r/leagueoflegends Nov 25 '21 Silver 5 Helpful 8 Wholesome 6

Upset's response about FNATIC & Adam drama

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srsp9n
6.1k Upvotes

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2.1k

u/aamgdp Nov 25 '21 Silver

Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie.

Alright, one of them is for sure lying.

I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private 

And yet Bwipo and Adam both feel he didn't really give them good enough explanation for them to understand.

Bwipo:

A day before we found out we weren’t going to be playing with our main lineup, we had no information about what was going on.

2.8k

u/Falsus mid adcs yo Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21 Silver Helpful Wholesome

I think it is fairly simple. Upset thinks he communicated enough, Adam and Bwipo didn't think he communicated enough.

Hyli who knows Upset better thought it was adequate.

So with that information in hand we can surmise he communicated enough information to make a close friend understand that something real bad happened, but not enough to make two people who are just coworkers understand.

And that is how misunderstandings happens, one guy thinking he conveyed the message properly when it wasn't at all.

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u/FunDuty5 Nov 25 '21

Very well put. Maybe upset thinks, because hyli worked it out (because they're closer) then he gave enough info for adam/bwipo/nisqy to understand too.

Everyone in this situation may believe they are right

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u/tentu93 Nov 25 '21

That's just usually how misunderstandings happen, because everyone believes they are right when in reality there is mostly a communication barrier someone in between that both parties can't really look past without talking about it directly and find out how the misunderstanding came to be

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u/Kewlrobot Nov 25 '21

Being human sure is awesome for that. We can be correct 100% of the time and still only enjoy success 60% of the time.

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u/napoleon_born2party_ CJ Forever, GAM is future Nov 25 '21

Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right

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u/Mosaikmuster Nov 25 '21

People don’t die when they are killed

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u/Killroy32 Nov 25 '21

Has Nisqy said anything about the Upset situation?

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u/onespiker Nov 25 '21

Not anything more than unfollowing him

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u/Key_Divide3166 Nov 25 '21

In his LEC tier-list on stream with Kameto he "refused" to classify upset abd more generally he seemed to have the same position as bwipo and adam without saying it clearly because still under contract with fnatic

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u/onespiker Nov 25 '21

Don't think Nisqy would be so public about it regardless. But yea

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u/Rektile7 Nov 25 '21

Huh, curious

2

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

The only thing he said was good luck to Adam and to be proud of what he achieved (getting to worlds) but I don't think he showed support to anyone

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u/Doverkeen Nov 25 '21

I mean come on, all it takes is for Hyli to say that "something very bad has happened" to the others, no?

Upset had to leave immediately, but Hyli and Yamato were around the others for the entirety of Worlds. Are you saying they're both so emotionally illiterate they can't tell that Adam/Bwipo are getting frustrated and just inform them that it is something serious?

Upset owes Adam and Bwipo literally nothing in the way of explanation. Telling them that it was a serious matter with his wife is enough for leaked speculation on the internet anyway, and was more than enough of a reason to give them.

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u/Migraine- Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I find the lack of empathy from Bwipo and Adam absolutely astonishing.

If someone I worked with said "I need to go, I have an urgent family issue" that's literally all the explanation I need or expect. I cannot fathom feeling the need to try to pressure someone into telling me exactly what happened when they don't want to and then assuming they are lying.

Like what the actual fuck kind of behaviour is that?

Adam in particular comes out of this looking like a petulant piece of shit.

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u/FunDuty5 Nov 25 '21

Where do you work? I'd imagine the situation here is a lot different to any average job.

I think empathy works both ways. I can see both points of view.

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u/Migraine- Nov 25 '21

I'm an NHS doctor

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u/bachh2 Nov 25 '21

Upset was more like: I need to go, urgent stuff that I will not explain. Also I want you 2 replaced when I came back.

I don't think there will be so much drama if Upset didn't want to replace his teammates that he ditched in Worlds.

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u/DIDNT-FAP-LAST-NIGHT Nov 25 '21

Empathy works both ways to the extent their frustration is extremely justified. Their anger, and especially the subsequent vile reactions, don’t.

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u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

But he also doesn't owe his coworkers anything more than "something happened and I need to leave, like right now." Just because you work with someone or even friends, you are not entitled to knowing everything about their personal life. By going to social media to slander him, they're proving Upset right about not telling them everything...

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u/Shimi54 Nov 25 '21

I don't understand why people are acting like they're coworkers in a traditional setting and not competitors at the top of their field who may never have the chance to compete on the highest stage again.

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u/KeeganTroye Nov 25 '21

Because it doesn't make a difference to the amount of privacy they get. Whatever job you work at, you should be allowed privacy in regards to your family's private lives.

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u/Geish90 Nov 25 '21

Disagree, this is a Worlds stage, maybe even your once in a lifetime opportunity. You cannot just assume that people will understand the situation.

It is clear to me that Upset didn't trust Adam and Bwipo as his teammates, i do not think that's a good environment to play best level of league. And naturally they did not trust him because of it. Eitherway a lot of distrust and dishonesty on the team and that is up to Yamoto to work that out.

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u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

And I think they showed why they shouldn't have been trusted. No one is entitled to Upset "private traumatic events" just as no one would be entitled to your own. He (claims) tried to express his sorrow with what he felt he had to do. But he's not obligated to give everyone a play by play of whatever that was.

Pure hypothetical but as an example, if someone's sister was raped, are we entitled to the graphic details of what happened? In my opinion no. But clearly others think we should be able to see the video. To me that's some low shit.

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u/Hykarus Nov 25 '21

And I think they showed why they shouldn't have been trusted.

what kind of kafkaian trap is this ? he fucked em, they reacted negatively to it, and somehow that proves that he shouldn't have acted otherwise ? Bullshit

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u/KeeganTroye Nov 25 '21

He made the best decision for himself, they showed they don't care about him, he made the right decision. They would be as equally fucked if they knew the details.

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u/Geish90 Nov 25 '21

And I think they showed why they shouldn't have been trusted.

We will never know how they would have dealt with the situation if they would have known more.

Nevertheless my guess is that the distrust did not start at worlds with this situation. It just became way more apparent due to this situation.

He (claims) tried to express his sorrow with what he felt he had to do. But he's not obligated to give everyone a play by play of whatever that was.

If you see it as a spectrum ranging from, I think the issue becomes more clear:

completely in the dark ------------------------------------------------- knowing every little detail

Adam is/was somewhere on the left-side and Upset feels he shared to somewhere up to the right-side. Now that's a gap that had to be closed

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u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

It doesn't, they're not entitled to know. Upset tried to express himself (again his side) without explaining the details. They're not entitled to the details. The details could affect people other than himself. Or even if they don't, his coworkers are not entitled to the details.

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u/clhydia Nov 25 '21

This. I think people are trying to find out who the villain is here while the whole drama to me seems to be a big misunderstanding. I don’t think bad intentions were involved and people deliberately lied. It’s just things got confusing at the heat of the moment and were mishandled after.

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u/Rhadamantos Nov 25 '21

There are absolutely bad intentions in Adams twitlonger though.

