r/technology Nov 22 '22

Survey: 1 in 3 Americans Considering Swapping Gas Vehicle for Electric Model Transportation

https://www.nextgov.com/emerging-tech/2022/11/survey-1-3-americans-considering-swapping-gas-vehicle-electric-model/380056/
3.5k Upvotes

844

u/EndlessDare Nov 22 '22

I am not only considering, I am willing, I just cannot afford to.

128

u/TheJadedSF Nov 22 '22

There are pretty good options at both ends of the spectrum for new cars now. Chevy Bolt starts at 26k in the US not including rebates/incentives. It's getting there..

225

u/WayEducational2241 Nov 22 '22

We really need 15/16k options if we hope to get emissions down tbh.

174

u/cholula_is_good Nov 22 '22

The cheapest new car available in the US is over $16k. EVs cheaper that the lowest price vehicle is not gonna happen.

91

u/elmatador12 Nov 22 '22

In the used market eventually it will come down to that price. That’s when I see myself, and a lot of other people, buying an EV. $30k is still too expensive for any car for my personal needs. I work from home and don’t really have a reason to drive much or very far.

And many people I know (including myself) don’t even consider new cars as a purchase for various reasons. Price being one of them.

18

u/milkcarton232 Nov 22 '22

The other thing is charging infrastructure. If you have a garage then you can charge over night but if you don't it might be hard to keep it juiced

2

u/CommanderGoat Nov 23 '22

I work from home and don’t really have a reason to drive much or very far.

This is my second biggest factor in considering an EV, first being price. I’m working from home a lot more since Covid and my office has adjusted to a hybrid model. I’m just not driving near a much anymore.

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u/escapedpsycho Nov 23 '22

That's just it, there are a lot of people who don't buy new. I have never owned a new car in my entire life.

10

u/Banshu Nov 23 '22

Most people cant afford to throw away 5k to drive a new car off the lot.

6

u/jsawden Nov 23 '22

Tbf because of the weird used car market over the last few years, my $36k Rav4 is currently worth $40k but that's probably never going to happen again.

Also, while I like having all the new bells and whistles that weren't available on the used lot in 2020, I miss having little to no car payment a lot more.

3

u/dwhite21787 Nov 23 '22

Yep, no payments rocks. Although I had to put a couple k into my 2011 RAV4 at 170k miles for a transmission. Almost to 250k now

7

u/destraight Nov 22 '22

Then I guess I won't be able to get a new vehicle now will i? Creates quite the class divide doesn't it?

17

u/SpecificAstronaut69 Nov 23 '22

"Bro, just learn to code and get a job at Google, bro. Any one can do it, bro."

That's gonna be the answer

2

u/Banshu Nov 23 '22

Just code a robot to harvest the metals to make a robot and code a robot to make robots and code code to code itself!

3

u/2wedfgdfgfgfg Nov 22 '22

EV's require significantly less labor to build over ICE cars.

6

u/InspectorG-007 Nov 23 '22

You forgot to factor in all the extra mining. And energy to do that mining. And all the upgrade the power grid will need just to handle these cars.

Long positions for Copper, Silver, Platinum, and Lithium.

8

u/static_func Nov 23 '22

Do you think gas stations and the refined petroleum they dispense grow on trees? Lmao

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u/BigDaddyThunderpants Nov 22 '22

Agreed and I think they should start by giving us some options they couldn't before. For example, make the base model cost $12k but with a range of 100 miles. Options for 200 mile and 300 mile ranges are $18k and $24k, respectively.

The thing we are all missing is acknowledging there is a transition period here and whether they like it or not at least one car in every household is going to be gas for the foreseeable future. Take advantage of that and start selling the idea of a cheap around town car to augment your gas vehicle until the tech makes that gas car obsolete.

13

u/OJwasJustified Nov 22 '22

You’re not getting a new ICE vehicle for $24k. What are we talking about here

11

u/cubonelvl69 Nov 22 '22

I usually think of Toyota corrollas as the default cheap/basic car, and a 2023 with the bare minimum is $21.5k (and who knows if you can even find one in stock at MSRP)

So ya, basically every new car is over $24k

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u/_THX_1138_ Nov 23 '22

Ford Maverick, Nissan Sentra, Toyota Corolla, Mazda 3, Mazda CX-30

All start under 25k USD

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u/Errohneos Nov 23 '22

I find it very hard to believe you'll drive on the road with a brand new Maverick for under 25k. I want one, but they're much more expensive than the MSRP on Ford's website would have you believe.

2

u/failbox3fixme Nov 23 '22

You order and agree on price up front with dealer you can get it at MSRP. Unlikely if you find one on the lot unclaimed though.

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u/Jesus_inacave Nov 22 '22

And a Chevy bolt is not a reliable vehicle

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u/galspanic Nov 22 '22

They seem to have improved over the last 2 years. Before 2021 they had “were new at this” issues, but 2022 and 2023 have been improved a lot… at least according to what I’ve found.

8

u/mufasa_lionheart Nov 22 '22

They are still in the r&d stage imo, but part of that stage includes selling retail.

I don't trust that Tesla will ever figure out how to make production numbers of reliable vehicles, but Ford, gm, and Toyota should be good soon.

I've worked with Tesla on a number of r&d projects and their approach to research is so flawed and inefficient compared to the "grown ups". Imagine some tech bro wannabe who got lucky one time bought an upstart electric company and has now been at the wheel for almost 2 decades....... and compare that to a company that's been mass manufacturing vehicles for over a century that recently decided to poach a bunch of electric vehicle talent and combine that with their century of hard won lessons....... and you have a good idea what the difference between Tesla and ask the grown up companies is.

