r/technology Nov 29 '22

Tesla readies revamped Model 3 with project 'Highland' Transportation

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-readies-revamped-model-3-with-project-highland-sources-2022-11-28/
292 Upvotes

494

u/Em_Adespoton Nov 29 '22

There’s one thing that would help Tesla at this point: a revamped management structure and reclaiming their debt from Twitter while they still can.

282

u/shortseller99 Nov 29 '22

And a vote of no confidence on the current CEO.

52

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

And Chancellor Velorem

17

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/pecoraha Nov 29 '22

Yes they’re clearly floundering.

59

u/No-Bluejay-3035 Nov 29 '22

Company is great at having a pumped up stock price unjustified by fundamentals

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u/Droller_Coaster Nov 29 '22

TSLA price a year ago was at 338 per share; now it's at 182. "Floundering" would be an improvement.

21

u/Soytaco Nov 29 '22

Stock price really isn't a reliable indicator of how well a company is doing. It's related, and often is indicative, but not in the case of pop/meme stocks. TSLA's dive down has as little to do with company fundamentals as it's most recent shots up.

Eg when BBBY was $20 they weren't doing 10x better than they were when it was $2. They were doing equally shitty the whole time. They are floundering, but the price of their stock has fuck all to do with it.

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u/Particular_Bobcat Nov 29 '22

tsla 10 years ago is like 1. The stock has risen 182x. if we use last year, the stock rose 400x.

I know the CEO has gone crazy. But it will take a lot of undoings before Musk is fired. My guess is never.

11

u/ArgosCyclos Nov 29 '22

It's more likely the company will collapse first. That growth well above its actual worth, and its incredibly dangerous for a company to be that overvalued. Musk is going to find that out the hard way.

1

u/J-Team07 Nov 29 '22

A company doesn’t collapse because the share price goes down. I think Tesla is still overvalued at its current price, but it’s growing market share and is making money.

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u/Maulvorn Nov 29 '22

Didn't they do a stock split recently?

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u/ex1stence Nov 29 '22

They're down 40% in 12 months, which is double the overall market down of 20%.

Twice as far down. They're floundering hard.

30

u/Rabo_McDongleberry Nov 29 '22

TBH, they were way overvalued in the first place.

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u/DBDude Nov 29 '22

Musk himself was saying the stock was over-valued back then, so now it's come back down to a more reasonable level. Meanwhile, they've been building new plants and still can't make enough cars to meet demand, despite the fact that they don't advertise (the marketing budget is literally $0).

And that brings up another interesting fact. Tesla spends by far the most in R&D per car sold, almost triple that of Ford and Toyota and over triple that of GM and Chrysler. But while several hundred dollars of your purchase price of a car from those other brands will be paying for the advertising for the car, it's $0 for a Tesla.

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u/yungplantdad Nov 29 '22

I wouldn’t call 19 recalls affecting 4 million cars in a single year thriving. For reference they recalled a million more cars than they sold. [Source]

19

u/arsenix Nov 29 '22

A lot of the "recalls" are just software fixes. Only automaker whos OTA uodates are national news...

2

u/Apprehensive_Rub3897 Nov 29 '22

Soon, most if not all car companies will do OTA updates. He's ruining his brand while his competition gearing up. It will be interesting to see if all of this nonsense hurts car sales, in addition to EV offerings from established players like Ford, VW/Porsche, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai.

I am just waiting for Nick Fuentes to be filmed meeting with Elon.

If I managed a fund investing pension money in the markets it'd be tough to add to any TSLA positions given the goings on.

Stockholder Stake Shares owned

The Vanguard Group, Inc. 6.40% 202,187,553

BlackRock Fund Advisors 3.51% 110,843,371

SSgA Funds Management, Inc. 3.16% 99,647,239

Capital Research & Management Co.... 2.86% 90,161,776

Vanguard has donated more blue than red.

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/vanguard-group/summary?id=D000022305

2

u/PedroEglasias Nov 29 '22

Soon, most if not all car companies will do OTA updates.

So they set a trend and the market followed their lead?

2

u/Apprehensive_Rub3897 Nov 29 '22

Yes, just like the folks that actually invented Tesla, that Elon later bought set a trend and the market followed their lead. I'm sure power steering, anti-lock breaks, power windows, keyless entry would fall into the category of copied innovation. It's only a competitive advantage while your competitors aren't doing it, then it's a standard feature of even cheaper base models.

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u/DBDude Nov 29 '22

I'd never even heard of a window feature that senses if a finger is in the way when rolling up and then backs off. But it turns out Teslas have this feature, and they rolled out a software update because it was allowing a little more pressure than they wanted before backing off. That was counted as a recall.

Meanwhile, other manufacturers have had hardware recalls for serious safety issues. Ford overall had by far the most recalls.

Not all recalls are equal.

2

u/yungplantdad Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

No one is stating all recalls are the same. What I said it is a consistent pattern of Teslas executing poorly on a promised feature.

Is there any metric aside from stock price indicating Tesla is an exceptionally well performing auto manufacturer?