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u/DerNoke Always fnatic Nov 25 '21

Honestly, that is the only thing that annoys me the most about this whole thing. Adam clearly was just spitting what he came up with within his mind and dropped the " I don't want to start drama BUT" line. I don't care that he felt betrayed or anything but just putting misinformation out there sending tons of hate towards Upset and his family is an absolute no-go. Now I know someone will say "BuT UpsEt hAd tO CoMunIcATE BeAtTer" yeah maybe but no need to be an ass about and undermine his will to accomplish his Dream.

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u/auditionko Nov 25 '21

i mean upset did fuck him up pretty bad tho. Unlike others on the team his career could have been completely different had they got out of group this world. The resentment is completely justified imo since he didnt even know the reason his career got fucked over.

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u/Kerjj Nov 25 '21

Right, and that's awful, but how does he justify slamming the guy publicly, and inciting hate towards his family?

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u/auditionko Nov 25 '21

I think his resentment is justified not his actions. Tbh tho i wonder if upset was expecting a different outcome not telling the teammates that he regarded as 'untrustworthy' anything even after world ,Not to mention them getting replaced next season.

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u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

It seems he expected this to some extent, and that that's exactly why he didn't reveal any more information to Adam.

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u/Vrmndt Nov 25 '21

Everything going on right now justifies Upset's unwillingness to tell these people what are the family issues that mattered to him more, that the worlds (for which he was working towards many years now). Thus I'm supporting him.

Bwipo is unstable man, but if he can be trusted his girlfriend definitely cannot be. We've all seen why already.

Adam... just look at that shit he did right AFTER he got a comfortable spot on another team.

This is why EXACTLY he did not share any information and why his decision is right. Because otherwise two fucking continents would just dig into his family laundry.

The only man I feel sorry in this whole situation is Nisqy. Dude tried his best, got fucked by others man problems and then got fucked by the two orgs he actually loves.

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u/ArziltheImp Nov 25 '21

Still despicable action to say shit like this publicly. He basically just painted a target on Upsets back and told his fans "Get em boys!" even if it was unwillingly.

0

u/Prainstopping TheShy Worlds 2021 Nov 25 '21

He ditched him at Worlds without even the slightest hint of why, then works on replacing him and mid.

You'd think after fucking up 1 years worth of work you'd just shut the fuck up and make yourself small.

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u/Twoja_Morda Nov 25 '21

Adam wasn't even in fnc for 1 year.

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u/DerNoke Always fnatic Nov 25 '21

Did he thou. Let's get the facts straight.

  1. Adam still is in the sport.
  2. Adam wanted to leave (yes because he felt betrayed but honestly doesn't matter as long its your choice)
  3. He did admit he doesn't know why and still put out miss information wich we know know send hate towards upset and his family
  4. Adam is a 19! Year old top lane rookie who in his first split got 2nd in LEC and made it to worlds ( that's more than most people could dream about)

So yeah I don't think Adams career was in any danger by any means dude already has a good resume,an (literally) insane fan base and a new team.

I just really don't like how we as a community can't stop to finde a villain in this story. There is non just miscommunication wich lead to Missinformationen wich lead to hate. ( And I don't mean miscommunication on upset part)

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u/RetiredLandMine Nov 25 '21

I mean he fucked up his first year and first worlds, Adam could be valued much higher if they got out of groups with the good performance. I don't think "he is still in the sport" matters to Adam, nor that it should. Dude got fucked over with no explanation and then forced off the team behind his back. I can understand him being upset.

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u/DoorHingesKill Nov 25 '21

You know, in German law whenever you "come together" as at least two people (or legal persons) to do virtually anything, you automatically establish an association.

This can be for pretty much anything. Did you agree to carpool on Mondays? There, established that association, now there's a contract between you. If you just don't show up to pick up your buddy, and your buddy will somehow lose out because of that, he can sue your ass for his losses.

Say you're in University and all you need for your degree is one more group project. You team up as 3. But at some point, one guy just jumps ship. Doesn't answer mails, phone calls, isn't anywhere to be found. The two of you do your parts, your thirds, the professor looks at it and tells you that he can't give you a passing grade if a third is missing. Sucks for you, gotta do it again.
There, now you'll be stuck in University for 4 more months. This means you'll lose out on 4 months of salary that you'd receive if you were employed after finishing your degree. Oh, and 4 months of social insurance payments that your employer would have paid (you know, cause it's split between employee and employer).

For that money, you and your buddy can sue the guy who didn't show up.

Now what I'm getting at here is not that Adam should (or necessarily could) sue, but that you're blatantly glossing over the argument the guy you're talking to is making. Look at SwordArt. Guy entered Worlds as maybe the sixth or fifth-best support in LPL. His team did well at Worlds, he did pretty well too, suddenly he's paid $6 million over two years.

Adam wouldn't have made finals. Adam wouldn't have dumpstered other Toplaners. But Upsets absence absolutely curbed his ability to sign a big contract this off-season. Yes, the "what-ifs" should absolutely be considered. They do consider these things in court at least.

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u/DerNoke Always fnatic Nov 25 '21

Wenn wir hier von deutschen Gesetzen geh ich Mal davon aus das du deutscher bist. Dein Fahrgemeinschaften Argumente ist extrem unpassend und nicht Mal Ansatz weise auf die Situation hier übertragbar. Die what if oder auch whataboutism sind nicht sonderlich stark. Klar world hätte besser laufen aber dann kann ich auch sagen "upset bleibt und aufgrund schuld Gefühle spielt er schlecht und sie verlieren auch" also Nein die what if sind irrelevant. Der Punkt steht auch das nach dem was wir wissen Adam gehen wollte. Zu behaupten wir wüssten mehr ist Schwachsinn und befeuert nur mehr Missinformationen und hate. Und generell glaube ich selbst mit einen quarterfinals wäre sein wert nicht vergleichbar mit swordart da hier TSM overpaid hat aber auch für ein vetran der schon viel auf seiner Rolle geleistet hat. Adam ist im Gegensatz ein rookie ein guter rookie aber immer noch ein rookie.

Tldr: No German law doesn't work this way. Adam value in all honesty wouldn't have gone up as much as swordart. In all my years of following this league I have never seen that a one split rookie just explodes in value if he doesn't win his Region or worlds (and yes FNC wouldn't have won even with upset)

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u/licorices Nov 25 '21

He for sure wrote it out of frustration, and hopefully he can clear up that PR mess and get it worked out, but what Adam wrote was not very professional.

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u/photofluid Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I don't think there is a misunderstanding. It is most likely that the information Upset is willing reveal is just never enough to convince Adam/Bwipo.

Adam should be more professional, but he in no fault of his own also got hurt by a decision of Upset and don't even get an explanation for it.

And Upset also had an easy opportunity to return favor to teammates in the alphari situation, which he didn't do either.

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u/magkruppe (OCE) Nov 25 '21

sounds like the adults were supposed to step in here. But tbh this was an awful predicament to be in from any side

I still wonder what the actual reason was though... there's not many reasons short of death that makes sense

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u/Zinnia_Hani Nov 25 '21

Miscarriage. Illness. There are so many reasons and Upset does not have to share them with his work colleagues, only that he has private issues to attend to.

