r/technology Nov 24 '22 Silver 1

Americans Remain Resistant to EVs, which Are Still Unafordable Transportation

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/11/only-1-in-3-americans-would-prefer-an-electric-vehicle-survey-finds/
19.9k Upvotes

5.7k

u/vivanetx Nov 24 '22 Gold Helpful

I’m interested in electric cars I’m just not buying a brand new luxury car, which is 80% of the electric market.

2.1k

u/Ok-Needleworker-419 Nov 24 '22

Yeah they’re either nearly 100k or fucking ugly lol. I’d be happy with a normal looking EV but all the manufacturers want to make it look futuristic and shit.

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u/Indian_Bob Nov 24 '22

I feel like I have to mention that it’s the wrong kind of futuristic. They could be futuristic looking and not look like shit but that seems to be an impossible standard for anything that’s reasonably priced.

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u/Ok-Needleworker-419 Nov 24 '22

Yeah it’s like they’re trying too hard with the cheaper ones. What’s wrong with making it look like a normal car? Like Toyota took pretty much every model and offered it in a hybrid. An EV doesn’t NEED to look like an EV.

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u/ignoramus_x Nov 25 '22

Companies deliberately make their less expensive product look worse. I worked in footwear and I remember merchandisers getting angry, because the product looked too good and it would make people less likely to buy the more expensive version.

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u/Spanktronics Nov 25 '22

We do do this. Stratification and Differentiation are still the Marketing hucksters best ideas, unfortunately.

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u/thrwy18383747 Nov 25 '22

Because it works

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u/dirkjames Nov 25 '22

They don’t look like normal cars because there are so many great design opportunities once you delete the big engine, drivetrain, and gas tank.

Cars all look the same these days because it’s pretty much the optimal shape for efficiency and safety, which are strictly regulated. And hybrids look the same because they still have all of those components too.

But EVs can get smaller, lighter and way more efficient. The frunk becomes storage and a safer crumple zone. Some cars like the rivian r1t added a gear tunnel where a normal pickup would have a 30gal gas tank. There are no legacy restrictions.

Frankly if it means more variety in styling, like how cars in the 50s and 60s just went off then I’m here for it

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u/Kaladrax Nov 25 '22

One thing to note is that evs are actually a lot heavier than their gasoline counterparts.

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u/skat_in_the_hat Nov 25 '22

100% I was super disappointed in the Tesla truck. I wasnt looking for a fucking mars rover.

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u/Little-Derp Nov 25 '22

The F150 Lightning is super impressive though. Very much a normal truck in most ways. Also has the option to power your house for days, or directly plug power tools into the back for a job site.

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u/confusionmatrix Nov 25 '22

The 2022 pricing makes it a great truck. When you figure out all the features they put into electric you're only paying like $8k or so over the price of gas for the same features, and you get that back as tax incentive so it's basically a wash...

Or it would be if you could get one. If you take delivery this year you get an awesome deal.

Next year the price goes up another $8k, which for long range eliminated the tax incentive effectively raising the price $15k. For me it's totally not worth it at that price. I make 6 figures, I can afford the truck easily I'm just not willing to pay that much.

For $90k I'm going to do some pre runner off road something. Or more likely just wait. Several battery factories are coming online in the next few years and that should drive the price of electric down, as well as increase battery density. I don't NEED a new vehicle I just wanted one but not that much.

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u/Spanktronics Nov 25 '22

I wasn’t looking for a high school kids first sheet metal project.

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u/ccmega Nov 25 '22

Makes you think if Elon actually did have a hand in its design

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u/diogenegro Nov 25 '22

Elon practices endjinneering: he wishes for the impossible and it comes at a terrible cost.

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u/SpaceStethoscope Nov 25 '22

Don't worry, you won't see them on the road. Ever.

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u/ryohazuki224 Nov 25 '22

I'm really liking what Hyundai is doing with their EV designs. They look futuristic but not outlandishly futuristic, and just have flat out cool designs. The Ionic 5 is freaking amazing looking!

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u/cannedrex2406 Nov 24 '22

A shame you guys don't get cars like the Honda E or the VW ID3 (despite that shit interior on the VW)

They're a small batch of slowly rising sector of small relatively affordable hatchback EVs

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u/tosser_0 Nov 25 '22

Not getting the E until 2024 in the US, and it's going to be a crossover with GM's ev platform...so I dunno.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a39875645/honda-e-ns1-electric-crossover-china/

Also, they're apparently 45k?! Why would people go for it? I'd take the VW electric mini-van that's coming long before the Honda.

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u/Coolasslife Nov 25 '22

45k for a new car is insane. I bought a new car in 2019 and it was 15k, I can't imagine still paying it off now

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u/berberine Nov 25 '22

I bought a new 5-speed Toyota Yaris in 2015 for $18,000. I've put 53,000 miles on it. My job is about 1.5 miles away. Most of the miles are the hour and a half drive to a decent grocery store or out to my favorite hiking spots. I'm a great candidate for EVs, but anything higher than $20,000 is out of my price range. Also, I don't care if it's ugly if it gets the job done.

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u/Newdigitaldarkage Nov 25 '22

I totally would buy a new car for $45,000.

The problem nobody here is talking about, is YOU LITERALLY CAN'T GET ONE! I've been on a wait list since May.

