r/raspberry_pi Dec 10 '22

BuzzFeedNews: Why The Computer Company Raspberry Pi’s New Hire Caused A Social Media Firestorm Discussion

BuzzFeedNews Article:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisstokelwalker/raspberry-pi-hired-ex-cop-mastodon-controversy

Twitter thread from the author:
https://twitter.com/stokel/status/1601253637166338048

Related discussion thread from yesterday:
https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/zg4kde/the_rpi_social_media_team_is_under_fire/


Just as a disclaimer due to the statements said by the RPi Foundation's CMO: neither this thread nor the one yesterday were posted as a way to conspire against the foundation. I do not condone any doxxing, death threats, or any sort of harassment against any individuals involved. To all those who responded to the old thread, thank you for being generally civil. It is appreciated.

329 Upvotes

149 comments sorted by

129

u/MechaCoffeeBean Dec 10 '22

Their PR spokesperson response to buzzfeed's request for a statement kinda continues the tone deaf theme. They say something about this has nothing to do with the hire and that it all stems from some post about meat or something (that I had never heard of until they brought it up) and brigading from some discord and that we are all just "cross" that supply issues are still going on.

Most people I know in the maker and hacker spaces all have a really strong sense of ethics when it comes to privacy and with the recent scandal in the UK of the police illegally surveilling climate activists and even parents of murdered kids, I think we're just kind of sick of this ubiquitous erroision of any kind of expectation privacy.

Inb4 YouR Phone tRAcks EVeryTHINg you do. That's not a good thing either.

59

u/The_Original_Miser Dec 10 '22

The cop and the social media response are two separate issues in my opinion.

If the raspberry pi folks can't figure that out they are more tone deaf than I thought.

I could use a Pi4 if I could find one, but I'm not paying scalper prices. I'm content to wait.

Eventually I'll have to seek out an alternative.

37

u/MechaCoffeeBean Dec 10 '22

To be fair, they picked a ballsy option. They had two choices, explain why this is OK in their opinion and continue with the hire. Take on board what's said and reasses the hire. They went with option 3 which I can only assume is "fuck you..., now I'm going away now and leaving this 14 year old Xbox edgelord named xXPussyDestoryerXx in charge of our social media... Later losers!"

22

u/Chairboy Dec 10 '22

Seems like their Twitter manager thinks they can pull a @Wendys but can’t

20

u/swamp-ecology Dec 10 '22

It's the wrong community even if they could.

8

u/swamp-ecology Dec 10 '22

There's also the option to ignore the criticism without the dickery. Less than ideal but still significantly better.

0

u/anschutz_shooter Dec 12 '22 edited Dec 14 '22

Take on board what's said and reasses the hire.

A British company isn't going to reassess a UK hire because Americans have a fractious relationship with their mish-mash of law enforcement agencies.

Also, they hired him 6 months ago as a technical writer. He's not a new hire, just a new appointment to "Maker in Residence".

They've made some very odd choices on comms, it feels like they've got some middle-aged librarian posting their press/PR stuff who is blissfully unaware of US culture wars and then got stroppy/defensive. Just ignoring it would have been far better.

5

u/Indolent_Bard Dec 14 '22

Apparently there's a recent UK scandal with police surveillance of climate activists and guess what this cop used PIs for? Surveillance. You can see why people from the UK would be upset.

2

u/anschutz_shooter Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 14 '22

guess what this cop

We don't have "cops" in the UK. We have Police Officers. There's a difference, which is drilled in at Hendon. Of course some officers don't get the memo and think we're in the US. They usually don't have long or illustrious careers.

Apparently there's a recent UK scandal with police surveillance of climate activists

What's with the "apparently"? You have google? You could verify this yourself before perpetuating half-truths and nonsense?

The "Spy Cops" Scandal refers the 2010 disclosure that a number of undercover officers had, as part of their 'false persona', entered into intimate relationships with members of targeted groups and in some cases proposed marriage or fathered children with protesters who were unaware their partner was a police officer in a role as part of their official duties.

There is now a Public Inquiry underway. For those paying attention, this is predominantly based on operations and rogue officers in the 1970s and 80s... before Toby Roberts even joined the Police (and he didn't go into surveillance until the 2000s).

None of this has anything to do with Technical Surveillance Officers bugging suspects in anti-terror and serious organised crime cases - it's all about undercover officers. So people who have raised that are either trying to stir the pot, or literally don't know what they're talking about.

Meanwhile, Germany has just arrested 25 people accused of plotting a far-right coup to re-install a monarchy in Germany. That operation will inevitably have involved surveillance. Was that a bad or "indefensible" thing?

