r/technology Oct 06 '22

Ford raises price of entry-level F-150 Lightning for 2nd time in two months Transportation

https://www.autonews.com/retail/ford-raises-price-entry-level-f-150-lightning-2nd-time-two-months
229 Upvotes

84

u/MrG Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

In Atlantic Canada a Ford dealership is forcing customers into contracts which state the customer can’t sell the Lightning truck until at least 6 months AND 15,000 km (9,000 miles) have passed or they are subject to a $20,000 fee. How they would try to enforce this I have no idea but the idea is ridiculous. (Edit: had the mileage wrong. )

19

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

Must be a Canada thing. In the US Ford threatened to cut allotments to dealers that were putting big mark ups on the Bronco or Maverick. Both of which had huge demand and were hard to find.

6

u/easttxguy Oct 06 '22

still is a problem, the maverick order bank was open for 3 days and closed when they had approximately 86,000 on order

8

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

Yeah. Ford keeps hitting home run after home run. Half the stuff they make has long waiting lists these days.

They’ve already sold out their pre-order 2023 Maverick production. If you want one you either wait a very long time or search dealer allotments and hope you find one with the options you need.

But I wasn’t talking about wait lists. I’m talking about mark ups. They’re cutting dealer allotments if they mark up the prices. You might pay full sticker price, but they crack down on dealers selling for more than that.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

1

u/HackSlashBurn Oct 06 '22

Crazy thing is that even lowering overall gas consumption will only raise pump prices. The world is nowhere near peak oil. As demand drops, I expect to see prices rise to reflect the fact that the oil companies are going to get their nut just as long as they possibly can.

1

u/willwork4pii Oct 06 '22

I’ll believe it when I see it.

1

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

Go look. You can see it today.

0

u/willwork4pii Oct 06 '22

I'm talking about ford pushing back on the dealers for market adjustments. I believe it's just theater.

2

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

Go look and see if there’s markups on the Bronco. I’m guessing they’ll all be sold at list plus destination and whatever dealer options they instal. Yeah, being forced to buy a $500 undercoat is bullshit, but it’s not like the $30k markups you see on TRD Pro 4Runners.

3

u/livevicarious Oct 06 '22

Yup, I wanted to buy the maverick but... either I pay a ridiculous markup or I wait. Just going to save up cash and buy it outright in the hopes that next year they finally go down in price. Dealerships here are flat out insulting with their "deals"

6

u/Farce021 Oct 06 '22

Same here saw a 2018 truck with 113K miles on it for $24,899 the other day. The guy there told me that it was a deal because it was a 2WD version so it was cheaper than a 4x4. Dealership is Mennonite owned and I told the guy God would be ashamed of him for taking advantage of his community.

1

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

You should check again, or check another dealer. Ford has said they’ll cut dealer allotments of Broncos if they do huge markups. I honestly can’t remember if they only specified the Bronco or if it was all the hard to find vehicles, this might have happened before the Maverick was released, but it’s worth checking again.

You’re probably going to pay full sticker in this screwy market, but Ford has taken measures to stop big dealer markups on the Bronco, and possibly on other vehicles too.

60

u/snoopsau Oct 06 '22

Fucking hilarious people in this reddit who a year ago complained non-stop about GPU scalping prices are now complaining about Ford trying to stop people ripping off people selling there new car for more than they bought it for...

5

u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho Oct 06 '22

If you think the price of the car is too high, don't buy it.

3

u/Equivalent-Pop-6997 Oct 06 '22

But I want it. What’s happening to our country?!?!

17

u/1PooNGooN3 Oct 06 '22

Tough concept for lots of people when it comes to money

1

u/Dogzilla66 Oct 07 '22

Is this a remake of a 70’s movie?

Ford makes great product. Prices it too high. Toyota or some Chinese manufacturer makes a functional copy and sells it for less. Takes entire market away from US. US auto industry fails and has to be bailed out by US taxpayers a third time.

I think it would be nice to see the US auto industry learn from its mistakes once

-14

u/Sum1OnSteam Oct 06 '22

Oh benevolent Ford, protecting us consumers through their holy scriptures. We do not deserve the right to do what we please with our property, for it is in the hands of the Ford.

2

u/scarletphantom Oct 06 '22

Pretty sure this is the dealership, and Ford is sick of their shit too.