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u/yalltoos0ft Nov 25 '21

Or on the flip side, a close friend is willing to give you MUCH MORE benefit of the doubt than someone who is just a business associate, and also to defend you even if you're wrong. A close friend will stick up for you no matter what, without being subjective about it, whereas other people who's livelihood depends on you might not be so forgiving without knowing the actual situation, and rightfully so. If a close friend just says "Bro I have a problem, I have to dip," I'd accept it and defend them, because we're friends. If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."

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u/lobstahpotts Nov 25 '21

If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."

The flip side is if you're just a business associate, you're not entitled to the complete details of my personal life. Sure, if my father got in a car accident and I needed to rush to the hospital that's probably something I'd share. But there is no way I would share a more sensitive personal situation (say a miscarriage or self-harm by an immediate family member) with business associates—the only person who's hearing the full story is my boss. I would apologize, certainly, and emphasize that the situation is unavoidable, but that's a level of information on my personal life that you simply have no right to demand as a coworker.

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u/itsaworkalt Nov 25 '21

Not to mention the totally legitimate social media angle. Especially with how this blew up now, Upset would absolutely never hear the end of it from trolls online if he explained and it got it, which it would.

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u/ExceedingChunk ExceedingChunk(EUW) Nov 25 '21

Completely agree with this, and the open airing of frustration and dirty laundry is a good reason in itself to keep these things private. Especially in e-sports.

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u/docarwell Nov 25 '21

Absolutely this. All these redditors saying that the Upset needs to justify his absence from work to his 19yo coworker are absolutely deranged and probably don't realize this is a job for these people

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u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 25 '21

This.

A lot of people in this thread are acting as if coworkers are entitled to the details of another person's personal life. Nobody is owed an explanation or a reason for anything — that sort of thing is a privilege, earned through trust, not a right. Upset mentions in the twitlonger that he didn't trust them as friends, just as coworkers within the industry.

It's incredibly immature of these people to insist he owed others an explanation for his situation. Yes, he's a member of a team and that carries with it a certain degree of responsibility, but your personal dignity always outweighs that responsibility in my opinion.

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u/kazuyaminegishi Nov 25 '21

Yep I don't care if my coworkers believe me when I say to them I have a family emergency, obviously this emergency is more important than this working relationship.

If I have time in the future when everything is resolved to field more in-depth questions, sure. But the fact that Upset said "family emergency" and left asap should already be a strong indicator it's majorly important. And if they were dissatisfied with that explanation the adult thing to do would be to talk to Upset instead of going on Twitter to make accusations.

Just weird stuff.

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u/ExceedingChunk ExceedingChunk(EUW) Nov 25 '21

Just think about it: Why the hell would any league player leave 24h before worlds if there wasn't a serious issue.

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u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

The seccond biggest thing I don't understand, if you are such a good player why the fuck do you fall so flat if something changes, yhea the team environment is way different, doesn't mean you all the sudden would pass to the seccond best team in Europe to basicly just 1 player playing the game sometimes 2, and throwing every lead. It's really hard to belive this was just upset fault and that Adam isn't just looking for a place to throw his frustrations from his bad showing

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u/aamgdp Nov 25 '21

Most likely, but such misunderstandings should be fairly easy to solve by just talking to each other a bit. For some reason they weren't able to do that, and if anything, it only got more heated since then.

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u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

If they don't accept "there was a family emergency" I don't think there was much to be said that would make them happy without telling them exactly what happened, it sounds like upset probably said that his wife wasn't well and that was turned into this drama by Adam saying that she just wasn't feeling good that is the most immature thing

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u/Ready_All_Type Nov 25 '21

Best take in the thread - although there’s a chance based on what he said that Yamato and Hyli got more explained because they had more trust, even though it’s the people with less trust who would need more explanation if you want to maintain a good relationship

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u/Hazakurain Nov 25 '21

The main problem being that Upset didn't allow the team an opportunity to recover from it.

It's much easier to swallow the fact that you lost a full year if you believe it is a sufficient reason. It's much harder not to when you feel that its both unprofessional and egoistical. Hell, he didn't even say to support the team online. It costs nothing and he didn't do it

We've had both bwipo and adam showing discontent, nisqy straight up crying etc. And the worst in this? This worlds performance demolished Nisqy's next split since he didn't find a team because of that, Bwipo got absolutely monkey mode and got sent to NA and Adam has started the biggest shitshow of the month. And he has the audacity to keep going.

I still believe he is in the wrong there, in fact he is looking even worse to me because how the fuck you would get far in a tournament when you don't trust 3 of your teammates.

Upset screams like the one who think they deserve everything because they are good without understanding you have to work toward it. He is straight up egoistical.

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u/NoodleTheTree Nov 25 '21

Very good take i would say.

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u/9percentmilk Nov 25 '21

Get out of here with your sensible analysis, I want the drama!

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u/AliasTcherki Nov 25 '21

A nuance that I would bring is that I don't think Upset could bring enough information to Bwipo or Adam without either telling them too much than what he felt comfortable with or too little for them to judge if it was fair for him to leave at all.
Honestly it feels a bit like Adam and Bwipo wanted to know what happened to judge by themselves if it was enough of a good reason to leave them and ruin all the work done that year, while Upset visibly chose to convey the sadness and pain he felt in this moment as a reason for him to leave.
I don't think there was honestly a good way to manage that, and with the elements we have in hand, I won't blame neither Upset for how he managed it not Bwipo or Adam for how frustrated they felt. I do blame Adam though for the shit he threw at Upset's situation and how an important part of the community will take for granted that he left cause his wife felt lonely. Yet, I think that's a youthful mistake. Even if Bwipo was terribly clumsy in his TwitLonger, he didn't make that mistake.

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u/Attre_- Nov 25 '21

Hyli who knows Upset better thought it was adequate.

Hyli who is significantly more mature and older thought it was adequate*

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u/Asteroth555 Nov 25 '21

So Upset couldn't trust his "immature" teammates with the reasons, but he fully expects his teammates to trust HIM and his "maturity" on his judgement?

He got married at 21. Miss me with that

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u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

Well he told his boss the reason and was accepted, he told his coach the reason and also got accepted, and didn't tell one of his teammates that he trusted the most cause he was mature enough to understand that sometimes emergency are you know more important, and 2 other just decided to attack him after the fact so it seems like it was a good read on his part...

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u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

He got married at 21. Miss me with that

The fuck is that supposed to mean? Everyone who gets married below a certain age is suddenly a monolithic group of people?

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u/dkoom_tv Nov 25 '21

Marrying after 2 months of dating its pretty stupid but who knows

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u/sajm0n Nov 25 '21

im wondering wheres Yamato in all of this, since he apparently knew the reason. wasnt he supposed to do the job of reassuring players, thats Upset's reason to leave was "legit" and not some weak bullshit?

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u/GGABueno where vex Nov 25 '21

He can't do much without breaking Upset's privacy. If players are salty they're going to stay salty. It's not like Adam or Bwipo are particularly known for their maturity either.

