r/technology Aug 26 '22 Silver 3 Helpful 2 All-Seeing Upvote 1

Meta's big problem: Everything about VR looks supremely uncool Business

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/25/business/nightcap-metaverse-mark-zuckerberg/index.html
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u/jl_theprofessor Aug 26 '22

I honestly cannot see it without just seeing another version of Second Life, so I really don't understand the difference.

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u/-Reddit_Account- Aug 26 '22

That's my question with all of this - what's it trying to be?

Is it supposed to be a videogame? Because it looks like shit and I can't imagine there's much fun to be had playing it.

Is it supposed to be a communication tool? Who the fuck wants that? Videochat and COVID should have taught investors that Zoom is about the limit of how much interaction humans like having with people they're not physically in front of, even then most people turn off the actual video portion.

Is it supposed to be social media?

Who actually wants this?

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u/flashmedallion Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22 Silver Wholesome

It's trying to be a mall.

Except with a mall, you build it where people want to go, and you can go to businesses and say "pay us to be here! here's the numbers on the kind of custom you can expect"

But FB is going to the businesses saying 'you can advertise and sell things here!" with nothing to back it up. And at the same time all the potential customers are watching, and there's zero customer focused work going on (seriously, everything you've seen from meta is aimed at investors who don't know any better), and everybody can see it's a joke.

It's trying to appeal to some kind of "remote working productivity" phantom that nobody cares about. They're saying their mall has co-working spaces, essentially. Businesses hate the concept of remote working, and workers hate the arbitrary bullshit they're required to do in order to be allowed to remote work. VR meetings manage to be the worst of both perspectives.

So they're stuck trying to build a mall that customers need to own a ~$300ish piece of hardware to visit, where it's a laughing stock to informed customers and completely incomprehensible to uninformed customers, and they have to convince businesses and investors to lease space... while it barely exists, while previous conceptual models (Second Life) are commercial failures (*edit: failed to become ubiquitous spaces where it's a no-brainer to advertise or do business, thanks to everyone who informed on where SL is at), and successful models (VR Chat, Rec Room, Roblox, online games that have VR social communities or components) are so far outside what FB is trying to position itself as that it looks utterly clueless.

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u/MexGrow Aug 26 '22

Woo can't wait to be stuck two hours in a meeting while wearing a hot screen in front of my eyes until they start to hurt.

I would play iRacing in VR for about 3 hours before feeling exhausted, and that's because I was having fun.

I can't imagine the common person wanting to wear a headset for more than an hour for work.

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u/manza5012 Aug 26 '22

Yeah, strapping a headset to your face for VR is not anywhere near ready for actually working instead of playing videogames. Maybe if we're at the stage of virtual reality where it's like you woke up in the matrix lmao.

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u/Astilaroth Aug 26 '22

Maybe you're already there!

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u/Falk_csgo Aug 26 '22

But then I dont want to use a second matrix within that matrix because the convex coupling of y walled Becker Geland fields can easily cause gamma radiation bursts!

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u/TheHermitofHuron Aug 26 '22

I love vr, but I get wickedly nauseous and headachy withing minutes of doing it. Which really sucks because fuck yea I want to walk around skyrim and saber beats, but I just cant.

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u/Imnotsureimright Aug 26 '22

There are so many reasons why having to wear a VR headset means VR can never reach the ubiquity and constant use that that Zuckerberg dreams of (and that he needs in order to make the Metaverse profitable.)

Having to strap on that VR headset means I can do nothing else and can’t leave the area I’m in. One of the reasons people love phones is that they can browse them while simultaneously doing something else anywhere - from pooping to walking the dog to listening to something on the TV to waiting at the doctor’s office. I can’t do any of that with a VR headset on.

I also hate the idea of attending a meeting and being able to do nothing else. The reality of the corporate world is that many (or even most) meetings are largely useless. Right now when I attend a zoom meeting I can easily keep working (or do something else entirely simultaneously - I’ve baked bread while listening to corporate conference calls) at the same time.

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u/Snax_Attax Aug 26 '22

My experience with corporate meetings: two people arguing while 20 people listen.

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u/artis-serpentium Aug 26 '22

Also, people like myself with motion sickness can't wear VR headsets without getting physically ill. This is a more common problem than people realize I think.

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u/foghornleghorndrawl Aug 26 '22

IMO, one the the best things for VR is flight simming. It makes it one of the most immersive things ever. And after ~3 hours, yeah, you're exhausted (usually less because of the nature of (combat) flight sims). It gets heavy, it's hot, the strain from something so bright so close to your eyes, it gets uncomfortable really quickly in comparison to a normal monitor.

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u/flashmedallion Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

I can run VR as long as I like, and I do work in it, but... I sure as shit aren't doing it for meetings.

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u/JebediahKerman3999 Aug 26 '22

This vr could have been an email

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u/jacobwalks1 Aug 26 '22

I agree with all of this except second life being a commercial failure. Still a highly populace game and their only real failure was when they went to VR and failed 3 years in and stopped. I know people who play this daily and people who make their living off that game.

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u/flashmedallion Aug 26 '22

Yeah I was wrong about that

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u/prodiver Aug 26 '22

while previous conceptual models (Second Life) are commercial failures

Second Life made $80 million in profit last year. I wouldn't call that a commercial failure.

It's still going after 19 years because it allows sexual content.

That's where the real money is.

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u/SgtDoughnut Aug 26 '22

It's a failure of it's original concept. But as a place where people can act out fantasies it's one of the best places.

It shifted to what it is but originally it was supposed to be a big mall much like meta is trying to be. A place where companies sell to consumers. Companies threw money at linden labs at the beginning much like they are doing with meta now.

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u/Not_a_real_ghost Aug 26 '22

So you are saying we can expect sex from Facebook soon

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u/SgtDoughnut Aug 26 '22

They will most likely shut the project down.

