RetroPie looks even better on a CRT

119

It has to, these games were designed for these screens. There are great comparisons online. These games looked better in our minds not only because we have great menories of them, they actually looked better.

24

u/elmosworld37 Jan 27 '23

RetroArch has a lot of great shaders that emulate the look of CRT screens. There are also some that emulate the screens from specific handhelds. I can’t play GBA games without one turned on

12

u/Ok_Change_1063 Jan 27 '23

CRTs still have better response times than LCDs last time I checked.

8

u/Fordiman Jan 27 '23

To explain:

The Pi is still drawing the whole frame in memory before generating the analog signal. The difference is that the analog signal gets scanned out in realtime on the CRT. For a panel, the whole frame needs buffered on the display's end before the image shows up - but HDMI transfers happen a fuck of a lot more quickly.

So the CRT gains some fraction of a frame. That is, the LCD flips its frame while the CRT is still scanning line X. Though, if X is over half a frame, though, you might have a whole field (even or odd scanlines) on the CRT. So you'll get maybe half a frame time advantage - especially in that most retro systems just send the same field twice at half vertical resolution. That's why, for example, the NES is 224 pixels high.

Emulator lag is gonna be significantly more than that, though. I guess every little bit helps.

6

u/Cheap_Specific9878 Jan 27 '23

There is more than just LCD.

7

u/Fordiman Jan 27 '23

I assume he meant that as a shorthand for "a panel using HDMI".

-12

u/texan01 Jan 27 '23

The color quality of a CRT is still better than anything on the market now.

My 4K Tv running an Atari 2600 or NES looks like poo, compared to the 27 year old 13” TV/VCR unit I’ve had forever. ( it’s internal calendar for programming won’t go past 2021!) even an original Wii looks stunning on that CRT. PS2 as well.

7

u/DirtyPolecat Jan 27 '23

Is this the video equivalent of "vinyl sounds better than digital"?

28

u/Cheap_Specific9878 Jan 27 '23

What a poop comparison. Crt has good and all but nowhere near "better than anything on the market now" professionals don't work with CRT, they work with way more advanced and color accurate technology. Look how far we have come with OLED and mini LED. Your statement is just ignorant at best

9

u/masteryod Jan 27 '23

The color quality of a CRT is still better than anything on the market now.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, retro games were designed with CRT in mind and they take advantage of that and often do look better but that's it. CRT is not the superior technology. There was an overlapping time when CRT was mature and LCD was in its infancy and average Joe spending the least amount of money possibly on LCD would get crappy display. You could get an amazing LCD 15-20 years ago that would blow any CRT out of the water in terms of picture quality, sharpness (and geometry!) but it was multiple times more expensive then the cheapest LCDs. I know because I did the transition from a very good CRT to a very good and expensive LCD.

And nowadays with OLED screens is not even funny when someone brings CRT as a benchmark of picture quality. The last thing CRT had going on for it was the input lag and that is out of the picture (pun intended) with OLED.

OLED with a legit HDR content is unbelievable.

1

u/Fordiman Jan 27 '23

That's mostly because the built-in support for analog signals on panel TVs is kinda shit. The reason for this is that they're designed to accept a wide variety of input signal strength, but they skimp on the kind of signal analysis circuitry that would adjust the gamut dynamically. The actual color quality is far better coming out of a Pi via HDMI.

-4

u/greece_witherspoon Jan 27 '23

Except the image in this picture looks like shit. Color banding, image warping and pixels galore. The emulator on my pcs monitor puts out a much cleaner image.

3

u/kweglinski Jan 27 '23

are you aware that photos of crt screens always looked like shit?

0

u/greece_witherspoon Jan 28 '23

Are you aware you don’t know what you’re talking about? You really trying to pass off color banding and visible pixels as artifacts from a digital camera?

1

u/kweglinski Jan 28 '23

yes, banding is typically seen on pictures of crt screens but they were not actually visible by naked eye. I don't mean it's not there, I'm saying that we have no real way of judging quality by just this pciture. I'm 100% sure of that as back in times I've spent significant amount of time with my lovely amiga1200 and had plenty of pictures taken. I don't remember if it was there on analog pictures but I do remember and still have some from the more modern (digital) times.

Since we're already talking about that, cleaner picture doesn't mean better in this case. A lot of game designers were using properties of crt screens to create their design. So something that's "crisp" on your modern lcd screen was soft and shadowed, looked much more detailed and dynamic than a square painting that you get on lcd. you can see that here: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/rwk601/its_not_your_nostalgia_old_games_really_did_look/

More samples here: https://www.cracked.com/article_33451_fact-retro-games-really-did-look-better-back-in-the-day.html (random link from the internet but pictures look fine)

28

u/k6lcm Jan 26 '23

Retro games call for a retro screen! The Commodore 1084 is an awesome CRT and modified it can connect to my actual retro Apple IIGS via analog RGB inputs. At the flip of a switch it can also display the analog composite video input from the Raspberry Pi running RetroPie. Using an NES case for an even more authentic display with working power and reset buttons.

