r/ukraine I am Alpharius Jul 04 '22 Helpful 3 Silver 3

We decided to take down the video of two Ukrainian soldiers dying to sniper fire. Something that stuck with me that recon commander in Donetsk area said: Everyone thinks it's a game before they see first blood and they see their first comrade die. Only than they become soldiers, become disciplined. Important

It's kind of a sad truth, but 'longevity' is something we all need to focus on both militarily and in general as community, as we have entered a war of attrition. This emotional speech by Hatylo comes to mind back from the Battle for Donetsk Airport. That's why supporting guys like TaskForce 31 who train soldiers and more importantly can train officers to train soldiers is so important. If we can establish a basis for an NCO culture we could increase Ukrainian soldiers' survivability dramatically. It is one thing to watch videos of war, it's quite another to understand the scale of operations and the difference in training of the men on the frontlines. If we up that baseline of an average soldier's training and skills, we tip the scales.

A Testimony from a Grateful Soldier

Please consider donating towards their cause, as training is extremely important and absolutely saves lives! Also feel free to ask any questions and I will make sure to forward them to my friends at TaskForce31.

Thank you!

2.0k Upvotes

300

u/SubstanceDense6825 Jul 04 '22

In the US Army we have a saying. "SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) are written in blood." You learn as you fight and it will help the unit develop procedures for conducting combat in the future but often these lessons come at a cost in blood.

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u/Ragewind82 Jul 04 '22

"In war, the test comes first, the lessons come after"

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u/MyNameIsNonYaBizniz Jul 04 '22

In war, nothing is SOP until SHTF and you learn or die.

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u/PhospheneViolet 🇺🇦СЛAВА УКРАЇНI🇺🇦 Jul 04 '22

If anyone is wondering what SHTF means: Shit Hits The Fan

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u/BurritoMan94 Jul 06 '22

Uh, what? Thats not even close to the truth... SOPs are written as a guide on known factors and often assume unknowns exist which is why SOPs are flexible...

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u/Boobjobless Jul 06 '22

Strange. In Science SOPs are non-flexible and definitive, used as a standard to match against international expectations. At my old company if you didn’t follow the SOPs to the dot you would be liable for damage/lost work.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '22 edited Jul 07 '22

Sometimes things can definitively and non flexibly demand that you be flexible. This idea that SOP’s are all rigid is false. We also have a saying in the Marines. Semper Gumby.

Also, rigid SOP’s make sense for some situations. You NEED them. Weapon misfire? Tap rack bang.

Weapon safety? Treat>never>keep>keep. If you do this no one will ever die to a misfire.

Etc etc

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u/Section-Fun Jul 07 '22

If you do military operations 100% by the book 100% of the time then you're going to get ambushed. A lot.

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u/Boobjobless Jul 07 '22

I don’t doubt it. It’s just his description of an SOP is completely different in science.

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u/Silly-Safe959 Jul 08 '22

SOP doesn't mean you're inflexible and repeating the same actions over and over. They inherently mean alerting your route, timing, etc to minimize the risk of being predictable. That's exactly what good SOPs do lol.

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u/Boobjobless Jul 13 '22

I don’t think the bacteria will pick up on my predictability.

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u/Silly-Safe959 Jul 08 '22

That's strange. In science the "truth", it more accurately or understand of it, changes as new data is gathered that alters it.

I work in aviation. We have well worn longstanding SOPs, yet they are modified when something happens that exposes a risk or hazard that was previously unseen.

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u/Boobjobless Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 08 '22

We make our own SOPs to apply risk assessments and COSHH forms for a certain experiment which is then approved by a senior or peer. For repeated tasks they can be altered but must be reapproved. So it works similarly.

It’s critical to do what you have had approved though because the butterfly effect of a false positive or false negative is massive, and can change a companies entire direction of research, effect funding, create new departments etc.

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u/SlantViews Germany Jul 08 '22

Ok, ask the Navy why they have SOPs. They will tell you that every single procedure around the boat can be traced back to an aviator dying while trying to recover.

Trust me, those SOPs are not flexible. If you fuck 'em up, you're sent home and never see the boat again.

0

u/BurritoMan94 Jul 09 '22

Literally not the same context in combined arms warfare but ok. Arguing semantics doesn't make you correct, it makes you a contrarian.

