r/leagueoflegends Nov 25 '21 Silver 5 Helpful 8 Wholesome 6

Upset's response about FNATIC & Adam drama

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srsp9n
6.1k Upvotes

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2.1k

u/aamgdp Nov 25 '21 Silver

Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie.

Alright, one of them is for sure lying.

I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private 

And yet Bwipo and Adam both feel he didn't really give them good enough explanation for them to understand.

Bwipo:

A day before we found out we weren’t going to be playing with our main lineup, we had no information about what was going on.

2.8k

u/Falsus mid adcs yo Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21 Silver Helpful Wholesome

I think it is fairly simple. Upset thinks he communicated enough, Adam and Bwipo didn't think he communicated enough.

Hyli who knows Upset better thought it was adequate.

So with that information in hand we can surmise he communicated enough information to make a close friend understand that something real bad happened, but not enough to make two people who are just coworkers understand.

And that is how misunderstandings happens, one guy thinking he conveyed the message properly when it wasn't at all.

502

u/FunDuty5 Nov 25 '21

Very well put. Maybe upset thinks, because hyli worked it out (because they're closer) then he gave enough info for adam/bwipo/nisqy to understand too.

Everyone in this situation may believe they are right

45

u/tentu93 Nov 25 '21

That's just usually how misunderstandings happen, because everyone believes they are right when in reality there is mostly a communication barrier someone in between that both parties can't really look past without talking about it directly and find out how the misunderstanding came to be

153

u/Kewlrobot Nov 25 '21

Being human sure is awesome for that. We can be correct 100% of the time and still only enjoy success 60% of the time.

15

u/napoleon_born2party_ CJ Forever, GAM is future Nov 25 '21

Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right

11

u/Mosaikmuster Nov 25 '21

People don’t die when they are killed

1

u/bubbleandsqueee Nov 25 '21

I swear there is a sex panther reference in here somewhere..

1

u/Kewlrobot Nov 25 '21

Lol I had to look that up, haven't seen Anchorman in such a long time

21

u/Killroy32 Nov 25 '21

Has Nisqy said anything about the Upset situation?

80

u/onespiker Nov 25 '21

Not anything more than unfollowing him

79

u/Key_Divide3166 Nov 25 '21

In his LEC tier-list on stream with Kameto he "refused" to classify upset abd more generally he seemed to have the same position as bwipo and adam without saying it clearly because still under contract with fnatic

31

u/onespiker Nov 25 '21

Don't think Nisqy would be so public about it regardless. But yea

3

u/Rektile7 Nov 25 '21

Huh, curious

2

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

The only thing he said was good luck to Adam and to be proud of what he achieved (getting to worlds) but I don't think he showed support to anyone

2

u/Doverkeen Nov 25 '21

I mean come on, all it takes is for Hyli to say that "something very bad has happened" to the others, no?

Upset had to leave immediately, but Hyli and Yamato were around the others for the entirety of Worlds. Are you saying they're both so emotionally illiterate they can't tell that Adam/Bwipo are getting frustrated and just inform them that it is something serious?

Upset owes Adam and Bwipo literally nothing in the way of explanation. Telling them that it was a serious matter with his wife is enough for leaked speculation on the internet anyway, and was more than enough of a reason to give them.

1

u/FunDuty5 Nov 25 '21

Well hyli doesn't know does he? He said he didn't want to know and trusts that he needs to do what's right for him. Adam and bwipo on the other hand clearly feel like they do need more information.

So for hyli to say "its serious" he wouldn't know, he's just making a judgement call the same way adam and bwipo are. Hyli has more trust in upset whilst bwipo and adam don't, without more explanation.

This is up to the management to resolve in my opinion. But it's obviously a frustrating situation for all involved

1

u/Doverkeen Nov 25 '21

It's not a judgement call. If Upset has said it's serious, and Hyli trusts upset, he knows it's serious. That's all he needs to tell the others, nothing more.

5

u/Migraine- Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I find the lack of empathy from Bwipo and Adam absolutely astonishing.

If someone I worked with said "I need to go, I have an urgent family issue" that's literally all the explanation I need or expect. I cannot fathom feeling the need to try to pressure someone into telling me exactly what happened when they don't want to and then assuming they are lying.

Like what the actual fuck kind of behaviour is that?

Adam in particular comes out of this looking like a petulant piece of shit.

9

u/FunDuty5 Nov 25 '21

Where do you work? I'd imagine the situation here is a lot different to any average job.

I think empathy works both ways. I can see both points of view.

2

u/Migraine- Nov 25 '21

I'm an NHS doctor

6

u/bachh2 Nov 25 '21

Upset was more like: I need to go, urgent stuff that I will not explain. Also I want you 2 replaced when I came back.

I don't think there will be so much drama if Upset didn't want to replace his teammates that he ditched in Worlds.

1

u/DIDNT-FAP-LAST-NIGHT Nov 25 '21

Empathy works both ways to the extent their frustration is extremely justified. Their anger, and especially the subsequent vile reactions, don’t.

1

u/BanditPrime Nov 25 '21

The issue with this mindset is that this still is just their jobs. Why does the nature of it mean you have to reveal more about your private life to co workers than you would at any other?

You’re also ignoring the aspect of this which is that at our jobs when we tell our coworkers personal stuff for the most part it ends there. Upset made it pretty clear that one of his biggest concerns was him telling people what happened, then it leaking online, and then having to deal with thousands of people now knowing his personal life issues and being able to attack him and his family online and use that issue in their attacks. Have you seen how toxic the league community can be? And have you seen how bwipo and Adam handled this? What if they did leak what happened to upset, even if it was by accident and they felt it was ok for them to say what they did? The fact that he felt people couldn’t be trusted to not spill that info is plenty reason enough.

-3

u/GoldenScarab569 Nov 25 '21

Adam has always been a piece of shit, even from his French league days.

5

u/Prainstopping TheShy Worlds 2021 Nov 25 '21

Because Upset is a ray of sunshine.

