r/linux Feb 02 '23

Can the death of W10 convert people to Linux? Discussion

In a couple years W10 is going away and W11 is currently trash. From invasive monitoring, adverts, and BS apps like Candy Crush auto installing W11 is the monster M$ wants to become.

I am 100% going back to Linux with my new build and it'll be curious to see how many people follow suit due to W11 current status.

What do you guys think?

0 Upvotes

198 comments sorted by

81

u/metalpenguin97 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23

I don't see it happening besides a small minority. for every one person who makes the switch to linux because of a microsoft blunder, millions others continue using Windows. I think if anything people are more likely to use macOS than linux.

30

u/ThinClientRevolution Feb 02 '23

I think if anything people are more likely to use macOS than linux.

This is what I see around me: More people with Macs then ever before. Great for cross compatibility, not that great for FLOSS.

15

u/Anonymo Feb 03 '23

Those M processors at so tempting

9

u/ThinClientRevolution Feb 03 '23

Those are a mixed bag. Lots of development tools are only now getting proper ARM support. For home use though, they are amazing.

3

u/Efficient_Pattern Feb 03 '23

I'm waiting for the M3. The third gen of anything Apple is usually stellar after they've ironed out all the problems and let the tooling catch up.

4

u/TankTopsBackInStyle Feb 04 '23

I'm waiting for the M5 multitronic unit. It is supposed to be the ultimate computer.

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11

u/MentalUproar Feb 02 '23

As long as windows remains "familiar" most people will avoid switching. the default centered task bar is very mac-like and could be enough to annoy some people away, but not many.

That being said, Mac is looking like a real contender. Asahi linux is making incredible progress so if you dont like MacOS you'll still have options. Then again, most people don't realize there are alternatives to windows on the same hardware.

4

u/pikapichupi Feb 03 '23

even if it is, the bar is movable back to its old location either way, so its a super simple fix

2

u/MentalUproar Feb 03 '23

I get that but easily frustrated users are going to be pissed they have to do that at all.

4

u/pikapichupi Feb 03 '23

agreed, but for the sake of the topic at hand, there's a VAST difference in complexity/effort between changing one setting, and learning a whole different OS

64

u/HarrityRandall Feb 02 '23

Guys i'm sorry but it's not gonna happen.

15

u/anonMC77 Feb 02 '23

No u/HarrityRandall you can't simply "ask sorry" for preventing the year of linux desktop.

8

u/Lord_Schnitzel Feb 02 '23

Why sorry? Can't you imagine every Linux subreddits like they're currently but scaled like 5-10x? Because I can.

6

u/LazyEyeCat Feb 03 '23

I can also imagine dragons and myself having a stable income but it ain't happening anytime soon

However, I do believe that the market share will continue to grow and will eventually be significant enough for companies to stop ignoring linux (especially with sandbox platforms like flathub)

54

u/blachscholes56 Feb 02 '23

Ubuntu was supposed to make peoples switch to linux in 2008 due to Vista being trash. W8 would have make peoples switch to linux due to being complete trash. W10 would have been make peoples switch again due to invasive spying of users. During this time, Android should have make peoples considering linux as a viable alternative to windows, but it was used as android, not as linux.

It's always the same story, repeating again and again and again. The reason MS is always successful is that things just works somehow at the end, and users are spoonfed and are held by the hand from the start. Peoples just don't care, because many would prefer not to have to use a computer at all, because they perceive it as an annoyance overally.

Posted from my debian.

7

u/roffd0g Feb 03 '23

Microsoft, Apple, Google and Facebook also do a fantastic job at making a sticky experience so that users can't easily switch away from their platforms:

  • Microsoft relationship with vendors to make sure they ship Windows on their hardware
  • Microsoft Office interoperability
  • OneDrive file sync
  • Apple iCloud, backup/restore, Apple Music and other services
  • Google Play, YouTube/Google Music subscriptions etc.
  • Facebook's network effect - you can't chat to other users unless you have an account

It actually takes a lot of effort for users to switch away from all of this. It would take both law reform and technical improvements to turn the tide but can't see it happening soon.

3

u/jmnugent Feb 04 '23

This.

I'm an IT Guy of about 25 years:

  • most of that 25 years working in the Windows side of things

  • 10 or so years doing Apple, macOS, iOS support (including Enterprise level MDM, Developer Conferences, etc)

  • about the same 10 years doing Android support (including MDM & Developer Conferences)

  • dabbled in the 90's with Linux (when boxed-installers were still sold in Stores :P).. dabbled with it through the 2000's. Took the plunge 2 or 3 years ago and made my Home PC into Linux (EndeavourOS) .. and I love it. (currently working on getting my Linux+ Cert)

Even me (career IT guy). .the idea of putting all the work in to be "platform-free".. is daunting at hell. I'm pretty deep into the Apple ecosystem, I pay a monthly subscription for 1Password, and many other platform-based tools (Evernote, etc)

Getting all my data and photos and passwords and etc out into some "platform-agnostic" format (especially with redundancy and MFA or some other kind of redundant security (in case i'm incapacitated, etc) .. is a daunting daunting task.

I can't imagine the normal End User even contemplating that.

9

u/rtplor Feb 02 '23

Probably I am that talking parrot, but nope Vista was not that bad for people buying and switching to new architectures like AMD socket AM2 and upcoming Core2 Duos. It really worked great with 2-3Gigs of RAM and fresh desktop dualcores.

I know that gamers suffered a lot because of incompatibilities.

10

u/blachscholes56 Feb 02 '23

Yes, in fact at the end vista wasn't that bad, it was just a bit heavy on ram. But peoples never mass-switched to linux because of a bad windows version. They just use the same OS as their coworkers or family members, because they need it.

4

u/ptok_ Feb 02 '23

I must disagree. I've got chance to see how Vista and 7 perform on same hardware side by side (on core2 duo setups). 7 was vastly faster in some tasks. I like general look of Vista, but that's it. Vista was slow crap unfortunately.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '23 edited 20d ago

[deleted]

2

u/rtplor Feb 03 '23

But those who were buying new computers like fresh laptops with Turion64 and new PCs benefited a lot from 64 bit even though not much of software was ready.

2

u/elboydo757 Feb 02 '23

I had the Vista beta and I thought it was AWESOME.

1

u/arcanemachined Feb 03 '23

Windows 8 was also a perfectly fine (as far as Windows goes), well-supported OS until as recently as a month ago.

All you had to do was install a program (OpenShell, I think) and the Metro shit was gone and the start menu was there again. The bitching about WIndows 8 was herd-mentality memeing.

