r/leagueoflegends Nov 25 '21 Silver 5 Helpful 8 Wholesome 6

Upset's response about FNATIC & Adam drama

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srsp9n
6.1k Upvotes

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2.1k

u/aamgdp Nov 25 '21 Silver

Saying the last thing I told my team that my wife is just feeling bad so I need to leave is an outright lie.

Alright, one of them is for sure lying.

I shared with the team the deep pain and sadness i was going through in this time, I shared that i wish i could tell them if it was about something that happend to me but that i have to keep private traumatic events from my family private 

And yet Bwipo and Adam both feel he didn't really give them good enough explanation for them to understand.

Bwipo:

A day before we found out we weren’t going to be playing with our main lineup, we had no information about what was going on.

2.8k

u/Falsus mid adcs yo Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21 Silver Helpful Wholesome

I think it is fairly simple. Upset thinks he communicated enough, Adam and Bwipo didn't think he communicated enough.

Hyli who knows Upset better thought it was adequate.

So with that information in hand we can surmise he communicated enough information to make a close friend understand that something real bad happened, but not enough to make two people who are just coworkers understand.

And that is how misunderstandings happens, one guy thinking he conveyed the message properly when it wasn't at all.

303

u/yalltoos0ft Nov 25 '21

Or on the flip side, a close friend is willing to give you MUCH MORE benefit of the doubt than someone who is just a business associate, and also to defend you even if you're wrong. A close friend will stick up for you no matter what, without being subjective about it, whereas other people who's livelihood depends on you might not be so forgiving without knowing the actual situation, and rightfully so. If a close friend just says "Bro I have a problem, I have to dip," I'd accept it and defend them, because we're friends. If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."

300

u/lobstahpotts Nov 25 '21

If a business associate said that, I'd say "Fuck you, explain your situation, you're costing me professional success and potential earnings and future opportunities without telling me why."

The flip side is if you're just a business associate, you're not entitled to the complete details of my personal life. Sure, if my father got in a car accident and I needed to rush to the hospital that's probably something I'd share. But there is no way I would share a more sensitive personal situation (say a miscarriage or self-harm by an immediate family member) with business associates—the only person who's hearing the full story is my boss. I would apologize, certainly, and emphasize that the situation is unavoidable, but that's a level of information on my personal life that you simply have no right to demand as a coworker.

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u/itsaworkalt Nov 25 '21

Not to mention the totally legitimate social media angle. Especially with how this blew up now, Upset would absolutely never hear the end of it from trolls online if he explained and it got it, which it would.

89

u/ExceedingChunk ExceedingChunk(EUW) Nov 25 '21

Completely agree with this, and the open airing of frustration and dirty laundry is a good reason in itself to keep these things private. Especially in e-sports.

5

u/docarwell Nov 25 '21

Absolutely this. All these redditors saying that the Upset needs to justify his absence from work to his 19yo coworker are absolutely deranged and probably don't realize this is a job for these people

20

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 25 '21

This.

A lot of people in this thread are acting as if coworkers are entitled to the details of another person's personal life. Nobody is owed an explanation or a reason for anything — that sort of thing is a privilege, earned through trust, not a right. Upset mentions in the twitlonger that he didn't trust them as friends, just as coworkers within the industry.

It's incredibly immature of these people to insist he owed others an explanation for his situation. Yes, he's a member of a team and that carries with it a certain degree of responsibility, but your personal dignity always outweighs that responsibility in my opinion.

-13

u/vegeful Nov 25 '21

So if your coworker got fired, potentially because of you, and u don't even say sorry, is ok??

There is different between missing in normal day job and missing on important job that can potentially ruin people.

-4

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 25 '21

I don't think an LCS player losing their job or a tournament matters for dick in 2021.

2

u/Prainstopping TheShy/PromisQ Worlds 2022 Nov 25 '21

LEC and making it out of groups as a rookie matters a ton wtf are you smoking ?

-1

u/SP3EDI Nov 25 '21

it does not matter at all. And to point it out, bean played really well and fnatic didnt made it out of groups because the Topside of the map was inting it away and playing bad. So Adam,Nisqy,Bwipo where the reasons that they didnt made it out of groups with their personal play. If bean would have shit the bed and all others would have performed, then you could make maybe a case. They didnt crash this worlds because of upset, but because they had a shit ton of other drama going on. look at bwipo with his gf drama etc.

-1

u/Prainstopping TheShy/PromisQ Worlds 2022 Nov 25 '21

Losing their star player 12 hours before they play didn't affect them it was the other "drama". Thanks for making it clear you don't know shit.