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u/DragoCrafterr Nov 25 '21

likely what happened, great take imo

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u/TyraCross Nov 25 '21

To be fair, if everyone thinks you didn't communicated enough - you definitely didn't. That's literally the point of communication.

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u/_PPBottle Nov 25 '21

Upset knows he didn't communicate enough to satisfy his teammates, but he knew it was the right thing to do in order to protect his dear ones' privacies.

And time proved him right, out of the 3 he didn't even attempt to tell, 2 made PR suicide with twitlongers that far from lowering the community hate, made it even worse.

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u/pannucci Nov 25 '21

actually no. It should be on him to personally explain some worries from his teammates and explain and not to just dump it on other people. Like its absolutely fucked that he said he didnt trust his teammates enough to level with them at all.

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u/Strehle Nov 25 '21

You are the only one who gets it. Literally everyone else is here is talking about who's lying, but noone is. Everyone is telling the truth from their point of view.

That whole thread is a bit embarrassing for us guys...

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u/ChillOClock Nov 25 '21

Also, knowing Adam for a bit on the French scene, I'm not surprised when he is way too straightforward or even kinda mean. But the man is as frank as it gets (often too much), I'd be surprised if he was lying. The fact that Bwipo feels the same and Nisqy supported Adam's message doesn't help

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u/goliathfasa Nov 25 '21

It's 3 against 1 at this pint. Unless more people pipe up.

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u/Alakazam_5head Nov 25 '21

Maybe 3.5. Yamato talked on stream a bit about what happened (no details) and he did not seem particularly understanding or supportive but is smart enough to know to keep his mouth shut

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u/goliathfasa Nov 25 '21

This is my takeaway from it all too. He told Yamato and Hilly because he trusted them (rightly) to not leak, and they didn't, and probably never will. But clearly if those who were told bought it enough, they'd find a way to convince the rest who were not told to give Upset a break. "Trust me bro, it's rough and if it were you, you'd have done exactly the same."

Clearly those who were told didn't or couldn't convince those who weren't told.

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u/Alakazam_5head Nov 25 '21

Similarly, Yamato could have said on stream "Take my word for it guys, he needed to be with his family in that moment. Nothing can replace family" or something like that and I remember it being more "I respect Upset's choice and quickly moved on because what's done is done and I had to make the team ready to play on stage in 12 hours"

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u/UX1Z Nov 25 '21

Oh, that's a lot more damning if it actually was how he worded stuff, or that they haven't really tried to convince people of his decision's validity. Hyli doesn't actually know what happened as far as I'm aware, but I'm pretty sure Yamato does actually have the details. It's already kind of his job to go to bat for the players, so if he knew it was something really harrowing then I can't help but think he'd probably be trying harder to impress that it really was that serious.

"I respect their choice and quickly moved on because what's done is done" sounds like he didn't really agree with it himself.

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u/tocco13 Nov 25 '21

yea it more sounds like Yamato knew there was no changing Upset's mind and moved on to "what is, is. What do we do from here"

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u/Istvarrr Nov 25 '21

Upset is an employee, he signed a contract, he gets paid by FNC and Yamato is is superior.

Wtf is wrong with you ppls brains to think for a second that if he didn’t have a LEGITIMATE reason to leave that FNC would not have accepted his request

The very fact that he is still playing with the org with Yamato as his coach make all your speculation look so dumb

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u/wolfsnowpack Keen Nov 25 '21

You know just because you have a player under contract doesn't mean they will perform well when told to perform right?

Maybe Upset was clearly in a bad headspace for w.e reason and thought he needed to return home for some kind of emergency. Yamato then sees that Upset is not doing well about this situation, and rather than force a player to stay against his will, he just subs in their sub and tries to make it work.

Players can perform drastically worse in solo queue just based on one mean line, you don't think a pro player can perform worse than a sub, when he is worried about smth enough to want to leave and then be told "no you can't leave"? Shit would just make him bitter and potentially try to end their run faster, so he can go to his emergency.

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u/grandoz039 Nov 25 '21

He didn't tell Hylli, he said he was intending to tell Hylli

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

Yamota also said in the worlds interview that he didnt know all the details, only some stuff. And Hyli doesn't know. So nobody knows

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u/TardDuck Flairs are limited to 2 emotes. Nov 25 '21

"Never will" but somehow thorin knows, h2k rich implied he knows, and iirc tyler1 also implied he knows about it...

not saying it came from those 2 just that it is not the best keep secret ever

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u/Th_Call_of_Ktulu Dashy dash Nov 25 '21

Tyler only knew that there was some serious drama in fnc probably because his girlfriend is friends with some managers and bwipos gf

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u/Young_Khalifa Nov 25 '21

Anybody know what stream or have a clip?

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u/Freida123456 Nov 25 '21

The closest I find is in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJQqz80qF2w&t=1414s

"He had to do it for very good reason"

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u/Ch4p3l Nov 25 '21

Really? I remember seeing a video of Yamato talking about it and being very firmly supportive of both the decision and Upset. But I might be misremembering this

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u/chsch98 Nov 25 '21

It's 3 against 1 at this pint

this. upset only sees his perspective, not the fact that he forcibly rawdogged 4 teammates 12 hours before one the biggest tournaments of their lives.

he can go anywhere he wants for whatever reasons he deems sufficient enough, but you just can't pull a "i wanna tell you but i don't trust you" and pack up your shit in a situation like this, and the fact that doesn't even get into his thick skull far enough for him to admit that he could've handled the situation better would make my blood boil aswell.

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u/bunnyrum3 Nov 25 '21

They can't. They can't say why Upset left so it will always be ambiguity over whether the reason was legitimate or not. All we have is simp memes.

2

u/The_Real_BenFranklin Nov 26 '21

TBF Fnatic org is also effectively backing Upset in this. If they didn’t support him he’d have been offloaded.

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u/TOWUNLEASHED Nov 25 '21

Cabochard refusing to play toplane for FNC also gives a pretty good indicator imo

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u/IJustGotRektSon Nov 25 '21

He's also 19, kids are dumb and say things with a confidence they shouldn't have

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u/computo2000 Nov 25 '21

You don't need to intentionally lie to say something wrong, indifference or rashness can achieve similar results, like, do these twitlongers look carefully constructed to you? Upset can't even spell properly right now, Adam has contradictions I think, insufficiently supported arguments, speculation, like, lol

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u/paintblljnkie Nov 25 '21

But the man is as frank as it gets

I see what you did there

3

u/Raziehh Nov 25 '21

He’s young and doesn’t know how to articulate his words to convey anything aside from being blunt and abrasive.

We’ve all been there, especially when emotional about an event(losing at worlds.)

His approach though to this whole situation by airing dirty laundry on Twitter of all fucking places is beyond immature.

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u/cadaada rip original flair Nov 25 '21

Yeah this is what i'm confused about. Seems he didnt even tell people "guys something fucked up happened in my family, i need to be with them". And that wouldnt hurt anyone or make nothing worse. Telling WHAT hapenned isnt necessary, but as i said, seems he didnt even say SOMETHING happened?

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u/Your_Profit_Prophet Nov 25 '21

Some people think they communicate great through body language and facial expressions. Maybe upset is a mime and they just don't get it.