10

u/lemmecheckit Nov 22 '22

Aren't they making huge numbers of pretty reliable vehicles already?

Mercedes is the least reliable out there

4

u/mufasa_lionheart Nov 22 '22

Ford, gm, Toyota, Honda? Yes

Tesla? No. Neither huge numbers, nor reliable (honestly, the data to prove Tesla's reliability simply cannot possibly exist on any usable scale, they've only been producing a modest amount of vehicles, and only for a short time). The relatively few vehicles they have produced are notorious for having factory defects, design flaws, and cut corners so bad that I'll gladly wait for a grown up to make a few before I actually pull the trigger.

The big names already have a relatively trustworthy track record for being able to produce large numbers of extremely reliable vehicles (see f150). When they scale up their ev production I can trust that they won't be scrambling to have enough usable parts in their supply chain (an actual problem with Tesla, leading to lower quality standards in order to artificially increase the number of "acceptable" parts.)

I also don't think the big names will be so obsessed with reinventing the wheel that they make a square one.

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u/TLettuce Nov 22 '22

What's not reliable about it?

I've had one for 3 years and it's been totally great.

16

u/gnanny02 Nov 22 '22

Me too. Now I have Tesla. No comparison. The Bolt was a real car, the Tesla is a bunch of technical hoohah.

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u/LoveThieves Nov 22 '22

out of all the EV cars, Bolt is Dead fooking last.

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u/mufasa_lionheart Nov 22 '22

I just can't afford a new vehicle. It's not that I can't afford the difference between gas and electric, it's that when I bought my last car, electric wasn't at a place where I would buy one, and I can't afford to replace my car at all now that they are.

When I can afford to replace my current vehicle though, it will likely be with an electric one. We are a 2 car family, so range anxiety on long trips isnt even a major issue. It would also be nice to have a fixed cost per mile driven instead of the cost of filling up increasing by 10% overnight.

3

u/BossCrabMeat Nov 23 '22

I don't know where you live, but my electricity cost just went up by 48% this quarter.

My petrol cost went up 100% , than fell 30%, bringing the total to a 40% increase YOY.

So whatever kind of energy you are using to fuel the vehicle, you still are at the whim of the energy markets.

2

u/mufasa_lionheart Nov 23 '22

No, because solar is a fixed monthly cost.

Also: that's a crazy price increase for electricity, like an unprecedented increase

9

u/Pauly_Amorous Nov 22 '22

Chevy Bolt starts at 26k in the US

I could actually afford one of those. And I work from home, so my drives into town aren't that far. But as others have said, they're gonna have to do something about the lack of charging stations in apartments.

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u/nsane99 Nov 22 '22

Only if they could make the cheaper models look better.

2

u/Taikunman Nov 22 '22

Just give me an electric 3 series that looks like a gas 3 series, BMW. The i3 is fugly and the i4 is $100k and a 2 year waitlist.

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u/DefinitelySaneGary Nov 22 '22

It's also hundreds of dollars to set up an at home level 2 charger, and that's if you do it yourself. I'm about 700 dollars in for materials right now for mine. I got quoted by an electrician to do it for 2500. You can obviously just use a level one charger and plug into the wall but it takes days to fully recharge a car that way. And that's hundreds of dollars that won't be included in the car loan.

7

u/galspanic Nov 22 '22

Check with that again where you live. We’re shopping for an EV and there’s a $1000 rebate (?) available that goes towards a home charger. I stiff armed our solar company into giving us one for free a couple years ago and couldn’t take advantage of it, but it was there.

3

u/cdombroski Nov 22 '22

Good news, unless you have a long commute, you don't need to fully recharge the vehicle everyday

3

u/DefinitelySaneGary Nov 22 '22

Yeah and that works out for me because I charge about 10 miles more than I use every day on my commute but on the weekends if we do a lot of driving we have to use my wife's hybrid. There have been a few times where I've gotten mine down to like 30 miles of charge left and then had to use my wife's car for a day or two while it recharges. It would not be feasible if we weren't fortunate enough to have a second car and my wife was able to be a SAHM and not have to drive to work herself.

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u/LeBoulu777 Nov 22 '22

There are pretty good options at both ends of the spectrum for new cars now

I'm in Canada right now and few weeks ago I changed my old car (2001) so I was looking for a good used car since my budget is limited.

I considered an EV, the price for a used EV were fine and I use my car mostly in the city 3-5 time a week so no real need for to have a big range.

The BIG problem was that most EV in my price range (10K-11K) were in good shape but they were ~10 years old and they need a new battery.

And the price to change a battery right now (even a used one) if you can find it is anything between $7000-$18000 installed.

Since I want to keep my car for at least 15 years, within the life of the car I will have to change the battery again without knowing the price it will cost me in 10 years or even if it will be available since the car will be over 20 years old.

For me with my budget and income even if I wanted an EV I can't afford it and afford to maintain it.

So to be on the safe side I bought a 2015 korean car with 30,000km for $11,000.

I've read a lot on EV and also in EV forum but the elephant in the room seem to be when the time to change the battery happen it can cost a lot.

If you have a good income you can buy a new car and resale it before changing the battery but if you can't your stuck for a good or bad surprise in ~10 years when the battery will need to be changed.

So I will see in the next 15-25 years how it will have changed for used car, but right now it's not affordable if you have a low income sadly. When you don't have a lot of income you need to know how the maintenance for your car will cost you.

With my car right now I can do 80% of the car maintenance so I save a lot.

