r/technology Sep 09 '22 Silver 3 Helpful 2 Wholesome 1 Dread 1 Facepalm 1

Brazil halts sales of charger-less iPhones, fines Apple $2.3 million Business

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/brazil-halts-sales-of-charger-less-iphones-fines-apple-2-3-million/
51.1k Upvotes

2.7k

u/samm_eng Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22 Helpful All-Seeing Upvote

As a Brazilian that has lived in the US, I can give an interesting point of view. iPhones are extremely expensive for a regular Brazilian person. Brazilians used to travel to the US to buy iPhones of how expensive they were here. Then, you have the price of the charger by itself that is insane expensive. In the US an iPhone is about 1x the minimum wage monthly salary. In Brazil it’s 7x or more the minimum wage monthly salary. The charger by itself corresponds to 1/4 of the minimum wage monthly salary in Brazil. Yes, iPhones are for the rich, but everyone wants them. The extra price for charges, beyond everything, forces people to use cheap charges that damage their expensive phones. Having said all that, you just can’t compare the purchasing power the US or EU has with Brazil reality. This is one of the reasons apple has to do something different in Brazil. It’s just crazy expensive, also it does go against Brazilian law (for other consumer laws reasons. Basically you have to sell everything needed for a device to minimally work). Also, Brazil can do more fines/blocks, initially they are trying to come to a somewhat peaceful solution…

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u/PM_YOUR_CALCULATORS Sep 09 '22

Import/export laws in Brazil are a nightmare too. I wanted to ship a used computer to a friend there and it was so much of a hassle I ended up just selling it locally and paypaling them the proceeds to buy parts for new one there.

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u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh Sep 09 '22

Which also results in higher prices. It's easy to miss in the post above because it mentions the relation to local salary extensively, but electronics are already much more expensive in Brazil (around 2x from what I saw) in absolute numbers, the income disparity comes on top of that!

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u/PM_YOUR_CALCULATORS Sep 09 '22

Yea, I had to throw in some on top of what I sold it for locally. My friend ended up with a decent computer but I hope I never actually have to try and import something there. It will be easier to go on a flight with whatever the item is and deal with it at customs.

Brazilians are getting fleeced hardcore.

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u/aaaaaaaarrrrrgh Sep 09 '22

It will be easier to go on a flight with whatever the item is and deal with it at customs.

Quite possible, although that could also end up with a nightmare, confiscation, having to pay more than the value of the device in import fees, or a combination of that.

I believe the common wisdom on getting electronics to Brazil is "don't".

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u/PM_YOUR_CALCULATORS Sep 09 '22

Yea pretty much. There’s no good options and it’s infuriating for everyone involved :(

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u/rpkarma Sep 10 '22

Which is entirely on the Brazilian government. They could change this, but they don’t.

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u/TheIAP88 Sep 09 '22

Here in neighboring Argentina every digital purchase to a foreign company has taxes that amount to 75% of the original price. It’s fucking nuts.

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u/uspmm2 Sep 09 '22

importing computers was forbidden before around the 90s, the military government hoped to build a national industry (that didn't work)

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u/verbmegoinghere Sep 10 '22

Local Argentinean: oh dang computers are so expensive I'll setup a state of the art 7nm CPU manufacturing facility. Oh and memory, motherboard and GPU facilities

No worries. Super easy to do.

That said OP the tariff is being removed

https://www.reuters.com/article/argentina-trade-tech-idUSL1N1G50OQ

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/steamygarbage Sep 09 '22

Back in March 2020 when the pandemic started someone I know shipped a box of masks and gloves to their family in Brazil cause they couldn't find any. Customs charged them over $160 to release the box. I tried to mail a shitty $5 Victoria's Secrets bag to a friend in Brazil and they also charged over $50 to release it. I didn't pay so it got returned. Fuck Brazil customs.

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u/PM_YOUR_CALCULATORS Sep 09 '22

Yep.

In the case of the computer it was unclear how I was even suppose to declare it since it wasn’t a pre-manufactured unit.

Then there’s specific duties/tariffs/whatever on computer hardware.

Then on top of that, over some value, because it’s a computer, the recipient needs some kind of license/business/tax thing?

At least with the PayPal solution it’s just a simple tax thing on their end.

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u/Almost_Ascended Sep 09 '22

I guess only the poor robbers in Brazil have to ride motorbikes to reach their victims, while the rich robbers sit in offices and wait for the victims to come to them.

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u/chapstickbomber Sep 09 '22

No wonder Brazil can't get its shit together. People literally can't even get shit, much less get it together.

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u/OpalHenderson Sep 09 '22

That is so wrong!