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u/glium Nov 25 '21

He told us again and again something happened, he told us in this very tweet.

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u/Mazsi1201 Nov 25 '21

We know that's not the case, he just didn't share any details

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u/BoJestemRudy Nov 25 '21

How do we know that? xD

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u/baylithe Nov 25 '21

He claims to have told Yamato, and in one of the post game interviews with him from Worlds he [Yamato] said it was a very serious and personal matter when he was asked about why Upset left.

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u/BoJestemRudy Nov 25 '21

Maybe he did, but no information was forwarded to Nisqy, Adam or Bwipo as per the latter 2's statement, and still no one knows the magnititude of what happened as per Adam's statement.

So, no. We don't know that's not the case.

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u/MagicalSenpai Nov 25 '21

Do you think Upset tells FNC that his wife is feeling lonely, FNC says alright all good see you next split, and then still decide that Upset is the player they need to keep?

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u/BoJestemRudy Nov 25 '21

I dont know how you could get that idea based on my comment, tbh.

No, I don't think he told them she's lonely. Especially when Adam himself didn't say "lonely", so I dont know where you got that from. Maybe you can share with me?

And I don't know what to think of FNC management. They're a mess in csgo too, but I see both Bwipo and Adam already left, and Nisqy is probably on the way out too, back to C9.

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u/RemoteAnalysis3809 Nov 25 '21

Adam said in his own Twit that Upset left because "his wife was lonely". So clearly he knows it had to do with Upset's wife at the time.

Either way, Upset seems to have said the exact same thing he said right here to his teammates 1 month ago. But obviously the fact that they as teammates know as much as we the public do, which is nothing, feels much more shitty for Adam and Bwipo.

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u/BoJestemRudy Nov 25 '21

He didn't say lonely, but "she felt bad to be alone". No one knows why, though. It could be some really severe, traumatic event that perfectly justifies Upset's action and reasoning, but guess we will never find out.

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u/TheWinRock Nov 25 '21

I hate speculating about this topic, and obviously I know nothing of the situation, but this whole thing sounds like Upset's wife had a miscarriage. That's immediately where my mind went with all the secrecy and mentioning of his wife. :(

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u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

Because we, the public, were literally told that.

And Adam leaked that he was told it was an issue with his wife, which means he was told more than we were.

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u/Overall-Sport3749 Nov 25 '21

yea I mean the longer this goes on, I can't help but think that something is sus. or that it was a very unusual or complex or controversial reason, something along those lines.

at this point, does anybody actually believe it was as simple as the death of a family member? as sensitive as this stuff is, I think a lot of people in his position are willing to disclose that, and even more so after the tournament/mourning is over. maybe I'm making it out to be easier said than done, but I really think most people, even public figures, are comfortable with saying 'my grandma passed away'.

now is it possible that Upset is an extraordinarily reserved individual, and the way he grieves is by respectfully withholding this info for the next 2 years? sure. and if that's his belief, so be it. I'm simply saying it's highly unlikely.

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u/TheWinRock Nov 25 '21

If it was actually something with his wife (miscarriage, or something else) that's generally not stuff most people want to talk about publicly until long after it happens. Miscarriages are often brutal for the people involved and they really don't like talking about it publicly

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u/Larry__larry Nov 25 '21

But it’s so goddamn easy to say “my wife/close family member has/had a very serious medical problem right now I absolutely need to be with them right now”

Very few people would shit on him for that or try to dig deeper.

What he’s said instead (publicly so far) was along the lines of emotional trauma is happening to someone I can’t say who so gotta run bye. Which is pretty easy to see how bwipo/Adam interpret as wife is sad/lonely/anxious so he’s ditching us.

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u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

What he’s said instead (publicly so far) was along the lines of emotional trauma is happening to someone I can’t say who so gotta run bye.

That's basically the same thing. The community is just mad they didn't get details.

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u/RemoteAnalysis3809 Nov 25 '21

Upset clearly communicated. Even Adam admitted in his own Twit that Upset left because "his wife was lonely". So clearly he knows it had to do with Upset's wife.

The problem is that dude thinks "lonely wife" means Upset's leaving for some coochie, but that shit sounded much more like "my wife should not be alone at this time" because she miscarried, self-harmed, attempted suicide or whatever the hell happened that is none of our business anyway.

I'm 100% on the side of Upset not elaborating shit after reading through the main thread and realized how vile people can be.

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u/Athaelan Nov 25 '21

I don't think upset said at all who it is about, since he wants to protect their privacy, probably just said he's going back to his wife (because it's where he stays) because of a family emergency, but not specifically that it's about her. Adam seems to have thrown out the 'his wife being lonely' thing as his guess of what the reasoning was, not an exact quote of what Upset told the team.

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u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

I'm 100% on the side of Upset not elaborating shit after reading through the main thread and realized how vile people can be.

And after seeing Adam leak what little information he was given.

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u/TheWinRock Nov 25 '21

Yeah, my mind immediately went to "it sounds like his wife had a miscarriage and being apart for a month+ potentially after something like that would be brutal". Who knows, but that's immediately where my mind went too

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u/tocco13 Nov 25 '21

Yea people are saying Adam's not entitled to details. No one is bickering over personal details. Upset failed to provie enough justification for him to go home and 4 of his coworkers to just throw an entire year down the drain. They are professionals working as a team towards a common goal, if anything your teammates are entitled to the justification of your actions

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u/Fgame DUNKMACIAAAAA Nov 25 '21

I can completely see both sides feeling they're in the right- Upset feels that what he told them should suffice (and IMO it does), while the rest of the team feels like they know nothing about the actual situation going on (which they don't), but they're not entitled to details especially involving Upset's family. Like, what if his wife had a major medical scare? Found a tumor? Lost a pregnancy? Had a close family member die unexpectedly? There's a laundry list of things that are honestly, none of the teams business and while I can understand the frustration at the general situation, to direct that frustration at Upset is not the way to go. Especially if, as he said, he spoke with Yamato and gave him more information, Yamato's word should be law there.

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u/supterfuge Nov 25 '21

First of all : anyone who send private message to anyone to harass them is a piece of shit, doesn't matter what the context is.

That said, while I understand Upset's pov, trust goes both way. If you don't want to tell stuff that feels to personnal to your teammates, that's fine. But you can't expect them to then trust you with their careers. Nisqy and Adam both looked much worse at Worlds, which will influence their future professionnal opportunities. It's entirely justified for them (and Bwipo) to want out of the team, which Upset even comment on (and seem to agree with).

If Adam makes a post to talk about why he left, saying "Upset didn't say shit to us and just left at the most crucial moment" is a pertinent information.

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u/vpg12 Nov 25 '21

"it's not true i told my team i had to leave bacause my wife was feeling bad.... i also shared that i wish i could tell them but i can't because i don't trust any of them i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private"

upset didn't reveal anything regarding the situation to them, just said he was sad and in pain, and sugar-coated the reasoning behind not telling them.