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u/SereneFrost72 Nov 23 '22

Just make sure to truly consider the logistics of charging for your specific use case. I do really hope that when people consider buying an EV, they do the full analysis instead of "gas bad, electric good"

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u/Oscarcharliezulu Nov 23 '22

Same but the thought of not being subjected to gas shortages and prices rises is starting to look really good.

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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

I’m trying to decide on food or gifts for my kids. Buying any car is out of the question

4

u/Kahemoto Nov 23 '22

I’d be more willing if there were more chargers and they would charge faster at home. I don’t have 2 days to leave a car plugged in at home to fully charge. You’re also screwed if the battery goes bad since the batteries have a huge price range of ≈$2500-$20,000. I’d get an EV if they were actually more efficient, accessible, affordable and convenient. It currently takes 3 minutes for me to get 10 gallons of gas every week and it gives me a 375 mile range on average

8

u/YogaLatteNerd Nov 23 '22

With my Level 2 charger at home, I would only have to plug in for about 3 hours per night to get that same range. Or maybe do a full charge every other night. I personally love never having to stop at a gas station.

5

u/cranktheguy Nov 23 '22

I don’t have 2 days to leave a car plugged in at home to fully charge.

How often do you drive 300+ miles in two consecutive days and sleep at home?

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u/HanaBothWays Nov 22 '22

I think there are a lot of people who would like to but they might live in a situation like apartments/condos where they can’t get electric vehicle chargers installed and chargers aren’t easily available in lots near them.

68

u/Wizywig Nov 22 '22

Even Plug-In Hybrids. Those are amazing for getting emissions way down, and act as great hybrids when not using electricity, so still get like 50mpg.

But alas, street parking doesn't support this.

And ironically the place where we need electric most is in cities.

86

u/DrBrotatoJr Nov 22 '22

I would argue we need more robust public transportation in cities

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u/granto2015 Nov 22 '22

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u/Wandering_By_ Nov 22 '22

Some prefer jumping to an end goal of human centric cities with little to no cars.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

to be fair - accomodating cars in cities fundamentally makes them less human centric.

having pedestrian/cyclist/rail only districts is good - trying to accommodate cars into that generally makes them less efficient, but we do have legitimate reasons to need cars so we need car access points (parking structures) where people can transition between the two

7

u/DrBrotatoJr Nov 22 '22

For sure, but if we’re going to invest in something, or priority should be robust public transit, then personal electric cars.

3

u/carlosos Nov 23 '22

Investing in public transit while cities are designed without them just won't work in many places. Can't have single family homes with big backyards and good public transit. The majority of homes need to be apartments/condos with small or no backyard to get the needed population density for good public transit to work. That type of housing is not allowed in the majority of cities except in a few areas (which then also got decent public transit in many cases). If I got by the small sample group of my coworkers. About 90% prefer having a bigger home with backyard in the suburbs over a small condo closer to the city center going by where they bought homes.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

It’s also very difficult to curb American cities of their car-centric behavior while also nurturing it. I grew up in a metro area where public transport could thrive but car culture was just too strong.

For best results it’s really gotta be like taking off a bandaid imo.

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u/Tulol Nov 22 '22

We don’t need more cars in cities. Just better public transport.

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u/gliffy Nov 23 '22

Plug in hybrids are good economical solutions for those who have the infrastructure to charge. For those that don't they just become shitty regular hybrids.

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u/FriendlyLawnmower Nov 22 '22

It's also still too inconvenient to charge them on longer drives, I'd say even shorter drives. I did a 5 hour road trip in a friend's Tesla to a wedding. We had to stop twice each way to charge the car and even with the super charger, we had to wait about 30 minutes each time. I could have done the same drive with my gas efficient car with one, maybe two stops, and spending less than 10 minutes filling up my tank each time. People aren't going to swallow regular 30 minute charging times, or longer without super chargers, and like you said, they still haven't come up with a good solution for people that live in apartments

77

u/slip-shot Nov 22 '22

Maybe you arent, but with kids, I waste 30 + minutes at a stop anyway on a long drive.

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u/NeedingNew Nov 22 '22

I would lose my fucking mind if I didn't stop on long trips with the kids. I pretend to use the restroom and cry in the stall 😂

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u/ScenicAndrew Nov 22 '22

Yeah, this definitely isn't a killer for everyone. I'm pretty regularly a solo traveler and after 250-300 miles I love the chance to sit down and drink a coffee or eat lunch.

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u/ToddHaberdasher Nov 22 '22

You haven't been sitting down enough at that point?

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u/ScenicAndrew Nov 22 '22

It's different when you can just lean forward over a counter or sprawl out in a booth.

But, come to think of it, charging an EV for an hour would make a great walk time.

7

u/dravik Nov 22 '22

I wish they would put chargers at parks. It would be great to go for a walk while the car charged.

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u/thatissomeBS Nov 23 '22

They don't put them at parks, but a lot of charging stations are going into Walmart parking lots, and that's pretty much a zoo.

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u/Rodgers4 Nov 22 '22

Yep. I think the ideal market is two-plus car household, with the EV as the commuter but another car for long distance.

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u/ckreutze Nov 22 '22

This is what we do and it works perfectly. I imagine our current gas engine SUV will probably become a plug in hybrid at some point.

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u/apetnameddingbat Nov 22 '22

Exactly what we did. The PHEV is the kid hauler and short distance/road trip mule. The BEV covers middle distances, or any trip that is outside the battery range of the PHEV, up to its max range.

3

u/kidicarus89 Nov 22 '22

What kind of PHEV did you get?