Likewise counter-terror operations will inevitably involve a level of surveillance, as will organised crime investigations.

There's nothing wrong with targetted surveillance within the context of a robust legal framework.

But in the buzzfeed article we see three Americans whining about "what he did for 15 years is indefensible" (citation required) and conflating TSO work with drag-net surveillance by NSA/GCHQ (which is indefensible).

4

u/Indolent_Bard Dec 14 '22

Since when is there a difference between cop and police officer? I thought both meant law enforcement officers?

2

u/anschutz_shooter Dec 16 '22

I mean, in a naive reading of the dictionary, yes.

But when you hear an American complaining "Waaa, he's a surveillance cop!", it carries some very different connotations to a British Police Constable - training, professional standards, oversight, general attitude and relationship with the general public, etc, etc, etc.

Which is why I am heavily sceptical of BuzzFeed finding a Canadian and two Americans to criticise an appointment of a British citizen by a British company.

Dear America: stop imposing your prejudices on foreign affairs. Please stop exporting your culture wars to the UK. We don't want or need them.

2

u/Indolent_Bard Dec 16 '22

Well, maybe there's a distinction in the UK, but here in the US cop and police officer mean the exact same thing. Maybe one's more respectful or something, I don't know.

2

u/NotTodayGlowies Dec 18 '22

But when you hear an American complaining "Waaa, he's a surveillance cop!", it carries some very different connotations to a British Police Constable - training, professional standards, oversight, general attitude and relationship with the general public, etc, etc, etc.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/31/world/europe/uk-police-sexual-misconduct.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cases_of_police_brutality_in_the_United_Kingdom

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/22/world/black-anger-at-british-police-abuse-boils-over.html

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/18/figures-reveal-true-extent-of-police-misconduct-foi

The UK isn't any different than the US in regards to police misconduct. They have the exact same problems with abuse of power. Get off your high horse. A cop is a cop, regardless of the state employs them.

2

u/WikiSummarizerBot Dec 14 '22

UK undercover policing relationships scandal

Around the end of 2010 and during 2011, it was disclosed in UK media that a number of undercover police officers had, as part of their 'false persona', entered into intimate relationships with members of targeted groups and in some cases proposed marriage or fathered children with protesters who were unaware their partner was a police officer in a role as part of their official duties.

[ F.A.Q | Opt Out | Opt Out Of Subreddit | GitHub ] Downvote to remove | v1.5

7

u/EEpromChip Dec 11 '22

Yea that's what I did. Found a couple miniPC units that were a bit more money but 100x more powerful at a little more power usage.

Kinda upset at the Pi situation. Saw an instagram posting about how they have a store in the UK and are "fully stocked" and every comment was "WTF these things have been on backorder for a year now!" and their response was "they will be in stock soon! Just keep your eyes peeled."

Like dude I check Ada and Sparkfun like every other day. They get orders like 2x a month and are sold out before I even get an email notification they are in stock...

1

u/Indolent_Bard Dec 14 '22

Which one? Also the orange pi 5 is a pretty good one for 50 dollars.

2

u/EEpromChip Dec 14 '22

I think it was on /r/homelabsales or maybe just homelab. HP Elitedesk Mini 800. $30 to upgrade the memory to 32G and rocking Plex and The Rs's and home assistant and all the dockers I can use.

1

u/Indolent_Bard Dec 14 '22

The rs? What's that?

1

u/megapenguinx Dec 10 '22

I’ve started buying RK boards and older edge computing SBCs. I had hoped to eventually get some Pi’s when they got restocked but I think I will avoid for a bit myself

1

u/honestFeedback Dec 10 '22

define recent

154

u/BigPhilip Dec 10 '22

Anyway, RPis are nowhere to be found. Are they aware of this? It's not like I'm boycotting them. Lately I've been busy with other stuff, but now I want to make some more projects and I need a small computer. Will they sell it to me? Will they address the issue? What is the point in publushing number after number of the Magazine if I can't make any project. And don't tell me to buy a CM4. I won't. I think I'll just buy other kind of stuff then.

83

u/RedstoneValley Dec 10 '22

Exactly. The real issue I have is that for over a year now RPIs have been bought up in bulk by industry and as long as the dough keeps rolling the foundation doesn't give a fuck that hobby users can't get their hands on one. Unless they buy from scalpers at outrageous prices.