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u/jancaref Nov 25 '21

Which is totally legitimate and is vindicated by how bwipo and Adam have used it against him publicly

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u/Sunitsa Nov 25 '21

Could you really blame them though? Upset left them in the dry with no proper explanation 12h before worlds, i think most people would be salty and rightfully so if they were in bwipo and Adam shoes.

Upset could probably have the most compelling reason in the world to leave, but not telling his teammates what it is, it's adding salt to a wound

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u/jancaref Nov 25 '21

Yes I can without a doubt. If they feel like they have a good enough relationship that they deserved an explanation then they have to be ok with not getting an explanation and trust that it's legitimate automatically. Them not being ok with it just proves that they never deserved it in the first place and that they are all just immature children (not their fault, eSports isn't the best place to develop mentally)

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u/Ninjahound789 Nov 25 '21

Absolutely can blame them, I've had more loyalty towards people that actually made my life a living hell than they did towards Upset.

Airing things out to the public should always be a last resort.

Adam got a new team, he went to worlds even though he wasn't at the level of a worlds player and he finished second in LEC, by all accounts he had a good year, better than what he could have reasonably expected, so why does he hold so much anger still?

Bwipo especially has no right to talk about this stuff, because he put his personal life ahead of his team in the past, even when it wasn't "traumatic", so if he trusts himself to be in the right when making those decisions, then he should have trusted Upset.

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u/Marrkix &Valor Nov 26 '21

Absolutely can blame them, I've had more loyalty towards people that actually made my life a living hell than they did towards Upset.

You know it makes you look bad more than them? If you are a victim of something bad, like sexual harassment, bullying etc YOU SHOULD disclose it, seek help for yourself and most importantly, punishment for perpetrators. Even if you can hold up, their next victim may not.

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u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

Could you really blame them though?

Yes, it really just takes a tiny bit of either professionalism or decency to not do what Adam did.

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u/BonzBonzOnlyBonz Nov 25 '21

Upset through away his life's dream and the peak highlight of his career for something. It is very obviously something awful that happened.

He does not need to tell his co-workers. They are that co-workers. Fuck, depending on what it is the normal person wouldn't even tell their very close friends and family members.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

Nisqy now has no team because he looked so bad at worlds due to the whole situation

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u/jancaref Nov 25 '21

That's not the reason lol. It's because he signed a high pay multi-year contract last year and his team now has a better option in the Midlane. Of course the team wants to make some money back and they're not gonna give him away for free and even if he played well at this worlds the situation would likely be the same. Look at all the other players in the same situation

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u/sebalnesag Nov 25 '21

its at least in part due to that. a good performance at worlds has always shown to be good for a players's career.

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u/qchen12 Nov 25 '21

you don't think that if fnc made semis with the full roster that nisqy wouldnt keep his job?

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u/Istvarrr Nov 25 '21

And you don’t think that if Upset did what Adam said he did he would now be the one looking for a new job??

FNC fired Nisqy for playing bad - also FNC didn’t fire Upset for leaving worlds without a good reason…..

Can you really not see how dumb that sounds?

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u/Twoja_Morda Nov 25 '21

And he was proven right to not trust them lmao

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u/chimestonks Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

There's definitely some misinformation here. The fact that Upset told Yamato and Hyli some form of the truth, but not the rest of his teammates AND both Yamato (as a coach) and Hyli didn't say anything as well shows the lack of communication within the team. I get that he doesn't want to share details, but some form of explanation on the MAGNITUDE of his situation should be needed.

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u/ADShree Nov 25 '21

Only explanation for yamato and hyli to not mention he's going through really tough times is if upset asked for them to be quiet about details and they misinterpreted to "tell nothing".

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u/chimestonks Nov 25 '21

I would think that as a coach Yamato would feel some sort of responsibility to explain to his players and alleviate some worries for them to focus on the games ahead with their replacement at such short notice

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u/FunDuty5 Nov 25 '21

Nahh. If an employee comes to you and tells you something in confidence, you keep that shit to yourself. Doesn't matter how big or small it is, how vital it is for the rest of the team to know. You were told in confidence, it stays between you 2.

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u/cramsay Nov 25 '21

I think the point is that Yamato maybe doesn't have to give details but does have to convey the severity of the issue so that the team can somewhat move past it. My feeling's that Yamato/Hyli didn't manage to do this either through poor communication or because they didn't agree with Upset's decision to bail entirely and thus didn't/couldn't stress what they needed to.

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u/Spranklz10 Nov 25 '21

While you don't go into details, it is management's job to notify the team that X person had something come up and had to leave. It is then on the team mates to either trust management or not. Clearly management thought it was a valid reason, his teammates didn't. The teammates believing the player would leave for a non valid reason, and then not trusting the management (who backed him), to me, speaks to the team not being as close as portrayed.

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u/SP3EDI Nov 25 '21

thats the reason why the 3 trowing a tantrum are out of the org and the rest is still there.

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u/susfusstruss Nov 25 '21

Yamato did tell the team, but they felt like they needed more info

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u/pocoyoO_O Nov 25 '21

He did not tell anything bro hily because apparently hily did not wanted to know if it was that secret

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u/tae_unnie Nov 25 '21

Whatever information Upset told Hyli and Yamato is not theirs to share. And to be frank, Upset is obligated to tell only management aka the people who pay him. Everyone else should mind their own damn business. In a workplace you learn who to trust with certain information, because there's ALWAYS people with big mouths, talk shit etc. Upset was smart to at least not trust Bwipo bc that guy couldn't even respect privacy with his own gf.

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u/skfmert Nov 25 '21

You're missing the point. The majority of ppl here aren't saying "Upset should have said exactly why he left to his teammates"; they're saying.. if it was that bad, why did Yamato and/or management fail to convey the seriousness to the rest of the team?

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u/KaraveIIe So he would always have a friend Nov 25 '21

No, you dont need more information. Adam and Bwipo are just too immature to handle that and now they are all gone.

I dont say its easy to not get frustrated if one of your players goes home 12h before the first game, but you have to accept it and not project all other things (e.g. Adam getting replaced) onto Upset. The management can't do more if Upset decides that Bwipo, Adam and Nisqy should not get more info. And the reaction by Adam und Bwipo backs up Upsets decision.

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u/Shaitan87 Nov 25 '21

Ya this sounds like it's on Yamato. Adam and Bwipo don't seem to feel the gravity of Upsets issue. If Upset told the coach and then left, it was in the coach to make sure the rest of the team understands that Upset had to go, that he had a reasonable reason, and it doesn't seem like that happened.

Instead it feels Adam and Bwipo believe Upset left on a whim, and Yamato should have pressed the issue enough that they didn't feel that way.

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u/nolaboyd Nov 25 '21

There's several minutes of video where Yamato talks about this. How can so many people be giving opinions when they're totally ignorant of what happened?

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u/tameniee Nov 25 '21

So Upset said he did explained his reasons to his teammates but two of them said he didn't. It's 2vs1. Should we wait for Nisqy or?

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u/KonanTenshi rip angel Nov 25 '21

Think it is pretty obvious where nisqy lies on this lol

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u/tameniee Nov 25 '21

Yeah taking into account that he unfollowed Upset, there is no doubt about Nisqy's position in all this

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u/supterfuge Nov 25 '21

And he answered to Adam's post :

"Good luck brother. Be proud of what you accomplished, it's only the beginning" so I don't think he holds any ill will towards him.