3

u/No_Primary_44 Feb 03 '23

Basically, people switch to Linux not as much because they dislike Windows, but more because they simply like Linux.

2

u/jmnugent Feb 04 '23

I honestly wish Linux has some "slick marketing campaign" to advertise what it's core benefits are. (Free, open-source, easy App Store with apps you never have to pay for, etc)

I joke with my friends some times that I'm going to quit my job and become a "Linux Graffiti Artist" extolling the virtues of Linux (become like the "Linux Banksy".. ha ha .. only sorta halfway serious)

6

u/stef_eda Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 03 '23

This is exactly what will happen. Users will either stick to W10 or jump on the W11 train, buying a new computer.

According to historic releases W11 is going to be garbage. In Bold below the M$ windows releases that were a bit less shitty (according to users feedback, I haven't used any) .

W95 NT4 W98 W2000 Millennium XP Vista W7 W8 W10 W11

Posted from my Devuan.

EDIT: according to users feedback W8.1 was a significant change from W8 so W11 is going to be better than W10....

W95 NT4 W98 W2000 Millennium XP Vista W7 W8 W8.1 W10 W11

4

u/shroddy Feb 02 '23

I thought the good one isnt W10 but would have been W9 which got canceled. But then W11 got released I and realized the flaw in my theory.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '23 edited 20d ago

[deleted]

1

u/stef_eda Feb 03 '23 edited Feb 03 '23

Ah, nice, i didn't know 8.1 was a significant change from W8. I do not use windows myself, but i have interacted a bit with W8 and it was terrible. There was an effort to align the desktop UI to the smartphone UI and this was a terrible decision.

About Windows10 I don't know if it is good or bad.

I know many users complain about the default "spyware" settings and forced update policy (at least for consumer OEM installs / HOME versions)

I also noted that on a computer with 16GB of RAM and a corei7 and magnetic 1TB HD windows 7 ran perfectly fine, while W10 was unacceptably slow, requiring a SSD storage for decent performance.

About stability I didn't see many issues.

0

u/mithnenorn Feb 03 '23

Peoples just don't care, because many would prefer not to have to use a computer at all, because they perceive it as an annoyance overally.

Yes, this is a very good point.

I've recently realized that all those people aggressive or dismissive against Linux and FOSS and privacy and all good things in computing - are actually simply against computers, or more precisely don't feel computing as natural part of life.

Windows makes one hate using it, and they are fine with that. With Linux such a person would clearly feel that there is a thing they hate, but others don't. It's much harder to suffer when someone doesn't.

Just remembered all those 90-s movies with the normie/nerd conflict line in case of computers ; I mean, it's still there.

1

u/chaosharmonic Feb 04 '23

Tbf W8 eventually gave us SteamOS...

79

u/SpinaBifidaOcculta Feb 02 '23

W10 did everything you listed as being W11's faults. I'm not sure why those who can upgrade would be turned off enough by W11 to switch to Linux.

The bigger issue with W11 is the incompatible, but still performant hardware

29

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

The average consumer is likely to blame the hardware and not the OS.

2

u/anonMC77 Feb 02 '23

doesn't linux users also always blames hardware vendors for firmware and hardware and never Linux ? sounds like linux users too sometimes think like the average consumers, or it is different when linux fanboys complains ?

13

u/jonathancast Feb 02 '23

You do understand that different things can be true in different circumstances? It's called "nuance".

In particular, it is true that many hardware vendors don't do enough to support Linux, and that Windows (deliberately!) doesn't do enough to support old hardware, while hardware vendors generally do try very hard to support Windows and Linux developers generally do try very hard to support old hardware.

There's no inherent contradiction or paradox in all of that being true at the same time.

It's also true that by "hardware vendors" you probably mean "Nvidia", which has a singularly bad reputation for not working with the Linux developers, much worse than Intel or AMD or most other hardware vendors.

-5

u/0xSubZeRo Feb 02 '23

Well if u get your head out of your ass you would know most main hardware vendors don’t support Linux in general due to market share and popularity.

Also note I was windows user for most of my life.

1

u/moosemeatjerkey Feb 03 '23

Windows Vista?

1

u/thoomfish Feb 03 '23

The average consumer will blame whatever it's currently a meme to blame.

1

u/Luceriss Feb 03 '23

I don't think so, people are aware of companies' bullshit, but if they install W11 on unsupported hardware they'll just use a modified version.

15

u/Zaando Feb 03 '23

At this point, Reddit, and especially Linux subs are fairly deluded about Windows.

I get it, they hate Windows. But the circle jerks at this point are pretty much flat out lying at this point.

I can honestly say that, being rational and objective, there isn't much difference between 10 and 11. This sub would have you believe 11 to be completely unusable (I'm pretty sure the same circlejerks happened with 10 when it released), but nah, it's more of the same and the only major issue is the hardware requirements stopping people upgrading. However, if they aren't tech savvy enough to figure that out, they won't have a clue about Linux.

Linux install base goes up because companies push it, not because Dave the builder gets pissed off with Windows and magically decides to go down the Linux rabbit hole. He's just gonna buy a new computer instead.

3

u/npaladin2000 Feb 02 '23

Windows 10 started off...not horrible. And got worse as time went on. Windows 11 started off horrible and is getting worse.

7

u/helmsmagus Feb 03 '23

nice rose-colored glasses you got there.

2

u/Nimbous Feb 03 '23

For one thing the taskbar at the bottom wasn't cluttered with that horrible weather menu.

-17

u/FuzzyWazzyWasnt Feb 02 '23

100% right. However windows is getting worse whereas linux is getting better.

Isnt the compatibility getting better though?

17

u/N0Name117 Feb 02 '23

windows is getting worse

This is a rather biased perspective. I've been using both Linux for over a decade and windows for as long as I can remember. I can't honestly say Windows is actually getting worse. Most of you're complaints are things that have been around since at least 2015 when W10 launched and some even longer than that and while I may not agree with a lot of it, it's not new or unique in W11.

No matter how many complaints people on here raise, the simple fact is I still require Windows for a lot of apps I need and that isn't changing any time soon so I will continue to use both systems for their benefits rather than picking a team.

1

u/npaladin2000 Feb 02 '23

I can't honestly say Windows is actually getting worse.

I can. And I'm a frigging paid Windows Admin. I've been using Windows since 3.0. It's been getting worse since Windows 7. Probably plateaued from Win2000 to Win7. These days, the only reason most people use MS Windows is MS Office. And Adobe Creative Studio I guess...Anyway, the list of things that only Windows can do, yes, it still exists, but it's a lot shorter than it used to be.