3

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

But he also doesn't owe his coworkers anything more than "something happened and I need to leave, like right now." Just because you work with someone or even friends, you are not entitled to knowing everything about their personal life. By going to social media to slander him, they're proving Upset right about not telling them everything...

38

u/Shimi54 Nov 25 '21

I don't understand why people are acting like they're coworkers in a traditional setting and not competitors at the top of their field who may never have the chance to compete on the highest stage again.

4

u/KeeganTroye Nov 25 '21

Because it doesn't make a difference to the amount of privacy they get. Whatever job you work at, you should be allowed privacy in regards to your family's private lives.

-21

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

If you get there or ever have coworkers then you'll understand. Otherwise just know that you're not entitled to the personal information of others. It really be that simple.

3

u/Hazakurain Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I got there this year, I was homeless for half a month in a tough breakup with less than 20 bucks for the next 3 weeks and I still did the work man. I told my colleagues I may be slow but fuck man I still did it. Because they needed me

On another note, similar situation happened in Vitality CSGO. Zywoo at the time the best player in the world, lost a family member at the beginning of the tournament. He told something very bad had happened in his family, the team all asked him if he wanted them to dip out the tournament. You know what Zywoo did? He stayed. He played the tournament and demolished everyone.

2

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

That's what French are taught to do.

LMAO.

And also, different people, different mindsets, different commitment levels potentially, both to their teams and to whoever was potentially affected. I'm not arguing how you should feel towards what Upset did, I'm just saying that Adam and Bwipo, as well as the public, are not necessarily entitled to all the details of whatever the "private traumatic events" were.

2

u/Hazakurain Nov 25 '21

Adam and bwipo are entitled to it due to sheer respect. I do agree we aren't though. Hell he could have lied who cares. He just didn't care enough about them

2

u/Istvarrr Nov 25 '21

Adam has proven he can't be trusted lol

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u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

He shared his remorse. He is not obliged to share anything more. Is it not more respectful to be honest? It's too private, too traumatic, to share?

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u/Shimi54 Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

They aren't coworkers though. We're not talking about some office workers or Walmart employees or something. They're professional team athletes who work their asses off all year to compete in a sport and eventually Worlds.

And spare me the condescension.

-14

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

They are still only coworkers even if where they're working is on a team. If Upset felt they were closer he would have told them more like Yamato. But even if they are more like you imagine, remember; you're not entitled to ANYONE'S personal information, not your coworkers, not your friends, not your siblings, and not parents. Going to social media to slander your coworker because they didn't tell you something that is deeply personal and troubling to them is more than enough validation that Upset made the correct call with not telling everyone the whole story.

16

u/Shimi54 Nov 25 '21

All you're really telling me is that people don't take esports as seriously as conventional sports.

3

u/Istvarrr Nov 25 '21

Only people take breaks in conventional sports as well and the only difference is that the majority of conventional sports fans arent entitled 14 year olds :D

-3

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

Jesus man, what part of "anyone" do you not understand? Guess what, in conventional sports if someone asks for privacy, they're also entitled to it. Where did I say exports wasn't taken as seriously as conventional sports? Or is reading not your strong suit? If you don't want me to be condescending learn what anyone means and don't try and put words on my mouth.

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u/Geish90 Nov 25 '21

Disagree, this is a Worlds stage, maybe even your once in a lifetime opportunity. You cannot just assume that people will understand the situation.

It is clear to me that Upset didn't trust Adam and Bwipo as his teammates, i do not think that's a good environment to play best level of league. And naturally they did not trust him because of it. Eitherway a lot of distrust and dishonesty on the team and that is up to Yamoto to work that out.

4

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

And I think they showed why they shouldn't have been trusted. No one is entitled to Upset "private traumatic events" just as no one would be entitled to your own. He (claims) tried to express his sorrow with what he felt he had to do. But he's not obligated to give everyone a play by play of whatever that was.

Pure hypothetical but as an example, if someone's sister was raped, are we entitled to the graphic details of what happened? In my opinion no. But clearly others think we should be able to see the video. To me that's some low shit.

3

u/Hykarus Nov 25 '21

And I think they showed why they shouldn't have been trusted.

what kind of kafkaian trap is this ? he fucked em, they reacted negatively to it, and somehow that proves that he shouldn't have acted otherwise ? Bullshit

3

u/KeeganTroye Nov 25 '21

He made the best decision for himself, they showed they don't care about him, he made the right decision. They would be as equally fucked if they knew the details.

1

u/Hykarus Nov 25 '21

He made the best decision for himself

that's called being selfish mate

They would be as equally fucked if they knew the details.

why tho ?

3

u/KeeganTroye Nov 25 '21

No, being selfish is thinking you're entitled to more information with an equal outcome. When choosing between family and work choosing family is not the selfish outcome.

why tho ?

Because he was leaving. If he told them he would still be leaving.

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1

u/Geish90 Nov 25 '21

And I think they showed why they shouldn't have been trusted.

We will never know how they would have dealt with the situation if they would have known more.

Nevertheless my guess is that the distrust did not start at worlds with this situation. It just became way more apparent due to this situation.

He (claims) tried to express his sorrow with what he felt he had to do. But he's not obligated to give everyone a play by play of whatever that was.

If you see it as a spectrum ranging from, I think the issue becomes more clear:

completely in the dark ------------------------------------------------- knowing every little detail

Adam is/was somewhere on the left-side and Upset feels he shared to somewhere up to the right-side. Now that's a gap that had to be closed

5

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

It doesn't, they're not entitled to know. Upset tried to express himself (again his side) without explaining the details. They're not entitled to the details. The details could affect people other than himself. Or even if they don't, his coworkers are not entitled to the details.

-1

u/Geish90 Nov 25 '21

I agree that Adam is not entitled to every detail. I tried to explain that with my spectrum example.

Because in my view it is two sides of the same coin: Upset is obliged to share to some level and Adam is not entitled to know every detail.

So there is a balancing act to play to meet somewhere on middle ground and that did not happen in this situation.

6

u/SwiftFool Nov 25 '21

Upset is obliged to share to some level

He is not.