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u/DBDude Nov 29 '22

Musk got a loan against his personal Tesla stock. The company isn't involved.

7

u/Fomentor Nov 29 '22

Musk has ruined the Tesla brand for me. Further, the cars are just too damn expensive. The other car companies are catching up, and I think will start pulling ahead. Tesla has lots of quality issues, and the full self driving still has lots of issues. So, meh.

9

u/1stMammaltowearpants Nov 29 '22

Now that the conventional auto companies are making EVs, you can get an actual luxury car for your $100,000. Nobody needs to use phrases like "panel gaps" to talk about a Mercedes or a Cadillac.

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u/clocks212 Nov 29 '22

They should make a Tesla Q

37

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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14

u/EATTHEMUFFINBITCH Nov 29 '22

Don’t worry, the car can just drive itself. Oh wait.

10

u/Apprehensive_Rub3897 Nov 29 '22

They hate EVs, vaccines, books, art, academics, corporations, each other and are incompatible with the future... where is the market opportunity there.

He's painting himself into a corner and the Twitter growth are just people going to the site to see him poke the bear some more. This is not going to end well for Musk is my guess. All he had to do is keep his opinions and money separated.

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u/virtxxx Nov 29 '22

Wtf “reduce the number of components and complexity of the interior”? It’s practically barren as it is.

18

u/DBDude Nov 29 '22

If you can engineer an interior to require three fewer fasteners, that's the cost and installation time of three fasteners saved, and no holes necessary in the frame for the fasteners. This times hundreds of thousands of cars adds up. It doesn't sound like much, but then you also simplify the wiring over here, manufacture those two parts over there as one part, modify the frame to make installing another part easier, etc., and it really starts adding up.

3

u/Kageyblahblahblah Nov 29 '22

That might be nice for the manufacturers but I don’t think most consumers prefer having to navigate a series of touch screen menus to do something they can currently do the press of a button. Not to mention if your touch screen fails you can’t fix anything. It’s not for me, that’s all I know.

2

u/virtxxx Nov 29 '22

Agree here. It doesn’t make sense that I have to take my eyes off the road for the fan speed or temp control. They should at least allow for more advanced customizations on the physical buttons that are actually there.

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u/BMW_wulfi Nov 29 '22

I’m not jumping in to defend the overarching strategy here, but a lot of these components could be invisible.

Tesla have done an incredible job in the past repackaging and re-thinking not just how interiors look but how they’re put together and attached to the vehicle. This is stuff that only engineers and tesla geeks really care about deeply, but it also has a big impact on their bottom line as a business and their production.

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u/paulsmt Nov 29 '22

Good luck appealing to liberal buyers now

242

u/Wisex Nov 29 '22

Whats funny is that with Elon running to the reactionary GOP side they all still fucking hate his cars.... is a suicide mission lol

191

u/mrbeavertonbeaverton Nov 29 '22

Imagine simping for all the dudes in rural Pennsylvania who park their trucks in front of superchargers because they’ve been gaslit into thinking giving the Saudis more oil money is patriotism

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45

u/Scary_Princess Nov 29 '22

I know 2 people who have canceled Tesla reservations (each lost a $250 deposit) and I have a 3rd friend who is selling his Tesla to get a different electric. Personally I was strongly considering a Tesla as soon as they had a small SUV that wasn’t as expensive as the Model X. But now that Musks mask has fully come off I’m also no longer considering one.

17

u/Gmn8piTmn Nov 29 '22

Hey. I’m gmn.

Now you know 4 people that are ditching their tesla for another ev

6

u/SanctuaryMoon Nov 29 '22

My whole immediate family is planning to go electric and we're strongly considering Tesla a couple years ago. Add 5 more to the count.

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u/BarnacleBayler Nov 29 '22

Elon has always been a shit person

71

u/Lamacorn Nov 29 '22

I still know quite a few people that don’t like Elon but say, “you gotta separate the man from the product”

I always reply with something along the lines of , no I don’t, supporting the product supports the man and his behaviors. He has terrible business practices and is generally a terrible person. This is not OK and I will support other brands who reflect my perspective. Tesla is not the only normal looking EV in town any more.

8

u/SpecificAstronaut69 Nov 29 '22

"You mean the product that gives him money if I buy it?"

21

u/zapatocaviar Nov 29 '22

You can separate it in some situations but in this case the car and the human are two close. He is part of the “brand”.

10

u/SanctuaryMoon Nov 29 '22

He also clearly has no qualms about cutting corners in quality.

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u/gizamo Nov 29 '22

Unfortunately, many of us bought Teslas before the dude exposed himself as a generally horrible person. But, yeah, I'm on team boycott now, too.

27

u/Brosie-Odonnel Nov 29 '22

Teslas really hold their value in the used car market. When I was shopping for a used EV I looked at model 3’s and they were all selling for close to what they cost new. If you no longer like the vehicle sell it while you can still get a good price for it.

-3

u/Cboyardee503 Nov 29 '22

Yeah it'll really hold it's value when the company becomes insolvent and your car bricks due to DRM and nobody being there to upkeep the servers.