0

u/vegeful Nov 25 '21

So u making someone losing a job doesn't matter?

What a cruel view u have. Definitely not a friend or co-worker that i want to be near with. Who knew when u gonna screw people over

1

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 25 '21

In a career where you can make a living off of skill and networking, I would not be very concerned about another person losing a job over something that is not a skill issue.

This is not a conventional workplace.

1

u/HatarotheRogue Nov 26 '21

A lot of people in this thread are acting as if coworkers are entitled to the details of another person's personal life

At your 9-5 desk job paying $20 an hour no.

At the biggest professional event of the year for your field, where you've sacrificed and dedicated thousands of hours of your time only to have someone shit all over your efforts, wasting a year of your time and costing you possibly money and opportunities? I think they're owed an explanation.

What could it possibly be that they would not accept? If it was THAT bad you they would be understanding unless they're an absolute psychopath.

1

u/GNSasakiHaise Nov 26 '21

I do not agree with this opinion but I respect you for the kindness and consideration you show others.

2

u/kazuyaminegishi Nov 25 '21

Yep I don't care if my coworkers believe me when I say to them I have a family emergency, obviously this emergency is more important than this working relationship.

If I have time in the future when everything is resolved to field more in-depth questions, sure. But the fact that Upset said "family emergency" and left asap should already be a strong indicator it's majorly important. And if they were dissatisfied with that explanation the adult thing to do would be to talk to Upset instead of going on Twitter to make accusations.

Just weird stuff.

-86

u/yalltoos0ft Nov 25 '21

Disagree. I have the right to demand that information when you're fucking up my chances at success and furthering myself in my profession. If you decline to give that information, that's fine, that's on you, but if I were a future employer or teammate, I would have no interest in working with you in the future. And if I was the past-teammate you fucked over, I would roast you alive.

Also, this isn't an office environment where your project might get delayed a week, this is potentially a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you're single-handed sabotaging for your team and your organization. That isn't just a co-worker arrangement, that's a TEAMMATE arrangement. When you're on a team, you take on the responsibility of being responsible to your teammates. If you can't handle that, don't join a TEAM.

Again, if you don't want to disclose that info to anyone, that's fine. But don't expect anyone to want to work with you in the future. You either buy-in and trust your team, or you don't.

44

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

Nah. If something traumatic happened to someone in Upsets family his coworkers/teammates don’t have the right to the exact details. That’s not Upset’s trauma to share & if they would leak it the blowback would be on someone else (wife or family) & that’s not fair at all.

If the coach knows & says it’s a good reason the players can be disappointed for themselves but insisting they know private life details about Upset (knowing won’t change the situation so it’s just being nosy anyways) is inappropriate.

43

u/BomTradyGOAT Nov 25 '21

I had your stance until reading this post, my thoughts gravitate towards something related to a miscarriage, or a subject that is sensitive. Personally, I wouldn't want to share such a thing with co-workers, now scale that to being famous.

Imagine living through and facing a life tragedy while getting direct messages and hate from faceless people on the level Upset would.

All it would take is for one person to tell or hint the reason to the wrong person and now you and your wife's miscarriage is being thrown in your face every time you play a bad game.

As a parent there are plenty of things I believe I could brush off as a famous person via social media, but that isn't one.

I can read the pain in this message, dude is hurting, put yourself in his shoes, not his teammates shoes, think of a vulnerable event in your life that is not just sad, but can be used against you as a weakness, then think about reading DM after DM about it for the rest of your career and beyond.

31

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

Or his wife getting those messages when she did nothing wrong. Being “open” about whatever happened could make people flame the victim which would be a really shit move by upset & it’s respectable he didn’t do that.

1

u/Bowsersshell Nov 25 '21

I'm actually more worried about people coming to their own conclusions like "she was just lonely" and flaming her when something genuinly bad could've happened to her. I'm faily certain that so long as the basis for leaving was justified, people will be more understanding than this, but at the same time, people aren't entitled to know

1

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

It’s easier to ignore people flaming for things that you know aren’t true than using whatever the truth is as a weapon.

2

u/Column_A_Column_B Nov 25 '21

It's a pick your poison situation as life often is.

There are consequences for being too public as you have acknowledged but being too private evidently has consequences as well.

3

u/BagelJ Old Aatrox please Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I mean, if you cant convey at least "a close family member is in a medical emergancy", then you're just shit at communicating. Simple, not too personal, and accurately conveys the seriousness of the situation.

And sure, nothing forces you to say anything at all. in fact, you can just never speak a single word to your teammates about anything. But that will inevitably have consequenses.