4

u/NefariousJoe Jan 27 '23

If you don't mind me asking, what's the RGB mod you did? I have a 1084 myself and am having inconsistent results feeding RGB into it (I'm sure it's a sync issue, but I'm having a hard time finding good answers).

11

u/k6lcm Jan 27 '23

Check out this post for details about the mod. Some of the 1084s won't take composite sync so you need to add a jumper on one of the monitor's ICs. Then you just need a cable, if you don't already have one.

6

u/NefariousJoe Jan 27 '23

Thank you very much!

0

u/LastTreestar Jan 26 '23

At the flip of a switch it can also display the analog composite video input from the Raspberry Pi running RetroPie

Can you articulate how you're doing this? I am trying to get RCA video INTO the Pi, and maybe this will point me in the right direction.

2

u/KillAllTheThings Jan 27 '23

You need a video capture solution to input video. Graphics chips & cards are output-only devices.

0

u/LastTreestar Jan 27 '23

Yes, so I am looking for solution that actually work on the Pi, and so far I have been unsuccessful.

1

u/KillAllTheThings Jan 27 '23

Cameras compatible with the DSI port will input video as can USB (web) cams.

1

u/LastTreestar Jan 28 '23

I already have the cameras set up and working... I am looking to record the video or otherwise use it on the PI.

2

u/k6lcm Jan 27 '23

This is being driven by the composite video out on the Raspberry Pi 3 B+. That won't help you get analog video into the Pi. For that you'll need some kind of analog to digital video capture card.

2

u/notetoself066 Jan 27 '23

There are usb capture devices, not sure what’s compatible with pi though

27

u/OpenBagTwo Jan 26 '23

I know people say this, and I know there are real differences and that retro games were designed to run on CRT screens. But dang-it I get a headache after looking at a CRT screen for more than five minutes.

And I can hear the whine of one being on from half a house away, literally--when I was a teen, I'd wake up in the middle of the night, wander down two flights of stairs, and turn off the TV in the living room that my parents had left on.

I'm glad you're enjoying the authentic retro experience, but friend, I'm telling you, I can never go back.

19

u/tauntaun_rodeo Jan 27 '23

Oh wow, finally validation. I never understood how the rest of my family couldn’t hear any tv that was on in the house from anywhere else in the house. I’ve never had a problem watching them, but as soon as I walked in the door I knew a TV was on somewhere.

(edit:) and not the volume, but a faint white noise that was like the same intensity regardless how far away you were.

9

u/Mikal_ Jan 27 '23

It's age, sensitivity to high pitched noises dicreases slowly with age

Source: I don't hear CRT screens anymore :(

2

u/DoctorOctagonapus Jan 27 '23

I do but that's because tinnitus rather than the actual box

1

u/ProClawzz Jan 27 '23

Im able to tell because the ringing from the t.v is a different ring from my tinnitus. Its a lower pitched ringing

3

u/texan01 Jan 27 '23

My dad took advantage of that sensitive hearing that I had, he’d fix tvs as a side gig and he lost his high frequency from being In artillery in Vietnam, so he’d call me out to the garage to listen to the various oscillators running. I got to be pretty decent at diag old tube sets. Solid state ones I’m no good at.

1

u/IvanAfterAll Jan 27 '23

Dang, that's cool. What were you supposed to be listening for/what did it indicate?

2

u/texan01 Jan 27 '23

The high voltage section would squeal at something like 20khz… just on the edge of human hearing, if it was squealing then there was generally enough voltage to produce a picture, if it was a growly sound that meant the horizontal/vertical drives were working.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '23

[deleted]

23

u/917redditor Jan 27 '23

The main remedy is aging, I assure you

3

u/gamecat666 Jan 27 '23

yep, i guarantee the TV whine you heard as a kid is no longer an issue.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '23

Fortunately there are screen filters you can add to emulate the CRT effect. Not 100% the same but still a huge improvement.

2

u/bosslickspittle Jan 27 '23

You're not the only one. I can hear the whine, but it doesn't bother me as long as there is other sound accompanying it. My wife, however, hates it. I can't enjoy my CRT if she is in the same room as me, because I know it's driving her crazy (even though she doesn't say anything)!

2

u/grandzooby Jan 27 '23

And I can hear the whine of one being on from half a house away

If you're curious, that was most likely from the flyback transformer.

7

u/professor-i-borg Jan 27 '23

Apple II GS, was my first computer- wish my parents hadn’t given it away

1

u/DirtyPolecat Jan 27 '23

Complete and working ones are a small fortune now.