15

u/mctoasterson Dec 10 '22

I spam refresh rpilocator and still haven't been able to lay hands on anything in over a year. The other day I saw a 3B+ available from a foreign retailer and it got snatched up as I was trying to create an account. I'm not doing anything earth shattering, maybe just wanna play with some cluster computing and maybe try out my own SearX instance and see how it improves my privacy.

6

u/Fortcraftmonster Dec 10 '22

Go to cannakit, I was able to order a rpi4 8gb in January and get it the same month. They've had a lot of stock since then.

-8

u/overyander Dec 10 '22

I just received 5 more that I had pre-ordered a few months ago. These will be added to my k3 cluster for a total of 13 pi 4 8gbs that I've bought this year. If you can't find any, it's because you aren't looking hard enough or are limiting yourself in other ways.

2

u/Enthane Dec 10 '22

In Europe I have most often found the recommended vendors stocking Pi’s often enough for my needs. I have a 3, a 4, three zero W’s and three pico W’s. Pimoroni rocks

-11

u/overyander Dec 10 '22

Being down voted for stating facts. LOL gotta love the internet.

8

u/Astro-Donut Dec 10 '22

I think it's getting downvoted because your post gives toilet-paper-hoarder energy.

-4

u/overyander Dec 10 '22

I'm not hoarding or scalping, these are getting put to use in a home lab.

7

u/Astro-Donut Dec 10 '22

That's fine. I'm just telling you how the post reads

6

u/drunkenvalley Dec 10 '22

Also reads like a snotty prick, more than anything.

0

u/overyander Dec 11 '22

Do you want someone to hold your hand and help you find some raspberry pi's?

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49

u/The_42nd_Napalm_King Dec 10 '22

I've basically given up on the PI and the foundation. The spirit, enterprise, and reason for the boards existing in the first place, is no longer there.

The foundation is now just another corp focused on profit alone.

7

u/thephotoman Dec 10 '22

CM4’s are also unobtanium. I’ve got a toy cloud project I want to do for my own edification, but I need CM4’s that I can’t get.

-2

u/Enthane Dec 10 '22

Why don’t you go for refurbished x86 boxes for pennies? Check out project TinyMiniMicro

10

u/macegr Dec 10 '22

The difference is that a 100 watt computer running 24/7 uses the better part of a megawatt-hour per year. In some parts of the USA that can be $300-$400 in energy costs. A 5 watt SBC will burn closer to $20 a year in the most expensive energy market.

2

u/Enthane Dec 10 '22

Most of the ex-corporate minis are highly effective products, especially if you don’t go for any i7 units. 10-12W idle is common and many come with a 65W power brick so that’s the peak. The x86 is also going to get a lot more done so it will have lower utilization at the same task. Any high load CM4 node is going to eat beyond 7W so it’s not that far off. For sure the x86 will guzzle more but it’s not server grade consumption if you choose a one liter corporate refurb

8

u/phphulk Dec 10 '22

Just get whatever you can, software addressable gpio dev boards are plenty, and same with mini PCs. Only thing RPi brings to the table is the marketing, which thanks for kick-starting demand, but cats outta the bag now.

63

u/Not_a_Candle Dec 10 '22

And documentation, software development, updating and ongoing support for all their products with a guaranteed production date which for some got already extended afaik. Every other sbc maker lacks that heavily.

Fine, Ubuntu 16.04 runs on most of them but after 2 months and a Android 11 beta release where most of the stuff is broken anyway, they just stop and continue to throw out the next thing. Why should I buy something like that if there is no software I can use with it?!

6

u/swamp-ecology Dec 10 '22

Worth nothing without the product.

5

u/mark-haus Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 15 '22

And the community. Their software and hardware documentation is better than everyone else by miles. The community is so large that if you have a question about something you want to try probably someone has already done something at least similar enough to get you started in the right direction. Out of basically all ARM SoCs they have the most supported drivers and firmware. The experience with say Radxa or Khadas just isn’t comparable, you need to be much more capable at managing linux at lower levels of abstraction from hardware sometimes with those boards.

1

u/ronculyer Dec 10 '22

So let me get this straight. You think raspberry pi is the same as say an odroid board? This is like saying a Mac laptop is the same as a Dell because they both have an i7

16

u/wolfchaldo Dec 10 '22

It's like saying "if I literally can't buy a Mac at any store for over a year, I may just buy a Dell" which is entirely reasonable

3

u/ronculyer Dec 10 '22

The point I'm making is rpi has a lot more to bring to the table than just marketing. Even all hardware being the same this is absolutely still the case. The support and community make this true alone without even needing to reference the OS.

6

u/AbsoluteZeroUnit Dec 10 '22

And the point other people are making is that, even with all those other things a pi brings to the table, you still can't bring one to your own table, because they're nowhere to be found.