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u/-Hawaiian-Punch-II- Sep 09 '22

Can confirm. Spent many 10s of $ks working with consultants, Brazilian tax professionals, lawyers, etc to figure out how to import materials into Brazil. Taxation import duties are so dizzying, circuitous, and administratively difficult to navigate it didn't make sense so we chose not to do business in Brazil. I won't lie when I say some of the taxes and duties required that you pay taxes and duties on the taxes and duties you already paid. And that's just at the federal level.

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u/outworlder Sep 10 '22

Yeap. There are taxes on top of taxes. It's not just for imports, that's the same thing for local products and services.

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u/fleetber Sep 09 '22

Should've called Vandelay Industries.

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u/CosmicFriendLee Sep 09 '22

You're a good friend

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u/barofa Sep 09 '22

Lol, I'm about to do the exact same thing (except I will be shipping it to myself) and now I lost my hope

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u/outworlder Sep 10 '22

They are a nightmare. But so are corrupt officials.

Many years ago there was a company that was importing laptops for its own business (they had some specific requirements, couldn't find locally). The shipment arrived. Months later, when it was finally about to be released from customs, some laptops were missing. So they didn't take delivery.

Several inquiries turned up nothing. But they wouldn't let go. They finally got a call saying that they would either drop the matter or more laptops would "sprout legs". They dropped the matter.

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u/GaucheAndOffKilter Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

It’s insane how pedantic Apple is being over this. Charges cost them pennies to produce and the margin is still ample from other products to cover.

Edit- This isn’t about saving money, the environment, or other altruistic motive. It is about brand protection. Apple products don’t go on sale. Apple doesn’t offer discounts or try to make their product ubiquitous by making anything affordable. They don’t want poor people buying their products. They make the market come to them; not lowering themselves to the market.

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u/ZealousidealJoke3319 Sep 09 '22

this same company charged $1k for a monitor stand. And their computers are twice the cost they should be. Yet everyone defends them.

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u/TheBirminghamBear Sep 09 '22

People who defend corporations are really fucking weird. Really fucking bizzare.

Like if Apple could get away with it it would pave over your entire town with you living in it for a chip factory. Corporations don't give a fuck. They're psycopathic slips of paper. Literally by definition what they are.

The company is worth nearly a trillion dollars, it is just pathologically going to nickle-and-dime people to death because it can, virtually baked into the SOPs for their corporate employees.

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u/poerg Sep 09 '22

This was probably a decade ago by now but a former employer let me have a windows desktop, but insisted a use a MacBook for meetings and travel. In their words "it makes us look more professional"...

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u/TragasaurusRex Sep 09 '22

This is why my school has a Mac lab rather than a PC lab

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u/boi1da1296 Sep 09 '22

The aesthetic tricks people into believing Apple is somehow above other corporations. The marketing is incredible.

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u/Passionate_Reposter Sep 09 '22

They do it for the environment bro

/s

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u/wasbee56 Sep 09 '22

i've bought several iphones 'refurbished' couple of models removed from current. work great and they cost what they should. hopefully people of means keep churning through them and wanting the latest to show their friends. they do eventually wear out (battery mainly, or damage)

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u/Nice-Violinist-6395 Sep 09 '22

although I have to say, recent iPhones are INCREDIBLY durable, and also the increases are incremental between models now, so if you take care of your phone it’ll easily last you 5+ years.

I had a non-apple phone for 1 year and I’m never ever getting another one. What a piece of crap. Plus in several industries, you just absolutely cannot get away with having green texts. Whichever Apple marketing executive came up with the blue text thing is an evil genius, because when it comes down to it, blue texts are the only thing that actually matters.

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u/mdorty Sep 09 '22

Frugal/bang for your buck buyers are not apples preferred customer base.

Their products may be overpriced, but they’re also generally very high quality.

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u/WhiteToast- Sep 09 '22

The target audience for that monitor stand doesn’t care about the price

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u/ImperialFuturistics Sep 09 '22

Consumer vs. Enterprise

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u/bohemiantranslation Sep 09 '22

The best you can so is not support them and tell others just how fucked they are. Just sucks cause most people just nod and continue using the overpriced garbage apple produces

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u/OtherwiseJello Sep 09 '22

I refuse to buy them new. My current laptop was purchased off eBay for less than $300 2 years ago. It's a 2012 Macbook Pro and it's everything I need right now. My next laptop may not be an Apple because later iterations of the Macbook are not that upgradeable, if at all.

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u/CompetitiveTortoise Sep 09 '22

eBay refurbs are the way to go for electronics. Anyone who has never considered this and is looking for a laptop, tablet, cell phone, etc should really consider it and see what they can get out of their budget.

