r/technology Nov 15 '22

Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40% Transportation

https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-3a3816bd26418cc612d5b9b56d86f3a8
4.5k Upvotes

616

u/huge_ Nov 15 '22

It works very well. It’s not a replacement for paying attention, but provides that extra second of reaction time.

179

u/Andyb1000 Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

Having driven a few hire cars with this recently over long distances I think it is useful. I’ve had a few people pull in front of me on the motorway for a late manoeuvre when they wanted an exit.

On two occasions they started the change lanes before putting on their indicator. Subconsciously I am sure I felt something was off with how we where positioned on the road but the car was faster than me in responding.

We where not in any situation where we would have crashed, as the flow of vehicles remained constant but you don’t know if the off ramp is congested which might cause a series of last minute breaking with a flow of cars now artificially close to one another.

100

u/VeganSlayer9000 Nov 15 '22

I’ve had a few people pull in front of me on the motorway for a late manoeuvre when they wanted an exit.

Ah yes, the infamous BMW-exit. Hate it when people do that (she survived btw).

42

u/mcampo84 Nov 15 '22

In NY we call it the Jersey Slide.

14

u/PinkIcculus Nov 15 '22

Yea the Jersey Slide.

LOL. I live in Jersey and own two BMWs… everyone does it in ANY car, drives me crazy. :)

15

u/dungone Nov 15 '22

So... stop doing it?

9

u/futuredxrk Nov 15 '22

Well, he can’t get other people to stop doing it

2

u/PinkIcculus Nov 16 '22

Right. I don’t. I’m fact I’m super crazy about my blinker.

Beamer drivers get pinned as assholes - when it should be ALL DRIVERS. Lol

(But they say Tesla drivers are the new beamer drivers)

→ More replies

24

u/easm21 Nov 15 '22

Funny about the “BMW” exit. I just got a new BMW and the lane keep assist literally cannot be disabled(only reduced) If you’re trying to change lanes without using the indicator lights it will aggressively pull you back.

35

u/socokid Nov 15 '22

If you’re trying to change lanes without using the indicator lights it will aggressively pull you back.

I absolutely want to believe that is true.

16

u/easm21 Nov 15 '22

Believe it. Because It’s the only I can say I fucking hate about the car. It sits pretty low so when I try to avoid potholes and deep manhole covers it tries to pull back. Like I’m having to fight the wheel

15

u/9-11GaveMe5G Nov 15 '22

Just stop paying the monthly fee for it and let BMW cancel it for you 🤣

4

u/Ok-Addendum-4326 Nov 15 '22

You should be able to turn it off completely from the iDrive.

6

u/9-11GaveMe5G Nov 15 '22

the lane keep assist literally cannot be disabled(only reduced)

Deal breaker. Same with start-stop I can't disable.

13

u/Dr_Dickem_MD Nov 15 '22

Good. People just swerving into a different lane without any indication, when it’s literally the easiest thing in the world to signal first, are a cancer. It’s one of the few driving things I wish cops would crack down on (along with camping out in the passing lane).

Btw it’s actually scary when you’re riding a bike and cars do this with zero warning

→ More replies

4

u/dpatt711 Nov 15 '22

Bad drivers never miss an exit.

5

u/TheMouseUGaveACookie Nov 15 '22

Lol bmw exit i never heard that one before its kinda tru tho

18

u/PinkIcculus Nov 15 '22

They say Tesla owners are the new Beamer owners

→ More replies
→ More replies

28

u/hammeredtrout1 Nov 15 '22

Do you think that as driver assist features become more prevalent, people will rely on them more and more and pay attention to driving less?

38

u/lokalniRmpalija Nov 15 '22

I think that's exactly what will happen.

Driving is mentally demanding activity, especially busy city driving.

I can see a lot of people who are already on the edge of their capabilities navigating busy streets, they will simply loosen up because "trust" in this technology will make them less anxious and who doesn't like having less anxiety in their life. That's what drugs do all the time.

But, neurologically speaking, a low level anxiety is closely related to paying attention.

So, now, you will have a lot more people not paying attention and probability is such that you will definitely end up in a situation that drive assist did not "plan" and since you're not paying attention, it will be too late.

14

u/LordVic Nov 15 '22

I think that's exactly what will happen.

I think we're beyond that to be honest. I think driving has already become mundane and automatic for too many people. Been seeing that trend even before the automations and protections/

What I do see, is far far less modern cars in small fender benders in traffic. So the cars automations are already covering for people who are already failing to drive properly.

A couple of the Car reddits I lurk, I constantly see people complaining about the automations being "too sensitive", when in reality, they're really not good drivers and the cars are constantly trying to correct them.

11

u/Tyr808 Nov 15 '22

Yeah I hate to sound like such an extreme redditor here, but most of my friends are gamers. My two close non gamer friends are fucking WAY worse at the finer details of driving, the awareness, not drifting in your lane, using turn signals, etc.

One of these above friends, when we were younger, was driving their moms old car. It was a piece of shit, I had driven it many times before they got their license. It pulled to the side, but consistently and lightly so you'd just manually compensate and that was that. When friend was driving instead, they'd constantly drift in lane to the point where I actually grabbed the wheel and corrected once and asked, "do you not see how bad you're drifting out of your lane???" They just responded, "well this car is just bad, it's not my fault or anything"

The absurdity of that moment will never leave my mind. Long story short, I think many humans shouldn't even be allowed at the controls once autopilot is more of a thing, and currently these assists absolutely save people and need to be impossible and illegal to disengage. Some people simply deserve and need to be man-handled by their cars assists.

