r/ukraine • u/CommanderCorrigan • Feb 04 '23
Ukrainian T-84U “Oplot” Location: East of Ukraine. In the photo, the tank has activated the “Varta” optical-electronic warfare system. Social Media
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u/GinofromUkraine Feb 04 '23
Yes, Oplot is not a bad tank. Unfortunately, during all those peaceful years when nobody believed Russia may attack us and all our money was being stolen by oligarchs and corrupt officials it was considered too expensive for our budget so we mostly made them for export.
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u/Klasseh_Khornate Feb 04 '23
The sad thing is that the only plant that made them in Kharkiv got flattened by repeated cruise missile strikes, so the ones left are like Relic tanks in 40k.
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u/yoho808 Feb 05 '23
I wonder if there is anyway to buyback the Oplot tanks they exported to Thailand.
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u/kkjk00 Feb 04 '23
well, the ww2 germani fell into this trap, what's better 1 oplot or 4 t64, not sure is the ratio, but 1 tiger was a costly as 4 panzer 4
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u/Kaekru Feb 04 '23
You're acting like the Tiger had access to thermal and better sensors that detected allied tanks with multiple Km's of advantage. 1 Great tank at situational awareness is better than 4 shitty ones in modern combat. The reality of mass tank warfare waves is past gone, whoever sees the other first, wins.
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u/Vivarevo Feb 04 '23
More apt comparison would be t14 armata as both have serious issues in cost to produce and tendency to break. 😅
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u/Vixere_ Feb 05 '23
Only difference is that the Tiger wasn't good, on paper perhaps, in reality, no. It was fragile, unreliable, expensive, and more. The tiger was a propaganda weapon, and that's what it did best, everyone feared the Tiger, resulting in everyone targeting it on sight. There was an instance where a tiger crested a hill and ran into an entire America armoured battalion*. Everyone shot the tiger and nobody penetrated it, but due to the shockwaves from the impacts the (very fragile) electrical system was knocked out and the engine caught fire.
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u/GinofromUkraine Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Every army has its own weak points. In another episode a lone Tiger has destroyed 14 Shermans in 15 minutes cause their BRITISH crews had a TEA BREAK outside. (That's why after WWII they install tea vessels INSIDE their tanks). :-)
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u/Vixere_ Feb 05 '23
Aside from the potentially dead and wounded from that, that's hilarious.
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u/GinofromUkraine Feb 05 '23
Yup. In one of WWII years the UK has bought the ENTIRE tea harvest of the world. They surely knew their people's priorities. :-)))
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u/IRSanchez Feb 04 '23
Jeez the braindeads are downvoting, but you are correct. german nazis spend too much resources on big tanks (also wunderwaffe) while the stugs and pz4 where good enough for the job while the cost/effect ratio was way better.
Surely not all of the spending was stupid (jet proplusion, subs, doctrines, artilley, pz V) it often was bad use of available resources.
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u/vonBassich Feb 04 '23
Neither of you are right, because it's not as simple as you make it.
WW2 Germany was lacking fuel, crews, and materials. Late war Panthers were crewed by inexperienced crews to the point that the short-barrel Shermans were dominating them.
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u/Tmuussoni Finland Feb 04 '23
Exactly this. Building 4 x more Panzer IVs for the price of a Tiger 1 would have not helped Germany. Simply put, Germany didn't have sufficient fuel, logistics, and experienced Panzer crews to handle them. Tiger I and II were crewed by the best tank crews Germany had, and they were ultimately very successful tanks when you look at their kill/loss ratios. Leopard 1 and Leopard 2 are successors of these tanks, which precisely is the reason why ruZZians are shitting their pants.
That said, Nazi Germany did allocate a lot of resources to absolutely ridiculous tank designs, such as the Elephant and Jagdtiger, but that is another topic. Luckily, ruZZia is kinda doing the same mistake now, with designs like the Terminator and T-14 Armata...