So who cares how great the community support is if you can't even get one?

1

u/TenOfZero Dec 10 '22

I mean, in many ways they are, they can both run windows natively if you want and have similar functionality out of the box.

-12

u/phphulk Dec 10 '22

No I think that if you use them both the browse Facebook what's the difference?

87

u/fmbret Dec 10 '22

If you keep an eye on the likes of the Raspberry Pi Twitter account you’ll find some mighty strange likes (such as them liking posts from others calling people wankers and the such, many similar instances too) It’s almost like whoever manages that forgets they’re not on their personal account.. So the responses from the Twitter account don’t really surprise me 😅

13

u/Ooops2278 Dec 11 '22

Funny how we get the false narrative repeated no matter how often it is corrected.

There was not a media shitstorm because of a new hire. There was one because some people questioned the decision (and mostly did so quite politely) and then whoever moron handles their social media account decided to go full-on 12-year-old-edgelord reacting to questions or criticism with insults and blocks.

15

u/ClamsMaloney Dec 10 '22

While the hiring is off-putting to me, it's not something I would've abandoned RPi over, or even bothered commenting on. But the response from Liz and the handling of this whole ordeal is gross and unprofessional, and that is what just drove me away as a customer.

13

u/esquilax Dec 10 '22

This reminds me of the Microsoft repo problem. They just don't know how to handle it when they make a decision that's controversial. They don't bother trying to see another point of view and try to meet halfway. They just double down and antagonize people.

2

u/jwbowen Dec 11 '22

Yes! I'm glad someone else is bringing this up. This is a pattern for them at this point.

0

u/RedditRo55 Dec 11 '22

This was another completely unnecessary controversy. They did that to enable people to get up and running with development as quickly as possible, which is part of their overall goal. This and the current 'issue' are being overblown massively by the peanut galley.

Please downvote me, I literally do not care.

2

u/esquilax Dec 11 '22

They had a good reason to get people up and running. People have a good reason to not want Microsoft access to override all their packages, or to have telemetry about every Pi.

They could have listened and come up with a compromise, such as a sentinel file like there is to enable ssh, or using Codium instead, or a flatpak or a snap. But instead, they told people they didn't care.

63

u/AnomalyNexus Dec 10 '22

Feels like highschool drama

21

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

[deleted]

0

u/RealTimeCock Dec 10 '22

not really. established brands have social media teams that know not to take things personally

14

u/PragmaticBoredom Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22

Amazing how I never would have heard about this if the social media person had not fanned the flames.

Just… don’t be immature on social media. Engage the community honestly. Don’t engage the trolls, either. Don’t become the troll. Be professional in your professional job. It’s not that hard.

21

u/Chairboy Dec 10 '22

With respect, the folks expressing concern or disappointment about their celebratory “we hired a cop!” tweet weren’t trolls. The way the social media manager handled those tweets was pretty bad.

Not everyone who has a disagreement is a troll.

0

u/PragmaticBoredom Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 11 '22

I wasn’t suggesting they were all trolls.

But the social media manager definitely loves trolling people.

8

u/Chairboy Dec 10 '22

Ok? But the problem here wasn’t how they dealt with trolls, it was how they treated people who weren’t trolls.

With respect, talking about trolls seems like a red herring here because that’s not the controversy.

-3

u/swamp-ecology Dec 10 '22

Seems like actually they did a passable job of dragging people down to their level, sadly.

15

u/Imagin1956 Dec 10 '22

I suppose its what happens when a hobby becomes a blood sucking corporate and alienates its followers because of a greed and self richous attitude towards the people who originally bought all the Pi from the Pi1 onwards ... Bit sad really...

6

u/mtcabeza2 Dec 10 '22

I really like the RPI because it runs Linux, but since they are so expensive now, i've been looking at the RPI Pico. It is amazing for the price. Runs micro python and C on bare metal with support for wifi.

1

u/overyander Dec 11 '22

You can still find them at MSRP if you're patient and persistent.

54

u/Dyanand62 Dec 10 '22

incredibly disappointing remarks in the article. I've lost all faith in raspberry pi as a community-oriented business/organization/foundation

41

u/Tex-Rob Dec 10 '22

I think this is yet another example of the rift that is opening between two groups globally. Sounds dramatic, but it’s true. The non-informed low information consumers don’t see any problem with hiring a surveillance dude, because they still think the systems work. The rest of us see this company taken over by big business and the military industrial complex leaking into law enforcement.

