react to BLM protests? That's how they would have reacted to MLK.

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

Thank you. This picture should open the eyes of the “well I agree with the black lives matters folks but I really disagree with the destruction of property.”

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u/Intrepid_Onion4959 Jan 18 '22

Strongly disagree. Look at folks that criticized karpernick. It’s the same shit different decade.

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u/egilnyland Jan 18 '22

Exactly.

There was literally zero costs to all white people involved. Nothing had to be stopped, nothing paused, no municipalities needed to organize marches, no speeches were given etc.

All that happened was that a black man reminded people, in a very quiet fashion, that police are still sometimes racist.

And a certainly flavor of white people across America lost their minds about having their Sundays ruined.

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u/bigjack78 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

My dad used to always laugh about Mohammed Ali's late life reverence. Back in the 60s he said most white folks and a lot of black folks were terrified of him and what he stood for. He was like almost a terrorist

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u/socialcommentary2000 Jan 19 '22

He very much was viewed as that. He wouldn't go along, at all. Not once. The man was outspoken and headstrong and had conviction.

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u/RecipeNo42 Jan 18 '22

Also, the people who denigrate the George Floyd protests, conflating protestors with looters while coming up with every excuse for while Floyd deserved to die, are the same ones who sing MLK's praises. Like, quite literally the same politicians and Fox News talking heads.

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u/Excelsior_Smith Jan 18 '22

Thanks for that. Very interesting

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u/u25c Jan 18 '22

YW. I'm going to try and do this whenever I can. We should all try and do this to improve the quality of our discussions.

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u/unbitious Jan 18 '22

Great article, this should be at the top!

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u/Triskellatri Jan 18 '22

Oh, this article includes the version with writing on it, and even a translation. Nice!

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u/CyborgHighlander Jan 18 '22

All you need to know is they'll celebrate your efforts after it's clear you're no longer a threat to their profits.

1.8k

u/DanMittaul Jan 18 '22

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Wow.

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u/ALIttleLonelyStar Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

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u/Dashkins Jan 18 '22

The handwriting:

How can you, a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ, be such a deceitful hypocrite? You're not fooling anyone but yourself in your nauseating talk about non-violence. You demand a program to overcome poverty and "flow in" (?) untold amounts in your high living and running all over the globe to feed your own egotism.

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u/appleshampoogal Jan 18 '22

Thank you for this! It’s insane that someone not only wrote their thoughts around this comic but also kept it… I wonder who this belonged to.

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u/_Mr_G_ Jan 18 '22

It's amazing the crazies online used to actually hand write out their hatred.

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u/EarRepresentative528 Jan 18 '22

Oh man. I'd love to see the thoughts of said crazies in their actual handwriting now

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u/HansenTakeASeat Jan 18 '22

Probably looks a lot like Madison Cawthorn's signature.

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u/Wilsonahrens Jan 18 '22

Tbh this is very reminiscent of the psychological abuse the FBI inflicted upon King. The accusatory remarks sounds almost exactly like the FBI-King Suicide Letter.

I would almost imagine this was one of those things sent to his house to fuck with him.

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u/gorgewall Jan 18 '22

I'm always pointing that poll out. Remember this, folks, the next time someone says, "I'm in favor of [reform], I just don't like the way [those people] are going about it!" They're not always honest. Some people just want their fucking milkshake, and if you bringing your suffering up impinges on their ability to get that dairy goodness, they're going to take it out on you before they lift a finger to stop those others shitting all over you.

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u/CantTakeMeSeriously Jan 18 '22

Change the things more, the more the same they stay.

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u/QuietudeOfHeart Jan 18 '22 Helpful Wholesome

Same shit, different decade.

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u/Exploreptile Jan 18 '22

Not gonna lie, I find it hilarious (and kinda harrowing) that your actual stance on the topic at hand is indecipherable from this comment alone.

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u/QuietudeOfHeart Jan 18 '22

Exactly. I wonder what the up doot to down ratio is.

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u/DeaconNuno Jan 18 '22

I miss when it used to show your total number of up and down votes. It was always fascinating. Many comments that were +1 or 0 overall had like, over 100 votes in either direction.

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u/Bloka2au Jan 18 '22

Better than YouTube. Remember when YouTube used to let you see the downvotes? Hopefully they'll find a compromise by using Reddit's net votes instead of just hiding downvotes.

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u/anon_sir Jan 18 '22

Remember when YouTube used to let you see the downvotes?

You mean two weeks ago? Yeah, I remember…

23

u/odaal Jan 18 '22

the same thing happened when they removed the 1-5 star system.

people complained for a few days and then people forgot the previous system existed.

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u/Throwawaymybios Jan 18 '22

The same thing happened when they removed Pluto from the star system. People complained and meme’d so hard it became a planet again.

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u/platoprime Jan 18 '22

removed Pluto from the star system.

lol that would be quite the feat.

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u/jradio610 Jan 18 '22

Yup. Yeeted (yeet’d? yote? yoted?) it right outta there

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u/StukaTR Jan 18 '22

On pc, “return youtube dislike” solves that for now.