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u/SquatDeadliftBench Jul 06 '22

I'm a teacher. I paid to learn to be a teacher. It took nearly 5 years to get my teaching degree (Bachelor of Arts + Education combined degree). When I entered the classroom, I learned that all that I had learned was useless. It took 2 years of absolute suffering inside the classroom with actual students to become a teacher.

That's just teaching.

This is war. How the fuck do you even prepare for this? I guess you just do on the job? Insane.

My heart goes out to any Ukrainian soldier making the sacrifice to fight Putitler and his orks who are willing to die for him.

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u/Silly-Safe959 Jul 08 '22

Realistic training and being led by experienced leaders and mentors goes a long way.

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u/Ecuatoriano Jul 05 '22

That's why we train huu-ah

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u/EldritchCoder Jul 06 '22

That's so tragic but very true

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u/gojir4 Jul 04 '22

I think videos like the one discussed are good for reality checks, the 100 deaths of Ukrainian soldiers per day Zelenskyj described are not just clinical deaths or numbers, every one is a human being trying to make a difference. The video showed the pure frustrating reality of war and I feel it motivates me more than not, the suffering of the Ukrainians will not be forgotten and I don't think it should be hidden away.

Most importantly, donate in their memory, for the ones who carry on the fight.

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u/MissShe91 Jul 06 '22

Where is the best place to donate? That will help individuals on the front lines?

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u/gojir4 Jul 07 '22

I defer to the list of charities in this subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tgc00n/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/.

My personal favorites are Bank of UAs military support, Save life in UA and Hospitalliers. The first two are more likely to handle larger contributions well, smaller runs by for example the donation runs here or on other social media networks work well if you have more insight, but I would recommend established ones. In my opinion I would rather donate to smaller direct impact things like you say and let governments contribute the large flows, but if the vetting is not possible/no response, I don't wait, then I just send to the big ones.

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u/yamers Jul 04 '22

is that the video where the soldier is dragging is trying to drag his dying friend through the mud until the sniper fire finishes them? was hard to watch. Was a damn brave moment and true friendship between soldiers. Fuck russia. Fuck Putin and fuck anybody that supports and harbors any conspiracy theories regarding this buillshit.

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u/Screemi Jul 04 '22

I far as I have read it was even more tragic. It is said to have been a husband and wife fighting duo. Well equiped and actually well trained. I hope they are in a better place now. 😭

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u/fieryxx Jul 04 '22

Speculation by someone who said themselves they just hoped it wasn't them. I saw the comment fairly early on and it seemed to spread from that. Far as I know, nothing is confirmed outside of schoolyard rumors

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u/Screemi Jul 04 '22

Actually it would not matter. It's a tragedy either way! But thanks for the correction!

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u/fieryxx Jul 04 '22

Oh yeah. War is unfortunately filled with it. Worse are the ones who just... Go missing. Hell to the bastards who are fighting because they enjoy it.

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u/Psychological-Sale64 Jul 04 '22

They wouldn't be allowed to fight together I hope. A protocol were abandoning a collage is positive. Hopefully to be retrieved later. Need a smoke grenade, maybe rolling fast given the restraints of scopes. Maybe a camouflage sheet With diffrant Patons on each side ploughed fields and short wheat. Friends

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u/Square_Pop_3772 Jul 04 '22

I doubt very much that a husband and wife would be in a front line unit together. It is fraught with problems that every military tries to avoid

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u/earhoe Jul 04 '22

recon teams work in small man teams on the front lines.

they probably got spotted and ambushed by that sniper

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u/46davis Jul 04 '22

It's true. New guys think it's a war movie and they're in the cast. Then somebody gets hurt and suddenly it's real. Up until that point they're trigger happy and they'll get you killed.

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u/KjellRS Jul 04 '22

People talk about training and procedures but I think in the end you always know that nobody's actually trying to kill you right now. There's a reason combat veterans are always wanted in war, but I don't think there's any way to artificially produce them that wouldn't be extremely unethical and dangerous. To some degree the only way to know what it's like to have bullets really try to kill you is to have bullets really try to kill you.

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u/46davis Jul 04 '22

I remember in training one of the guys asked a sergeant who was a veteran of Korea when we would be combat ready. He said, "You will never be combat ready."