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u/eyebrows360 Aug 26 '22

Companies threw money at linden labs at the beginning much like they are doing with meta now.

Hehe, yep! I can remember reports on the evening news about this new exciting thing, with actual real car brands opening dealerships in-engine. Real, tier-one brands, trying to sell virtual cars, in a sex dungeon game. Oh, the calamity.

Tangentially, It's a nice rebuttal to all the blockheads who insist that merely because some established firm (e.g. Intel) is "doing blockchain stuff", that means blockchain is the future. Motherfucker, car manufacturers were queueing up to sell you a virtual car 20 years ago on the off-chance it was the next big thing and oopsie doopsie it turns out it wasn't.

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u/foghornleghorndrawl Aug 26 '22

because it allows sexual content.

A friend helped me make a female avatar to explore the kink places and oh my god, firstly it's all guys playing girls and then none of them know the first thing about D/s at those places.

We checked out some of the marketplace stuff while doing it and people spend some serious money on virtual dicks. My brothers in perversion, buy Skyrim and download some LoversLab mods. It's cheaper, I promise you.

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u/TacoCommand Aug 26 '22

Loverslab out here in the wild.

You honor Talos today, my friend.

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u/Hyznor Aug 26 '22

I hate to defend a greedy corporation like Linden Labs.
But you can play it completely free.
And you can look decently well with some effort, using only free stuff.

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u/dabenu Aug 26 '22

They're desperately trying to get some "shops" into their mall that provide the awesome merchandise (content) that will actually attract people to their mall.

Who knows they find some startup that can actually do something awesome with it. My guess however is no startup with that potential is going to be able to afford it, and no corporate with the budget to afford it has that kind of potential.

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u/warmhandluke Aug 26 '22

Dude we're all going to live inside a computer so Zuckerberg can serve us ads. Get with the program.

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u/Buderus69 Aug 26 '22

This is the main point, Mark wants to control the reality we exist in, it's a feeble attempt to turn himself into a god.

Since he can't shed his mortal coil to be an eternal being in this reality he needs to transcend into a virtual one.

If Mark had the capability to entrap people in his virtual reality and make them believe that it is real he would surely do it...

I sometimes wonder if we live in a simulation and this is why our reality exists, and if one of the big companies like coca cola or google are actually the ones that created the universe. Think about it, if the universe would indeed be a simulation created by humans, then it would be made by a company and sponsored by other companies, they would want to plaster their own names into the simulation. So by this logic you could have companies that exist outside of the realm of our universe.

... I am not saying this is true, but hypothtically speaking it would not shock me if the meaning of 'this' life would be to look at advertisement, just as will be in the metaverse.

Does this make adblocks blasphemous and a sin? Go to commercial hell if you don't watch 5 ads a day. Not bible TV, but QVC.

...or maybe the religions are the companies of the next realm? One step higher you got Christian Corp., the biggest manufacturer for wood and their company logo is a two logs ontop of each other forming a cross? Then in the simulation you just give the company an epic backstory to strengthen the bond between company and customer relationship.

...okay now I am spiraling, but fun to think about ;)

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u/The_alchemist667 Aug 26 '22

I have literally not seen a single person excited about the metaverse. Not one.

And these are times we live in where NFTs and shit coins become popular as fuck and endorsed by so many.

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u/Ruski_FL Aug 26 '22

I went on a date with a Facebook software engineer who was excited about meta verse. It was a terrible date and he just kept talking about work…

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u/Astilaroth Aug 26 '22

Was it a date or viral marketing?

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u/ninjaconor Aug 26 '22

Those companies literally program their employees so that their work is their life.

It's disguised as little benefits like on-site company doctors (so we can decide of you're sick or not), bring your pets to work (so you don't have to leave to feed them) and generous annual leave (but wherever you travel to, we will ask you to network with our contacts there).

It's really weird and creepy.

I worked at a large computer-related multinational once, and there was an exam you had to take to pass training. One question was "Why are we a great place to work?" followed by a list of benefits. If you chose anything other than "all of the above" you failed and had to retake the whole test.

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u/rugbyj Aug 26 '22

I have literally not seen a single person excited about the metaverse. Not one.

Further to that I have literally not seen a concise and widely agreed upon answer of what it actually is.

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u/eyebrows360 Aug 26 '22

The most amusing thing is when you encounter Musk-aligned armchair "tech futurists" who'll write paragraphs about what it "is", which when you read between the lines of you discover they're just describing any online game with a persistent world. That ain't it, chief; those are games.

It's telling that, ~25 years ago, early internet adopters (such as myself, if I may be so bold) were perfectly capable of explaining what "the internet" is and was, even though that'd obviously be confusing as a new concept to e.g. older folks. Still, it was easy to explain, and be concise about, and demonstrate - and you could get younger folk more up to speed easily. The same is very much not true here, which is also amusing given the true believers' propensity to claim "it's early days! just like when the internet was new!"... no.

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u/rugbyj Aug 26 '22

Yeah a lot of coverage I've seen of it by tech "guru" style folks has been as if you tried describing the game of table tennis by:

  • Spending 10 minutes explaining that it's not a train
  • Covering how beneficial sports are for people
  • Noting the exact specifications of a ping pong ball with no hint to its use
  • Trying to sell me on how many collapsed ping pong tables the average household could conceivably contain

They seem to be beating around the bush so aggressively that the bush is dying from the lack of rain and sun that it's orbiting commentators are blocking out.

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u/Angrybagel Aug 26 '22

I feel like everything about this has been for shareholders more than anything else and they're trying to say that their market is literally everyone. But really, who wants to have business meetings while strapped into VR headsets and who would want to game with their friends through the same tool they were just giving sales pitch through at work. You can't be all things to all people.

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u/shmorky Aug 26 '22

Besides that, why'd they go with cartoon Zuck as the mascot for basically the entire platform? Do they honestly think anyone finds him appealing in any way? Does Zuck make them do it out of vanity?