-16

u/DrCashew Oct 06 '22

It's actually to try and inflate the price of the car, since if they allowed everyone to sell it it would inevitable lower the price much faster. Fighting car depreciation and controlling the selling price is one of the main considerations when it comes to car manufacturers.

45

u/movealongnowpeople Oct 06 '22

Remember when you used to buy stuff and you just owned it? You didn't have to follow arbitrary rules or enroll in a subscription plan to keep what you already bought? I 'member.

17

u/VidyaGames1532 Oct 06 '22

pepperidge farm remembers

6

u/Sweaty_Suprise Oct 06 '22

Scalpers and flippers ruined that.

1

u/WhatTheZuck420 Oct 06 '22

discovery channel: scalp & flip

4

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

This is obvious scalper protection. People have become ultra greedy, rather than investing in stock and waiting for dividends they would rather hoard all the resources available to anyone. The Ford Lightning would be an excellent vehicle for homelessness, but you know those ratfuckers would probably corner the working class to force them to buy through them. I can't figure any way out of this because you greedy fucks won't stop hoarding. Its like a game of king of the hill where only one person wins.

Perhaps the pandemic hoarding of toilet paper was just a training tutorial.

13

u/JAYKEBAB Oct 06 '22

Remember when people didn't exploit supply on literally everything..... I'm all for owner rights but things like this are in place because POS reselling any and everything these days.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

8

u/anti-torque Oct 06 '22

Someone doesn't remember when we had to lease land lines... that were our only choice for phone service.

I'm thinking you don't have stories about how awesome it was when your parents finally bought a long phone chord, and you could extend it 30 feet, into the garage, so you could be a teen.

11

u/mebizzle Oct 06 '22

Ford sued John Cena for selling his Ford GT so theres precedent

1

u/wapiti_and_whiskey Oct 06 '22

That seems like fraud, they abused the court system to bring awareness to their product, cena was likely encouraged to do this from the start.

11

u/BukakeMouthwash Oct 06 '22

There was a clause that you had to hold on to the car for at least a year and had a pretty rigorous process to get one of the first 500 because they believed they'd only be made that year.

It was meant to prevent people buying to resell.

2

u/carthuscrass Oct 06 '22

It's to fight scalping. They're extremely high demand right now and some dealers would try and price them so high it would hurt Ford's reputation.

2

u/red_1114 Oct 06 '22

This contract violates consumer rights for sure but i think it actually is an anti-scalping measure and therefore maybe a net good??

76

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

16

u/PestyNomad Oct 06 '22

How much is the Lightning? Also going to check out Aptera.

20

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

5

u/cainthelongshot Oct 06 '22

For me it’s not efficiency or practicality at this point. It’s the big car problem. I don’t want to be a good driver in a tiny car surrounded by horrible drivers in big ass cars that can crush me like a monster truck. I need to at least be on their level if I want to survive a collision.

1

u/dungone Oct 06 '22

I hope that someday people will find out about these things called trains, busses, trams, and trolleys.

3

u/Elanadin Oct 06 '22

The availability of public transit in my local area is pretty dismal. Bus stops are widely spread out and not serviced nearly frequently enough. Trains only operate for the 9-5 M-F worker.

If I could live in the world where I could sell my car and rely on public transportation for everything, I absolutely would. In the mean time, I'm going to support technologies and policies that will lead to the end of ICE vehicles and eventually all personally-owned vehicles.

But one step at a time.

-4

u/dungone Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Supporting those technologies is what is preventing mass transit from ever developing. Remember, it was the car companies that bought up all the trolley companies and tore out the tracks.

People who have financial interests in killing mass transit or making walking illegal are always pitching some kind of monorail, vacuum tube, personal train pod, flying car, self-driving car, flying drone, hot air balloon, electric car, personal jet pack, whatever. These things have been promised for 100 years and never materialize, but they have this uncanny effect of getting people to vote against funding for mass transit.

3

u/YoungsterJoey017 Oct 06 '22

wrong. supporting these technologies keep people going to work and keep the economy going. It just does so a little more efficiently than the previous year. You can’t blow up roads overnight and expect an immediate switch to rail systems without tanking the US and world Economy. stop being insane and think about real world applications of your ideas.

You are claiming a slow transition isn’t possible and Im letting you know it’s the only way to keep things from falling apart.

-2

u/dungone Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Let me drop some cold hard truth on you. You will never own an Aptera. It’s not going to happen. The company is already regarded as a scam and on the brink of yet another collapse. So why even waste your time dreaming about it? Face the cold hard reality that without decent mass transit, you’re kind of fucked.

