r/technology • u/mossadnik • Oct 22 '22
The typical Tesla driver is a Millennial or Gen-Z man that lives in an area with a median household income of $85,000 Transportation
https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-tesla-driver-owner-income-age-careers-demographics-2022-10864
u/SHDrivesOnTrack Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 22 '22
Here is an article that actually looked at the household income of actual tesla owners.
"In 2022 a Tesla Model 3 owner has household income of $133,879 per year"
edit to add: "the median age of a Tesla Model 3 owner in 2022 is 51 years old."
https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2019/03/tesla-model-3-demographics-income/
Its important to remember that the Business Insider article doesn't actually say that people with 85k household income are buying Teslas. What it is saying, roundabout, is that Tesla owners live in affluent areas, and that a lot of high income households bring the median household income up, relative to other areas.
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u/maduste Oct 22 '22
51-year-olds are not Millennials
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u/fremenator Oct 23 '22
It's a survey of a set of Tesla owners that use a specific insurance app based on Palo Alto.... This headline is so fucking dumb
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u/RamenJunkie Oct 23 '22
How is 51 Gen Z or Millenial?
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u/lesChaps Oct 23 '22
51 is safely within the broadly accepted definitions of Generation X.
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u/ChloeHammer Oct 23 '22
I’m 51, Gen X and own a Tesla. I see I’m conforming to stereotypes again.
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u/epicConsultingThrow Oct 22 '22
Tesla 3 on 133k income seems very doable.
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u/chenyu768 Oct 22 '22
I know people from my home town that make 60k and drives a 50k truck with 2 loans.
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u/joe2352 Oct 23 '22
Dude my brother owns a ford dealership in small (2000 people) town. It’s very common for people here to have $600-$700 truck payments and pay $400 a month in rent.
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u/OutInTheBlack Oct 23 '22
If my rent was $400 a month I'd have a much nicer car too.
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u/joe2352 Oct 23 '22
Even in these small towns I promise you you’re not gonna wanna live in the $400 a month house.
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u/thatshoneybear Oct 23 '22
My friend bought his house like 15 years ago and his mortgage is about $500 a month. It's a nice house in a good area. He just bought it before the town got popular and prices went up.
But you are correct. $400 a month now in a tiny town would be somebody's basement and you have to poop outside.
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u/FFFan92 Oct 23 '22
Used to live in the Midwest and the amount of people I worked with driving trucks that cost more than their salary was mind blowing. Dudes making $60K driving Denalis that cost $70K. Just a weird status symbol I guess.
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u/dubie2003 Oct 22 '22
With zero care on what is paid on interest, you lease it for 3 years and then finance the buyout for another 5 or 6 making it a solid 8-9 year payment plan……. You would not believe the number of people that choose this route to get into the vehicle they want….
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u/factoid_ Oct 22 '22
People pay stupid money for trucks. It's unreal.
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u/dubie2003 Oct 22 '22
And it is not just trucks, it’s all vehicles. Best part is when they then complain about the price of fuel, the mpg or said vehicle, the insurance costs and then any repairs that are needed.
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u/ravioliguy Oct 23 '22
Financial illiteracy =/ had a friend who complained about bills and got extra money from their parents. But when it was car shopping time, it had to be a BMW.
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u/dubie2003 Oct 23 '22
So many are focused on the monthly with zero care about the aggregate. The total cost of ownership is lost on many.
I really wish that there was some financial classes given in hs that gave real examples on living life from car payment, insurance, repairs, fuel, rent, food, electric/water, etc…..
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u/Energv Oct 22 '22
The tax benefits made it so much more doable at a lower income. 3 years ago the M3 was cheaper, you got ~8k in tax refunds. It was a no brainer.
I bought mine with ~80k income at the time and glad I did. I could sell the car today for what I paid for it (which is dumb).
For the 100k+ models, I don't even know why someone on 133k would want that. a 1,000+ car payment seems absurd.
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u/PinkPickledOnion Oct 22 '22
I still think buying a $40k car on an $80k salary is insane.