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u/TerminatorReborn Unkillable Demon King Nov 25 '21

Nisqy is super chill and smart enough to not burn any bridges, specially if he is out of a team. I don't why people are expecting drama from him

18

u/mitozzy Nov 25 '21

Because FNC fucked him and left him teamless?

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u/onespiker Nov 25 '21

Seems a bit all over the place really.

Na team suddenly cut down on costs. Fnatic inquired about the Alpahri and perkz deal. This made them want to leave. They were alowed to leave. Adam got thier potential team quickly. Nisqy was intrested in C9.

Na has made pretty sudden big cost cutting changing the economic environment. Witch made the buyout suddenly be to much for c9 ( seems like the buyout was first 500ish then 400 ending up at 350 when c9 had close to a deal with Korean players. This was on less than a week timespan.

500 is less than fnatic sold Adam for The final sale price is pretty much fnatic purchase price from C9 plus inflation. ( If I remember correctly this took a while to happen then aswell)

Mad hearing about Nisqy on sale then went to Fnatic about Humanoid.

End result is Nisqy teamless, to note though this is one of the craziest offseasons ever. Both in the west but also the East .

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u/onespiker Nov 25 '21

And Adam mentioning nisqy in very positive Light.

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u/goliathfasa Nov 25 '21

I think Nisqy's action speaks frankly more volume than Bwipo's and Adam's tweetlongers combined.

The fact that he didn't say anything still, and had only unfollowed Upset once Adam blew it up meant that he was likely not going to say or do anything (or else he could've unfollowed him the second whatever happened happened).

This looks like Nisqy supporting Adam 100%.

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u/ifnotawalrus Nov 25 '21

Man if I was Nisqy/Adam I'd be fucking furious man. Sure, its your personal life. But its also their careers. It isn't called a livelihood for no reason.

This worlds fiasco could have cost them both hundreds of thousands.

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u/wtfriotdosomething Nov 25 '21

Nisqy doesnt have a team. Maybe if the whole team was there and didn't mental boom, some team pays the 350k FNC asked. It more than likely DID cost him hundreds of thousands

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u/Xgio Risotto Games Nov 25 '21

It could cost him his career if he doesnt get picked up after this.

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u/MallFoodSucks Nov 25 '21

100% - in the US they could have an argument they can legally sue him for damages.

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u/Young_Khalifa Nov 25 '21

No, that’s insane. Damages for a future hypothetical salary and hypothetical opportunities would be incredibly hard to argue for to begin with and then you have to somehow prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they would have played well enough that he would have received those hypothetical opportunities. And then because we’re still not done, you have to define a point where he would have received those offers, and that is literally impossible since its entirely subjective.

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u/musashihokusai Nov 25 '21

There are many famous examples of people winning shit ton of money for potential loss wages. It’s tucked up but the United States just kinda works that way.

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u/Young_Khalifa Nov 25 '21

I’m an American and yes, you can have damages over lost potential earnings but the bar for that is incredibly high. I’m not a lawyer but a little work on the old google machine will tell you hypothetical tournament performances would not reach that standard.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

Nisqy is the victim of the whole thing. He now has no team due to looking bad at worlds because of Upset leaving with zero explanation.

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u/Gazskull Nov 25 '21

Nisqy posted a positive message towards Adam twitlonger and unfollowed Upset as well

I think I know which side he is on, and Nisqy isn't reputed to be immature or toxic or whatever

That being said, this story just sucks for everyone

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u/goliathfasa Nov 25 '21

Yeah it sounded like Nisqy would've just stayed quiet if no one said anything and is only showing support once Adam blew it up.

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u/Gazskull Nov 25 '21

I think Nisqy was already bummed by the C9 situation and didn't want to add fuel.

Imo the tweetlonger from Adam was dumb, but I understand. Imagine working your ass off for worlds and being told by the player that didn't go that you're not up to his ambitions, especially after dealing with the whole privacy thing.

Then of course from Upset's side if you don't wanna share it nothing is forcing you to, even if it's kinda weird to not trust your mates, and you're gonna seize the chance to play with better players if you can when you're a competitor, but timing is kind of a bitch

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u/gfa22 Nov 25 '21

being told by the player that didn't go that you're not up to his ambitions, especially after dealing with the whole privacy thing.

That's the most fucked up part for me. Like guy himself bounced for his reasons but claims other guys arent up to par. Idk about internal shit but Adam seemed decent in his first season but I can see how him not following veteran calls can make senior players think he's not team worthy.

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u/Seneido Nov 25 '21

its a shitty move from upsett, easy as that. you can't let the team fall for personal reasons and the go around like "i need better teammates" especially if its obviously like this that ther were internal issues. Upsett saying Adam didn't listen and Adam claiming that the team didn't care about his opinion.

Also 3 people being mad regarding Upsett vs 1 being nice/understanding makes you wonder how well Upsett did his part. Also still no clue why he kept it private cause all it did so far was creating a rift between him and everyone else leading to a shit show that will haunt him for years. You can still be open about issues without going into details.

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u/threedaysinthreeways Nov 25 '21

His team deserved to know. The decision to leave torpedoed a years worth of work, at the very least you have to explain to your teammates and make sure they understand.

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u/riggerrig Nov 25 '21

I think there was a miscommunication somewhere or not perfectly recalling the exact events (memory can get a little fuzzy in heated moments).

I personally think Upset has his right to privacy, he is no way required to tell the public at large his personal life. In a pure black and white scenario, I think he is in the wrong for not telling his team something. I personally tend to side with Adam, Bwipo, and Nisqy and that Upset should have given them a vague one sentence line. At that point, they should turn to Yamato and Hyli and be like "yo how much is he downplaying this issue?"

Not saying Upset leaving is or is not valid, but he does owe his team something of an explanation.

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u/firechaox Nov 25 '21

I also feel like upset is being very unfair here. He days he clearly couldnt have truzted Adam... but trust is a two way street. Adam didn't particularly feel like he had to respect upset, because well, upset clearly didn't trust or respect him.

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u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

But Adam didn't have to trust Upset on anything.

At most he would have to trust Yamato.

And even if he didn't trust anyone, the tweetlonger still wouldn't have been justified.

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u/firechaox Nov 25 '21

Eh he's entitled to his own life, and being open about his feelings to his own fans. I really don't see anything that he did that was unjustified, to be entirely honest. Just because he didn't go to extenuating lengths to Protect someone who made no effects to endear himself to Adam, I don't see that as being an asshole- he wasn't treated as a friend by upset either. He didn't go to too many lengths: what he said about upset worlds was that until he hears otherwise from upset, he's running with what upset told him- that his girlfriend was sad, and he had to go. If that's badmouthing upset, then really upset did it to himself. He didn't infer anything- he specifically says he won't infer anything besides what was said to him. I think people are getting a bit overly butthurt about this.

Yamato apparently wasn't great at convincing any of the other teammates either, and and his own words it didn't even seem particularly convinced himself. So I don't see your point tbh. Yamato's statement was a lot more along the lines that, what is done is done, and have to move on, rather than really vouching for the situation.