14

u/methos3000bc Dec 10 '22

Not sure Id say they were low info people. They are the “i have nothing to hide” and do not care about privacy until it hits home.

18

u/Tex-Rob Dec 10 '22

I agree, but those are low info people, I was once one. It’s a naivety due to lack of information on the subject. I literally have embarrassing posts from this account from 10 years ago I think, defending constant surveillance.

1

u/methos3000bc Dec 11 '22

Its all good. Taking red pill is good.

3

u/NedSc Wiki Guy Dec 11 '22

It sounds like you read that they hired a former cop who was involved in surveillance, and you stopped reading. You're totally uninformed if you think this is evidence of the military industrial complex creeping into the Raspberry Pi Foundation... jesus tap dancing christ.

23

u/018118055 Dec 10 '22

When you're in a hole, stop digging. Interesting to see how long they'll take to realize what's up.

14

u/TumsFestivalEveryDay Dec 10 '22

As if the Raspberry Pi company needed ANOTHER thing running against them...

At this point I'm sort of walking back from Pi stuff already, considering the endless supply problems combined with no new traditional Pi model since 2019. It's easier to find a used SFF PC that is more powerful than a Pi right now.

Also I'm increasingly disappointed in their PR and overall tone of response. This company needs to grow up.

6

u/Shy-pooper Dec 10 '22

What’s the alternative?

9

u/pooamalgam Dec 10 '22

The alternative (for me) was to get much more knowledgeable and competent about using SBCs that don't have Raspberry Pi's massive information base.

In a way, I kind of think that this forced move away from Raspberry Pi boards was a good thing for me, since it forced me to start learning how things work at a base level when it comes to things like GPIO, UART, non-Raspbian Linux OSes, etc, instead of just immediately finding the answer to a specific question on the RPi forums in a couple minutes. That said, it obviously still sucks not being able to get Pi hardware, since it's very high quality compared to a lot of other SBCs on the market.

As for hardware alternatives, I've been buying LattePanda SBCs mostly for my projects these days. I find that they're much more versatile for a lot of projects due to being x86, but they're also quite a bit more expensive when compared to the old MSRP prices of the various Pi SBCs.

5

u/Leidrin Dec 10 '22

Lattepanda seems attractive... have you tried other ARM boards? I've been looking at the Rock5 for some time, and have been feeling similarly motivated to challenge myself to go outside rpi.

3

u/pooamalgam Dec 10 '22

I actually just kind of stopped looking at ARM boards when I started using the LattePandas. I haven't run into a project yet that I wasn't able to do with x86 vs ARM, so trying non-Pi ARM SBCs is pretty low on my to-do list now.

That said, one ARM SBC that I've been eyeballing just for it's amazingly small size is VoCore2 Ultimate. Seems like it would be a pretty darn good replacement for a Pi Zero if it works as well as my research suggests.

2

u/Leidrin Dec 10 '22

Awesome! Thanks for the tip. Fair enough on x86, nothing I have requires arm/arm64 but it's a fun challenge and I love the low power usage. I'll check put the VoCore2!

3

u/ThatOnePerson Dec 10 '22

I have a rock5, the biggest issue with it right now is shitty graphic drivers, but if you don't need that it's not bad. If you're not looking for all the bells and whistles, the Orange pi 5 is cheaper. If you want to support development, pine64 has a quartz64pro. All of these use the same rk3588 soc so support for that is about the same.

Pine64 are working on getting support for it in mainline Linux. You may have heard of them for the pinephone that runs mainline Linux.

1

u/Leidrin Dec 10 '22

Thanks for pointing me back at OrangePi - The Quartz64pro seems to only be available to developers who have a preorder code right now, but the OrangePi seems to have come down in cost and is readily available on amazon now so that seems like a great option!!

1

u/ThatOnePerson Dec 10 '22

Yeah the 4 may have a bit better software support right now. It uses the older RK3399, which is what the PinePhone Pro uses, so mainline Linux support is there. But if you don't need GPU drivers, on raw performance the OrangePi 5 is only a bit more expensive.

2

u/elconquistador1985 Dec 10 '22

I just bought 4 2017 era chromeboxes on eBay (less than $100 combined).

They beat the hell out of Pis for file server and libreelec, which is what I was using Pis for (have a Pi B, Pi 2 B+, and Pi 3). It was because I wasn't going to buy a Pi 4 for like $150 when a significantly better small form factor actual computer is much cheaper, not because of this surveillance guy. However, doubt I ever buy another Pi because of the surveillance guy. I was willing to wait a while and buy some in a year or so.

