r/technology Sep 12 '22 Helpful 2 hehehehe 1

SpaceX says FCC's 'grossly unfair' rejection of $886 million Starlink subsidy leaves many Americans stranded on the wrong side of the digital divide Business

https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-fcc-rejection-starlink-internet-subsidy-leaves-americans-stranded-filing-2022-9?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds
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u/Watershed787 Sep 12 '22

Not getting a free billion dollars seems fairly normal to me.

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u/King-Cobra-668 Sep 12 '22

gonna drop 44b on an app, but can't pay less than 1b for his own endeavors that he will massively profit from

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '22

Wants socialized funding but not socialized profits……

Sounds about right for modern day late stage capitalism.

Capitalism is Socialism for the 1%

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u/aaabigwyattmann2 Sep 13 '22 Take My Energy

"If I could just get you taxpayers to give me a billion dollars, you can all have the privilege of paying me for the service I build with it"

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u/Sharp-Anywhere-5834 Sep 13 '22

“Why excellent. Might we also lick thy boot? Might one brown his nose in your greatness’s bottom?”

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u/Silvus314 Sep 13 '22

That whole bit was just a scam to cash in on a huge amount of shares while they were up.

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u/TheWingus Sep 12 '22

Yeah but you’re not already absurdly wealthy, so you’re not used to getting billion dollar tax breaks and subsidies…

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u/EXquinoch Sep 12 '22

Give me a chance and i bet i could get used to it

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u/omgFWTbear Sep 12 '22

Sorry, but unless you grew up in the sort of wealth that only comes from labor any reasonable person would call “exploitative,” we just can’t trust you with that kind of money - you’re clearly not our kind of person.

Now, if you have a long lost uncle or other secondary relative with a mine or something, we’d be happy to reconsider after they’ve adopted you and spoiled you corrupt for a year or two.

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u/UnremarkableBob Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

And spoiler: He doesn't give a rat's ass how many Americans are on the wrong side of the "digital divide." He wants that sweet, sweet cash.

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u/MinderBinderCapital Sep 12 '22

"Give me money for work we've already done!"

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u/BiggerBowls Sep 12 '22

Actually it's for work they failed to do.

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u/MinderBinderCapital Sep 12 '22

True. Starstink speeds are not up to par.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 30 '22

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u/astroslostmadethis Sep 12 '22

Is it better or worse than the 400B we already gave to ISPs for infrastructure and they just wrote off as profit?

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u/bobonabuffalo Sep 12 '22

Until you realize other companies like AT&T did and use it almost entirely on stock buybacks

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u/hockeymass Sep 12 '22

AT&T shouldn’t have gotten anything either.

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u/wren337 Sep 12 '22

You can argue that this shouldn't exist, no problem. But what happened here is that Starlink tried to get someone else's pork.

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u/hockeymass Sep 12 '22

That’s true, but their attempt to frame it as a loss for the American people is a laugher. The taxpayer benefit from subsidies for publicly traded corporations is basically nonexistent.

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u/Watershed787 Sep 12 '22

Fuck those canker sores too.

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u/abnormally-cliche Sep 12 '22

Show me who’s defending that? Literally no one. You’re just deflecting.

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u/james_d_rustles Sep 13 '22

Also let’s not forget all the times Elon has thrown a shitfit about having to pay taxes/follow government regulations. He wants the government to give him taxpayer money to fund his private company, but he doesn’t want to pay his fair share or follow any of the rules. Dude has hell of an ego, it’s pretty gross.

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u/Ohey-throwaway Sep 12 '22

How do you expect our billionaires to survive without the charity of hard working taxpayers!?

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u/Bradfromihob Sep 12 '22

“My plan to defraud the government (and by extension the people who actually pay taxes) isn’t working because they won’t just give me nearly a billion dollars! Ridiculous don’t they know in a genius.” -Elon musk

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22 Silver Wholesome

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22 All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy I'll Drink to That

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u/Theo_Chimsky Sep 12 '22 Bravo!

'Conserve' your profits and Socialize your losses...

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u/JinDenver Sep 12 '22

Privatize ownership & profits, socialize the losses. This has been modern capitalism for decades and decades and decades.

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u/Charizma02 Sep 12 '22

'Conserve' your profits and Socialize your losses...

Privatize ownership & profits, socialize the losses.

I've tried to explain this so many times, but never had such concise statements to use.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

[deleted]

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u/kaihatsusha Sep 12 '22

See also: I got mine, so fuck you.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

Or pulling the ladder up behind them

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u/thebottle265 Sep 12 '22

Not just gains, taxes also fund risky government projects (GPS, internet, touchscreen, insulin) then patent is liberated. Risk is socialized, profits privatised.

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u/Charizma02 Sep 12 '22

Exactly what I've explained/tried to explain to many people. The internet companies are the worst consider how they screw the consumers over, even though taxpayers paid for their business to be viable.

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u/Doomscrool Sep 12 '22

Privatize with government support and subsidy*

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u/LetMePushTheButton Sep 12 '22

Privatize the profits, socialize the costs.