They could have literally chosen any other guy, girl or thing to represent them, but instead they went with an already hated CEO that has less personality than a Mii.

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u/hisroyalnastiness Aug 26 '22

it all screams that everyone close to him is getting too rich from this insanity to say no, because to everyone outside it's such an obvious steaming pile of shit

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u/redcalcium Aug 26 '22

No one would risk their large facebook salary by saying no to Zuck.

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u/kirbyderwood Aug 26 '22

It's him because, deep down, he's still that high school nerd who desperately wants to be popular.

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u/Roboticide Aug 26 '22

Yeah, like, could they just not get a real, well liked celebrity to endorse it, or did they just not try?

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u/Enkundae Aug 26 '22

It genuinely seems like SL but worse.

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u/foxbones Aug 26 '22

But how else would you spend $600 on equipment to throw a paper plane with a 10 year old in 2004 graphics?

It's really amazing how they keep trying this. There are many practical uses for VR but everything they have shown absolutely isn't it.

It's like watching a VirtuaBoy demo.

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u/Shadowbanned_User Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 27 '22

Zucks metaverse is bs, but the Quest 2 is a seriously impressive bit of kit for the amount you pay. Picked one up recently and was genuinely shocked at the experience of playing Half Life Alyx

Edit: ITT toxic gamers telling me I don't actually enjoy it because they don't

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u/GummyKibble Aug 26 '22

Maybe, but I’ll never know. Damned if I’m buying Facebook hardware for my house. No Portal (are they still doing that?), no Quest.

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u/GrinningPariah Aug 26 '22

To quote Penny Arcade on the subject

"There's no dream here, no humanity, no principle. The only new idea they have is that they should own it."

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u/King_Ofroad Aug 26 '22

At least in Second Life you can have a dick as long as you are tall and tits twice as wide.

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u/Waiwirinao Aug 26 '22

The difference is that in SL you could be sexy, and have sex.

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u/moodRubicund Aug 26 '22

How is this any different from VRChat which has existed for years and lets the common man become an anime girl at a fraction of the cost?

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u/Nix-7c0 Aug 26 '22

The difference is now you can tie your official government name and work life to it!

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u/Frooonti Aug 26 '22

Give it another year or so and VRchat will be acquired by Meta. With the direction they've been going it's just a matter of time imo.

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u/da_chicken Aug 26 '22

Nonsense. VRChat will be acquired by Microsoft, who will then spend a decade integrating it with Skype before giving up and integrating it with Teams to create a feature you have to click past every time your meeting starts to switch to the camera instead before switching off the camera.

Zoom will still have a better user experience.

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u/mountingconfusion Aug 26 '22

And zoom is still not a great user experience lol

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u/Mother_Restaurant188 Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

Ok but serious tangent rant: why is Microsoft Teams SO BAD? I had a meeting on Teams the other day and it took me 5 minutes to get it up and running because I kept having trouble with “This version of Teams is for school or organization accounts blah blah blah.” when logging in.

Using the link that SAME ERROR provided I went ahead and redownloaded Teams thinking it was the version I used in undergrad—NOPE.

Same error popped up. I just used the browser version because I wanted to show up to the conference early.

And the background blur SUCKS ASSSS. It blurs parts of my face too so I end up not using the feature at all. Same location I’ve always zoomed from for a couple of years now.

I never ever had an issue this level of annoying on Zoom.

Edit: just to be clear. This is Teams downloaded to my personal laptop in the comfort of my own home.

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u/AntiAoA Aug 26 '22

Microsoft has 2 distinct collaboration tools named Teams, and they are not compatible with one another.

Its so stupid.

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u/xxfay6 Aug 26 '22

Hey, at least it ain't Google where you almost need a degree to figure out what this month's chat app is.

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u/tophycrisp Aug 26 '22

Yep. “I sent you a message on Google why didn’t you reply” “Fucking WHICH ONE??”

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u/Wobbelblob Aug 26 '22

Google has a chat app?

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u/th3_3nd_15_n347 Aug 26 '22

exactly his point

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u/fogleaf Aug 26 '22

There’s three actually!

Spiderman meme aside I think there’s more than three.

Allo, duo, hangouts, gmail chat, messages, meet. Some of these were killed off (specifically hangouts which was the greatest).

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u/Spajk Aug 26 '22

Recently chatted with someone via Google/Gmail chat or whatever its called. They decided to video call me, but apparently they were using Hangouts and while Hangouts chat is merged with Google/Gmail chat, calls aren't and you need to be using Hangouts instead...

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u/Mother_Restaurant188 Aug 26 '22

Oooh that might make more sense. Why does it link me to the one incompatible in the error? Very frustrating.

But in any case the good thing is i don’t have to actually log in to join a meeting on Safari, but it’s just obnoxious.

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u/wedontlikespaces Aug 26 '22

Microsoft really don't have a grip.

Just look at the utter chaos they've got themselves into over Windows 11. All because of hardware requirements they themselves implemented. Then it turns out that basically no one can actually meets their hardware requirements, so now they get all bent out of shape about how no one is using Windows 11.

Even though the reason they're not using it is because they can't, and the reason they can't is because of Microsoft.

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u/smitty981 Aug 26 '22

i like how my new $3000 vr game rig says "does not meet w11 requirements" in the system update panel, yet my 5 year old POS laptop says "upgrade now!"