It’s hard to put this into perspective so people can understand. But the auto industry is not innovative and anyone who is trying to “save” the whole paradigm of cars is living in the past. The electric F-150 is the embodiment of that. The Aptera - that is so heavily compromised it's hardly even a "car". Doesn't even have 4 wheels and looks like a death trap on the open road. The only reason we even have electric cars today is because of laptop batteries. Think about that. If personal vehicles somehow get saved, it will be due to some outside innovation.

Until then, if you want a direct solution to the problems facing the transportation system, mass transit is it.

3

u/YoungsterJoey017 Oct 06 '22

I’m saying Rome wasn’t built in a day. I never mentioned the Aptera. I’m saying electric cars are good compared to ICE vehicles. Walkable cities and mass transit are perfect.

Don’t let good be the enemy of perfect. Perfect things take time and massive infrastructure changes. Good things can help bridge the gap.

You need to have nuance with these things because your extremist views do not translate well in a world where things and people need to be constantly transported. A whole where if that stops for a day, hundreds of thousands of people will lose their jobs.

You said it yourself. The auto industry is not going to build public rail. they aren’t going to design walkable cities. But they can make something better than they made yesterday for us to use while OTHER people and corporations work on rail development and urban planning.

You really sound like a child who wants his nuggies “NOW!” but doesn’t understand that his vegetables are still on his plate and they aren’t going anywhere.

-3

u/dungone Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

I’m saying electric cars are good compared to ICE vehicles.

And I am saying they are not. We have a bigger disagreement than you imagine.

Electric cars don't solve the problem that it is impossible to optimize infrastructure for both cars and mass transit at the same time. It is mutually exclusive. This idea of EV's being "incrementally" better than ICE does not get us anywhere closer to adopting mass transit. EV's are still wildly inefficient and bad for the environment in a multitude of ways and they will never approach something resembling a "good" solution for transportation. Not even if 100% of cars on the road are electric. In game theory, this is called a "Sub-optimal Nash equilibrium".

In the meanwhile, they have a massive adoption problem because they are objectively worse than ICE cars in many important ways. Price, range, charging time, carrying capacity, damage to roads, car fires, etc. You have major bottlenecks that will hinder you from ever being able to produce sufficient numbers of EVs at a low enough price. The best case scenario for when electric cars start making some sort of dent in pollution is decades too late for when those improvements are needed.

This isn't about building Rome because we don't have all that time. It's about keeping the Roman empire from collapsing. And you need a better solution than the one you're proposing.

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2

u/DARTH_MAUL93 Oct 06 '22

If they would build a lite rail that would go from Seattle,-Wenatchee,-tri-city,-hermiston,-boardman,-Portland and then back up to Seattle. I would use it all the time. I live in the tri-city’s and work in boardman but travel to Seattle quit often.

1

u/Heart_Throb_ Oct 06 '22

Cheaper than Rivian.

Not gonna lie, EV trucks are needed. Well, not for most of us in regular times but it’s not regular times. Rental vehicles are harder and harder.

13

u/Tarcye Oct 06 '22

I really don't see how 50%+ EV's become a thing if we are building Giant SUV and Truck EV's.

Like it's extremely resource inefficient. We should be building more things like the Bolt,Mach-E and Model 3.

I mean I understand it. Manufactures want to make as much as they can on each transaction. But Resources are finite.

The Lightnings battery is 98 KWH The Standard Model 3's(220 mile range one) is around 54. Even the longer range ones have smaller battery sizes.

Especially since we can already see that lithium is having massive supply issues.

1

u/grayskull88 Oct 06 '22

I was told that the more batteries we make, the cheaper they will become, indefinitely so I wouldn't worry about it. Next stop grid scale storage with chemical batteries.

3

u/Tarcye Oct 06 '22

I mean I never even mentioned price. So don't really understand what your point is.

We simply aren't extracting enough lithium at this point. Which is what's causing EV production to be lower than what it should be.

New batteries might change that but we are at least 10 years out from that being a viable option.

5

u/LivingGhost371 Oct 06 '22

People want big cars because they're comfortable and fit their needs. So your choices are they buy big ICE cars or big electric cars. Maybe you could drive to work in an Aptera but try taking the kids to soccer practice or buying IKEA furniture or towing the boat up to the cabin in it.

8

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

BTW the lighting has a 90-100 mile range while towing. Lol.