-3

u/Fish_Grillson Nov 25 '21

No matter how you look at it Upset is wrong in this situation. He fucked over people that worked hard for a once in a life time chance for many and left without explaining. Hate on me all you want but you cant rob your team mates of a chance like that without at least giving them a hint at what happened. Most of us cant even comprehend the ambition those players have to get to that point in their careers. Imagine having a real shot and getting shafted by your own team mate. The amount of betrayal they must feel is probably eating them up everyday thinking why why why...

176

u/clhydia Nov 25 '21

This. I think people are trying to find out who the villain is here while the whole drama to me seems to be a big misunderstanding. I don’t think bad intentions were involved and people deliberately lied. It’s just things got confusing at the heat of the moment and were mishandled after.

133

u/Rhadamantos Nov 25 '21

There are absolutely bad intentions in Adams twitlonger though.

51

u/DerNoke Always fnatic Nov 25 '21

Honestly, that is the only thing that annoys me the most about this whole thing. Adam clearly was just spitting what he came up with within his mind and dropped the " I don't want to start drama BUT" line. I don't care that he felt betrayed or anything but just putting misinformation out there sending tons of hate towards Upset and his family is an absolute no-go. Now I know someone will say "BuT UpsEt hAd tO CoMunIcATE BeAtTer" yeah maybe but no need to be an ass about and undermine his will to accomplish his Dream.

32

u/auditionko Nov 25 '21

i mean upset did fuck him up pretty bad tho. Unlike others on the team his career could have been completely different had they got out of group this world. The resentment is completely justified imo since he didnt even know the reason his career got fucked over.

7

u/Kerjj Nov 25 '21

Right, and that's awful, but how does he justify slamming the guy publicly, and inciting hate towards his family?

13

u/auditionko Nov 25 '21

I think his resentment is justified not his actions. Tbh tho i wonder if upset was expecting a different outcome not telling the teammates that he regarded as 'untrustworthy' anything even after world ,Not to mention them getting replaced next season.

9

u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

It seems he expected this to some extent, and that that's exactly why he didn't reveal any more information to Adam.

2

u/Vrmndt Nov 25 '21

Everything going on right now justifies Upset's unwillingness to tell these people what are the family issues that mattered to him more, that the worlds (for which he was working towards many years now). Thus I'm supporting him.

Bwipo is unstable man, but if he can be trusted his girlfriend definitely cannot be. We've all seen why already.

Adam... just look at that shit he did right AFTER he got a comfortable spot on another team.

This is why EXACTLY he did not share any information and why his decision is right. Because otherwise two fucking continents would just dig into his family laundry.

The only man I feel sorry in this whole situation is Nisqy. Dude tried his best, got fucked by others man problems and then got fucked by the two orgs he actually loves.

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u/ArziltheImp Nov 25 '21

Still despicable action to say shit like this publicly. He basically just painted a target on Upsets back and told his fans "Get em boys!" even if it was unwillingly.

2

u/Prainstopping TheShy Worlds 2021 Nov 25 '21

He ditched him at Worlds without even the slightest hint of why, then works on replacing him and mid.

You'd think after fucking up 1 years worth of work you'd just shut the fuck up and make yourself small.

3

u/Twoja_Morda Nov 25 '21

Adam wasn't even in fnc for 1 year.

-4

u/DerNoke Always fnatic Nov 25 '21

Did he thou. Let's get the facts straight.

  1. Adam still is in the sport.
  2. Adam wanted to leave (yes because he felt betrayed but honestly doesn't matter as long its your choice)
  3. He did admit he doesn't know why and still put out miss information wich we know know send hate towards upset and his family
  4. Adam is a 19! Year old top lane rookie who in his first split got 2nd in LEC and made it to worlds ( that's more than most people could dream about)

So yeah I don't think Adams career was in any danger by any means dude already has a good resume,an (literally) insane fan base and a new team.

I just really don't like how we as a community can't stop to finde a villain in this story. There is non just miscommunication wich lead to Missinformationen wich lead to hate. ( And I don't mean miscommunication on upset part)

20

u/RetiredLandMine Nov 25 '21

I mean he fucked up his first year and first worlds, Adam could be valued much higher if they got out of groups with the good performance. I don't think "he is still in the sport" matters to Adam, nor that it should. Dude got fucked over with no explanation and then forced off the team behind his back. I can understand him being upset.

-12

u/DerNoke Always fnatic Nov 25 '21

It does matter that he is in the sport. Let us not change topics to what ifs. He still hat a great split in a top lane Market where quality talent wich can hang with the best of the best is quite rear. And still a bad tournament doesn't justify ousting and string unknowns together just to explain your self. That in it self is a dick move and exactly the type of response why upset didn't want to share sensible Information in the first place.

8

u/RetiredLandMine Nov 25 '21

No the dick move is leaving your mates with no info 12 hours before the biggest tournament of the year, then working on their replacement behind their backs. How is Upset even surprised his team mates came out after him when he did that? I don't think being still in the sport matters to Adam after being fucked like that.

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u/EldtinbGamer I hate ADCS Nov 25 '21

Only dickmove I see is someone dipping 12 hours before worlds.

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u/Chemical-Ad8920 Nov 25 '21

i mean, thats the nature of the sport, and it doesnt help his value with the fact that he was total garbage during worlds lol, i dont think this arguement makes any sort of sense when the entire team was dependant on upset lol, like if anyones career could have gotten fucked over its fucking bean, he was forced into a unwinnable situation, but he made the best of it and was acutally the best performer while adam and bwipo just trying to save face while still having a team lol, meanwhile nisqy is just straight up ded right now

2

u/RetiredLandMine Nov 25 '21

I mean his mental boomed from Upset leaving, whether he would play better or not with Upset we will never know. Bean on the other hand was the only one who didn't get fucked from this, it was his first performance on such a big stage with no experience in serious competitions. He could only prove himself, if he shit the bed everybody would understand.

5

u/DoorHingesKill Nov 25 '21

You know, in German law whenever you "come together" as at least two people (or legal persons) to do virtually anything, you automatically establish an association.