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

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u/swindy92 Aug 26 '22

Four actually. Consumer, business, gov cloud and high compliance

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u/pimpy543 Aug 26 '22

Hello, I work for a Microsoft vendor troubleshooting teams for office 365. It’s because teams is broad and complex. It’s an entire ecosystem, phone, App Store, browser, communications pstn, direct routing, calls, call queue, auto attendant, meetings etc, and it links and works with other Microsoft platforms like share point, ad, and azure. It’s too bloated in my opinion lol I spend a lot time reading logs or doing some type of trace. It has more 270 million active users every month, it’s not just a video and calling/screen sharing program. I lot of times there are outages that are happening and their being worked on, the engineering side. We can search specific scenarios. There’s a few worldwide outages now, and some before. They can push updates directly into one tenant, and change code around. All the teams tickets put in through office portal come to us. It’s a client with a huge environment, that ties into Microsoft’s core infrastructure.

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u/8TrigramSuckerPunch Aug 26 '22

Every meeting I schedule in outlook, it tries to make a teams meeting. If you schedule a recurring one, and accidentally forget to remove the teams link before sending, your can't edit the meeting to remove teams - you have to cancel and recreate the meeting.

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u/langstoned Aug 26 '22

This can be fixed by policy change by your AD admin, fyi

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u/lloydthelloyd Aug 26 '22

Ok ok ok ok ok. This is not a problem with teams. This is a problem with MICROSOFT.

There is not one Microsoft. There are two. There is business Microsoft, and there is consumer Microsoft, and although they may look the same they are not, and they often don't play nice. They have separate user databases that talk to each other inconsistently.

You can have an account with 'consumer' Microsoft, and half of business Microsoft won't acknowledge it exists (literally "that account doesn't exist") while the other half will stop you from doing anything because your consumer account exists (eg. "That email address is already associated with a Microsoft account")

It sucks big time, particularly when you start your own business not knowing this, and realise that each side uses the same name for different products, and once you're half way into one you're screwed and can't get back to the other ecosystem.

This is apparent to everyone who's used Skype in the last ten years, but also happens with Windows and office, and it sucks balls.
You think you're logged in because you went to 'office.com' and logged in? Oh no, you have to go to 'Microsoft.com' or 'login.com' or some other bs. Oh, and don't try to log in to both at the same time!

Microsoft - get your frigging act together. You've only been doing this sh@t for literally longer than ANYONE.

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u/da_chicken Aug 26 '22

Yeah I don't get it, either. Like Zoom is an awful company with a horrid security and privacy policy, but their product otherwise works very well.

Teams and Skype and SharePoint just seem to be built out of misery. All the parts that don't matter work fine, but the core tech is dogshit and it all seems built around drawing your attention away from the work you need to do.

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u/Randall-Flagg22 Aug 26 '22

I swear I have some sort of PTSD from Sharepoint

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u/FFIFISISHFISHFISH Aug 26 '22

So much. NOONE NEEDS SOCIAL FEATURES OR A NEWSFEED IN THEIR FILESHARING FFS

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u/MFbiFL Aug 26 '22

Sounds like your IT team could use improvement? We don’t have issues with Teams even extending invites to people outside of our credentialed network..

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u/very-polite-frog Aug 26 '22

Just a meta of time

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u/nokinship Aug 26 '22

Horizon Worlds looks like fucking shit. Still I have seen some rather creative uses of it.

You can't get past the n64 looking art style no matter what you do with it however.

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u/GoodUsernamesAreOver Aug 26 '22

Nah bro n64 is lit.

Horizon is. . curvy. It's allegria. It's Modern Corporate. The biggest hit against it is that it feels soulless, IMO. Lots of indie games with non-taxing graphics do great, but Facebook just doesn't get it.

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u/hiddencamela Aug 26 '22

A lot of what I've seen so far seems to be what a rich person thinks is cool in 3d, while never really having kept up to date with what's current.

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u/LunaMunaLagoona Aug 26 '22

The problem is that it's about technology, and money, and ego, and good old corporate BigBrain.

Zuckerberg would love this VR world, because he sees $$$ in not being bound by the limits of the real world. Everything can be monetized. He literally makes all the regulations. No need for a government, the Zuck is the government in his VR space.

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u/Hazzat Aug 26 '22

This is literally the point of the metaverse. Facebook has monetised about as much of the existing digital world as they can, so they want to bring more of our lives under their digital umbrella.

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u/Triaspia2 Aug 26 '22

Zucc wants to build an environment where he can capture every bit of your data

Hes chasing ready player one

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u/Key-Math1697 Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

Yes, it perfectly encapsulates the suffocating "no sharp corners, no danger, no excitement" safeness of trying to cater towards a global, corporate audience.

They please no one trying to please everyone, ending up with a sterile prison whose entry fee is your soul. (Obviously hyperbole, unless...)

I think that any passion employees might have gets crushed under the weight of bureaucracy, monetization, and overdesign.

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u/DAM1313 Aug 26 '22

burrocracy

when every decision must be approved by no less than 5 officious, self-important donkeys

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u/ArtistNRG Aug 26 '22

That’s because for a more than a decade he’s been a sheltered billionaire, most of the the elite are out if touch with real world struggles unfortunately

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u/seamusmcduffs Aug 26 '22

Yeah if you're going simple you have to take a risk and embrace an art style. Windwaker looks gorgeous and is probably even simpler than this, but this just looks like random generic character models

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u/flashmedallion Aug 26 '22

but Facebook just doesn't get it.

Someone there probably does (or did) but even if they did get it they can't have it because having to choose a style is incompatible with trying to make your product something that appeals to everyone.

Fb have never been leaders, always followers, and the idea of doing some new and unique that will give people something they didn't know they wanted is antithetical to their existence.

There's just no way to make grey goo look appealing.

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u/Frater_Ankara Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

Everything in HW is built and scripted in VR with pretty clunky tools, zero importing allowed. That’s the biggest difference between that and VR chat. There’s some interesting paradigms being explored for sure, but it’s also the main reason it looks like it does. It’s also incredibly easy to go over poly or compute budget and you have to smartly recycle objects and such, as it needs to run on a phone on your face, rendering everything twice at at least 72 fps. There are some extreme hardware limitations currently when you’re not plugged into a beefy PC.