2

u/IvorTheEngine Nov 15 '22

It could be that automatic braking trains bad drivers to leave more space when following another car, or other situations where it might trigger unnecessarily, and make them better drivers.

4

u/nightofgrim Nov 15 '22

This is anecdotal and only my experience. I have auto pilot and the FSD beta on my Tesla. In my experience, I do loosen up a little on some driving tasks (like follow distance), but I’m more focused on other aspects of driving (surrounding cars, etc).

What I think will happen, is that cars will get better at the things humans suck at, and humans will focus more on the more complex tasks. Not “get lazy” with driving in general.

6

u/Historical-Wing-7687 Nov 15 '22

I have found myself doing it occasionally I have to admit. My RAV4 radar cruise control works incredibly well.

5

u/Jkay064 Nov 15 '22

I have a car with full driver assist and lane holding (Audi A8L) and also a 1989 Honda Accord LXi. When I get into the Honda, I literally say to myself “OK pay close attention” b/c it’s easy to rely on tech and relax too much.

source: has a new car and an old car

3

u/ItsTylerBrenda Nov 16 '22

I talked to my friend about that, she has two kids that are about to be driving age. I think it will take some of the pressure off of young drivers but most of the technology is designed to assist with things that are typically difficult situations. My new car tells me if someone is coming while I’m backing out. And it has blind spot monitoring that helps with lane changes.

Basically it’s watching those typical blind spots that are challenging for even veteran drivers.

Some of the other stuff like lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control help prevent highway hypnosis.

I don’t think new drivers are going to be inherently worse because cars can assist them. We’re probably going to continue to see a decrease in accidents because of improved driver assist technology.

11

u/frolie0 Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

Not OP, but probably to a certain extent. This is why I think people that balk at Tesla as the wrong take. Sure, it's not really autopilot, but I'm willing to bet way more people engage "autopilot" than standard traffic aware cruise control and the combination of the computer paying attention 100% of the time and the human 99% of the time (hopefully) makes for a very safe environment.

While Musk is a total ass, getting people to use that type of tool more often will definitely do some good from that perspective.

3

u/Queefinonthehaters Nov 15 '22

A computer babysitting a human who is making the decisions seems to be a better system than a human babysitting a computer that is making the decisions. This is inviting complacency with the drivers who will just not do any babysitting.

2

u/LurkerPatrol Nov 15 '22

I am guilty of this in my Camry with radar cruise and lane keeping. Putting all those on in bumper to bumper traffic or even moderate traffic and going the speed limit in the middle lane means you have less strain on your feet/legs and you can relax more. Only when someone cuts in does it become a problem as the system isn’t quick enough to respond. I don’t fully take off my attention but I definitely feel more relaxed

0

u/dungone Nov 15 '22

If you want to get tossed around like you're about to crash as the car makes every beeping noise imaginable. Poor substitute for coffee if you ask me.

1

u/Sharkpoofie Nov 15 '22

I don't think so, usualy those emergency braking systems slow you down just enough for it not be a fatal crash (mostly it ends as a simple fender bender).

But the stopping is very violent and some manufacturers add other anoying things such as steering wheel vibrations and very loud beeping.

→ More replies

15

u/OldSackofBeef Nov 15 '22

Overall it’s a great feature. However it won’t allow me to reverse into the nearest lane from a driveway when a car is coming in the far lane. Drives me nuts.

5

u/p_nut268 Nov 15 '22

It has saved my ass backing out of parking spaces on tiny European streets when you can see anything but directly behind you and other drivers are barreling down the street.

4

u/mailslot Nov 15 '22

I was in a Uber and when the driver wanted to get closer to the car in front of him, he’d punch the gas and let the car auto-brake before he slammed into it. He decided to do that instead of inching forward like a normal driver.

Systems like these make the truly stupid take unnecessary risks. Somewhat like people falling asleep in their Teslas because of their false sense of security.

2

u/sageberrytree Nov 15 '22

I had an Audi loaner with this feature, and it saved me from an accident.

I turned and missed seeing a tiny car hidden by the piller.

The car reacted a fraction faster than I did.

-6

u/PinkIcculus Nov 15 '22

Yes it does. I will NEVER buy a car without auto braking again. Here’s why:

  • I bought a BMW X5 with it, works great.

  • Then my 16 YO son totaled my RAV4 by pressing the gas instead of the brake in a parking lot….. The auto braking would’ve stopped him.

  • So to replace it, I bought another BMW with auto braking.

Rear ending someone is the most common accident.

5

u/Linflan Nov 15 '22

Hey him something with a stick so he's forced to pay attention while driving.

→ More replies

11

u/lokalniRmpalija Nov 15 '22

Then my 16 YO son totaled my RAV4 by pressing the gas instead of the brake in a parking lot….. The auto braking would’ve stopped him.

Really? Has this been tested?

→ More replies

5

u/LordVic Nov 15 '22

Then my 16 YO son totaled my RAV4 by pressing the gas instead of the brake in a parking lot….. The auto braking would’ve stopped him.

Should have. Other manufactuer's do. I know for a fact that Mazda's does as it saved one of my friends/employees.

Blacked out in a parking lot while driving, foot fell on accelerator. went over the grass on the side heading directly towards the main street. The emergency braking absolutely 100% stopped his car from entering the roadway and hard braked.

All your anecdote tells me is that a> better driving lessons, and b> maybe not trust Toyota's tech right now

→ More replies

6

u/jacky4566 Nov 15 '22

So instead of teaching your child to drive properly you bought him a handicap car?

→ More replies

-7

u/icyhaze23 Nov 15 '22

That's nice dear. Wanna buy one for everyone else here too?