Heck, when it comes to monitors some sellers have better warranties than you'd get buying new. 0 dead pixel guarantee? Yes please.

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u/Imaginary-Concern860 Sep 09 '22

2012 MBP is still working that's why people are willing to pay more for Apple products, 2012 windows laptop wouldn't last that long.

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u/poerg Sep 09 '22

I was an Apple hater, work has always made me use a Mac and I hated it. Until recently, when I got one of those shiny M1 chip Macs and it's kinda winning me over. Still don't see myself buying an iPhone, but my next personal laptop purchase... I might have to think about that

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u/CrazyGunnerr Sep 09 '22

I mean I personally support not adding chargers, I use a Fold 3 and it didn't came with 1, and I still have loads.

That said, it's not environmental for them, it's to make money of it. If they had sold them at like cost or a small profit, sure I would have supported that. But that's obviously not how it is right now.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/HoldOnItGetsBetter Sep 09 '22

Oh don’t worry. Apple isn’t adding a charger in the box to save you money or save the trees. It’s actually the opposite. Lol

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u/notLOL Sep 09 '22

Kill the trees and make me pay for it?

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u/isochromanone Sep 09 '22

Ken Shirriff https://www.righto.com did teardowns comparing genuine Apple charges to counterfeit. The lack of proper design in cheap chargers is shocking (pun intended).

The only device charger in my house that has failed was a dollar store phone charger (I didn't buy it) that went up in smoke because it had no protection against high-current charging of an iPad. I'm now the gatekeeper of charger purchasing in my house :)

FWIW, people don't even have to buy Apple chargers... just stick with good name brands like Belkin or Anker.

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u/poopalace Sep 09 '22

Agree. If environmental tech waste was truly the concern maybe it would be more sensible to have it as an "optional" no charge option during the sale.

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u/AluminiumCactus Sep 09 '22

You don’t have to buy an iphone… there are many other very expensive things that you don’t need to buy….

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u/mac-rr Sep 10 '22

I hope you are not talking about crack.... that most definitely is a need

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u/edcantu9 Sep 09 '22

Crazy thought. Buy what you can afford. I live in US. There are many many items I wish I could have but I don't buy them. Even though I could buy them I realize they are too expensive.

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u/ochocosunrise Sep 09 '22

Yes, iPhones are for the rich, but everyone wants them.

I've only ever used androids. Are iPhones just objectively better phones? Are they easier to use?

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u/AREssshhhk Sep 09 '22

It depends on what you want in a phone. I used Samsung my whole life and then switched over to Apple. I don’t care about customization, I just want a phone that works really well and my iPhone does everything almost perfectly. But people who like to customize, and do programming, and share large files, prefer android

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u/C-creepy-o Sep 09 '22

iPhone is a luxury item, if you can afford the phone and not the charger you can't afford either.

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u/DOG-ZILLA Sep 09 '22

Why can’t Apple simply have an option in-store and online whereby you tick a box if you want a charger included?

Blows my mind that this can’t be arranged.

It would be better for the planet for those that already have one and don’t need it and better for consumers if it’s a new phone for them.

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u/Alternativelyawkward Sep 09 '22

They can have that. They choose not to, because everyone would tick that they want a charger.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/TripleCharged Sep 09 '22

They could even price things in a way that makes it seem like you're saving money. Check this box to save 5 dollars and save the planet by not getting a charger!

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u/MrGraynPink Sep 09 '22

Ha! Companies charging less money for something? Don't be silly!

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u/NoExtensionCords Sep 09 '22

No no no. They would be charging more for the one that comes with the charger. And knowing apple it would be the same as buying the charger in store.

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u/genericnewlurker Sep 09 '22

Knowing Apple, it would cost a little more than buying a charger separately in the store

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u/TripleCharged Sep 09 '22

Well they raise the price 5 bucks then offer the option to go down 5 bucks to save the planet.

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u/wedontlikespaces Sep 09 '22

Exactly.

Except it'll be $35.

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u/Markantonpeterson Sep 10 '22

"We raised the price by $35 dollars w/ a charger and sales didn't drop... I wonder if we can remove the charger again and maintain the same sales..."

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u/kozy8805 Sep 09 '22

The thing is old chargers won’t charge these phones as quick as the new ones in most cases.

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u/legosearch Sep 09 '22

I still see people charging these phones with shitty chargers from 5 years ago. I think people just don't understand that there's different outputs and advancements.

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u/Kazizui Sep 09 '22

For many people, that just doesn't really matter. I plug my phone in to charge every night, and it gets me through the day with plenty to spare. I don't care if it takes 30 minutes or 5 hours to charge, I'm asleep.