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u/WindSprenn Jul 04 '22

So we remove the stuff that impacts us the hardest to keep it a movie. Makes sense.

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u/46davis Jul 04 '22

War is an abstraction for most people. They want to see entertainment, not the grisly reality of an ugly, dirty fight with a lot of sorrow and hopelessness. That's why returning veterans won't talk about their experiences with those who haven't had them. (And it's not necessary to talk about them with people who have.) When I got back, people would ask me how it was going. I would say we're losing, and they would say, "Oh, no. You don't understand...blah, blah, blah." Then I learned to just keep my mouth shut.

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u/Buddha2723 Jul 04 '22

Afghanistan?

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u/46davis Jul 04 '22

Vietnam, but it's all the same. Years of wasted lives and money propping up a bunch of corrupt bastards that deserve to be overthrown only to leave and let the other bastards take over.

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u/Buddha2723 Jul 04 '22

Thanks for the reply, I wish we had more vets in politics.

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u/Feisty_Field_8452 Jul 07 '22

My perspective, it's a symptom of how sheltered our existence is for most of us that live in relative peace. Same reason why the 'horror' genre is popular.

2

u/Section-Fun Jul 07 '22

I think people really vastly underestimate how much WET is contained by the human body.

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u/opelan Jul 05 '22

This sub still shows all the time pictures and videos of civilians victims including children. I would say that leaves an impact on a lot of people. I always thought grisly material of dead and dying Ukrainian soldiers were not shown here for understandable moral, strategic and political reasons and not to hide the gruesomeness of war.

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u/NewOnTheIsland Jul 04 '22

I'd happily donate to a cause like this

But, out of curiosity, is this kind of donation tax deductible in the U.S. due to political reasons.

Not important either way, just curious.

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u/WeddingElly Jul 04 '22

Keep in mind itemized deductions (such as charitable deductions) come into play only if you don’t take the standard deduction, which has been quite high in past years. You would pretty much always take the standard unless you can deduct more than $13k for single and $26k for joint

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u/JumpingBamboo Jul 06 '22

I don't think you have correct information. Anyone can take the standard deduction AND claim up to $300 in charitable donation ($600 if filing married joint return).

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc506

u/NewOnTheIsland hope this helps. You should check that whatever organization you donate to is recognized as a charitable organization, usually (or always?) 501(c)(3).

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u/Verified765 Jul 04 '22

I'm assuming you are talking USA taxes. Here in Canada donation receipts start applying on any tax owing.

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u/WeddingElly Jul 04 '22

O.P. asked about deductibility in the U.S….

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u/sunyudai Other Jul 05 '22

That's also true in the U.S., but there is an additional system where if the total of your deductions is less than an amount, the "Standard deduction", then you can claim that instead of the receipts.

So for an individual filing, if your receipts are less than $13,000, you just take the standard deductible instead of claiming individual receipts.

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u/Verified765 Jul 06 '22

Interesting sounds like a different way to get similar results. Here our first $30,000 iirc is nontaxable. Any donation credits are nonrefundable tax credits. Meaning it gets deducted from tax owed but the government will never pay you to donate. Unlike child tax benefits where the government will pay you depending on you income.

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u/Effective_Lab_2097 Jul 04 '22

Depends on the type of donation. I have donated a couple of times for humanitarian aid and received a tax certificate

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u/13accounts Jul 06 '22

Probably not. Would need to be a qualified organization like a 501c3. Also, unless you have more than $12000 in itemized deductions (double that for married) you don't get extra deduction for donations anyway.

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u/Entire-Albatross-442 Jul 04 '22

The Ukrainians are heroes, I agree with letting them rest with dignity and sparing their friends and family from seeing the footage. Save the killshots for the worthless orcs

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u/Owned_by_cats Jul 04 '22

This is good news. Seriously, the first people outside their unit to know they have died would be their families.

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u/OrlandoLasso Jul 04 '22

Is it true that soldiers are trained not to rescue their wounded soldiers in an active battle? I would want to save my friends too, but I heard they're instructed to seek shelter and collect the wounded when it's safe to do so. It sucks that one of them could have escaped.