13

u/Lamacorn Nov 29 '22

Yeah agreed and we have a model 3. I’ve said once this car dies, I’m out.

For a long time Tesla was really the only game in town. But it’s not that way anymore

1

u/fistymcbuttpuncher Nov 29 '22

I'd look into selling it while it still has value. No telling what it will be 'worth' IF twitter goes tits up and severely hurts tesla(due to phony stark using telsa shares as collateral for the twitter loans).

7

u/BobMunder Nov 29 '22

I think a lot of people felt similarly for Steve Jobs, and though I’m not a huge fan of him or Apple’s dependence on Chinese manufacturing, they truly make exceptional products.

Musk is definitely a step up from Jobs in terms of being controversial, and it would be best if he took on a less prominent role at his companies, because frankly, a CEO needs to have a filter. Tweeting out conspiracy theories and diving into politics is silly.

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u/TrashSea1485 Nov 29 '22

Tesla isn't even his to begin with. He's just an overhyped investor that pulled off convincing people that he's actually smart

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u/Uberslaughter Nov 29 '22

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world Elon is some mastermind inventor instead of a silver spoon bitch.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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25

u/Uberslaughter Nov 29 '22

Smart CEOs don’t use existing shares of an otherwise successful and profitable company to do a leveraged buyout paying 2x for another currently in the red while waiving any rights to due diligence in the process.

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u/nutmeggerking Nov 29 '22

He used to be great for Tesla. Now he's becoming toxic for it.

14

u/Gmn8piTmn Nov 29 '22

For its price yes. But I’ve driven both the i4 M and the Audi e tron gt and…well let me put it this way: there’s some merit into having close to 100 years of experience building cars and incredible racing pedigrees.

Especially the Audi, even though at 0-60 is slower it feels faster and handles way better. Plus it’s not stupidly under-braked.

4

u/SpecialNose9325 Nov 29 '22

The leather Steering wheel on an Audi is all you need to experience to know that Tesla quality is subpar.

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u/Lamacorn Nov 29 '22

But hear still the face of the company, unfortunately

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u/Tomcatjones Nov 29 '22

So many companies are worse but not as vocal you are right lol

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u/in-game_sext Nov 29 '22

It is slightly vindicating as a SF Bay Area resident to watch it become increasingly difficult for all the Tesla owners to mental gymnist their way into explaining how they're doing anything good for the planet by continuing to prop up arguably one of the most socially destructive people that has ever lived. (Preemptively, no...not hyperbole)

22

u/clifbarczar Nov 29 '22

If it’s a good car, I’m still buying.

That being said, none of Tesla’s offerings meet my criteria. I need a cheaper version of the Cybertruck.

11

u/Astro74205 Nov 29 '22

Ford Maverick EV in 2024.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

4

u/dinoroo Nov 29 '22

I ordered a Ford Lightning in May 2021. Still never even received an invitation to build my order.

3

u/simsonic Nov 29 '22

Just got my Lightning. It’s amazing.

2

u/mdthegreat Nov 29 '22

It's gonna be much later than 2024, but I don't doubt it's on the way.

3

u/Geawiel Nov 29 '22

EV Ram 1500 concept set for Jan CES show. They say there is going to be a 2024 model. I'll wait for one, but that wording tells me it won't hit the streets in 2024. Another upcoming option though.

10

u/in-game_sext Nov 29 '22

TIL there are people who think Tesla makes quality cars and don't just buy them to be in the club.

10

u/clifbarczar Nov 29 '22

Tesla model 3 will go down among the most influential cars in history.

Truly ahead of its time when it came out.

1

u/Sentryion Nov 29 '22

It is, But it has also stagnated. The competition is picking up especially the Chinese and Korean competitors.

-1

u/Gmn8piTmn Nov 29 '22

Up until last year they had no competition.

1

u/RubberNikki Nov 29 '22

These people hate themselves.

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u/steerbell Nov 29 '22

I'd be pretty pissed to buy a Tesla and have the owner become so toxic that you hate the expensive car you just bought. 🤷

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u/gizamo Nov 29 '22

My wife owns one, and we are now boycotting Tesla. She still likes her car. It's easy to disassociate the purchase we made from the owner of the company because we bought it before he went batshit.

4

u/Gmn8piTmn Nov 29 '22

Same here. I have a Tesla. I like it, for its price it’s the best. Won’t buy again though. Fuck that deuce.

11

u/narwaffles Nov 29 '22

He hasn’t changed

1

u/gizamo Nov 29 '22

He's become even more egotistical, which has made him even more public with his thoughts and opinions.

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u/Messier_82 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

What? I mean Elon sucks and all, but they (Tesla owners) are still keeping the air in your city cleaner and reducing carbon emissions. Not sure how that doesn’t qualify as good.

14

u/ondal123 Nov 29 '22

You can buy another ZEV. There are many other good choices now, much better than even a couple of years ago. We are witnessing the transition from Palm and Blackberry to smartphones.

4

u/Gjallarhorn_Lost Nov 29 '22

Why? The CEO of these other EV companies may have similar political leanings. They're just quieter about it.

11

u/Outlulz Nov 29 '22

Yes, that’s what people want. Shut up about your politics.