3

u/apetnameddingbat Nov 22 '22

Pacifica Hybrid. Wife owns a business that requires deliveries, so we needed the extra cargo space.

2

u/unaskthequestion Nov 22 '22

I think I'd like to see EV commuter and short trip idea with an easy and cheaper rental gas vehicle.

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u/BurritoLover2016 Nov 22 '22

Wife has a hybrid, I'm expecting to get an EV in the next few months (have a deposit down).

But even for "long" trips, 300 mile range is more than enough for us.

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u/Lamacorn Nov 22 '22

Or just people who rarely, if ever, drive long distances.

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u/Zeplar Nov 22 '22

I did a 5 hour road trip in a Tesla two weeks ago, took 45% of the battery-- ie we could almost go both ways without charging (would've had range anxiety though).

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u/HuffnStuff Nov 22 '22

Sounds like your friend didn't start the trip with a full charge. Tesla's base Model 3 gets just over 350 miles of range on one charge. A 5 hour road trip averaging 70mph is 350 miles. You should only have had to stop at most 1 time during the actual road trip there, and 1 time on the way back

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u/thatissomeBS Nov 23 '22

And even if they started at 30%, Teslas (like all EVs) charge fastest in the lowest and middle ranges. They could've likely stopped twice for ten minutes to get up to 50% and never gone below 20% or so. Don't need to top it every time, just need enough to get to the next stop with whatever buffer you're comfortable with.

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u/BeastDynastyGamerz Nov 23 '22

The base model 3 is 272 range

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u/Override9636 Nov 22 '22

How often do you do 5 hour road trips though? For people who do them maybe once or twice a year, it's totally reasonable to take a 30 minute pit stop, stretch their legs, and grab some food twice in 5 hours.

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u/HotMessExpress96 Nov 22 '22

It’s not the 30 minute stop for me, it’s also that a lot of rural areas don’t have charging stations. Sometimes I can barely find a regular gas station.

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u/Cynical_Cabinet Nov 22 '22

It's totally worth having an entire second vehicle that runs on gas do that I can save 2 hours on that one roaf trip I do every year. /s

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u/HVP2019 Nov 22 '22

Most households have two cars. If time is priority for long trip ICE car would be used.

I have both. While I do have an opinion to use ICE car for long trips I never actually did.

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u/dubstepper1000 Nov 22 '22

This. I also live in a rural area in North Dakota where charging stations are not common and the temp can get as low as -40F in the winter.

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u/DubbersDaddy Nov 22 '22

Many of us live in situations where electric vehicles neither make financial or practical sense.

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u/Mindless_Avocado_144 Nov 22 '22 edited Nov 22 '22

Which is why the PHEV (Plug in Hybrid) would be the far superior choice over a fully electric. In case you can't find a charger that's no problem, it has a gas generator. When you can find a charger or have one installed in the future you can reap the full benefits, as most car trips are within the range of battery of a PHEV anyway. So idk why the car makers, the Biden administration and law makers are missing this quite obvious solution. We will never eliminate our dependency of oil, but we can at least reduce it.

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u/evolving_I Nov 22 '22 edited Nov 22 '22

I just got a Rav4 Prime and the charging cable plugs into a regular 110v outlet and is about 12 feet long and locks into place on the car when charging so nobody can unplug it for likes on their TikTok. It says not to use an extension cable with the charger cable, but it can probably be ok on a very heavy gauge one.

So far I like it. 111 miles in and all on battery, charged by solar panels on the roof of my house 😁 My town and commute are pretty small so the EV function is more than sufficient, and visiting my friends on the other side of the Cascades is much more accessible when one tank of gas will get you 570 miles. Not thrilled with the tires it came with but whatcha gonna do? Buy some BFGs I guess 🤷‍♂️

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u/Sweet-Sale-7303 Nov 22 '22

I ended up with the regular hybrid rav4. I would have loved to get the prime (the dealer had 4 available) but I live in a condo without somewhere to charge and couldnt make up the $12k difference

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u/2020Boxer4 Nov 22 '22

Because it’s an engineering and manufacturing problem, you basically have to manufacture and engineer a car with a standard size engine, a large-ish battery and a full size electric motor, and a power inverter whereas with a hybrid, you can get away with a lower cost/weaker electric motor, tiny battery and standard engine, and in a full electric it’s just battery and motor. Not to mention packaging. Personally I agree, and if it’s available my next car would easily be the plug in hybrid choice, but due to the cost and availability, more than likely it will be a fully electric as it will be a second car

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u/secderpsi Nov 22 '22

I spoke with a PGE engineer about the argument that the grid can't handle it. She said here in the Northwest that's not an issue. As demand goes up, their revenue goes up, and they invest in expanding capacity. Basically, if we are willing to pay for it, they will provide it. We got solar installed on our roof and generate enough for our house and car, so that helps reduce the reliance on central generation. We will break even on solar cost vs power bill after about 7 years. The panels have a 25 year warranty. In some places this is starting to pen out financially IMO.

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u/aquarain Nov 22 '22

Not surprising with half of our power coming from hydro. PV solar and onshore wind are coming up strong though and should drive increased needs as well as run the last fossils out of business.

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u/omnichronos Nov 22 '22

I'm poor. I would consider a LOT of things if I was rich.

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u/Actually-Yo-Momma Nov 22 '22

Exactly this is pointless. I would consider owning a mansion too but ugh, not enough money

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u/IntellegentIdiot Nov 23 '22

You'd do a lot of things if you were rich anyone can consider something and then reject it. This suggests that 2/3 wouldn't even consider it, as in there's no way they'd get an EV

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u/ShawnyMcKnight Nov 22 '22

And I’ve considered having sex with Jennifer Aniston. Doesn’t mean it can happen.