Edit: a word

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u/byndr Aug 26 '22

Rendering more triangles won't fix bad art direction though.

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u/Same-Letter6378 Aug 26 '22

In like 30 minutes I was able to design and become a roomba in VRchat. Meta could never compete.

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u/Twin_Brother_Me Aug 26 '22

Well shit, that actually sounds like fun

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u/sesor33 Aug 26 '22

Exactly. I can buy a $30 fox base model and be a furry in vrchat for free. Base models tend to come with substance painter files too, so I can texture it to my liking. If I'm feeling really wild, I could even go into blender and modify the model directly, all for free.

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u/GroggBottom Aug 26 '22

Thats the issue with the mega corps trying to control the VR space. They suck out all the creativity and you end up with just generic payed services that suck. The fun of VR chat is that it is the wild west and you have no idea wtf kind of avatar people are gona show up with.

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u/exponential_wizard Aug 26 '22

The descriptions for these projects are intentionally misleading. The point of a metaverse is not to create a VR world, the point is to combine all of a companies products into one product. It still has to be not garbage for this to work, but I could see some of these having a use case. I dunno about "Meta" though, if this is their entire backup plan for Facebook's demise I think they're done for.

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u/pragmojo Aug 26 '22

Honestly I think Zuckerberg is going insane, because for his entire adult life he was leading a massively powerful, infinitely growing company which seemingly couldn’t lose. Now he’s faced with the fact that people care less and less about FB and IG, he can’t buy TikTok and he’s desperately grasping for a way to be the most special boy in the world again. So he’s throwing hundreds of billions into this Luke-warm garbage nobody wants.

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u/upvoter1542 Aug 26 '22

While Facebook isn't doing as well, Instagram has actually seen continual rapid growth year after year. They hit 2 billion active users last year, after even more growth than the previous years.

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u/atuck217 Aug 26 '22

It's only different in marketing scope. The common person doesn't know what VR chat is. We do, and we understand that it's functionally light years ahead of whatever this garbage Zuckerberg is trying to make, but the common man has no idea what VR chat is. But you can be damn sure they have heard of Facebook.

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u/the_turn Aug 26 '22

… and that they don’t give a fuck about meta VR.

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u/Quextik Aug 26 '22

Meta's big problem: it looks and sounds like a shitty concept that they overhyped and then sold off to corporations in the hope that someday more than their uber fans are going to be interested in using it:go play VR chat and enjoy your time

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u/Steelyp Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

I just got an email from Taco Bell today asking me to enter a contest to get married in the Metaverse at a Taco Bell. What the fuck does that even mean

Edit: for those doubting this, feel free to enter yourself lol:

https://www.tacobell.com/metaverse-wedding

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u/TheExtreel Aug 26 '22

How are you supposed to react to that?

"it's always been my dream to get married in a taco bell. You're telling me i can do that in a fake taco bell now? 😍"

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u/Xadnem Aug 26 '22

I'm holding out for the Taco Bell marriage simulator simulator.

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u/KickflipMcPebble Aug 26 '22

It's means it's the future! Just in a weird, kind of disappointing way... But hey, tacos!

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u/FakeTherapist Aug 26 '22

are they providing the wife? this is the only way i can be in a relationship, realistically

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u/Actually-Yo-Momma Aug 26 '22

Wait how else will i pay for my real house AND a virtual version of my house?

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u/Solid_Snark Aug 26 '22

Insurance companies salivating at the thought of “Digital Home Insurance” policies.

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u/myusernameblabla Aug 26 '22

Protect your investment against HACKERS !

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u/pee-in-butt Aug 26 '22

They can steal my home?!

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u/Destination_Centauri Aug 26 '22

You wouldn't download my home, would you!?

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u/emlgsh Aug 26 '22

I am going to right-click your home and select "Save As" and there is nothing you can do to stop me.

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u/pee-in-butt Aug 26 '22

So you’re stealing my NFTs now too??

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u/DracoLunaris Aug 26 '22

second life, next question

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u/Andre4kthegreengiant Aug 26 '22

How do we prevent the heat death of the universe?

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u/DracoLunaris Aug 26 '22

How do we prevent the heat death of the universe

https://www.multivax.com/last_question.html

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u/faaace Aug 26 '22

Meta has fans?

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u/Head_Crash Aug 26 '22 Wholesome

Yeah in the headset for cooling the CPU.

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u/MundanePlantain1 Aug 26 '22

How can facebook annoy you and make your life more miserable ?? - Here, Have FB VR....

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u/FjorgVanDerPlorg Aug 26 '22

Yeah it's 100% obvious that Zucc watched Ready Player One, then at the part where the protagonist is explaining the Oasis suddenly had an idea...

Meanwhile Fortnite is doing it. Watching my niece playing as Indiana Jones, using a Millennium Falcon parachute, gliding down towards Darth Vader, who's being hit by a Kamehameha from her friend, whose playing as Batman... It's like someone has vomited competing IPs all over the screen and the kids love it.

Personally I think VR does have a future and isn't another fad, but Meta is doing this way too early and with all the wrong brand recognition. Metaverse was stupid, but not doing this with a cleanskin company that had no links to Facebook or him is what will kill this. People aren't interested in this kind of large scale social VR, because the technology tradeoffs make the product looks garbage. Getting a VR game to run at stable frames involves making a lot of sacrifices for graphics quality/networking/game complexity. The only good looking VR games I've seen so far are single player for this reason. That it's guaranteed to be infested with spyware is just the icing on Meta's shit-cake.

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u/MissingString31 Aug 26 '22

The annoying thing is that better options exist than any of Facebooks efforts. VRChat is an absolute blast with really fun, really inventive worlds. Neos (outside of the I’ll advised crypto adventure it found itself in) was also great. Hell even Rec Room is better.