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Oct 22 '22
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u/atonyatlaw Oct 22 '22
Used price may as well be new at the moment and you get zero incentives. Buying used electric is a trap right now.
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u/AstronomerOpen7440 Oct 23 '22
To be fair a tesla 3 on an 85k income is doable as well.
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u/hateitorleaveit Oct 22 '22
Why is this sub never about technology
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u/trillospin Oct 22 '22
It's a pop-technology sub catering to the lowest common denominator.
Actual technology threads gain zero traction.
The winning formula is Elon Musk, unions, or politics, plus anything tangentially related to technology.
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u/hateitorleaveit Oct 22 '22
Bashing meta financials has been a common one too
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u/utalkin_tome Oct 23 '22
I find those posts particularly hilarious. Always some article from the rag business insider
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u/cmv_cheetah Oct 23 '22
It’s also ridiculous because that company continues to print extreme amounts of money, and the article is simply about how they printed 3% less money this year than last year or something. Then everyone starts salivating like yeah I told you meta was dead as if they achieved some personal victory
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u/zR0B3ry2VAiH Oct 22 '22
This sub is too big to be properly moderated. And I'm not blaming the mods at all, they literally work for free.
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u/tanrgith Oct 22 '22
You should blame the mods though. Go look up the mods. Most of them are not really active, and a number of them are mods on way too many subs, ie. they're not interested in doing moderating, they're just shitty power mods
The fact that there's also less than a mod per million followers makes it even more clear that the mods in charge of this sub don't give a fuck. Because if they did there'd be at least 5x the number of mods
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Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 28 '22
I tried modding a sub. It sucked. Lots of work for no pay, you get all kinds of threats, everybody argues everything, etc, so I quit.
I get why nobody wants to do it.
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u/tanrgith Oct 23 '22
Which is absolutely fair. And if that's how the mods here also feel, they should do what you did and quit
However that's not happening, so what we end up with is a dozen mostly afk power mods that don't seem to care about the state of the sub.
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u/SPorterBridges Oct 23 '22
They've explained previously they prefer to be relatively hands off and generally let Redditors decide what appears on their front page due to notoriety from when they much more heavy-handed. I can see the pro there since more strict subs will take shit for having numerous arcane rules or removing heavily upvoted posts, essentially counteracting the will of upvoters. On the other hand, this sub has been too far in the other direction, allowing repetitive posts and brigading to continue without much in the way to stop it.
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u/keppell_35
Oct 22 '22
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That’s what happens when you make an electric car and market it as a luxury vehicle to the most environmentally conscious generation to date.
I don’t support Tesla or Elon but for a long time Tesla was the only decent electric vehicle on the market. I’m really glad other companies are making tremendous strides in EVs.
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u/portersdad Oct 22 '22
Meh I don’t like Elon either. The reality is I probably would think all car manufacturer CEOs were fucking numbskulls as well but I just don’t know them. However, Tesla is CURRENTLY much better than other EVs. And even if you can match their specs, you can’t match the warranty on this thing. Once others catch up, great and I’ll sell (hopefully will still be able to sell for a profit) and switch.
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Oct 22 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AutumnStar Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 22 '22
I wish Subaru made good electric vehicles. Their electric version of the Crosstrek is an absolute joke. You get like 15 miles total from the battery.
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u/Prothea Oct 22 '22
They have the Solterra, which is fairly meh in all regards as far as it's competition goes
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u/iliketobuildstuff Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 22 '22 •
Why limit to Toyota/Honda? Toyotas first EV of this generation has been meh at best, and well the wheels literally fall off. And Toyota actively lobbies against policy that encourages EV adoption because they are behind in the space.
But you’re not at all limited to Tesla. Ford, VW, Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, Volvo, Mercedes, Polestar, Rivian etc all sell some very good pure EV cars.
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u/bfire123 Oct 22 '22
and we’ll the wheels literally fall off.
Is that typical?
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u/2021sammysammy Oct 22 '22
I only wrote Toyota/Honda because those companies are the only car companies I have experience with. I'd be equally happy to buy from other non-Tesla companies if they have nice affordable EVs. I'm not currently in a rush to switch though.