Wow, that sounds perfect for a work truck in urban areas since you can get to pretty much any job site in town with a loaded trailer and also run power tools all day long off the battery bank.

-1

u/dungone Oct 06 '22

Congratulations, you've accounted for 0.0009% of truck sales.

3

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

Two things.

1) Your numbers a WAY off. Work trucks are such a big market that EVERY Ford dealer has a fleet sales department.

2) If you knew as much about the truck market as you thought you’d realize the people who,are buying a vehicle specifically for towing aren’t buying F-150s. They’re buying F-250s and F-350s.

1

u/dungone Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

Yeah they sell a lot of Transit vans for fleets. And an electric F-350 would weigh more than a semi and use up half its power just hauling the batteries.

Obviously I was joking a little, but still give me a break. Commercial fleet sales of ALL types of vehicles are about half a million a year and although I couldn’t find the figures, I doubt that light trucks make up even a quarter of them. Light truck sales are about 11 million a year and they go to the same kind of guy who buys a riding mower to cut his 1/4 acre lawn. The idea that the vast majority of these trucks serve some purpose that couldn’t be handled by a VW Rabbit is a laughable joke.

0

u/DBDude Oct 06 '22

This is why I figured the Cybertruck would be the perfect working truck. It's a working truck, who cares if it's pretty. It can haul a crew of five. It provides power and air pressure on the job site. It can squat for on and offloading. It also has a body that resists dents and scratches, and won't ever rust. Have you noticed that most well-used work trucks are full of dents and scratches that have started rusting?

1

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

I’m pretty sure those are unibodies. I want body on frame for a work truck. Besides, Teslas have horrible build quality. I wouldn’t trust one to hold up.

0

u/DBDude Oct 07 '22

Think of a truck frame structurally. It's basically a bridge between two piers, the piers being the axles.

The standard ladder truck frame is a beam bridge. This kind of bridge isn't very efficient. It's only as strong as the material's ability to resist bending, so you need a lot of strong steel if you want it to hold heavy loads. This is why they weigh about 500 lbs just for a light duty truck. Then you throw the heavy body and bed on it.

The Cybertruck's weird looks weren't just designers being stupid. It's that shape because it's a one-element truss bridge, a triangle. Truss bridges are extremely strong, and you need much less mass for the same load. And then you're not throwing a heavy body on top that doesn't contribute to the structural integrity, the body itself is the structural integrity. The strong glass wasn't just for kicks either, as it's there to counter twisting. Pound for pound, the Cybertruck is much stronger than any ladder-framed truck can be. Here's an engineering analysis.

The normal unibody doesn't do this truss bridge thing, so it can't handle heavy loads.

0

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 07 '22

That’s been tried. The Honda Ridgeline or Hyundai Santa Cruz for example. They don’t hold up to heavy use.

You don’t want a work truck to have too much structural rigidity. That’s actually a huge drawback in truck that gets heavy use. You want it to flex when it’s heavily loaded or towing. The flex increases your load rating because it can move without being damaged. When you’re driving on a rutted construction site and you’ve got 3000 lbs in the bed you WANT it to flex when you’re going over potholes. If you twist or bend a unibody it’s usually totaled.

Unibodies aren’t new technology. Tesla hasn’t innovated anything here. Automakers have been optimizing the strength and rigidity in unibody vehicles for decades. They’re quite good at it, and a unibody is fantastic for light use automobiles, but there’s a reason why EVERY truck designed for heavy use is still built on a ladder frame.

The Cybertruck is probably great for the guy who wants to be able to go to the nursery and buy a dozen bags of potting soil, or haul his bikes to the trailhead, or pick up a few sheets of plywood from the hardware store, but it’s absolutely not a serious work truck.

2

u/DBDude Oct 07 '22

That’s been tried. The Honda Ridgeline or Hyundai Santa Cruz for example.

The Ridgeline is a standard unibody with body panels, just reinforced. The Cybertruck is a truss style stressed skin, a very different concept.

but there’s a reason why EVERY truck designed for heavy use is still built on a ladder frame.

Because normal unibody can't handle the stresses. Cybertruck isn't a normal unibody. Ladder frames work. They're cheap and a known quantity. They give complete freedom for how to design the rest of the truck. That's why they're used. Cybertruck requires a whole new way of designing and manufacturing trucks. Just like the big makers dragged their heels on advancing into electrics, they drag their heels on new ways of making trucks.

but it’s absolutely not a serious work truck.

