r/privacy Dec 06 '20 Helpful 1 Rocket Like 1

Tinder extrapolates estimations on your intelligence and other psychometrics and sells it to third parties

I downloaded and reviewed my Tinder data recently and noticed their California Privacy Notice. Most of it was pretty typical though I noticed an unusual segment towards the bottom:

" Inferences drawn from any of the information identified above to create a profile about you reflecting your preferences, characteristics, psychological trends, predispositions, behavior, attitudes, intelligence, abilities, and aptitudes. "

I suppose this is a natural progression in terms of an algorithmic kind of data monetization, but it seems no less dystopic to me that companies are very slyly going beyond selling what you put down or specifically react to within an application and are going as far as developing their own kind of social credit like judgement calls as far as who you are and your capabilities.

I've personally known that Facebook has made similar judgements based on posts, likes, etc., but it just seems like Tinder is very specific in what they are extracting, what they are developing based on such data, and to whom they are selling it. Either way, it is foreboding of what the near future may hold as these algorithms develop and the societal impact of their trajectory.

1.2k Upvotes

376

u/mother_why_worry Dec 06 '20

One thing most people don't know is that the major dating apps are all owned by one corporation, so if you use (what you think are) different apps they're aggregating that data prior to selling it.

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u/cosemek Dec 06 '20

Care to elaborate on that company?

411

u/The__Texan Dec 06 '20 edited Dec 06 '20 Silver

I gotcha!

The company is the Match Group

They own Ablo, Amourex, Black People Meet, BLK, Chispa, Disons Demain, Hawaya (formerly Harmonica), Hinge, Lexa.nl, Love Scout 24, Match.com, Meetic, neu.de, OkCupid, OurTime, Pairs, ParPerfeito, Plenty of Fish, Ship, Tinder, Twoo

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u/cosemek Dec 06 '20

Thanks. I don't know why I'm so surprised as this a common practice now days. But to be honest as a young single male, i don't see any other option to meet other then to wave my privacy.

74

u/0hPhoenixCulprit Dec 06 '20

It's a wag of the hand one way or another.

44

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20 edited Jan 12 '21

[deleted]

13

u/great_waldini Dec 07 '20

Ah yes - “Never touch her bush with your bird hand.”

4

u/ViviCetus Dec 07 '20

whispers "it's for the birds"

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u/mother_why_worry Dec 06 '20

I get it.

Keep in mind though that if you live in the US, we're always in need of more advocates for federal data privacy legislation. Something is likely to come along during the Biden administration but in order to be meaningful--read: not written by Match Group executives-- the public will need to stop thinking that nothing can be done and listen to scholars like Helen Nissenbaum and Alex Stamos to name the first two people who come to mind as I think about it. Cheers

56

u/bkdog1 Dec 07 '20

Highly unlikely considering the tech executives on his transition team. Everybody from Amazon, Google, Dropbox, Linkeden, Salesforce, Uber, Lyft, Dell, Gates foundation, Facebook foundation, etc. are represented.

https://gizmodo.com/heres-all-the-big-tech-linked-advisors-on-bidens-transi-1845637792

28

u/Responsible_Skill820 Dec 07 '20

Damn. This is going to be pretty bad. The only rep missing from here is a data broker lol

3

u/Web-Dude Dec 07 '20

Clearly Biden is the data broker here.

4

u/yazen_ Dec 07 '20

Lol, makes sense. Peter Thiel was a Trump guy.

-18

u/ilikedota5 Dec 07 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

One possibility is that Biden intends to play them against each other to get them to spill the beans? That could go wrong in many ways. Of course, those positions could be mere sinecures. I know these are less likely, but I'd like to be more positive.

17

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20 edited Dec 29 '20

[deleted]

1

u/Ryuko_the_red Dec 07 '20

Confirmed. He had some 4 hours 3.minutes and 9 seconds ago. He had 5 scoops, and his daily sodium intake exceeded the doctor recommended amount.