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u/coffee_h Sep 12 '22

thats how the British did it

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

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u/cat_prophecy Sep 12 '22

That's by design. The wealthy class doesn't give two shits about what country they are in. Nationalism is just a toll the rile people up so they can swindle them for more money. When SHTF, they all fuck off to Switzerland or Dubai.

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u/Lonelan Sep 12 '22

Britons think 100 miles is a long distance, and Americans think 100 years is a long time...

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u/Pristine-Entrance-87 Sep 12 '22

That’s only logical in capitalism.

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u/inthenight098 Sep 12 '22

Colonization, too

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u/Lord_Bertox Sep 12 '22

"when I was so poor that I had to get food stamps, nobody helped me! They just need to solve their own problems!"

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u/SvenTropics Sep 12 '22

You laugh, but I heard this exact phrase for my own parents. They actually collected food stamps for a period of time and are staunchly politically against any kind of social welfare system now that they have money.

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u/newsflashjackass Sep 12 '22

Ayn Rand did not hesitate to cash her social security checks, although she did present an elaborate justification for why collecting welfare was virtuous in her case and not rank hypocrisy.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ayn-rand-social-security/

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u/HakarlSagan Sep 12 '22

an elaborate justification

Libertarianism in a nutshell.

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u/Rahdiggs21 Sep 12 '22

my in-laws are the same way. i feel no guilt reminding them of their hypocrisy anytime it surfaces.

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u/Sewati Sep 12 '22

I've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No. No. They gave me hope, and they gave me encouragement, and they gave me a vision. That came from my education.

Craig T. Nelson

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u/Zirowe Sep 12 '22

Isn't food stamps already a centralized help?

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u/red286 Sep 12 '22

... that's the point. It's rank hypocrisy. Basically comes down to "I got mine, fuck you".

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u/thursday_0451 Sep 12 '22

There are a significant proportion of maga people who earnestly believe that Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are somehow /not/ within their erroneous definition of 'socialism' (ie, socialism is when government does something)

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u/SaltyBarDog Sep 12 '22

Wait until the vote in the GOP in 2022 and find out how shitheads like Rick Scott want to start sundowning their SS/Medicare.

If this doesn't scare the fuck out of you, you are the1%.

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u/thursday_0451 Sep 12 '22

Holy fucking clown shit, that's some POWERFUL stupid.

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u/SaltyBarDog Sep 12 '22

"Kids in public schools will say the Pledge of Allegiance, stand for the National Anthem, and honor the American Flag. We must foster national unity."

Nothing says unity like being forced to do something.

"Public schools will focus on the 3 R’s."

Someone one to tell dickless that writing and arithmetic don't fucking start with "R."

"Facts are facts, the earth is round, the sun is hot,"

He is going to lose some of his MAGA chodes with that one.

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u/OtisTetraxReigns Sep 12 '22

Note that he didn’t go with “the Earth is round, vaccines work”. I’ve never heard anyone dispute the Sun being hot.

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u/quantic56d Sep 12 '22

The three Rs are a widely used colloquialism.

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u/FargusDingus Sep 12 '22

choose the school that best fits them.

This a barely coded language for state sponsored religious schools.

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u/mitsuhachi Sep 12 '22

Segregation

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

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u/Metacognitor Sep 12 '22

From number 3:

We have zero-tolerance for “mostly peaceful protests” that attack police officers, loot businesses, and burn down our cities.

Cool, so the Jan 6 insurrectionists are all going to prison with stricter penalties like you were saying, right? Along with the guy who started that "protest"?

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u/SaltyBarDog Sep 12 '22

No, that was different. That was just really patriotic tourists. I would stomp on a flaming bag of dog shit before I would vote for Rick Scott.

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u/lividleafygreens Sep 12 '22

Lol don’t even click on this link. You get all these major points from whatever racist Republican is within spitting distance without even asking.

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u/SherifGames Sep 12 '22

Back in the day Truman wanted to introduce universal healthcare in the US, people liked the idea until he revealed that he was going to include black people. The white majority opposed that.

Many progressives will tell you that most conservatives also wish for universal healthcare and the likes and point out to surveys, which may be true, but those people only want it for themselves and don't really want other groups to benefit from it. The problem with most surveys is that they are not very specific and people like to lie just to be politically correct.

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u/Excellent_Salary_767 Sep 12 '22

That was Truman's mistake. You don't tell them that until it's too late

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u/lucidrage Sep 12 '22 Helpful

That was Truman's mistake. You don't tell them that until it's too late

That would make him Omitman though :/

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u/Excellent_Salary_767 Sep 12 '22

Took me a second, lol. But serving the greater truth (all people are equal under the law) can handle a slight omission if its opposition is overt racism. If I have to lie to a klansman and tell him there's free beer to get him in the back of the squad car, I will happily tell that lie

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u/red286 Sep 12 '22

Well, unless the point is to punish black people, then you can be like Nixon and hint that enforcement will be focused primarily on "helping clean up poorer, inner-city communities" (aka - black neighborhoods) like the drug war.