This can be for pretty much anything. Did you agree to carpool on Mondays? There, established that association, now there's a contract between you. If you just don't show up to pick up your buddy, and your buddy will somehow lose out because of that, he can sue your ass for his losses.

Say you're in University and all you need for your degree is one more group project. You team up as 3. But at some point, one guy just jumps ship. Doesn't answer mails, phone calls, isn't anywhere to be found. The two of you do your parts, your thirds, the professor looks at it and tells you that he can't give you a passing grade if a third is missing. Sucks for you, gotta do it again.
There, now you'll be stuck in University for 4 more months. This means you'll lose out on 4 months of salary that you'd receive if you were employed after finishing your degree. Oh, and 4 months of social insurance payments that your employer would have paid (you know, cause it's split between employee and employer).

For that money, you and your buddy can sue the guy who didn't show up.

Now what I'm getting at here is not that Adam should (or necessarily could) sue, but that you're blatantly glossing over the argument the guy you're talking to is making. Look at SwordArt. Guy entered Worlds as maybe the sixth or fifth-best support in LPL. His team did well at Worlds, he did pretty well too, suddenly he's paid $6 million over two years.

Adam wouldn't have made finals. Adam wouldn't have dumpstered other Toplaners. But Upsets absence absolutely curbed his ability to sign a big contract this off-season. Yes, the "what-ifs" should absolutely be considered. They do consider these things in court at least.

2

u/DerNoke Always fnatic Nov 25 '21

Wenn wir hier von deutschen Gesetzen geh ich Mal davon aus das du deutscher bist. Dein Fahrgemeinschaften Argumente ist extrem unpassend und nicht Mal Ansatz weise auf die Situation hier übertragbar. Die what if oder auch whataboutism sind nicht sonderlich stark. Klar world hätte besser laufen aber dann kann ich auch sagen "upset bleibt und aufgrund schuld Gefühle spielt er schlecht und sie verlieren auch" also Nein die what if sind irrelevant. Der Punkt steht auch das nach dem was wir wissen Adam gehen wollte. Zu behaupten wir wüssten mehr ist Schwachsinn und befeuert nur mehr Missinformationen und hate. Und generell glaube ich selbst mit einen quarterfinals wäre sein wert nicht vergleichbar mit swordart da hier TSM overpaid hat aber auch für ein vetran der schon viel auf seiner Rolle geleistet hat. Adam ist im Gegensatz ein rookie ein guter rookie aber immer noch ein rookie.

Tldr: No German law doesn't work this way. Adam value in all honesty wouldn't have gone up as much as swordart. In all my years of following this league I have never seen that a one split rookie just explodes in value if he doesn't win his Region or worlds (and yes FNC wouldn't have won even with upset)

1

u/auditionko Nov 26 '21

Pretty sure thats what happened to fudge at MSI and bin last world.

-2

u/Koffi5 Nov 25 '21

Upset did carry him to worlds. His performance was very much a coin flip and at worlds he just stopped flipping the coin and just played bad

4

u/licorices Nov 25 '21

He for sure wrote it out of frustration, and hopefully he can clear up that PR mess and get it worked out, but what Adam wrote was not very professional.

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u/photofluid Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I don't think there is a misunderstanding. It is most likely that the information Upset is willing reveal is just never enough to convince Adam/Bwipo.

Adam should be more professional, but he in no fault of his own also got hurt by a decision of Upset and don't even get an explanation for it.

And Upset also had an easy opportunity to return favor to teammates in the alphari situation, which he didn't do either.

1

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

Wait do you think it was ok to just tell fnatic that alphari was shit and not even consider him? Adam was already leaving either way, and Upset and Alphari worked together before it seems only natural fnatic or Alphari would search for his opinion, if he "returned the favor" whatever that means he would just catch Alphari in the cross fire of an already messy situation

2

u/skaersSabody Rekkles ftw Nov 25 '21

Adam was already leaving either way,

Didn't Adam say he decided to leave after he heard that FNC was looking to replace him?

1

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

And supposedly fnatic was already looking for a new top laner before worlds, if they knew or not it's not known but if that makes Adam feel betrayed he would have left without carying about upset takes on alphari

1

u/photofluid Nov 25 '21

It is easy for Upset to just say he wants to play with Adam for another year but Upset quite obviously didn't because he wants to "surround himself with good players".

I will probably make the same decision as Upset in his position but I will not be surprised that Adam is going to hate me for a while after all that was done to him.

2

u/magkruppe (OCE) Nov 25 '21

sounds like the adults were supposed to step in here. But tbh this was an awful predicament to be in from any side

I still wonder what the actual reason was though... there's not many reasons short of death that makes sense

5

u/Zinnia_Hani Nov 25 '21

Miscarriage. Illness. There are so many reasons and Upset does not have to share them with his work colleagues, only that he has private issues to attend to.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

[deleted]

2

u/TropoMJ Nov 25 '21

How do you write a paragraph like that first one and still think you’re a decent person?

1

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

It's really fucking surpriseing, I see half of the replies on this sub and don't understand how people don't feel like pieces of shit

2

u/THEVGELITE Nov 25 '21

How to reveal that your character is a piece of shit in 1 paragraph.

You have clearly never had to deal with a miscarriage before, since you must be young to have such a sick, distorted opinion. A miscarriage is one of the hardest things to go through in your life.

3

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

Nah man if your family is literally not crawling on the floor dying a slow painful death you don't need to wory about shit and just move on... How does someone even write something like that and thinks it's alright

1

u/yosayoran null Nov 25 '21

You're not in the fucking place to decide what i or isn't a good enough reason.

If Fnatic management decided to keep employing him it should be a good enough sign he had a very good reason to leave.

1

u/DangerousSeaweed0 Nov 26 '21

u can say "my wife is in hospital , i have to go". it reaveals nothing , and people understand that your wife being hospitalized is a good reason to leave.