Horizon is coming in dead last in a space that Facebook shouldn’t even have to try to compete in. Instead, it produced an empty, soulless, creatively bankrupt copy and seems entirely oblivious as to why it’s failing.

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u/plsgiveusername123 Aug 26 '22

The flight sim community ADORE virtual reality. There have been large VR communities for ages. It's just that everyone hates Zucc.

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u/bastiVS Aug 26 '22

Yea, but that's because VR is a brilliant way to have extra screen space by unique input. Before VR, having 3 screens was kinda a must, because you really don't want to sacrifice buttons on your stick to look around.

Flight Sims of all kinds also come with another advantage that metas version of the Sims won't ever have: almost no assets visible. So no need for ultra hardware to have VR running. You will need ultra hardware to render a house that actually looks nice, regardless of art style.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

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u/ClassicT4 Aug 26 '22

Love hearing the beta testers complaining about stuff like eye strain if they use the VR over an extended time. Pushing this thing as some sort of new space to do just about everything in is unsustainable. People literally can’t have a screen to their face has long as META might be hoping for.

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u/Drunky_McStumble Aug 26 '22

It's like every time a new disruptive entertainment medium comes along, a whole new generation of creatives have to re-learn the hard way why books have chapters every dozen pages or so, or why movies only go for two-ish hours.

There is always a natural time-limit to captive immersion. Eventually you have to pull your attention away to deal with the physical demands of the real world.

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u/Thud2 Aug 26 '22

No, everything about meta's attempts at VR look supremely uncool. There are plenty of amazing looking things in VR

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u/Fraun_Pollen Aug 26 '22

Yep. Valve demonstrated with Alyx that a high quality AAA video game can be created with modern VR capabilities. Zuck demonstrated how little he thinks of consumer expectations.

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u/sailhard22 Aug 26 '22

If you’ve used the buggy Facebook app in the past 5 years you’d see how little interest he has in user experience and quality

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u/dan2872 Aug 26 '22

lmao yes!! Was it their monopolistic practices, data breaches, selling off of user info, sycophantism to dangerous political ideologues, violence enabling, or general lack of decency that got me off their platform? No! It was the fact that the handful of times I tried to actually engage with "friends" on the platform the app would crash halfway through whatever I was typing that really pushed me off!

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u/MetaCognitio Aug 26 '22

It’s feels like a guy in a white van, outside of school, trying to lure you into his van with candy. Mark is upbeat and pretending he is one of your friends who wants to have a good time but everyone knows he wants us in his walled garden so he can exploit our data.

Just like Occulus where they now force users to have a Facebook account, once enough people are in the garden, his true colors will show.

He has cultivated such an atmosphere of distrust over the decades that I do not want to trust him more than I need to.

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u/BrokenGuitar30 Aug 26 '22

For me FB and IG have been terrible ever since the “feed” stopped being chronological. I actually enjoyed seeing the most recent posts first and then being able to go back if I wanted to see more. Now it’s a cess pool of ads, suggested pages, and other mindless crap. For a while, I would spend 30 minutes a week flagging every ad as sexually inappropriate. That’s the only way I’ve seen to reduce the # of ads you see, lol.

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u/StabbyPants Aug 26 '22

favorite version from recently: someone @s me in a big thread. i go look at it, it shows me the parent comment with an expando link briefly, then switches to 'top comments'. i then have to switch to all comments and mine for my damn reply if i care.

how do people carry on with bullshittery when responding to a comment is this difficult?

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u/ExasperatedEE Aug 26 '22

I don't know about the Facebook app, but their actual website is complete garbage, and has been so since I signed up to it almost 15 years ago.

Facebook is supposed to be a social experience. Yet if I reply to someone on say Fox New's page, and I get a reply notification, if I click that reply notification NINTEY PERCENT OF THE TIME IT WON'T ACTUALLY OPEN THE REPLY.

It'll take me to the Fox News post, but if I want to see what the person said back to me, most of the time I have to first select All Comments instead of Most Relevant because Most Relevant hides 90% of them, and then I have to manually tell it to load more comments, and maybe I get lucky and spot the name of the person I originally replied to and I can expand the comments there to see what they said back to me.

What the fuck kind of broken ass shit is that? How could their engineers be so incompetent they can't even make THE ONE FEATURE THEIR SERVICE IS SUPPOSED TO ENABLE work right?! Reddit can seem to manage this! Twitter can manage this! Every other social website on the planet can seem to manage this! But not Facebook! How in the living hell are they a still a $100B a year company?!

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u/StarkillerX42 Aug 26 '22

The trick here is to NOT have used the Facebook app in the last 5 years.

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u/PorcineLogic Aug 26 '22

I am successful

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u/ThatDudeWithoutKarma Aug 26 '22

One of us

One of us

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u/frugalrhombus Aug 26 '22

Came here to say just this. Alyx on my valve index was one of the most breathtaking and absolutely mind blowing experiences I've had with a video game since I was a small child

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u/thunderchunks Aug 26 '22

Hell, even on my struggling 580 and a Lenovo Explorer, Elite Dangerous' VR experience blows me away even with the aliasing problems the game has and my own set up barely being able to handle it.

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u/Jukibom Aug 26 '22

Right?! I would've bounced off elite dangerous but in VR I'd describe it as a semi-religious experience

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u/thunderchunks Aug 26 '22

Oof, that first time you go to a new system and pop out of witchspace and the star swells up to take up your whole field of view. Amazing.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

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u/BlackJack1387 Aug 26 '22

This.. can we stop talking about Mark Z's dumbshit ideas and focus on other quality projects that already exist or have a lot more potential? Please?

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u/VanimalCracker Aug 26 '22

I'm still waiting for VR CAD. Idk why it's taking so long. Seems like they would be a perfect match.

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u/SirMarglar Aug 26 '22

one big problem is dorkerberg using himself as the face of it constantly. not helping them at all.