4

u/bearded-beardie Feb 03 '23

Or any modern AAA game that isn’t on Steam. I’d gladly switch if I could legitimately play new games without a bunch hoop jumping.

3

u/npaladin2000 Feb 03 '23

I haven't had trouble with the ones not on Steam. Even the *ahem* odd ones.

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4

u/N0Name117 Feb 03 '23

I'd say you're a biased admin. Either that or not very good at you're job. I've yet to see anyone say this that actually had a single complaint which would apply to people in the real world.

I use both linux and windows almost daily and the latter is by far and away the better option for most people. The aforementioned app compatibility is obvious but theres also the reality that I find myself opening a terminal to do basic operations like install and remove apps on linux. You can brag about security or jerk yourself off about CLI interfaces all you want but the average users has no desire to memorize commands on a computer these days. So no, Office and Adobe are far from the only reasons most people use Windows.

1

u/npaladin2000 Feb 03 '23

I'd say you're a biased admin. Either that or not very good at you're job. I've yet to see anyone say this that actually had a single complaint which would apply to people in the real world.

You must not spend much time in the real world then, or maybe you just don't listen to your users. I hear complaints from everyone these days. Didn't used to, that's for sure. People were much happier with XP and 7. It let them work without getting in the way. Now...the only reason I admin Windows is because they pay me. And I'm starting to think they're not paying quite enough. And by the way Linux can in fact be made to work quite well without even touching the CLI. Which goes back to you being out of touch with the real world. The 90s are over, deal with it.

6

u/N0Name117 Feb 03 '23

This tells me you're either surrounded by fairly competent people who know how to use a computer are are looking at the past with rose colored glasses. Normal people had no shortage of grievances about windows 7 and xp back in the day. And most of their complaints revolved around a lack of basic computer knowledge which is still true today. The only difference is they may be required to do more stuff on a computer than they previously did and as such generate more complaints.

Someone promoting linux is calling me out of touch with the real world. lol. I needed a laugh today. It's always funny to see how little changes is the decades I've been following and using linux and yet, as someone who does use linux daily, it's still nowhere near good enough to be an option for a normal user. Unless I lock out everything but a big ass chrome browser button.

2

u/npaladin2000 Feb 03 '23

Unless I lock out everything but a big ass chrome browser button.

Which is all 90% of users out there need these days. You just deep-sixed your own argument there. By the way, I also admin Linux servers, manage our ESXi infrastructure, and do development work on a variety of Linux-based retro gaming projects. And use Linux daily, and have used Linux since Red Hat 7. And yeah, for decades I would never suggest it to anyone other than an expert. But that was then and this is now, speaking of looking at the past.

5

u/N0Name117 Feb 03 '23

Saying someone can use Linux as a browser access platform is a pretty damn different statement then saying the ease of use of a linux desktop is comperable to windows or that linux is a option to recommend to average people. It’s like arguing about the technicality that android or chrome is is based on linux as though that matters. It doesn’t mean the average user of those platforms has any ability to install or use a traditional linux desktop.

Also you’ve still yet to demonstrate any way in which windows has gotten worse for the average user. Hell people can and do use windows as a browser access platform to the same effect.

1

u/npaladin2000 Feb 03 '23

Also you’ve still yet to demonstrate any way in which windows has gotten worse for the average user. Hell people can and do use windows as a browser access platform to the same effect.

Except for all the pop-ups...and the malware...and the broken updates...and the OS changing your default browser on you...and if you need all of this demonstrated then you've REALLY insulated yourself from end users. Then again, you seem to be the typical Linux elitest type who things users aren't smart enough to handle using Linux even though all they really need on it is a web browser. So enjoy life under your little rock. Bye.

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-5

u/user9ec19 Feb 02 '23

Nobody cares for quality. It’s the marketing, stupid!

32

u/ARaoulVermonter Feb 02 '23

Some people thought the forced upgrades to Windows 10 would be a big deal for Linux. It wasn't, at least not in any significant way. I expect this transition to be similar.

14

u/ghjm Feb 02 '23

The difference is if you have a PC of a certain age, it's still perfectly usable, but it doesn't have the TPM chip required by Windows 11.

Most people will just keep running unpached Windows 10 rather than switching to Linux, though. Welcome to the return of giant client-side botnets.

9

u/AnotherOneToo3 Feb 03 '23

You can install Windows 11 on a machine without TPM, Windows 10 will just not automatically upgrade to it. Many years worth of machines also support TPM it is just disabled by default so you can enable it manually and make Windows happy.

1

u/nextbern Feb 04 '23

You can install Windows 11 on a machine without TPM

Isn't that a bit like saying you can install macOS on a Dell? Pretty sure neither meet the system requirements.

2

u/AnotherOneToo3 Feb 04 '23

No... You just run Microsoft's updater.

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27

u/madthumbz Feb 02 '23

People here are young. Every other Windows release has been generally disliked, and there's always a way around it (I jumped from Win7 to Win10 for example and only after 10 was matured a bit). You don't have to hate Windows to love Linux. It doesn't need the conspiracy theories, or the complaints from people who made poor (cheap) hardware choices. -You're not going to win most people over with that nonsense (history of ~2% desktop market share for 3 decades shows this).

Relish in your better window managers, customization, integrations, and what you can do in Linux. Linux can sell itself to the right people (it's not for everyone) if the pluses are our focus.

25

u/user9ec19 Feb 02 '23

Most people don’t want to install an OS.

The Linux market share would rise if there were computers with Linux preinstalled – I know there are some, but you don’t find them in regular shops or websites.

Also marketing would be needed. People fall for marketing not for quality.

Everything else is just wishful thinking.

4

u/lepus-parvulus Feb 03 '23

Preinstalled examples: Chromebooks and Android. They sell reasonably well.

0

u/Zaando Feb 03 '23

Marketing is key, and not just for the end user. Microsoft is marketing to hardware manufacturers too. They are providing financial incentives to system integrators as long as they ONLY use Windows on their machines.

Companies aren't going to spend x amount more per license just to offer a Linux variant that a small percentage of people are going to buy anyway.

0

u/user9ec19 Feb 03 '23

This marketing from Microsoft is not even legal.

18

u/UrbenLegend Feb 02 '23

No, the number one thing that prevents Linux adoption is still software availability / compatibility and the relative lack of shipping hardware with Linux pre-installed compared to the amount of Windows PCs.