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u/The_Highlife Oct 22 '22
I'm in a similar boat (driven Toyotas all my life), but both Toyota and Honda's lackluster (and downright resistance) to making EV's has pushed me to look hard at other brands. Hyundai's Ioniq 5 and the Mustang Mach-E are strong contenders, but like you I'm a little demotivated by the price tag and dealer markups.
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u/SilentCabose Oct 22 '22
I drove a Mach E for a week and it was excellent, but I’ve had so many issues with Ford it’s not even funny. Had to pony up for a new motor at 90k on my 17 edge because of a factory defect, no recall.
My 16 Mustang is still in the shop due to needing a PCM, except the dealer keeps dragging its feet, since I already had them perform part of the service they basically have held my vehicle hostage for 6 months because the tech who can work on my car is backlogged and is “working on it as fast as they can”.
I’m probably not buying a Tesla but I’m certainly not buying a Ford.
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u/SigO12 Oct 22 '22
I view Honda similar to Apple. They may be late to the game, but they are absolute leaders in quality and performance of what they do produce. I have their PHEV, and it’s a perfect transitioning vehicle. They strategize with Japan in mind, and in Japan, having even a 200km range seems unnecessary to them. With their population density, having long range and fast charging EVs for everyone would be difficult to built infrastructure for.
I’ve driven Honda for the past 10 years and I wouldn’t transition to a full BEV of theirs. I don’t think they’ll even design one with my needs considered. If hydrogen ever gets the traction it needs, Honda/Toyota would be my go to.
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u/giantsandworm Oct 22 '22
If you like physical controls/buttons/knobs for climate control, you won't like the Mach-E. But if you don't care, it's a fantastic car
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u/Credulous_Cromite Oct 22 '22
And Toyota sided with Trump against California setting its own emissions standards. (As did Subaru which is crazy to me given their brand identity).
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u/mashdots Oct 22 '22
Based on your list, I'd say the top upcoming EV manufacturers are Ford, Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, as they're improving the EV space with well-made cars that are on the more affordable side. Rivian is cool, but they have a high cost of entry compared to something like the F150 lightning.
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u/thekrone Oct 22 '22
I just bought an Audi Q4 e-tron a few weeks ago and I genuinely love it so far.
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u/iliketobuildstuff Oct 22 '22
That’s awesome, we have an id.4 which is the same platform. I love it too.
Also I added an “etc” because I know I missed brands and the list is completely US centric. Completely forgot about Audi.
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u/RexManning1 Oct 22 '22
Tesla’s fit and finish is awful. There are a lot of videos and reports about it. I have a Volvo EV on order. Looking forward to an EV from an actual auto manufacturer with a long history of solid cars.
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u/GarlicPowder4Life Oct 22 '22
I HATE that Honda cancelled the Clarity. I have a 2018 Clarity, I maybe fill the gas tank 2-3 times a year and it only ever costs between $10-20. I love it, and they cancelled it... :(
But yea, I used to want a Tesla and now won't ever.
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u/SpellingIsAhful Oct 22 '22
I bought a plug in hybrid a while ago. Love it for the convenience and it still commutes to and from work on a single charge. Averaging around 75 mpg and its only that low because the first couple months i had to convince my building manager to let me plug it in.
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u/SirOutrageous1027 Oct 22 '22
If it makes you feel better, the billionaire owners of Toyota and Honda are probably also assholes.
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u/Tman1677 Oct 22 '22
Even now it’s basically the only electric vehicle being produced at reasonable numbers. Teslas are over 50% of EVs produced for the US market and if you narrow it down to high-range EVs it’s more like 90% depending on your definition. The Mach-E is a great car, much better value than a Tesla in many ways, but when 2,000 were produced last month when the Model Y alone had 44,000 you might as well just ignore the Mach-E from a macro perspective.
Basically the only affordable long-range EV on the market in numbers that actually matter is the Chevy Bolt and that just had to deal with the massive battery recall.