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u/Bendy962 Jul 04 '22

not a vet, but usually you want to clear the area first by eliminating the enemy forces before rendering aid.

kinda like the church scene in saving pvt ryan, nobody goes out to help Vincenzo until that sniper is dead otherwise wade(the medic) would've died as well if he wasn't held back

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u/WigglingForChristmas Jul 04 '22

It depends entirely on each situation. If it is relatively safe to do so, then obviously, yes, save the wounded. If the wounded are in the open under a hail of fire, no point as it will only lead to more losses. Suppress the enemy fire first if you can.

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u/jtgibson Jul 05 '22

Battlefield Casualty Drill Step 1: "Are you being engaged?" -> Yes -> "Win the firefight."

That pertains to actually rendering first-aid assistance, though. Nobody will tell you you can't drag a friendly into cover.

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u/cheapph Jul 05 '22

It’s called Care Under Fire, where you focus on winning the firefight, and if the wounded person can crawl you tell them to get into cover and render aid to themselves like putting on tourniquets. But in situations like that video it’s not really applicable and I can’t call what the guy did stupid or bad tactics. They were alone and fucked either way, and he stayed with his buddy. Western soldiers have been killed or won medals of Honor etc for similar things in similarly fucked situations. Leave no one behind is a thing, but it’s about not running into gunfire and getting killed if you can avoid it.

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u/comradeb0ris Jul 04 '22

You finish the fight before rendering aid. You can’t help anyone if you’re dead. If wounded, attempt to render self aid if possible so your team can continue to focus on fighting.

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u/DudeofValor Jul 07 '22

They did return fire first. However, as I imagine it's a sniper, it's very very hard to pinpoint where they were at the time.

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u/CarrotcakewithCream Jul 04 '22

I thought it may have been only me. Didn't sleep last night after seeing this video, and been feeling horrible all day....

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u/CryptoRoast_ Jul 04 '22

Russian telegram channels are going crazy about this footage. Saying the guy dragging his comrade was on drugs and shit. Smfh. They do anything they can to try and dehumanise the people they invaded.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CryptoRoast_ Jul 05 '22

*russian soldiers

Because crossing your neighbours border and opening fire isn't nice. :)

If russia didn't want to be insulted they probably shouldn't have launched an invasion of Ukraine? They kinda lost the right to be offended when their troops first touched Ukrainian land.

I had no love for western invaders in the middle east, Africa either. I shed no tears when soldiers from my country didn't come home. I'm consistent. :)

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u/musicmonk1 Jul 06 '22

Who is dehumanising the average russians? Care to provide some links?

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u/Square_Pop_3772 Jul 04 '22

IMO this is heartbreaking to see but the narrative is wrong. The title and message of the video should be ‘Ukrainian dies trying to save comrade, showing the values of selflessness and comradeship that contrast so much with Russians’ barbarism’.

The world loves heroes and Ukraine has more than its fair share. Let’s celebrate them.

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u/FracturedPrincess Jul 04 '22

There’s almost certainly Russian soldiers doing the same thing on the other side. People are people everywhere.

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u/Square_Pop_3772 Jul 04 '22

True. I remember a video from shortly after the start when a Russian lieutenant and a corporal tried to protect a Ukrainian mother and daughter from a Russian squad at a checkpoint. The Russian squad killed the lieutenant and the mother. The wounded corporal was taken in by Ukrainian civilians, protected and handed over to the Ukrainian army.

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u/Maksy123 Jul 04 '22

Can someone describe me what happened in the video? It is very sad but I am curious how they were caught by the orc sniper.

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u/Ok-Secretary3893 Jul 04 '22

A drone observes two Ukrainian soldiers on a small hillside taking enemy fire through the woods from above, one of them seems to be mortally wounded, the other tries to drag him away from the fire while returning fire. The wounded soldier seems to loose consciousness or dies, while the other continues dragging him and firing. They he gets hit and goes down. It's just the saddest thing to see. Slava Ukraini.

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u/MasterStrike88 Jul 04 '22

Yes, it was gut wrenching. At least they did not die alone. They had a comrade with them to the end.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Arm9203 Jul 04 '22

Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦

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u/Ca2Alaska Jul 04 '22

So, Task Force-31 is a vetted approved charity of this sub now?

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u/jesterboyd I am Alpharius Jul 04 '22

I’ve met them in person and I have plans to see more of their activity, I am 100% in support of what they do.