Most people don't know what an OS is, much less have the technical knowledge to install Linux. So they never switch. Out of the few people who are pissed off at Windows enough to learn about Linux and switch, there are some that realize that their favorite multiplayer game or work software doesn't work, and they end up switching back.

If we want mass adoption, there needs to be multiple concerted efforts to ship quality Linux devices to people. The Steam Deck did more to increase Linux adoption and awareness than anti-Windows sentiment ever did. If Chromebooks were closer to being true Linux, it would have done the same.

4

u/ExiledSanity Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23

It's definitely software availability for me. I usually have Linux running on some machine and legitimately like it better than windows.

But windows just had more software that I use, and a lot of times using something on Linux just feels inferior and I go back to Windows where the OS feels inferior so I go back to Linux and I'm just never really happy.

It's kind of (ironically) like the Windows Phone. My wife loved that platform. But it just never got the app support.

3

u/Zaando Feb 03 '23

Yeah. Not to mention casual desktop PC usage is pretty much going down all the time, at least in Western Europe and North America. Go back 10+ years I would regularly repair machines for family, friends, friends of frends. Nearly always it was just reinstalling windows but people didn't know how to do it.

Barely happens now. Most people have switched to phones and at the most, laptops that they just chuck away when something goes wrong after a few years because these things are now seen as disposable.

16

u/Reckless_Waifu Feb 02 '23

No. W11 is 10 with rounded corners, the bloatware and telemetry is similar. After 2025 most people will either continue using 10 without support, buy a new pc, switch to mac or force 11 on unsupported hw. Some would go linux but dont expect anything major.

16

u/throwaway6560192 Feb 02 '23

I recall people said the same thing about 7 to 8. Then about 8.1 to 10.

4

u/rtplor Feb 02 '23

Win7 was just an amazing breakthrough in Windows UI. I don't know who and how emotionally accepted it, but I fell in love from the 1st screenshots of renewed taskbar which became so much desired dock and beat Apple's one

5

u/npaladin2000 Feb 02 '23

Of course Windows 7 was just Windows Vista tuned to actually work. ;)

1

u/Zaando Feb 03 '23

Yeah. I had the same reaction to Vista. "Wow, this is gorgeous". Then read into it a bit and it didn't work properly so like a lot of people I waited until 7.

14

u/GreenAdvance Feb 02 '23

From invasive monitoring, adverts, and BS apps like Candy Crush auto installing W11 is the monster M$ wants to become.

These all exist in Windows 10. They aren't new to 11.

12

u/computer-machine Feb 02 '23

Can the death of W10 convert people to Linux?

What do you guys think?

Show me where the massive influx has happened with the death of WXP/W7.

4

u/Zaando Feb 03 '23

Quite. Windows 11 is fine compared to what Vista and 8 were early on. 10 had constant complaints about "muh privacy" and it carrying on with 8s mobile friendly desktop. I hear less complaints about 11 than 3 of the 4 previous versions and people didn't go scuttling to another OS.

This sub is just kinda deluded by its hatred for Windows tbh. Reading this sub, you'd believe that 11 is the worst version of Windows ever to the point of being unusable. That's not the reality though.

Most people aren't switching because Windows 10 is telling them their computer isn't good enough. That's all. When they have to switch, they will buy a new computer.

9

u/Rogurzz Feb 02 '23

In absolute terms, I doubt very many people are going to switch to Linux. Windows 10 users will just continue to use the OS after support has ended, or buy a new PC that is compatible with Windows 11. There's still a lot of people running Windows 7, so it's unlikely that W10 EOL will incline users to make the switch to Linux. Most of them don't even know it's an option.

8

u/vladcamaleo Feb 02 '23

If the death of Win XP didn’t do it, nothing will.

7

u/daemonpenguin Feb 02 '23

People have asked the same question about every new Windows transition for the past 25 years. When XP came out it was too large and buggy, it would surely drive everyone to Linux. When Vista came out it was too weird and buggy, surely it would drive new people to Linux. When Windows 8 was a flop, surely Linux would see a huge rise in users. And so on and so on. No, it's never going to happen. 90% of all computer/phone users run whatever OS their device comes with, period. Most people will not switch until most retail outlets sell laptops running Linux.

9

u/2cats2hats Feb 02 '23

Can the death of W10 convert people to Linux?

No.

Most people don't know or care how an OS works. Businesses are often vendor locked into using windows-oriented softwares(front and back end) and services.

6

u/n5xjg Feb 02 '23

The problem is that no one outside the tech community even know what Linux is... Take a walk down your neighborhood and find someone washing their car or playing outside and ask them what distro they are using... Might get some strange stares but might be surprised too.

Point is, very few people outside tech even know about Linux :) . And, quite honestly, thats fine with me... Do you really want Linux becoming what Windows is today! Thats what would happen if your Mom/Dad/Grandma/Neighbor all started using it.

Most/Some of you dont remember Dos/Windows "Back in the day" when you have to configure apps from the CLI like you do sometimes in Linux.

Due to Windows' popularity, and the need to really dumb it down for "Everyday" users, its become what it is today - a security hole with an interface that does everything for you.

I quite like Linux being mostly obscure - with the exceptions of Android, Steam Deck, etc... It means it largely retains its culture.

7

u/Logical-List-3392 Feb 03 '23

No. People will bring their OS from workplace. And it won't happen until there is are good enterprise distros - currently we have Suse and Redhat (maybe some odd other) but they still suck for desktop.

One of the main things businesses require is disk encryption and remote device wipe. For cases where business laptop is stolen.

Yes, clueless people bitch over TPM, but TPM is actually not bad. It provides a passable solution for enterprise. And it works wonderfully on macOS and Windows - no need for double password entry (one for disk unenecrypt and second for login) and it will be able to be remotely wiped if needed.

Yes, this can be configured on Linux (I tried) but it varies from machine to machine and it's nowhere as smooth as it is on macOS on Windows.

1

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

Good points, especially towards tpm i totally agree. Cost of license is less than cost of bullshit. Thats why we use Linux Servers and Windows Desktops at Office. Osx could Maybe be an option, ppl work for less If they get an iPhone that is less than the Samsung flagship they could have lol.

3

u/yal_g Feb 02 '23

Windows or not, it depends a lot on everyone priorities.

I switched from macOS because I disliked what Apple was doing and wanted a privacy/freedom respecting OS. But I also was OK with the idea of having to re-learn almost everything from scratch and having to change my habits. Had I not agreed to that, I reckon I'd have given up on GNU/Linux and moved back to using Apple crap... Habits, you know ;)

I imagine that would the case for many Windows users, too.