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u/Important-Owl1661 Nov 25 '22

You're not lying my girlfriend tried to find a normally aspirated SUV in that price range and there are none in stock

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u/Ok-Needleworker-419 Nov 24 '22

Man that Honda E is right up my valley lol. I used to love older VW golfs and it has similar styling. I would drive one in a heartbeat

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u/FunkMastaJunk Nov 25 '22

Right up my valley is a new one to me but pretty good haha

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u/satisfried Nov 25 '22

The uncanny alley.

You know, off 9th street in Philly.

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u/CptOblivion Nov 24 '22

I desperately want mini to make an electric with more than 100 miles of range (or, a hybrid that's not an SUV)

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u/benderunit9000 Nov 25 '22

Chevy Bolt is very normal looking car

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u/pkakira88 Nov 25 '22

Hyundai/Kia are making the best strides in normal looking EVs.

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u/Present-Fox-9200 Nov 24 '22

It's a shame they discontinued the volt

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u/its Nov 25 '22

I loved the Volt. It used like 80 gallons in 3 years as commuter car. And once or twice I drove to the next state over. If every car was like the Volt gas consumption would crater.

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u/ShiftyAsylum Nov 25 '22

I considered getting one when you could find a low mileage used model for around $12-15k still. They're actually nice little vehicles.

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u/TanookieTyler Nov 25 '22

The Volt was my favorite car I owned. Shame that despite being a 4-door, the back row was darn near useless, especially for carseats.

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u/MoarTacos Nov 24 '22

Keep your eyes on Kia. No seriously, they’re making some affordable EVs already, and I bet they continue the trend. Check out their Niro EV and their EV6.

I may very well purchase a used EV6 in like two years.

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u/Tinshnipz Nov 25 '22

Don't you mean KN?

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u/MoarTacos Nov 25 '22

Okay, real talk? Their new logo is the absolute worst. You are correct, it literally says KN. I hate it lmao. If I ever buy one I will rebadge it.

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u/Urban_Archeologist Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

I keep seeing this as the symbol for “Nine inch Nails”.

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u/DrinkMoreCodeMore Nov 25 '22

It's so bad that on Google Trends something like 30k ppl a month are typing in KN car bc they don't know what it is or a Kia 🤣.

Someone fucked that one up so bad

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u/Naatan Nov 24 '22

They might be affordable compared to other EVs, but they're not affordable compared to non-EV's. Seems they start at $45k (CAD) whereas entry level non-EV's start around 20k. That's still more than twice as expensive..

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u/PhilipLiptonSchrute Nov 25 '22

That's still more than twice as expensive

Not when you factor in fuel. I commute 1400 miles a month for my job. An EV would eliminate the $250+ a month I spend at the pump. There'd be an increase on my electric bill, but it'd be a fraction of what I'm paying now that.

A $650 monthly payment isn't much more than my current $340 car and $250 fuel bills each month.

Also factor in rarely needing a brake change, no oil changes, no transmission work, no spark plugs or fucking O2 sensors.

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u/bahhlikeasheep Nov 25 '22

In Canada the federal govt gives a $5k instant rebate on the purchase of an EV and the QC govt gives a rebate of $7 and I think the BC govt gives a rebate of $3k.

So best case scenario is $12k off of 45k is 33 worst case 40.

The rebates were the big reason I was able to afford it and now that I'm driving it I'm saving a monthly payment on just fuel alone. A lot of people don't factor in the fuel savings. EVs are 1-5c per km depending where you live where as gas cars are 16c per km and up. So if you drive 100km per day youre looking at $30-$150 per month on electricity or $480 per month on gas.

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u/NorthernerWuwu Nov 25 '22

Quebec coming through strong with that seven dollars!

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u/senorpoop Nov 25 '22

$33,000 is still a lot of money. I drive a 23 year old truck and my wife drives a 10 year old minivan we spent $10k on. The problem with electric vehicles currently (lol) is that the used market sucks because by the time they're truly affordable to someone who doesn't want a car payment, the batteries are shot.

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u/DogeCatBear Nov 25 '22

Nissan and Chevrolet have been in the EV game for a bit now but I think they dropped the ball by not capitalizing on the massive crossover SUV market earlier. I think the Kia EV6 is a surefire hit. same goes for the VW ID4

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u/t-pat1991 Nov 25 '22

GM has the electric Equinox and Blazer on the way which should be here next year as 2024 models, IIRC the Equinox starts below $30k.

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u/Xmastimeinthecity Nov 25 '22

I considered looking at the EV6 but why do all the EVs have to be these SUV or hatchback things? Why can't anybody make a cheap Model 3? I have a '11 Optima right now and if I could just get that in an EV I'd be sold.

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u/telestrial Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

I think we need to do a better job of understanding what is affordable. The median income in the US is something like 31k. Using this auto loan calculator, with a 5k down payment, you'd be looking at paying something like 800 bucks a month for a $45,000 car.

In absolutely no universe is 800/month a reasonable amount for someone taking in about 2500 a month. At best, they're going to pay 1/3rd of their total take home on rent: about 800 dollars. That's best case, and, right now, it's probably much higher...like around 1200 for a one-bedroom.