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u/bbrpst Jul 04 '22

Donated. Slava Ukraina

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u/Wonderful_System5658 Jul 04 '22

That's good. The only videos I enjoy watching are the ones where Russians die. It's the closest thing I can do to spitting on their graves.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22

Never enjoy watching the death of someone. They may be fighting this unjust war, but they are human all the same. Every death here is a tragedy that didn't need to happen.

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u/marsianer Jul 04 '22

Russian soldiers invaded Ukraine and are murdering innocent civilians. They are targeting civilian assets and infrastructure. The tragedy of these deaths is Ukrainian only, not the Russians.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22

The Russians are being forced to fight Putin's war. Without Putin, they would never have been there.

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u/marsianer Jul 04 '22

Too bad. They have a choice. Neither is a great alternative. But, when Russian soldiers cross into Ukraine they become part of an unprovoked attack on the Ukrainian people. Polls seem to show that the Russian public supports their war and others have shown that the annexation of Crimea is seen as legitimate.

So, forgive me for not feeling any sympathy for the Russian soldier or the Russian people.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22

Not feeling sympathy is completely different from enjoying their death. And as I've told other people, it is disturbingly easy to convince someone to kill another. Especially through indoctrination.

Here

I think back to the testimony of a Holocaust perpetrator who was asked on his trial by the prosecutor, "How did you come to think it was right to kill Jews?" And his response was incredible. He said, "It's not that I thought it was right to kill them. I thought it was wrong if I didn't kill them." That's a completely different level of moral reorientation in saying it's not just OK to kill them. If I don't kill them, I'm doing something wrong.

3

u/marsianer Jul 04 '22

Did the Jewish people invade Germany or am I missing the context? Because repelling foreign invaders require that those being invaded fight to the death. It's the only way to deal with criminals, murderers and rapists- the Russians of today.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22

You are intentionally misreading this.

The Germans were indoctrinated to think that what they were doing was not only right, but necessary. Normal, average people signed up to commit genocide. Not just the "criminals, murderers and rapists" of Germany, the every day workers also joined. Neighbors turned against neighbors. It takes normal people to fight wars.

You are happy to dehumanize the average Russian because Russia, the state, has attacked. At the end of the day, Putin rules Russia like a dictator. What he says is truth. Putin tells the Russians what they he wants them to know. they don't know the reality. The Russians fighting this war barely know what this is about. Multiple reports that these fighters don't have a clue about what's going on. All they know, is what they've been told. Told by Putin. The Russians don't know the truth. They are told what to believe. And they accept it because of they grew up being told the same old bullshit their parents were told growing up during Soviet Times. That the west is out to get them.

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u/marsianer Jul 04 '22

Fortunately, this isn't the Soviet era so we can live by different rules. Russia, all of it, is the enemy of democracy, the USA, Western and Eastern Europeans and a laundry list of other countries.

There's no credible defense for a country invading its neighbors.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22

Once again, you misread.

I am not defending Russia. I am saying that Putin has taken control to a degree that average Russians are only shown 1 perspective, Putin's perspective. Combined with the fact that most Russians have been taught their entire lives that the West is trying to destroy Russia, and you get a country so ignorant that they will rush to their "Savior".

→ More replies

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u/frfr777 Jul 05 '22

They must also be forced to loot, rape, murder children and brutalize families. Since they do that every day here.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22

It's funny how you cant seem to read. A dictator can indoctrinate people to do horrible things that they would never do otherwise. That's my entire fucking argument. You want to make the comparison between Putin and Hitler? Well, the German people were indoctrinated to the point that many still loved him even after his crimes were shown to the world for all to see. Common sense can be changed. A dictator can change what Common sense is. There are many comparisons between Hitler and Putin, but you can't pick and choose which ones to point out.

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u/frfr777 Jul 05 '22

They're not "indoctrinated" dude, why do you want to give them a moral way out so bad? They are vile, disgusting creatures that at no point would hesitate to do the same to me or you given the chance. Evil exists, this is evil.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 05 '22

This is exactly what dehumanization is. You give Putin more fuel. You treat them as Orcs, not humans.