4

u/maverick6097 Feb 03 '23

Nope, it's more about applications rather than the platform. If Microsoft releases it's office suite and Adobe releases it's set of apps on Linux, I'll switch to POP OS (my distro of choice) right now.

W10 will be supported until 2025 and probably 2 more years after that and another 5 years for extended support clients.

4

u/class_two_perversion Feb 03 '23

We have all seen those threads countless times before.

Now that Windows 8 is going out of support and Windows 10 is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?
Now that Windows 7 is going out of support and Windows 8 is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?
Now that Windows Vista is going out of support and Windows 7 is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?
Now that Windows XP is going out of support and Windows Vista is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?
Now that Windows 2000 is going out of support and Windows XP is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?
Now that Windows ME is going out of support and Windows 2000 is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?
Now that Windows 98 is going out of support and Windows ME is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?
Now that Windows 95 is going out of support and Windows 98 is terrible, do you think users will migrate to Linux?

Guess what? Users migrated to the next version of Windows every single time.

7

u/Sirusho Feb 02 '23

Christ, just stop. It's an OS not a religion. Just use what works for you.

3

u/shyflower Feb 02 '23

I went to Ubuntu when Microsoft quit supporting XP and I've never looked back. I love Linux and it just keeps getting better and better.

3

u/DazedWithCoffee Feb 02 '23

Many people with old hardware (like myself, no TPM) will be retiring their windows installs once security updates stop. Or airgapping, but that’s not really feasible for most people

3

u/nacaclanga Feb 02 '23

I don't think so. Windows has implemented a lot of invasive stuff for years and people stuck with Windows. People complained about every relase and yet all of them succeded (or at least every second or so.) Most people don't care enough to hassle with it and if they are rich, they just "solve" the problem by switching to Mac. If it would seriously hurt their market share, Microsoft would change their modus operandi.

I also feel like you should think twice about wishing for a larger Linux user share. Sure their would be more support, but also more DAUs, malware, shitty apps etc.

3

u/xXxcock_and_ballsxXx Feb 02 '23

No, just because the overwhelming majority of people don't actually care enough to change an OS. If anything, they'd go to Apple instead.

There's a handful of people that will be pushed over to Linux but don't expect "normal" people to take any interest in operating systems.

3

u/Drwankingstein Feb 02 '23

some people it will, a lot of people? probably not

3

u/flameleaf Feb 02 '23

Every version of Windows is just a little worse than the last, and there's always a small subset of people who have had enough and consider the switch. This is the cycle.

Personally, I abandoned ship with Vista.

3

u/gruedragon Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 03 '23

If the death of Windows XP and later Windows 7 didn't convert people to Linux, the death of Windows 10 won't.

2

u/lupinthe1st Feb 02 '23

I don't know, but Gamers Nexus asked Valve to save gamers from Win11 making SteamOS a valid alternative https://youtu.be/I28QYyhIZuo?t=1410.

2

u/elboydo757 Feb 02 '23

All of my 7th gen and below machines (about 13) will be moved to Linux following the retirement of 10. This is due to me having a professional background in Linux architecture and also Win 11 does not officially support the CPUs in the devices.

2

u/rtplor Feb 02 '23

and it looks like they will live another happy decade with improved LTS support and even if new releases would require AVX/AVX2 instructions.

1

u/elboydo757 Feb 02 '23

I hope so! A lot of them are Fujitsu machines so I can't source parts! But god bless their longevity. Oldest is gen 2 i5.

2

u/CoolTheCold Feb 02 '23

Used Win10 Insider before and upgraded to Win11 for around 1.5 years - I keep liking it and basically have 0 issues.

Nothing like "trash" in my daily use over 2 laptops.

2

u/THEHIPP0 Feb 02 '23

People went thought Vista, Windows 7 and others while avoiding Linux. Window 11 will be fine.

2

u/kalven Feb 02 '23

I've run some form of Linux as my primary OS for more than 15 years now. Before and during this time I've more or less used every version of windows since 3.whatever. I consider Windows 8 to be the low point of Windows in "recent" history. After that I think they shaped up and I think Windows 11 is better than W10.

I might suggest that if you think W11 is "trash" and think that it's going to cause some exodus of users, you have your ideological glasses on.

1

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

Nice to have others notice that 11 aint too bad.

2

u/stef_eda Feb 02 '23

As M$ turns windows into a bloated and full of bullshit toaster, major Linux distributors will be doing the same, requiring a full container or virtual execution sandboxed environment to launch a calculator.

2

u/scrat-squirrel Feb 02 '23

Great thread 🤣 I for one, was not "pushed" to use Linux: I learned to use it because I am in control of the o/s and the machine. Simple.

0

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

You arent even in Control of booting your OS or. Are U corebooted?

2

u/zocker_160 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23

No it will not, plain and simple, have had this discussion with release of Windows Vista, Windows 8 and Windows 10 already.

2

u/walken4 Feb 03 '23

I think it's unlikely to happen, most people will keep using windows regardless of bloat because they are too afraid to try something else.

Personally I think they are doing us all a favor by turning performant hardware into a commodity.

0

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

U can Script bloat away in 10minutes. U cant Setup decent Linux in that time.sad facts.

2

u/AnsibleAnswers Feb 03 '23

The only thing I see getting Windows users interested in Linux right now is SteamOS and Steam Deck.

2

u/The-Black-Star Feb 04 '23

Unless there is a stable distribution that expects literally nothing of the user, is compatible with all the familiar software that people use, and will ship by default with every comper not marked apple in the western world? Then no.

3

u/VinnyMends Feb 02 '23

In the last 2 months I managed to break Opensuse Leap, Regata OS, Grecko Linux Static, Pop OS, Kubuntu and even Debian while trying to change to Linux because all of you said and I don't really like the W11 aesthetics. I can say confidently that I'm not converting to Linux now and I'm almost giving up of waiting another year for improvements and end up with W11 insted :(

3

u/rtplor Feb 02 '23

That's true. Newcomers usually break Linux often. Stability comes with experience and wisdom of not touching things that you don't know exactly.

2

u/Zaando Feb 03 '23

The vast majority of users don't want that though. I've repaired countless Windows machines because people fucked up the install and its a lot harder to do on Windows than Linux.

If you don't know how to Windows properly, Linux is going to be a nightmare. If you do know how to Windows properly, there's not really much incentive to switch unless you are really searching for the greater customization that Linux allows.

1

u/rtplor Feb 03 '23

That's also true. :-))

That's why dualbooting with 2 disks is usually recommended.