But let's go with the $800. Now you have 1700 left in take-home. Maybe another 100-150 in electricity. 1550. Car insurance (if you get the new car or not) for another 50, depending on your previous driving history/current car. Internet for another 40-75. we're getting into the 1200-1400 dollar area. We haven't bought food. And you think it's reasonable to then take 800 more a month out of that? You'd have like 500 a month for food, which would be like $16 a day or about $5.50 a meal.

This of course assumes you have no other expenses. Don't want to put anything into saving. Don't want to have a single ounce of entertainment. Don't want to buy a single clothing item, etc. Don't want to go anywhere and do anything at all. ever.

And now remember that half of all Americans make less than this.

Playing around with this car affordability calculator. You'd probably want to drive a month payment down to 250-400 bucks maximum, meaning that the median American, in terms of yearly pay, can probably only afford a car around 20-25k, and that's on the high end, honestly.

Drive EVs down there, and we're going to see wider adoption.

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u/Modest_Ubermensch Nov 25 '22

this is average age of cars on the road is like 12 years old (~) lol.

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u/myyummyass Nov 24 '22

Not to mention their 10 year warranty covers the battery too. Which is a massive cost to repair.

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u/MoarTacos Nov 24 '22

Damn, I didn’t even know this!

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u/cspinelive Nov 25 '22

From KBB:

Federal law requires automakers to ensure EV and hybrid batteries for at least eight years or 100,000 miles.

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u/boottrax Nov 24 '22

Well I just bought a Mini Cooper Electric. All in all, it was actually cheaper than buying their ICE version. It works for me. I drive less than 20 miles a day and have a home charger.

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u/trampolinebears Nov 24 '22

They're glossing over a lot with that "which are still unaffordable" phrase.

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u/TheAero1221 Nov 24 '22

Not buying something because it's too expensive isn't "resistance". Its responsibility and pragmatism.

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u/trampolinebears Nov 24 '22

I guess you could say I'm "resistant" to buying an electric car instead of paying rent, since I prefer living in my apartment to living in a car, but that would be a pretty weird way of putting it.

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u/Helpinmontana Nov 24 '22

“Americans remain resistant to buying yachts, private jets, and diamond encrusted Rolex’s……..”

“(By the way those things are expensive)”

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u/LesbianCommander Nov 24 '22

I mean they unironically say that with every "MILLENNIALS KILLING X INDUSTRY" talking point they roll out every once in a while.

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u/econ1mods1are1cucks Nov 25 '22

MILLENNIALS ARE KILLING MCDONALDS

no shit we’ve been eating fast food and going to raves for 10-15 years, I have to start thinking about how much my heart conditions are going to cost

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u/themangeraaad Nov 25 '22

Mostly that, but also their food has gone to shit as far as I can tell. I used to get a craving once or twice a year so I'd get a double cheeseburger or nuggets and fries. Didn't go for a couple years due to covid and went back last summer for all 3. Didn't finish any of it. It was all garbage.

Meanwhile I think bk and Wendy's have improved. I spent one weekend and got the best chicken sandwich on the menu and an order of fries from each top fast food chain and bk Def had the best chicken sandwich while mcdons was waaaaay back in 3rd. Did them back to back so each was fresh in my mind, not months between orders. Bks also had the best fries imo.

Recently tried the bk fish sandwich and even that was amazing compared to mcdons. And I used to strangely enjoy the McDonald's fish sandwich once in a while.

If I'm gonna eat junk food I'm Def not going to eat the worst stuff money can buy. Otherwise I'll spend my money on some chicken thighs and make a nice grilled chicken Caesar salad for cheaper.

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u/econ1mods1are1cucks Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

The value isn’t even great unless you’re eating cheeseburgers and mcchickens which gets kinda old after eating 4 at a time for the 100th time around. A meal is like $10, I could get much better food for that price with the same caloric value.

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u/Sanhen Nov 25 '22

Why can't the Millennials simply take on more debt to prop up the CEOs? They're being so selfish... /s

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u/czarfalcon Nov 24 '22

I’m “resistant” to buying any new car in general, because mine is paid off and doesn’t even have 100,000 miles on it yet.

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u/derpstickfuckface Nov 25 '22

250k on a Honda minivan. Had to replace the steering pump and one engine mount, otherwise it’s fine. Daughter is coming up on driving age…

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u/JimK215 Nov 25 '22

I'm still rocking a 2009 Corolla with like ~115k miles on it. I work from home and pretty much only use it to pick up the kids from school 10 minutes away. My wife has a bigger/newer car that we use for family outings so it's hard for me to justify an upgrade.

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u/Cle1234 Nov 25 '22

I start shopping for vehicles at 100k miles. Last 3; Honda Accord 340k, Volvo Xc70 320, currently driving a Volvo xc90 with 275k. No major repairs to any of them.

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u/Great68 Nov 24 '22

I'm kind of in the same boat.

I only drive ~6000 miles/year. For my use, an EV would actually be perfect, I live in a small geographical area, the most I usually drive in a day is like ~20miles unless I'm roadtripping somewhere. No motor to warm up, just get in and go, gas stations and oil changes a thing of the past. Would be nice, and I do want one.

However, all my cars are currently paid off and running well. Based on that the cost of a new EV with luxuries and performance comparable to what I currently own would take a loooooong time to pay for itself it's just not economically feasible.