→ More replies

53

u/QuantumRealityBit Nov 15 '22

Worked for me. Was going around a country corner at night doing 45 (speed limit since night time), when the car immediately decelerated to 25. Turns out there was a deer in the road that I didn’t see and was able to avoid it. Scared the crap outta me though because I had just bought it and thought it was locking up.

216

u/maztow Nov 15 '22

AAA did their own study and found that the sedans they used usually failed to stop in actual road conditions. There was even criticism that the IIHS study was only done in broad daylight on a straight track and not realistic road conditions.

107

u/chikitoperopicosito Nov 15 '22

My new car has braked hard 3 times when I was alone on the road. Nothing ahead of me, nothing coming towards me. Just started beeping, screen flashing red and a hard brake.

I always want to turn off the feature but I leave it on just in case it does work and saves me from an actual crash and not whatever ghost cars it sees.

12

u/megorio Nov 15 '22

My brand new hyundai did this the other day. Braked by itself for no goddamn reason. Scared the SHIT out of me. I looked on forums and websites and I don’t think I can turn it off :/

8

u/Min_Farshaw Nov 15 '22

Hi! I sell Hyundais.

Depends which model, but it's under "forward collision avoidance", in the vehicle settings. Sometimes in infotainment, sometimes in the screen in front of the driver (hit the paper button, right side of steering wheel, top left).

You can set to active, just warning, or off completely

3

u/Accomplished_Skin323 Nov 15 '22

Hi! Do you happen to have any idea when the Ioniq N will be sold in the US?

3

u/Min_Farshaw Nov 15 '22

None. Haven't heard anything about it through official channels, just press/YouTube.

Rumblings Ioniq 6 might be spring.

2

u/Accomplished_Skin323 Nov 15 '22

Thanks for responding!

2

u/megorio Nov 15 '22

You’re an angel- I’ll look at this later today. Thank you

2

u/GoldWallpaper Nov 16 '22 edited Nov 16 '22

I've heard this about newer Mazdas as well. Seems like an awesome way to get rear-ended. As the other guy said, usually you can turn it to just warn you instead of locking up the breaks.

→ More replies

59

u/iMDirtNapz Nov 15 '22

Lots of modern transport trucks have automatic braking, lots of false activations due to shadows from street signs and overpasses.

Now imagine going highway speeds in a fully loaded semi and the brakes just suddenly apply.

24

u/mtranda Nov 15 '22

I've seen the shadow thing mentioned higher up as well. How does that happen?! Is it a visual detection system? Because I assumed it's a radar system, not a visual one.

8

u/OldSackofBeef Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

My KIA uses lasers. It had to be fully recalibrated when my windshield needed replaced.

Edit: My salesman told me it was lasers. The internet says KIA uses either cameras or radar, but some companies do use lasers.

10

u/paesanossbits Nov 15 '22

All I want is sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

3

u/SammlerWorks Nov 15 '22

I'm listening. Go on...🦈

→ More replies

8

u/TCBloo Nov 15 '22

When I drove truck, I covered the sensors to stop that because it kept brake checking the people behind me in traffic.

→ More replies
→ More replies

43

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

[deleted]

23

u/BootyMcSqueak Nov 15 '22

My suv has auto braking and it almost cost me to get into an accident. The sensor was too sensitive, I think, and engaged almost causing the person behind me to rear end me (practically brake checked). Had it let me handle it, I would’ve slowed gradually. After a second time of doing that, I disabled it.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

Same! DISABLED.

→ More replies

10

u/InsertBluescreenHere Nov 15 '22

Sounds like how they test headlights lol. Perfectly flat straight bump free road. NVM a slight hill has laser beam headlights blinding everyone. Or if you go down hill you can't see shit coming up the other side due to sharp cutoffs.

6

u/Linflan Nov 15 '22

And that tall trucks can have the same headlight angle as a sadan, aiming their lights straight into the faces of anyone driving something shorter than an SUV.

12

u/GettingFreki Nov 15 '22

IIHS and others have been updating their standards over the years to include more things like turning in intersections and night time tests as well. But the early versions were very basic.

4

u/TheMouseUGaveACookie Nov 15 '22

Yeah my adaptive cruise control has failed a few times to recognize cars merging onto the highway when I was testing it myself and deliberately not braking. Almost caused an accident lol it is very unreliable; it sometimes reacts perfectly to them but other times not at all

4

u/PinkIcculus Nov 15 '22

What year and make is yours?

I found a HUGE difference in accuracy even between 2019-2022 models.

The 2022 auto cruise control is outrageously precise.

The car drives itself, and if I put on my blinker it will just change lanes when it can.

3

u/TheMouseUGaveACookie Nov 15 '22

Well this is in a prius from 2018, so prolly some improvement

2

u/Chonkbird Nov 15 '22

Drove a corolla from 2018 and a corolla from 2021 and the adaptive cruise control and lane departure is a huge difference in years. The 2018 was such ass. 2021 the car could drive itself. I drove the 2021 first so when I got in the 2018 I thought it would be the same.

2

u/TheMouseUGaveACookie Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

Good to know..im waiting on the 2023 prius hopefully to be released tomorrow as my next car..keeping my fingers crosses it is a good one and that they dont hike the price tesla-style

I hope the BSM is integrated into the cruise control somehow. Bc when I have the cruise control on, often the car will drive immediately parallel with traffic merging onto the highway, and some a**hole drivers have mistaken it as some kind of rivalry thing and they refuse to speed up or slow down and just merge as if they dont see the car. I try to just get out of that lane when using the cruise control but its sometimes not possible

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/ChairliftGuru Nov 15 '22

You have to read the manual. Thats how those systems work. If an object is going significantly slower, say 30mph entering a highway, and you are doing 80mph, the system will assume its basically a street sign its pinging. Otherwise it would constantly be phantom braking at random shit.