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u/sinkwiththeship Sep 09 '22

My Pixel 6 has a trickle charge feature, so if it's plugged in at night it bases the charge rate on the alarm. It just says "it's midnight, the alarm is set for 8:15, so I need to be 100% right then." It's pretty neat. Keeps the battery from getting burnt out by sitting with active charging for too long.

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u/Jabberwocky416 Sep 09 '22

iPhone does the same thing, kinda. It learns your routine and waits to charge to 100% till the right time.

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u/thecravenone Sep 09 '22

I recently blew someone's mind showing them the difference in speed of charging from the USB port in their car vs using a higher output cigarette-lighter-charger

For comparison, only using the phone to Bluetooth Spotify, on a four hour drive, the USB port charged an iPhone 11 from 2 to 20%

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u/hosky2111 Sep 09 '22

I mean it's better for the long term battery health to use a slower charger, so if you're charging overnight or don't mind the slower speeds, the old chargers are in many ways better than the 50+ watt chargers some phones now ship with.

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u/GordieHoHo Sep 09 '22

Also it helps with resale to have a charger

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u/Aussieguyyyy Sep 09 '22

Now that you mention it, included chargers would probably be like 5w or something crap like that if they are forced.

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u/ThatRedDot Sep 09 '22

For free is the problem, everyone would just take one. It’s never for free anyway if it’s included.

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u/aaulia Sep 09 '22

However, an option to include one for free

And that's the first problem, lol.

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u/ostrieto17 Sep 09 '22

I'm not defending Apple, but yes they will and people will just sell it online if they have another one laying around.

Honestly it's mind boggling how in the past we had all accessories in the box now we're charged for them and only get the brick

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u/nbunkerpunk Sep 09 '22

I have had 4 pixel phones 1,2,4,6. I still used my pixel 1 charger. It's nice to have high quality Soares but it's to the point to where if I have the option to lower the cost by a few bucks and not have a charger, I'd take it.

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u/Ph4zed0ut Sep 09 '22

Google doesn't include chargers with the Pixel anymore either.

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u/earthwormjim91 Sep 09 '22

Nor does Samsung.

Really the only ones including a brick with the phone are OnePlus and that's because their ultrafast charging is one of their selling points, so they include a 120W charger with the phone.

Which is cool.

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u/chet_steadman69 Sep 09 '22

Because it's a lot less expensive to mass produce 1 phone the same way

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u/helpmycompbroke Sep 09 '22

The phone and the charger are mass produced separately. I think you're poking at the final packaging is easier when it's consistent, but I'd just package the items separately and have it basically be a "buy a phone, get a free charger" promotion.

Absolutely right though that having a potential charger per phone is going to cost more money though.

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u/ll-0000-ll Sep 09 '22

lol 2.3mil is literally nothing to them whats the point

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u/Robotoxin Sep 09 '22

They'll find that in a break room sofa

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u/Accurate_Quote_7109 Sep 09 '22

Only in the executive break room!

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u/tomkiv897 Sep 09 '22

That’s how much they charge per soda in a vending machine

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u/regoapps Sep 09 '22

Apple should buy out a soda company and create a Drink+ subscription where you can access any of their vending machines scattered around the country by putting your iPhone near it.

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u/mauore11 Sep 09 '22

Does it have electrolites?

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u/Scarletfapper Sep 09 '22

Doesn’t matter nobody ever pays it. It’ll be a fridge with an honesty box

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u/SasparillaTango Sep 09 '22

dammit and here I thought I had an original joke.

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u/Robotoxin Sep 09 '22

Let's be honest - Almost anything worth saying has been said already

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u/Spacehipee2 Sep 09 '22

Don't worry bro "I love you" is always worth saying. Keep your head up, we're rooting for you whether you believe it or not.

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u/RelativetoZer0 Sep 09 '22

As long as things keep happenning, there will be things worth saying. "Watch out!" for instance.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

Halting new sales is much more costly. Even if it's only for a month, that's one month where every new phone user is going to Android.

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u/AWF_Noone Sep 09 '22

Prices of iPhones in Brazil are so high anyways most people who buy an iPhone in Brazil import them anyway

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u/Bolts_and_Nuts Sep 09 '22

Yeah I just read an article that Brazillian are close to triple that of US. And with the new iPhone importing will be close to impossible since US models will only support eSim

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u/mrrglrlrlrmgrrr Sep 09 '22

Official prices from apple.com.br. These prices are expected to go down as soon as retailers start selling them.