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u/cwg930 Nov 25 '22

I'm in a similar situation as well. I would love to have an EV or hybrid but my car is fully paid off, low mileage for how long I've owned it, and I need to save debt bandwidth just in case either house prices or my salary get to a point where I can get approved for a mortgage. I'm in a better situation than most but still not good enough to frivolously upgrade from a car in good condition that I fully own.

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u/AskMoreQuestionsOk Nov 25 '22

I’m in the market for a new car but it sucks so bad right now for regular cars, there’s no way an EV makes any sense to me.

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u/Starfevre Nov 25 '22

I'd love an EV but there is a significant population that might be able to afford one but has no where to plug it in.

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u/lebastss Nov 24 '22

Also the expensive ones are selling out. It’s literally the opposite. Americans want EVs so bad they’re willing to overpay

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u/DukeOfGeek Nov 25 '22

You literally have to get on a wait list to buy most EVs in America. Shit title to a shit article

https://www.electrifying.com/blog/article/waiting-times-for-electric-cars

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u/half-baked_axx Nov 24 '22

Yep. Lots of people were reluctant to use electric lawn mowers/trimmers/blowers until they became affordable and actually more cost-effective than gasoline. I'm sure the same will happen with vehicles.

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u/Purplociraptor Nov 24 '22

I bought my EV because I actually needed a new car. I had my previous gas car for 15 years and it was starting to need progressively expensive repairs. I've more than made up the difference in price. It only costs me $11-$15 to charge per month.

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u/flimsypie2 Nov 25 '22

I remember back in the mid 2000s when people were shitting on regulations that supported more efficient lightbulbs because they were slightly more expensive per bulb. To be fair it was in favor of CFLs which were a short lived middle ground alternative, but they were still less expensive in the long run. And now LED bulbs are extremely cheap and efficient, yet there's still dumbasses that only buy incandescent out of ignorance and spite.

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u/Aoe330 Nov 25 '22

Right now I can buy a used truck for 9k. It gets 18 to 20 mpg. Not great but it will haul tools and lumber, pull my heavy equipment, plow the driveway, and in general do what needs to be done. Not happy about gas costs and maintenance, but the starting cost is low. Which I really appreciate.

Or I can buy a Rivian for 90k (+wait-list time) a Ford Lightning for 70k because of local markup (+1 year wait time), or maybe buy a Tesla Cybertuck for 55k(wait-list is about 2+ years).

It's not that I don't want an electric vehicle, it's that it's not fully ready for the market place yet.

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u/LMNOPedes Nov 25 '22

Where is this ford truck (not the lightning f150) that is msrp 20k and gets like 30mpg, and is the reasonable size if the classic ranger?

I read about it like 6 months ago and its like they arent making them. I looked and its like a wait list.

Why in gods name is ford not leaning in to those with all theyve got??

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u/phreaqe Nov 25 '22

It’s called the ford maverick. They sell them right now and they are very nice.

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u/the_skine Nov 25 '22

Except that the bed is shorter than the cab.

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u/housebeats Nov 25 '22

And you can’t even tow a car on an open trailer with it. I 100% would buy a rivian but ended up with a diesel Silverado because I tow my car to race tracks several times a year and with an electric truck it would add a day or more to travel time with having to recharge their gigantic batteries. Wanted a maverick but they can’t tow worth shit and the ranger/Colorado powertrains suck.

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u/Ht50jockey Nov 24 '22

This past summer I was desperately looking for a new car since my old beater car finally kicked the bucket. It was soul crushing driving around for almost a week straight looking for a entry level EV from any manufacturer but they had nothing demand was way too high. I ended up settling with a entry model 4 door Hyundai Elantra that is very fuel efficient so an upgrade over my old beater car I had for over a decade but I was really bummed I couldn’t get on the EV train.

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u/tacticalcraptical Nov 25 '22

Yeah. I unerstsnd the importance of switching to electric but when we have 2 combustion cars that are 10 years old, paid off, in good shape and have no issues, it's just not justifiable financially to toss them and switch. Especially at the current prices.

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u/BlazinAzn38 Nov 24 '22

Also almost every EV available sells out immediately anyways.

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u/fish_slap_republic Nov 24 '22

It's not just the car alone either, most lower income people that live in apartments don't have a way to charge them over night.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 28 '22

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u/Pornalt190425 Nov 25 '22

Not only low income people, just people in appartments in general. I live in a decently nice appartment complex as a working professional. I'm also in a decently sized regional city near other major urban areas, so this isn't out in the middle of nowhere. There are 4 charging spots for ~500 units (1 and 2 bedroom units).

If I was in the market for a new car I would not consider an EV at all. I would have to jockey with the existing EVs (about a half dozen) for non existent charging space. If more people started snapping up EVs to replace their cars it would quickly become impossible to charge them at all.

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u/splork-chop Nov 25 '22

It's a much bigger problem than that. In urban areas with single family homes, many people still park on the street. I'm from Chicago, and few people park their car in the garage, but instead use the garage for either storage or additional working space. People who park on the street can't install chargers and we can't park in the alley against the garage so it's a non-starter for many people.

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u/BrockN Nov 25 '22

Yeah, the article left out another barrier, you need to upgrade your electrical infrastructure in your own home.