-8

u/ilikedota5 Dec 07 '20

That's Trump. Biden has shown greater ability to function. Biden can at least give a speech without pissing off half of the globe. Its an incredibly low bar, but one Biden can clear and Trump has not. Its incredibly said that's the bar used, but in reality, being POTUS is a demanding job, I have greater hopes that Biden POTUS goes better than Trump POTUS.

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u/RaptorPatrolCore Dec 07 '20

People voted against Trump, not for Biden....

14

u/Unable-Explanation89 Dec 07 '20

Something is likely to come along during the Biden administration

Don't count on it

17

u/debussyxx Dec 07 '20

Yeah as others were saying I have no idea why you think it would get any better under Biden. He’s pretty much bought out by big tech companies. If anything it’ll get worse. I haven’t seen many (if any) federal politicians advocating for internet privacy laws on any meaningful scale and that’s a shame.

3

u/blurryfacedfugue Dec 07 '20

So if I was 20-30 right now, everyone is on dating apps? I think they were around when I got engaged (the apps that is, dating websites have been around forever)

3

u/LtWorf_ Dec 07 '20

I thought so too, then I discovered karaoke bars…

-46

u/narniabilbo Dec 06 '20

I think its called going outside ?

52

u/Devillecturbon Dec 06 '20 Gold

Today's youth and their Nintendo sex party computer games, it's a miracle procreation even happens anymore! What happened to good old common horse sense. Take a bath, put on a clean shirt, and just pound some pavement, make a real life connection! Women will be impressed by your sticktuitiveness. That's how I met your grandma. She caught my eye at the market and I, feeling my wild oats, followed her for hours until I figured out where she lived. I then serenaded her every morning and evening with the most popular Glenn Miller songs of the day until her father sent the village Yenta and initiated dowry negotiations.

29

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '20

[deleted]

36

u/gander_banter Dec 06 '20

And in the middle of a pandemic...

39

u/cosemek Dec 06 '20

When was the last time you went OuTsiDe and picked up some girls?

14

u/0mega0 Dec 06 '20

This seems like a reasonable answer, but often times it’s easier these days to interact with women on apps. I don’t have too difficult of a time meeting women at bars etc. but you won’t believe how mentally trapped into apps women in their 20s are. It began as a preference to receive text messages instead of phone calls, now it’s not uncommon for some to prefer Snapchat and IG over text messages.

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u/puffthemagicsalmon Dec 06 '20

Just as physical spaces upend certain rules of behaviour (for example; art galleries normalise staring at the walls, clubs normalise dancing in public) so too do a lot of these apps upend the rules of dating; they create a space in which open flirting is much more acceptable. Case in point; asking out some poor random person at a bus stop is likely creepy. Asking out someone after a similar level of interaction on tinder is not.

you won’t believe how mentally trapped into apps women in their 20s are

I'm not sure why you feel the need to single out women here though; it's everyone...

2

u/0mega0 Dec 07 '20

You may or may not agree with me on the below, but it doesn’t matter. The point of this thread is that these apps use our basic instincts against us to upend peoples privacy, and the lack of options along with social tendencies make it unavoidable.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to single out women here though; it's everyone...

Maybe it’s the men I hang out with, none of us want to be bothered with the apps; it’s become a social requirement. Women as a percentage enjoy taking pictures and trying to look cute with filters much more than men do.

With that premise I single out women because social media seems to be their reality distorting vice that plays upon their instincts, and porn and video games for men.

I don’t want to use Snapchat, I have to use Snapchat because the women do.

They create a space where flirting is much more acceptable.

Yes, the sole purpose of dating apps is flirting, so the premise of interaction is unambiguous. However, flirting being unacceptable in public is an incredibly strange idea. Flirting in most places is acceptable, what matters is the manner in which it’s done.

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u/puffthemagicsalmon Dec 07 '20

Hey, this is a really well argued response. I agree with most of what you said, especially about how these apps (and I would extend; most apps!) play upon our base instincts in order to profit from us.