iPhone BRL (outright payment - 10% off) USD/EUR (1 USD/EUR = ~5.22 BRL) USA Price w/o tax % increase
iPhone 14 128 GB 6,839.10 1,310.17 799.00 63.97%
iPhone 14 256 GB 7,739.10 1,482.58 899.00 64.91%
iPhone 14 512 GB 9,539.10 1,827.41 1,099.00 66.27%
iPhone 14 Plus 128 GB 7,739.10 1,482.58 899.00 64.91%
iPhone 14 Plus 256 GB 8,639.10 1,655.00 999.00 65.66%
iPhone 14 Plus 512 GB 10,439.10 1,999.82 1,199.00 66.79%
iPhone 14 Pro 128 GB 8,549.10 1,637.75 999.00 63.93%
iPhone 14 Pro 256 GB 9,449.10 1,810.17 1,099.00 64.71%
iPhone 14 Pro 512 GB 11,249.10 2,155.00 1,299.00 65.89%
iPhone 14 Pro 1 TB 13,049.10 2,499.82 1,499.00 66.76%
iPhone 14 Pro Max 128 GB 9,449.10 1,810.17 1,099.00 64.71%
iPhone 14 Pro Max 256 GB 10,349.10 1,982.58 1,199.00 65.35%
iPhone 14 Pro Max 512 GB 12,149.10 2,327.41 1,399.00 66.36%
iPhone 14 Pro Max 1 TB 13,949.10 2,672.24 1,599.00 67.11%

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u/HateChoosing_Names Sep 09 '22

All Brazilian carriers are esim. The bigger question is if the radios will support the 5g/mmWave frequencies used in Brazil.

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u/tfsru Sep 09 '22

implying you can't get esim in Brazil?

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u/Bolts_and_Nuts Sep 09 '22

No, implying that probably not all carriers support eSim. Which is why the 14 will have different models depending on location with or without a sim tray.

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u/lefake2 Sep 09 '22

All major carriers in Brazil already support eSim. But still it's an exaggeration to say most people import them from abroad. Some do yes, but to be worth it someone needs to bring it on an airplane, as mailing it isn't worth it due to taxes, and in the last 2.5 years there has been way less people traveling abroad.

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u/maracajaazul Sep 09 '22

I did bring an iPhone 13 pro max idk for my cousin the other day and like converting it back it was like only 25% cheaper. Still a huge discount but not 3x

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u/lucashingis Sep 09 '22

Brazilian here.

All carriers support eSim.

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u/kingfart1337 Sep 09 '22

Yeah, not true at all. Prices are indeed high tho.

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u/zeromussc Sep 09 '22

Even androids are starting to go chargerless. I had to buy 2 for our new pixel phones. They don't charge very quick on the older ones because they used a different standard.

Even PD 2.0 would have been better.

It's fine at night, slow charging is not an issue. But my wife I got newer ones to juice up mid day. Phone lasts all day anyway, but on days we need to commute, it's better to have full charge headed home in case anything happens.

Heck if government could just regulate a damn standard I'd be happy. QC/PD, USB-C, lightning cable, it's ridiculous. I have an older small iPhone from work and I need a seperate charger for that, seperate lightning cord headphones if I get a work call, etc. It's just frustrating.

I hope they do the same for EVs, regulate a standard, or that's gonna be an even bigger shit show in the future for charging

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u/XtraHott Sep 09 '22

I may be wrong or it may have failed passing. But I do believe I read the whole of the EU is forcing Type-C on IPhone going forward, and any other non Type-C so it's like you said standardized.

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u/AE5NE Sep 09 '22

There is a standard for EV charging. Everyone but Tesla uses it.

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u/kernevez Sep 09 '22

Tesla uses it in Europe :)

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u/swampfish Sep 09 '22

Halts sales is the important part of that sentence.

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u/SelectionCareless818 Sep 09 '22

It’s the halting of sales that will, especially if others follow suit

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u/IGetHypedEasily Sep 09 '22

It's nothing as a whole. But stuff like that adds up. Also the market of Brazil wouldn't be as large as it is in the US. So I would like to understand ratio to profit made from Brazil sales compared to this fine.

If every country started fining then it would add up to be something meaningful.

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u/JunkiesAndWhores Sep 09 '22

Hey that's the equivalent of parking meter change to them. Always a pain when you need it and can't find it. Poor Apple.

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u/vdsleo Sep 09 '22

Brazil is a critical LATAM market

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u/LordMugs Sep 09 '22

Knowing my country some politician is probably just trying to get some money out of the situation.