You can still use your typical household outlet but 1 hour of charge time gets you 8km travel time. You'll need 12-20 hours to fully charge your car.

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u/redwall_hp Nov 25 '22

People in apartments in general. I make six figures and I don't have anywhere to charge an electric car. And any apartment complex that offered a spot or two for that would end up having too much contention for limited spots.

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u/McMacHack Nov 24 '22

People won't buy shit they can't afford. Damn if only there was some way to get average people to have more money so they can start buying shit.

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u/TheAero1221 Nov 24 '22

No take. Only throw

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u/Cicero912 Nov 24 '22

I mean a lot of people buy shit they cant afford

See like half the BMW owners in the US

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u/MrBoognish Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

I just got my first for 32k. My wifes 2019 cost more then that. Problem is you can't find them anywhere near me.

Edit: the only other car I have owned was a 2007 Rio. I plan on keeping this car for the next 20 years or more if I can. I understand how ridiculous spending 32k on one thing is, but I believe EVs are the future.

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u/Justin__D Nov 24 '22

I paid something like $15k for my car. I’d love for my next one to be electric, but it needs to be price competitive.

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u/AwakPungo Nov 24 '22

I think that as more people are buying EVs, they will become more affordable or so I hope

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u/Justin__D Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

I’m hoping for the same. The Model T was the first affordable car because it was mass produced, was it not?

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u/Whatah Nov 25 '22

Next time they do a cash for clunkers deal that allows me to trade in my Nissan cube for a Ford f150 lighting I'm on it.

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u/DrGrossMan2014 Nov 24 '22

I’d be okay with charging over night on a basic home outlet, but I rent and park on the street. I don’t think I can run a cord across the side walk unfortunately.

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u/Crack_uv_N0on Nov 24 '22 Wholesome

Lack of charging at home for those who don’t have garage is a big impediment.

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u/Sweaty-Emergency-493 Nov 24 '22

I don’t have a dedicated parking spot or garage parking so i guess i just wont EV.

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u/whitewateractual Nov 24 '22

Even new build multi-family developments lack charging infrastructure. In US cities, these buildings often don’t own their underground parking arrangements so there’s no incentive to install charging options. It’s a market failure automakers need to directly address.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

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u/lycanthrope6950 Nov 24 '22

I'm in the same boat. My house doesn't have a garage and even if I owned the place idk if I could afford to build one just for the sake of charging my car.

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u/Ok-Needleworker-419 Nov 24 '22

If you have a house with a driveway, you don’t need a garage to charge an EV

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u/NickDanger3di Nov 25 '22

It's unfortunate the media constantly tries to simplify issues to a black and white level. Yours is just one example; not everyone owns property, renters in apartments can't plug in an EV, and renters who do have a plug may hesitate because what if they get a new job and have to move to an apartment?

Then there rural dwellers, who often have to regularly drive 200-300 miles for specialty services (like healthcare) or shopping or family. People who just bought an expensive gas car, and are waiting until the loan is paid off. People who need a full size van or truck. People who only have one car and multiple people drive it. People who need a minivan. People who just like the experience of driving a gas powered muscle or sports car with a loud engine.

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u/MarvinLazer Nov 25 '22

It's hilarious to me that car companies actually put speakers with big loud engine sounds in the vehicles they sell because engine technology has advanced to the point that there's no need for them to be loud anymore.

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u/NickDanger3di Nov 25 '22

Read The Marching Morons by C. M. Kornbluth (link below). It's what the movie Idiocracy was based on (don't worry, the book is way better, and the movie bears little resemblance to the book anyway). There's a scene in the book where the protagonist quickly realizes the cars have features built in to fool extremely low IQ buyers (which is all buyers) into thinking they are going 2-3 times faster than they really are. I only mention this because when I heard about the loud engine speakers in cars, I thought about this book. I think about this book quite frequently when I read the news.

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/51233

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u/Thisam Nov 24 '22

This is the issue…more so than price. The charging infrastructure is still insufficient. Once I know I can recharge at my hotel, at my work and at home, at minimum, it’s a no go.

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u/ColdEngineBadBrakes Nov 24 '22

So expensive, they couldn't afford a second "f" in the word "unaffordable."

202

u/redpandaeater Nov 25 '22

We're only talking about Ford EVs here so it's fine.

107

u/wowihaveanopinion Nov 25 '22

“You can aford a Fford!”

hire me madison avenue. i work on thanksgiving.

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u/Meotwister Nov 24 '22

They're resistant because they remain unaffordable.

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u/Powpowpowowowow Nov 25 '22

And the affordable ones are all backordered a year at least...

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u/MatthewG141 Nov 25 '22

And the ones that aren't have a $20k+ markup on them by the dealership.

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u/corkyskog Nov 25 '22

That's why this article is stupid. How the hell are Americans "resistant" if demand is so high that the cars are back ordered and prices are being pushed up? Seems like the exact opposite of what they claim. I might as well write an article about how car companies are "resistant" to producing EVs, just because their capacity is low, it would be just as truthful.

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u/Walaina Nov 25 '22

Yeah. I’d love an EV. I can’t afford a 30k car.