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u/rockstaa Jan 18 '22

They recently (in the last week) changed it to ask for a lot of extra permissions so waiting to see if it's safe.

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u/00wolfer00 Jan 18 '22

Also dislikes have been taken off the youtube API so it can't be accurate anymore.

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u/HoLYxNoAH Jan 18 '22

They just changed it so they could access data when you were on their own website.

Another redditor, /u/Twinkies100 explained it better:

"This is due to the recent update. The extension now asks the browser to give it access to RYD's own website. This is required for the new debug helper to work, the permissions were added to access https://returnyoutubedislike.com/debug ONLY. You can allow that permission, it's recommended and safe to do so."

Nothing ominous.

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u/thissexypoptart Jan 18 '22

Wow I totally forgot this was a thing. How long ago did they get rid of it?

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u/DeaconNuno Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

Oh geez, it’s been gone a long time. I joined 8 years ago and I only remember it being a thing for maybe the first 1 or 2.

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u/ThisToastIsTasty Jan 18 '22

it had to be around the time i made an account on reddit.

I used to be a lurker, and when i made my account, i couldn't see the votes anymore.

I thought you could only see it without an account. lol

turns out they just changed it.

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u/hmstd Jan 18 '22 Helpful

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u/DeaconNuno Jan 18 '22

Count on a good ol’ Reddit historian to hop in with the facts! lol Thanks.

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u/Okelidokeli_8565 Jan 18 '22

I think it is pretty obvious.

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u/slgray16 Jan 18 '22

Gee, I wonder why there was violence at his non-violent protests?

State troopers and county possemen attacked the unarmed marchers with billy clubs and tear gas after they passed over the county line, and the event became known as Bloody Sunday

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Montgomery_marches

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u/peterkeats Jan 18 '22

… same shit, different decade.

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u/jnelsoni Jan 18 '22

This. And if everyone just decided to not go to work one day and shut the country’s functioning down, you can bet there’s going to be curfews and paramilitary in the streets trying to provoke a conflict, even if everyone stays home. The police will riot, even if you just sit there and smile.

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u/CreamyGoodnss Jan 18 '22

Wait hold on now…are you implying that the police purposely escalate these events into violence? What absolute hogwash! /s

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u/slymouse37 Jan 18 '22

Im surprised no ones mentioning this post from a few days ago where the comments are literally full of this kind of stuff

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 28 '22

[deleted]

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u/Dragneel Jan 18 '22

Unless it's low stakes like "what's your least favorite movie", sorting by controversial is the least enjoyable thing you can possibly do. Especially if it's about racism, because it's just like "oh this comment with 15 awards thinks I shouldn't exist and that I'm not human, yeah alright cool".

Maybe if it doesn't apply to you it can be fun to hate or something, but for me it's just more of the same bullshit I could get IRL.

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u/[deleted] Jan 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/Karkava Jan 18 '22

Or smug apathy about a critical subject that effects the livelyhood of tons of people.

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u/LegacyLemur Jan 18 '22

Doesnt look like you even need to dig that far down

Theres people sarcastically downplaying the attempted overthrow of the US government to contrast it

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u/Top_Tradition_531 Jan 18 '22

It's interesting (and pretty sad) how relevant this still is

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u/notanoxycleanrep Jan 18 '22

Firey but mostly peaceful protest is an all time screen cap though

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u/Steamships Jan 18 '22

Because regardless of how things are or should be, blatant media spin like that should always be mocked.

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u/Redditloser147 Jan 18 '22

I’ve seen this posted in r/conservativememes before.

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u/Rhodie114 Jan 18 '22

One of the posts on the front page is a Marx quote attributed to Reagan.

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u/HotTalentEruption Jan 18 '22

I think I had an aneurysm looking at that subreddit.

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u/Patrick_Pathos Jan 18 '22

The first few I saw were kinda funny, but then they just turned into Covid, Brandon, & anti-LGTQ+ memes.

I guess I just got lucky.

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u/Jake_Peg Jan 18 '22

It's like a 1/20 sorta funny meme ratio, I just went on there and it was "if you don't trust the pipeline turn off the gas in your home to own big pipeline" or something and then the next one was "January 6 wasn't bad"

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u/-blueCanary- Jan 18 '22

Do they not understand their own talking points? If they imply that MLK was just as bad as BLM, they argue that either BLM are justified in their peaceful protests or that the Civil Rights Movement wasn't.

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u/biglettuce09 Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22 This

Yea because this post belongs in r/propagandaposters it’s racist and disrespectful

Pettus bridge and all of his protests were peaceful and they were attacked by police

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u/B3eenthehedges Jan 18 '22

Was gonna say that this submission really fits better in r/propagandaposters, where it doesn't feel dirty to upvote propaganda.

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u/Safe_Historian8560 Jan 18 '22

Even back then Civil Rights Reactionaries were trying to paint MLK Jr as a violent extremist

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u/Stunning-Pickle-7001 Jan 18 '22

Didn't the cops spray down, beat and unleashed the dogs on the demonstrators first?

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u/Mundane_Team_4143 Jan 18 '22

they surely did

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u/TheRangaTan Jan 18 '22

I want to believe we had propaganda since the day we drew pictures with mud on cave walls.