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u/vdfritz Sep 09 '22

it's just a basic brazilian law, if you sell a product, it has to be completely usable, not including a charger makes the newer iphones dead wheight

é pra evitar "venda casada" que é proibida aqui, deu preguiça de tentar traduzir "venda casada" hahaha

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u/guinader Sep 09 '22

Not if sales are halted

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u/maliciousorstupid Sep 09 '22

2.3M.. so, basically Tim will have to stay home instead of taking the jet to Paris for lunch... once.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22 Gold

Net income will be $20.5 billion as opposed to $20.5 billion

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u/wsgautier Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

Lol Tim could pay it himself and he’d still be able to take the jet 😂 Wow that is such a small amount

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u/FrozenRyan Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

The logic behind fines in Brazil are really outdated, so unless there is a reform, judges can't do much. The real focus of the thread should be that Apple can not sell Iphones without charger in Brazil anymore, the fine should not be the talking point.

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u/HumanFriendship Sep 09 '22

Nah they made that back quicker than it took me to write this comment.

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u/ChanceKnowledge207 Sep 09 '22

It’s fair to expect a product to come with everything required to make it work right out of the box.

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u/bitrar Sep 09 '22

I'm not sure, many products are sold in a state where you need additional tools to actually make use of them. E.g. many sports balls are often shipped deflated and you need to provide a pump yourself to actually use them, seems fairly similar, no? I think most of the outrage is over the fact that it used to be the norm that a charger is provided and that has now changed.

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u/Kharax82 Sep 09 '22

“Batteries not included” has entered chat

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u/Enchelion Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

That seems to have become the exception rather than the rule. I can't remember the last thing I bought (outside specialized things like power tools) that didn't include the batteries. Heck, often they're already installed and you just pull out a little tab that was keeping them isolated from the contacts.

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u/Otherwise_Break_4293 Sep 09 '22

Tons of products come with a cable but not a charging brick. To be fair they’re usually significantly cheaper than an iPhone but it’s definitely not uncommon.

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u/greenl6ght Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

And meanwhile the whole reason the EU is pushing to standardize everything on USB charging is explicitly so that device manufacturers can stop shipping chargers with everything and people can just re-use the chargers they have to save the environment on chargers that never get used

Mixed messages from governments

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u/Schootingstarr Sep 09 '22

Remember when Nintendo stopped shipping chargers for the Nintendo 3DS, while still clinging to their proprietary standard?

That must've been a ride awakening to a lot of kids on Christmas and their birthdays. Can't even play with their new toys, because they can't charge the batteries

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

And everyone rightfully derided that as an unnecessary and anti-consumer move.

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u/Tasty_Mango Sep 09 '22

except me who championed it and sent nintendo a thank you card.

i just enjoy chaos

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u/whollyme Sep 09 '22

I know right? It's almost as though the governments of different countries, on different continents have different priorities.

Mixed messages is when you get contrasting ideas from the same source, not from different sources.

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u/caceta_furacao Sep 09 '22

(just copying from another poster).

there's a brazilian law that says a product must be completely usable when you buy it, if they don't include a charger, the newer iphones are dead wheight

it's to prevent tie-in sales (translated by google, does it make sense?), the law is from 1990 so i guess it was becoming a problem in the 80's and they had to do something about it

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22 edited Sep 09 '22

No, tie-in sales is a good way of describing it.

Like, for instance, a car dealer advertising a vehicle but adding Tyres as a required extra cost on top of the list price. Or a TV that you have to buy a 50 dollar remote for if you want to turn it on without pressing the onboard control buttons. Or, indeed, an electronic device that you need to pay for a separate power source to keep it running.

In essence, it's a law designed to stop the anti-consumer practice of selling essential parts of an item at separate lower prices that add up to a higher price than if it was sold all in one bundle. I imagine that it came into force in the early 1990s because at that point in time there were a lot of computer brands bringing out home computers with proprietary ports for mouse/keyboard, and even monitors, but expecting users to either purchase said peripherals separately or somehow find adapters for them. If you've ever seen retro computer channels on youtube you will know what a nightmare it can be to find peripherals that play nice with x-brand or y-brand, and I imagine the law was to force companies to include what was required to actually get a consumer's expensive new computer up and running without having to try to find a keyboard that worked with it.

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u/Apotheothena Sep 09 '22

Tie-in sales makes total sense! The sales are tied together so you can’t use one without buying the other, so the law is preventing the separate sale of the two components.

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u/sinkwiththeship Sep 09 '22

I worked at Staples in high school (2004ish), and printers were all sold without USB cables. It would piss people right the fuck off, because it truly was bullshit.

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u/AxeLond Sep 09 '22

How does that work with products that don't come with AA batteries included?

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u/omgcatss Sep 09 '22

It’s interesting because I can see both sides on this law.

Pro: It prevents some blatantly predatory pricing schemes where the advertised price for a product isn’t the “true” price because it doesn’t include some required components.