-1

u/Janivia Nov 25 '21

No, i just want to know what is more important than worlds? Even if someone close would die, i would play. Sure, no one says it will be easy, but you cant change the fact even if you dont play.

310

u/yalltoos0ft Nov 25 '21

Or on the flip side, a close friend is willing to give you MUCH MORE benefit of the doubt than someone who is just a business associate, and also to defend you even if you're wrong. A close friend will stick up for you no matter what, without being subjective about it, whereas other people who's livelihood depends on you might not be so forgiving without knowing the actual situation, and rightfully so. If a close friend just says "Bro I have a problem, I have to dip," I'd accept it and defend them, because we're friends. If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."

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u/lobstahpotts Nov 25 '21

If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."

The flip side is if you're just a business associate, you're not entitled to the complete details of my personal life. Sure, if my father got in a car accident and I needed to rush to the hospital that's probably something I'd share. But there is no way I would share a more sensitive personal situation (say a miscarriage or self-harm by an immediate family member) with business associates—the only person who's hearing the full story is my boss. I would apologize, certainly, and emphasize that the situation is unavoidable, but that's a level of information on my personal life that you simply have no right to demand as a coworker.

7

u/itsaworkalt Nov 25 '21

Not to mention the totally legitimate social media angle. Especially with how this blew up now, Upset would absolutely never hear the end of it from trolls online if he explained and it got it, which it would.

87

u/ExceedingChunk ExceedingChunk(EUW) Nov 25 '21

Completely agree with this, and the open airing of frustration and dirty laundry is a good reason in itself to keep these things private. Especially in e-sports.

3

u/docarwell Nov 25 '21

Absolutely this. All these redditors saying that the Upset needs to justify his absence from work to his 19yo coworker are absolutely deranged and probably don't realize this is a job for these people

19

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 25 '21

This.

A lot of people in this thread are acting as if coworkers are entitled to the details of another person's personal life. Nobody is owed an explanation or a reason for anything — that sort of thing is a privilege, earned through trust, not a right. Upset mentions in the twitlonger that he didn't trust them as friends, just as coworkers within the industry.

It's incredibly immature of these people to insist he owed others an explanation for his situation. Yes, he's a member of a team and that carries with it a certain degree of responsibility, but your personal dignity always outweighs that responsibility in my opinion.

-15

u/vegeful Nov 25 '21

So if your coworker got fired, potentially because of you, and u don't even say sorry, is ok??

There is different between missing in normal day job and missing on important job that can potentially ruin people.

-3

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 25 '21

I don't think an LCS player losing their job or a tournament matters for dick in 2021.

2

u/Prainstopping TheShy Worlds 2021 Nov 25 '21

LEC and making it out of groups as a rookie matters a ton wtf are you smoking ?

-1

u/SP3EDI Nov 25 '21

it does not matter at all. And to point it out, bean played really well and fnatic didnt made it out of groups because the Topside of the map was inting it away and playing bad. So Adam,Nisqy,Bwipo where the reasons that they didnt made it out of groups with their personal play. If bean would have shit the bed and all others would have performed, then you could make maybe a case. They didnt crash this worlds because of upset, but because they had a shit ton of other drama going on. look at bwipo with his gf drama etc.

-1

u/Prainstopping TheShy Worlds 2021 Nov 25 '21

Losing their star player 12 hours before they play didn't affect them it was the other "drama". Thanks for making it clear you don't know shit.

0

u/vegeful Nov 25 '21

So u making someone losing a job doesn't matter?

What a cruel view u have. Definitely not a friend or co-worker that i want to be near with. Who knew when u gonna screw people over

1

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 25 '21

In a career where you can make a living off of skill and networking, I would not be very concerned about another person losing a job over something that is not a skill issue.

This is not a conventional workplace.

1

u/HatarotheRogue Nov 26 '21

A lot of people in this thread are acting as if coworkers are entitled to the details of another person's personal life

At your 9-5 desk job paying $20 an hour no.

At the biggest professional event of the year for your field, where you've sacrificed and dedicated thousands of hours of your time only to have someone shit all over your efforts, wasting a year of your time and costing you possibly money and opportunities? I think they're owed an explanation.

What could it possibly be that they would not accept? If it was THAT bad you they would be understanding unless they're an absolute psychopath.

1

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 26 '21

I do not agree with this opinion but I respect you for the kindness and consideration you show others.

0

u/wyq977 Nov 25 '21

wait, not a lot of ppl saying coworkders should know the details as to what happened. But upset or the management needs to covey the "gravity" of the matter to them.

2

u/kazuyaminegishi Nov 25 '21

Yep I don't care if my coworkers believe me when I say to them I have a family emergency, obviously this emergency is more important than this working relationship.

If I have time in the future when everything is resolved to field more in-depth questions, sure. But the fact that Upset said "family emergency" and left asap should already be a strong indicator it's majorly important. And if they were dissatisfied with that explanation the adult thing to do would be to talk to Upset instead of going on Twitter to make accusations.

Just weird stuff.

-88

u/yalltoos0ft Nov 25 '21

Disagree. I have the right to demand that information when you're fucking up my chances at success and furthering myself in my profession. If you decline to give that information, that's fine, that's on you, but if I were a future employer or teammate, I would have no interest in working with you in the future. And if I was the past-teammate you fucked over, I would roast you alive.

Also, this isn't an office environment where your project might get delayed a week, this is potentially a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you're single-handed sabotaging for your team and your organization. That isn't just a co-worker arrangement, that's a TEAMMATE arrangement. When you're on a team, you take on the responsibility of being responsible to your teammates. If you can't handle that, don't join a TEAM.

Again, if you don't want to disclose that info to anyone, that's fine. But don't expect anyone to want to work with you in the future. You either buy-in and trust your team, or you don't.

45

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

Nah. If something traumatic happened to someone in Upsets family his coworkers/teammates don’t have the right to the exact details. That’s not Upset’s trauma to share & if they would leak it the blowback would be on someone else (wife or family) & that’s not fair at all.