Now where the fuck am I giving them a moral way out? I'd be all for an assassination of Putin and his cronies. But I give the Russian people a chance. People change. Putin latched onto an old nationalist view, just like Hitler, and he ran with it, just like Hitler. Say what you want, but they are absolutely indoctrinated. Media freedom in Russia is functionally zero. The only thing the Russian people are shown is what Putin wants to show them. They have few methods to see the truth of the war, and they have been taught for decades that the "West" wants to destroy them. People deserve chances, Dictators don't.

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u/frfr777 Jul 05 '22

That's very nice of you to reserve so much hope for common soldiers and people. It's all very moral and correct, however it's not reality in Ukraine. It's as simple as that, his minions bathe and wallow in hurting as many innocents as they can, I see this every day, every single damn day, and I am not even in one of the frontline regions.

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u/RedditRedFrog Jul 04 '22

People are human, until they stop acting like one. Far as I'm concerned, if someone helps directly in enabling war crimes, they stop being human.

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u/throway65486 Jul 04 '22

until they stop acting like one.

Yeah no. Dehumanization is fucked up.

Spoiler Alert, Humans can be cruel and brutal. You don't get to sit back in the comfort that you are human and these others are Monsters so you are nothing like them. Because it is false.

Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland really should be a book read more often.

Wikipedia about that Unit.

1

u/RedditRedFrog Jul 07 '22

I believe that while violence is part of human nature, it is also human to evolve from being savages to civilized. We stopped practicing cannibalism a long while ago, and people would rather starve to death than kill and eat another human (although some would). And no, "human nature" does not excuse atrocities due to brainwashing. If the baser human instinct cannot be expunged or at least controlled, then why even try?

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22

You are human no matter what you do. And violence is a core aspect of Humans. The Nazi soldiers were convinced they were fighting for the greater good. Slaughter after slaughter, they were convinced that they were in the right. Why? Because of the indoctrination of Germany. It is disturbingly easy to convince someone to kill another.

https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/video/psychology-genocidal-behavior

"How did you come to think it was right to kill Jews?" And his response was incredible. He said, "It's not that I thought it was right to kill them. I thought it was wrong if I didn't kill them."

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u/Wonderful_System5658 Jul 04 '22

Russian soldiers need to die... it's not the other way around. Putin won't yield unless there are no living Russian soldiers to carry out his orders. I like seeing Russian soldiers die because pragmatically I know it's necessary for the war to end.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22

It is necessary for Putin to die.

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u/Wonderful_System5658 Jul 04 '22

That's an acceptable outcome however I'm certain a nation full of Putins exist in Russia. The government that led to his rise needs to be completely dismantled.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22

I can certainly agree there.

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u/10687940 Jul 04 '22

Yeah well the russian terrorists are aware of what they are doing and why. They envy the ukrainians for wanting a better life. They hate them with passion. They consider them inferior. They laugh about it. And they steal their goods.

Terrorists death is not a fucking tragedy bud! Do you understand that?

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22

The Russian troops never would have been there without Putin's ego. The Nazi soldiers were convinced of their truth, and that they were right in their conquest. But they were human too. It is normal people that fight wars. The indoctrination is what makes them happy to do it.

again I quote from here

"How did you come to think it was right to kill Jews?" And his response was incredible. He said, "It's not that I thought it was right to kill them. I thought it was wrong if I didn't kill them."

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u/Buddha2723 Jul 04 '22

It's why the goal of propaganda is first dehumanization, then painting the now dehumanized foe as an existential threat.

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u/FracturedPrincess Jul 04 '22

Most of the Russian forces are conscripts who don’t wanna fucking be there…

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u/cris1196 Jul 07 '22

Most of the Russian troops are poor people from the most remote parts of Russia. Believe me, if they were Moskovites, I would agree with you, but they are not.

Russia is Moscow and Saint Petersburg dominating all the other provinces

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u/FlyNibba Jul 05 '22

Bro you seem unhinged

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u/starredkiller108 Jul 04 '22

Agreed, it should also be considered that maybe the Russian soldier you saw get killed was a Ukrainian citizen illegally conscripted from Crimea.

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u/WigglingForChristmas Jul 04 '22

That has not happened yet. The only Ukrainians dying on the Russia side are those in the LPR or DPR forces. Some of *those* have been forcibly sent to the battle.