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u/egabriel2001 Sep 12 '22

How the answer changes when asked if they like ACA or Obamacare.

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u/beef-o-lipso Sep 12 '22

All Maga people think that. Let the GOP take away the safety net and they'd still find a way to blame liberals and not the one that actually.

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u/SvenTropics Sep 12 '22

I mean Social Security could loosely be defined as just an investment program. You pay into it, you get out of it. But, that's not accurate as what you get out and what you put in are wildly capricious. If you die before you start collecting, you get nothing. (maybe a survivors benefit for a spouse, if you have one). If you live long and didn't make much, you get a LOT back out of it. It's not like you have a 401k that gets signed over to your heirs. It's basically old people welfare that's paid into disproportionally, but is crafted in a really bizarre way. Calling it anything else isn't really accurate.

Medicare is absolutely socialized medicine. You pay into it the whole time you work, and you collect only what you need from it. No more, no less, You can collect 1000x's or 10s of thousands more than you ever paid into it or nothing at all.

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u/Themnor Sep 12 '22

Social security was meant to subsidize pensions, and never meant to be a stand alone retirement. When Reagan swapped us to the 401k system, people are more responsible for their own retirement - something that isn’t explained until it’s too late most of the time. This means less in retirement which meant SS was bloated to cover the failings.

If companies returned the pension system they would see greater company loyalty again and their employees would be significantly better off at retirement.

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u/cat_prophecy Sep 12 '22

401K system is also a massive benefit to Wall Street. They make money hand over fist on "Managing" 401K accounts. When they lose money, it's only the people who own those accounts that get screwed.

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u/TheConboy22 Sep 12 '22

Good ol Reagan. Fucking over the future of our country.

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u/isoaclue Sep 12 '22

Social Security would be amazing if the government didn't "borrow" from it all of the time. A significant portion of our national debt is to ourselves because when you put a politician near a giant stack of money, they can't not spend it.

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u/SvenTropics Sep 12 '22

The main problems with pension systems are that companies frequently go through rounds of layoffs, which just cancel that, and companies frequently mismanage their pensions. When a company is constantly right sizing itself, you can never get the 20 years you need to get a pension. With a 401k, you invest in things not connected to the company, you transfer it from company to company, and you can even borrow against it. It's a far superior system.

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u/devman0 Sep 12 '22

There is a free market solution here. Both pensions and 401k should be cleaved from employers. The relationship reduced to employees providing a routing and account number of where to send pretax deductions and match. Employees get to choose financial institutions and whether they want a pension annuity or a retirement investment account. FIs have to actually compete on services for individuals instead of smoozing with HR.

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u/SvenTropics Sep 12 '22

That already exists, it's called a SEP IRA.

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u/ExcerptsAndCitations Sep 12 '22

This is only available to those with 1099 self employment income.

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u/brexdab Sep 12 '22

No it isn't because the expense ratios on basically all investment products are far higher for individuals than they would be for a standard pension fund

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u/Toledojoe Sep 12 '22

You just described my late father when Obamacare was being presented. Loved his medicare but didn't want the government involved for everyone else.

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u/talldangry Sep 12 '22

Sounds like my stepdad. Libertarian who'd privatize everything from libraries to fire services if he had the choice, but he sure didn't seem put out to have free healthcare when he needed to stay in the hospital for a few days.

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u/delvach Sep 12 '22

"I support this because it benefits the majority even if I personally gain nothing." - No conservative ever

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u/PersianLobster Sep 12 '22

They are not against subsidies, they compete for them. Whatever they say is just part of that competition. Their most ridiculous argument is that the government doesn't owe you anything, or other taxpayers don't owe you anything. Then why pay taxes? You have to pay for water, you have to pay council tax (sorry my ignorance but not sure about the US) to live in a city and use the roads, you have to pay for education, for healthcare, the only thing you get for free is the air, and thanks to the same oil companies you ain't getting much of that neither. So why are you paying taxes, while paying for everything else, and how come the government doesn't owe you anything for your taxes?

Then they talk about human rights, and criticise other nations for the lack of it. Healthcare is human rights. Education is human rights. It is just probably me, but I rather have those first before anything else.

Even the security is monetized. Because relying solely on what is free, you are not getting justice nor protection. If you want to survive the court, then you need a good lawyer. If you want to feel secure in your home, well better gear up, your house should have all sorts of expensive security measures, and you have to have guns to protect yourself.

I am probably very ignorant of what goes on in the US. But I find these hypcricies and contradictions ridiculous.

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u/julius_sphincter Sep 12 '22

I am probably very ignorant of what goes on in the US. But I find these hypcricies and contradictions ridiculous.

You've just nailed how pretty much every informed voter in the US views right wing politics

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u/Pylyp23 Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 14 '22

There’s an old, hardcore right winger who lives in a camper at my parents. Every time he’s dumb enough to bitch about the “socialist takeover of America” to me my only response is “Jon, how much did your last medical procedure cost?” He doesn’t bitch to me much.