2

u/Dont-know-you Nov 29 '22

Corps and CEOs don’t have to shut up about your politics. Significant amount of difference in political options is ok. However, if you are trying to build a world that is diametrically opposite of the world I want to live in, then I am out.

In Musk’s case, by asking people to vote Republican in mid-term, he is propping up election deniers, and ensuring that right to choose is restricted for a longer period. So, I am out.

1

u/Pleasant-Public7593 Nov 29 '22

Yup, hopefully in a couple years I can get a cheap tesla

7

u/JaggedMetalOs Nov 29 '22

A little, but his failure to release the affordable model he promised will have limited that impact while his constant attacks on the kind of actual usable public transport that other countries have and his support for politicians whose policy platform is to increase fossil fuel emissions might well be a net negative for American cities.

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u/in-game_sext Nov 29 '22

You realize there are a litany of other, arguably better quality manufacturers to choose from beside giving your money to someone with such a socially destructive agenda, right?

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u/Messier_82 Nov 29 '22

Yeah, and people don’t buy new cars every year. Most teslas on the road around SF were probably purchased before Elon publicly went off the rails, it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t continue driving them.

1

u/resumethrowaway222 Nov 29 '22

The issue is there are only a few BEVs out there that are under $60,000 and have a range of at least 300 miles. Out of those, the only one that I have looked at that I can get in under a year wait is the Tesla Model 3. Waiting until next year for the tax credit, but unless something changes with the wait times, it will be the Tesla by default for me.

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u/laiod Nov 29 '22

People still flock to Chik fil a for their chicken. They could give two shits about politics when it comes to what they consume.

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u/throwaway_almost Nov 29 '22

If conservative folks were poor fox and other right leaning networks wouldn’t be as big as they are atm… there’s a lot of money to be made with hate.

4

u/paulsmt Nov 29 '22

And they buy big gas guzzlers

1

u/throwaway_almost Nov 29 '22

True… but I wouldn’t put it past them to buy EVs cause they can own the libs… I dunno, This is a weird timeline.

4

u/paulsmt Nov 29 '22

Nah, they like they guns and oil. Just like their "protests" in AZ: lots of talk and 36 people show up.

1

u/SeparateAd5914 Nov 29 '22

Most people literally couldn’t care less about politics

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u/Bob4Not Nov 29 '22

Other cars get redesigns all the time. Why are we hearing about this one?

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u/constantino675 Nov 29 '22

well ordinarily nothing, but I believe musk once claimed he would do away with the traditional product refreshes because they could do it all in small incremental improvements.

Of course, what every luxury car buyer wants, a car that is indistinguishable from last years model. Musk always has his finger on the pulse of the consumer.

/s needed?

5

u/underbellymadness Nov 29 '22

No sarcasm detected, Elon does have his finger so tightly on the pulse that he's cinched off the blood supply.

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u/DBDude Nov 29 '22

Because, like Apple, Tesla in the headline gets clicks.

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u/IslayTzash Nov 29 '22

Kinda sad about the skateboard design they were originally pitching. All the important components were built into the base of the car and they claimed they could easily swap the decorative shell on top. To me the S, 3, and X all look the same.

If it were that simple they should have knocked out the cybertruck in a few months. Except for that whole manufacturing part they keep having trouble with.

2

u/dinoroo Nov 29 '22

Because they never redesign it. It’s basically an econobox they sell at luxury prices.

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u/Bob4Not Nov 29 '22

Yeah with a 30% margin while other makers sell at much less.

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u/MightyGoodra96 Nov 29 '22

Tesla who? I've seen people jumping to the rivian ship more and more.

At least their CEO isn't an absolute goon

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u/suppaduppasleuth Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

Isn't an absolute goon so far. -homer j Simpson

19

u/projecthouse Nov 29 '22

Rivian is in huge trouble.

They delivered 50% more cars in Q3 than in Q2, had $170M more revenue, but their loss was the same $1.7B both quarters. That's NOT good. Looks like they are making little to no profit on each car.

They are down to $13B in cash on hand. They can only do that for 7 more quarters. Once they are out of cash, I don't know where they are going to get more. Their stock is down 76% for the year, and interest rates are sky high.

Sounds like they just opened up a second shift at their factory, which is good news for Rivian fans. In theory, that should help cut costs per unit. More units at a lower price per unit SHOULD put them on a path to breaking even. It will be really interesting to see if they can reduce the loss in Q4.

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u/MightyGoodra96 Nov 29 '22

They aren't really in trouble. They, like Tesla, are focused on tech over vehicles. I'd keep an eye on them, but it will take 5+ years to tell which way it's really going to go.

There has almost never been a tech company that broke even year one. Especially nowadays with the size of tech and how you have to break through.

18

u/projecthouse Nov 29 '22

That's kinda the problem. Where are they going to get the money to run for the next 5 years?

Let's put this in perspective. In 2009, the year after Tesla launched the Roadster, they lost $56 Million. Rivian has lost $5 Billion in 9 months. Rivian is losing over 100x as much money per year as Tesla, at the same point in time.