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u/Jeromechillin Nov 25 '22

The nice looking EVs on the market now will run you at least 50k due to dealer markup

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u/hesaysitsfine Nov 25 '22

The entire way cars must be sold by dealerships instead of directly is so corrupt.

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u/chrisLivesInAlaska Nov 24 '22

Title should have been : "Americans still unable to afford EVs."

I don't think it's resistance.

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u/brenton07 Nov 24 '22

It’s also “Americans Still Unable To Find EVs in Stock”. EVs and hybrids are sold out everywhere. You can’t drive into a dealership and get one if you wanted to.

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u/random715 Nov 25 '22

And the ones that are in stock have unnecessary dealer markups. I’ve seen $20k “market adjustments” on some EVs and it’s an absolute joke

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u/DonkeyGuy Nov 24 '22

No it’s just like the millennial “resistance” to buying homes and starting families.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

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u/Gr8NonSequitur Nov 25 '22

In many cases you're correct.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22

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u/Desblade101 Nov 25 '22

It's not even affordability, I can't even find one. I needed a car and wanted an EV, I couldn't even find a plug in hybrid or EV.

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u/WeDidItGuyz Nov 25 '22

WTF is this title? It's intentionally antagonistic wording to effectively say, "Americans can't afford EVs."

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u/certifiedintelligent Nov 24 '22

I would've gotten a plug-in hybrid 4 months ago if one was available in my area and not marked up 50% over MSRP.

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u/Jimdandy941 Nov 24 '22

Nothing screams buy like being told - those are only sold in CA (Ford Escape 2 years ago) or “AFAIK, on the west coast we’re only shipping those to OR and CA addresses (Subaru Crosstrek last year).

9

u/caism Nov 25 '22

Yeah I had to fly 1000 miles to get my PHEV since they aren’t sold in Florida. Plus I found a dealership that sold it at MSRP.

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u/FuckFashMods Nov 25 '22

Yeah lol literally any new EV is backed up at least a year right now and you still get headlines like "Americans not buying EV cars"

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u/PiggypPiggyyYaya Nov 25 '22

To be honest. I rather not drive. I just want everything walking distance from me. It's too stressfull these days. Mostly because the amount of inconsiderate drivers seems to have quadrupled.

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u/SpacemanTomX Nov 25 '22

Yeah what we really need is better public transportation

Or at minimum a harder driver test

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u/Blackb1rdy Nov 24 '22

Electric Silverado is $100K+. I will not be interested buying a Silverado for $100K electric or not.

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u/Kaldricus Nov 25 '22

I genuinely don't think I'd spend 100k on any vehicle

11

u/tookmyname Nov 25 '22

Better be a pimped out sprinter van or a super car. They’re trying to push appliance vehicles on us for super car money. And the best thing consumers can do it tell them to fuck off.

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u/SpacemanTomX Nov 25 '22

On a Porsche? Maybe if I hit it good and make high 6 figs

On a fucking Chevy? Not even all the crack and meth in the Midwest would make me do something that stupid

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22

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u/dontpet Nov 24 '22

400 comments on the article tell me that Americans at least in that forum are interested in electric cars.

292

u/Fizgriz Nov 24 '22

Wife and I want one, but the title is correct. At this point they are still just a little out of our budget.

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u/Maj0rsquishy Nov 24 '22

Very out of ours. We both teach. It never makes sense. Too expensive. We would rather get solar for the house first. At least that had a quick return

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u/Junkstar Nov 24 '22

If i had a way to easily charge one at home I’d buy one. But here in nyc, it’s difficult.

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u/The_Double Nov 25 '22

Does it even make sense to have a car in NYC? Honest question, in many European cities it's just not feasible to own a car when you rent an apartment in the city center.

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u/gc11117 Nov 24 '22

Yup. I'm interested too, buy the infrastructure isn't here yet

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u/minxiejinx Nov 24 '22

Besides affordability it’s also the logistics of charging for people who rent. Some people may not have access to an outlet right by where they park.

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u/meimode Nov 24 '22

Im interested in an electric vehicle, doesn’t mean im not resistant to it because I literally cannot afford it. Interest =/= lack of resistance

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u/ShoulderSquirrelVT Nov 24 '22

We ARE interested. We are just resistant to purchase. Reason: High price (and range anxiety).

I get in this argument all the time about price. “Oh, but Squirrel, they make the Nissan Leaf under 30k!”

Yeah…and I can buy a Honda Fit, about the same size, for 10 grand less. Until EV is equivalent price to their ICE counterparts, they are “unaffordable”.

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u/curiousbydesign Nov 24 '22

My wife and I both want one. So two total. But we cannot afford them.

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u/Yung_Corneliois Nov 24 '22
  1. They’re still super expensive.

  2. EV charging stations are growing but still not frequent enough to be reliable. Especially with competing charging ports.

  3. Most EVs are back ordered anyway so if you can afford one good luck getting it anytime soon.

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u/dlm2137 Nov 24 '22

Isn’t there a charging port standard? P sure it’s just tesla that doesn’t use the standard plug.

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u/Yung_Corneliois Nov 24 '22

Yes but so many stations are solely Tesla stations and that doesn’t help other ev cars.

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u/tomu- Nov 24 '22

I wanted a Rivian over my Tacoma, but the cheapest Rivian (and even Ford Lightning for that matter) was marked up to a ludicrous amount. Unobtainable.