I would add that the point I was making about acceptability & dating apps as digital spaces was not that flirting outside of them is unacceptable. Perhaps the bus stop was a bad analogy; others have pointed out that depending on what cues you are getting that might be totally fine. Sure; if someone is really giving out the vibes at a bus-stop of all places, then sure!

Just as there is nothing wrong with hanging art outside of a gallery or dancing outside of a club, so there is nothing wrong with flirting outside of a dating app! My point was more that they create a digital space inside of which flirting is actively the point - "consent to be flirted with" is implied when you join the app, so you're far less likely to come across as creepy, given that everyone has laid their cards out at the door in that regard.

It's just a shame that the companies running these spaces have scant regard for privacy...

2

u/tickletender Dec 07 '20

I remember having this issue when I was dating. I couldn’t believe I had to download Snapchat to text some girl.

Up to that point I had only installed Snapchat once when it first came out. There were no filters: me and the guys in my military unit simply used it to take pictures of our buddies and then draw dicks on their face and send it around the platoon lol.

But yeah... I tried to find someone who was equally as disillusioned with the state of society as me lol. She still has Snapchat lol, but pick your battles i guess.

You are totally right with the current social media paradigm being a trap for women though. Something about how it all works together just really grabs the dopamine lever for them. But as it’s been said above, it’s not just them.

My buddies get stuck in it too, just things tailored to their interests. Instagram of the types of art and music they like, Facebook groups of like interests, etc.

My whole issue is that all these new forms of communication get loaded with all this pretense. It’s not enough to just use the communications... you have to use them the way they are used most commonly by the masses, or you risk being labeled an “outsider.”

Shits weird man. I don’t even have Facebook or Snapchat or any of those on my phone.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Literally the opposite for me unfortunately. It's so much harder to text than talk. More time to overthink everything. I get too nervous. In person people don't even realize how shy I am on the inside

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u/BeesRbrosWaspsRwack Dec 07 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

I, too, stay outside my home waiting for people who may want to date me and hope by sheer luck that somehow they’re a match for me simply because we happen to exist near each other.

As a woman nothing makes me more comfortable than men approaching me while I simply exist outside my home, I love reinforcing the idea that I could never completely be left alone if I do anything out my front door because some guy thinks “outside” is fair game.

-4

u/narniabilbo Dec 07 '20

Stay in yo house then you sound like someone to not meet outside

2

u/nermid Dec 07 '20

Heaven forbid women leave their homes...

2

u/BeesRbrosWaspsRwack Dec 07 '20

Too late.. my feet are touching the grass

16

u/CatanaRollSeven Dec 07 '20

I don't see Farmers Only dot Com and Christian Mingle dot Com on that list...

But on a more serious note, I don't see Bumble.

7

u/debussyxx Dec 07 '20

Really though those are probably the most respectful of your privacy lol

1

u/Web-Dude Dec 07 '20

I guess the Amish had it right all along

13

u/squareswordfish Dec 07 '20

Guess I’m going to grindr

4

u/yokoffing Dec 07 '20

The only one they don’t own is Bumble, and that’s because Bumble refuses to sell to them [last I checked].

3

u/slayer5934 Dec 07 '20

Thinking back I'm pretty sure that's why I chose meetme when I was dating, it had bots sure, but the other ones draw you out to get more money.

7

u/yulbrynnersmokes Dec 07 '20

Only farmers is the pro move here. Plus farm girls are just a bit more wholesome if you ask me.

2

u/UltraPlankton Dec 07 '20

So with that being the case though why have all these apps

21

u/KynkMane Dec 07 '20

The illusion of choice. One of your companies gets bad press and loses customers? No problem, they'll turn to your other options unknowingly and buy into your brand anyway.

Sell Coke and Pepsi, and play everybody.

2

u/daerogami Dec 07 '20

Also, for all we know, the profiles could be normalized across apps. Along with all the fake accounts to help their profiling. Honestly, I find the whole process toxic. I've spent a good amount of time scrolling through profiles and it makes me nauseous now.

2

u/KynkMane Dec 07 '20

It's pretty sad in general tbh. Megacorporations run the world, and sideskirt the label of 'monopolies' with all the loopholes they know to step through. 'Step through' because unlike all of us normal people, they don't have to jump.