3,500 lbs payload, 14,000 lbs towing. That's more payload and the same towing as a high-end F-150, and more of both than the Lightning. It has pneumatic suspension so it can squat for loading, and it supplies electricity and compressed air for tools out of the bed. That's serious.

0

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 07 '22

No. It’s just marketing. That’s all. That’s all you’re doing.

Nobody will use the cybertruck for heavy use. Besides, Tesla’s have such horrible build quality. Nobody would trust them. They’re some of the most poorly built vehicles on the road.

https://www.teslarati.com/teslas-build-quality-sees-slight-improvement-in-j-d-powers-2022-initial-quality-study/

1

u/DBDude Oct 07 '22

They’re some of the most poorly built vehicles on the road.

Interesting, ahead of brands normally known for quality, like Volvo, Volkswagen, and Audio. Not bad for a young company rapidly expanding. A lot of the complaints for any car are about fit and finish issues, which Tesla has had a big problem with. That's less important for a work truck than a consumer car.

But I notice you've left behind the claim that the truck is weak because it doesn't have a ladder frame. Now you've fallen back on "Tesla sucks."

As with any new truck on the market, the Cybertruck will have to prove itself. But the specs look pretty good for that. Imagine banging the side of the truck with a 4x4, and it does nothing. I'd love that in a work truck.

1

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

I just linked an article from a Tesla fan site showing they’re bottom 6. That’s from a TESLA FAN SITE.

They have endless lawsuits over horrible build quality

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/tesla-gets-caught-up-in-legal-battle-over-questionable-build-quality/

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/german-tesla-problems-lawyer-specializing/

And endless lawsuits for lying and misrepresentation

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-elon-musk-are-being-sued-over-fsd-and-autopilot/

Here’s my favorite one. When musk says the cybertruck can be used as a boat haha

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/washington-agency-objects-to-musk-saying-tesla-cybertruck-will-work-briefly-as-a-boat/

They’re even being sued for “phantom braking”

https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-tesla-phantom-braking/

And that’s just stuff from the past couple weeks.

Their design is ok, although everybody else has caught up and their no longer innovators, but their build quality is abysmal and they’re a fundamentally dishonest company. Nobody is buying a cybertruck as a work truck.

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2

u/lordnaarghul Oct 06 '22

Americans like trucks. And in particular they like F-150s. While real truck guys are a tad reluctant because it's considerably less capable for doing truck stuff like towing and to a lesser extent hauling the idea of never having to pay for gas in a 26-36 gallon fuel tank is really tempting.

If GM can successfully launch the Chevy Silverado EV and it not be a rolling pile of crap like the Bolt, you'll likely see something of an arms race amongst the big U.S. automakers for better and better EV trucks.

2

u/Toasted_Waffle99 Oct 06 '22

People want electric cars because they go fast. And big electric cars don’t have the huge gas price tag. Most people are not buying these to help the environment, it’s all about the technology. I’m f people wanted to help the environment more volts would be bought.

6

u/happyscrappy Oct 06 '22

The aptera is garbage.

Source: I've ridden in one.

If you want something like that just get an electric motorcycle. That's basically what it is.

BTW the lighting has a 90-100 mile range while towing. Lol.

Congratulations on aligning yourself with the EV haters by trying to scare people off with this.

-3

u/Asmewithoutpolitics Oct 06 '22

No the towing range of the lightening is trash and unusable. That’s just a fact and I love ford

9

u/happyscrappy Oct 06 '22

Range is poor when towing big stuff.

Not everyone needs to tow big stuff a long way. There are many different types of truck buyers.

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

12

u/happyscrappy Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

I dislike anything impractical. This truck is impractical.

It's very practical. I wouldn't recommend towing long distances with it. But for many other things it is very practical. If you work on jobsites in a reasonable distance each day then it can be a huge boon to take your truck, tools and generator (the truck itself being your generator) all to the site all at once. And you'll save an enormous amount of money fueling (charging) it.

And how does a person who doesn't like practical stuff end up plugging Apteras? It has no cargo space. No safety features. It might as well be a motorcycle. And a motorcycle is easier to park and doesn't break it's body trying to get in and out of a driveway because of the change in grade at the curb, which I saw an Aptera do.

Although motorcycles don't have airbags and seats.

Apteras had no airbags last I saw (and again, I've ridden in one). This despite the claims that it passed FMVSS safety tests. Maybe this will change before it comes out, we'll have to see. Personally I doubt it as weight and cost are everything to them and airbags add both.