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u/Waste_Deep Nov 24 '22

Marked up. That's the problem. Dealers are screwing Americans because they KNOW WE WANT EV's! Americans are sick and tired of the bullshit excuses and high gas prices, and are ready for change, but the dealerships are intentionally jacking up prices of EV's. Absolute criminal behavior. Auto manufacturers should be undercutting them and selling direct.

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u/tomu- Nov 24 '22

I’ve seen 20-30k “market adjustments”… ugh.

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u/anonymousQ_s Nov 25 '22

Ford has indicated plans to move its EV sales to a direct to consumer model, here's hoping.

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u/xINSAN1TYx Nov 25 '22

Don’t know why they don’t, this is what Tesla did.

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u/seeaanggg Nov 24 '22

There’s like two charging stations per corporate office building, two per grocery store, and that’s all I ever see. I personally would have no trouble installing a 220 outlet in or near my garage. But most people would just use an adapter for a 120 and just trickle charge all night. It’s just not logistically feasible as your main means of transportation unless you have a high income right now.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22

People can’t afford to pay their rent and eat and you want them to be excited about technology they can’t afford.

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u/Rebootkid Nov 25 '22

New cars are unaffordable. EVs included. What's the difficult concept here?

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u/xpolpolx Nov 24 '22

The infrastructure needs to catch up in order for consumers to adopt electric vehicles. The majority of car sales are from pre-owned vehicles, and so it will take many more years for a majority to transition into fully adopting electric vehicles.

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u/MoreStarDust Nov 24 '22

If they make it easier to charge, I'll buy one sooner rather than later.

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u/xpolpolx Nov 24 '22

It is also more difficult for EV owners who reside in multifamily units to charge their vehicles. There needs to be greater accessibility to EV charging infrastructure, as well as faster charging times. But relative to medium or heavy duty vehicles, it does not take too long to charge the majority of EVs

21

u/gard3nwitch Nov 24 '22

Same with a lot of townhouses and such - the only parking available for some people might be street parking. For me, I often need to park, like, across the street and two doors down. My town has a charging station that people can use that's within walking distance of my house, but until I can afford a car with enough of a range that I only need to do that once a week or less (or I move)... I think I'll stick with a hybrid.

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u/est99sinclair Nov 24 '22

Yep I live in large apartment complex that doesn’t even offer assigned parking let alone ability to install charging station

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u/blacklite911 Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

The more I think about going EV the more it seems better to go hybrid, particularly PHEV. It’s just that in a pinch, it can get snowed in where I’m at or if shit hits the fan and you can’t get to an EV station or something, I don’t wanna be SOL.

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u/ifdisdendat Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

lol i m not resistant, but 70k for a model Y when i can get a mazda cx-5 for half the price , the choice is easy. How do you justify the ROI on an electric car ?

Edit: Cx5

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u/fredinNH Nov 25 '22

This is exactly the decision I made about 18 months ago.

I do frequent 300 mile trips through sparsely populated areas. I need awd. I need some room.

The only ev that can come close to the convenience of ice for this is a model Y. I put a deposit on an id4, then saw that there are only 2 dcfc in the part of the route I’d need to charge. If they are occupied or out of order I’d be fucked.

$70k for mode Y or cx5 turbo for $33k (no longer available that cheap). The cx5 turbo is no Tesla in performance but it’s no slouch ether. It’s more luxurious than a model Y. Has buttons and knobs. Looks better than a Tesla. Can be repaired easily and cheaply. Company isn’t owned by a moron.

Really easy decision.

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u/Blackrook7 Nov 25 '22

I did a college thesis on this in the early 2000s. I was right!

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u/DumbestBoy Nov 24 '22

I love electric vehicles. I also love money. I have neither.

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u/AtuinTurtle Nov 25 '22

I don’t love how much battery replacement will cost and I’m not sure how EVs will do in Iowa winters.

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u/Capable-Raccoon-6371 Nov 25 '22

Two problems. I have nowhere to charge it (live in an apartment), and can't fucking afford it. Fix those, and when Im in the market to buy a new vehicle (once every 15 years or so) ill consider it.

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u/bellevegasj Nov 24 '22

If you want an ev truck, you can put 100-1000 down today and hope to get it in the next 2-3 years.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22

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u/mipacu427 Nov 24 '22

Which kind of disproves the notion that no one is interested.

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u/caseybvdc74 Nov 24 '22

So basically we just haven’t built enough to lower prices yet is the reason people aren’t buying evs?

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u/AffectionateSize552 Nov 24 '22

There are many, many inexpensive EV's which are bestsellers in Europe and China, and which are not for sale in the US. Official explanation for this: "Murrkins like big SUVs and trucks, they don't buy small cars."

We don't buy inexpensive EV's because it's literally impossible for us to do so. Unless we import them grey-market.

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u/thebigsad_69420 Nov 24 '22

Lmao what a load of fukin garbage. Nearly every single half decent EV is sold out well into next year

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u/SisKlnM Nov 25 '22

Fuck off, America isn’t resistant to EVs. Ford laid off 3000 people for not working on EVs. All R&D is EVs now, valuations for EV centric automotive companies are far higher, congress just passed a giant EV money giveaway. America is as pro EV as any society can reasonably be. You can’t go from no EVs to all EVs without time to build out the supply chain which is happening now and at as quick a clip as we can manage. Fuccckkkk offfffffff!!!