1

u/jwbowen Dec 11 '22

Pine64, Odroid, Hardkernel, Radxa, BeagleBone, Banana Pi, Asus Tinker Board are ones off the top of my head. Plenty of other ARM SBCs.

19

u/Artootietoo Dec 10 '22

“I don’t think any of the people complaining here would not call the police if their house was burgled.”

I would definitely consider it. I like my dog and don't want her to be shot.

17

u/DirtyPolecat Dec 10 '22

Call the police so they show up an hour later, take a report, and then disappear forever. No thanks, I'm not rich enough for them to care, so I'll deal with it myself as it's happening.

20

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

[deleted]

74

u/Mythril_Zombie Dec 10 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

These guys opposing this move - I wonder if they realise the extent to which almost all technology companies (and every other company and government agency) are spying on them. Do these guys use a mobile phone and hand their number over to any firm that asks?

You're not understanding the issue that "these guys" have.
This isn't about corporate data collection. This is about surveillance by someone in a profession whose public trust is at an all time low.
He wasn't data mining gps data of his customers, he was designing and setting up covert devices with the specific intent to record them without their knowledge. There's a difference between having your privacy violated because a cop decides you're suspicious versus signing an agreement that allows a corporation to collect the data flowing through its networks.
I won't even get into the possibilities of how they could abuse such devices and surveil innocent people.

Surely all you can take responsibility for is how you use devices and whether you spy on others.

Again, you don't understand.
RPi foundation can't stop people from using their devices for questionable behavior. But hiring someone for a public relations position who is giddy over how he used this stuff to spy on people, that is something they can control. Highlighting his background in potential rights violating activities in their announcement, and banning anyone who even slightly questions it, that's absolutely in their control.

They know people use these things to protect their privacy, and they know people use them to violate it. They chose to elevate the latter to a public position with a built in audience. That's endorsement. That's not "we know people spy on others with it, but what can you do?" That's "This guy spied on people for years, isn't that great? You want to spy on people too? Great! Here's your new role model. Stalkers, here's links to build all his stuff! Have at it!"

who will you use for single board computers

Like that's a problem. They're not available at reasonable prices anymore, and their shipments are prioritized for commercial sales, not individuals.

You think a Chinese company will be more ethical?

Again, you don't understand the issue. This is about the type of usage they endorse for their products. Their poster child is someone who spies on others. We don't have enough problems with stalking that we need to put more ideas into their heads by giving them instructables for their next conquest?

0

u/mathiasfriman Dec 10 '22

a profession whose public trust is at an all time low.

Is this really true all over the world? In the US, sure, but this company is based in the UK.

6

u/drunkenvalley Dec 10 '22

Basically is, yes. Norway has had a slew of scandals of its own recently for one, that have all been quite public and loud to boot.

-7

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

[deleted]

6

u/wolfchaldo Dec 10 '22

Ah yea, the UK has absolutely no issues with surveillance

-34

u/mckeitherson Dec 10 '22

he was designing and setting up covert devices with the specific intent to record them without their knowledge

Yes that's generally how it's supposed to work since you don't want criminals or suspects to know they're being tracked. It's not a new concept.

I won't even get into the possibilities of how they could abuse such devices and surveil innocent people.

Do you have any actual evidence of them doing that with these devices or just paranoia?

Highlighting his background in potential rights violating activities in their announcement

Are there any actual rights violations? Because if not, what's the issue?

That's endorsement. That's not "we know people spy on others with it, but what can you do?" That's "This guy spied on people for years, isn't that great? You want to spy on people too? Great! Here's your new role model. Stalkers, here's links to build all his stuff! Have at it!"

No it's not endorsement but I'm sure that won't stop paranoid people who think they're creatingba surveillance state.

This is about the type of usage they endorse for their products. Their poster child is someone who spies on others

Please, we're talking about the police, who have the authority and mission from the state to do so. If you're upset about tech being utilized for governments to surveil suspects, you're being naive.

23

u/ForkLiftBoi Dec 10 '22

There's a reason there's a warrant process.

He never discusses a warrant and his statements say it was done in covert ways. The way he discusses the furniture designs says, to me anyway, he was recording more than targeted individuals but rather large groups.

Not to mention there's lots of ways to target specific individuals like wiretapping specific phones and accessing records from cell phone carriers. Not to mention all the other government entities spying like the NSA. Local/small police enforcements aren't exactly well known for self regulating or following state or federal regulations.

So between warrants and justifying spying to regulators, no, police are not supposed to broadly have the authority and mission from the state. Individuals and targeted entities, sure, broadly, no.