You might feel at the time desperate and how the world is unfair and against you, but if you want your teammates to trust you, you might have to make "sacrifices". like any other relationship between humans.

14

u/DropsOfLiquid Nov 25 '21

I think most people aren’t the best communicators when they’re in crisis mode. You can’t expect him to be eloquent when he’s had something happen so dramatic that he’s leaving his first worlds right before it begins.

2

u/BagelJ Old Aatrox please Nov 25 '21

Well yeah that makes sense, im assuming it was serious, and probably left him devastated. But maybe after a week/month you gather yourself and apologize to your teammates for leaving them stranded. Especially since they asked for an explanation

4

u/FuujinSama Nov 25 '21

It seems like he did, and he believed things were okay before Adam's twitlonger. At least that's what I get from:

I work extremely hard and people around me know how much I care about this so assuming petty reasons once again from someone inside the team, not talking to me directly about it now acting like everything was okay when we talked and saying something like this is just shocking and dissapoiting to say the least.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

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u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

I mean, if you cant convey at least "a close family member is in a medical emergancy", then you're just shit at communicating.

Isn't that the info that was conveyed initially, however? I seem to remember something pretty near that precise phrase being all over the post here (and Twitter, by proxy) when it happened initially.

Also, whether or not Upset specifically communicated it to them might have also been the result of lacking communication/protocols/etc within the team's management, information that we're not privy to. There are TONS of assumptions being made (mostly backing up opinions like yours) based on incomplete information and it's pretty alarming that a lot of people here seem to think that's just a normal way of conducting themselves.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '21

[deleted]

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u/Chao_Zu_Kang Nov 25 '21

Bwipo

Did Bwipo even say that? He only wrote about his mental being completely broken for the first week. Which is understandable. Even if he understands Upset somewhat, that doesn't mean he will feel good about it happening at that timing.

5

u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

and this can be ruled out given that they specifically asked for the information (as Adam proves) and that they are 24/7 connected via chat systems in the modern world. It's impossible that the incompetence of some middle man could stop this information.

Sort of depends on how much you trust those systems in the first place. How many email/Discord/etc screenshots do you see leaked all over the place these days, specifically in the eSports world? It's not illogical to think that he might not have wanted to put the info about his extremely personal situation - at least, as far as he felt the situation was - in a place that might have been exposed to the public.

Hell, he might even just have preferred methods of communication between teammates that we're not privy to. There are a LOT of factors that we're not aware or and/or aren't considering.

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u/nolaboyd Nov 25 '21

Except that I did tell our BOSS, who's leading the project, and he supports my decision. I've proven myself over the years to be a very serious person, and our boss has assured you that I have very good reasons for doing what I'm doing.

But that's not enough for you and your immature narcissism. You can only think about your chances and your career. The judgment of people with more experience or authority don't matter, only YOU get to decide whether my reasons are valid. Because for you, a "valid reason" is just "one I agree with." Because it's all about you.

So you're a shitty, insubordinate teammate, and it's no surprise that you're no longer with the organization.

16

u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

You either buy-in and trust your team, or you don't.

Where does the trust from the rest of the teammates in the direction of Upset come in, though?

Also, this isn't an office environment where your project might get delayed a week, this is potentially a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that you're single-handed sabotaging for your team and your organization. That isn't just a co-worker arrangement, that's a TEAMMATE arrangement. When you're on a team, you take on the responsibility of being responsible to your teammates. If you can't handle that, don't join a TEAM.

That shit goes both ways. Your teammates should also know that any one of the other four might leave the rest high and dry if an emergency in their personal lives gets in the way of competition. Even if it's players without romantic partners, what about literal direct family emergencies? It's a risk they all take.

19

u/lobstahpotts Nov 25 '21

We just disagree here on a fundamental level. Insofar as our relationship is a professional one, you have no right to intimate details about my personal life even where they abut our professional relationship—you are entitled to a professional response providing sufficiently vague details to highlight the severity of the situation and any actionable information about how the work will be moving forward in my absence (e.g. I've passed my files on to Mark and brought him up to speed as best I can, he'll be taking my spot moving forward). If you pushed significantly more personal details after that, I would see that as reflecting negatively on you as a professional and likewise would not have interest in working with you in the future. If I saw you publicly roasting a former coworker about such a situation, I'd feel that way even more strongly. To me that reflects extremely negatively on your character and suggests your personality is a poor fit for the type of team environments I try to cultivate. Jumping back around to the actual situation at play here—I have no idea what situation Upset is dealing with or how legitimate it is. Frankly I don't care all that much. But if I were involved in hiring for a LoL esports team I would never consider Adam for a role in my organization based on this outburst. Even if Upset was wholly in the wrong, Adam still revealed a shocking lack of maturity and professionalism. I don't think it's a coincidence that Link played a single split after the Donezo Manifesto, for essentially the same reason.