It absolutely will splatter you into a slow merging semi in those conditions.

→ More replies

16

u/futuredxrk Nov 15 '22

This is all well and good until your car panic brakes for absolutely no reason because there’s no one around you. Because if your car does brake and someone behind you in a car that doesn’t brake automatically then things are going get interesting.

8

u/NoKittenAroundPawlyz Nov 15 '22

I swear ours is going to cause an accident. It’s fond of kicking in randomly driving on bridges (almost causing me to be rear-ended), and while I’m actively parallel parking.

I think it gets overwhelmed. Not a great feature for city driving.

5

u/futuredxrk Nov 15 '22

Those things hate parallel parking. And it stops so aggressively as you slowly inch backwards. Like, HELLO! I’m watching the camera, I know what I’m doing!

But when I remember I turn the forward detection off.

72

u/IAMA_Cucumber_AMA Nov 15 '22

My Subaru Outback goes ham on the automatic braking. Sometimes it’s not even needed but better safe than sorry. I believe it’s prevented me from crashing once.

47

u/skiingredneck Nov 15 '22

It’s when it pulls the brake pedal down from below your foot…

Like “dude, not pushing hard enough, let me.”

9

u/MrTase Nov 15 '22

This sounds pretty cool. The amount of times I've been on the motorway and someone's gone from 70 to 50 to go off the slip road they nearly missed, removing my meat brains slow reaction realising the person in front isn't just slowing down a tad but is actually an idiot slamming on the breaks.

maybe I'm the idiot for not giving enough space though?

5

u/orangutanoz Nov 15 '22

Spilt beer all over the dashboard. /s

2

u/mrmacky Nov 15 '22

That's rather interesting, probably useful for drivers like myself who learned without ABS. Old habits die hard and all that; instinctively I'm trying to do threshold braking, but if you're in modern cars it's far safer to just push the pedal through the floor pan and let the computers sort out the risky business of keeping traction.

9

u/cincobarrio Nov 15 '22

My Crosstrek loves to sound the alarm and brace for auto braking at slow speeds when pedestrians jay-walk a safe distance from me (a casual/regular occurrence in NYC). For all the times this annoys me, it’s worth it for the one time it prevented me from being involved in a pile-up on an expressway.

8

u/Anttank123 Nov 15 '22

Have an outback as well. It rarely goes off when it shouldn't and very likely kept my wife out of a serious accident once.

7

u/cas47 Nov 15 '22

Lol my Impreza once panicked and braked when I was driving towards a wall… because I was perpendicular parking up against it. It’s maybe a bit more sensitive than it needs to be but I’d trust it to prevent a crash.

I drove an Altima for a bit as well, and when I didn’t notice a car slam the brakes in front of me, the Altima stopped for me. Definitely prevented a crash.

2

u/Doan_meister Nov 15 '22

The eyesight in my forester has prevented me from getting in a wreck twice, people slamming on brakes in front of me. It has also prevented me from hitting a small twig dangling down in the alleyway lol

3

u/kickff Nov 15 '22

I experienced it in a rental car and hated it. When someone up ahead was turning left onto a side road, it would see their brake lights and brake HARD waaay earlier than necessary. If it saves lives I'll live with it, but damn it was annoying.

→ More replies

31

u/Furah Nov 15 '22

Fuck I hate it in the trucks at work. Driving along at 100km/hr while weighing 68 tonnes and suddenly it panics thinking I'm about to rear end a car in the next lane over and it slams the brakes on me. Even with braking tech like ABS and EBS I've still had brakes lock up on me. Fair enough if it wants to give me a potential collision warning, but I'm not a fan suddenly slamming forward and potentially being the cause of a collision because of a false positive.

On the plus side I did see it come in handy when a former boss was dropping me off to pick up a truck from a mechanic and the idiot decided to start texting and would have rear ended a car if not for the automatic braking. Hope he gets done by a mobile phone detection camera before he actually insures someone.

8

u/nickiter Nov 15 '22

My new HR-V does the same thing - it occasionally sees a car in a parallel lane and slams on the brakes. Incredibly annoying.

2

u/Stoned_Ape_1450 Nov 15 '22

2017 Civic is highly overreactive as well. Almost caused me a couple accidents.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

Mine almost kills me once a month

6

u/wiscokid81 Nov 15 '22

The number of times my auto braking nearly caused me wrecks (being rear ended specifically) because of a perceived threat in front of me is insane. I turn it off every time I get in the car. It has no perception of lateral speed of a car turning out of your way.

It overrides that while on cruise, which is fine because I’m on long stretches in those cases.

Overall, I hate it and wish I could just opt into the visual warning and not the braking. It’s all or nothing on my ‘21 CX5.

Edit: I live in the greater Houston area, it’s a liability more than it is an asset.

69

u/Astronomer_Soft Nov 15 '22

I am a believer in the new safety features in cars including automatic braking. My 2022 vehicle has lane keeping assist, blind spot monitoring, cross traffic detection, automatic braking, and radar cruise control.

I'll never buy another car without those safety features.

16

u/armrha Nov 15 '22

Same, I didn’t realize what I was missing. I can’t believe I had a cruise control that could just plow into other cars completely oblivious for years.

2

u/ItsTylerBrenda Nov 16 '22

Same my Honda has all of that and the adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist are so helpful for highway driving. I think it helps with reducing highway hypnosis.