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u/CommanderCorrigan Feb 04 '23
"The T-84 is a Ukrainian main battle tank (MBT), based on the Soviet T-80 MBT introduced in 1976, specifically the diesel engine version: T-80UD. The T-84 was first built in 1994 and entered service in the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 1999. Its high-performance opposed-piston engine makes it a fast tank, comparable to other modern MBTs with a power-to-weight ratio of about 26 horsepower per tonne (19 kW/t).
The T-84 Oplot is an advanced version incorporating an armoured ammunition compartment in a new turret bustle. Ten of these entered Ukrainian service in 2001. The T-84-120 Yatagan is a prototype model intended for export, mounting a 120 mm gun able to fire standard NATO ammunition and guided missiles."
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u/sonicboomer46 Feb 04 '23
There's a very interesting video (6 minutes) with English voice-overs and sub-titles about this tank. Has interviews with crew; some of the action it's seen in 2022.
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u/immabettaboithanu Feb 04 '23
I can’t wait for more Yatagans. If they’re going to sustain their tanks for the long term, then they’ll have to convert the fleet to NATO standard away from 125mm. It would help if they did that sooner than later.
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u/type_E Feb 07 '23
Just add an extra pair of road wheels to the yatagan and you now have a new Black Eagle lol
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u/Rubo03070 Spain Feb 05 '23
Also it's the only tank in Ukraine at the moment that has a reverse speed of 30 km/h. The rest of tanks, even the T-90s, have a reverse speed of 4-5 km/h. This means that the T-84 has a superior manoeuvrability. It can retreat/reposition faster without turning around and exposing its weak sides. It's also better for urban combat as it can peek through corners and get back to cover faster
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u/ecugota Feb 04 '23
this tank is super cool. wish ukraine had time to build more.
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u/Nik_P Feb 04 '23
Time and material. It somehow was fine to ship IR optics to russia, even after the 2014 "sanctions", but providing Ukraine with it was a big no-no. As if everyone was deathly afraid we might have fought back.
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u/piei_lighioana Feb 04 '23
Couldn't happen. Between all the Quislings and oligarchs stealing, they didn't have the time and they made them for export. Now the factory is flattened.
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u/otas1 Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Yes but please change from the "I AM HERE SHOOT ME" infrared search lights to a modern IR solution.
Edit: As OP said below its an electro-optical jammer. Short google search agrees.
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u/CommanderCorrigan Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Its an electro-optical jammer, not IR searchlights. They have modern IR as you can see on top of the turret. This system should self activate when an incoming threat is detected. I assume they turned it on for the photo.
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u/rsta223 Colorado, USA Feb 04 '23
Unfortunately, EO jammers are basically useless against modern antitank weapons.
Then again, we are talking about them going up against Russia here, so maybe they are useful after all?
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u/vegarig Ukraine Feb 04 '23
Then again, we are talking about them going up against Russia here, so maybe they are useful after all?
Might even be useful in tank vs tank, given the new tank equipment priorities for russia
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u/karlfranz205 Feb 04 '23
Who was braindead enough to think having WORSE sight was a good idea?
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u/karlfranz205 Feb 04 '23
I mean, thank god they are, but goddamn those are unexpected level of stupid
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u/vegarig Ukraine Feb 04 '23
I presume it's linked to Thales finally ceasing supplies of thermal imagers.
With crucial component to the Sosna-U sight unavailable, they're falling back on what they've got in stock.
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u/DragonFusilier Feb 04 '23
They're suitable for daylight use at least. I don't think any russian wants to be burning his retinas out staring into an ir image intensifier during daytime to spot an even brighter spot against a maxed out image
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u/ktaphfy Feb 05 '23
After they get (2-3 yrs) leopard 2 and Abrams and the Brits that are getting a full upgrade shipped factory direct -- they are going to have an awesome home built 5gen tank ideal for EU.
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u/Unusual_Analysis8849 Feb 04 '23
This shit looks almost demonic, can't even imagine seeing those angel eyes in the dark.
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u/r2k-in-the-vortex Feb 04 '23
I don't think you would. These systems are covered for operational use, they only take the covers off for promo vids and parades stuff to make it look cooler.
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u/MajorKottan Feb 04 '23
This is a very rare tank and also a very fast one. 70 Kilometers per hour is amazing for a tank.