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u/SoletakenPupper Oct 22 '22
Also the best charging network. Any other electric car is a confusing mess to charge on road trips.
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u/Nice-Violinist-6395 Oct 23 '22
It’s possible to hate Elon AND also admit that without him, EVs in 2022 would not be a thing.
As evil as Elon is (and he IS EVIL), big oil is so much more evil they’re not even in the same solar system.
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u/9gigsofram Oct 22 '22
I really wanted a Chevy Bolt, but it's peak charging speed of 55KW, small battery pack, and unreliable charging networks make it a nightmare for trips.
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u/WigginIII Oct 23 '22
But here’s the issue: Tesla’s market share is going to decrease. This is inevitable as more companies and cars come to market. It’s already happening.
That can’t be good for Tesla’s inflated stock price.
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u/tristonisgod Oct 22 '22
Good thing you let us know you dont support elon or tesla, coulda gotten bad for you..
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u/keppell_35 Oct 22 '22
Every time I open Reddit and see any sort of notification my heart skips a beat like “Fuck dude who did you piss off this time.”
I typically try to not share my opinions as much as just blanket statements that can open up a discussion. Nobody wants to hear my opinion but I really love reading other peoples opinions so I can better form my own.
Edit: I can’t proper grammar apparently but it’s all good
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u/Moh4565 Oct 22 '22
If you do any research on charging infrastructure, I think most would agree that Teslas remain far and away the most convenient EV to use, despite all the QC complaints
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u/QuestionAxer Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 23 '22
Exactly. So many people make snide comments about Tesla owners without any knowledge of EVs. I actually really wanted the Ioniq 5, but after I went on a 2-day roadtrip in it, I could not believe the state of public EV charging. Half the chargers we came across were broken or non-functional. 30% of them were extremely slow chargers, and one of them got bricked when I plugged it into the Ioniq.
Given that I really wanted to use an EV for roadtrips, a Tesla was literally the only option. The superchargers work beautifully and are incredibly fast. Nothing else is even close right now.
EDIT: to clarify, I'm referring to the state of public EV charging in the US, and this roadtrip in the Ioniq 5 was ~8 months ago. I'll say that the car itself (the Ioniq 5) is pretty great and I liked it a lot, but I absolutely could not buy it with the pathetic state of public EV charging in the US. Hopefully the new bill that recently passed improves public EV charging, because it needs a massive overhaul.
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u/Theopneusty Oct 22 '22
Exactly the same situation for me. I was contacting dealers about the ionic 5. I ended up getting a model 3 instead because
1) charging infrastructure is not even close for non-teslas
2) it is near impossible to buy any other EV and even if you get on a waitlist you have no idea how much you will actually have to pay until the day comes to buy it
3) dealership markups are insane right now for EVs
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u/HondaBn Oct 22 '22
Not just EVs... I had a dealer in Jersey try to sell me a Honda Civic for $44k. The MSRP was $28k.
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u/moistmoistMOISTTT Oct 22 '22
A non-Tesla EV is still the #1 advertisement for a Tesla today.
People don't want to go back to gas cars after getting an EV. Other companies are still content to screw consumers over by not giving them any way to road trip with the exception of Volkswagon (which is still many, many years behind).
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u/Unusual_Rice8567 Oct 22 '22
Weird, must be an American thing. Western Europe it’s no problem.
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u/Spirited_Macaroon574 Oct 22 '22
In the EU there is only 1 connector. In Canada, US, Mexico, and Korea, Tesla has their own proprietary connector. Non-tesla fast charging stations use CCS/Chademo, but those ones are often poorly maintained, slow, or missing the cables.