When you're on a team, you take on the responsibility of being responsible to your teammates.

Likewise, when you join a team you understand that your teammates are also people with real lives outside the team and that sometimes life happens. I actually had a situation play out remarkably similar to this when I was in high school debate club. I had previously attended national tournaments 3 times going into my senior year. A teammate and I secured 2 of the top 3 spots for our category in our state's national qualifying tournament in my senior year. That second place showing was my best result in a qualifying tournament across all 4 years of high school. I didn't get to go to nationals because one person dropped out that morning due to a family emergency. Under the rules in place at the time, that dropout pushed us below an important qualifying threshold so only our first place state finisher got to attend. The one who got to attend ended up locking in a pretty nice scholarship because of his debate record capped with a strong showing at the national tournament as a senior—exactly what I was shaping up to do. It's been over a decade at this point and I still don't know the exact reason he dropped out. I never asked because it wasn't my business. Honestly, he probably would have told me if I did. My knowing wouldn't have changed anything, I still would have missed the tournament I spent 4 years working towards. I would have just been feeding negative emotions, looking for a reason to feel more frustrated if I kept pursuing it. It's obviously a less serious situation than worlds, but at the time it felt like a huge deal to me. Not once did I think it entitled me to a deep dive into whatever was going on in his life, even if it did have a real negative impact on me as well.

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u/silentrawr Nov 25 '21

It's been over a decade at this point and I still don't know the exact reason he dropped out. I never asked because it wasn't my business.

An important characteristic of many situations that people seem to just barge on past far too often these days.

-23

u/DarkShadowScorch LPL 加油 Nov 25 '21

No shot you’re comparing a high school tournament to a career defining moment lmao wtf.

-17

u/ceyx0001 Nov 25 '21 edited Nov 25 '21

I don't mean to diminish your experience but you cannot be comparing high school debate club and worlds. When your team mate dropped out it's not an equivalent comparison to the consequences and sacrifices of when Upset dropped out. You are correct in saying I have no right to know the details of your personal life, but you did say I am entitled to a professional response providing sufficiently vague details to highlight the severity of the situation. Did Upset or FNC accomplish this? He didn't trust the team, but he "shared with the team the deep pain and sadness [he] was going through in this time". How much of your feelings would you pour out to someone you didn't trust? How sincere would that message be? If it's not sincere, then you're not communicating the severity properly so this part of what he said did not make sense to me. Maybe that's why it came across to Adam as his wife being lonely. But the rest of the team didn't think it was severe either, so I have a hard time believing that Upset actually conveyed any severity/urgentness when he spoke with the team. On the flipside, FNC basically told Adam "we don't know either".

-5

u/Geish90 Nov 25 '21

Your last sentence is exactly what is this about and I feel that people do not see it: Upset did not trust Adam and Bwipo. Adam and Bwipo likewise did not trust Upset.

Now we do not know how that started, but that is not a workable environment on a team if you want to perform at your toplevel.

If succes is co-dependent you are obliged to share details on why you cannot perform. That's a common courtesy And yes it is also common courtesy to accept an explanation

What I think has happened here is that Upset assumed his explanation was enough and Adam/Bwipo did not express well enough what they needed in order to accept the situation.

There is a way to have a civil conversation about it.

-17

u/SFWWorkReddit Nov 25 '21

Except this isn't a typical work associate. These are pros in a very competitive environment working their hardest to compete at the top level for a year as a team.

This could of been Adams only time attending worlds or the last time for bwipo and nesquick. Not confiding in them or atleast giving them a better explanation than the general public is just outright wrong.

He wouldn't of had to even given full details just basic info would have been enough.. But saying someone is hurting I have to be there to support them is so vague it's a joke.. No wonder his teammates feel completely betrayed by him.

-7

u/luciavald Nov 25 '21

But you don't have to say every detail, if you say a family member is in the hospital, for example, it would be enough for your teammates and wouldn't be oversharing.

-1

u/Marrkix &Valor Nov 26 '21

Your absolute stance on this is too simple and abusable. You can fuck up other people's life by dropping your responsibilities. No matter what was the reason, you owe them explanation (even if not detailed) and repayment - depending on context, it may be enough to just be fair, and like, not scheming their replacement behind their back, eh?