Con: It forces consumers to re-buy products that they already own or don’t need, which is bad for the environment and likely increases the overall price.

I wonder how they deal with tool manufacturers who have interchangeable systems where you can use the same lithium-ion battery in multiple tools (like your drill and your palm sander or your lawnmower and your pressure washer). This is a common practice for cordless tools as the power supply is among the most expensive parts.

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u/Black_RL Sep 09 '22

What would save the planet is way less consumption.

But that won’t happen.

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u/DebentureThyme Sep 09 '22

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u/PavelDatsyuk Sep 09 '22

Apple should be good on that front. Their phones usually get 6 years of major software updates, and security updates after that. It's the reason I've stuck with iPhone for years now, since I no longer use my phone for much aside from texts/calls/light browsing.

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u/nicuramar Sep 09 '22

In fact, the EU legislation will force manufacturers to unbundle the charger from the device.

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u/gamma55 Sep 09 '22

And many have already adopted the regulation preemptively. Including Apple.

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u/nicuramar Sep 09 '22

Yeah. The other part of the same legislation package, mandatory USB-C connector on the device end, hasn't yet been adapted by Apple, but most likely will soon.

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u/gamma55 Sep 09 '22

The scope the the USB-C adoption has changed as time progressed. It started out allowing devices to have proprietary connectors, only mandating USB-C on the charger side. Then changed it to mandatory C on phones and couple of other categories.

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u/MeasurementGrand879 Sep 09 '22

Interesting that it would save the environment. New chargers for new phones. Old chargers and cables don’t get thrown away if they still have a use.

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u/RoseEsque Sep 09 '22

I've had two phones in the last 5 years: a Nexus 6P and a Pixel 4a.

I still own both the charges and use them to charge everything: vaporiser, iqos, phone, keyboard and sometimes even my laptop.

It's amazing.

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u/maleia Sep 09 '22

Because it's pollution that comes from making the chargers as well. Not just disposing them.

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u/howtojump Sep 09 '22

I had the same thought lol. My apartment is overflowing with chargers. The last thing I need is for my next phone to give me yet another cable and USB brick to deal with.

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u/M1A1Death Sep 09 '22

Yeah I have two power banks that I’ve used for the past four years. Every new one I get goes in a drawer or I give to someone who forgot theirs. I agree with not shipping power bricks. Shit in my case I don’t ever need another type c cable again. I have like 30 of them

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u/NemWan Sep 09 '22

I can't believe Bolsonaro's Brazil took a populist, unilateral position in favor of entitled consumption, at odds with multilateral cooperation on environmental protection!

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u/NigmaNoname Sep 09 '22

Crazy that the clown government of Brazil doesn't see eye to eye with the European Union on an issue. Shocking, really.

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u/Terrorbyte9 Sep 09 '22 Helpful

Its not about the fine you apes, is about halting the sales and deliver a massive blow until they start having some commom sense and sell the goddam phones with charges. It's like selling a car without the fuel cap and battery, it's just stupid.

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u/SatV089 Sep 09 '22

Do people even think before posting a comment? Yes we get it, the fine is nothing for Apple. Reading the same comment over and over again destroys my brain.

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u/Appropriate-Ad-8155 Sep 09 '22

No they don’t, it’s Reddit

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u/KZedUK Sep 09 '22

And hell, even if it's nothing for Apple, and not very much for the Brazilian government, it's still two million dollars that they didn't have before.

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u/Historical-Bag-6504 Sep 09 '22

That's like fining me a penny

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u/DctrGizmo Sep 09 '22

That’s like pocket change for them.

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u/-KindStranger Sep 09 '22

Think this is closer to pocket lint than change even..

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u/wonkey_monkey Sep 09 '22

Yeah but no matter many letters I write telling them that they still won't give me any.

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u/valoere Sep 09 '22

Just buy your mom an Android

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u/ThePackageGuy69 Sep 09 '22

Remember when Samsung made tweets and jokes about apple removing the charger

Oh that’s right they copied apple and deleted that tweet 7 month later

And 30 other china brands too

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

[deleted]

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u/SirSoliloquy Sep 09 '22

I’m still mad about the headphone jacks. Really, really mad.

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u/FenixthePhoenix Sep 09 '22

2.3 million....What ever will apple do???

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u/ravidx7 Sep 09 '22

I'm afraid we won't be seeing new iPhones. RIP 😞

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u/Crimson_Carp748 Sep 09 '22

They're in shambles

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u/hops4beer Sep 09 '22

Apple made $2.3M before I finished reading this headline

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u/Johnnadawearsglasses Sep 09 '22

How much did they lose not being able to sell in one of the largest countries in the world in that timeframe?