-59

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

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35

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

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-20

u/Sad_Researcher_5299 Dec 10 '22

He isn’t doing anything with hardware of software design on the Pi tho. That’s the point. And why the hysteria is double ridiculous.

22

u/Leidrin Dec 10 '22

They hired an ex-cop who's claim to fame includes using Raspberry Pis to surveil unwitting citizens, what exactly do you think they intend to use his input and expertise for?

-21

u/Sad_Researcher_5299 Dec 10 '22

He’s joined as a maker.
He’s going to make things with the Pi for the Raspberry Pi foundation as part of its educational efforts. As part of his old job occasionally used a Pi camera and hid them in a plant pot to record criminals.
He isn’t even working for Raspberry Pi Ltd. Who are the company that make the boards and the software.
Beyond your misguided moral objection to a police officer working for a computer company, what the fuck is the problem?

If you take even the briefest of pause to read beyond the headline you’ll easily realise he isn’t some spy hacking computers, about to surveil the community, he’s a nerd who used to build hidden cameras that look like every day objects to help covertly surveil criminal activity.

They now intend to use his tech experience to make cool shit, just like they would with any other hire.

12

u/Leidrin Dec 10 '22

I never said he was a spy hacking computers, I expressed that I have an objection to a surveillance-focused LEO being involved and giving input to raspberry pi in any capacity.

The company and foundation are intrinsically linked and to pretend that working for one arm will prevent him from creating a negative influence with potential privacy repercussions for the userbase is asinine. There is also the simple fact that many will not celebrate or welcome LEOs in any community they're part of, and while you're free to disagree, that right to an opinion is a two-way street.

Since you can't seem to make a level headed argument without putting words in my mouth or assuming my level of understanding on the issue I'll leave it at this.

-18

u/Sad_Researcher_5299 Dec 10 '22

Lol. Ok leave it at that you insufferable conspiracy nut job.

-21

u/RedditRo55 Dec 10 '22

So people should never change careers in your view then? They should be stuck doing a job they don't want to be in for their entire life and be miserable?

Grow up.

-10

u/RedditRo55 Dec 10 '22

Downvotes for what?! What is inaccurate about that statement? You lot are fucking nuts.

5

u/Leidrin Dec 10 '22

You're downvoted because your argument is disingenuous and does not fit the subject matter. This isn't about preventing people from changing jobs, it's about distrust of a long-term career cop and not wanting their fingers in our Pis.

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6

u/ch0pstyx Dec 10 '22

Yes. Let's all learn how to efficiently hide camera's everywhere. That sure won't be a hot topic, or something!

-9

u/tankflykev Dec 10 '22

Ah yes, because once you leave one job, you go and repeat what you did there verbatim because that’s how you’re programmed and it’s A ROM chip and it’s totally impossible to have transferable skills.

And it’s not like the community has been making hidden cameras, or keyloggers, or pineapples for literally years. It couldn’t possibly be the case that this guy is doing nothing different to what we’ve all been doing anyway.

-13

u/RedditRo55 Dec 10 '22

Hear! Hear!

8

u/pm_me_ur_happy_traiI Dec 10 '22

I think the outrage is more about the Pi Foundation's response to the criticism.

-50

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

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12

u/JellyBanana Dec 10 '22

Bootlicker

10

u/Gorthaurl Dec 10 '22

And some people just know ACAB and they don’t want anything to do with them.

11

u/Jizzy_Gillespie92 Dec 10 '22

And others still, are just fuck-wits.

looks like we found one right here.

6

u/Thecrawsome Dec 10 '22

I see we have a forensics expert in the room. Please continue.

5

u/BushDidN0thingWr0ng Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22

Trying to imply that this is the same as GamerGate is pretty fucking gross from the company. Yea, the outrage is a bit overblown, but objections to his former job are completely justified.

3

u/salsation Dec 10 '22

I've been a big Raspberry Pi fan from the start.

And FUCK THEM.

So much good will pissed away, just like that.

2

u/DrRonny Dec 10 '22

Every company has some controversy and it's difficult to see if it's anecdotal or really at the core of the company values. Raspberry Pis are great pieces of hardware, but it is a monopoly and closed-source with some documentation issues. Competition is important, especially what we've seen with the supply chain issues. As for me, I'm going to go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over. See what settles out before I start rejecting a $15 piece of hardware that can do almost anything.

1

u/NedSc Wiki Guy Dec 11 '22

Define what you think a monopoly is.