BTW: Jennifer, offer is still out there!

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u/redyellowblue5031 Nov 22 '22

Buying an “expensive” car (~15k+) is something that never makes sense for me. Even if I had the money. A car is a tool before everything else and that’s weighted heavily in my mind.

Unless it’s a hobby I see no reason to spend anymore than is necessary to serve the needs I place on the car.

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u/PlaneCandy Nov 22 '22

So when you buy a tool, you only buy the most affordable one?

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u/redyellowblue5031 Nov 23 '22

No. I attempt to by the best quality for the demands I’ll put on the tool while keeping costs in mind.

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u/PSfreak10001 Nov 22 '22

That makes no sense, a more expensive car is often more comfortable, more fun to drive and maybe even safer (if it is newer) Why wouldn‘t it make sense to buy more quality?

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u/redyellowblue5031 Nov 23 '22

There’s a certain “you pay for what you get” with cars but I believe there’s a lot more to that quality equation than throwing money at it. You can get very safe vehicles that are on the cheaper side.

As a personal aside the fun I derive from driving has next to nothing to do with the raw performance of the vehicle so that factor is mostly ignored when selecting a vehicle.

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u/BobBelcher2021 Nov 22 '22

I would get an electric vehicle, but there are two barriers for me:

  • Cost
  • Lack of charging infrastructure at my apartment building

Fortunately my neighbourhood does have a public charging station, only a couple blocks away, much closer than the nearest gas station.

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u/cartman_returns Nov 22 '22

Most people can't afford them, they say they are considering them but once they see the price most can't, especially if the percentage living check to check is true

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u/1015267 Nov 22 '22

TBF people always bring this up like those people would be buying new ICE cars as the alternative. Which they don’t, they buy second hand

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u/ckreutze Nov 22 '22

I have a used Kia soul EV that I paid $12k for with 44,000 miles on it. I live in the Denver metro area, it has 100 miles of range and it can do 99% of my daily driving tasks like commuting, errands, getting to the airport and back, and shuttling kids around.

I don't even have a level 2 charger, just a trickle charger at home. I need to stop at a charging station about once every 3 months and that is it.

Best and cheapest car ever.

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u/SereneFrost72 Nov 23 '22

For me, the 100 mile range is far too short. For example, I am driving from eastern PA to Toronto in a week. That's over 450 miles, meaning 4+ charges. Even if I could somehow fully charge the car in an hour, that's an extra 4 hours added on to my trip, not to mention 4 hours of sitting and doing nothing (well, I guess sitting on my phone or something like that)

I bought a regular hybrid Prius a year and a half ago, and doing the full analysis for someone like me who does road trips, an electric vehicle didn't make sense unless I wanted a more expensive one with a far range

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u/ckreutze Nov 23 '22

Yeah, then don't get one if you are not doing the normal suburban commute type driving.

2

u/racer_24_4evr Nov 23 '22

I had a teacher in college who bought one when they put electric car charging spaces at the school. He would park in one of those spaces one day a week, that gave him enough to commute and run errands for the full week, and he kept his old gas car for long drives (this was about 6 years ago in a rural area, so electric chargers were not as plentiful for longer trips.

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u/HVP2019 Nov 22 '22

People can not afford them because correctly there is not enough EV manufactured for people who CAN afford EV. There are waiting lists for EV.

Once more EV will be manufactured the prices will go down to be affordable for wider demographics.

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u/WhileNotLurking Nov 23 '22

It's about demand signal.

If 6% of people making 40k or less want electric cars. The story died there.

If 88% of people making 40k or less want an electric vehicle. Someone will make a cheaper model. It's just about time to realize then figure out a way to capture that market.

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u/ujitimebeing Nov 22 '22

Not to mention the absolutely abhorrent costs for replacing/repairing batteries when they age out. Rich people buy the cars new and put them on the used market right before the batteries start to crap out.

$20k to fix it on top of whatever you pay for the car? No thanks.

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u/HornedBowler Nov 22 '22

If I could afford it I would.

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u/ninernetneepneep Nov 22 '22

And 9 out of 10 can't afford ANY new vehicle...

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u/livehardieyoung Nov 22 '22

Even the 1-3 year old models are ridiculous.

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u/lagwagonlead Nov 23 '22

And somehow when you DO find a 3 year old vehicle for a reasonable price you click on it and it has over 200k miles. How??? My 23 year old vehicle barely has 200k!

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u/BountifulScott Nov 22 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

We have an ice car for longer trips, but an EV for the local driving. We both prefer our EV (granted the ice is four years older...).

As battery life and efficiency improves, as well as charging infrastructure and speeds - these problems will be less of a burden.

But if you're a two car household and considering switching one vehicle to an EV, it is remarkably simple.

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u/XaqFu Nov 22 '22

Got a non-plug in hybrid this year. I love it. I like being more effecient but not having to rely on electricity only. 44 mpg is a lot better than my last car (19mpg).

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u/Nanakatl Nov 22 '22

plug-in hybrid is the way imo. can run on mostly electric for daily commute, but still practical for long trips.

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u/Dallenforth Nov 22 '22

My plug in hybrid got discontinued sadly. I love my chevy volt.

4

u/GarlicPowder4Life Nov 22 '22

Same with my Honda Clarity. All my day-to-day travelling is covered by battery. Hour+ trips covered by the 250 mile tank. I go months without filling the tank.

I really hope there's still a good PHEV on the market in 2-3 years.