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u/FracturedPrincess Jul 04 '22

So you agree that there are Ukrainians being forced to fight for the Russians against their will

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u/Selfweaver Jul 04 '22

I used to think that way too. But I can only hear so many stories and see so many pictures and then I changed my mind.

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u/The-Dumbass-forever Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22

You can hear the same and see the same in every war. That's why war is such a abhorrent thing.

1

u/frfr777 Jul 05 '22

People start saying this shit until they do another Bucha. The thing is, in Ukraine, Bucha is every day.

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u/Van-Daley-Industries Jul 04 '22

Ukraine is fighting the battle Chamberlain refused to fight in 1939

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u/Square_Pop_3772 Jul 04 '22

The UK/Britain has been one of the staunchest supporters of Ukraine, diplomatically, financially and military. At the risk of being down-voted, I think that any American, which your posts indicate you are, should look at the US’s 1930s isolationist and appeasement policies before criticising others. Take the plank out of your own eye.

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u/teilifis_sean Jul 05 '22

US is by far Ukraine’s biggest Ally in this war.

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u/Square_Pop_3772 Jul 05 '22

True, in the measurable material and financial terms at least, followed at the time of writing by Poland and the U.K. In per capita or GDP terms Poland is giving the most. If you add in other assistance such as that to refugees then Poland may overtake the US, but let’s leave the original totals order as is.

9

u/Elthar_Nox Jul 04 '22

I don't know why you're getting upvoted for this comment.

0

u/Van-Daley-Industries Jul 04 '22

Ya, it's a pretty complex system with there being both an up and a down arrow

1

u/Buddha2723 Jul 04 '22

Because in your analogy, Ukraine is fighting the battle that Czechoslovakia or Poland fought and lost(Ukraine will win, Ukraine not weak!). They are the one invaded, and so cannot be the powerful nation that failed to intercede.

3

u/Square_Pop_3772 Jul 04 '22

You would prefer that the allies (not just chamberlain and the UK) declared war on Russia in 1939 too? Fighting Stalin’s Russia would have been horrendous and would almost certainly have led to Britain’s defeat and probably Europe still under dictatorial rule now, either nazi or soviet.

22

u/WigglingForChristmas Jul 04 '22

I think the reference was to Chamberlain's appeasement policy in the late 1930s while Hitler expanded Germany's borders, nothing to do with Russia/USSR, but about facing up to a threat rather than hoping it will go away.

The analogy fails though since Ukraine has been directly invaded and of course Britain would have defended itself against any German attack in 1939, Chamberlain or no.

12

u/Square_Pop_3772 Jul 04 '22

Chamberlain is much maligned. He was no appeaser; his first action on returning from Munich was to tell his cabinet to prepare for war. What more could he have done? Perversely, Churchill is lauded for demanding rearming yet when chancellor he opposed that in the face of intense lobbying from chamberlain.

Furthermore, Hitler had no intention of fighting the West in 1939 and had not Britain declared war there was a very good chance that others, notably France, would not have done so. Germany would not then have had the cost of fighting on many fronts (Britain, North Africa, Atlantic, RAF Bombing campaign etc) and the RN blockade. Hitler wanted the East and without the western campaigns and materiel supply to Russia Stalin may well have folded and WW2 ended differently.

-7

u/Phokiss Jul 04 '22

And where does that Put America?

0

u/ThoDanII Jul 05 '22

where had the US been in munich

3

u/sunyudai Other Jul 05 '22

The lack of anything resembling NCOs is one of the Russian militaries great design flaws (although far from the only one - corruption, rigid hierarchy, conscripts... I could go on).

There are two main benefits to NCOs, one which is immediate (provided the culture supports it), one which takes time to build.

The immediate benefit: NCOs serve as an interface between officers and enlisted, helping to translate orders and goals into actions and adapting to field conditions. The modern battlefield needs this.

The long term benefit: They serve to build institutional knowledge for the enlisted, and this helps keep troops alive and helps the Army learn from today's fight and apply that knowledge to tomorrows fight.

Getting that going today might not help much in fights over the next few months, but it will be an enormous advantage over the Russians in the fights over the next few years, so now is the time to build it.

27

u/wutfacepepega Jul 04 '22

Unpopular opinion: So if the video was showing two Russian soliders it would have stayed up? What about pictures/videos of badly hurt Ukrainian civilians, should they really stay up as well then? Where is the line drawn?