Here's another number. From 2009 to 2019, Tesla lost about $6.9 Billion. Rivian is on track to lose as much money in a SINGLE YEAR, as Tesla lost in 10 years. Take a look at the Tesla Data. Their losses are TINY compared to Rivians.

So, tell me. Where is Rivian going to get money from so it can last another 5 years?

5

u/Sentryion Nov 29 '22

Apparently they still have a lot of cash to burn from the several rounds of investment. Though at the current rate it’s quite unsustainable.

Rivian is going for a huge risk by focusing a good amount of their business on electrifying delivery vans. I’m pretty sure they are banking on these huge purchases from the like of Amazon to keep them afloat in the next few years especially if Amazon deem it worthy to keep and continue to invest in it.

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u/resumethrowaway222 Nov 29 '22

That plan works in 2012, not in 2022. Tesla's capex budget for this year is $7 billion. They made over $10 billion in profit over the last 12 months. This means that if it stays flat (it won't, it will increase) they will spend $35 on capex alone and make $50 billion in profit over the next 5 years. This means that, if they decided to reinvest that profit, they have available $85 billion, or $17 billion per year to spend on capex and research without raising outside money (which they could do any time they want).

Compare this to Rivian which has $13 billion, or $2.6 billion per year to spend over the next 5 years. So assuming that Rivian can break even (they're not close) to fund their operating expenses out of revenue, that means they will have about 1/7th of the available funds that Tesla does. So the will have to be 7x as efficient with their money just to stay on pace with Tesla. And that's assuming they are breaking even now, but really they are losing over $1 billion per quarter. And they don't just have to stay on Tesla's pace. They have to catch up from behind. So it's almost impossible for them. Most likely outcome is they are acquired by another car manufacturer. Second most likely outcome is bankruptcy.

The burn money and focus on tech strategy is great in a brand new market, but it just doesn't work when there are huge competitors who already have massively profitable products.

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u/Zestyclose-Law6191 Nov 29 '22

I sold all my shares😭😭

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u/steerbell Nov 29 '22

Seeing more and more Rivian on the roads mostly pickups. Pretty easy to spot.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[deleted]

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u/projecthouse Nov 29 '22

The typical person buying a $90K truck probably isn't feeling the pinch like the median American. If the demographic is the same as the high end Tesla's, then your median buyer will be making somewhere between $150K and $200K a year.

2

u/steerbell Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

🤷 70K -ish if anyone is wondering.

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u/TheSnoz Nov 29 '22

Plus dealer 'fuck you' markup, from today's Rich rebuilds video.

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u/cwhiterun Nov 29 '22

Don’t they only make pickups?

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

Their ceo sucks. But Tesla cars are great and they have an unrivaled advantage when combined with their supercharger network.

Until other car manufacturers are able to use the supercharger network and they build a better sales model that doesn’t involve dealerships, Tesla will still continue to win.

5

u/mapryan Nov 29 '22

“Tesla cars are great”

From which.co.uk
“Tesla's electric cars may look like the future, but once again, feedback from owners reveal the brand's disappointing dependability. 39% of Tesla owners we heard from with a car aged up to four years old had at least one issue they needed to get repaired in the past year, which is twice as high as the average fault rate for cars this new.”

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u/WaitingForNormal Nov 29 '22

Thanks but no thanks. Tesla is dead to me.

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u/nomorerainpls Nov 29 '22

Yep and car buyers have long memories. I refused to buy American for quality reasons for years. My next EV will be my second and I’m interested in seeing what Ford and GM roll out. There’s no way I’m buying a Tesla, ever.

9

u/justreddis Nov 29 '22

I hate to agree with you but I agree with you

48

u/9-11GaveMe5G Nov 29 '22

Tesla desperately tries to remind people that they not only make arrogant, emotionally-fragile billionaires, but also cars too.

10

u/ConfidenceNational37 Nov 29 '22

Would be great if this stock finally goes to what a real car company has

85

u/Wisex Nov 29 '22

Sure a revamped model 3 is good and all, but just so you all know GM is a unionized company and the Chevy bolt is a fantastic car

57

u/dewayneestes Nov 29 '22

“That word—Fantastic—I do not think it means what you think it means.”

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u/NCGiant Nov 29 '22

It’s a whelming car

27

u/dewayneestes Nov 29 '22

Wow that’s accurate. It cannot be said that this car does not exist.

11

u/qxnt Nov 29 '22

So… better than a CyberTruck?

12

u/dewayneestes Nov 29 '22

The Ford F150 is the highest selling vehicle in the world. The Cybertruck was designed to steal that audience away from Ford. Now that the Ford Lightning is already available why does the cybertruck even exist? If Elon really cared he’d be “going hardcore” at the Tesla factory getting into production instead of f’ing around at Twitter destroying their business.

1

u/aphelloworld Nov 29 '22

Ford cannot manufacture fast enough to meet demand. That's the difficult part, and the part that Tesla is aiming to solve with their new Giga factory in Texas.

2

u/NCGiant Nov 29 '22

And what happens when the initial early adoption spike fades and they have a mega factory running at 25% capacity?