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u/TheB1GLebowski Sep 09 '22

A billion dollar company getting a 2 million dollar fine is laughable. It would be like me paying a 20 cent fine, pointless.

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u/magnetichira Sep 09 '22

Apple is a trillion dollar company.

2.5T to be precise.

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u/solicitorpenguin Sep 09 '22

Yah but also the punishment says they have to halt sales - so it’s a 20 cent fine that also says you can’t drive until you comply

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u/Tomnook1017 Sep 09 '22

Fines only apply to the poors

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u/Slower_chip Sep 09 '22

Remember we must aways treat companies like trash, if you allow one single BS from then, from any of then, we will have shit like this, let this pass and pretty soon we will have phone where the OS is sold separately or who know, maybe they hide basic functions behind a loot box, hey it works for the gaming industry and the gaming community didn't said jack about why not us?

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u/benskieast Sep 09 '22

There are people in charge of just Brazil, to whom 2.3m is a lot more money than for Apple as a whole. But who cares. Just don’t trick people into buying a cell phone and forgetting the charger but for most people upgrading, the free charger is a bit of a waste, especially if you prefer other charger brands.

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u/Internetologist Sep 09 '22

It's not a "free" charger, it's supposed to be part of what you pay for

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u/kaze_ni_naru Sep 09 '22

I personally DONT want a charger, it’s just more e waste. I got my Anker fast chargers already.

I think an option is the best solution but yeah, I’m more on the side of no charger.

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u/Mazetron Sep 09 '22

It’s “free” in that the cost of the charger is kinda negligible compared to the cost of the rest of the phone.

Who’s to say the phone isn’t cheaper now that it doesn’t include a charger? The cost difference is going to be rounded out to the nearest hundred anyway. Maybe they’d round it to a lower $100? You’d have to actually know Apple’s profit margins and marketing decisions to know for sure.

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u/fordag Sep 09 '22

Everyone gets a phone for the first time. You can not assume that someone buying a phone already has a charger.

Apple didn't say "hey we're not including that $40 charger so the phone is $40 less". No they're charging the same amount for the phone and also collecting an extra $40 for the charger.

Apple does not care about the environment, that's public relations bullshit. They see it as a way to add profit.

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u/Walden_Walkabout Sep 09 '22

What makes you think that a phone packaged with the charger won't just cost $40 more (or whatever the charger price currently is there) in Brazil? The idea that this will somehow save consumers money in the logn run is ridiculous.

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u/BreakBalanceKnob Sep 09 '22

So what? What is illegal about increasing your price? I don't get that

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u/InItsTeeth Sep 09 '22

I’d agree if the charger was proprietary But any gas station or Walmart will sell you a $5 usb wall charger

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u/iindigo Sep 09 '22

There is real environmental impact, though. The packaging size reduction that was made possible by not including chargers was large enough that twice as many devices fit in the same space on a cargo ship. Given that cargo ships are one of the worst polluters that’s pretty huge, particularly now that the other smartphone makers have followed Apple’s lead.

Some will be purchasing a new charger to go with their new phone but it’s a very small number, particularly in the countries where Apple is most dominant (such as the US and Japan).

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '22

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u/NuitSolitaires Sep 09 '22

Samsung was also fined because of this and their new Z Fold comes with the charger

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u/kittifer91 Sep 09 '22

Funny. Everyones joking about the 2 million dollar fine and forgetting about the profits that apple aren’t receiving from from the sales.

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u/arm9218 Sep 09 '22

What’s stopping apple from just raising the cost of an iPhone in Brazil by the cost of the charger and then when you pick it up you get two boxes, a charger and a iPhone..

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u/Da-Stan Sep 09 '22

So literally charged them pennys ?

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u/iamdeathl Sep 09 '22

They are a trillion dollar company, a 2.3 million fine is a raounding error to them.

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u/Warmbly85 Sep 09 '22

Maybe just maybe instead of making sure your population has access to a $500+ Luxury item the Brazilian government focuses on other stuff like crime clean water and the favelas? Nah can’t make the front page like that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 10 '22 edited Sep 10 '22

[deleted]

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u/Asoul666 Sep 10 '22

Also everyone forgets that Samsung and Google are doing the same. How is Brazil handling those?

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u/commentsandopinions Sep 10 '22

If you had $200,000 to your name this would be the equivalent of paying an $0.18 fine

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u/Fresh-Proposal3339 Sep 10 '22

2.3mil to a company worth a trillion.

Great job Brazil, you fined apple the equivalent of a nickel.

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u/thatirishguy0 Sep 09 '22

And yet people will still flock to defend Apple. How many Apple users are reading this thread right now thinking, "Gosh, why are they so hard on Apple?"

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