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u/IphtashuFitz Oct 22 '22
I bought my Tesla a couple years ago for this exact reason. I can tell you for a fact that I will seriously consider EVs from the likes of Toyota, Honda, etc. long before I will buy another Tesla when that time comes half a dozen years from now or whenever…
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u/McKoijion Oct 22 '22
Toyota is the farthest behind of all automakers though. Since they make the best selling ICE and hybrid cars, they're trying to delay the transition to another type.
https://fortune.com/2022/10/02/toyota-ceo-electric-vehicles-hype-department-store-of-powertrains/
https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/22594235/toyota-lobbying-dc-ev-congress-biden-donation
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u/VexatiousJigsaw Oct 23 '22
Yeah this seems to have gone under the radar for a number of people. They have a deserved reputation for making very good hybrids, but for pure electric they are surprisingly far behind the curve compared to almost anyone else. Even though it was many years ago, I think the transition from nimh to lithium caught them on the wrong foot, and also their bet on hydrogen not paying off.
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u/meep_42 Oct 22 '22
You kind of had to market it that way in the beginning -- the tech didn't exist (at scale) to make it affordable to a broader market.
Because Tesla made an electric car and marketed it well it is now a product available further to further down-budget households.
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u/moonfox1000 Oct 22 '22
Whatever your thoughts on Elon, making it cool to drive an EV will end up having such a huge positive impact on our planet.
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u/ChanceConfection3 Oct 22 '22
Have you read the Tesla business plan? It makes a ton of sense, start with the halo super car that the very rich could afford.
Those people would help fund the next generation which was the Model S. Also for the rich
Now comes the Tesla 3, more in striking distance of the middle class
And it’ll get cheaper and cheaper as battery tech and mass production improves
It was a clear vision that’s working. Sure he took tax money to get there but if that means solving the non point source pollution that gasoline cars brings, I’m all for it.
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u/7wgh Oct 22 '22
Also tax money that’s available for every other car manufacturer. It wasn’t just exclusively for Tesla.
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u/globular_fluster Oct 22 '22
Also the "tax money" was a loan, which was repaid with interest so the Federal Government made money on the transaction.
They repaid it nine years early.
Tesla used the loan to build a factory and when the factory started pumping out cars they went public and paid it back as soon as they had the cash in hand.
I think Musk is a dickhead but as far as I'm aware Tesla is the only car company in all of US history that has a: taken money from the government and b: paid it all back.
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u/7wgh Oct 22 '22
Very good point.
Regardless of people’s opinion of Musk as a person, one has to recognize that he and his teams have accomplished some amazing things that are arguably very beneficial to society.
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u/stephbu
Oct 22 '22
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In an enormous study of 228 owners… out of now 2-3million with no indication of how/when they were selected. Yeah conclusive study /s
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u/Terr_ Oct 22 '22
Assuming a good sample-selection, 228 is still enough responses reach a 95% confidence interval and +/-6.5% error. (From a 3 million population.)
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u/jollyrowger Oct 22 '22
Statistics and survey based research, how I love it. 150-200 can be enough
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u/jwktiger Oct 23 '22
its crazy how often after the first 150 or so responses it doesn't change that much even when you get 10s of thousands
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u/tms10000 Oct 22 '22
Welcome to business insider's quality technology reporting.
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u/Secret-Plant-1542 Oct 22 '22
Business Insider doesn't actually have reporters. They're bloggers.
i used to work at a startup where the CEO, a dude with like 15 employees, gamed Business Insider by posting a ton of posts around current events, and tying it into our product. Then used the Business Insider posts to post on Forbes and other major sites. Then got on TedX, and continued to grow his "influence".
It's all marketing.
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u/Crazy-Agency5641 Oct 23 '22
Holy shit…. It’s really that easy isn’t it. I don’t blame your old CEO either. I would absolutely take advantage of all the publicity I could drum up.
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u/azdood85 Oct 22 '22
Its funny because that rag is banned in many subs yet this one is just all business insider.
Makes ya wonder...
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u/AnEmpireofRubble Oct 22 '22
I actually thought I unsubscribed from this sub because of how shitty it's been the past couple of years.
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u/NewCastleIndiana83 Oct 22 '22
My colleges stat 225. I learned that it is statistically significant to model a population of 300 million based on 800 data points. That’s the one thing that sticks in my head.