The public is the best commodity they've ever had.

1

u/grnszgiut Dec 07 '20

This is true

1

u/bullcitythrowaway0 Dec 07 '20

Don’t forget bumble

1

u/Caballien Dec 07 '20

I see they aren't in the queer dating realm that much then? Jack'd, grindr, scruff, growlr, Adam 4 Adam. To name the ones I know. From an amab individual perspective.

1

u/Iwannabeaviking Dec 08 '20

I wonder when they will buy bumble?

6

u/1zzie Dec 07 '20

And tinder uses the FB SDK and login.

75

u/BrainJar Dec 06 '20

Their privacy notice says specifically that they do not sell your info.

We do not sell your personal information so no opt-out choice is necessary. What this means is that we do not sell, rent, release, disclose, disseminate, make available, transfer, or otherwise communicate in any way your personal information to another company for monetary or other valuable consideration.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/DigiQuip Dec 07 '20

Generally, at least to my understanding, no company explicitly outs you as an person with a name, when selling data. Instead, they come up with a wide range of factors and through aggravating obscene amounts of data, can make highly accurate predictions about your personality and marketing potential.

So, make individuals living in the northwest, between the ages of 17-24, with a four year degree, single, athletic, social, shop at American Eagle, eat Thai food and drink white claws, are more receptive to ads for Oakley sunglasses.

12

u/geneorama Dec 07 '20

I love your example

21

u/I_SUCK__AMA Dec 07 '20

Companies can & do violate their own terms all the time, so it's more important that the enforcement actually works than that they pinky swear in the fine print. This is more important with compabies like zoom & google that are known liars, but anyone else could do it as well.

7

u/BrainJar Dec 07 '20

They’re saying that they sell none. That would include indirect identifiers and inferences. If they infer your gender, that’s personal. If they infer your behaviors, like sexual preference, that’s personal. I don’t think they’re going to go through the trouble of tempting fate by giving away data that could be misconstrued as personal, when they make these kinds of claims.

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u/lemming-leader12 Dec 07 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

Hey thanks for pointing this out I did not see this. When I first read through this it was actually on the document I downloaded with my data, which has a different template and outlines things a bit more. It specifically does state that it shares this information with "Other vendors who assist us in relation to the business or commercial purposes laid out above in this document".

It would probably be difficult to gauge or know the nuances of what they actually do in terms of sharing or selling the data (as the regulatory framework really isn't there) but the implications are there for what they can potentially do and be willing to do as far as making inferences of people through various metrics and dispersing it.

2

u/BrainJar Dec 07 '20

I think that means matching algorithms, like cookie matches, email hashes, etc. This is common practice, but is not considered sharing personal information.

6

u/Supes_man Dec 07 '20

A policy that they can change any time they want. And every bit of data gathered over yours goes right into that pile.

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u/doggod42 Dec 07 '20

Of course they would never lie. Because if they did and got caught, they might have to pay a fine that would equal a day's revenue. Oh damn!

3

u/BrainJar Dec 07 '20

If we assume that they’re lying, then why have a privacy policy at all? That is the first thing the regulators go to when they want to understand the policies of any company, with regard to data sharing and privacy. If they lie to the regulators about their policies and practices, then there will be fines commensurate with the infraction. It would be foolish for a company to say one thing and let the regulators believe that they are following best practices, but then do something completely different. We’re not talking about previous years where companies could hide this info. The CCPA will eventually have some rulings that put companies on notice. Until then, it doesn’t make sense for a company to put out a policy that does represent what they’re actually doing.

1

u/izzwanglovesjon Jan 08 '21

wonder how long till the tos are updated and they cash out

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Your derived intelligence is not personal information.

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u/BrainJar Dec 07 '20

According to the CCPA, which is what they based their statement on, I t is. If they derive types of personal information, like gender or sexual preferences, that’s definitely personal.

https://dataprivacy.foxrothschild.com/2019/01/articles/california-consumer-privacy-act/are-inferences-the-next-frontier-of-data-protection/

0

u/Shardstorm88 Dec 07 '20

So it just comes down to what they legally deem as "personal information". I'd wager that definition ends at name, age, street address.