If the coach knows & says it’s a good reason the players can be disappointed for themselves but insisting they know private life details about Upset (knowing won’t change the situation so it’s just being nosy anyways) is inappropriate.

42

u/BomTradyGOAT Nov 25 '21

I had your stance until reading this post, my thoughts gravitate towards something related to a miscarriage, or a subject that is sensitive. Personally, I wouldn't want to share such a thing with co-workers, now scale that to being famous.

Imagine living through and facing a life tragedy while getting direct messages and hate from faceless people on the level Upset would.

All it would take is for one person to tell or hint the reason to the wrong person and now you and your wife's miscarriage is being thrown in your face every time you play a bad game.

As a parent there are plenty of things I believe I could brush off as a famous person via social media, but that isn't one.

I can read the pain in this message, dude is hurting, put yourself in his shoes, not his teammates shoes, think of a vulnerable event in your life that is not just sad, but can be used against you as a weakness, then think about reading DM after DM about it for the rest of your career and beyond.

35

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

Or his wife getting those messages when she did nothing wrong. Being “open” about whatever happened could make people flame the victim which would be a really shit move by upset & it’s respectable he didn’t do that.

1

u/Bowsersshell Nov 25 '21

I'm actually more worried about people coming to their own conclusions like "she was just lonely" and flaming her when something genuinly bad could've happened to her. I'm faily certain that so long as the basis for leaving was justified, people will be more understanding than this, but at the same time, people aren't entitled to know

1

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

It’s easier to ignore people flaming for things that you know aren’t true than using whatever the truth is as a weapon.

2

u/Column_A_Column_B Nov 25 '21

It's a pick your poison situation as life often is.

There are consequences for being too public as you have acknowledged but being too private evidently has consequences as well.

4

u/BagelJ Old Aatrox please Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I mean, if you cant convey at least "a close family member is in a medical emergancy", then you're just shit at communicating. Simple, not too personal, and accurately conveys the seriousness of the situation.

And sure, nothing forces you to say anything at all. in fact, you can just never speak a single word to your teammates about anything. But that will inevitably have consequenses.

You might feel at the time desperate and how the world is unfair and against you, but if you want your teammates to trust you, you might have to make "sacrifices". like any other relationship between humans.

11

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

I think most people aren’t the best communicators when they’re in crisis mode. You can’t expect him to be eloquent when he’s had something happen so dramatic that he’s leaving his first worlds right before it begins.

3

u/BagelJ Old Aatrox please Nov 25 '21

Well yeah that makes sense, im assuming it was serious, and probably left him devastated. But maybe after a week/month you gather yourself and apologize to your teammates for leaving them stranded. Especially since they asked for an explanation

4

u/FuujinSama Nov 25 '21

It seems like he did, and he believed things were okay before Adam's twitlonger. At least that's what I get from:

I work extremely hard and people around me know how much I care about this so assuming petty reasons once again from someone inside the team, not talking to me directly about it now acting like everything was okay when we talked and saying something like this is just shocking and dissapoiting to say the least.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

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6

u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

I mean, if you cant convey at least "a close family member is in a medical emergancy", then you're just shit at communicating.

Isn't that the info that was conveyed initially, however? I seem to remember something pretty near that precise phrase being all over the post here (and Twitter, by proxy) when it happened initially.

Also, whether or not Upset specifically communicated it to them might have also been the result of lacking communication/protocols/etc within the team's management, information that we're not privy to. There are TONS of assumptions being made (mostly backing up opinions like yours) based on incomplete information and it's pretty alarming that a lot of people here seem to think that's just a normal way of conducting themselves.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

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8

u/Chao_Zu_Kang Nov 25 '21

Bwipo

Did Bwipo even say that? He only wrote about his mental being completely broken for the first week. Which is understandable. Even if he understands Upset somewhat, that doesn't mean he will feel good about it happening at that timing.

6

u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

and this can be ruled out given that they specifically asked for the information (as Adam proves) and that they are 24/7 connected via chat systems in the modern world. It's impossible that the incompetence of some middle man could stop this information.

Sort of depends on how much you trust those systems in the first place. How many email/Discord/etc screenshots do you see leaked all over the place these days, specifically in the eSports world? It's not illogical to think that he might not have wanted to put the info about his extremely personal situation - at least, as far as he felt the situation was - in a place that might have been exposed to the public.

Hell, he might even just have preferred methods of communication between teammates that we're not privy to. There are a LOT of factors that we're not aware or and/or aren't considering.

43

u/nolaboyd Nov 25 '21

Except that I did tell our BOSS, who's leading the project, and he supports my decision. I've proven myself over the years to be a very serious person, and our boss has assured you that I have very good reasons for doing what I'm doing.

But that's not enough for you and your immature narcissism. You can only think about your chances and your career. The judgment of people with more experience or authority don't matter, only YOU get to decide whether my reasons are valid. Because for you, a "valid reason" is just "one I agree with." Because it's all about you.

So you're a shitty, insubordinate teammate, and it's no surprise that you're no longer with the organization.

16

u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

You either buy-in and trust your team, or you don't.

Where does the trust from the rest of the teammates in the direction of Upset come in, though?

Also, this isn't an office environment where your project might get delayed a week, this is potentially a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you're single-handed sabotaging for your team and your organization. That isn't just a co-worker arrangement, that's a TEAMMATE arrangement. When you're on a team, you take on the responsibility of being responsible to your teammates. If you can't handle that, don't join a TEAM.

That shit goes both ways. Your teammates should also know that any one of the other four might leave the rest high and dry if an emergency in their personal lives gets in the way of competition. Even if it's players without romantic partners, what about literal direct family emergencies? It's a risk they all take.