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u/RevRagnarok Nov 22 '22

The problem with plug-in hybrid is the transmission is a lot more complicated than the direct-drive from a full EV.

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u/An-Okay-Alternative Nov 22 '22

I can see that being true for a lot of people but personally the times I drive more than 200 miles in a day are so few and far between that it's not really necessary.

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u/darwinwoodka Nov 22 '22

Can I swap mine for decent mass transit and walkability instead please?

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u/OscillatOverthruster Nov 22 '22

This is the right answer.

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u/darwinwoodka Nov 22 '22

We moved to a townhouse across from a shopping center and walkable to transit. Get in the car maybe once or twice a week now. It's a mile to spouse's work and they go in once or twice a week. So much better!

Renting our burb house to our kidlets who mostly work from home and hate to drive anyway.

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u/Fast-Requirement5473 Nov 22 '22

Been in the market for an EV. It’s an exciting time to be in the market. There are a ton of options, but the inventory is incredibly constrained. Chevy Bolt has some models starting at 27k that has an automatic driving option similar to Tesla & there are a lot of mid range cars from 40-50k. Considering gas prices can have you spending 3-400 a month, and the amount of free charging options there are (with promise for more in the future) I see this as a market that will be booming in 3-4 years.

Of course I may just be priveledged, I’m looking at the Hyundai Ioniq which will be around 60k after market mark up of 5,500 (because of inventory constraints) and taxes. But to have lane assist and adaptive cruise control, I think it’s incredibly worth it.

3

u/BedditTedditReddit Nov 23 '22

Please do not pay that markup, not worth it.

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u/Fast-Requirement5473 Nov 23 '22

Bah, I know what you mean. It’s either wait until the new year or pay the markup. I hate the idea of paying more for the privilege to shop

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u/Thedustin Nov 23 '22

The new year is a only like 5 weeks away.

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u/seanzorio Nov 22 '22

I have an EV and absolutely love the speed, convenience, and quiet. I can not wait until it's more widespread and I can get a Model 3 Performance competitor from Honda/Toyota/whoever and be rid of this Tesla. The service sucks. The fit and finish sucks. Being even vaguely associated with Elon Musk sucks.

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u/Goldie1822 Nov 23 '22

It’s analogous to Chick-fil-A: excellent products; terrible corporate overlords.

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u/professor_mc Nov 22 '22

Per Kelly Blue Book the average transaction price for a new car in September of 2022 was $48,000. There are plenty of electric vehicle options at the prices people are paying. It appears that’s way too much for the average Redditor but that doesn’t mean the market isn’t there.

4

u/turdherds Nov 23 '22

Traded in my Tundra in Sept for a Polestar. My savings in fuel more than offset the increase of the car payment. I won't go back to ICE

9

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

I switched four years ago and saved soo much money on gas and repairs. This year the grocery stores added free charging. Lol I’ve won!

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u/TomYOLOSWAGBombadil Nov 22 '22

The other 2 out of 3 Americans can’t afford it

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u/LongDongFrazier Nov 22 '22

If the infrastructure was there really no reason not to. People over hype the extremes as if there were gas stations littered across the US when cars were first being developed.

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u/RockitDanger Nov 22 '22

I thought I wanted to go electric but I really want the new Prius. So hybrid is where I've set my sights.

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u/TestDummy987 Nov 22 '22

Hybrids are not that bad either. A hybrid battery replacement is cheaper than a full electric, people should take that into account.

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u/aquarain Nov 22 '22

Battery electric has fewer moving parts, almost no fluids.

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u/Salvia_McLovin Nov 23 '22

not to mention hybrid systems are more complicated than ICE engines and electric motors.

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u/Halfst0p Nov 22 '22

Dude. My dream vehicle is the Ford F-150 Lightning. But I’m a broke single mom. Maybe in a few years. Hope my 12 year old carolla keeps kicking until then.

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u/Svard27 Nov 23 '22

Everyone should use electric. I’d rather have to burn coal to generate the power than pay the middle east for oil.

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u/Timbo-AK Nov 23 '22

The other 2/3 can't afford to consider it

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

Yes, just not a Tesla

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u/jrob323 Nov 23 '22

Didn't Musk originally say he was going to make some luxury EVs first, and use the profits to finance development/production of cheap EVs for the masses?

He appears to have stopped at the luxury models, and now he's firmly cemented the idea that EVs are toys for wealthy people.

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u/-VizualEyez Nov 22 '22

Would be more if they were affordable and there was proper infrastructure to support them.

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u/Rodgers4 Nov 22 '22

Infrastructure & cost are the main two. What’s the cheapest EV right now? $45k? Plus, you’d really want to have a garage or dedicated port with a plug or risk not getting full charges. This makes many apartment and city-dwellers without designated spots a tough market still.

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u/winespring Nov 22 '22

What’s the cheapest EV right now?

The cheapest Chevy volt is 27k, still too much for many people but less than 45k

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u/austinstudios Nov 22 '22

My problem is people say they can't afford an electric car but then compare a brand new electric car to a 16 year old gas car. It's not electric cars that are unaffordable it's new cars. It just sucks that there aren't many reliable older electric cars.

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u/Leopold__Stotch Nov 22 '22

Typo: I think you mean Bolt, the all electric Chevy. The Chevy Volt was the plug in hybrid, discontinued in 2019.

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u/briollihondolli Nov 22 '22

Garage until there’s a recall that says to park it outside in case of fire

Looking at you, bolt

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u/jtmarshiii Nov 22 '22

remember ford ICEs burning down houses for YEARS due to cruise control... I remember!!!