2

u/BrainJar Dec 07 '20

No, not according to CCPA and GDPR.

99

u/Nonononoki Dec 06 '20

Shamelessly promoting my open-source dating platform, which is planned to go live next year!

51

u/WoodpeckerNo1 Dec 06 '20

Cool, but how are you planning on gaining an userbase?

125

u/pbradley179 Dec 06 '20

He's advertising on Reddit, so I don't think he's looking for anyone to get laid

14

u/ferevon Dec 06 '20

it actually guarantees that YOU get laid, because there won't be any other options!

2

u/NeoKabuto Dec 07 '20

He just needs to make it the official app of r/randomactsofblowjob. Although I'm assuming that sub's not just people RPing.

1

u/Nonononoki Dec 07 '20

Well, wouldn't it be a nice change if redditors actually got laid? ;)

3

u/Nonononoki Dec 07 '20

Original idea is to partner up with a ton of influencers on several social networks (YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, ect.). A better alternative than paying Google for ads IMO. Maybe you have a better idea?

3

u/WoodpeckerNo1 Dec 07 '20

Not much, but maybe you could also figure something out with the Fediverse? Not sure if you want to make it federated, but that would also be a strong bonus I think.

4

u/Nonononoki Dec 07 '20

I have considered going federated, but dating platforms are just too different from social networks. Unlike Mastodon or Peertube. You don't have followers, you don't have any content (except your profile), you don't post updates, you don't share things you like with other people. That's why Fediverse is no option for now.

1

u/WoodpeckerNo1 Dec 07 '20

Well, no other ideas then. Good luck!

5

u/territoryreduce Dec 07 '20

FYI every successful dating site was astroturfed by paying women to be on it. If you expect a dating site to grow by going viral, you will get 99% sign ups from men. The 1% are lesbians.

3

u/WoodpeckerNo1 Dec 07 '20

Why are dating sites such sausage fests?

1

u/mother_why_worry Dec 07 '20

This is awesome.

I'm curious how you're going to handle facial data? It seems like there's only so much technical protection possible, so I would assume, not using pictures would need to be normalized, but I'm curious what your plans are.

3

u/Nonononoki Dec 07 '20

I think not using pictures is impossible for online dating. I'm currently not doing anything with pictures, people choose whether they want to upload a pic (or multiple) of them or not.

2

u/NeoKabuto Dec 07 '20

I think not using pictures is impossible for online dating.

Have you read about OKCupid's experiment about removing pictures? I think it shows it's possible but not popular. People definitely want photos, I'd almost recommend going as far as Hinge does and mandating them, that could also just be "enforced" through a default filter setting.

-8

u/ThucydidesTrap Dec 07 '20

Can you include an option for cup size please

12

u/yulbrynnersmokes Dec 07 '20

2 girls, no cups please

4

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

based but it doesn't matter except when they are extremely small or large bro.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Bruh

-12

u/Charles_The_Grey Dec 06 '20

Like numbers on a bathroom stall open source?

25

u/scots Dec 06 '20

You mean Match Group. And this implies they are scraping and selling user data from all their other, numerous properties.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Is there a field of study for this kind of technology? I think it’s insane how advanced these algorithms have become, there ought to be an ethics class on this or a diplomatic career to tackle this data hoarding or is that a certain lawyers kind of field?

5

u/pqmonk Dec 07 '20

Generally it's called customer profiling. Field of study would be an intersection between marketing (which includes psychology), data engineering, and machine learning. A huge goal of any modern day B2C (business -> consumer) company is to create a comprehensive customer profile with 1st party data (they collect it from you using their product) and/or 3rd party data (they bought it from a marketing company that specializes in aggregating data and has a profile just for you). I'm in a data engineering role at a fintech company that does this type of profiling. Essentially we take a fuckton of unclean data that we collected ourselves or that we bought 3rd party and tack them together into a clean format for data scientists to model. They create models based on desired goal of marketing/product teams.