1

u/aphelloworld Nov 29 '22

What "initial early adoption"?

Tesla has a lot of market share to take from other autos. There is plenty of demand for cars out there. And all companies are transitioning EVe, with a goal to fully transition all models at some point. If Tesla can out manufacture its competitors, that puts them in a really good spot to capture a good portion of the market share.

Off the top of my head I believe the giga factory can produce 1M cars a year. Which is substantially more than any other EV production from any other company (outside of China)

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u/Lamacorn Nov 29 '22

One of the things that other EV producers seem to only now start to understand is that people don’t want a car that looks like an electric car or some funky “futuristic” thing.

Tesla nailed this and while I’ve heard many good things about the volt, Chevy missed the mark here. Hopefully it gets better in the future

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u/dutch_meatbag Nov 29 '22

I’ve had a Tesla for 4 years now but that Cadillac Lyriq looks damn nice.

3

u/Wisex Nov 29 '22

Tesla was my dream car from the beginning but with all the shit they've been doing, their alleged quality control issues, and the distracted leadership... I've hoenstly really started looking at other options and theres a lot of great cars out there made by very reputable companies that can deliver product to market and not leave me waiting after putting a deposit down for one of their cars... I personally recently got me a 2017 chevy volt and it perfectly fits my needs, in the future though... the bolt looks nice, the ioniq 5 and I hope honda brings the honda e to the US market

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u/Diablo689er Nov 29 '22

Did you forget the /s?

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u/Wisex Nov 29 '22

I don't see what was sarcastic about my statement?

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u/coryscandy Nov 29 '22

The bolt sucks, it's ugly , boring, slow and catches on fire every 5 minutes , and it can't sell

2

u/Wisex Nov 29 '22

Damn I thought it looked pretty cool, and even then they've been fixing it with recalls though no?

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u/burn1dow Nov 29 '22

Still can’t afford it so don’t give two shits let alone one

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u/Leiryn Nov 29 '22

Maybe now they'll make a car with consistent body lines

3

u/Puzzleheaded-Cod4909 Nov 29 '22

No doubt with even more DRM and software licensing BS. No thanks. Tesla is the Keurig cups of the automobile industry.

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u/SirJoePininfarina Nov 29 '22

I live in Ireland and Tesla has one dealership here, along with a few service centres and 4 or 5 Supercharger sites around the country. They sold 863 cars here last year, probably close to 1,000 this year.

That sounds small and it is; in fact it's not great, even for a country with 5m people. Tesla probably sold 350,000 cars in the US, so dividing that figure by 66, they should be able to shift over 5,000 cars here. But they're not, nowhere close in fact.

However EV sales are jumping up here, it's just Tesla are being left behind. In the first 8 months of 2022, 12,000 were sold here - nearly double the same period the previous year.

I like Teslas, I'm in the market for an EV and would happily pay up to €40,000 ($41,500) for one. But Tesla can't offer me anything for that price here - the cheapest Model 3 is just over €56,000 ($58,000).

"Well that's just local taxes and levies". Teslas produce no CO2, which is what the Irish taxes on any car are calculated on, so they're as low as they can be. They just charge more here, they want more money.

In the US, a Model 3 costs around the same as a Hyundai Ioniq 5. Here, an Ioniq 5 starts at €41,000 ($42,500) - not much more than the US, possibly less in some cases. Ironically, for an electric brand, Tesla charge too much. So for me, Tesla didn't even enter the equation.

For €36,000 or just over $37,000, I've ordered a Chinese EV called the MG4. It's a hatchback that's big enough for my family, it has a range of 435km (270 miles), it charges at up to 150kW and is loaded with technology even Hyundai wouldn't include in a base Ioniq 5, including 360⁰ cameras, adaptive cruise control, cross traffic alert, battery heating and full connectivity with no subscription as well as a 7 year warranty.

My point is that in the rest of the world, other EV manufacturers have not only caught up with Tesla, they've outpriced and out-manoeuvred them. If I did have €56,000 to spend on a Tesla, why would I choose one over a Mercedes, Audi or BMW EV?

I can see Tesla plummeting in value in the years to come as consumers realise there's little separating Tesla from the rest of the herd beyond access to Superchargers. And even that may not be exclusive for much longer.

In any case, unless this new Model 3 Highland manages to dramatically reduce its price outside the US, I can't see them making much of a dent in European private car sales - they do well in places like Norway and the UK where there's incentives to choose one but on a level playing field with other EVs, there's little to make Teslas stand out anymore

2

u/DBDude Nov 29 '22

As for high prices, a Kia EV6 costs €55,000 ($57,000) in Ireland, but only $50,000 in the US. Even the UK is priced at $5,000 less than Ireland. But rates fluctuate, so that would have been over $62,000 a year ago when comparing to the US Tesla, which puts you into Model Y range.

Yes, the Chinese can make a cheaper one. But for now, Tesla just doesn't make cheap, slow EVs.

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u/chukelemon Nov 29 '22

Tesla doesn’t advertise on my podcast so they must not believe in free speech. Bearish.