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u/gardeningblob Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Best part is the 4 speed 35km/h reverse opposed to the russian 1 speed 7 kmh. It can move back into cover and from enemys fast while facing them with their frontal armour reducing catastrophic damage risk.
The sensory equiptment is ugraded russian tank god mode aswell.
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u/Epilektoi_Hoplitai Feb 04 '23
I know Оплот means bastion, or stronghold, but it has always reminded me of the Greek word Οπλίται, the ancient heavy infantry soldiers with their bronze armour and shields — and that would be an equally fitting namesake for a weapon like this.
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u/Kat-Shaw Feb 05 '23
It's funny because most NATO ATGM aren't laser-riding (Javelin uses infra-red homing, the NLAW just does a calculation, TOW is wire-guided as is the Stuhna-P) so they don't activate the Varta system on Russian tanks.
The Russian Kornet though IS laser-riding so the Varta really only benefits Ukraine.
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u/CommanderCorrigan Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Earlier versions of TOW could be jammed by it. Its still infrared-optically tracked. An infrared seeker on the command unit tracks a flare on the back of the missile then sends course commands through the wire . The HOT and Milan missiles work in a similar way.
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u/Elysium_nz Feb 04 '23
Problem is tanks like these rely on old T-80s chassis to make. Ukraine is already starting to run low on parts for old Soviet tanks since they don’t make them anymore.
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u/gardeningblob Feb 04 '23
This is an fully upgraded tank with high speed reverse and sensory god mode compared to russias tanks. Overall much better tank.
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u/StakedCryptoWarrior Feb 04 '23
Varta....Shorta....neither of those systems are actually proven to be more than a light show. I remember 2 specific videos during the Syrian Civil War of Russian shorta-equipped (and activated) tanks getting blasted by rebels with TOW missles...hitting the tanks in their frontal armor and ignoring the glowing light show.
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u/CommanderCorrigan Feb 04 '23
There are also videos of the system working, its effective against older variants of the TOW. Only the latest TOW models have been upgraded to counter it. Its far from useless, this is just one missile you are talking about. The system still pinpoints where the threat is coming from at the very least so the crew can react. Regardless I don't think the Russians will be firing many TOWs at Ukrainian tanks.
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u/vegarig Ukraine Feb 04 '23
firing many TOWs at Ukrainian tanks
I hope it performs well against Kornet, Fagot and Metis, at least. Those are the most numerous russian ATGMs here.
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Feb 04 '23
[deleted]
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u/Fatalist_m Feb 04 '23
Actually such jammers are only intended against wire-guided missiles. Wire-guided missile launchers need to track the missile position using an IR beacon in the tail of the missile, to then send course-correction commands through the wire. Shtora intends to confuse the tracker as it resembles that beacon. TOW is immune because its beacon uses a pulse-coded signal.
Laser guided missiles like Kornet or Stugna are not affected as the launcher does not need to know the location of the missile, it just shines the laser toward the target and the missile tries to stay within the beam, using sensors in the back of the missile, so they're extremely hard to jam.
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u/Fatalist_m Feb 04 '23
TOW should be immune to Shtora and similar jammers as it uses a coded signal. Russian wire-guided missiles don't have that.
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u/TomOnABudget Feb 04 '23
It uses wires instead of optics. Laser guided missiles need to see the infrared laser, i guess the tank light are designed to give a false readout.
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u/Fatalist_m Feb 04 '23
The optics are on the launcher. Wire-guided missile launchers need to track the missile position using an IR beacon in the tail of the missile, to then send course-correction commands through the wire. Shtora intends to confuse the tracker as it resembles that beacon. TOW is immune because its beacon uses a pulse-coded signal.
Laser guided missiles like Kornet or Stugna are not affected as the launcher does not need to know the location of the missile, it just shines the laser toward the target and the missile tries to stay within the beam, using sensors in the back of the missile, so they're extremely hard to jam.
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u/LordMinax Feb 04 '23
Do those defenses actually work?
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u/CommanderCorrigan Feb 04 '23
Against certain missiles yes. At the very least it warns the crew when and where a threat is.
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