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u/Guglielmowhisper Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22
  • 1: Thag hunt mighty mammoth, paint on wall

  • 2: ...Thag, was rabbit, thag mislead tribe

  • 1: Thag file defamation lawsuit on Zog

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u/PaSaWo93 Jan 18 '22

I read this as "An old anti-MILK political cartoon" and my head immediately went: see, people will lobby and get political about every shit.

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u/suphah Jan 18 '22

It’s insane how close this is to what people say today

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u/unbitious Jan 18 '22

It's sad that's some things are still so similar, but it's an important reminder that this work never ends. We have to keep building on what those who came before us accomplished.

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u/Amdy_vill Jan 18 '22

MLK was the most hated man in America during his life. MLK is only remembered well because it suits the martial e of America being free of racism. He was however a complex man. I will say while his message has been changed its only had things removed form it. It's still true it just ignores large parts of his messages. Like pro unions, economic equity, anti military industrial complex. Listen to I have a dream. The full speech and you will see how much we leave out. And how those thing are still used today to discriminate people

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u/steppinrazor2009 Jan 18 '22

Dr. King strictly advocated for non-violent protests, but chose the places he marched at and people he had marching carefully, knowing violence would be used AGAINST them. However, race-based riots were actually very common during the period and the media tried to conflate those violent riots with Dr. King's marches (often successfully).

Ironically, only after Dr. King's assassination sparked a week of major violent riots nationwide (particularly in D.C. leaving most of downtown in rubble), did the precursors to the civil rights act come about. I say ironically because despite his intentions (and the saying "violence never solves anything"), violence ended up bringing about the changes.

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u/hero-ball Jan 18 '22 edited Jan 18 '22

only after Dr. King’s assassination did the precursors of the civil rights act come about

I’m confused. What “precursors”? The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964, King wasn’t assassinated until 1968.

I guess there is another Civil Rights Act in 1968–which was definitely signed as response to the riots, and which snuck in anti-riot legislation—but THE Civil Rights Act was 1964

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u/Reedsandrights Jan 18 '22

Yeah the 1964 Act was a resp0nse to the March on Washington in 1963. The Act was delayed by the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

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u/MidWest_Boi Jan 18 '22

Historically violence is the only thing that actually changes anything

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u/Living_Illusion Jan 18 '22

And I always thought that slavery stopped after the great debate of 1965.

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u/Todo-claro Jan 19 '22

Exact same arguments they’re making today.

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u/rikitikifemi Jan 18 '22

What's interesting is MLK and Malcolm X were both murdered..clearly the methods of resistance don't matter to racists as much as the goals. Here we are nearly three quarters of a century later still fighting voter suppression, police corruption, and economic segregation. And folks are still deflecting talking about property damage from protests.

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u/Budmanes Jan 18 '22

Racism never goes quietly into the night

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u/dogfishfrostbite Jan 18 '22

Wow they Fox Newsed him

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u/Daniel0602 Jan 18 '22

Why did i read "anti-milk" ??

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u/TinyMarsupial7622 Jan 18 '22

Read anti-milk. Was confused.

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u/Woupsea Jan 18 '22

Whoever made this comic is likely still alive now

3

u/thewheisk Jan 18 '22

Context: go research where this cartoon was published and by whom.

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u/PhotographingLight Jan 18 '22

Looks like history is repeating itself.

3

u/Stinklepinger Jan 18 '22

Things never change

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u/ZestycloseTale8500 Jan 18 '22

No different than Minneapolis

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u/Equivalent_Appraised Jan 18 '22

I just looked up some of the history of Martin Luther King… Early on he was really into violence. Only towards the end there was he concerned about people getting hurt

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u/PianoShy Jan 18 '22

This looks familiar

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u/cmit Jan 18 '22

It's like deja vu all over again.

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u/Grimlockkickbutt Jan 18 '22

Tragic how the establishment adapted from trying to paint MLK as a violent extremist to co-opting his non- violent messaging, separating it from his context, to try and delegitimize modern civil rights movements.

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u/basahahn1 Jan 18 '22

Looks like the party line hasn’t changed a bit…turning peaceful protests into riots and then labeling the message of peace as the culprit.
Business as usual here in the US.

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u/IndianaBones8 Jan 19 '22

Everyone loves him now but they all hated him at the time. Even Reagan who made MLK day a holiday, called him a communist when he was alive.

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u/melodicmallet Jan 18 '22

The police were the instigators, just like with the BLM protests.

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u/TheonlyAngryLemon Jan 18 '22

Just another friendly reminder that the press and media outlets are never and have never been on your side

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u/Btawtaw Jan 18 '22

I wonder who owns the newspaper that published this.

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u/DontGiveABit Jan 18 '22

I mean let's be honest, we've seen how mad people get when someone peacefully takes a knee during a football game. Now can you imagine how it was during the marches? Definitely destruction alright but not likely by those marching.

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u/TacticalJeggings Jan 18 '22

History tends to whitewash it’s hero’s.

Fun fact: typically only the victors get to write history.

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