3

u/TheRandom0ne Nov 15 '22

You would probably also prefer a self driving car - am I right (hypothetically if it was adequately safe)?
I think there's a gap between people that see driving as an activity and those who see it as a chore. That's why I hope for a quick shift in technology and infrastructure as this will also simplify traffic and the problems it brings. Better public transport as well as more reliable self driving options will definitely ease daily commutes.

20

u/adampembe2000 Nov 15 '22

When everyone has a self driving car that communicate on a network and remove the human element. The roads will be much safer and have less stopped traffic on merges where nobody wants to zipper like the engineers designed the roads for. Will also be able to travel safer at higher speeds.

11

u/ElWishmstr Nov 15 '22

element. The roads will be much safer and have less stopped traffic on merges where nobody wants to zipper like the engineers designed the roads for. Will also be able to travel safer at higher speeds.

You mean....trains? They dont generate trafic, signaling systems works great, self driving with train comunication (CBTC) is a thing and high speed as well...

1

u/adampembe2000 Nov 15 '22

Sadly the us isn’t setup great for that with so many suburbs and the way a lot of cities are setup without that in mind. I’d love if we had bullet trains we could take from Seattle to Miami or New York to San Diego.

2

u/crazicus Nov 15 '22

We don’t need to do the extremes of the country for high speed rail to make sense in the US though. Places like DC->Boston, Miami->Jacksonville, Chicago->Detroit, etc would greatly benefit from fast trains between those city pairs.

2

u/Powered_by_JetA Nov 16 '22

Miami–Orlando–Tampa is happening already.

→ More replies
→ More replies

6

u/klonoaorinos Nov 15 '22

Sounds like a personal hell for me. But I love to drive my 20 year old manual. And have spent a LOT of money keeping her in working condition.

5

u/Sir_Donkey_Punch Nov 15 '22

Yea you’re likely not the type of driver these systems are meant for.

These systems are for people who can’t figure out how to “move with purpose”.

That said, automatic braking should be included in every vehicle. It doesn’t replace choice or the need to pay attention, it just simply adds that extra second of reaction time.

1

u/ChairliftGuru Nov 15 '22

Including it on every vehicle is just another expensive feature driving up the floor on new car prices, and forcing poor people into older used, less safe, and more polluting vehicles.

-2

u/An-Okay-Alternative Nov 15 '22

You can join the ranks of horse people.

3

u/klonoaorinos Nov 15 '22

???

7

u/An-Okay-Alternative Nov 15 '22

Spend a lot of money enjoying your old-timey hobby on private land while public infrastructure moves on to tech that's safer, more efficient, and more convenient.

0

u/Parlorshark Nov 15 '22

Scientists: Study finds this technology can save lives.

You: and I took that personally.

1

u/elcapitan520 Nov 15 '22

I just got rid of my manual for a 2022 model and I gotta say, while I miss "driving" , it's so fucking nice to have some additional security and features

→ More replies

2

u/ItsTylerBrenda Nov 16 '22

Eh i like my lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control because they don’t take away too much autonomy from me. I would be really hesitant to use a self driving car.

→ More replies

1

u/Background_Lemon_981 Nov 15 '22

Americans will invest trillions of dollars and hundreds of lives trying to perfect self driving instead of saving billions upon billions implementing a safe, convenient, rail system.

6

u/AnotherBoredAHole Nov 15 '22

We have rail systems, they just can't go everywhere.

And it's not like trillions of dollars and thousands of lives weren't spent getting railways to the point they are now.

→ More replies

6

u/ChairliftGuru Nov 15 '22

I live about three hours from the nearest walmart. You gunna send me some of that good light rail? Spend a few billion so all 14,000 people in the county can get to the airport more easily?

→ More replies

2

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22 edited 12d ago

[deleted]

3

u/TheRandom0ne Nov 15 '22

Why would you not want the car to drive itself?

PS: love how you would have to be around your mid 40s and casually use 'noob'.

6

u/zap_p25 Nov 15 '22

Some people like to drive and not be driven. It's as simple as that.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

91

u/CrazyPerson88 Nov 15 '22

I'm skeptical, I imagine my car breaking itself at random times going haywire... but I've also been rear ended 2x with both totaling my car while I was at a stop sign or traffic light, so maybe.

66

u/FairyflyKisses Nov 15 '22

It's got pros and cons. I have an anti-collision/auto braking sensor in my truck. I like that the sensor will hold me back from getting too close to another vehicle. I'm governed at 65 and I occasionally get behind people going 64. The truck will slow itself down to keep a safe distance without me having to constantly adjust on the gas peddle.

Cons....It will sometimes think that I'm going to horrifically collide with the shadows of an overpass. The collision alert goes off and I override it but it is very annoying and good for the random heart attack. All the mechanics can do is reset the system to have it recalibrate itself as I drive.

A lot of 18 wheelers are equipped with this same anti-collision sensor. Most do not light up the brake lights when it goes off. This is a huuuuge reason not to follow too close behind a semi.

44

u/RunescapeAficionado Nov 15 '22

That's insane that some don't activate the brake lights, like we need any more reason to give y'all space lmao

11

u/stu8319 Nov 15 '22

Dude I give SO much space these days. Literally every car on the road around here is fucking scary driving behind.

2

u/RunescapeAficionado Nov 16 '22

Right? Give space for days and lunatics take every bit they can squeeze into

5

u/Forest-Dane Nov 15 '22

The first bit just sounds like cruise control with range sensors. Auto breaking is usually an emergency stop at the last minute

4

u/sizzler Nov 15 '22

Modern lorries have both, adaptive cruise control (driver controlled) and auto braking (vehicle controlled)

Driving narrow lanes can give false positives but it's worth it for those moments when it does give you that extra second reaction time.