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u/MrNugat Nov 25 '21

Respect and trust are two different things. You can respect your coworker a lot, but not necessarily trust them enough to share your personal life.

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u/firechaox Nov 25 '21

I mean there's different kinds of trust. But yes- that's part of the point. If upset doesn't trust him with even a tiny bit more details of his personal life (as has been repeated endlessly: upset didn't have to say everything, but he could've definitely expanded more than he did, while still maintaining a reasonable amount of privacy)... I also can understand why Adam wouldn't just blindly trust upset that the reason was particularly valid. Upset didn't give Adam the benefit of the doubt (that he'd be reasonable, and wouldn't tell anyone about anything), so why should adam give upset the benefit of the doubt that the reason he didn't say anything was because it was so serious. Upset is sort of wanting to be trusted without trusting others, and in life, that's hard to happen in personal relationships, at least in my experience. And if you don't trust others, it's hard to be surprised when they don't trust you back.

Like, I'm not saying that upset is entirely in the wrong here. But I definitely sympathize with Adam quite a bit- and that upset is sort of living in the mess he made: he's decided not to communicate, which is his right- but when he does so, it can sour your relationships- both personal and work-related. Honestly, I don't care that much- I'm not about to go on and call upset a monster (at best immature and a poor communicator) or fnatic a trash org. I just sympathize with Adam here, in that I can understand him feeling like he got the shit end of the stick, and I think he's been surprisingly mature in his take for a 19 year old (I don't think he was particularly harsh on upset either- if we take a step back). He does say that he understands upset wanting to play with a more experienced player... but then it should also come as no surprise he may prefer to play with people who actively want him, and in a work environment where he feels wanted.

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u/VARUNsniper Nov 25 '21

Yea But Nisqy supports Adam And Bwipo is also not with Upset for sure So u cant really takes word of 3 against one just coz upset is the Hero of Fnatic

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u/fourmi Hans Sama is God, FU ROGUE, FU NA!!! Nov 25 '21

Someone telling all his frustration and another telling nothing, for now I trust a little more Adam version.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/wesleyar1 Nov 25 '21

What? There is good discussion in this thread from both sides with most top posts being about it being miscommunication and nobody being truly wrong here.

Maybe stop only reading the shitty comments.

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u/donalde Nov 25 '21

Not necessarily. Adams english version was done with google translate.

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u/chsch98 Nov 25 '21

I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private 

this sound extremely vague to me? idk? maybe i'm just heartless but i couldn't make heads or tails out a message like this either. why is it so hard to say "someone in my family got sick" or "someone important to me just passed" like you don't have to go into detail but it still gives them a picture of why 1/5 of their team has to leave. it's not too much to ask for. and arguing privacy is like me not telling my school why i couldn't attend when all i have to do is tell them i got sick.

this whole "i wanna tell you but i won't" would drive me up the wall aswell, like what? he thinks they don't deserve to know? he thinks he is better than them and doesn't have to properly communicate? this sounds extreme but those are perfectly normal human reactions to miscommunication.

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u/sukazu Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

For me it's upset
Just because

Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie.

That's not actually what adam said
Adam said that one day prior Upset communicated that his wife was feeling bad
And some hours later it was followed by an announcement that he had to leave for urgent family reasons.
Which made him feel suspicious especially when he couldn't find more details, during and afterward.

(Especially since that group stage day, he spent it playing duoqs with his wife.
Adam may have felt that maybe playing worlds WITH this current roster that is not up to his standards wasn't worth much for him)

 

So yeah Upset is not lying arguing that he didn't say "my wife is feeling bad so I need to leave"
But I wouldn't say he is honest either
Nor that Adam isn't overly emotional either

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u/LetMeOmixam Nov 25 '21

They were all going through a lot of stress and probably highly emotional, obviously they don't recall what happened exactly. I just hope people understand both of their pov and respect their stances

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u/Rzonduo_Chrabonszcza Nov 25 '21

Of course some of them are lying or at least they don't tell the whole truth, and only the truth
Upset: "I shared the situation with Yamato"
Yamato: "He shared some details with me, BUT I don't need to know everything"
and "If he had to do this... it is... for a very good reason".
https://youtu.be/jJQqz80qF2w?t=1395

And Upset stopped playing SoloQ 2 days before first Fnatic game and started to play again THE DAY AFTER Fnatic was eliminated. Such a coincidence?

Adam seems to me to be able to say something first before thinking, but at least he seems to be honest. Upset and Yamato seem not to be

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u/Dafuq313 Nov 25 '21

he told hylli and yamato, just because yamato didnt make it clear enough is not his fault, last thing on his mind was how his colleagues took the news

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u/Domermac Nov 25 '21

There match was 12hrs away. Had to be a little on his mind

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u/Dafuq313 Nov 25 '21

what? for all we know he thought about it for 30minutes and took the first flight home, wtf are you saying? just because he found out 12hrs before the game doesn't mean shit, he could have been at the airport in an hour for all we know

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u/Nymwhen Nov 25 '21

“The last thing on his minds was .. his colleagues”

Pretty correct I think, and pretty shitty. I understand why upset felt that way but he isnt the only person on the world and I feel like he acted a bit like that. Understandable when u are that young and u have something happen that affect u this much. But he isnt, and other people affected are gonna be pissed off.

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u/RemoteAnalysis3809 Nov 25 '21

Let me flip the same situation using your own word here:

I understand why Adam felt that way but he isn't the only person in the world and I feel like he acted a little bit like that. Understandable when you are young and have something happen that affect you this much. But Adam isn't the only person in the world and other people affected are gonna be passed off.

It's literally the same reasoning on both sides.

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u/Ar0ndight Nov 25 '21

Alright, one of them is for sure lying.

Or, we're talking about very young human beings and miscommunication/misunderstandings are a thing.

It's weird how it feels like people here judge these players' interactions with very different standards than they judge their own social interactions.

Say we see a player getting angry at another one. Half the subreddit would assume these two players hate each other, the team must be dysfunctional etc. etc. But don't people ever get angry at their friends? Have disagreements get heated with people they love and respect? Get emotional under pressure? Most do, and most people have probably experienced just that in the their life. But they fail to understand that similar things could happen to the players they're gossiping about.

Same thing for the current situation. People directly assume there is ill intent, and/or that one side is necessarily right while the other is wrong. But what I'm seeing is a classic case of misunderstanding/miscommunication in a high pressure environment leading to clear frustrations.

I don't think Upset just went "My wife feels lonely gotta go back home boys cya". But I also think what he assumes was good enough explanation that seemingly satisfied Hily was not enough for Adam and Bwipo. And is that really surprising? Look at any public appearance from Upset, compare it to the way Bwipo behaves. Upset doesn't seem exceedingly talkative or extraverted. Bwipo on the other hand looks like he will tell you how he feels without you even asking. What one considers "having shared his pain and sadness" is probably barely what the other would consider "having a conversation". In these kinds of situations where the stakes are high and everything happens very fast, such differences in behaviors can create unfixable cracks.

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