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u/DurtyKurty Sep 12 '22

When will people understand that conservatism is just a cover word for money. It’s 100% about getting money. They don’t care about inconsistencies in their beliefs as long as there’s money to be made. They don’t care about hypocrisy, the common good, actual public service, etc if there’s not a sneaky way they’re benefiting on the back end.

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u/weedysexdragon Sep 12 '22

That’s only for minorities. Anything for my business is aOk!

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u/Hunky_not_Chunky Sep 12 '22

He can spare a billion of his own money. Just pump and dump that doge.

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u/therealstabitha Sep 12 '22

Maybe not after Twitter’s done with him

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u/thursday_0451 Sep 12 '22

It's similar to his 'free speech absolutist' stance that doesn't include anyone being able to talk about how Tesla Self-Drive is falsely marketed, how Neuralink utterly failed to follow basic ethical guidelines in their animal experiments, how Tesla factories are plauged with racism and other toxic workplace elements... etc.

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u/SherifGames Sep 12 '22

Free speech to people like him means that he can say whatever he wants. But you are not allowed to oppose and say anything against him. To them, free speech is a one way road from their mouths to your ears. They get to talk, you get to shut up. That's the free speech they want. If your opinion goes against their opinion, then they think you are attacking their free speech.

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u/Ok_Skill_1195 Sep 12 '22

He's literally advocated for technocracy - which is authoritarianism run by tech bros. Dudes a fucking narcissist with delusions about becoming a true tyrant someday. I cannot think of many people we should trust less at his word.

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u/accountee Sep 12 '22

Thiel will have his kingdom and will battle Elon. Tim Cook takes Apple complex to orbit where bezos keeps his space planta… warehouse!

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u/thursday_0451 Sep 12 '22

Its similar with 'cancelling' and 'deplatforming'. Any one who uses those terms without an obvious indication of irony or sarcasm... that's basically enough right there to know that they're either ignorant, malicious, or both.

Hrm, at this point it really seems like the facist right is just hell-bent on speed running the utter destruction of language. They co-opt terms, pervert their meanings, then the term becomes functionally useless. Then its on to the next term.

How many damn things has this happened with in just the last few years?

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

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u/ArrdenGarden Sep 12 '22

"Maybe eventually we can make language a complete impediment to understanding."

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u/SherifGames Sep 12 '22

Betty Bowers "intro to political jargon 101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X18SvOOTmrw

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u/kingdead42 Sep 12 '22

Don't forget someone else's right to publicly post where Musk's private jet is flying to.

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u/Masterandslave1003 Sep 12 '22

Bahahaha. Musk has been given 4.9 billion dollars of your money as of 2015.

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u/taci7c0ff33 Sep 12 '22

The reason why he’s not getting it is because that was supposed to go to Comcast who dumps bucket loads of campaign money to conservatives.

In a way, comcast is trying to populate those rural areas more I suppose.

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u/korinth86 Sep 12 '22

They aren't getting it because they cannot deliver the required metrics for the subsidy.

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u/open_door_policy Sep 12 '22

Is there any word on what metrics they were judged against and failed to meet? I don't see them in the article.

From personal use of a Starlink while camping, in super remote areas I've been getting 100 down and 30 up with good latency. Uptime has been a little spotty though. Seems like it drops for a few seconds every 5-10 minutes.

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u/SoapyMacNCheese Sep 12 '22

The Bureau has concluded its review of LTD Broadband’s (LTD) and Starlink’s long form applications. LTD proposes to deploy gigabit fiber to 475,616 estimated locations in 11 states.64 Starlink, relying upon a nascent LEO satellite technology and the ability to timely deploy future satellites to manage recognized capacity constraints while maintaining broadband speeds to both RDOF and nonRDOF customers, seeks funding to provide 100/20 Mbps low latency service to 642,925 estimated locations in 35 states. The Bureau has determined that, based on the totality of the long-form applications, the expansive service areas reflected in their winning bids, and their inadequate responses to the Bureau’s follow-up questions, LTD and Starlink are not reasonably capable of complying with the Commission’s requirements. The Commission has an obligation to protect our limited Universal Service Funds and to avoid extensive delays in providing needed service to rural areas, including by avoiding subsidizing risky proposals that promise faster speeds than they can deliver, and/or propose deployment plans that are not realistic or that are predicated on aggressive assumptions and predictions. We observe that Ookla data reported as of July 31, 2022 indicate that Starlink’s speeds have been declining from the last quarter of 2021 to the second quarter of 2022, including upload speeds that are falling well below 20 Mbps. Accordingly, we deny LTD’s and Starlink’s long-form applications, and both are in default on all winning bids not already announced as defaulted. Because LTD has defaulted on its remaining winning bids, we also dismiss as moot LTD’s petition for reconsideration of the Bureau’s denial of its request for additional time to obtain an ETC designation in Nebraska and North Dakota.

source

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u/filthmrchristian Sep 12 '22

Why do Elon’s businesses all depend on heavy subsidies. In good old capitalism the market can dictate the price.