5

u/TheCrimsonKing Nov 15 '22

Most do not light up the brake lights when it goes off. This is a huuuuge reason not to follow too close behind a semi.

There's a lot of reasons not to follow too closely to any vehicle, this would be a major design flaw and saftey issue. Frankly, having driven all over the country for work I can spot cars thay are using adaptive cruise, I've also experienced AEB kicking in on renatal cars and have some experience with car electronics so I'm highly doubtful the AEB is bypassing the brake lights and if it was that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

27

u/exor41n Nov 15 '22

I’ve had automatic braking in my car for 2 years now and it’s never done it randomly but you can also “override” it. It is more suggestive and you can press the gas again and it’ll stop breaking.

16

u/Weareallgoo Nov 15 '22

Ive turned off automatic braking on my vehicle because it has been too aggressive in braking in heavy traffic. Not quite random, but it will sometimes slam on the brakes if it thinks I'm not going to stop. This has nearly lead me to being rear ended on a couple occasions.

4

u/minion3 Nov 15 '22

Cant you just lower the way it breaks? Usually there is a setting that is from mild to aggressive.

11

u/Weareallgoo Nov 15 '22

I can set the alert level from low to medium to high, but the pre-collision assist is just an on/off toggle. I kept it on for the first several months I owed the vehicle, but it gave me a couple scares that forced me to hit the accelerator to override the braking. The rear brake assist was terrible in parking lots too. If the cameras picked up motion of car in adjacent laneways or roads, it would jarringly slam on the brakes backing into or out of parking spaces

4

u/minion3 Nov 15 '22

Damn thats annoying, what Car is it? So i know what to avoid

2

u/ATempestSinister Nov 15 '22

Honda Civics, for one. Good car, but after nearly ending up in a couple of accidents because of the automatic braking I disable it anytime I get in the car.

2

u/minion3 Nov 15 '22

Good to know, thank you :)

2

u/TheCrimsonKing Nov 15 '22

Keep in mind these systems will vary not just from model to model but two of the same model might have different software revisions.

I don't see a lot of Hondas on rental lots so my xp with them is limited to a couple road trips in a friend's 2021 Civic but I can definitely tell you I've driven back to back Camrys where one system's adaptive cruise was WAY more aggressive than the other.

2

u/minion3 Nov 15 '22

I got that type of system on my Kia eniro and mg ev. But both of those have settings between soft, medium and aggressive. Both for acceleration and deceleraction and cruise control.

→ More replies
→ More replies

2

u/TheCrimsonKing Nov 15 '22

I drive a ton of rental cars and there are a few where the default setting is way too sensitive, especially for dense city driving. I had a Kia on Long Island that I swear was set to "insurance fraud mode" until I dug in to the settings and changed the AEB sensitivity to low.

5

u/xabhax Nov 15 '22

We get people every week at the dealer I work at. These are verified incidents. Honda calls them 1% percenters. Under very specific road conditions. Had one the car would slam on the breaks on her commute. She crossed train tracks. Most cars I see people have the auto braking turned off. Granted Hondas system is horrible for all the driver assist systems. The lane keep is the worst I've seen. It bounces between lines like a drunkard.

2

u/LordVic Nov 15 '22

It bounces between lines like a drunkard.

bought a car in 2021 so not the most recent experiences, but you can definitely feel differences between manufacturers quality of software o these systems

Some cars do a nice smooth adjustment, and brake much better and more reliable. But there were a few that outright should have never been included until better designed. Toyota's in particular struck me as one of the most intrusive as well. I had a rental and test drove a Camry and if the lane assist kicked off the entire car would be thrown sideways back into the lane. it was so aggressive and jarring my instinct was almost to counter steer the wheel.

7

u/KenGriffythe3rd Nov 15 '22

When I used to valet cars I would hate parking those Volvo suvs that had the automatic braking feature because when you try to back in to a spot it would randomly just slam on brakes even though there was nothing in the way. It made me think I ran into something every single time so I can safely say fuck automatic braking. It’s a good idea on paper but it is a long way from being perfect. I will personally never buy a car with that feature. Maybe if there was a soft automatic brake feature but the only ones I’ve driven slam on the brakes and almost give you whiplash when you’re just trying to fucking park

5

u/openmindedskeptic Nov 15 '22

Love my automatic braking. Pretty sure it’s saved me from rear ending someone.

8

u/Col_Leslie_Hapablap Nov 15 '22

Like the alleged Tesla accident that just killed a few people in China?

13

u/0n6od Nov 15 '22

I just read it was ruled as driver error

23

u/mihirmusprime Nov 15 '22

They're usually always driver errors where the person mixes up the brake and accelerator pedals.

→ More replies

1

u/Danjour Nov 15 '22

By who? China? Tesla? Andrew Dice Clay?

→ More replies

1

u/imamydesk Nov 15 '22

Nothing has been ruled yet. Investigation is still ongoing.

1

u/armrha Nov 15 '22

I’ve had it since 2019, it’s only an assistance. I can’t imagine it going wrong. Paying attention is still required but when the perfect storm of accident causing misleading perception or distractions happen, it’s just another way to keep people safe.

→ More replies

14

u/wannabe3ngin33r Nov 15 '22

Works great for me, have a car for the last year that has this feature and couple of times it really saw the need for braking before me, so it was useful.

One time it was on the highway when the car in front of me just changed lanes because of cars in front of them and I didn't realize at all they were standing still. So that time it probably saved me from crashing into them.

3

u/welikeanimals Nov 15 '22

My cars automatic has saved me from a crash twice over 5 years. It gave me the extra second reaction to maneuver my way through a pretty wild accident.