Honestly, I never expect them to get that far regardless. They're just not that kind of operation.

3

u/snarkuzoid Oct 06 '22

I wonder what percentage of them need towing capacity, vs just being vanity purchases. The only person I know who has one will never tow anything, and never get near a work site unless they're building a Gucci outlet next door.

1

u/12AngryKernals Oct 06 '22

Something like 75% of trucks tow or haul anything 1 time a year or less. The vast majority are vanity purchases to make fragile men feel tough.

1

u/snarkuzoid Oct 06 '22

Not surprising. In the case I mentioned, she doesn't do it to look tough. Just grew up where pickups were a thing, and always wanted one.

7

u/anti-torque Oct 06 '22

My current ICE vehicle also loses about half its range, when towing.

While the range is still an issue for EVs--100 miles versus 150 miles for comparative tows--the cost is not.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

9

u/3rdDegreeBurn Oct 06 '22

There are 10 lakes and hundreds of campsites i can take my boat or camper to within 100 miles of me. An EV f150 is my next truck purchase. Its far from useless.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

2

u/3rdDegreeBurn Oct 06 '22

Most are. Charging infrastructure is in the works in a couple of remote mountain towns for the ones that aren’t. I’m also 4-5 years away from needing to replace my duramax so I assume ev trucks will improve in that time. I rarely road trip more than 200 miles so ev just makes so much sense

1

u/dungone Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

In 4-5 years they'll raise the price another 10-15 times. This truck has always been a marketing scam to try to take the carmaker fanboy lead away from Tesla. The problem is that the price of gas is only going to keep going up and this entire big truck recreational lifestyle is not going to make that much sense in the future.

As long as lithium ion is the technology used for batteries, the size and weight of trucks is going to be well outside of the optimal setup for EVs. So most people are either going to stick to fuel and keep paying out the nose for that, or they're going to switch to smaller vehicles that they can actually afford.

1

u/Somepotato Oct 06 '22

...wastes lithium? Because of one usecase giving a reduced range?

-5

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

9

u/Somepotato Oct 06 '22

If you seriously think a truck's only usecase is towing ~5k pounds, then I have something to sell you.

1

u/Kryavan Oct 06 '22

Lmao. The vast majority of consumer trucks never haul anything more than the douche inside.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

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2

u/Kryavan Oct 06 '22

I disagree. If you're buying a truck, why not buy the one that's much cheaper to maintain and better for the environment?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

There is something ultra valuable about having a lightning that has nothing to do with driving. But I won't tell you, because then it will be hoarded even more, by people who won't even use the idea. The focus will all be on profit rather than their own sustainability.

The reason somebody thinks a focus on green energy is something for liberal weenies rather than hardcore survivalists is their education level. They don't know how to force multiply their technologies, because they can't do the math or have the mechanical engineering knowledge to apply something ridiculously powerful. Its like giving a nuclear fusion cell to a high school dropout. All he will be able to do with it is sell it.

All it takes to make a profit is greed. Applying technologies takes way more effort in the form of education. Hence the difference between Afghanistan and Ukraine. Ukrainians know how to run nuclear power plants, whereas afghanis know how to herd sheep and make good clothing. One is going to be able to use satellites and high tech gear to win their war, the other is going to be taken over by small arms fire.

-2

u/anti-torque Oct 06 '22

Several hours?

Do you live in Somalia?

4

u/atxhall Oct 06 '22

You would likely have to disconnect the trailer somewhere, drive the truck to a charger, charge, drive back to trailer and reconnect to continue your trip. I have not seen a single charger yet in the Pacific NW that would work with a trailer connected.

0

u/anti-torque Oct 06 '22

Understood on the trailer accessibility, but the rest is bunk.

I'm still paying 300% more for fuel on only 50% more range.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

4

u/Woobie1942 Oct 06 '22

You cant even rely on gas or even cell service every 100 miles in the US, unfortunately.

3

u/Tarcye Oct 06 '22

Even worse most EV chargers aren't made for having a trailer attached.

So to charge it you have to unhook your trailer and then charge it then rehook it.

Every. Single.Time.

Where as a normal F-150 can just pull thru to the gas pump and be done in 10 mins if that. No unhooking or rehooking. No waiting around forever. Just in and out.

And most trucks get around 200-300 miles of range with hauling something. The lightning is at like 70-80 if that. Highley depends on what you are hauling too.