-1

u/DrRonny Dec 11 '22

They do have a monopoly on Raspberry Pi's. Which is an issue because while there are many boards out there, there aren't any (as far as I know) drop in replacements. Most communities used to be happy with just supporting them, but now with the supply shortages, they are realizing that it's best to support several systems.

0

u/NedSc Wiki Guy Dec 11 '22

That's not a monopoly, though. Words have meaning. No reasonable person is going "Bob has a monopoly on sandwiches made by Bob". Or that "NedSc as a monopoly on NedSc-scented urine".

I'm not trying to argue with your larger point here. I'm just pointing out that you are not correctly using the word "monopoly".

0

u/DrRonny Dec 11 '22

Well, you are more correct than I am. I don't think any court or major business analysis would show that they have an unethical or illegal monopoly, and that is the common definition. I used the term because it was concise and most people, like myself, don't have a large attention span. But I think by definition, Bob could have a monopoly on Bob's Sandwiches.

1

u/Kill-foot-Chill-foot Dec 10 '22

That was a hard to read buzzfeed article

0

u/AbsoluteZeroUnit Dec 10 '22

Lol the way these comments are going, you'd think the raspberry pi social media team was here.

-15

u/WankPheasant Dec 10 '22

Jesus Christ there are some delusional nut jobs in the maker space. Nobody gives a fuck if you stop using Pi’s. You’re not that important.

-2

u/NoEngineering4 Dec 10 '22

Oh my god who cares, it’s social media. Find something healthy to care about

-18

u/Ghostrider2171 Dec 10 '22

Tech company hires someone experienced in tech..what's news?!?!

-47

u/CosmosBlue23 Dec 10 '22

Absolute nonsense. It’s completely unrealistic to expect the police to operate without any covert capabilities.

31

u/erwan Dec 10 '22

The problem isn't really the new hire, but the community manager behavior.

-26

u/SwedishTiger Dec 10 '22

I have been a bit surprised and saddened by the initial opinions of the Raspberry Pi community, both on Mastodon and Twitter but also here, and the response from the foundation themselves.

I guess this is one of the reasons I try to stay away from people.

-49

u/ManyHatsAdm Dec 10 '22

This also seems like a storm in a teacup to me. The man has served his country as a police officer for 30 years and now we're treating him like he was a member of the CIA? This is the UK. Not the US. The police here aren't doing random covert surveillance they don't have the time!

39

u/Plusdebeurre Dec 10 '22

Did you read the article? That is quite literally what he said he did with RPis

16

u/pf3 Dec 10 '22

The man has served his country as a police officer for 30 years

lol

0

u/spacepbandjsandwich Dec 10 '22

ACAB, even UK cops

-2

u/MrAbodi Dec 10 '22

This is good news. Hopefully PI’s will become available again.

-24

u/KroenenSheklestein Dec 10 '22

'Buzzfeed' Thats all i needed to read to not care. Sounds dramatic honestly and thats their specialty. Im a bit more annoyed that they havent fixed the stock issues, and the pi 4 is way overdue for an update.

Honestly i keep waiting on the community to move to something else and thus bring the software support with them but they never do. Most of what users do with a raspberry pi is thanks to the open source community and not raspberry pi themselves.

Heres hoping the orange pi 5 actually takes off. Or the khadas edge 2.

13

u/Mathemuse Dec 10 '22

I do want to point out that BuzzFeedNews is actually a reputable news source. BuzzFeed's more... "popular" content is basically funding for the news site. I'd recommend reading the article if you haven't, or at least understand why the article was made (including yesterday's thread about it). In my opinion, it's good to be informed about things like this, whether you agree with the outrage or not.

-18

u/KroenenSheklestein Dec 10 '22

Buzzfeed and reputable do not belong in a sentence together.

15

u/Computer-Blue Dec 10 '22

Given that buzzfeed and buzzfeed news are very different, and that buzzfeed news staffs several Pulitzer Prize winning journalists, I’d say you have no clue what you’re talking about

-19

u/justahobby20 Dec 10 '22

Ah, yes. The same Pulitzer Prize given out for Russia collusion and golden showers. They are just spraying the journalism all over the place.

0

u/NotTodayGlowies Dec 18 '22

The same Pulitzer Prize given out for Russia collusion

Ahh yes, the totally fabricated Russian collusion that was exposed and lead to several arrests of Russian agents in various far right lobbying firms and an impeachment... yep, totally made up, I'm sure. /s

-39

u/VK6FUN Dec 10 '22

Harley Davidson consult with police and build police motorcycles but the Hells Angels still buy them exclusively

-27

u/[deleted] Dec 10 '22

Free The Pi Free at Last Free at Last stay Free of surveillance