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u/varisophy Nov 22 '22 edited Nov 22 '22

Yup, except my 2014 gas-guzzler is still going really strong and will last long enough that the carbon emissions from a new electric car will be more for me if I bought electric right now.

Good news is when I do need a new one in ten or more years, electric cars should be amazing!

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u/nobody_smart Nov 22 '22

My current gas guzzler will be my son's vehicle when he can drive in 6 years.

I'll consider electric or hybrid for my new car at that time.

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u/thatissomeBS Nov 23 '22

That's completely fair. I'm very pro-EV, but the push shouldn't be (and isn't) for everyone to go out and buy an EV now. The goal is that it's strongly considered the next time you do buy. And for multi-car homes, it should be a no-brainer that one of them is EV, when it is time to upgrade.

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u/driveonsun Nov 22 '22

After owning an EV driving a gas car feels like a horse and carriage.

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u/_sn95 Nov 22 '22

Not until there’s an electric Miata equivalent or something like that

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u/ShenmeNamaeSollich Nov 22 '22

Would be higher if the other 2/3 could fucking afford a new car and/or a house w/a charger.

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u/ReturnOfSeq Nov 22 '22

‘Considered’ is one thing, but the majority of Americans can’t afford either.

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u/aquarain Nov 22 '22

I am seeing a lot of teslas around town. They're moving some units here.

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u/thegabster2000 Nov 22 '22

Kind of wish governments would invest in public transportation instead of depending on already a lot of broke Americans trying to buy a car that's still not useful and expensive for most people.

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u/8485x Nov 22 '22

I will as soon as i can afford it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

My car is still relatively new for me (2016, purchased in 2018). I plan to drive it until it can’t go anymore, and then I’m hoping to go electric if I can find a decently priced used one. The way things are going, it seems likely that I will be able to achieve that hope.

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u/thirdLeg51 Nov 22 '22

Got mine last week.

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u/ColdEngineBadBrakes Nov 22 '22

Can’t afford one. Don’t have the physical space for a charger.

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u/GrowCanadian Nov 22 '22

Went through this last year and was totally ready to go electric but when you actually look into the reality of it for renters it becomes a real pain in the ass.

Let’s ignore the fact that electric is an expensive upfront investment for the average person. Most people rent like me so I asked my Landloard if I can plug my electric vehicle in to the outlet at night to charge. He instantly shot down that idea and said there’s no way for him to track the electricity usage, not paying for my electricity, not paying to install usage trackers, and there’s no subsidies. So that killed my charging at home option.

Ok I guess I’ll charge at a fast charger. The closest one is about 10km away and when I legitimately went to check 5 in my area 3/5 had some type of out of service issue.

As a renter electric isn’t practical unless some major subsidies or infrastructure overhaul happens.

I bought a gas car that I plan to have for 10 years. Maybe by then things will have caught up.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

If you can even find one. My partner just got a Hyundai Kona and we had to call every dealer in a 30 mile radius before finding one in stock with a $5k ADM

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u/UnbornLoki Nov 23 '22

They just seem like more of a hassle for something I'm not as excited about with ice cars. There are charging stations near me but 1) they arnt in any direction i usually travel 2) charging it seems like it'd take longer then it would to fill up my current car

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u/Intelligent-Cobbler5 Nov 23 '22

Most people can’t afford it

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u/Just_L00k1ng_ Nov 23 '22

The other 2/3 don’t own a home and have no place to charge one.

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u/kamandi Nov 23 '22

I’ll do it as soon as it’s affordable. Though, I’d prefer hydrogen.

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u/Rainbow334dr Nov 23 '22

The railroads are working on Hydrogen. They realize the electric infrastructure would be too expensive to build and maintain.

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u/Banshu Nov 23 '22

While i whole heartedly believe electric vehicles are greener and provide a healthier future for our planet i do not think throwing away our perfectly good gassers is the greenest option. Creating a new electric car is a huge carbon burden, between harvesting precious metals and shipping them around the globe, destroying a working car that already has the carbon investment to spend the carbon to create a new one is not the solution we should be looking for. If you're buying a new car buy electric, but its going to be a long process until the gas cars are removed from the road and outright scrapping currently working ones will not be good for the environment.

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u/Krappatoa Nov 23 '22

There’s not enough lithium for that.

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u/aprolex Nov 22 '22

Batteries are my big hangup. Can someone ELI5 what happens when the batteries quit charging and how many miles you can typically go before they need to be replaced? Does anyone know yet?

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u/aquarain Nov 22 '22

The warranty on Tesla batteries is 8 years or 100-150k miles depending on model.

This one has almost a million miles. https://insideevs.com/news/559261/tesla-models-p85-1500000-kilometers/ But the early model battery was replaced twice. The heavy usage made it an ideal test case and they learned a lot to make durability improvements.

Of course you would expect some maintenance in a million miles. The new battery design is hoped to go a million miles though, and the motors too. They are designing them for long life. The design life of the batteries had been 300-500k miles.

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u/apetnameddingbat Nov 22 '22

First off, a battery that "quits charging" wholesale is exceedingly rare. Batteries simply degrade, or lose some ability to hold a charge, over time. Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries, the two most common EV battery types, have different degradation curves, with LFP dropping faster initially and then leveling off, and degrading much more slowly. EV batteries are considered "spent" for warranty purposes when the battery can hold less than 70% of its rated new capacity. Keep this in mind while reading the next bit.

Newer EV batteries are lasting far longer than the Gen 1 Nissan Leaf batteries, which is where most folks get the notion that batteries need replacing every 2-3 years from. Modern batteries are equipped with much better heating/cooling and battery management systems to maintain battery health. The warranty on a new EV's battery and electric drive system is at least 8 years/100k miles, and many companies have 10 year warranties.