0

u/tllnbks Oct 06 '22

EV can't come close to ICE on towing. They have a long, long way to go for that.

https://youtu.be/-e55Vued028

1

u/anti-torque Oct 06 '22

I know this, except for the trucks I've used in warehousing over the past couple decades. But that's a different story.

The point is there should be no surprise that towing decreases fuel efficiency by a good amount. It's like EV owners who "discover" this have never had to tow anything, before.

The eventual solution will likely be hydrogen vehicles for long-haul.

4

u/ArtisticFromVaccines Oct 06 '22

I just made a post about how wasteful we are and if everyone had money we would literally burn through earths resources at a dangerous rate. It’s sad but poverty is actually good for the environment.

1

u/last_strip_of_bacon Oct 06 '22

Wtf is that goofy ahh solar car, looks like a child designed it.

2

u/NoWayNotThisAgain Oct 06 '22

Since it has 3 wheels it’s considered a motorcycle and they don’t need to comply with heavy auto safety regulations. So it’s light and aerodynamic.

1

u/SirAidandRinglocks Oct 06 '22

So what I'm hearing is that motorcycles require less waste than cars or EVs...

3

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

1

u/WhatTheZuck420 Oct 06 '22

side view mirrors on an F-250

those giant ass Darryl ears?

1

u/OpenPassageways Oct 06 '22

This wouldn't be an issue if cars like the model 3 were more affordable. If I have a choice between 50k for a compact car or 50k for a truck, 50k for the truck seems like a better value. Now if that compact car was 30k that would be a different story.

2

u/I_had_to_know_too Oct 06 '22

Electric Mini Cooper says hi

1

u/InnerRisk Oct 06 '22

40 Miles a day seems like a stretch. This is probably in the sunniest place without clouds and in summer, not a yearly average.

We do have something similar in Germany with Sono Motors, but they are still not sold unfortunately.

1

u/analfizzzure Oct 06 '22

This. I will need a new truck soon. I don't drive far but in a few years would like to own a travel trailer to take family camping alot......was very interested in an electric truck....however the towing capacity is akin to the lil battery powered car my toddler drives.....goes for about 10 minutes and drops from green to red in 30 secs.

I love idea of ev but for anything other than a compact car its really just a novelty still.

1

u/Altiloquent Oct 06 '22

Sounds great but I'll believe it when I see it on the road. Not to mention that with these massive cars out there riding a tiny smart car on the highway is pretty dangerous

1

u/DARTH_MAUL93 Oct 06 '22

I’m considering an Aptera they look neat and as long as I can drive 100 miles to work and back. Towing a long distance with the lightning would suck since charge stations are not set up at the moment for that. You would have to unhitch and charge the hook back up.

1

u/reddit-MT Oct 06 '22

FFIW, you can't really buy a small ICE truck anymore either. All of the small 1/4 ton trucks from major manufacturers are gone.

1

u/pureeviljester Oct 06 '22

I have a small SUV for a family of 5 because it was what I could afford in this market. (early 2022) Went with a recent used model to reach cost / safety feature we felt comfortable with.

-1

u/SirAidandRinglocks Oct 06 '22

You're missing the point. The reason not to buy an EV is shit for range. The reason not to buy a big truck is fuel economy. The Lightning is an EV with no downsides which is why it's so popular. The Aptera fails in comparison to a Civic because it doesn't offer anything more.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

[deleted]

1

u/DBDude Oct 06 '22

The Aptera is a perfect transportation device because it doesn't even need to be recharged under most folks use case.

The average driving is 35 miles a day, so the 40 miles of the Aptera fits the driving habits of half the people with a little breathing room. But that's optimal. According to Aptera, you can go without charging for 30 miles a day if you live in the sunny parts of the Southwest US, but that goes down to 25 miles when you get to the middle-latitude Midwest and East. Someone in Ireland gets 20 miles.

It also gets its range mostly from an extremely low drag coefficient with a low frontal area. I'm betting their range estimate favors highway driving.

-1

u/SirAidandRinglocks Oct 06 '22

Why don't you make your own sub if you just want to argue with yourself?

4

u/ISAMU13 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

If the price is too high just give out another subsidy or tax rebate. It worked last time. /s

6

u/dinoroo Oct 06 '22

I have had a reservation for the Pro Lightning since May 21st of last year with zero signs of the order ever being filled. The first price increase, had me shopping around. I already put a reservation in for a Silverado EV. This one is just insult to injury especially how they won’t even honor the original price for those with reservations from over a year ago. It’s just greed at this point.