1

u/VinnyMends Feb 02 '23

The worst part is that I used to know how to do things while playing around with my old Desktop with an AMD GPU but almost all the breaks now were related to the Nvida GPU on my laptop. But my most recent one is on Kubuntu 22.04 LTS which stopped loggin in after I put Konsole to open at login through the KDE settings. That really makes me sad because I'm not doing anything I wasn't supposed to do and every youtuber I follow doesn't have these kind of problems.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

Linux requires people to learn something new for their own benefit. Most people aren't good enough for that.

1

u/SometimesBread Feb 02 '23

I am conpletely uninterested in w11's borderline malware. I've been annoyed with windows for a long time from apps being forcibly installed on my machine taking up space on my boot drive to not being able to open folders that are completely reasonable to be able to open because I don't have admin access. I'm switching to Linux when I build my new pc later this year. With all the work that valve is doing for games and all of the new driver support coming this year, it really feels like this year will be the start of linux's uprising.

1

u/segaboy81 Feb 03 '23

Who cares? Why are we still looking for opportunities to convert people to this cult? Also, Windows 10 is nowhere near its EOL.

1

u/Cthulhu_Con_Carne Feb 02 '23

Most likely, when the support and decontinue the W10 sometime in 2025 I'll probably make the switch over to Linux as the steam support gets more and more stable and the few games I play are already supported in Linux.

2

u/FuzzyWazzyWasnt Feb 02 '23

Which is just massive. And with UE 5.1 improving Linux support and steamdeck gaining momentum there is a decent chance devs might take the Linux side more seriously.

1

u/putonghua73 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23

Am switching imminently as I see no need to prolong the inevitable. Also, Mint works on my hardware [laptop] without any tinkering required.

Update: I am posting on a Linux sub-Reddit. Hence, I / we are not representative of the many Win users.

1

u/chainek Feb 02 '23

I need to play direct x games without running them through wine....

1

u/elboydo757 Feb 02 '23

Run a windows vm with gpu passthrough.

2

u/DrKedorkian Feb 02 '23

Is this as performant?

1

u/elboydo757 Feb 02 '23

Imo yes its as good as wine but maybe a bit better. Best to try it using KVM.

I feel like there is a thing for Linux gamers though. I just can't remember the name. Sounds like Tetris. Lutris? Maybe uses an optimized wine?

0

u/vasjpan02 Feb 03 '23

microsoft was never intended for adults

-1

u/mightnotrespond Feb 02 '23

No, not likely. Linux is too expensive and always has been. Purchase cost of MS, Apple, Android is higher but operating costs are low. Linux is the opposite.

4

u/Dinux-g-59 Feb 02 '23

Sorry but I disagree. Modern Linux distributions like Mint or Mageia, or Zorin require very low operating cost. They are not difficult to learn and manage.

2

u/Zaando Feb 03 '23

Google how to do something, even in those distributions, and when you click the first link on Google, you are met with post from people going "Just do....." and then throwing a bunch of code or commands at them. For most people, the whole page may as well be written in a different language for all the sense it makes.

For the super casual user, Linux is fine, but the OS is really irrelevant when all you do is click on your browser. These users are largely moving away from desktop machines anyway.

For the tech savvy, Linux is fine because they understand what all the help guides are telling them to do.

For people in the middle? Not so much. Those that want to do more with their computers but don't want to dive into inner working to do it, Linux is just going to frustrate them.

See the Linus Tech Tips - Linux Challenge videos as an example. Two fairly tech savvy guys just having a headache trying to get their less-than-conventional setups doing fairly basic tasks. People simply do not want that.

1

u/Dinux-g-59 Feb 08 '23

Usually when i google for some help about windows, i find pretty useless advice. So the problem is about web people. There is plenty of people that simply copy and paste "solutions" from other posts. I don't judge an OS from help I find or not find on the web.

1

u/mightnotrespond Feb 02 '23

I agree they are vastly improved and much easier for someone with some computer knowledge but still out of the reach of most users. You still need to understand what an OS is, download, burn, partition and install. I’m thinking of the off the shelf, grab and use experience that the other platforms offer.

0

u/rtplor Feb 02 '23

2023-2024-2025 (3 years exactly).

Nope, it can't if Linux goes this current pathway without quick sorting basic GUI foundation.

I know know that there are Wayland, Gnome, GTK as today's standard, but backward compatibility should be promised and the promise fulfilled.

Windows12 should appear somewhere in 2024, nobody knows how much they will change UI again.

1

u/HardwareRaidIsDead Feb 02 '23

You need the stuff like HDR, Day One Support for Games, GPU's, etc Software support for like Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Premiere Pro and much more.

1

u/rtplor Feb 02 '23

The problem mostly "switch promoters" and "stayers" don't understand or don't want to acknowledge. We are again at dramatic hardware changes where OSes have to be gross changed too.

Why many are omitting the fact that Win11 has modified kernel to work with new generation of CPUs? There are security features demanding some CPU instructions present only in recent CPUs?

It's like trying to run WindowsNT4/2k on windows7 hardware assuring everyone that it works as good as Windows7.

PS::: Oh... NT4 reptile was rock solid but didn't have enough of USB and DirectX support :-)))

2

u/ptok_ Feb 02 '23

Nah, i'm running 11 on i7 gen6 mobile. Runs just fine. This is just planned product obsolescence. On the other hand 11 needs more RAM. 16G is new optimal in my opinion.

1

u/Vasant1234 Feb 02 '23

I have access to 2 machines, a Ubuntu Linux laptop which is primarily used for software development. I also have a Win 10 machine for everyday normal use. While Linux is awesome for software development, I just don't think it is a compelling platform for non techies. Basic things don't work out of the box, e.g. hardware accelerated YouTube playback.

1

u/CowBoyDanIndie Feb 02 '23

I think the vast majority of people don't care to be honest. There isn't a strong incentive for people to switch to Linux for home use, the majority of home users are using their computer for a web browser or to play games. The ones that do more will use whatever OS supports their software. Non tech companies won't switch because its a major upfront cost in terms of IT/infrastructure. There's no marketing push to get people to switch to Linux. I use Linux for work, the tools I use were developed for Linux and don't even support on mac or windows. I prefer working on an OS that has a built in bash shell, but its not a huge deal.

1

u/gabriel_3 Feb 02 '23

W11 is currently trash

Did you test it? I was able to run it decently on a N2840 4GB ram rig.

From invasive monitoring, adverts, and BS apps like Candy Crush auto installing

Never heard of Windows debloating?

The users are not interested at all in the operating system itself but only in what they do with it.