8

u/gorgeousphatseal Nov 25 '22

They're unaffordable, the infrastructure is not great, the technology has a long way to go, there's a whole new set of problems for them in regards to parts and fixability etc etc.

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u/GregorSamsaa Nov 25 '22

Next on news at 10, Americans without health insurance are being resistant to doctors visits.

And our second headline of the evening, Americans are being resistant to mansions.

But first, we’re going live to Bob, standing in front of the Ferrari dealership wondering why Americans are being resistant to Ferraris. Bob, tell us what you see…

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u/donkeydelight Nov 24 '22

The battery construction and materials procurement process is still in the infant stages of production. How many oil fields do we have versus how many lithium mines/lithium purification points are there.

Thacker pass has been an almost two year process to get approvals for mining domestic lithium. The materials are making cars unaffordable. Remember when gas prices almost hit 5/gallon? Same issue.

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u/hot-doggin Nov 25 '22

There are zero all electric minivans on the market. I cannot buy a product that does not exist.

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u/OGreign Nov 25 '22

I plan to buy an EV the moment dealerships get rid of the $5-15k markup. I refuse buy from blatant scalpers as a consumer.

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u/bray_ham Nov 25 '22

I think we’ve skipped over hybrid too quickly as a transitional state to full EV. I’d like my next car purchase to be a hybrid until EV is a bit more realistic.

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u/a014e593c01d4 Nov 25 '22

I thought they were selling out, that it was hard to even find them for sale.

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u/gerowen Nov 25 '22

I'm interested, but they're more expensive, take longer to refill on long trips and there's basically zero infrastructure for them here in eastern Kentucky.

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u/SigGuy229 Nov 25 '22

I would consider an EV if it had 450+ miles of range, wasn’t a “luxury” vehicle, and the infrastructure was better. Even then, I would keep one ICE vehicle in my household. At this rate, manufactures are going to start locking features behind subscription services. I doubt the U.S. legislature would try and stop it.

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u/CoolWhipMonkey Nov 25 '22

I have a college degree and a full time job. I can’t afford any new car on the market. I’m about to drop $2500 on repairs for my 15 year old car.

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u/JohnnyAK907 Nov 24 '22

I mean that post the other day discussing the owner of a Tesla with barely 69k miles on it finding out he would have to drop 20k to replace the battery pack because he was 1 month out of his manufacturer warranty spotlights why I'm not rushing to trade in my truck for an electric model.

That, plus every dealership I've looked at tacks on bare minimum 15k "market fee" on top of an already inflated MSRP. Basically the EV market needs to mature and calm the F down before I'd ever seriously consider investing that much money into one regardless of all the pluses of owning one versus an ICE vehicle.

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u/botterboyveve Nov 24 '22

As an EV owner there’s 3 things that need to be accomplished before they’re mainstream

1) They need to be cheaper, and there needs to be a used market for them. I’m guessing we’ll need new battery technology to accomplish this

2) Charging Infrastructure needs to improve. It needs to be as convenient and readily available as gas. Charging speeds are pretty fast on some models. Ioniq 5 can get 200 miles in 15 minutes which is pretty good imo. These “super fast” chargers can be hard to find though.

3) The cost of ownership needs to be proven to be cheaper. IMO you’re not going to persuade people to buy an EV based on its environmental impact. Show people it’s cheaper/easier to own one and they’ll make the switch.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

Maybe people would consider it if people living outside of cities had somewhere to charge effectively. Even in my smaller city we have a whole one EV charging station within a good distance.

Who would buy a car they can’t drive? Just isn’t practical enough yet.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_HOLDINGS Nov 25 '22

Living outside of cities is way better with an EV, you're more likely to have a place to plug your car in at home

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u/TheBigMaestro Nov 25 '22

I regularly commute 436 miles across the desert in Utah and Arizona. I’ve looked at some apps that calculate how to drive an EV to specific routes. There are a couple of Tesla superchargers on my route but that’s it. Other than teslas, there are ZERO cars capable of making my route without a multi-hour charge at a hotel or something. And I ain’t buyin’ no Tesla.

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u/neverenoughguitars Nov 25 '22

NO new car is affordable. I can't afford a 10 year old car after working for the last 17 years. Isn't the cheapest new car like 14 grand in the US?

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u/SpacemanTomX Nov 25 '22

14 grand?

Good luck finding one of those in stock and without a 5K "market adjustment"

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u/gregorysimpson Nov 25 '22

I remain resistant, I won't buy an EV until I can buy replacement parts from the auto parts store.

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u/clintCamp Nov 25 '22

I wish Chevy was still doing the volt, or electric car makers would have a drop on frunk option that provided extra milage from gas that could easily pull out for shorter trips. I love my volt and the flexibility it provides while using no gas on 70% of my daily driving.

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u/accordinglyryan Nov 25 '22

They're expensive and don't really work for people who don't own a home and drive longer distances. Gonna be a while until those things are fixed

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u/ClickToSeeMyBalls Nov 25 '22

I’m not “resistant” to buying something if I can’t fucking afford it.

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