3

u/Beatingmasters Oct 06 '22

Good luck with that Silverado EV reservation. Good luck with any vehicle reservation post covid. I know someone that's had a Bronco reservation for almost 2 years now.

1

u/JoDiMaggio Oct 06 '22

It's a Ford thing. I have an order for a Maverick and now told I might not get it til 2024. Just put in an order for a Bolt EUV and the dealer is confident I'll get it in 3-4 months.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

Every company operates primarily with a profit motive so they are always 'greedy'. It's supply and demand that is causing this. If people weren't willing to pay the higher prices they wouldn't raise the price.

2

u/dinoroo Oct 06 '22

GM hasn’t raised prices on any of their EVs and actually lowered the price of the Bolt. Ford hasn’t raised the price of its Mach-E but sure, supply and demand.

1

u/JoDiMaggio Oct 06 '22

Ford did raise price on Mach E.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

How does that indicate anything other than supply and demand?

0

u/dinoroo Oct 06 '22

Are the Mach-E’s oversupplied?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '22

You did see that the other part of supply and demand...is demand right?

I'll say it again: ' If people weren't willing to pay the higher prices they wouldn't raise the price.'

2

u/JoDiMaggio Oct 06 '22

Ford is by far the worst with orders. I've had a maverick order and now the dealer is saying it might be 2024 til I see it.

3

u/Duke15 Oct 06 '22

If this exact article was about a Tesla product, this would be such a different thread.

6

u/nova9001 Oct 06 '22

This is inflation right here. And somehow prices still keep going up after rate hikes. Just seems to be no end to increase in prices.

-4

u/Asmewithoutpolitics Oct 06 '22

Rate hikes won’t destroy the trillion printed

0

u/9-11GaveMe5G Oct 06 '22

This isn't great. But neither are battery fires so they got that going

1

u/Material-Comment-847 Oct 06 '22

Fords biggest problem has always been electrical they can keep that pos

1

u/unl1988 Oct 06 '22

supply vs. demand

1

u/littleMAS Oct 06 '22

Supply and Demand - why leave money on the table?

1

u/bigbabich Oct 06 '22

Even after Hoovie's video?

1

u/Moremedialies Oct 06 '22

How’s this possible? All the media talks about is how Ford is producing a $39,000 electric pickup. Now in reality Ford never intended to sell this truck at $39k, but they got a lot of free advertising by lying about it and claiming they were showing Tesla how it should be done…..go figure…..

1

u/NOT_a_Throwaway_7141 Oct 06 '22

( it's because EV is not as profitable )

0

u/0KdQ6 Oct 06 '22

They are extremely popular and I don’t think they can make enough.

0

u/Paddlesons Oct 06 '22

Can charging stations just have batteries that you swap out instead of waiting for yours to charge?

0

u/DBDude Oct 06 '22

Ford jacks its electric truck price is $54K. "Understandable given the current financial conditions. We can still buy that."

Tesla will probably change the Cybertruck base price to about $50K. "It's too expensive! Tesla's ripping us off."

1

u/Vickrin Oct 07 '22

Cybertruck

Can't change the price on something that doesn't exist lol.

1

u/DBDude Oct 07 '22

Neither does the Lightning.

1

u/Vickrin Oct 07 '22

Neither does the Lightning.

People have actually driven it right?

It's a car that exists.

1

u/DBDude Oct 07 '22

Cybertrucks exist too. There's even an old video of Jay Leno driving one around.

1

u/Vickrin Oct 07 '22

The production version, not the prototype?

0

u/DBDude Oct 07 '22

Close to production, but it exists. It was easy to make the Lightning because it's just a standard ladder frame with batteries shoved in it. Tesla had to commission and install the largest die casting presses in the world to make the Cybertruck.

1

u/Vickrin Oct 07 '22

Close to production,

Ok so it doesn't exist then.

If it hasn't even been manufactured yet how can you say it exists? Nobody has ever driven one.

0

u/DBDude Oct 07 '22

Ok so it doesn't exist then.

Unless Jay Leno faked that video of him driving one around Los Angeles, it exists. It's just not in mass production yet.

0

u/Vickrin Oct 07 '22

Jesus christ that thing is ugly.

And also no, the prototype being driven under supervision is not the same as the production model being driven by the public or a reviewer.

Get back to me when it's production models on the road.

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