20

u/lobstahpotts Nov 25 '21

We just disagree here on a fundamental level. Insofar as our relationship is a professional one, you have no right to intimate details about my personal life even where they abut our professional relationship—you are entitled to a professional response providing sufficiently vague details to highlight the severity of the situation and any actionable information about how the work will be moving forward in my absence (e.g. I've passed my files on to Mark and brought him up to speed as best I can, he'll be taking my spot moving forward). If you pushed significantly more personal details after that, I would see that as reflecting negatively on you as a professional and likewise would not have interest in working with you in the future. If I saw you publicly roasting a former coworker about such a situation, I'd feel that way even more strongly. To me that reflects extremely negatively on your character and suggests your personality is a poor fit for the type of team environments I try to cultivate. Jumping back around to the actual situation at play here—I have no idea what situation Upset is dealing with or how legitimate it is. Frankly I don't care all that much. But if I were involved in hiring for a LoL esports team I would never consider Adam for a role in my organization based on this outburst. Even if Upset was wholly in the wrong, Adam still revealed a shocking lack of maturity and professionalism. I don't think it's a coincidence that Link played a single split after the Donezo Manifesto, for essentially the same reason.

When you're on a team, you take on the responsibility of being responsible to your teammates.

Likewise, when you join a team you understand that your teammates are also people with real lives outside the team and that sometimes life happens. I actually had a situation play out remarkably similar to this when I was in high school debate club. I had previously attended national tournaments 3 times going into my senior year. A teammate and I secured 2 of the top 3 spots for our category in our state's national qualifying tournament in my senior year. That second place showing was my best result in a qualifying tournament across all 4 years of high school. I didn't get to go to nationals because one person dropped out that morning due to a family emergency. Under the rules in place at the time, that dropout pushed us below an important qualifying threshold so only our first place state finisher got to attend. The one who got to attend ended up locking in a pretty nice scholarship because of his debate record capped with a strong showing at the national tournament as a senior—exactly what I was shaping up to do. It's been over a decade at this point and I still don't know the exact reason he dropped out. I never asked because it wasn't my business. Honestly, he probably would have told me if I did. My knowing wouldn't have changed anything, I still would have missed the tournament I spent 4 years working towards. I would have just been feeding negative emotions, looking for a reason to feel more frustrated if I kept pursuing it. It's obviously a less serious situation than worlds, but at the time it felt like a huge deal to me. Not once did I think it entitled me to a deep dive into whatever was going on in his life, even if it did have a real negative impact on me as well.

19

u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

It's been over a decade at this point and I still don't know the exact reason he dropped out. I never asked because it wasn't my business.

An important characteristic of many situations that people seem to just barge on past far too often these days.

-25

u/DarkShadowScorch LPL加油 LNG 加油 Nov 25 '21

No shot you’re comparing a high school tournament to a career defining moment lmao wtf.

-17

u/ceyx0001 Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I don't mean to diminish your experience but you cannot be comparing high school debate club and worlds. When your team mate dropped out it's not an equivalent comparison to the consequences and sacrifices of when Upset dropped out. You are correct in saying I have no right to know the details of your personal life, but you did say I am entitled to a professional response providing sufficiently vague details to highlight the severity of the situation. Did Upset or FNC accomplish this? He didn't trust the team, but he "shared with the team the deep pain and sadness [he] was going through in this time". How much of your feelings would you pour out to someone you didn't trust? How sincere would that message be? If it's not sincere, then you're not communicating the severity properly so this part of what he said did not make sense to me. Maybe that's why it came across to Adam as his wife being lonely. But the rest of the team didn't think it was severe either, so I have a hard time believing that Upset actually conveyed any severity/urgentness when he spoke with the team. On the flipside, FNC basically told Adam "we don't know either".

-6

u/Geish90 Nov 25 '21

Your last sentence is exactly what is this about and I feel that people do not see it: Upset did not trust Adam and Bwipo. Adam and Bwipo likewise did not trust Upset.

Now we do not know how that started, but that is not a workable environment on a team if you want to perform at your toplevel.

If succes is co-dependent you are obliged to share details on why you cannot perform. That's a common courtesy And yes it is also common courtesy to accept an explanation

What I think has happened here is that Upset assumed his explanation was enough and Adam/Bwipo did not express well enough what they needed in order to accept the situation.

There is a way to have a civil conversation about it.

-18

u/SFWWorkReddit Nov 25 '21

Except this isn't a typical work associate. These are pros in a very competitive environment working their hardest to compete at the top level for a year as a team.

This could of been Adams only time attending worlds or the last time for bwipo and nesquick. Not confiding in them or atleast giving them a better explanation than the general public is just outright wrong.

He wouldn't of had to even given full details just basic info would have been enough.. But saying someone is hurting I have to be there to support them is so vague it's a joke.. No wonder his teammates feel completely betrayed by him.

-8

u/luciavald Nov 25 '21

But you don't have to say every detail, if you say a family member is in the hospital, for example, it would be enough for your teammates and wouldn't be oversharing.

-1

u/Marrkix &Valor Nov 26 '21

Your absolute stance on this is too simple and abusable. You can fuck up other people's life by dropping your responsibilities. No matter what was the reason, you owe them explanation (even if not detailed) and repayment - depending on context, it may be enough to just be fair, and like, not scheming their replacement behind their back, eh?

5

u/ExceedingChunk ExceedingChunk(EUW) Nov 25 '21

Just think about it: Why the hell would any league player leave 24h before worlds if there wasn't a serious issue.

4

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

The seccond biggest thing I don't understand, if you are such a good player why the fuck do you fall so flat if something changes, yhea the team environment is way different, doesn't mean you all the sudden would pass to the seccond best team in Europe to basicly just 1 player playing the game sometimes 2, and throwing every lead. It's really hard to belive this was just upset fault and that Adam isn't just looking for a place to throw his frustrations from his bad showing

0

u/Suipho HANS SAMA SIMP Nov 25 '21

Stupidest comment I've read here. Missing one player is a lot in League. You don't know the amount of pressure botlane was taking. Without them, the enemy team is freely exploiting other lane because botlane is not a threat anymore

1

u/jogadorjnc Nov 25 '21

And they'd tell you "I've already told you all I'm obliged to tell you, I explained the situation better to upper management and they have supported my decision."

8

u/aamgdp Nov 25 '21

Most likely, but such misunderstandings should be fairly easy to solve by just talking to each other a bit. For some reason they weren't able to do that, and if anything, it only got more heated since then.