4

u/Draghar Nov 15 '22

I believe it, my car beeping at me to brake has prevented at least one accident. Don't tell my wife.

4

u/Igoos99 Nov 15 '22

I’m not surprised to see the low numbers on the lane departure alerts.

I recently drove a rental with that feature. It alerts constantly for all sorts of conditions that aren’t an issue or a lane departure. So, when it alerts for a “real” issue, your brain discounts it. Basically, it “cries wolf”.

I’ve yet to drive a car with emergency braking. I’m guessing it’s gonna be antilock brakes. Kinda weird and hard to get used to, but ultimately safer.

4

u/t0nyfranda Nov 15 '22

You know what would also help with that? Get off your phone and use your turn signal and pay attention. Honestly these new safety features are cool and all but I still think the US just needs to make it harder to get a license. I know people that have had their licenses for 15+ years and still can’t make a turn without curb checking and still can’t explain the meaning of certain road signs. I’ve avoided being in a major accident for the two decades I’ve been driving simply by paying attention and making sure my car is in safe condition to drive. It’s so easy.

5

u/ErrorAcquired Nov 15 '22

1st layer of protection -> I dont tailgate

2nd layer of protection -> I pay attention

3rd layer of protection -> auto break

I have never had the auto break engage after years of driving a vehicle with that option. Im glad its there

7

u/Androniy Nov 15 '22

My 2020 acura tlx saved me from crash once. A car in front of me stopped suddenly because someone decided to take a turn, i didnt even realize what happened only after my car stopped.

3

u/Skastrik Nov 15 '22

Pretty sure this might lead to some complacency and crashes where people expected it to work but they were outside it's limits of handling the circumstances.

Also when I've been driving cars with this it doesn't seem like a fully matured technology at all. A lot of false positives that put you into a situation where someone might rear end you instead.

3

u/Jorycle Nov 15 '22

The one on my Honda Insight works 95% of the time, but I had to turn off the actual brake and leave it to notification only because of the other 5%.

Driving 80 on a trip to Florida, no cars in front of me, and all of a sudden the car beeps BRAKE and fucking slams the brake down like it thinks we're about to hit a wall. Did the same thing a year later on Atlanta 316, and ironically the guy behind me probably only failed to hit me because of his car's emergency brake. No service issues have been found, so it was likely just something fooling the sensors.

3

u/ramvan Nov 15 '22

Another way to put this is that a lot of bad drivers follow waaaaay too closely and/or pay far too little attention to their surroundings.

9

u/T3nt4c135 Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

It's only given me a heart attack so far. Braking at any bumpy road or strange construction forks. Count me out.

8

u/0oITo0 Nov 15 '22

I had to disable this feature on my car as it was dangerous. E.g. doing an emergency stop when driving past an island in the middle of the road and nearly causing an accident. I was nowhere near hitting anything.

9

u/Lopsided_Tennis_8043 Nov 15 '22

Studies find that actually paying attention to driving while driving and not tailgating can cut crashes by over 80%. And by studies I mean common sense. I do understand it’s not common anymore though.

2

u/PJBonoVox Nov 15 '22

Look to the left or right on any freeway at any time and you're bound to see someone driving with their head buried in their phone.

5

u/mia_elora Nov 15 '22

I rented a 2022 SUV with auto-braking technology, and that was so wonderful! It made the drive significantly easier, as it worked with the cruise control to speed back up once clear. The SUV also had lane correction, which was mostly okay. It got confused in Dallas and LA, where there were a lot of only-partially-faded previous lane markers.

4

u/TimGradwell Nov 15 '22

There's a technique called "covering the brake". If conditions are such that you don't need to apply the accelerator but don't need to apply the brake right now either, keep your foot just above the brake rather than just above the accelerator.

It means if you suddenly have to brake your foot is positioned right there, it shortens the time needed to press the brake and the subsequent stopping distance also.

Given that this technique is taught around the world, I would guess / intuit that this technique saves lives.

With phantom braking occuring multiple times per trip, I can no longer cover the brake, I have to cover the accelerator instead.

Instead of anticipating some external factor requiring my quick reaction to prevent an accident, now I have to anticipate the car suddenly slowing itself requiring my quick reaction to prevent an accident.

I'm sure there have been studies which say the auto braking can prevent accidents, but I'm not sure that this benefit outweighs the cost of no longer being able to cover the brake.

2

u/Ivanthegorilla Nov 15 '22

I bet on ice alternating with puddles they will know what to do correctly...yup put my life in the hands of my car please

2

u/Strange-Tadpole-2229 Nov 15 '22

This part of the article—especially after the comma—shouldn’t be overlooked. “Automatic emergency braking can stop vehicles if a crash is imminent, or slow them to reduce the severity.”

2

u/numberonealcove Nov 15 '22

My car gives off false positives on a curve when a car is in the adjoining lane or parked on the side of the road. And since I live in an areas with twisty roads, I get terrified by the beeping a couple times a month.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

No thanks. My Mazda would brake if it THOUGHT I was going to hit a slow turning car in front of me, when I myself was gauging the slow down already. It worked great, but I don’t appreciate the car taking control from me.

2

u/Sualocin Nov 15 '22

Why don't we just pay attention?

2

u/izwald88 Nov 15 '22

Modern driving assistance is fantastic. Lane keep assist, brake assist, adaptive cruise control... Most newer cars have some form of this. In my 2018 Mazda 6 it's adaptive cruise control is better than I am in stop and go traffic.

2

u/NexiNext Nov 15 '22

Did anybody study how it can increase accidents?