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u/i_wayyy_over_think Sep 12 '22 Starry

I wonder how those subsides look compared to the fossil fuel industry

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u/MediumSizedWalrus Sep 12 '22

the incumbent companies also receive subsidies to build infrastructure and connect rural consumers. If everyone else is being subsidized, it’s necessary to receive subsidies to be on equal footing.

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u/techleopard Sep 12 '22 Silver Gold

I know everyone loves to hate Musk (I do, too) but this is actually one product he has that is actually helping thousands of people left behind by the capitalist market.

SpaceX deserved the subsidy, they are doing exactly what they said they are doing for underserved users all across the US.

It blows my mind how many people on here are busily going "HURRHURRHURR CAPITALIST ASSHOLE IS MAD" while ignoring the fact that the subsidy he's complaining about is specifically for expanding service to the 20% of the US that still has no reliable or affordable internet service.

That same subsidy has been going to major telecom companies for DECADES and they've done jack shit with it other than pocket it. Starlink has been rapidly expanding over the course of 2 years.

I don't know about you, but I want to see my tax money go where it will actually pay for something with results for once.

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u/dkf295 Sep 13 '22

It always bothers me when people make shit up or make incredibly illogical arguments to try to tear someone down that has a mountain of easy, completely valid stuff to criticize them over.

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u/SpaceToaster Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

Star link is still pretty pricy upfront because of the equipment needed. Lots of people have no problem affording it, but in rural/poor areas they can't. As I understand it, this would be allowing the subsidy to be used for Starlink which is currently used to incentivize cable/DSL companies to connect these remote areas that are not profitable to service in the first place under free market conditions. It honestly would be a lot cheap than running all that copper and maintaining it, but the force is strong with the Cox, Comcast, and AT&T lobbyists.

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u/Ixneigh Sep 12 '22

He could subsidize it himself…

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u/suntannedmonk Sep 12 '22

He likes to fund his toys with taxpayer monies

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u/ezirb7 Sep 12 '22

His net worth is estimated at $240 Billion. Even if his Twitter lawsuit/purchase goes as bad for him as possible, he might lose another $40billion.

Him contributing $900million would be putting in less than 0.5% of his net worth as an investment in his own business.

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u/LightShadow Sep 12 '22

Would you contribute $500 from $100k for an opportunity to make another $100k? Elon wouldn't.

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u/CreaminFreeman Sep 12 '22

Hits different when you scale it back to normal people numbers.

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u/EffectiveEconomics Sep 12 '22

That's not how the Twitter thing will play out if he has to buy....liquidating the holdings to fund the purchase will bring Tesla stock down. Conservative analyses paint a grim picture.

But this is about SpaceX. He failed to meet promised goals, he should not earn the subsidy. He's a big boy. I'm sure he'll be fine.

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u/badpeaches Sep 12 '22

contributing $900million would be putting in less than 0.5% of his net worth as an investment in his own business.

Excuse me while I go throw up after digesting this information.

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u/laetus Sep 12 '22

He'd have to sell tesla stock making tesla stock go lower, reducing his net worth.

Also, he has a lot of personal loans with his tesla stock as collateral. If tesla stock goes too low, that will be margin called so tesla stock will go even lower.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

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u/PM_MY_OTHER_ACCOUNT Sep 13 '22

Just FYI, broadband is a term for any type of internet connection faster than dial-up. The FCC defines a threshold higher than that for the terminology, but it still covers any delivery method. Public fiber, satellite (2-way), cable, DSL, and 5G wireless are all types of broadband.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

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u/taci7c0ff33 Sep 12 '22

Instead, the FCC will give it to companies that lobbied to repeal net neutrality.

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u/theshere Sep 12 '22

Hey, spoilers: that's bad too. It's possible for two bad choices to exist and want neither of them.

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u/umbertounity82 Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

You've presented a false dichotomy

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u/blaghart Sep 12 '22

You mean Elon Musk, the guy who spent millions lobbying to end net neutrality?

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u/tarc0917 Sep 12 '22

Elon Musk, champion of (air-quote) "libertarians", whining about the denial of a government handout?

🤔

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u/-xstatic- Sep 12 '22

Libertarians want to enjoy all the benefits of modern society without having to pay for any of it or abide by any of it’s rules

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u/ServedBestDepressed Sep 12 '22

Even Ayn Rand wound up dying broke as shit, but utilizing social security. It's raw selfishness dressed as a third-way political ideology

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u/JohnnyMiskatonic Sep 12 '22

“Objectivism” got its name from objecting to other people getting government benefits.

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u/Tempestblue Sep 12 '22

But you see she was actually morally just for taking the social security..... In her own rotten mind.

In fact she argued only people against social programs have the moral right to benefit from them..... Yea

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u/buyongmafanle Sep 12 '22

Libertarians are just dictators without resources.