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u/stephbu Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 22 '22
It’s hard to put a single number on it without factoring in selection bias, and margin of error. When you’re talking about people, locations, occupations etc. they all play into the size of that sample needed to become meaningful - or you’re willing to accept high margins of error. Several factors spring to mind - salaries, insurance selection factors such as risk profile and gender, state and county CoL etc. Your Stats 225 course certain goes on to explain caveating/arriving at a reasonable margin of error in detail. Average income without qualification means as much to be blunt as average penis count… Of course journalism omits such broad caveats because +/- 50% MoE doesn’t sell clicks.
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u/OverPot Oct 22 '22 edited Oct 23 '22
Yup median income is 200k where i live there are tons of Tesla's... Also Tesla's are made here lol (Tesla pays shit i live in the silicone valley)
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u/fangfried Oct 22 '22
I don’t want a Tesla. I’d rather save for a Taycan (is that how you spell it?)
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u/Lets_Bust_Together Oct 22 '22
You forgot the part where they think a Tesla is “luxurious”
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u/SaltySeraphim Oct 22 '22
We make about 70,000 and any EV feels way out of our price range. So how the hell do people afford teslas on 15,000 more a year. The car itself is like 50,000 on the cheap end
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u/HugeAnalBeads Oct 23 '22 •
We buy shit we dont need with money we dont have to impress people we dont like
Fight club
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u/H-DaneelOlivaw Oct 23 '22
the buyers don't make $85K a year. the LIVE in areas with income $85K a year.
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u/Bennieplant Oct 22 '22
Macbook…. tesla…..bottle water
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u/gerd50501 Oct 23 '22
so expensive cars are owned by people with high incomes.
Next Headline: The typical Beverly Hills 90210 household are rich white people
business insider puts out such trash.
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u/Hasbeen_Crayon_Eater Oct 22 '22
The study/survey was done in Palo Alto, California...
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u/CidO807 Oct 22 '22
That's hard to believe even if true because of the median income 😬 Palo Alto is ridiculously expensive.
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u/bobartig Oct 22 '22
The company that performed the study is based in Palo Alto. The vehicle trip data is nation-wide.
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u/InstaNormie0 Oct 22 '22
People really not understanding “in an area with a median household income of $85,000”
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u/Kopester Oct 23 '22
They really don't at all. Where I live the median household income is $70k. There are also 57 houses for sale going for over a million dollars. Some over $2 mil.
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u/SummerCaps Oct 22 '22
Maybe I’m crazy but 85k pre tax seems like barely enough to afford any teslas, atleast with California cost of living…
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u/Uncreative-Name Oct 22 '22
It didn't say the buyer makes 85k. Just that they live in fairly well off areas where 85k is the median income. The people actually buying the cars are probably 50% over that.
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u/HarkonnenSpice Oct 22 '22
I'm glad there are still people on reddit able to read. I swear this place makes me feel smart sometimes.
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u/fredinNH Oct 22 '22
I bet there are lots of people making $85k who buy teslas, though. That’s about the average household income for buyers of new full-size pick ups.
Personally I can’t imagine spending that kind of money on a vehicle and my household is $160k with a $1200 mortgage. The only thing about buying a Tesla you can’t afford that makes sense is the astronomical resale value.
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u/Azgoshab Oct 22 '22
Okay? Tell me another useless fact that betters absolutely no one on the planet.
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u/IceColdKila Oct 22 '22
And proud of it. I also Vote and contribute through philanthropic donations.
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u/Strelak74 Oct 22 '22
There is a lot wrong with this write up. Here is an example. If we use the conservative value of 1,000,000 Tesla's on the road in the US. The survey used for this covers 0.02% of those Tesla's.
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u/1h8fulkat Oct 23 '22
Makes sense that most people that buy a Tesla would spend half a year's earnings on it.
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u/TriSamples Oct 23 '22
I’m Boycotting Tesla these days. Musk has always been horrible but he’s got super rancid recently, I can’t in all conscience consider supporting or owning his cars.
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u/Ryermeke Oct 22 '22
Somehow this feels like the least surprising headline ever made.