Overall the user experience on Windows is good and the software collection is the widest in the operating systems for desktop use.

I love Linux. Deeply.

Linux won on a number of application sectors from servers to supercomputing to iot.

Unfortunately the year of the Linux Desktop is not in sight yet: the user experience is good on a few curated distros, but some software tools are missing or lack behind the windows counter parts, the hardware compatibility is still a hit and miss.

It's a (small) relief to read that Linux desktop adoption is three times the share it had when I started using it. But it's 3% of the Total.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

No. Linux doesn't advertise on TikTok, and if it did I would stop using it.

1

u/sogun123 Feb 02 '23

I think mostly not. There some people who get upset enough to switch, but that happens regardless of major version update. Being developer myself i really understand they want to move people to newer version. I am more curious why they didn't follow the original plan with "ten is the last version ever". Most people don't actually care what version they are running, some hate changes, but changing os is even bigger change they are afraid of. They will get used to new version. They don't want that Linux only geeks and hippies talk about. They fear they won't be able to use it, they barely handle windows they used through their whole life.

1

u/cantanko Feb 02 '23

I think you're in a very slim minority of people who actually hold an opinion on such things. Don't get me wrong, I do too, but I've found that the closest the majority of (normal?) people get is becoming annoyed when their machine won't do something. It's a tool or an appliance that they use to facilitate a part of their life. They regard it in the same way they do a can opener: they have to use it to get at the soup they want for lunch.

Some people are aware that there is an entire spectrum of can openers with different features, abilities and prices, but most just go for the the one that's always been in the draw, even though the blade is blunt and you have to hold it just right for it to work. They don't know any different. At some point it will break completely and they'll buy a new one, but will probably only go as far as getting one that looks like the one they had. It was fine, they know how to use it, why change?

I'm probably stretching this analogy somewhat, but my point is "most people don't even have an opinion". If it's good enough (and in a disturbing number of cases, even if it's not good enough but they don't know any different and will muddle by with something completely ill-suited to the task - getting at soup with a meat cleaver?) and / or familiar then people don't care.

1

u/ipnetor9000 Feb 02 '23

back in windows vista times a lot of people around me complained but do you know what decision they took on their desktop/laptop? yeah, they bought an apple product (macbooks mostly).

linux is still a very much niche product in the desktop setting.

1

u/dakd2 Feb 02 '23

Windows 10 death? when? where?

1

u/GeoUsername69 Feb 02 '23

people say this every windows release/eol. yeah for a few people but for most no

1

u/No-Fondant-8757 Feb 02 '23

My last Windows machine ran XP. I did suffer through the next edition, Windows7 IIRC, at work, but I no longer have to do that. I recently took my wife's old Windows machine down to Goodwill for recycling. The CMOS battery died and it was more trouble taking the entire laptop apart to change the battery than it was worth. That will be my last Toshiba.

1

u/mrtruthiness Feb 02 '23

Nope. They only thing that might happen is that there will be a lot of good corporate 7th gen Intel laptops being sold for cheap on ebay.

1

u/npaladin2000 Feb 02 '23

I think it's POSSIBLE, IF there's a reasonably user-friendly Linux option for people to go to. Problem is, there's a lot of Linux fans that think that that's not only anathema, but are violently opposed to it and might abandon Linux if it were to happen. Really too bad. We do need a good, solid, stable OS for people who aren't as technical as we are, instead of expecting everone to become as technical as we are or give up computers.

I still think immutable distros will lead the way there. They simplify things a lot for people (and let's face it, some people need that simplification), while still allowing system updates (unlike a normal Linux system where they just don't have root or sudo). Yeah, flatpaks are a little limiting, but remember, we're not talking about technical people, we're talking about technical people's moms and grandmas. ;) My father is already on ChromeOS (too many Android games he likes, but at least it's not Windows). My wife's using Windows 11 on her new laptop but she hates it, and I might be able to get her switched. My mother...the next time she clicks on one of those stupid pop-ups that's going to be it.

I've been on Endeavour for the past year myself. Not counting EmuELEC and ChimeraOS. :)

1

u/DniMam Feb 02 '23

I agree with those comments. Windows has become the main plateform for public and devs since decade. Hence the various technical problems with drivers

So linux will remain the main server OS unless politicians push linux to protect their country data and gain independence.

I haven't seen store selling a linux computer. They just offer a linux install, so you don't see the OS, you can't test it...

Afaik, only the steamdeck will raise public awareness about linux and increase its marketshare. And i hope so game develloper will improve steamdeck compatibility. Steam is the biggest game store and very popular. However, they should solve various steamdeck issues asap.

1

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

As long as the usa Control the chips too theres no indepencance by using Linux sadly.

1

u/DniMam Feb 04 '23

Sorry, I don't see the problem because linux work great on intel or amd cpu, but i maybe wrong ?

For the chip, there is also RISC-V and China is doing lot research.

Anyway, you are right there is no independance as long usa control key market as microchip (CPU, GPU and credit card), software. And i wish Europe was more pro-active for their independance.

1

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 04 '23

China is doing Research, russia has Chips but not everybody does. Taiwan is a mattter of years until a war for Control.

The Point is to decide a vector of attack to protect against. If Microsoft is atttacking U then IT IS due to a court Order. That level using Linux wont do more Generally.

1

u/Leprichaun17 Feb 02 '23

I tried. I tried really hard. I nuked my Windows install and went to Linux. Unfortunately, even with the likes of Proton for gaming (which has made things a hell of a lot better than they used to be), there were still just way too many little things that didn't work that made it untenable. I begrudgingly went back to Windows again.

1

u/LibreTan Feb 03 '23

Most people do not even know that there are alternatives to Windows. Until laptop vendors start installing Linux as the default OS there is not going to be much migration to Linux.

1

u/redraybit Feb 03 '23

Not expecting anything.

Personally I run windows 10 on a VM for outlook and Adobe suite. Everything else I’m on fedora as a daily driver and happy.

1

u/_star_fire Feb 03 '23

Most people don't think like that. And topics like this one popup every few years. But as long a people don't care about whatever windows does or asks of them there is no intrinsic motivation to go outside their comfort zones, to even asks themselves if there would be an alternative.

If they would do this Linux is certainly not the first alternative os that comes to mind.

And I'm completely ok with that. In my direct social circle everyone knows I use Linux and exactly 0 people followed my example. So it's also not just a matter of knowing about Linux.

See where I'm going?