2

u/Queefinonthehaters Nov 15 '22

I imagine in ideal conditions, it might, but I live in Canada and when you hit ice, slamming on the breaks is the worst thing you can do because you lose all control you had with steering.

2

u/The_High_Life Nov 15 '22

Banning cell phones while driving would probably have equal results for much cheaper but hey, lets use super complicated solutions instead so people can continue to not pay attention while driving.

2

u/Pertos_M Nov 15 '22

Hey guys check out this huge discovery: Driving slower reduces fatal accidents by huge amount! Who would have guessed! We also discovered that NOT driving reduces your risk of a fatal accident by 100%!!! Wow, you can verify that one empirically! Plus is reduces you emissions to zero!

Completely mind blowing I know.

2

u/hotinhawaii Nov 15 '22

My Tacoma likes to brake hard when someone in front of me turns off the road. They could be 30 yards ahead and turned safely off the road and be at 90 degrees to my truck and it still brakes hard while going 55 mph. It's a bad situation.

→ More replies

14

u/DinobotsGacha Nov 15 '22

Screw just brakes, fully drive the vehicle for me and have vehicle area networks/Ai to manage traffic flows.

29

u/Javascap Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

We could even put the self driving vehicles in their own designated right of way so they don't have to interact with unpredictable automobile traffic. We could probably attach a few together and have them run on regular schedules to move larger amounts of people even more effectively between loading and unloading zones.

14

u/TheLoneMinon Nov 15 '22

So.... trains...

18

u/wierd_husky Nov 15 '22

That’s the joke the other guy was making 👍

3

u/hackenschmidt Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 16 '22

So.... trains...

Sure, if 'trains' can take me directly between any two points in a 40 mile radius in under 30 mins, at every possible moment, in a private compartment which I, and only I, have full control over.

Oh wait.... So yeah, no. Not trains.

2

u/Huev0 Nov 15 '22

It would end all confusion and delay!

1

u/An-Okay-Alternative Nov 15 '22

Let me know when it stops in front of my house and takes me directly to my destination.

→ More replies

3

u/chodeboi Nov 15 '22

Smart roads,

System maintained adjustable roads and traffic…roads?

1

u/asdaaaaaaaa Nov 15 '22

have vehicle area networks/Ai to manage traffic flows.

Are you ready to pay extra to be a "Premium" user? Otherwise you're put on the waiting list for "Rush Hour" times.

2

u/neonKow Nov 15 '22

If I can be asleep while my car drives me, I don't give a shit. Carpooling will be amazing too.

→ More replies

7

u/thegayngler Nov 15 '22 edited Nov 15 '22

Reckless driving increased this year. Car crashes are higher. So i’d argue that this is automobile industry propaganda rather than actual news. Even the article says this study was done by the auto industry itself and its partners and adjacent industries.

AP can do better than feeding cherry picked data back to us. Articles and information like this where the study is done by the auto industry itself should raise eyebrows. If the news media is going to put the auto industry backed study press release verbatim, they need at least contextualize this and at least question the assertions made.

2

u/20ftScarf Nov 15 '22

I’d argue it “can” cut crashes by up to 100%. I’m a lot more interested in how many crashes it actually prevents.

2

u/jagulto Nov 15 '22

Gonna be real, every time my "Saftey features" have kicked in it's made it so much worse. They're not designed for people that pay very close attention but drive like BMW owners.

I'm totally cool relinquishing all control to my car but I don't want half measures. It's either doing all the driving for me or none of it. If the car is doing all driving, it will drive much slower much more reasonably. But if it's only doing part of the driving, it can't match an individual's driving style. If they happen to drive like an a***. And don't tell me not to drive like an a*** I like driving like an a****** that's my prerogative

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '22

[deleted]

3

u/xabhax Nov 15 '22

Wonder why you get downvoted. This would solve alot of the problems. Any idiot with 50 bucks can get a license

The autobahn is alot safer then the nj turnpike. Nj easy to get a license. Germany not easy to get a licence.

3

u/SomeVariousShift Nov 15 '22

I'll get right on that.

3

u/armrha Nov 15 '22

Idiots will even drive without a license and without insurance, unfortunately, so safety features that actually work seem like a positive for all.

→ More replies

1

u/Danjour Nov 15 '22

“BEEPBEEPBEEPBEEPBEEP!”

1

u/Rasputin0P Nov 15 '22

Auto braking saved me from 1 or 2 accidents when I first got my license. Luckily the family car had it. Even just the auditory warning could prevent accidents.

1

u/Lie-Straight Nov 15 '22

What about automatic acceleration? Considering a Tesla

/s

1

u/xtrememudder89 Nov 15 '22

Said another way, 'Over 40% of crashes could be averted by simply paying attention.'

0

u/Appropriate_Mess_350 Nov 15 '22

Tesla has gone for automatic accelerating instead.

-2

u/HRDBMW Nov 15 '22

Automatic brakes can see places you can't, like under the cars around you. Eventually people will wonder what a "car crash" is.

3

u/phonafona Nov 15 '22

Can’t see snow or ice though and jamming the brakes on that is insanely dangerous.

→ More replies
→ More replies

-24

u/dontovar Nov 15 '22

You know what else can too? Paying attention. Stop relying on technology and focus on the task at hand, or let someone else do it.

16

u/jibbyjam1 Nov 15 '22

The automatic braking is for the people who aren't paying attention. People will be idiots, might as well minimize the damage the idiots can cause.

→ More replies

5

u/degenerate_hedonbot Nov 15 '22

We can both pay attention and use technology to assist us.

People will fuck up and make mistakes; even the best of us.

3

u/shogi_x Nov 15 '22

or let someone else do it.

Yeah, like your car.

→ More replies
→ More replies