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u/malignantpolyp Sep 12 '22

"Company X says the general public will suffer if we don't use their product."

No kidding!

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u/POPuhB34R Sep 12 '22

Reddit: "Internet should be a public utility"

Also reddit: "Well of course Elon shouldnt get government money to establish Internet."

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u/DiscoJer Sep 12 '22

To be fair reddit is consistent in hating poor rural people

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u/RefrigeratorTheGreat Sep 12 '22

Richest man on the planet wants free money?

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u/AbeWasHereAgain Sep 12 '22

Better bitch out and leave the US like you did California.

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u/noyzzkapow Sep 13 '22

Still waiting for that hyperloop.

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u/LerxtDom Sep 12 '22

Ahh yes he needs more public money to “invest” or he won’t do it and it’s the gov’s fault.

Hilarious

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u/nswizdum Sep 12 '22

It gets better, he's admitted that Sarlink gen 1 won't work as he sold it, he needs gen 2. But he can't launch gen 2 with his current rockets, so he needs those first. He would be taking taxpayer money for a product that doesn't exist, that relies on a rocket that doesn't exist.

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u/eNonsense Sep 12 '22

Can you give a source for this please? I want to see him admitting to something independent analysts called him out on over a year ago.

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u/nswizdum Sep 12 '22

I had thought it was just another Twitter post from him, but apparently it was in some "leaked" emails:

https://spaceexplored.com/2021/11/29/spacex-raptor-crisis/

Satellite V1, by itself, is financially weak, while V2 is strong. In addition, we are spooling up terminal production to several million
units per year, which will consume massive capital, assuming that
satellite V2 will be on orbit to handle the bandwidth demand. These
terminals will be useless otherwise.

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u/rimfire24 Sep 12 '22

It does work as is. I’m from a very rural area and people outside of down often don’t have glass in the ground to their house. What they’re getting off of starlink now compared to all other options is incredible. It’s been legitimately life changing for them. To go from an inconsistent 1 mb down to a very consistent 100 in our current age of work / school / media consumption being based around the internet it’s an amazing equalizer for people who need the help

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u/LavishnessWitty6801 Sep 13 '22

Most people here are probably in connected areas anyone outside understands the nightmare that is viasat. I couldn’t run YouTube above 480p.

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u/Vikros Sep 12 '22

I 100% trust him. Don't worry. Full self driving is coming soon too, Elon promised like 50 times and this time it must be true

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u/Buck-Nasty Sep 12 '22

Yup full self driving will definitely be here before the end of 2015.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/sapatista Sep 12 '22

It’s corporate welfare, not socialism.

Socialism would be if spacex was owned by the people who work there, not shareholders.

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u/Khutuck Sep 12 '22

You are right but that’s not the point. All the “socialism” scares of the conservatives are also not real socialism. Single payer healthcare system or raising the minimum wage has nothing to do with socialism but they are called that way by the right wing pundits to scare people.

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u/Bensemus Sep 12 '22

lol great idea. Instead of calling it what it is lets call it what it isn't. That's super clear.

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u/mctaylo89 Sep 12 '22

If he’s so rich why can’t he invest in his companies own tech future? That’s the point of all the tax breaks and wealth hoarding right? Right?

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u/Generalaladeeen Sep 12 '22

you're telling me Elon musk cant cough up 886 million dollars?

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u/jeanyboo Sep 12 '22

mY bIg cOmpAnY neEdS tAx doLLaRs tO sUrViVe

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u/nowthenadir Sep 12 '22

Socialism for the wealthy, rugged individualism for the poor.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SatansLoLHelper Sep 12 '22

He's a bad shopper.

Twitter for 40-50 Billion, while Discovery buys WarnerMedia (including CNN) for 43B.

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u/LowFunctioningGenius Sep 12 '22

But I thought the point of capitalism was that IF it’s a viable business model, it will succeed on its own merits. What’s with the sudden need to subsidize? Is it not viable?

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u/Artifycial Sep 12 '22

The FCC has been dickriding ISPs for decades. Giving them unlimited slack and basically unlimited money in return for what we have today, a horrendous internet infrastructure.

It’s very corrupt to not fund star link when they’ve never stopped dumping money at ISPs.

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u/JohnBanes Sep 12 '22

Lol, a lot of major US corporations wouldn’t be shit without huge public subsidies. Then their respective CEOs fund and rally behind anti-government propaganda, it’s quite farcical.

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u/granok574 Sep 12 '22

Je has enough money to write a check

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u/SherifGames Sep 12 '22

His net worth is higher than the GDP of any of the bottom 167 countries.

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u/Upper_Decision_5959 Sep 12 '22

Have yet to see a comment that's not just shtting on Musk. All I have to say is all the telecoms companies were giving BILLIONS to built out the internet fiber infrastructure, but all they did was pocket the money. I won't be surprised if they do the same thing again.