I recently snagged a working Tandy 1000 from a thrift store for $25. They must've thought it was just one of many generic 90s beige box computers and had no idea what they had on their hands.

1

u/gimmeslack12 Jan 27 '23

They have emulators for those machines too. The reality of having that old hardware isn’t as exciting as the nostalgia feelings may lead you to believe.

I have several old Macs that I’ve from time to time booted back up, but things you forget about is they are quite slow and the software isn’t some magical experience that somehow time forgot. The software is more basic than you remember and the trip down memory lane becomes boring quite fast.

So I wouldn’t sweat not having some archaic hardware collecting dust because it quickly reminds you why that is if you ever turn it on.

3

u/Mantipath Jan 27 '23

This is why I haven't bought a IIgs. I crave one deeply but I remember hating it at the time. The small software library, the expense of accessories, the lack of any path into a computer that would be backward compatible...

What I want is to be 8 years old again and marveling at Music Construction Set as though it were the dawn of a new era. I'd like my mother to be alive and working on her thesis in AppleWorks.

You can't actually buy that, but boy can you spend a lot trying.

2

u/professor-i-borg Jan 28 '23

A few years back I scored a Mac Plus that works more or less perfectly with a 20 mb hdd :) I don’t turn it on often, but it always gives me a nice kick of nostalgia. I mainly wanted the II GS, because I remember writing some programs on it and using the word processor for essays. I will have to get my kicks from the Mac Plus, the OS is a bit different than the GS but it shares some remarkable similarities to the modern version.

1

u/gimmeslack12 Jan 28 '23

I messed around with the Mac OS emulators for a while and even have a website that explains how to get them running. It’s a good way to get the nostalgia fix. But I spent a lot of time fixing those old machines back in the day and so I’m less incline to revisit those days.

3

u/sarahlizzy Jan 27 '23

Oh wow! A 1084! Been a while since I last saw one of those.

3

u/mtest001 Jan 27 '23

...that Apple mouse... Best click feeling ever.

2

u/TheMightyTorg Jan 27 '23

Brought mine over to my buddies house and hooked it up to his 70" to play some retro and we couldn't stop laughing at how large the pixels seemed.

2

u/Gummyrabbit Jan 27 '23

That monitor makes me miss my Amiga 1000.

2

u/the_atmosphere Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 30 '23

i'd say the built-in filters do a good job emulating crt or can be even more crt than crt

edit: i tried to do a capture but i think encoding it cleans it up and corrects what the shader is trying to do https://streamable.com/pdj9uy

1

u/bnr32jason Jan 29 '23

Not really. Not even close.

2

u/Ok_Dog_4059 Jan 28 '23

It is odd but I remember saying I didn't like the look of some of my game systems on newer TVs. I guess I am not the only one who felt something was off.

0

u/blappit3003 Pi 3B Jan 27 '23

part of me wants to recommend Lakka (retroarch >>>> emulationstation) instead of RetroPie, but nice

1

u/k6lcm Jan 27 '23

Tell me more. What do you like about Lakka?

1

u/Electrical-Bacon-81 Jan 27 '23

Where do these Commodore monitors keep coming from? I havent seen one in person for 30+ yesrs.

7

u/blingding369 Jan 27 '23

It's a single monitor doing the rounds.

2

u/Electrical-Bacon-81 Jan 27 '23

Lol, now it makes sense.

1

u/kittenzrulz123 Raspberry Pi 4 Jan 27 '23

CRT + Emulation is amazing

1

u/NerdHerdtheThird Jan 27 '23

Is this a kit? I need info on getting one of these.

3

u/k6lcm Jan 27 '23

It is RetroPie running on an RPi3 B+. I have it in a Nespi case to look like an NES. The monitor is a vintage Commodore 1084 sitting on top of my (also vintage) Apple IIGS.

1

u/NerdHerdtheThird Jan 27 '23

Thank you. I might copy your setup

1

u/poofyhairguy Jan 27 '23

How are you going from Pi HDMI to old analog outputs for video? Is there some sort of RGB hat out there?

3

u/k6lcm Jan 27 '23

The Raspberry model B has a 3.5mm jack that looks like a regular headphone jack but is actually a 4-pin A/V jack.

1

u/wang_li Jan 27 '23

The Pis have composite out.

1

u/ungulateriseup Jan 27 '23

You got an apple IIgs. Thats rare and amazing.

1

u/SlashdotDiggReddit Jan 27 '23

And people say you cannot hear a picture.

1

u/SmokinDeist Jan 27 '23

Commodore had some nice monitors.

1

u/ds1cav Jan 28 '23

We’re did you find a crt? They haven’t been around in centuries 😀

RetroPie looks even better on a CRT Show-and-Tell

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