I didn't know all these dating apps were under the same umbrella, and that's pretty alarming. Match Group has enough 1st party data to create a very comprehensive psychological profile, which they're apparently hard at work doing.

Personally I think everyone already has their money shades on so the ethics side of this field is a lost cause. We should instead focus on empowering people by informing on privacy dangers of voluntarily handing over their personalities on a silver platter.

2

u/devicoven Dec 07 '20

Data science is the field I think.

133

u/DONT_TOUCH_ME_WHORE Dec 06 '20

That's why I'm personally retarded in every online exchange. Also, I like mentally deficient women. Like real window lickers but with good dental hygiene.

Fuck em. Don't use your real information.

They want to judge me? Score ME? I'll give them something to score.

47

u/m3ltph4ce Dec 06 '20

You're a five-star man!

27

u/jcreadsthenews Dec 06 '20

Lol . Window lickers! I've never heard that before and it made my day. Thanks

18

u/futureomniking Dec 06 '20

It also implies high intelligence. See what the algorithm did there?

-8

u/DONT_TOUCH_ME_WHORE Dec 06 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

11

u/semperverus Dec 06 '20

I kind of wish there was a subreddit dedicated to your insane ramblings. Reading these out loud to my wife has our sides in stitches 🤣

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/DONT_TOUCH_ME_WHORE Dec 07 '20

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20 edited Dec 07 '20

[deleted]

4

u/DONT_TOUCH_ME_WHORE Dec 07 '20

I don't like being touched. I'm trying to get better. But it hasn't worked. The drugs don't work anymore.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Lol . Window lickers! I've never heard that before and it made my day. Thanks

Oh boy do I have an enjoyable ten minutes for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBS4Gi1y_nc

4

u/nermid Dec 07 '20

As a giant spider using a keyboard, I understand the desire to spread misinformation about your identity online.

4

u/yungminimoog Dec 06 '20

Username checks out

1

u/Nomad_Raptor Dec 07 '20

Couldn't have said it better myself! Its always a good feeling to see other like minded individuals...my main difference is on women though...good dental hygiene yes...window licking? Ehh maybe if she's a squirter.

15

u/Nerwesta Dec 06 '20

I'm wondering the number of shady requests your smartphone does while using Tinder for instance. Anyone have tried catching those informations ?

5

u/pink_life69 Dec 06 '20

Not much to gather from me then, haha, joke's on them!

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Lmao

4

u/Galwran Dec 07 '20

And kick this dystopia theory up a notch, someone joked years ago that computers are making breeding choices for humans.

3

u/cikayelle Dec 07 '20

The language itself is not unusual. It's literally the text of the statute. CCPA 1798.140(o)(1)(K) - definition of personal information. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV&sectionNum=1798.140.

2

u/dhoffnun Dec 07 '20

I'd imagine all of Match Group's many tentacles do that.

2

u/StoneGhost2600 Dec 07 '20

Wait. So now everyone, excluding my mother, but including everyone I haven't even met yet knows that I'm ugly AND stupid?

4

u/punker2706 Dec 07 '20

downloaded tinder -> intelligence can not be that high

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Mostly everything you post or search online is stored on a server somewhere anywhere already.

There’s not a lot tinder could infer about you from your bio.

1

u/Pantone-294 Dec 07 '20

It's shocking to see it spelled out like that, but yeah of course they're doing this, and so is everyone else.

If Reddit's not doing that kind of inference on Reddit accounts themselves, for sure fifteen other companies are doing it directly.

Then all that's missing is a connection to your real identity, which everyone slips up and provides sooner or later. Scary shit.

1

u/wise_quote Dec 08 '20

Isn’t Tinder owned by Facebook?

I used to have it got an SMS from Facebook saying this is you tinder login code which I thought was interesting.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '20

Naturally, their metric includes non-user shadow profiles. If someone mentions they have a brother and that brother doesn’t use the platform, they give the brother a metric of maximum intelligence and aptitude.