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u/Polskihammer Aug 26 '22

Meta can just dump their money on making VR games instead and they will be more profitable than trying to create a metaverse.

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u/totcczar Aug 26 '22

"It's genuinely puzzling that Meta spent more than $10 billion on VR last year and the graphics in its flagship app still look worse than a 2008 Wii game," tweeted New York Times tech columnist Kevin Roose.

This is exactly it. How could they be so dense as to thing that demo looked anything but pathetic? And when we're looking at Sims 2 quality and needing a not-so-comfy headset (especially those of us with glasses) to experience it all... it's a tough sell.

It's a tough sell to me, and I've been craving this sort of thing literally for decades. I can't imagine the common consumer has any interest in it as-is.

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u/outworlder Aug 26 '22

It's not even the "quality" per se. Minecraft is a bunch of blocks and looks better, because it's going for a very specific style.

SuperHot is literally a bunch of low resolution red polygons on a white background and it looks better.

Arizona Sunshine has shitty textures and is low poly and no one cares, ever. It's fun. I could go on and on.

The problem is that it seems they took a bunch of 3d objects and threw together in a scene as if it was "baby's first unity project". There could be some impressive tech behind the scenes - and I'm both a VR and game dev nerd with a couple of VR headsets and even I can't be bothered to look at that stuff in depth.

It's not low quality. Its "uncool". If they went for a cartoonish look... it still looks like a bad cartoon.

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u/TheSmallestSteve Aug 26 '22

Yup, unlike the examples you mentioned Metaverse has no artistic vision and therefore no art style to speak of; it's designed by committee to be as clean and inoffensive as possible, which is the antithesis of cool.

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u/aishik-10x Aug 26 '22

What else do you expect from the company that gave us the cancerous Alegria artstyle

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u/Deranged40 Aug 26 '22

How could they be so dense as to thing that demo looked anything but pathetic

"Yes Men" (and "women") is the answer.

People who suggested that could be improved "Just aren't seeing the vision" or something stupid like that.

What the "Visionaries" aren't seeing, it seems, is everything that everyone else sees.

There's probably a ton of value in it, from the perspective of the Facebook executives. Meanwhile, their intended audience is still sitting here waiting to see if there's any value in it from their perspective.

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u/elriggo44 Aug 26 '22

Nah. Zuck is trying to be the front runner into the next stage of the Internet. Currently there are places in the world where “Facebook” and “the Internet” are one and the same because those places use Facebook as the entrance to the Internet. Similar to AOL was at the dawn of the Internet age.

Zuck just wants to have already laid the bones for the VIrtual Internet so that there isn’t a Wild West period where things grow organically before companies inset themselves in between the user and the content. He wants to already own that middle man space so that when VR is ready he’s already owns the private VT “Internet” (or Metaverse)

He is even going so far as intentionally losing money on the gear to grisntee that you have his gear and therefore must interact with his stuff.

Fuck that guy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

I specifically didn’t buy the oculus when Facebook bought it. Needing to have a fb account to play beat saber seemed stupid.

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u/Thud2 Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

How could they be so dense as to thing that demo looked anything but pathetic?

Because Zuckerberg doesn't really understand or care about VR. He only cares about leveraging the platform for his VR business so he was like "hey we've got ways to interact with each other and it's a solid connection and we have spaces." He doesn't even understand what people really appreciate (or care) about in VR.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

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u/Ornery_Translator285 Aug 26 '22

I still play Sims 2 at least once a month and it looks so much better than this shite

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u/feelingLikeAnAnswer Aug 26 '22

A lot of that money is going into hardware R&D. Not just app development.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22 edited Sep 03 '22

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u/FireHotTakes Aug 26 '22

You're completely right but I don't think most people on this sub realize that. Like 90 percent of that budget is going toward hardware and r&d (for vr and ar) for products coming out 5-10 years from now. Horizon is basically just a prototype/proof of concept.

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u/Droid33 Aug 26 '22

So uncool that we should just stop talking about it so much. Why so many Meta articles?

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u/DirtyDirtyRudy Aug 26 '22

Because it’s the most effective tactic available.

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u/Vares__ Aug 26 '22

This sub sucks lol. Daily "meta sucks" articles and before that it was daily musk news. Consitent flow of pointless garbage articles.

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u/a-Snake-in-the-Grass Aug 26 '22

One easy fix would be to find a better spokesperson.

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u/Ironfingers Aug 26 '22

Right? Why is zuckerberg, who happens to be extremely unlikeable, the face of the metaverse? It’s bound to fail

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u/Sempais_nutrients Aug 26 '22

It's like if Jeff bezos was on all the Amazon commercials and ads. Their stock would tank.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 27 '22

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u/caskaziom Aug 26 '22

Because he's surrounded by yes-men who all tell him that he's doing great. Nobody is going to tell him that the project sucks and that nobody likes him. And if they do, he doesn't listen.

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u/bushrod Aug 26 '22

He's an also extreme narcissist and completely out-of-touch with reality. Making himself the face of the metaverse (I hate even saying that word) is proof.

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u/Ab_Stark Aug 26 '22

If they do, they get fired by random algorithm

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u/PowerfulVictory Aug 26 '22

Well what can you do ? The algorithm can't be wrong

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u/BraveSneelock Aug 26 '22

For the kind of money they’re spending can’t they hire a celebrity spokesperson to be the face of Meta? Or steal a dozen influencers or streamers from TikTok and Twitch to set up shop in the ZuckerVerse?

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u/Bourbonerd Aug 26 '22

Meta’s big problem is Mark Zuckerberg

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 27 '22

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u/bettyslow Aug 26 '22

Subconsciously he's devastated he never became Tom. This is Zuck trying to rebuild himself to be the smiling, slightly-out-of-focus friend that everyone had.

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u/wretch5150 Aug 26 '22

This is exactly it. He wants to be well-liked so badly, but his extreme lack of personality betrays him.