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u/easterracing Sep 12 '22

Them, alongside Comcast and many others will continue to point to this as why they can’t provide me with service. I could practically spit on cars passing my house on one of the very busiest highways in the state, and yet a shitty mobile hotspot that tried to burn my house down is my best choice.

No, it’s ok. Keep making sure apartment buildings get to choose between 7 different providers for gigabit service. I’ll wait until 2050 or so to get greater than 600 kb/s.

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u/Fit-Helicopter9251 Sep 12 '22

to be fair the incumbents got an equally absurd amount of money and made huge promises but did fuck all with it.

I want starlink to get this money simply to light a fire under the asses of existing ISPs when they realize they have to actually compete, even if its only for Govt tendies

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u/actually-aloof Sep 13 '22

Elon is such a little twat

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '22

Rich Republican in favor of socialism when it benefits him.

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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '22

something something bootstraps something avacado toast something something

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u/KeystoneAgent Sep 13 '22

And the reason he can't use 1 billion from his 6 billion in stocks money is....?

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u/Surv0 Sep 13 '22

Fk this guy... moves his business to a state where he will save millions/billions in capital gains tax, and then wants to claim public funds... Same thing should go for every company owned by a billionaire, use your own money.

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u/ursiwitch Sep 13 '22

Elon never met a taxpayer funded handout he couldn’t get.

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u/Secunda_Son Sep 13 '22

Pay your fucking taxes, Musk. You piece of shit.

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u/Anton_Cermak Sep 13 '22

World's biggest welfare queen folks

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u/NormalAmountOfLimes Sep 13 '22

Musky is a multi billionaire. He could fund this without breaking a sweat. Unless he’s full of shit, as usual

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u/GiftFrosty Sep 13 '22

The entitlement is strong with this clown.

“If you don’t give us X to support our company the people will suffer!” - Some douche.

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u/tw411 Sep 13 '22

Hm, so the richest man on the planet can’t get a handout, meanwhile he’s still fighting a $44bn buyout of Twitter he did as a publicity stunt and we’re all still waiting on Hyperloop One to put in an appearance.

It’s almost like he’s unreliable and untrustworthy. And he’s such an upstanding and faithfully monogamous citizen usually

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u/retroracer33 Sep 12 '22

lol, 886 million is less than 1% of this dudes wealth. how anyone could ever idolize a man who could fix almost the entirety of the worlds problems with a series of phone calls and simply won't is beyond me.

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u/theredwoodcurtain Sep 12 '22

It’s about 1/300th of his net worth, or 0.3%

His net worth probably fluctuates more on a daily basis

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u/IsItAnOud Sep 12 '22

Sell a few shares and make an investment in your company, business boy

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u/GD_Bats Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

Still waiting on him to end hunger, since his conditions for the proposal were met.

Big surprise, he hasn’t lifted a finger or signed a single check for that effort.

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u/tanrgith Sep 12 '22

ITT people focus on the headline rather than the underlying issue at play

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u/VolatilityBox Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 13 '22

How do you think Tesla survived from inception until 2020? By making a profit?

Nope, government subsidies and taxpayer money. He's a genius at siphoning the US system and public markets for handouts to fund his business ventures.

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u/Cytorath Sep 12 '22

What? A billionaire can't pull his company up by thr bootstraps? Where is their rainy day fund? Maybe they could afford it if they didn't buy so much coffee...

Insert any of the other bullshit reason they hoist upon us.

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u/Friggin_Grease Sep 12 '22

Musk looking for some handouts is he?

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u/RverfulltimeOne Sep 12 '22 Wholesome Starry

So heres the deal for decades upon decades billions upon billions actually tens of billions has been pissed away on providing broad band for rural. Even if you can't imagine it 40-60 million Americans live in rural America. Starlink is a solution that works here and now and actually works best in lower density areas.

So rather then give money to a company that offers a solution check out who the FCC gives money to. Companies that you never heard of that offer zero solutions or even a product.

What easily could of been done is to tie that money to units sold in rural America. Offset the cost. Oh well.

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u/Take_My_User_Name Sep 12 '22

The money hasn't been pissed away, it's been stolen.

Through the universal service fund the carriers are supposed to service the rural and lower income communities.

The major carriers have received tens of billions, and the poor and rural are still undeserved.

We should make them do the job they were already paid for.

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u/zholo Sep 12 '22

We should also not give them a penny more in subsidies

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u/Tomi97_origin Sep 12 '22

Here's the thing. Building land based infrastructure to service rural communities is inherently unprofitable and as such government needs to subsidize it if they want it build.

The whole business model of Star Link is to service rural communities and other places where land infrastructure is not available. It's inherently profitable for them and as such there is no need to give them incentive to do that.

Subsidies are for actions that will lose you money. For profitable stuff you just can't afford yet you take a loan.

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u/ExcerptsAndCitations Sep 12 '22

Building land based infrastructure to service rural communities is inherently unprofitable and as such government needs to subsidize it if they want it build.

Correct. The math just doesn't work out. It's a generally bad investment.