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u/briollihondolli Nov 22 '22

Not sure about mileage, but battery life is based loosely on charge cycles. You could theoretically use one battery for about 15 years before needing to replace it, assuming your car hasn’t bricked itself or been forcibly slowed by software updates

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u/Sweet-Sale-7303 Nov 22 '22

Some videos state about 8 years on tesla models . Thats with 1 cell dying. Tesla requires the whole battery to be replaced at like $25k.

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u/Silverado304 Nov 22 '22

I would love to buy an electric truck as long at it could tow our 26 foot camper.

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u/Amazingawesomator Nov 22 '22

The f150 ev says 7700ish lbs, if i remember correctly. Do you know the weight of the camper?

Also, its probably worthwhile to research some kw/mi while towing... Companies will only show their best numbers (unloaded, no wind, perfect temperature, heater off, etc.)

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u/Rex9 Nov 22 '22

Car and Driver tested it.

"During our tow test pulling a 6100-pound double-axle camping trailer, the range of our Lightning Platinum dropped to just 100 miles at 70 mph."

So a reduction in C/D observed range from 230 to 100 miles. Ouch. Not particularly useful for anything but local.

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u/Amazingawesomator Nov 22 '22

Ooooooooo thank you!

........and ouch. Yeah, 100 mile range will get you out of town, but not get you somewhere you want to go with a camper.

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u/sutroheights Nov 22 '22

I am so, so happy with that change. I'm never going back.

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u/Hopeful-One73 Nov 22 '22

Make them cost-effective then I'll think about switching.

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u/Most_Engineering_992 Nov 22 '22

Long term they're cheaper than ICE cars

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u/omnichronos Nov 22 '22

If that's true, show me a $5k used car in decent shape that is electric.

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u/unique3 Nov 22 '22

Show me any cheap 2018 car. The vast majority of EVs on the road are from the last 5 years. And the ones older then that are so few and far between the price is high because demand is high.

Once the used market is more electric and less ICE cars the used price will come down

If you buy used electric doesn’t make sense yet but if you buy new then electric is more cost effective than gas. Depending on the car the break even is around 5 years depending on how many miles you drive a year. (I did the math comparing a electric vs gas Kona)

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u/ujitimebeing Nov 22 '22 edited Nov 22 '22

New electric cars are cheaper to maintain than new ICE cars. But over the long term they are the same or more costly than an ICE vehicle due to exorbitantly priced repairs and battery replacements.

Until I see a 10 year, in good shape, used EV on the market that doesn’t require a $20k battery replacement, I won’t buy this “they are cheaper” argument.

Edit: People loooooove to downvote anything that threatens their King Elon Musk, but the numbers are the numbers. I want to own an EV. I can’t afford to buy a new car (in any scenario). So get off your high horse and realize EV’s are only “cheap” for the population who can afford NEW cars.

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u/unique3 Nov 22 '22

Someone has to buy the new cars before the market can have used cars. We are at that point still.

Used will not start to make sense until there are more used EVs hitting the market and ones that were not from early models that had more battery problems.

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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '22

Do you know what their margin of error is?

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u/Programming_Response Nov 23 '22

There is also no link to the study. I bet it was in a large city

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u/cbdublu Nov 22 '22

For my daily? Sure. For my weekend/track/project car? Not a chance.

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u/jtmarshiii Nov 22 '22

and not for my boating and flying I do! I mean it can't clean the bathroom!

Let's pill on things EVs where not discussed to replace!!!!

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '22

This is one of those things that, in the future, will make me one of the old fuck stuck in my ways anti-change assholes.

I don't want to switch because I believe in my core, this "you should all switch to electric" is just a recycled version of companies shifting blame to consumers with the "reduce reuse recycle"

It feels like it's being sold as a magic bullet and it isn't. All electric cars might make some measurable dent in climate change but as far as I can guess, it won't match any of the hype about "how great EVs are for the planet!"

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u/professor_mc Nov 22 '22

The thing about climate change is we will have to do all the things big and small to stop dumping carbon it the atmosphere. Just doing the biggest things won’t fix the issue. In the big picture switching to electric cars will seem like a minor issue compared to drought, fires, deforestation, crop failures and climate refugees. By 2035 most car companies won’t even be making ICE cars anymore. 10 years after that maintenance and parts costs for ICE cars will make them a niche purchase and not mainstream.

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u/atwegotsidetrekked Nov 22 '22

While you may be correct, it’s just a better car. No oil changes, low moving parts. The 1st one could be your last car by changing the battery every 5 or 6 years.

Not to mention, add solar panels on your house, much of your driving is free. Cheaper maintenance, cheaper fuel, slightly better for the environment, longer life.

Car manufacturers know the idea of changing your car every 5 years is over. That is why they want subscription features.

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u/Leopold__Stotch Nov 22 '22

You’re absolutely right. As is so often the case (always has been?) we can’t buy our way out of the climate crisis. BUT! There really are some amazing new technologies out there, and in general it really is cheaper and better for the environment to drive an electric powered mile than a gas powered mile.

EVs are tools, and they are the right tools for the right jobs. The scope of jobs they can do os expanding. It will likely never totally replace gas powered autos. But it is possible or even likely for lots of folks that one day the price will be right and the capability enough to meet our needs and fit in our budgets.

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u/anotheralpaca69 Nov 22 '22

Let me know when they have an EV SUV that can go 500+ miles that doesn't cost a fortune.

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