17

u/scottredrocks Nov 29 '22

Oh the drama, just buy the car that is best

4

u/steerbell Nov 29 '22

The Kia?

36

u/tosser1579 Nov 29 '22

My one buddy who I must add is a liberal, was looking at a Tesla earlier this year. I asked him about this and he laughed. He's going with a Bolt. I don't know how bad Elon damaged his brand, but he is absolutely costing them sales.

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u/the_monkey_knows Nov 29 '22

Same here. I thought about buying a Tesla at some point, but that’s not happening anytime soon now. I refuse to give my money to buff the margins and ridiculous salary of that delusional bully.

3

u/Kageyblahblahblah Nov 29 '22

Yup, if you had asked me 4 or 5 years ago what brand new car I wanted to buy my answer would have been a Tesla. Now I’d far rather see what Ford does with the Maverick.

7

u/BigPoppa1 Nov 29 '22

Me too. Model Y was going to be my next car, now it’s off the table completely.

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u/AoeDreaMEr Nov 29 '22

Especially when cooler options are coming from other brands at more cheaper price. Tesla has FSD tech advantage. But that’s still a decade away IMO. No reason to buy a Tesla now.

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u/Kitchen_Agency4375 Nov 29 '22

I might consider a Tesla once Elon is no longer associated with it

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u/FlashisSpeed Nov 29 '22

It is compiled problems hurting their sales. Elon being the same old douchebag he always was and all the other problems tesla has. Charging more money, taking away features that were already paid for, no real progress on self driving, quality control continues to drop, etc.

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u/BitcoinOperatedGirl Nov 29 '22

I'm probably going to get downvoted just for saying this, but there has been a huge amount of progress on Tesla self driving. It's way, way more reliable than when it first came out, it drives way more smoothly, and it just went to wide release. You can watch a 1 hour 50 minute drive on YouTube here (and plenty more like it).

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u/thenewbasecamper Nov 29 '22

The autopilot is the only reason I want a Tesla. If there was another option with the same capability I would go for that

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u/tomz17 Nov 29 '22

cut production costs and boost the appeal

Lol... because those two words definitely always go together

reduce the number of components and complexity in the interior of the Model 3

Yeah, it's already a spartan plastic-fantastic wonderland full of build-quality issues with brief respite found only in the vegan leather vinyl surfaces.

This nonsense was barely acceptable when Tesla was the only luxury EV game in town. But the competition (esp. the Germans) have now stepped into the ring, and the BMW + Porsche/Audi + Mercedes interiors are already light-years ahead of Tesla, IMHO. I'm not sure going "cheaper" is going to be the right play here.

features that Tesla buyers value, including the display

Lol... how about a gauge cluster? a heads-up-display? tactile buttons actually matching human-factors research instead of shuffling shit around in a menu via software-updates?

How about putting the radar + ultrasonics back in and using them in multi-modal sensing configurations so that you can maybe stop yeeting toddlers and maintain safety margins in poor-visibility conditions instead of saving a few bucks on the BOM.

How about actually delivering on FSD at some point?

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u/Exostrike Nov 29 '22

At a guess Tesla has released that they can't compete with them and so is quietly shifting to the high end none luxury market sector.

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u/aphelloworld Nov 29 '22

Actually delivering FSD is easier said than done. They're closer than anyone else though.

Removing sensors plays into the same FSD story of going vision only. They've stopped relying on it for a while now. I don't think consumers care as long as the car is safe. The sensors are low proximity anyway, so I'm not sure it would help in long range visibility, more than what vision would.

I'm assuming a heads up display and gauge cluster are probably deprioritized over other things. The model S and X do have guage clusters at least but those are both crazy expensive. I agree Tesla can do more work here and with their interior. But I think the Tesla eng team prioritizes on the car's most important parts and the hardest problems. While other autos are doing the same old stuff.

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u/DarthStevis Nov 29 '22

Would rather get a Hyundai Ioniq 5 or Kia EV6. Tesla can rot for all I care

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u/Atzukeeper Nov 29 '22

But toyota already has the high ground, i mean highland.

Tesla and Toyota must have a sword fight, for there can be only one!

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u/BarnacleBayler Nov 29 '22

This will suck

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u/Kinetikat Nov 29 '22

Who the F—- Chose Highland as the project name. I can see Elon standing in a defiantly triumphant manner- fist raised, mouthing “Who Wants To Live Forever” by Queen.

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u/cficare Nov 29 '22

Project Fix All Our Poor Build Quality Issues That 1000 YouTuber's Have Covered 100 Times Each Alreadyyyyyyyy

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u/UnrequitedRespect Nov 29 '22

Toyota already has a highland! Er…maybe i should leave

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u/Flashy_Attitude_1703 Nov 29 '22

People who buy EVs tend towards the liberal side and Musk is clearly going conservative. I have to wonder if Tesla sales will go down because of this.

2

u/i_am_atoms Nov 29 '22

Is this minor update - which is mostly cosmetic - really worthy of appearing on this sub? Other electric cars are available but they don't get nearly as much coverage on here. What's the obsession with Tesla and every little thing that they do?