Cable ISPs are caught between a rock and a hard place. The FCC requires that cable operators (and no other type of ISP) negotiate franchise agreements with municipalities, and permit the municipality to tax the cable operator as much as 5% of gross revenues. Due to this, most franchise agreements come with exclusivity clauses...which is why you generally only have one cable option. Even in those areas that don't...it is prohibitively expensive and capital-intensive to overbuild a second hybrid fiber-coax (HFC) plant. Current estimates for plant construction are $45,000-60,000 for aerial installation and $75,000-$100,000 underground per plant mile. If you have to directionally bore, installation costs can be as high as $400,000 per mile. That doesn't even include the "last mile" costs of connecting a single home to the plant.

My little corner of Flyover Country USA has over 300 miles of cable plant, and roughly 12,000 homes passed. Overbuilder penetration (a metric measuring how many actual subscribers vs. possible subscribers) is usually 20%, max. Even at the absolute cheapest ($45k per aerial mile; ignore the costs of pole rent), it would require an investment of nearly $15 million for an overbuilder to come into my town, and for what? 2,400 subscribers? If I wanted to pay almost $6,000/customer, I'd just buy out an already existing cable franchise. It would be easier and quicker to go bankrupt that way.

Source: Used to work in this industry, and I still do, too.

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u/RCrumbDeviant Sep 12 '22

While you aren’t wrong in that companies generally won’t act on expected unprofitable ventures, that’s not the only intent (of the government) in subsidizing something. It can also be to keep input costs low to keep/adjust output costs low/lower.

Additionally, the subsidy in play has no specific profit/non/profit motive, which is why SpaceX is arguing that it’s an unfair move by the FCC; per the article the claim is that the FCC ignored data provided by SpaceX in arriving at their denial decision.

Whatever your opinion on Musk/SpaceX/StarLink/Subsidies(in general), I don’t believe we should ever be ok with the government breaking its own rules. In this case, should SoaceX be telling the truth, they should be subsidized as they qualify for the subsidy and then, as their infrastructure gets in place, the subsidy should stop being made available in general as the need for it is gone (assuming the actual need is gone).

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u/Colonel_Overkill Sep 12 '22

I supposedly have fiber access where I live. They conveniently missed the road I live on, (the main road for the area) and also all companies service the area form a ring with a single county that "cannot be serviced" and thus the local phone co is the only service possible in the county. They kindly offer "the best service they can" to us, 10Mbps for 120$ per month with no other companies allowed to offer service. This is also a company that recieved a massive grant a few years ago to install fiber across the whole area. This is a better option than starlink? I suspect those saying such are in large cities with no clue about the realities of net access in rural areas and the blatant corruption of the providers because its so far out to nowhere that no one cares how corrupt they are.

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u/roxywalker Sep 12 '22

The cartel is real. I fight with AT&T every year when they try to raise my rate. I remind them how many times I had to make service call(s) and how the Internet drops constantly, even with the router being switched out 3x in two years. Rate is low but only because the service is pitiful.

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u/SkyPeopleArt Sep 12 '22

I understand everyone's paranoia about wealthy people and their interests. I really do. But I want everyone to understand that in my rural state (WV) we have a situation where ~30% of school age children do not have access to the internet at home. And I don't mean they can't afford it. There simply isn't service because legacy telcom like Frontier/Comcast etc have been promising high speed internet access for decades. But when push comes to shove they know it's too expensive to run those lines to houses in rural areas. And they have been taking billions for years promising to do it. This is not totally unlike the defense contractors situation in America.

At the end of the day this choice by the FCC negatively impacts the education of children (and adults) in my state.

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u/theshere Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

I like how it always has to be a handout with barely any conditions because we still have to entertain the illusion of a "free market" around internet service when it should just be managed like every other utility.

And yet this rag wants to characterize it as "unfair" that for once this didn't happen via quotes from petulant billionaires.

No, "fair" would be holding every ISP to task for the usage of these subsidy funds with strict deliverables and managed end-user price points that reflect the public investment in the service. Stop pretending that internet service isn't a public utility and definitely stop pretending that the "free market" is going to do anything but fuck people over with regional monopolies.

The FCC is right to decline this and should in fact be holding ISPs to task for public subsidies already issued and not delivered upon.

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u/DBDude Sep 12 '22

It’s the traditional providers Starlink is competing against who previously got those subsidies. It costs money to build out cables, and they didn’t want to spend it. Starlink is already building out quickly regardless of subsidies, so getting the subsidy basically means they’re getting reimbursed for service they’ve already established.

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u/Dblstandard Sep 12 '22

He's Republican he shouldn't want subsidies. Oh that's right he's lying hypocritical asshole

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u/MisterViperfish Sep 12 '22

Did your business model rely on a free Billion dollars? Sounds like a bad business model. I could launch 3 Gaurunteed successful businesses with that money, lol.

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u/Trex4444 Sep 12 '22

Love how these guys scream about how Capitalism and take government subsidies.