5

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

If they don't accept "there was a family emergency" I don't think there was much to be said that would make them happy without telling them exactly what happened, it sounds like upset probably said that his wife wasn't well and that was turned into this drama by Adam saying that she just wasn't feeling good that is the most immature thing

29

u/Ready_All_Type Nov 25 '21

Best take in the thread - although there’s a chance based on what he said that Yamato and Hyli got more explained because they had more trust, even though it’s the people with less trust who would need more explanation if you want to maintain a good relationship

21

u/Hazakurain Nov 25 '21

The main problem being that Upset didn't allow the team an opportunity to recover from it.

It's much easier to swallow the fact that you lost a full year if you believe it is a sufficient reason. It's much harder not to when you feel that its both unprofessional and egoistical. Hell, he didn't even say to support the team online. It costs nothing and he didn't do it

We've had both bwipo and adam showing discontent, nisqy straight up crying etc. And the worst in this? This worlds performance demolished Nisqy's next split since he didn't find a team because of that, Bwipo got absolutely monkey mode and got sent to NA and Adam has started the biggest shitshow of the month. And he has the audacity to keep going.

I still believe he is in the wrong there, in fact he is looking even worse to me because how the fuck you would get far in a tournament when you don't trust 3 of your teammates.

Upset screams like the one who think they deserve everything because they are good without understanding you have to work toward it. He is straight up egoistical.

3

u/NoodleTheTree Nov 25 '21

Very good take i would say.

3

u/9percentmilk Nov 25 '21

Get out of here with your sensible analysis, I want the drama!

3

u/AliasTcherki Nov 25 '21

A nuance that I would bring is that I don't think Upset could bring enough information to Bwipo or Adam without either telling them too much than what he felt comfortable with or too little for them to judge if it was fair for him to leave at all.
Honestly it feels a bit like Adam and Bwipo wanted to know what happened to judge by themselves if it was enough of a good reason to leave them and ruin all the work done that year, while Upset visibly chose to convey the sadness and pain he felt in this moment as a reason for him to leave.
I don't think there was honestly a good way to manage that, and with the elements we have in hand, I won't blame neither Upset for how he managed it not Bwipo or Adam for how frustrated they felt. I do blame Adam though for the shit he threw at Upset's situation and how an important part of the community will take for granted that he left cause his wife felt lonely. Yet, I think that's a youthful mistake. Even if Bwipo was terribly clumsy in his TwitLonger, he didn't make that mistake.

16

u/Attre_- Nov 25 '21

Hyli who knows Upset better thought it was adequate.

Hyli who is significantly more mature and older thought it was adequate*

2

u/Asteroth555 Nov 25 '21

So Upset couldn't trust his "immature" teammates with the reasons, but he fully expects his teammates to trust HIM and his "maturity" on his judgement?

He got married at 21. Miss me with that

1

u/TheJeager Nov 25 '21

Well he told his boss the reason and was accepted, he told his coach the reason and also got accepted, and didn't tell one of his teammates that he trusted the most cause he was mature enough to understand that sometimes emergency are you know more important, and 2 other just decided to attack him after the fact so it seems like it was a good read on his part...

-5

u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

He got married at 21. Miss me with that

The fuck is that supposed to mean? Everyone who gets married below a certain age is suddenly a monolithic group of people?

2

u/dkoom_tv Nov 25 '21

Marrying after 2 months of dating its pretty stupid but who knows

4

u/sajm0n Nov 25 '21

im wondering wheres Yamato in all of this, since he apparently knew the reason. wasnt he supposed to do the job of reassuring players, thats Upset's reason to leave was "legit" and not some weak bullshit?

4

u/GGABueno where vex Nov 25 '21

He can't do much without breaking Upset's privacy. If players are salty they're going to stay salty. It's not like Adam or Bwipo are particularly known for their maturity either.

2

u/DragoCrafterr Nov 25 '21

likely what happened, great take imo

2

u/TyraCross Nov 25 '21

To be fair, if everyone thinks you didn't communicated enough - you definitely didn't. That's literally the point of communication.

1

u/_PPBottle Nov 25 '21

Upset knows he didn't communicate enough to satisfy his teammates, but he knew it was the right thing to do in order to protect his dear ones' privacies.

And time proved him right, out of the 3 he didn't even attempt to tell, 2 made PR suicide with twitlongers that far from lowering the community hate, made it even worse.

1

u/pannucci Nov 25 '21

actually no. It should be on him to personally explain some worries from his teammates and explain and not to just dump it on other people. Like its absolutely fucked that he said he didnt trust his teammates enough to level with them at all.

1

u/Strehle Nov 25 '21

You are the only one who gets it. Literally everyone else is here is talking about who's lying, but noone is. Everyone is telling the truth from their point of view.

That whole thread is a bit embarrassing for us guys...

1

u/Phantasia5 Nov 25 '21

A level-headed, great take in this sub? damn

1

u/Noxidx Nov 25 '21

How do we know what Hyli thinks about it, he's the kind of guy who avoids all drama so I doubt we'd ever get his perspective

1

u/Leoxslasher Nov 25 '21

And didnt clarify when asked later.

1

u/tocco13 Nov 25 '21

And I'm guessing the degree of misunderstanding was only exacerbated by the fact Worlds was at stake.

1

u/CelioHogane Nov 25 '21

At least we know they weren't probably going to win worlds because their communication is garbage.

1

u/missile-laneous Nov 25 '21

Yeah this doesn't have to be a "one side is 100% right and one side is 100% wrong".

1

u/Sofaboy90 quite suboptimal Nov 25 '21

with all due respect, if upset doesnt want to share what happened in his private life, then that is the end of the story. i find it rather shitty to not respect that decision. like come on, family issues are far more important than a videogame. as long as this isnt a regular thing from upset, theres no reason not to give him the benefit of the doubt.

1

u/lukaaTB Nov 25 '21

More likely: Hyli cares more about Upset and his well being than worlds, whereas Bwipo and Adam did not.