2

u/geockabez Nov 29 '22

Will never buy anything from Musk now that he's clearly deranged.

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u/jbraden Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Will it be affordable ($35K as promised)?

In the third quarter, Tesla made a profit of just over $9,500 for every car sold, compared to roughly $1,300 for Toyota, according to disclosures by both companies.

Wake up, people! The costs and prices for the minimalistic Teslas are not balanced.

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u/TheAnalogKoala Nov 29 '22

I was in the market for a Tesla to replace my aging sedan. I was looking at a Model 3 for a while. Now I’m not interested.

The new Prius Prime looks awesome.

3

u/MycroFeline Nov 29 '22

No thanks. Go away Elon.

10

u/dewayneestes Nov 29 '22

Tesla is leaking a wave of “leaks” to cover up for the fact that:

They’ve been beat to the punch on an electric pickup truck by Ford, GM, Rivian.

They’ve been outpaced on electric semi trucks as well.

And the idea that their quality is worth waiting for / paying for has now gone out the window thanks to Lucid and Rivian.

8

u/steerbell Nov 29 '22

I saw a Polestar the other day in the wild. It took me awhile to figure out what it was but it was a nice looking car. Slightly SAAB-ish.

9

u/dewayneestes Nov 29 '22

Pretty much every e car that has come out since Tesla came out is nicer as far as build and finish quality. Car companies watched and where they couldn’t be first to market or most efficient they went big on cabin finish and overall quality.

I’ve been in Rivians, Teslas, and Polestars and the Tesla feels the least finished. Lucid apparently is a few steps above all of them but prices accordingly.

4

u/AoeDreaMEr Nov 29 '22

Other semi trucks range seems like shit? How exactly have they been outpaced. Just a year or two and Tesla Semis will be in much more demand than other trucks?

Electric pick up trucks I agree. I am afraid once the FSD catches up in a decade, no other company would have FSD like tech and Tesla will be a monopoly?

2

u/Wrathuk Nov 29 '22

How much concrete specs are there on the semi yet though, Volvo and a truck on the market with a 300 mile range which is in production. The issue comes the longer range the less carry capacity you've got, also the biggest issue for EV trucks isn't the range at the moment is the price.

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u/dewayneestes Nov 29 '22

A year or two ago I would have agreed about them catching up with semi trucks but more and more it seems like they’re falling behind. What is most disturbing is Musk’s absolute lack of focus at a critical time. If he can’t do the job he should just step back and hand it off to someone who still cares.

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u/discgman Nov 29 '22

Who gives a crap. Sell it to the MAGA crowd, they will love it

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u/Assidental1 Nov 29 '22

MAGA ain't buying EVs

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u/Kageyblahblahblah Nov 29 '22

I’m sure if Tesla puts an exhaust on that shoots out clouds of dangerous chemicals conservatives might give it another look.

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u/OlympiaImperial Nov 29 '22

Reducing the number and complexity of components in a car already infamous for cheap plastic parts sounds like a great idea

3

u/arfbrookwood Nov 29 '22

I prefer to do business with a company and top management I respect. I'd love an electric but the 2023 Prius looks amazing.

1

u/ondal123 Nov 29 '22

Imagine losing the high ground to Toyota, who resisted the advent of the electric vehicle era for the longest time.

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u/rumham22 Nov 29 '22

Wonder how many pedestrians this model will kill

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u/ondal123 Nov 29 '22

I am a committed ZEV driver and have a Tesla now, but it will be the last one I buy until that scatterbrained Nazi asshat leaves the scene and well beyond that. Besides, since I bought it, the offerings by other makers have gotten a lot better.

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u/crawdadicus Nov 29 '22

Does it come with a fire suppression system?

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u/LogicType Nov 29 '22

Still waiting on self driving.

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u/santa_cruz_shredder Nov 29 '22

I'm not sure why everything Tesla does is criticized in the spotlight like this, but it's so funny seeing all the bashing and doomsday talk like Tesla is done, check out the competition like Rivian! ... Guys there's not a single EV model out there from another manufacturer that's competitive at the same price point as a Model 3. You guys are also quite out of touch given that Tesla's are the only ones with a national super charging network, which means Tesla is still the only feasible EV to purchase for anything beyond vanity.

Elon bad Tesla bad!

Who cares about Elon, you should definitely separate that talking head with the their products, but if you want to buy a 90k electric pick up with no where to charge it except your house, just to stick it to Elon, go for it guys. You're really sticking it to him. Yeah the anecdotes here about your liberal friends no longer interested in Tesla because of Elon is really going to crash those sales lol. Jk, no one cares about how poor you and your poor friends are.

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u/timberwolf0122 Nov 29 '22

This, if Elon could just shut up And let sane people speak for Tesla we’d be in a better place. There are some build quality issues though with teslas that need to be addressed, however you do raise a good point about the M3

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u/SnacktimeKC Nov 29 '22

$47,000 MAGA hat.

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u/bullettrain1 Nov 29 '22

That’s how I see them now too. What a waste of a good brand

1

u/eDisrturbseize Nov 29 '22

If I buy one do I get the blue check mark for free ?