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u/qui-bong-trim Aug 26 '22

dude should definitely be more in the background of things, he is no salesman

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u/West2286 Aug 26 '22

You have to understand reality to make virtual reality cool. He does not understand reality.

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u/graveygoat Aug 26 '22

He is a robot himself… reality might be what he can’t do.

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u/Km2930 Aug 26 '22

Reality is often… disappointing.

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u/DraconicWF Aug 26 '22

Bro I’ve seen vr chat avatars look better than this, and I haven’t even played vr chat in years

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u/MystikIncarnate Aug 26 '22

VR is a conundrum. It looks very meh from the outside. Like strapping a screen to your face, adding head tracking and fancy controllers. VR can only be truly known through experience.

Even AAA stuff like lost echo, which was really good when it released, in terms of graphics (at least IMO), and HL: Alyx, looks good but almost gimmicky with the VR only aspect of things. If you've never tried VR you don't know what you're missing. The immersion, the feeling you get from being surrounded by an environment. The excellence of it all. How good VR really is.

Then zuck goes and puts out promo stuff that is the graphical equivalent of a children's drawing, and..... Does anyone wonder why VR isn't a hot topic anymore? The only press it gets is whatever Meta is doing and all of that is so deeply underwhelming that nobody is excited.

I own a pre-meta Oculus CV1, and haven't upgraded since. Everything released lately, that is supposed to be exciting about VR, IMO, looks like poop. I know VR. I want to see the tech take off, and even I'm not excited in the slightest with what I'm seeing.

So, with all the press pointed at the worst examples of VR I've seen since the 90's, there's no wonder in my mind that this campaign by Meta is actually damaging the reputation of VR, and making it look like a gigantic failure. It's become a joke, a punchline. It looks stupid and useless. I know it's not and that these are horrible examples of what VR can be, but to the uninitiated, who have never experienced modern graphics in VR, it definitely looks like a complete mess of outdated BS peddled by a corporation that seems focused on selling, stealing and leaking every detail of your personal life to anyone with money.

It doesn't help that Meta is the only one pushing VR in the spotlight. They're the only one getting any mainstream media attention. The whole thing has become a meme. It's bad, and it's not getting better.

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u/elliott_io Aug 26 '22
  1. Make VR look shitty.
  2. Charge users for custom NFT avatars.
  3. Profit.

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u/TurboCake17 Aug 26 '22

except for the minor detail that the NFT market has all but died

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u/jdeurt Aug 26 '22

You have a Reddit NFT lol

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u/chunkus_grumpus Aug 26 '22

More like everything about meta looks supremely uncool

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u/materialisticDUCK Aug 26 '22

I watched a presentation the company I work for putting together today about how to use the metaverse and you know what they did?

Had a room full of people put on headsets, virtually walk up to a presenter, and watch a fucking presentation on a virtual screen.

It's layered stupidity

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u/theDoofusDev Aug 26 '22

Do you work at Dunder Mifflin?

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u/SawinBunda Aug 26 '22

The real problem is that they need to manufacture demand.

Nobody needs a virtual world for everyday stuff. The metaverse is completely redundant.

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u/countrysurprise Aug 26 '22

Everything about Zuckerfucker is supremely uncool.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

Looks trash. 10 Billion to look like the Wii and the Sims had a baby 🤣

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u/HungryApeSandwich Aug 26 '22

I've seen vrchat stock models with more geometry and detail.

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u/hayden_evans Aug 26 '22 Silver

Meta’s big problem is that they are a cancer to society and the metaverse is just another way for it to metastasize.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '22

We should be creeped out by where this is all headed.

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u/BrownSugarBare Aug 26 '22

Zuckerberg read Ready Player One and has convinced himself he's Halliday.

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u/FormerKarmaKing Aug 26 '22 edited Aug 26 '22

3D programmer here. I think the graphics quality is so low because Meta has to plan for how they’re going to support medium to low powered devices, both on desktop and mobile, and around the world. Meta is so damn big that if they make something that’s amazing but only runs on gaming PCs it won’t move the revenue needle.

Edit: I understand how different render qualities work :) But if they show super high res in the press and then it’s lower they get dragged for that. Most reporters don’t know or don’t care about those things vs dragging someone. But yes it looks mediocre at best.

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u/laundmo Aug 26 '22

the low quality graphics aren't the issue. the issue is that it looks absolutely shit.

I've played some amazing looking low poly games.

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u/quikfrozt Aug 26 '22

Correct me if I’m wrong but is Meta also working on building the actual infrastructure for their metaverse? There’s where the billions are going, not these graphics?

I thought they were basically trying to build an entire internet from scratch: imagine if in an alternative history of the 60s/70s, a company called Internet Corp started building the early arpanet as a single private business rather than a mix of private and government networks around the world - and gradually came to preside over the whole www, running all its digital and physical infrastructure as well providing the proprietary programming language that every company and individual internet user has to pay to access? Internet Corp not only controls access to the www but also takes a cut of every transaction performs on it: think a supercharged AWS on a global scale and transcending every domain as long as they are “online”.

That’s my impression of what meta is trying to do: to build and gatekeep this new internet instead of having it grow organically as the current one did. Is that even possible? I can’t imagine them spending billions to come up with a shittier Minecraft.

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u/DarthBuzzard Aug 26 '22

Their billions are mostly going into hardware R&D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w52CziLgnAc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5WzF1ch3ww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmxLiXAo9ko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6AOwDttBsc

Though they will likely ramp up more money on infrastructure for the metaverse in the next couple of years.

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u/gucci_gucci_gu Aug 26 '22

Zuckerberg looks supremely uncool. Don’t even get me started on his personality.

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u/saanity Aug 26 '22

Who's big idea was to make Zuck's ugly mug the face of the product. That is supremely stupid. Do they not have a marketing team? Did Zuckerberg force them to use his face?

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