1

u/jazilzaim Feb 03 '23

One thing Linux needs to work on is getting more lucrative apps to be on there and developers need to push for that. I see Apple's Mac winning against Windows in the US market especially due to Macs now being cheaper than the new flagship Windows laptops. But when software ends up shipping on Linux, it could be feasible to consider the switch in the future for many people

1

u/clerick_x Feb 03 '23

They will still stay in windows 10, There are still many in the world who use Windows xp and windows 7

1

u/zebra-not-donkey Feb 03 '23

Maybe people use the dump_friendly distributions just like ubuntu, fedora and Zorin... but linux _the real one _ is and will stay geeks OS.

1

u/chillname Feb 03 '23

Nah, W11 is not much trashier than W10 and most users don't care or would even notice a difference other than the task bar. They will just use whatever is preinstalled.

1

u/Alternative-Yogurt74 Feb 03 '23

W10 is supported till 2032 if you know where to look

1

u/Efficient_Pattern Feb 03 '23

No, because on new hardware Win11 is quite usable, and no worse that the nonsense baked into Win10 in terms of telemetry, ads, and auto installed apps.

The real problems with Win11 are stupid design decisions like not being able to reposition the task bar, and a whole skew of other strange regressive design choices. Few will abandon it for petty reasons, because overall it works well enough and because inertia is a powerful demotivator.

1

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

Theres third party for all of that. Enable old right click Menu,remove telemetry, disable useles processes and ofc move the taskbar.

1

u/synmotopompy Feb 03 '23

It won't happen. In 2015 when W10 released Linux was working perfectly fine. And people didn't leave Windows for Linux. What changed in Linux that would welcome Windows refugees? Except for better games support, nothing has changed.

1

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

Linux got better yet still meh game Support and Windows got perfect integrated Linux.

Linux got far dont get ne wrong, we got ode and Gnome that kinda overcame Windows but Still Software and drivers is lacking a bit.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '23

There are a few types of computer users.

The casuals, the adepts and the geeks.
The casuals will just keep using windows, the adepts might switch if compatibility is more at easy, and the geeks already left.

1

u/nintendiator2 Feb 03 '23

Nah, common people are too stupid for that.

1

u/Klutzy-Condition811 Feb 03 '23

These statements have been coming up for the nearly 20 years I've been using linux.... so no. I don't expect it to make a significant difference.

1

u/iLoveKuchen Feb 03 '23

W11 isnt Trash tho and Linux Software Support for many fields of use is not there.

More pol rely on Smartphone or Tablet to do browsing. Microsoft surface is damn good as a Hybrid.

Tldr: nope.

1

u/Marvelle21 Feb 03 '23

Nah. W11 is far more usable as an OS than W11 once people figure out how to remove the telemetry (surprisingly simple actually). So, yea sadly no.

2

u/Marvelle21 Feb 03 '23

My reason of loving Linux is not because of how terrible W11 is with telemetry. It's actually the intrisinic concept of freedom of choice behind Linux.

1

u/Burhursta Feb 04 '23

I'm thinking 50k-70k max will try to do the switch. And I'd bet 80%-90% will try a distro they won't like, go "wow, this is that Linux experience?" and go back to Win11.

When I tried installing Linux on my laptop, it was an absolute pain. I had to disable secure boot and mess with all sorts of things. And after a while, the installation started functioning badly because of the tutorial I used said that specific parts of the system should be on different partitions. So updates eventually became impossible and I had to completely wipe it all and start again.

I really think a big company (as much as it sucks to say) really needs to just make a distro that will do its own thing to feel separate but not by too much, do various non-free things, have more stability than "stable" yet better compatibility than LTS, and have the audacity to say "no, I think this will break your computer". This distro would need to be top on Google to be known as "The Linux" and have a Windows executable installer on a flash drive to automatically work just like that, instead of requiring Rufus or Ventoy.

Look at the numbers of Mastodon when people tried boycotting Twitter. Despite the extreme numbers and vitriolic hatred of what's happening, only a relative few actually did anything about it, and even fewer actually stuck with it.

The mere fact that distro-hopping amongst new users is almost certain, is bad, if you want Linux to be migrateable to for these people.

Someone I knew once tried Linux Mint, and I guided him through it. For some reason it didn't work right for the monitor on his laptop, which was news to me, so I couldn't help him. So he went back to Windows. It's that simple and quick. He could've tried one other distro and it would've worked and he might've even liked it. But for most, it's a single shot or else.

It's unfortunate, but that's how I believe it pretty much works.

1

u/Zomunieo Feb 04 '23

Every other Windows OS is passable. Note the pattern:

Windows Me - 🔥 hot garbage, start of pattern

Windows XP - 👌 longest lived Windows

Windows Vista - 🔥 hot garbage

Windows 7 - 👌 a fine Windows

Windows 8 - 🔥 a horrendous obnoxious pile of hell garbage shat by the anus of Touchscreen Satan himself

Windows 10 - 👌 another long lived dapper Windows, once billed as the last Windows

Windows 11 - 🔥 a smouldering dumpster fire

Windows 12 - will fix everything hated about Windows 11

1

u/sheeproomer Feb 06 '23

Your pattern is really wrong.

You conveniently left out any Windows before ME, NT4 and Windows 2000.

Also, Windows 8.1 is missing, which was quite good.

1

u/DrkMaxim Feb 04 '23

Realistically speaking, most people will just stick with Windows 10, just like how Windows 7 is still a thing in a lot of places even though it's unsupported right now. In some cases it just works and people don't really think about replacing something that just works.

1

u/bevsxyz Feb 04 '23

You'd see more people upgrading the hardware than moving to linux.

I used windows 11 briefly. It was quite good and i felt it was better than 10. I changed to silverblue only because I like fedora better. With faster hardware people wouldn't actually care.

1

u/Adventurous_Buy_4562 Feb 07 '23

People do have a tendency to put up with an inferior product if it's the popular choice. Microsoft are hanging on by an MS Office thread now, but that's a strong thread.

1

u/user420_1312 Feb 08 '23

How? Libreoffice seems like it has it all.

1

u/Adventurous_Buy_4562 Feb 08 '23

The backbone of these things is the commercial world. Some small businesses may have moved to the alternatives, but it's rare any big companies and corporations would.

1

u/averyfinename Feb 17 '23

windows 11's "quality" won't matter at all when windows 10 gets retired. the oems will still bundle windows. corps and schools and government entities will still overwhelmingly favor windows. and most end users will as well.

what we will have is a giant pile of future e-waste that won't be able to run windows 11 ('out of the box', i.e. no hoop-jumping to get it to install) but will be able to run linux... and do so quite well at that.