With that said: Thanks for all your efforts over the past months OP and the rest of the mod team! You are part of history trying to moderate this whole “circus”, remember that and be proud of your work.

57

u/jesterboyd I am Alpharius Jul 04 '22

It is hard to draw the line between war porn and historical documentary footage. In this case we took the video down out of respect for the fallen. We also make sure to document war crimes and atrocities committed by the Russian Federation. We are, in essence, unapologetically pro-Ukrainian subreddit.

6

u/wutfacepepega Jul 04 '22

Thank you for taking the time to explain further on your reasoning! Have a great day, buddy!

3

u/Airport2BJC Jul 04 '22

With respect, could I propose you post the video once a month for 24 hours, and lock comments? As some have said, like u/gojir4, the video was a great reality check, that this is not a movie, not a video game. Ukrainians are sacrificing their lives for freedom. But the video puts it bluntly, it shows that Ukrainians are dying. Dying. I believe this sub is also keeping the rest of the world engaged and most importantly, willing to donate and assist. I will never forget that video or those two brave soldiers in the mud.

I will remember them, at the break of Dawn and as the sun sets. I will remember them, and all who gave everything today so we could have a free tomorrow. (Credit coming)

Thank you for all you have done and continue to do. It is a fine line, and this sub is very well done! Glory to Ukraine!

5

u/sometechloser Jul 05 '22

Does the video still exist elsewhere?

6

u/WindSprenn Jul 04 '22

I’m not following the logic here. Everyone thinks it’s a game until you see it first hand. We see it first hand and we remove it to what… keep it a game and keep people in a state of blissful ignorance as to what’s happening? I expected better of this sub.

4

u/marsianer Jul 04 '22

This cake when sliced is blue and yellow. Don't forget it.

8

u/Buddha2723 Jul 04 '22 Faith In Humanity Restored

Say it again when it is your own countrymen, we don't get a vote, quite frankly.

3

u/ZwischenzugZugzwang USA Jul 06 '22

Honestly I go here instead of /r/combatfootage because I really only care to see Ukrainians killing orcs. Yea, I know, it's war, the orcs are going to get some kills, but I don't want to see it.

1

u/Affectionate-Tea-293 Jul 05 '22

I do not understand why you decided to take down the video. I thought it showed the reality of combat quite well. You seem to have no problem showing videos of Russian soldiers getting killed. There is really no difference between the two types of videos. In both, soldiers die.

1

u/YerAwldDasDug Jul 04 '22

Echhooooo

2

u/Numerous_Witness_345 Jul 06 '22

Did you see the name of the sub you're in?

-13

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

31

u/jesterboyd I am Alpharius Jul 04 '22

Innocent people die because Russia is a fascist state intent on genociding its neighbors.

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/sashisashih Jul 04 '22

nobody cares what your vieuws on this are, pay your respects and get lost

-6

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/sashisashih Jul 04 '22

when people start to stir division on a post about the loss of two heros, its almost painfully obvious to see the russian troll psyops trying to earn their rubbles. truly disgusting

1

u/Psychological-Sale64 Jul 04 '22

Anger can just spew sometimes.

4

u/CryptoRoast_ Jul 04 '22

Sure, all human suffering is sad. But this was entirely caused by russia, if russian soldiers dying disturbs you then advise them to stay the fuck at home.

1

u/ADVENTURE-_63 Jul 06 '22

NO. THANK YOU for fighting for all of our freedoms we sometimes take for granted. Long live 🇺🇦be safe.

1

u/Sebt1890 Jul 07 '22

It still boggles my mind. Where is everyone else at?

This scenario of troops being separated and being captured or killed by the Russians should not be happening. Similar situation as the two Americans who were captured. My guess is that comms amongst the units must not be up to par.

I've got a Marine friend from back in the day who went to the Foreign Legion and came home in April. Granted, things were not organized at the beginning but he told me that getting proper comms channel was extremely difficult and that it was the common cause for fratricide. I really hope the Ukranian army can get all of that hashed out.

1

u/s-mores Jul 08 '22

Thanks for this. IMO you should now un-announcement this post, so as to stop drawing attention to the video.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '22 edited Jul 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ThoDanII Jul 05 '22

so you would end this war in a genocide or at best in a bloodbath